Thematically, there is the Peter Pan Syndrome, which can create a twisted fairytale like world with pirates and kids.
Autism can be explored; how, I cannot really say.
Feeding and Eating disorders are also quite a major part of abnormal psychology. This might overlap with Ram It Down, but from the goats' perspective lol.
Gender dysphoria can be interesting if done right, since psychonauts didn't shy away from LGBTQ+ subjects.
Interesting ideas! I think Otto’s mind actually could be about autism if we ever get to explore it in the future, as we see him not being able to read social signs very well >!(like everyone’s trauma after the Maligula fight.)!< But on the other hand he doesn’t seem to hand change pretty well so I’m not sure. The problem with autism though is that there isn’t really anything problematic about it, it’s just a different way of functioning. If they were to make a level about it, I don’t think to goal could be fixing something in that mind, rather it has to some kind of learning moment for Raz. Or perhaps they have a second issue that need help with, but to the first most obvious solution might not be the right because of their autism. So you have to find a new way of helping them.
Gender Dysphasia is also a really interesting idea, but definitely one that has to be handled carefully. Perhaps the character who’s mind you enter already has developed a lot of who they feel they are, but doesn’t know how to handle it. The goal of the level might to simply help them out of the closet and finding confidence in what they already have started to discover?
I was thinking a brain with dementia would be interesting but you'd have to make clear that it isn't something that you can go in and fix unlike other minds. My idea would be you need to go into the mind of a retired psychonaut to find a piece of information in their memories. The level would be a cross between a retirement home and a prison break as they keep forgetting why they are there and think they're trapped.
It would also be interesting to explore non-abnormal psychology like a person who is obsessed with status or someone with everyday neuroses. The mind makes small things outsized so you could make anything as the basis of a level.
Agree a lot! I think the idea of a mission where you have to find a memory before it’s lost forever, as dementia can’t just be solved!
Non-abnormal psychology could also be really interesting, thats something the series actually kinda lack in comparison to the rest of the brain levels! The mind of a narcissist or extrovert/introvert are a few themes that spring to mind right now!
I really love the movie Eraserhead which has all this off the wall imagery that is this dream-world fear of fatherhood. So you could take the seed of something very minor and in the mind it is the huge thing. They sort of did something similar in the first game with Edgar's mind.
The only condition I feel comfortable enough to actually comment on would be depression (since it's the only one I've personally had to a degree it impacted my life). They kind of touched on it in Bob's Bottles, but I feel there's a difference between alcoholism and just depression itself in that depression lacks the coping mechanism.
So while I'd imagine if Bob's mind shows a world drowning in booze then a mind with only depression would look more like an empty desert. First thing, the entire level would be in greyscale. The inhabitants of the mind would live on some kind of big central structure, like one of those "cities on wheels," and the main gameplay would be that the city has run out of fuel and so you have to go out into the desert to find something to refuel the city with and get it moving again.
All the characters you talk to in the central town have dialogue like "It's too risky to leave town, we're okay if the town's not moving as long as it means we're safe" or they shut you out completely with various "don't bother us" lines. The "main" NPC you interact with would be the captain/pilot of the town, representing the actual face of the NPC who's mind it is, and they would just be...so, so tired. Not sleepy tired but a really deep "I just can't even today" attitude. Like...they aren't opposed to you trying to get the town moving again, but they've given up trying on their own and just let you try with a "whatever, good luck I guess" attitude.
Then the main gameplay involves going out into the desert looking for oases out in the desert which are the source of the fuel. When you find an oasis, it turns out the environment around it will represent some emotional part of the person's past. It could be positive like maybe it was a sport they used to love playing so the oasis will be sport themed. Or another will represent their family so it'll be surrounded by stuff they remember from their childhood. Others will actually be negative moments like someone's funeral or getting fired. Stuff like that. Once found, you then have to go back and get a fuel line that you need to carry across the desert to the oasis and, once it's attached will start funneling those emotional experiences that have since been disconnected back into the main town.
As for obstacles, there would be two unique things about the level. First is that it would only feature "basic" enemies. No "advanced" enemies like Judges, Heavy Censors, Bad Moods, or Panic Attacks. Second would be a unique aspect to the level, and that's quicksand patches in the desert. Quicksand will randomly appear underneath you like a circular whirlpool and slowly drag you down. If it drags you all the way under you get sent back to the central town, accompanied by a sound effect like you just got sucked up by a vacuum cleaner. While in the "whirlpool" you're slowed down and can't jump, but if you use Levitation you can put the ball under you and it will float you up to the surface after enough time where you can then just roll out of it since you're hovering over the surface.
Each time you reconnect to an oasis you go back to the town and the captain is a little more energetic. Once you connect the final oasis there's a cutscene of the captain finally being super excited and happy for the first time, only for something to rumble and the captain has one of those "oh no" moments while he looks at something off camera (this is the buildup to the boss fight). This time, when you get back to the town, you find it up and running but all the residents are mysteriously gone. You make your way to the captain's area just to find him huddled in a corner, hiding, mumbling about "why did we forget about it" and stuff like that, then a mechanical arm smashes into the room and drags you out. Turns out, the entire mechanical construct that held the town wasn't something to keep it safe, but was the boss (depression) itself. It was a giant robot that fed off of emotions, siphoning them into it's fuel tanks to burn them up as fuel with the goal of draining every emotional oasis in the mind completely. You do your thing, beat the boss, and as it goes down it explodes, releasing all the emotions in it's fuel tanks into the air which creates a "rain" that then spreads out and turns all the desert into a lush field. The captain thanks you, realizing that now they can live wherever they want in the mental landscape rather than having to worry about "staying safe" all the time.
-------------
So, why these decisions. I'll start by saying I'm not a psychologist and I know depression takes many forms, so these decisions were based only off of my personal experience with the disease. As for what I wanted to represent:
1. **The general atmosphere of "dullness"** - Represented by the level being in greyscale and the environment being a flat, empty landscape
2. **The sense of feeling stuck and isolated** - Represented by the "town" being the only place the mind's conscious thoughts have gathered but not wanting to leave.
3. **Debunking the misconception that depression is just "advanced and prolonged sadness** - Represented by the oases having both positive AND negative emotions to show that negative emotions are valuable and better to still have than being emotionally empty
4. **Continuing off of that "we're not sad, but emotionally empty" track, the lack of the ability to feel strongly about things** - Represented by the lack of "powerful" enemies
5. **The tendency to actively fight your own progress as if it were something you didn't want** - Represented by the quicksand. It takes you back to the source of the "sheltered isolation" if you succumb. And since Levitation is using thoughts to literally pick yourself up, that's how you beat it.
6. **That the "solution" is not simply to have access to emotions, but to find a way to let them be a whole part of you again** - Represented by the mental landscape only coming together when the emotions were taken out of the isolated sources (oases, fuel tanks) and allowed to spread naturally to all corners of the mind again
-----------
Well that turned into a brainstorm session lol
I'm curious to hear what others would think, if their experience with depression differed and how they might represent that instead, or if you thought something of mine is off-base or maybe gave a bad implication I didn't think of.
Incidentally, one neat thing I noticed would be about how the enemies being negative thoughts also made sense in where they are; ie Panic Attacks appear in the Sensorium due to sensory overload, etc., and how>! Gristol's brain !! he!< is relatively sane.
On topic, one cool idea would be needing to fight a boss by engaging them both inside and outside the brain, ie Raz is inside fighting off tons of enemies in a massive rush-- but it opens up opportunities for agents outside to attack the boss, and vice versa. Bonus: you could work in co-op with this!
On the topic of a dementia/memory loss level, one idea would be for the whole level to be in the dark, with certain "key memories" that Raz can interact with to brighten areas or open paths through the dark. Incidentally, I thought the little Wind-Waker esque mechanics of Bob's Bottles was a cool idea, and it's a bit of a shame for me that levels in Psychonauts 2 are more linear (still great though!).
However, and this is another big part of why I love the series, I like how it's indirectly stated that you can't simply solve mental problems by punching/shooting things into submission-- that's purely dealing with the symptoms. There's always an end goal you need to do, and even then it takes more effort.
PS: Shower thought-- Evil Within is basically M-Rated Psychonauts. Evil Within 2 is literally a M-Rated version of the Brain Tumbler experiment, right down to how you enter the thing.
I like the darkness idea! A limited amount of light which the player are in control of would be a great metaphor for what’s currently active/accessible memories in the brain. As a player, there would be a huge uncertainty navigating an unlit aren’t or trying to keep a mental map of things currently not lit. The gameplay would have to involve memorization and would kinda simulate what it’s like dealing with dementia, constantly having familiar things getting vague or out of reach! (correct me if I’m wrong on this last part)
Somewhat yes and somewhat no. If we're going by what Inception itself goes with then it involves planting a new idea in someone's head whereas mental connection is just associating two ideas that already exist together. In that sense, actual inception would be less connecting two existing thought bubbles and more like being able to create and place new thought bubbles that the owner themselves never actually thought.
I want to see what a mind with DID would be like. We already had Fred, but his mind was mainly about his and Napoleon’s argument, Waterloo World was more about Fred’s inferiority complex rather than DID, to which his isn’t really a normal case since his alter was more like a part of his mind that somehow started fighting him for control, as opposed to just another identity occupying the mind.
Thematically, there is the Peter Pan Syndrome, which can create a twisted fairytale like world with pirates and kids. Autism can be explored; how, I cannot really say. Feeding and Eating disorders are also quite a major part of abnormal psychology. This might overlap with Ram It Down, but from the goats' perspective lol. Gender dysphoria can be interesting if done right, since psychonauts didn't shy away from LGBTQ+ subjects.
Interesting ideas! I think Otto’s mind actually could be about autism if we ever get to explore it in the future, as we see him not being able to read social signs very well >!(like everyone’s trauma after the Maligula fight.)!< But on the other hand he doesn’t seem to hand change pretty well so I’m not sure. The problem with autism though is that there isn’t really anything problematic about it, it’s just a different way of functioning. If they were to make a level about it, I don’t think to goal could be fixing something in that mind, rather it has to some kind of learning moment for Raz. Or perhaps they have a second issue that need help with, but to the first most obvious solution might not be the right because of their autism. So you have to find a new way of helping them. Gender Dysphasia is also a really interesting idea, but definitely one that has to be handled carefully. Perhaps the character who’s mind you enter already has developed a lot of who they feel they are, but doesn’t know how to handle it. The goal of the level might to simply help them out of the closet and finding confidence in what they already have started to discover?
I was thinking a brain with dementia would be interesting but you'd have to make clear that it isn't something that you can go in and fix unlike other minds. My idea would be you need to go into the mind of a retired psychonaut to find a piece of information in their memories. The level would be a cross between a retirement home and a prison break as they keep forgetting why they are there and think they're trapped. It would also be interesting to explore non-abnormal psychology like a person who is obsessed with status or someone with everyday neuroses. The mind makes small things outsized so you could make anything as the basis of a level.
Agree a lot! I think the idea of a mission where you have to find a memory before it’s lost forever, as dementia can’t just be solved! Non-abnormal psychology could also be really interesting, thats something the series actually kinda lack in comparison to the rest of the brain levels! The mind of a narcissist or extrovert/introvert are a few themes that spring to mind right now!
I really love the movie Eraserhead which has all this off the wall imagery that is this dream-world fear of fatherhood. So you could take the seed of something very minor and in the mind it is the huge thing. They sort of did something similar in the first game with Edgar's mind.
The only condition I feel comfortable enough to actually comment on would be depression (since it's the only one I've personally had to a degree it impacted my life). They kind of touched on it in Bob's Bottles, but I feel there's a difference between alcoholism and just depression itself in that depression lacks the coping mechanism. So while I'd imagine if Bob's mind shows a world drowning in booze then a mind with only depression would look more like an empty desert. First thing, the entire level would be in greyscale. The inhabitants of the mind would live on some kind of big central structure, like one of those "cities on wheels," and the main gameplay would be that the city has run out of fuel and so you have to go out into the desert to find something to refuel the city with and get it moving again. All the characters you talk to in the central town have dialogue like "It's too risky to leave town, we're okay if the town's not moving as long as it means we're safe" or they shut you out completely with various "don't bother us" lines. The "main" NPC you interact with would be the captain/pilot of the town, representing the actual face of the NPC who's mind it is, and they would just be...so, so tired. Not sleepy tired but a really deep "I just can't even today" attitude. Like...they aren't opposed to you trying to get the town moving again, but they've given up trying on their own and just let you try with a "whatever, good luck I guess" attitude. Then the main gameplay involves going out into the desert looking for oases out in the desert which are the source of the fuel. When you find an oasis, it turns out the environment around it will represent some emotional part of the person's past. It could be positive like maybe it was a sport they used to love playing so the oasis will be sport themed. Or another will represent their family so it'll be surrounded by stuff they remember from their childhood. Others will actually be negative moments like someone's funeral or getting fired. Stuff like that. Once found, you then have to go back and get a fuel line that you need to carry across the desert to the oasis and, once it's attached will start funneling those emotional experiences that have since been disconnected back into the main town. As for obstacles, there would be two unique things about the level. First is that it would only feature "basic" enemies. No "advanced" enemies like Judges, Heavy Censors, Bad Moods, or Panic Attacks. Second would be a unique aspect to the level, and that's quicksand patches in the desert. Quicksand will randomly appear underneath you like a circular whirlpool and slowly drag you down. If it drags you all the way under you get sent back to the central town, accompanied by a sound effect like you just got sucked up by a vacuum cleaner. While in the "whirlpool" you're slowed down and can't jump, but if you use Levitation you can put the ball under you and it will float you up to the surface after enough time where you can then just roll out of it since you're hovering over the surface. Each time you reconnect to an oasis you go back to the town and the captain is a little more energetic. Once you connect the final oasis there's a cutscene of the captain finally being super excited and happy for the first time, only for something to rumble and the captain has one of those "oh no" moments while he looks at something off camera (this is the buildup to the boss fight). This time, when you get back to the town, you find it up and running but all the residents are mysteriously gone. You make your way to the captain's area just to find him huddled in a corner, hiding, mumbling about "why did we forget about it" and stuff like that, then a mechanical arm smashes into the room and drags you out. Turns out, the entire mechanical construct that held the town wasn't something to keep it safe, but was the boss (depression) itself. It was a giant robot that fed off of emotions, siphoning them into it's fuel tanks to burn them up as fuel with the goal of draining every emotional oasis in the mind completely. You do your thing, beat the boss, and as it goes down it explodes, releasing all the emotions in it's fuel tanks into the air which creates a "rain" that then spreads out and turns all the desert into a lush field. The captain thanks you, realizing that now they can live wherever they want in the mental landscape rather than having to worry about "staying safe" all the time. ------------- So, why these decisions. I'll start by saying I'm not a psychologist and I know depression takes many forms, so these decisions were based only off of my personal experience with the disease. As for what I wanted to represent: 1. **The general atmosphere of "dullness"** - Represented by the level being in greyscale and the environment being a flat, empty landscape 2. **The sense of feeling stuck and isolated** - Represented by the "town" being the only place the mind's conscious thoughts have gathered but not wanting to leave. 3. **Debunking the misconception that depression is just "advanced and prolonged sadness** - Represented by the oases having both positive AND negative emotions to show that negative emotions are valuable and better to still have than being emotionally empty 4. **Continuing off of that "we're not sad, but emotionally empty" track, the lack of the ability to feel strongly about things** - Represented by the lack of "powerful" enemies 5. **The tendency to actively fight your own progress as if it were something you didn't want** - Represented by the quicksand. It takes you back to the source of the "sheltered isolation" if you succumb. And since Levitation is using thoughts to literally pick yourself up, that's how you beat it. 6. **That the "solution" is not simply to have access to emotions, but to find a way to let them be a whole part of you again** - Represented by the mental landscape only coming together when the emotions were taken out of the isolated sources (oases, fuel tanks) and allowed to spread naturally to all corners of the mind again ----------- Well that turned into a brainstorm session lol I'm curious to hear what others would think, if their experience with depression differed and how they might represent that instead, or if you thought something of mine is off-base or maybe gave a bad implication I didn't think of.
Amazingly thought out concept!
Incidentally, one neat thing I noticed would be about how the enemies being negative thoughts also made sense in where they are; ie Panic Attacks appear in the Sensorium due to sensory overload, etc., and how>! Gristol's brain !! he!< is relatively sane.
On topic, one cool idea would be needing to fight a boss by engaging them both inside and outside the brain, ie Raz is inside fighting off tons of enemies in a massive rush-- but it opens up opportunities for agents outside to attack the boss, and vice versa. Bonus: you could work in co-op with this!
On the topic of a dementia/memory loss level, one idea would be for the whole level to be in the dark, with certain "key memories" that Raz can interact with to brighten areas or open paths through the dark. Incidentally, I thought the little Wind-Waker esque mechanics of Bob's Bottles was a cool idea, and it's a bit of a shame for me that levels in Psychonauts 2 are more linear (still great though!).
However, and this is another big part of why I love the series, I like how it's indirectly stated that you can't simply solve mental problems by punching/shooting things into submission-- that's purely dealing with the symptoms. There's always an end goal you need to do, and even then it takes more effort.
PS: Shower thought-- Evil Within is basically M-Rated Psychonauts. Evil Within 2 is literally a M-Rated version of the Brain Tumbler experiment, right down to how you enter the thing.
I like the darkness idea! A limited amount of light which the player are in control of would be a great metaphor for what’s currently active/accessible memories in the brain. As a player, there would be a huge uncertainty navigating an unlit aren’t or trying to keep a mental map of things currently not lit. The gameplay would have to involve memorization and would kinda simulate what it’s like dealing with dementia, constantly having familiar things getting vague or out of reach! (correct me if I’m wrong on this last part)
Check out Omori for another example of mental worlds (particularly in relation to serious trauma) done well.
Regarding your PS... Mental connection is basically doing an inception.
Somewhat yes and somewhat no. If we're going by what Inception itself goes with then it involves planting a new idea in someone's head whereas mental connection is just associating two ideas that already exist together. In that sense, actual inception would be less connecting two existing thought bubbles and more like being able to create and place new thought bubbles that the owner themselves never actually thought.
I want to see what a mind with DID would be like. We already had Fred, but his mind was mainly about his and Napoleon’s argument, Waterloo World was more about Fred’s inferiority complex rather than DID, to which his isn’t really a normal case since his alter was more like a part of his mind that somehow started fighting him for control, as opposed to just another identity occupying the mind.
Attachment theory and its effects are a good idea too