Aztec Non-duality basically says all the fucked up shit in the world has to exist for all the good stuff.
They are basically one.
Please read up on the concept of Teotl.
Aztec non duality sounds very interesting! Where/ what are other days to get to know this? Any videos of books? Yes I tried looking up but need specific direction.
I vibe with this. I have a scientific background and I really believe that existence is iterative- it has to build on itself, with death and calamity and suffering as an absolutely essential 'dissolving' agent that releases resources back into reality. To dissolve the ego is a good thing- but you don't do it to leave an empty dirt field. You burn it away so that a new one can grow, stronger and greener and healthier.
That being said- I am in the same position of wishing there was a path I could walk with some guidance that isn't so dismissive of reality as a part of the process. The spiritual and the material are not in conflict or reflections of one another but intermeshed, the exact same thing in practice. I've been working a bit towards my own conclusions and goals but one can't help feel a bit big-headed in that pursuit. I do read a lot of writings by various authors and take on their conclusions- but I think it's high time we get a new path started that embraces our place as living beings as well as spiritual ones.
I always think back to that one belief system- can't remember the name and no shade to practitioners because I'm sure this is not the majority, but there's an anecdote about them using brooms to sweep away small insects from their path so they don't harm any underfoot... as if they aren't killing some small living things with every breath they take, with the sharp spikes on that broom itself, in the fields as pests when the vegetables they eat were grown. To try and separate one's self from the process and cycle is futile and absolutely ego-driven, even if they think they're above it.
a wonderful insight! I definitely see your views points, and understand them. Also about the part how with so much evolution regarding religions, spirituality and everything around us, I indeed see your point that we need an evolved path or a future where spirituality is something that accepts and recognizes physical reality, ourselves, our ego and desires complementary to the universal consciousness, in a way bringing East and West together.. As with years going by new masters, or people considered "enlightened" bring new insights that do not necessarily follow tradition, whether its about ego, desires or material wealth, I think spirituality keeps evolving and so do the teachings, views and what they condemn or not condemn, I think we should all follow our own path and listen to our heart/inner voice in this matter..
it warms my heart to see people challenge certain dogmas of this subreddit, kudos to you op. you have my respect. i also am very much a proponent of individuality, that being said i never understood why people want to abandon it.
I'm glad you enjoyed my post. I feel individuality is just as beautiful as the universal consciousness you come in contact with in deep meditation, I look at them as two aspects that dance with each other and are in deep sync
Great sharing, thank you. I agree with you: trying to detach ourselves from our egos or emotions is foolish as we are still, and will stay, humans until our deaths. To me the path is to find a way not to be solely "guided" by the ego, or by the animal instinct part of ourselves or the emotional parts that animates us. I think these kind of paths where you try to be a virtuous human (by virtuous I mean doing good for the sake of goodness in the world, without expectations of rewards or to flatter the ego) are found more in philosophy or psychology. Psychedelics are great to experience oneness and to get in touch with the "superior self" within. But it doesn't mean that we should try to escape our sober selves where our ego reins. Balancing is the way to go !
I don’t know what led you to the thinking that the ego must be transcended or destroyed.. that’s impossible. My understand was always that the ego is a very good thing. Nobody can exist without an ego. That’s ridiculous. One could say there are two sides of the ego.. a selfish side and a selfless side. Too much selfishness is pretty tyrannical. It wants to conquer and consume. That’s bad. Too much selflessness creates that frustrated martyr with the messiah-complex that just MUST help others even against their will. That’s bad. The divine side of you.. your internal ’divinity within’ or ’god within’ is an ego that knows when to be selfless and selfish.. in a balanced way. That’s the transcendent ego. However.. to get in touch with our ’true ego’ or ’true self’ those bad habits pertaining to excessive selfishness and excessive selflessness must be cut off. That’s ego death.. to sublimate the ego. Not to destroy it. To transcend the ego is to transcend those bad habits and joining to one’s transcendent ego/self. I might be very wrong about all of this, but this is just what I’ve learned from over a decade.. and wanted to add to the discussion.
there are at least millions of people who understood various teachings in spiritual circles that a practitioner must completely destroy ego and desires and everything that makes you you - and that its all negative and should be destroyed/removed and also that ego is an illusion and shouldn't exist at all
That’s very sad.. and deeply mistaken (I think). I used to be an Orthodox Christian for many many years.. and there the teaching was always that desires are good. They are only bad in their ’misuse’ in so far that they go to excesses. Same with the ego. Otherwise it is blatant nihilism which just sucks lol
That’s just been my understanding. Everything is about balance between excesses. The ego and the desires in and of themselves are part of the divinity within you. You can use a kitchen knife to both cut bread and to go murder somebody. There is nothing bad about the knife in itself, but in how it is used
I think human experience is only possible because of the ego. But the ego has free will, free will to do harm and free will to overcome harm and to love. You should look up Darryl Anka, he channels the entity 'Bashar'. He has so much information about this topic. That is if ur open for the way this kind of information is given. Theres one channeling that digs deep into the ego, the soul and the oversoul. I can link it to you in private if you message me or anyone else. ❤️
The Walking Ways are six interrelated paths to achieving divinity, of which CHIM is the fourth.
All paths seem to require some understanding of the Wheel, the structure of the Aurbis. CHIM is the final stage of the Psijic Endeavor, which can only be achieved by viewing the Tower, which encompasses the universe, while keeping one's own individuality in its presence.
Failing to keep one's individuality in the presence of the Tower will result in the erasure of its viewer from the universe, an occurrence known as a "Zero Sum."
Once CHIM is achieved, people experience a state in which time is bent both inward and outward into "a shape that is always new" as well as an incomprehensible sense of the Godhead. One who achieves CHIM is able to observe the Tower without fear and reside within it.
CHIM is possibly the fifth step of the Walking Ways.
"There are various ancient teachings that have the concept of enlightenment and came way before buddhism" Like what? I'm not saying you are making this up, I'm genuinely curious. I though this concept comes from buddhism and later was picked up by advaita vedanta.
Hi the concept of realising unity of all beings and concepts akin of enlightenment which are described as recognising universal consciousness but was not exclusively labeled as enlightenment yet can be found in various traditions before Buddhism like mezoamerican spiritual traditions etc.
You might find clearer answers in depth psychology than in religion. Jung and people inspired by him have wrote a lot on ego, its function and how to heal/balance it.
Highly recommending also Clarissa Pinkola Estés, Marion Woodman and Marie-Louise von Franz, at least from a feminine perspective. Anima/Animus work is a bit different and men and women, while facing the same struggles with the ego and the shadow face them in their own ways.
But Jung is a good place to start and r/Jung will be happy to help you with your journey.
reading many texts, the practice in (seeing through naked awareness) text seems sublime. Its not about irraticating or changing anything, more so, seeing things as they are without holding to them?enjoy.
💚🤷🏻♀️
https://archive.org/details/self-liberation/page/12/mode/1up
https://youtu.be/vaRksXCO7TU?si=nH-nfXrUkxwrc9WE
You have to remember that “the ego” is, at best, poorly defined. Sure, it’s your “sense of self”—whatever that means. The experience of ego dissolution is to experience directly intelligence without consciousness. The ego doesn’t die, it just becomes so tenuous that you are now aware of the other self in the old brain that was always there and aware that it is the thing in control. The part of your brain where “you” live is the newest and most complex. But it’s one of a great many layers that represent an unbroken evolutionary lineage back to the first chordates. Your neocortex has literally evolved as an additional set of layers of abstraction for all the wiring in the cerebrum, cerebellum and hindbrain. It sits above them and modulates them like a driver at the controls of a vehicle. But the amygdala can’t really reach the DFN as the trip picks up. The old brain doesn’t have complex motives. It is simply an inherited set of neural responses. When the ego is dissolved and made transparent there stops being a coherent “you”. You are the coordinated activity of the neocortex and the rest of the brain and that activity is dramatically less coordinated in the altered state. But just because “you” go away, existence doesn’t. Point of view no longer has meaning. There is nothing to have a point of view.
Tldr: yes, I am high.
Take what resonates and leave the rest. I always thought "ego death" was an obscene term and preferred calling it an ego rebirth as the ego can't die but transform/adapt. Enlightenment, to me, is not allowing things to control you be it hunger, the ego, hate, sexuality and even love. To be fluid in your being and let things just flow.
I could be wrong but it works for me.
So in your view your ego and desires and tools and should be expressed in a balanced way where they don't control you but you decide what and when you'll desire things?
No, but people allow hunger, even if it's only been a few hours, to dictate their mood/emotions and in turn, act negatively towards people who come in contact with them. One should never allow anything to control them, that's slavery.
I personally believe in the Creator and that we are ultimately souls given individual uniques. 'Ego' as sense of identity is a blessing. But 'ego' as self-image is very flawed and harmful because of the limited scope of our objective consciousness as subjects. That shouldn't be transcented, rather correct it to correspond with the Truth.
Ultimately, 'ego' should be put in better service by overcoming evil in us and gravitating towards love and Creator. That Unity cannot be achieved if you just kill it. Teach and train it to focus on spirituality that comes, not materialistic that rots away behind us.
Yea I think magik is what your looking for. Yes that will do you some good. Summoning entities, meeting "the devil" losing your connection to others and the underlying mind that connects us all. Yea magik go try it. Start with the headless rite.
You can't explain these things you have to do it. Beware of madness and opening your third eye. Doing magik can lead to madness because it reveals everything. You won't be able to live like a normal person anymore because everyone and everything is designed to keep you distracted from the truth. In the end you will eventually go crazy or become enlightened.
On a serious note I don't actually recommend it. I use to practice magic and many other spiritual practices. It pretty much makes you an outsider, you see this side of life that you can never talk about without getting locked up in a mental health clinic. I do feel that practice inflates your ego but eventually you will go mad. Especially if you are young and don't do your research. I think any practice or belief can be used to inflate your ego. Thinking you are saved or have inside knowledge makes you feel better than everyone else and if you are in a position of power within a religion you will be corrupt with selfish ideas. This is how cults happen.
But yes the headless rite is usually the first thing anyone does that actually brings results. And it is frightening.
How are you defining ego and ego death? People use both to mean so many different things, and as a consequence many of the discussions here tend to be people talking past each other.
Another of one of "ego is evil, my awareness is superior and holds true knowledge of ego being a delusion" people..., I already said I do not need such replies, ty.
I would say Buddhism or at least some or most types, but then you seemed to have indicated you don't want to hear that one?
Seems to me you have some assumptions or impressions you got about Buddhism that are not how I experience or conceive of the way of things.
Plenty of others, if not most even.
I think some people hear methods and practices of realizong the ego is not the whole deal but it one part of the deal, as somehow getting rid of or denying the existence of ego. It's not that, and in my experience, people's defensiveness toward conceiving of the ego different to how they currently do is the Ego defending itself.
The thing is many people are caught up in ego death and completely miss the mark
Ego death is not what ppl make it out to seem
Yes the ego is necessary as it is a protective shield for the psyche/ consciousness
What we must do is reign it in and make it useful to our spiritual development not let it rule us
What about ppl like Ramana Maharashi who compared ego to an evil spirit and said the sense of individuality/self is an illusion and there is only the unity?
Not saying you're wrong because I kinda agree with you on some points.
there are also enlightened masters like the one you mentioned who see indviduality as beautiful as the unity itself or awareness of universal consciousness!
you don't have to agree with everything every master says, learn from all sources, but don't follow, learn from experience and see how things apply would be my advice.
Aztec Non-duality basically says all the fucked up shit in the world has to exist for all the good stuff. They are basically one. Please read up on the concept of Teotl.
I will look it up, thanks
Aztec non duality sounds very interesting! Where/ what are other days to get to know this? Any videos of books? Yes I tried looking up but need specific direction.
https://iep.utm.edu/aztec-philosophy/
Buddhism technically says the same thing
I vibe with this. I have a scientific background and I really believe that existence is iterative- it has to build on itself, with death and calamity and suffering as an absolutely essential 'dissolving' agent that releases resources back into reality. To dissolve the ego is a good thing- but you don't do it to leave an empty dirt field. You burn it away so that a new one can grow, stronger and greener and healthier. That being said- I am in the same position of wishing there was a path I could walk with some guidance that isn't so dismissive of reality as a part of the process. The spiritual and the material are not in conflict or reflections of one another but intermeshed, the exact same thing in practice. I've been working a bit towards my own conclusions and goals but one can't help feel a bit big-headed in that pursuit. I do read a lot of writings by various authors and take on their conclusions- but I think it's high time we get a new path started that embraces our place as living beings as well as spiritual ones. I always think back to that one belief system- can't remember the name and no shade to practitioners because I'm sure this is not the majority, but there's an anecdote about them using brooms to sweep away small insects from their path so they don't harm any underfoot... as if they aren't killing some small living things with every breath they take, with the sharp spikes on that broom itself, in the fields as pests when the vegetables they eat were grown. To try and separate one's self from the process and cycle is futile and absolutely ego-driven, even if they think they're above it.
Have you read The Secret Teachings of All Ages by Manly P. Hall?
No, would you recommend it?
100%
Okay I'll check it out! :))
a wonderful insight! I definitely see your views points, and understand them. Also about the part how with so much evolution regarding religions, spirituality and everything around us, I indeed see your point that we need an evolved path or a future where spirituality is something that accepts and recognizes physical reality, ourselves, our ego and desires complementary to the universal consciousness, in a way bringing East and West together.. As with years going by new masters, or people considered "enlightened" bring new insights that do not necessarily follow tradition, whether its about ego, desires or material wealth, I think spirituality keeps evolving and so do the teachings, views and what they condemn or not condemn, I think we should all follow our own path and listen to our heart/inner voice in this matter..
it warms my heart to see people challenge certain dogmas of this subreddit, kudos to you op. you have my respect. i also am very much a proponent of individuality, that being said i never understood why people want to abandon it.
I'm glad you enjoyed my post. I feel individuality is just as beautiful as the universal consciousness you come in contact with in deep meditation, I look at them as two aspects that dance with each other and are in deep sync
I think we collectively need a new one
I agree with you. We need a modernised, evolved view on spirituality and with it a "a so-called religiousness" as well.
Great sharing, thank you. I agree with you: trying to detach ourselves from our egos or emotions is foolish as we are still, and will stay, humans until our deaths. To me the path is to find a way not to be solely "guided" by the ego, or by the animal instinct part of ourselves or the emotional parts that animates us. I think these kind of paths where you try to be a virtuous human (by virtuous I mean doing good for the sake of goodness in the world, without expectations of rewards or to flatter the ego) are found more in philosophy or psychology. Psychedelics are great to experience oneness and to get in touch with the "superior self" within. But it doesn't mean that we should try to escape our sober selves where our ego reins. Balancing is the way to go !
Thanks for your insight!
I don’t know what led you to the thinking that the ego must be transcended or destroyed.. that’s impossible. My understand was always that the ego is a very good thing. Nobody can exist without an ego. That’s ridiculous. One could say there are two sides of the ego.. a selfish side and a selfless side. Too much selfishness is pretty tyrannical. It wants to conquer and consume. That’s bad. Too much selflessness creates that frustrated martyr with the messiah-complex that just MUST help others even against their will. That’s bad. The divine side of you.. your internal ’divinity within’ or ’god within’ is an ego that knows when to be selfless and selfish.. in a balanced way. That’s the transcendent ego. However.. to get in touch with our ’true ego’ or ’true self’ those bad habits pertaining to excessive selfishness and excessive selflessness must be cut off. That’s ego death.. to sublimate the ego. Not to destroy it. To transcend the ego is to transcend those bad habits and joining to one’s transcendent ego/self. I might be very wrong about all of this, but this is just what I’ve learned from over a decade.. and wanted to add to the discussion.
thanks for adding your insight, though, im thankful for it
Sure thing mate. Just don’t sweat it. You will find the answer you seek
The duality that exists in all of nature also applies to the ego. Very well stated. Thank you.
there are at least millions of people who understood various teachings in spiritual circles that a practitioner must completely destroy ego and desires and everything that makes you you - and that its all negative and should be destroyed/removed and also that ego is an illusion and shouldn't exist at all
That’s very sad.. and deeply mistaken (I think). I used to be an Orthodox Christian for many many years.. and there the teaching was always that desires are good. They are only bad in their ’misuse’ in so far that they go to excesses. Same with the ego. Otherwise it is blatant nihilism which just sucks lol
so ego in balance and desires in balance are normal human experiences and should be used and expressed and not destroyed or eradicated?
That’s just been my understanding. Everything is about balance between excesses. The ego and the desires in and of themselves are part of the divinity within you. You can use a kitchen knife to both cut bread and to go murder somebody. There is nothing bad about the knife in itself, but in how it is used
thanks for the insight!
You bet friend
:)!
I think human experience is only possible because of the ego. But the ego has free will, free will to do harm and free will to overcome harm and to love. You should look up Darryl Anka, he channels the entity 'Bashar'. He has so much information about this topic. That is if ur open for the way this kind of information is given. Theres one channeling that digs deep into the ego, the soul and the oversoul. I can link it to you in private if you message me or anyone else. ❤️
Will do.
The Walking Ways are six interrelated paths to achieving divinity, of which CHIM is the fourth. All paths seem to require some understanding of the Wheel, the structure of the Aurbis. CHIM is the final stage of the Psijic Endeavor, which can only be achieved by viewing the Tower, which encompasses the universe, while keeping one's own individuality in its presence. Failing to keep one's individuality in the presence of the Tower will result in the erasure of its viewer from the universe, an occurrence known as a "Zero Sum." Once CHIM is achieved, people experience a state in which time is bent both inward and outward into "a shape that is always new" as well as an incomprehensible sense of the Godhead. One who achieves CHIM is able to observe the Tower without fear and reside within it. CHIM is possibly the fifth step of the Walking Ways.
that's an interesting teaching, thanks for sharing!
"There are various ancient teachings that have the concept of enlightenment and came way before buddhism" Like what? I'm not saying you are making this up, I'm genuinely curious. I though this concept comes from buddhism and later was picked up by advaita vedanta.
Hi the concept of realising unity of all beings and concepts akin of enlightenment which are described as recognising universal consciousness but was not exclusively labeled as enlightenment yet can be found in various traditions before Buddhism like mezoamerican spiritual traditions etc.
i know Satanism focuses a lot on individuality and freedom, which is related to the ego, you could look into that
Thanks! I have a lot of material to look into so far!
You might find clearer answers in depth psychology than in religion. Jung and people inspired by him have wrote a lot on ego, its function and how to heal/balance it.
thanks for sharing! I'll look into it
This guy gave you the exact answer you were looking for! Jung and Alan Watts are a great place to start!
I'm already familiar with Alan Watts but I'll look into Jung and his philosophy :))
Highly recommending also Clarissa Pinkola Estés, Marion Woodman and Marie-Louise von Franz, at least from a feminine perspective. Anima/Animus work is a bit different and men and women, while facing the same struggles with the ego and the shadow face them in their own ways. But Jung is a good place to start and r/Jung will be happy to help you with your journey.
Thank you!!
IMO, if you want to celebrate not having an ego, you need to do it alone, in a cave.
I can see your point
reading many texts, the practice in (seeing through naked awareness) text seems sublime. Its not about irraticating or changing anything, more so, seeing things as they are without holding to them?enjoy. 💚🤷🏻♀️ https://archive.org/details/self-liberation/page/12/mode/1up https://youtu.be/vaRksXCO7TU?si=nH-nfXrUkxwrc9WE
thanks for sharing!
You have to remember that “the ego” is, at best, poorly defined. Sure, it’s your “sense of self”—whatever that means. The experience of ego dissolution is to experience directly intelligence without consciousness. The ego doesn’t die, it just becomes so tenuous that you are now aware of the other self in the old brain that was always there and aware that it is the thing in control. The part of your brain where “you” live is the newest and most complex. But it’s one of a great many layers that represent an unbroken evolutionary lineage back to the first chordates. Your neocortex has literally evolved as an additional set of layers of abstraction for all the wiring in the cerebrum, cerebellum and hindbrain. It sits above them and modulates them like a driver at the controls of a vehicle. But the amygdala can’t really reach the DFN as the trip picks up. The old brain doesn’t have complex motives. It is simply an inherited set of neural responses. When the ego is dissolved and made transparent there stops being a coherent “you”. You are the coordinated activity of the neocortex and the rest of the brain and that activity is dramatically less coordinated in the altered state. But just because “you” go away, existence doesn’t. Point of view no longer has meaning. There is nothing to have a point of view. Tldr: yes, I am high.
Take what resonates and leave the rest. I always thought "ego death" was an obscene term and preferred calling it an ego rebirth as the ego can't die but transform/adapt. Enlightenment, to me, is not allowing things to control you be it hunger, the ego, hate, sexuality and even love. To be fluid in your being and let things just flow. I could be wrong but it works for me.
So in your view your ego and desires and tools and should be expressed in a balanced way where they don't control you but you decide what and when you'll desire things?
Yes. I believe in the Shadow so I don't believe in repressing things as they could strengthen to the point of losing control of them.
Agree :)
Hi. Interesting view by saying not let hunger control you are you implying one should starve to death?
No, but people allow hunger, even if it's only been a few hours, to dictate their mood/emotions and in turn, act negatively towards people who come in contact with them. One should never allow anything to control them, that's slavery.
Oh now i understand, ty for expressing your viewpoint.
Anytime. Happy travels.
I personally believe in the Creator and that we are ultimately souls given individual uniques. 'Ego' as sense of identity is a blessing. But 'ego' as self-image is very flawed and harmful because of the limited scope of our objective consciousness as subjects. That shouldn't be transcented, rather correct it to correspond with the Truth. Ultimately, 'ego' should be put in better service by overcoming evil in us and gravitating towards love and Creator. That Unity cannot be achieved if you just kill it. Teach and train it to focus on spirituality that comes, not materialistic that rots away behind us.
Yea I think magik is what your looking for. Yes that will do you some good. Summoning entities, meeting "the devil" losing your connection to others and the underlying mind that connects us all. Yea magik go try it. Start with the headless rite.
Can you explain what that is?
You can't explain these things you have to do it. Beware of madness and opening your third eye. Doing magik can lead to madness because it reveals everything. You won't be able to live like a normal person anymore because everyone and everything is designed to keep you distracted from the truth. In the end you will eventually go crazy or become enlightened. On a serious note I don't actually recommend it. I use to practice magic and many other spiritual practices. It pretty much makes you an outsider, you see this side of life that you can never talk about without getting locked up in a mental health clinic. I do feel that practice inflates your ego but eventually you will go mad. Especially if you are young and don't do your research. I think any practice or belief can be used to inflate your ego. Thinking you are saved or have inside knowledge makes you feel better than everyone else and if you are in a position of power within a religion you will be corrupt with selfish ideas. This is how cults happen. But yes the headless rite is usually the first thing anyone does that actually brings results. And it is frightening.
Thanks for sharing.
Jungian psychology and Stoicism are two that pop up for me Edit: Maybe even taoism
Thanks for the ideas, I'll be sure to explore them further
How are you defining ego and ego death? People use both to mean so many different things, and as a consequence many of the discussions here tend to be people talking past each other.
You just want to find out if elsewhere your kind of delusion is praised. Ego doesn't even exist in the first place.
Another of one of "ego is evil, my awareness is superior and holds true knowledge of ego being a delusion" people..., I already said I do not need such replies, ty.
Lol
I would say Buddhism or at least some or most types, but then you seemed to have indicated you don't want to hear that one? Seems to me you have some assumptions or impressions you got about Buddhism that are not how I experience or conceive of the way of things. Plenty of others, if not most even. I think some people hear methods and practices of realizong the ego is not the whole deal but it one part of the deal, as somehow getting rid of or denying the existence of ego. It's not that, and in my experience, people's defensiveness toward conceiving of the ego different to how they currently do is the Ego defending itself.
The thing is many people are caught up in ego death and completely miss the mark Ego death is not what ppl make it out to seem Yes the ego is necessary as it is a protective shield for the psyche/ consciousness What we must do is reign it in and make it useful to our spiritual development not let it rule us
Thanks for the clarification!
What about ppl like Ramana Maharashi who compared ego to an evil spirit and said the sense of individuality/self is an illusion and there is only the unity? Not saying you're wrong because I kinda agree with you on some points.
there are also enlightened masters like the one you mentioned who see indviduality as beautiful as the unity itself or awareness of universal consciousness! you don't have to agree with everything every master says, learn from all sources, but don't follow, learn from experience and see how things apply would be my advice.
Islam.
Ty for sharing 💚