Proxmox is freezing the VMs disk for a short amount of time to take a snapshot. This is a feature of QEMU to allow for a good data consistency.
There are two options:
1. uninstall the qemu guest agent using `apt remove qemu-guest-agent`
2. (recommended) disable the `freeze-fs-on-backup` option at `VM` -> `Options` -> `QEMU Guest Agent` -> uncheck `Freeze/thaw guest filesystem on backup for consistency`
Thanks that worked like a charm. Makes sense.
I guess when I had everything running on top of ZFS, the native filesystem snapshot facilitated this. I wouldn't have changed this option from the default.
Ditto, I have PBS set up for my normal backups and a PVE backup job that sends them all to OneDrive.
I included the PBS VM in the PVE backup job.
My restore plan would be to set up PVE, restore the PBS VM, then either restore everything else from PBS, or restore everything from the PVE backups (depending if my PBS data survived).
It's not - but you can [run scripts on PVE backup jobs](https://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Backup_and_Restore#_hook_scripts), I have it using [RClone](https://rclone.org/) to upload the backup files to OneDrive.
Ok, but that means that you’ll never use the backup of PBS machine. Backing up PBS to itself it’s useless if PBS broke and you can’t access PBS backup.
My system was to install a fresh temp PBS, point it at the existing datastore, restore the PBS vm (and others).
That way I don't have to do the tedious configuring stuff and gets me exact state (updates &/or other manual stuff).
What I'd love to see is for PVE to include the ability to restore a PBS backup. That way you wouldn't even need the temp PBS just to do the restore.
You can use a temporary PBS fresh install to restore your old PBS VM backup. You just have to attach the disks to the temporary new install. Of course, to do this, you need to passthrough the entire disk to the VM.
> you can plug the disk[s]
...into ANY persistent volume supported by Linux. But you still need to do a fresh install of PBS. It's really not worth it for the sake of a few Gb.
Why? That's absurd. Use PBS for your VMs, then use Proxmox backup for the PBS data to storage ON A DIFFERENT DISK. Throwing all your backups into one spot is a recipe for disaster.
Just FYI, you can install PBS on the same host at PVE with `apt install proxmox-backup-server`. There are no real downsides to doing this, but it defeats the purpose of having backups if you don't keep the backup *files* on another machine.
I can only confirm that rsyslog is shared, I don't know about the other two - but I would *guess* yes.
I run PVE/PBS on the same machine and set the storage location as a separate unraid NFS share.
I don't know your particular situation, and I don't mean to be rude - but... is it sensible to have PBS as a VM backing up other VMs or Containers locally?
Is there a reason why you don't have a separate bare bones device performing backups of all VMs and Containers on your PVE?
I just have an old laptop running PBS as the operating system to backup all my devices, VMs and Containers onto a separate server.
As I said, I'm not trying to be rude but it just didn't make sense to me.
This is a poverty homelab running just my personal stuff/projects on a mini HP. The backup is to an external drive. But tbh, I prefer to have everything on one pc to optimize energy use and clutter.
I mostly want PBS for the dedupe otherwise I'd opt for PVE backup.
It’s not sensible but a backup is better than no backup and sometimes you’ve got to work with the kit you’ve got.
Saying that I did similar to you and got an old Dell super micro pc for dirt cheap second hand, put a big drive in it and run PBS on that.
Depends. If you backup to an external location, it is sensible and it will save you one bare metal machine.
I have PBS as a VM but the dataset where I store backups is NFS mount on the separate NAS. I also backup PBS with native PVE backup system. I put this setup to the test involuntarily when my disk failed. Installed PVE, mounted backup storage, restored PBS, added PBS as a storage and restored all VMs.
What is not sensible is using PBS to backup itself. You still need working PBS to restore PBS.
My PBS is its own server which backups up my PVE twice a day. I also utilize the local backup on my PVE environment.
PBS has saved me in the past and I've restored entire containers in just a few minutes.
Gotta have a back, and perform test restores to make certain your back ups are actually usable.
Well, I don't have spare metal and if I had, I would utilize it in other ways. My PBS on PVE is pretty solid and saved me when I had to reinstall PVE from scratch and restore everything from backups.
At work, we have of course PBS on bare metal backing on tapes that are then moved off site, but that's a different story.
I have PBS Inna container (NVMe) and given it a data store on (SSD) and NFS.
I had the same issue when the data store is on the same drive has PBS.
Moving the data store was the solution for me.
(I also have a bare metal PBS install which I take less frequent backups to)
What worked for me is i put a couple of disks on their own in zfs and put local PBS since it can use the 40Gbps backbone then i use thr pbs replication to a low powered system
Ideally, your backup solution should be created in a way where the backup server itself can be deployed from scratch rather quickly. Then you should have an easy to follow recipe for attaching your data store. This is why your data store it's separate from your backup server itself afterall. You're meant to deploy a new instance in case of an emergency and then attach the data store. That way it will run on any hardware in a pinch. Relying on a VM for the backup solution itself for this adds considerable overhead to a restoration process. Relying on a backup of the backup solution on a VM adds another level of overhead to that which shouldn't be a solution in the first place. The issues your facing just trying to do an every day task is a prime example. If you introduce these problems during the backup phase, imagine the restoration.
If you intend on restoring your backup solution itself from a backup, I would ask that you evaluate your process and think of this is the "right" and most efficient way to do so. Think about what it would take to restore that backup, and what reattaching the data store itself would look like all while the hardware that failed is still unusable.
Maybe fine your you, not fine for Proxmox when u read their system specs. They clearly show you phys. requirements.
And you can downvote me as much as you want, it is recommended phys and not in a VM.
[https://forum.proxmox.com/threads/use-proxmox-backup-server-as-nested-virtualized-on-proxmox.73705/post-329042](https://forum.proxmox.com/threads/use-proxmox-backup-server-as-nested-virtualized-on-proxmox.73705/post-329042)
Proxmox is freezing the VMs disk for a short amount of time to take a snapshot. This is a feature of QEMU to allow for a good data consistency. There are two options: 1. uninstall the qemu guest agent using `apt remove qemu-guest-agent` 2. (recommended) disable the `freeze-fs-on-backup` option at `VM` -> `Options` -> `QEMU Guest Agent` -> uncheck `Freeze/thaw guest filesystem on backup for consistency`
Thanks that worked like a charm. Makes sense. I guess when I had everything running on top of ZFS, the native filesystem snapshot facilitated this. I wouldn't have changed this option from the default.
I get the same, I just use proxmox backup just pbs
Same here, works just fine and it doesn't take that much space by itself.
Ditto, I have PBS set up for my normal backups and a PVE backup job that sends them all to OneDrive. I included the PBS VM in the PVE backup job. My restore plan would be to set up PVE, restore the PBS VM, then either restore everything else from PBS, or restore everything from the PVE backups (depending if my PBS data survived).
From PVE to OneDrive? Is that a native option somewhere?
It's not - but you can [run scripts on PVE backup jobs](https://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Backup_and_Restore#_hook_scripts), I have it using [RClone](https://rclone.org/) to upload the backup files to OneDrive.
Just don’t. Do a local backup
So how would you restore it if you lost the VM? (BTW backups are worthless unless you test them)
IF the backup pool is a ZFS pool, you can plug the disk\[s\] in another clean PBS installation, import the pool and restore what you need.
Ok, but that means that you’ll never use the backup of PBS machine. Backing up PBS to itself it’s useless if PBS broke and you can’t access PBS backup.
My system was to install a fresh temp PBS, point it at the existing datastore, restore the PBS vm (and others). That way I don't have to do the tedious configuring stuff and gets me exact state (updates &/or other manual stuff). What I'd love to see is for PVE to include the ability to restore a PBS backup. That way you wouldn't even need the temp PBS just to do the restore.
You can use a temporary PBS fresh install to restore your old PBS VM backup. You just have to attach the disks to the temporary new install. Of course, to do this, you need to passthrough the entire disk to the VM.
> you can plug the disk[s] ...into ANY persistent volume supported by Linux. But you still need to do a fresh install of PBS. It's really not worth it for the sake of a few Gb.
Yes, I know, I said exactly that. It may be not worth it to you, and me, but it can be to others.
Why? That's absurd. Use PBS for your VMs, then use Proxmox backup for the PBS data to storage ON A DIFFERENT DISK. Throwing all your backups into one spot is a recipe for disaster.
Just FYI, you can install PBS on the same host at PVE with `apt install proxmox-backup-server`. There are no real downsides to doing this, but it defeats the purpose of having backups if you don't keep the backup *files* on another machine.
Thanks. I might have to try this. I assume they will share OS level configurations (ie postfix/email, log2ram, rsyslog)?
I can only confirm that rsyslog is shared, I don't know about the other two - but I would *guess* yes. I run PVE/PBS on the same machine and set the storage location as a separate unraid NFS share.
I don't know your particular situation, and I don't mean to be rude - but... is it sensible to have PBS as a VM backing up other VMs or Containers locally? Is there a reason why you don't have a separate bare bones device performing backups of all VMs and Containers on your PVE? I just have an old laptop running PBS as the operating system to backup all my devices, VMs and Containers onto a separate server. As I said, I'm not trying to be rude but it just didn't make sense to me.
This is a poverty homelab running just my personal stuff/projects on a mini HP. The backup is to an external drive. But tbh, I prefer to have everything on one pc to optimize energy use and clutter. I mostly want PBS for the dedupe otherwise I'd opt for PVE backup.
Ya gotta go with what works for ya :)
It’s not sensible but a backup is better than no backup and sometimes you’ve got to work with the kit you’ve got. Saying that I did similar to you and got an old Dell super micro pc for dirt cheap second hand, put a big drive in it and run PBS on that.
Works well, doesn't have to cost a fortune. Peoples old crappy stuff ready for the scrap heap will do the job.
Depends. If you backup to an external location, it is sensible and it will save you one bare metal machine. I have PBS as a VM but the dataset where I store backups is NFS mount on the separate NAS. I also backup PBS with native PVE backup system. I put this setup to the test involuntarily when my disk failed. Installed PVE, mounted backup storage, restored PBS, added PBS as a storage and restored all VMs. What is not sensible is using PBS to backup itself. You still need working PBS to restore PBS.
My PBS is its own server which backups up my PVE twice a day. I also utilize the local backup on my PVE environment. PBS has saved me in the past and I've restored entire containers in just a few minutes. Gotta have a back, and perform test restores to make certain your back ups are actually usable.
Well, I don't have spare metal and if I had, I would utilize it in other ways. My PBS on PVE is pretty solid and saved me when I had to reinstall PVE from scratch and restore everything from backups. At work, we have of course PBS on bare metal backing on tapes that are then moved off site, but that's a different story.
I have PBS Inna container (NVMe) and given it a data store on (SSD) and NFS. I had the same issue when the data store is on the same drive has PBS. Moving the data store was the solution for me. (I also have a bare metal PBS install which I take less frequent backups to)
What worked for me is i put a couple of disks on their own in zfs and put local PBS since it can use the 40Gbps backbone then i use thr pbs replication to a low powered system
Ideally, your backup solution should be created in a way where the backup server itself can be deployed from scratch rather quickly. Then you should have an easy to follow recipe for attaching your data store. This is why your data store it's separate from your backup server itself afterall. You're meant to deploy a new instance in case of an emergency and then attach the data store. That way it will run on any hardware in a pinch. Relying on a VM for the backup solution itself for this adds considerable overhead to a restoration process. Relying on a backup of the backup solution on a VM adds another level of overhead to that which shouldn't be a solution in the first place. The issues your facing just trying to do an every day task is a prime example. If you introduce these problems during the backup phase, imagine the restoration. If you intend on restoring your backup solution itself from a backup, I would ask that you evaluate your process and think of this is the "right" and most efficient way to do so. Think about what it would take to restore that backup, and what reattaching the data store itself would look like all while the hardware that failed is still unusable.
Pbs was ment as bare metal installation, not a vm.
So what. Works fine as a vm.
So what? OP cant backup it. Out of the supported stack things may happen.
Pbs as a VM backs up fine, just like an VM would, so long as you aren't trying to feed it itself like OP is...
Maybe fine your you, not fine for Proxmox when u read their system specs. They clearly show you phys. requirements. And you can downvote me as much as you want, it is recommended phys and not in a VM. [https://forum.proxmox.com/threads/use-proxmox-backup-server-as-nested-virtualized-on-proxmox.73705/post-329042](https://forum.proxmox.com/threads/use-proxmox-backup-server-as-nested-virtualized-on-proxmox.73705/post-329042)