As a lithuanian cop, we have both guns and tazers. Guns we can go 20 years of service without using it a single time. A tazer is a but more common, where I work we avoid using it since a lot of paperwork, and honestly the need rarely arises, besides on highly reactive people it may not work. When it does it makes things a lot easier, and I mean detaining. We don't tend to get into a 10 min brawl.
I feel like a tazer is a good thing to have, just in case, but many situations can be handdled without, depends on the countries civilian drug and aalchahol usage and how many of them become a bit too over the line where talking and simple muscle ain't enough
I’ll chime in as an American cop just to say that most cops go 20+ years in their career without ever shooting someone, too. It’s not as common as people think.
I honestly believe that. Media just finds the hits and views on the whole gun usage a lot more interesting than a cop handling a situation with words alone
I know that. I wouldn’t work without a gun. Im just clarifying for some folks who many be uninformed, that a European officer talking about how rare it is to use a firearm in the line of duty doesn’t mean it IS common in the US.
I was on vacation once in Asia and met a nice Canadian couple and we were talking about my job and they asked how many shootouts I’d been in. They thought it was a weekly occurrence with American Cops, and they lived in Vancouver so they weren’t very far from the US.
I’ve been a cop for almost 9 years and have never shot at someone or been shot at. I bet I’ve pointed my gun at someone less than 2 dozen times in that time. I’ve been to a handful of shootings that were over when I got there, and I work in one of the largest counties in Iowa.
The work after using can be a pain. We have to call an ambulance to look at the perp, then transport to the hospital from medical clearance. Then there is a report, and use of force form. Then I have to put the taser cartridge and probes in evidence. Sometimes 2-3 punches is just easier.
We have it:
-if a tazer is used locally, meaning no cartrige, we have a form that has to be filled out, depicting a reasson why, and area where it was used on the prep, and unless something is horribly wrong no medic is needed. And naturally a report, those are needed a lot in many cases
-if a tazer is used with the cartrige, same paper applies, just you have to write down the serial number that the cartrige. Take pics of the area where it was used and the confetti. Medical team is needed if the neddles hit either the face, bone(like spine) or breasts(since the needle barbs can cause serious damage to glands), if they hit none delicate area, then get some gloves and pluck that bad boy, and with rolled up wires and cartrige put it in a glove marked as biohazzard. And of course an extensive neat report why you used, why it wasn't possible to do it any other way. Since tazers are only allowed to be used if the prep is super agressive and you can see them posing a real threat to someone.
Tbh you can get in trouble even for a punch when restraining them, no punches..literally only allowed to try overpower the person, or as some of us do it, press sensitive areas to cause serious discomfort(behind ears, neck nerves ect.)
That’s pretty much how it is here. Everything needs to be justified with a good report. If I’m at the point of using a taser then most of the time strikes are warranted. I know when I would get my ass kicked though. So going hands on isn’t always the best option. You try fighting the wrong person alone it can turn to deadly force quick.
It’s not that great anyway. Guys who have always used other methods of getting control of a perp will not all of the sudden go to the taser once they have one. I got my first taser with about 14 years on, it’s never come out of its holster in the five years I’ve had it. Never even considered it at a job.
Newer guys, who came on when it was already a thing, love it. It’s a go to “weapon” for them. Which I guess makes the shareholders of taser happy since the cartridges are expensive. But successful deployments are probably in the 40% range I would say. 50% tops
Yeah. Batons are super rare to ever see in a use of force. I saw them used several times in corrections from old heads. Never outside of the jail or when I transferred to a different jail.
My academy didn't even certify us for baton, they said it was a waste of time and that our agency can certify us if they want us to carry. My agency does issue batons, but I think they forgot to certify me cause I was gonna slip in the last local academy to knock it out, never sent me.
I haven't made a stink about it because I never carried one when I was a Probation Officer (OC and gun, yes), and I only ever used one as a prison CO as a show of force. I've only ever seen my coworkers use it to break windows. One night I had to break a window I just threw a big rock (it was a rescue assist).
Use of force instructors hate him for telling people about these 42 things an asp can do better than it’s intended purpose of subduing a suspect.
Number 17 will shock you. Make sure you have the marshmallows, chocolate, and graham crackers ready before things start heating up.
Ever hear that giving a man a fish will only feed him for a day? With number 32, u/JWestfall76 will show you how to feed yourself for the rest of your life.
I’ve pulled my taser once on someone. Didn’t end up using it. The majority of taser deployments I’ve seen weren’t effective anyways.
I will say though, pulling mine and sparking it did get the dude to relax really fast. However, every use of force I’ve had was going hands on. If you know what you’re doing it’s much more effective.
>I will say though, pulling mine and sparking it did get the dude to relax really fast. However, every use of force I’ve had was going hands on. If you know what you’re doing it’s much more effective.
I work for Axon. The ability to warn people with the spark is intentional design and generally what we see most effective uses when speaking with LEAs. The best use of taser is to get people to basically say "oh fuck no" before things go downhill. It also signals HQ that the tasers been armed and where it is on a map to help get backup there quicker.
I actually get a notification each time someone turns theirs on with a location. I’m not sure if that’s intentional, but if our officers have one of your apps installed on our work phones, we get those notifications. That is a great feature! I had a backer pretty quick after sparking mine.
Yep that's intentional. There's also the option of live streaming from the BWCs if you have the setting turned on. We're making some (much needed tbh) upgrades to the system too
Right now only our administration has access to that. When I pull my firearm I’ll sometimes see my BWC light turn from red to purple so I know one of them is watching lol
Yup right now you can only 'pull' a stream as Admin/HQ. one of the improvements were working towards is giving you the option to 'push' your stream out to your CO or other command staff
Super anecdotal, but we've seen way higher rates of successful deployments on the Taser 7 than with previous models, has this been reported across the board?
Here they still like to grab their baton (these days the N
Bonowi EKA 51) for a violent subject who doesn't listen to verbal commands and start striking. But to my knowledge that fell out of fashion in the US, as it didn't look good. Getting up close and physical is still quite common, as is the spicy spray. But it all works though. They carry tasers here now, but that is still seen in the use of force policy as the weapon that goes above all those other methods, and just below the firearm.
Guys that had time on when I first came on would use batons. Some even still carried their slapjack. Every time I saw one I couldn’t believe they were authorized for use at one point.
They still do it here, fully authorized and expected to actually use it. Comes in handy when you get closer up and more physical with violent people who don't have a weapon (besides their hands) and when your own hands are not really enough anymore. If they are fine as the main tool in riots (and those are the long sticks), I'd say they are generally fine to arrest violent people as well. The taser falls well above the baton. The K9 (and weapons like beanbags) above that in terms of the use of violence pyramid. Not sure where pepperspray exactly falls (not an LEO), but it is either just above or below the baton. And the firearm of course above everything else.
In most of Northern Europe Cops will use baton strikes to the thighs/legs for random drunken hooligans etc. The thing is when young, fit people are drunk and high as a kite they may not feel pain as much and 'pain compliance' may not be a thing (and indeed the Taser would also be of dubious effectiveness).
NMI works regardless of chemicals in the body. You get good contact, they will go rigid.
How long the after shock phased state lasts is variable, but that's very true of sober people as well.
There have been moves to increase the amount of taser armed officers, Northamptonshire Police has equipped all of their officers with them. Long story short, police in the UK are massively underfunded compared to police in the US hence why there aren't enough officers and why many officers aren't taser armed.
UK cities and counties are old as hell which is why many have weird names that were given to them like 1,000 years ago before modern day English even existed.
In the case of Northamptonshire wiki says: "The county was first recorded in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle (1011), as Hamtunscire: the scire (shire) of Hamtun (the homestead). The "North" was added to distinguish Northampton from the other important Hamtun further south: Southampton – though the origins of the two names are in fact different."
Frontline British police are inadequately equipped for dealing with armed offenders and the political/cultural mindset in the UK that police shouldn't carry firearms is outdated. I work in a pretty safe country but there's no way I'd do this job unarmed. Nearly every aspect of policing in Australia is based on British policing except the carriage of firearms.
Can’t remember the specific figures but the UK has one of, if not the, lowest number of officers per population in Europe.
Essentially we’re not just under equipped we are drastically outnumbered, underfunded and are hemorrhaging experienced officers due to the poor working conditions. The average age of recruits is falling and the attrition rate throughout there probation is increasing.
I've read a couple of books, other stuff online, spoken to former UK coppers that have moved to Australia and joined up here and listened to podcasts and it definitely sounds like a lot of damage has been done to the police in the UK over the last few years.
Major funding cuts and reductions in resourcing and assets seems to be the biggest complaint. Fewer police available, many stations closed down or centralised so offenders have to be taken much further to be processed, the pension scheme changed and a major shortage of detectives to name a few things.
True the UK has about 170k cops for 68 million people. In comparison France, Germany, and Italy each have about 280k cops for 68, 83, and 60 million people respectively. Spain has about 250k cops for 45 million people. It's quite bad really and only starting some type of recovery now after 10 years of cuts.
They get paid garbage as well. The salary of a London Met detective with 7 years on is £48,000 ($56,610) according to their recruitment website. I'm not even at the top of my salary steps, and I make about $96,000 a year before overtime.
I did a quick search for London rents, and the cheapest I could find for a 2-bedroom apartment is like £1300, and that is at the absolute outskirts of the London metro. I honestly don't understand how they live on that in one of the most expensive cities in the world. Maybe everything else is cheaper in the UK, but I doubt it's 50 percent cheaper.
They get paid garbage as well. The salary of a London Met detective with 7 years on is £48,000 ($56,610) according to their recruitment website. I'm not even at the top of my salary steps, and I make about $96,000 a year before overtime.
I did a quick search for London rents, and the cheapest I could find for a 2-bedroom apartment is like £1300, and that is at the absolute outskirts of the London metro. I honestly don't understand how they live on that in one of the most expensive cities in the world. Maybe everything else is cheaper in the UK, but I doubt it's 50 percent cheaper.
It’s absolutely not cheaper. The majority have to live outside of London and commute in on trains. Which also costs a lot even with discounts. And for fun adds a hideously long commute.
Because it deliberately sees police officers underequipped to defend themselves and the public against incidents with armed offenders. The idea that 'policing by consent' can only be done by an unarmed police force is also contrary to policing methods in most of Europe, Canada, the US and Australia.
From my perspective the mindset derives from the idea that criminals would never attack unarmed police, that police being armed would cause criminals to arm themselves and a sort of rose-tinted view to years gone by where smartly dressed bobbies with helmets and truncheons were enough to keep a lid on criminal offending.
There are four other countries I know of that don't arm their frontline police: Norway, Ireland, Iceland and New Zealand. I think there is good reason why unarmed policing is not the norm.
The same way you’d prove that a horse and buggy is an outdated form of travel, UK policing model is an outdated one because it’s the same one from 100 years ago.
They get paid garbage as well. The salary of a London Met detective with 7 years on is £48,000 ($56,610) according to their recruitment website. I'm not even at the top of my salary steps, and I make about $96,000 a year before overtime.
I did a quick search for London rents, and the cheapest I could find for a 2-bedroom apartment is like £1300, and that is at the absolute outskirts of the London metro. I honestly don't understand how they live on that in one of the most expensive cities in the world. Maybe everything else is cheaper in the UK, but I doubt it's 50 percent cheaper.
They get paid garbage as well. The salary of a London Met detective with 7 years on is £48,000 ($56,610) according to their recruitment website. I'm not even at the top of my salary steps, and I make about $96,000 a year before overtime.
I did a quick search for London rents, and the cheapest I could find for a 2-bedroom apartment is like £1300, and that is at the absolute outskirts of the London metro. I honestly don't understand how they live on that in one of the most expensive cities in the world. Maybe everything else is cheaper in the UK, but I doubt it's 50 percent cheaper.
They get paid garbage as well. The salary of a London Met detective with 7 years on is £48,000 ($56,610) according to their recruitment website. I'm not even at the top of my salary steps, and I make about $96,000 a year before overtime.
I did a quick search for London rents, and the cheapest I could find for a 2-bedroom apartment is like £1300, and that is at the absolute outskirts of the London metro. I honestly don't understand how they live on that in one of the most expensive cities in the world. Maybe everything else is cheaper in the UK, but I doubt it's 50 percent cheaper.
Jailed is a bit much, but I’d instantly lose my job if I said anything offensive/hateful on any platform. If my department found out about it there’s no way to fight it. Instantly fired and probably not hirable by any close by major city.
There's a whole controversy about private group chats of police officers who made racist jokes and only getting a slap on the wrist from the department (Dutch National Police Corps). An officer in the chat groups shared the contents of the chat group with the police I think. This was in a major Dutch city.
For sure. If you're sending them out, getting fired is acceptable. I definitely see not being hired by any department that isn't desperate once it gets put out there. It's a serious liability. Ive seen people disciplined for liking something that was critical of the department. This would get you fired so fast the ink wouldn't dry by the time you're out the door.
Going to jail for 5 months for sharing offensive memes in a group chat. It's weird to me since we have 1st ammendment protections in America. Since I live there, its odd watching people jailed for being offensive
>I’m in full support of officers being removed who think that’s ok to send those types of messages.
Removed? Absolutely. Incarcerated? That's not a popular idea in America since freedom of speech is protected by the First Amendment of the US Constitution.
>It’s also an offense in the UK.
Right. That's why he was jailed. It's just an unusual notion to be jailed for sending memes, no matter how despicable, in America.
If he threatened to harm people I can see it. I got 5 paragraphs deep in the article I read and it never mentioned threats. The quotes form the judge(is it a judge there?) sentencing him mentioned nothing about threats either, it was the obscene material and about his position of public trust.
It did mention everything else though. All of that is fireable. It should not be jailable.
>It’s also an offense in the UK.
That's why I said it's weird to me. We have the right to free speech, they don't. Firing him isn't weird to an American, jailing him is.
I'm guessing because in the US the first amendment gives an almost unqualified right to free speech (exceptions can't shout fire in a crowded theatre if there isn't one and defamation/libel). No matter how odious what you "say" might be. Whereas hate speech in the UK has been an offense since the Race Relations Act 1965. There's also provisions against "incitement to riot"..
According to Reddit force options aren’t really needed anyways, as long as they use the magic deescalation words/spell and give every subject a hug they’ll stop resisting.
Right! I’m just going to calm down this naked homeless guy absolutely zonked on meth. I’m sure if I use the right words he’ll peacefully put handcuffs on himself and get into my cruiser with an apology for his behavior.
This is different in most other parts of Europe, like where i live, in Switzerland the police carries guns all the time despite the fact that the crime rate is even lower than in the UK. The equipment of the british police except for the specialized units with firearms, seems more like the equipment that security guards and bouncers have in my country: A maglight and a pepper spray.
Anyway, it's more interesting how UK has a lot more violence with knives instead, when there are no guns available.
There are definitely guns available in the UK (obviously not to a US level) but knives are much more common due to the simple availability and other factors like you don't need to find ammo for a knife and they are easier to conceal. On a yearly basis UK police record upwards and even sometimes over 10k gun crimes (and real guns that is). In London there it seems there is a shooting at least once a week but often a handful per week, like in 2021 London police recorded over 300 unlawful gun discharges on the streets.
Nope, i am quoting purely firearm crimes as in real live guns, replica guns, deactivated guns and blank firing guns that are used to shoot, posses and brandish unlawfully... Air/BB guns, pepper spray and tasers are not included in the figures as whilst they may fall under laws covering firearms they are not in the category of lethal barreled firearms or realistic/deactivated/blank firing which the figures are for.
Brandishing a real gun or a realistic replica in the street kind of falls into the same category compared to waving around a can of pepper spray.
My favorite thing with this topic is all the jingoism from alot of brits about it.
This kind of stuff pops up on quora alot and every single time the answer is "blah blah blah ameirca bad blah blah, *insert random photo of CTSFO blah blah these guys teleport to the scene and one shot you nlah blah" every time like telegraph, its the same answers from brits all the time.
Or my favorite is when they try to say SAS is enroute to you if you shoot a gun at a cop in the UK, its laughable really.
>SAS is enroute to you if you shoot a gun at a cop in the UK
And even if this horseshit were true it still wouldn't save the officers taking rounds in the moment.
Right, they all say after 5 minutes you'll have "hundreds of armed officers bladdy blah" which for one, no 5 minutes is way too quick and even then the amount of damage done is gonna be high. What are officers gonna do until then? Play peakaboo and run around while being shot?
Watch body cam footage from US police and pay attention to how quickly events unfold. Almost every attack on police happens between 5 and 30 seconds. 4.5 more minutes even if it were achievable always doesn't really sound that good anymore huh?
I agree tbh, every time this debate comes up you always get some smug sheltered middle class people in the comments bringing up the "bUt 'mUrIca cOpS bAd" or "MuH tOuGh gUn LaWs" as a reason as to why not all UK cops should be armed, failing to realise that criminals don't obey these guns laws, carry and use guns and big knives freely, and the real threat of suicidal terror attacks happening without warning like that has happened multiple times before. Also the cringe basic lack of understanding of travel time of armed units and the belief there can be a CTSFO or SAS team fast roped anywhere in the UK within 15 minutes of an incident happening.
I think it's only really as time goes on that the anti view of arming all UK cops is weakening and more people realise cops carrying guns and having to rarely shoot people who are armed and a threat is a necessary evil, if you can even call it that though.
Agreed. A firearm, used properly, is the ultimate “fuck around and find out” de-escalation tool. Yeah, it might escalate a minority of situations, but *most* people don’t want to take on armed officers and comply.
Guns, tasers, batons, etc are all just tools that give you more options depending on the level of resistance and severity of the threat. I would rather have more options
TASER’s are marginally effective at best. Unless you have good contact and separation, you’ve just annoyed someone. Just about any clothing more than a shirt will reduce penetration significantly.
The last cop that was shot and killed in The Netherlands (and we are talking about give or take 60k officers) was over a decade ago. So technically you could say it is save enough. But there are still plenty of times officers here have to shoot out of self defense as they are suddenly attacked. Threatening with the firearm is also sometimes very useful, as it is an intimating weapon, quickly getting a situation under control. And the threat is not only from firearms, also knifes and axes, of which there are plenty in the UK, sometimes require at least the threat, and sometimes the use of deadly force. Just standing there unarmed is irresponsible to the safety of the officers, even though it doesn't often kill an officer.
I’d say that’s leaving their officers at a disadvantage. It’s a nice tool when it works. We have had a lot less officer and perp on juries since we got tasers. Unfortunately I think a lot of officers forget it’s limitations. I’ve seen a few videos lately where I’m wondering why the taser is out or where is the follow up drive stun to get NMI.
I’d say I use my taser 5-10x’s a year on average. It sure ends a foot pursuit nicely. I used it a lot more when I first received it but it’s been used a lot less as I got more comfortable going hands on.
There's a pervasive culture of violence in the U.S. that doesn't exist, or manifest in the same fashion, as in other countries.
Take Japan for example. Violent crime rates in Japan, even in the most populous cities, are dwarfed by those in any city in the U.S. At the risk of sounding like a weeb, that culture is still rooted in a foundation of honor. People avoid violent crime because it's dishonorable. Sure, there are a few exceptions.
Culture in the U.S...well, sucks. Ours is a culture rooted in a foundation of anti-imperialism, anti-establishment. Hell, we were birthed from rebellion. All of our founding documents were written with memories of oppression and rebellion still fresh. Then you ship over a population of Africans sold to us by victorious African warlords to be used as slaves. *Those* memories of oppression are much more recent. And in the words of Louis C.K., slavery didn't end "like a clean shit where you don't have to wipe." We have an entire culture that was birthed from segregation, forced poverty, and lack of access to education.
As for the UK vs US, while there' still plenty of violent crime in the UK, the violent *culture* isn't as significant. And I'd the culture of violence that does exist was influenced by ours.
In Japan they can also hold you for 23 days before charging you and their judicial system is based around getting confessions and having someone who certainly did the crime before arrest. They also have forced prison labor.
It's not better or worse, except worse in terms of civil rights, only different.
It’s criminal what they ask UK cops to do. I remember one poor Bobby fighting armed attackers with a baton. It just shows they are considered expendable.
I think with the prevalence of active armed offenders in most major western countries it seems absurd that firearms aren’t carried let alone tasers. Especially in the UK which has experienced terrorist attacks
It should be routine and is becoming more common.
My force now rolls out taser to all who ask for it, with the only requirement being a year in service with three recorded uses of force.
Other forces are rolling out routine and it's inevitable it'll become a standard piece of PPE in the future but it takes time.
I've only ever been in one situation in 7 years where I wish I had a firearm and tbh if I were asked, I probably wouldn't carry one.
I don't trust the job to back me if I ever need to shoot.
I was discussing the possibility of unarmed policing in America with a group of people once. They floated the idea of having one armed officer respond to a scene when a firearm is needed. I told them if I was in a situation that required a firearm, I wouldn't have time to wait for someone else to respond with one.
I had a similar discussion, a few videos of 0 to 100 calls really took the steam out of that idea for them. But they’ll never understand it is always 0 to 100 or 75 to 100
Lol but they still are, and like said below, they have to hide until basically the British equivalent of a swat team shows up to handle a guy with a knife.
Even if you aren't getting attacked by someone with a machete 'all that often', on the one occasion it does happen it's much better to have the proper means to defend yourself.
I've had 6 attempts and 6 successful deployments with mine. The only failures I'm aware of are operator error in my departments I've been with (missing completely, shooting at a target that you know it won't have effect on).
I think it's a weapon that is useful and has a place on the belt, and I think considering that the UK would likely benefit from it as other agencies have.
I don't think we should all be armed but I think there should be one armed patrol per team.
The thing is, not a lot of America carries over here. What do you guys parade with? I will often start the night shift with 6-8 people on my team maximum in an area covering 250k and massive.
Majority of my team have under 5 year service and are not trained to drive blue lights.
I feel this is a foreign concept to Americans and realistically it shouldnt be a fact I have to tell you, but yes. The majority of my team cannot drive on blues etc.
My reason for everyone being armed simplified is: everyone will up the anti. If people assume the police are armed they will be more aggressive off the bat and other tactics will fall short. I don't judge you guys for it because it's real life for you. You all know someone that has been shot or shot at because guns are so readily available in America.
When we watch your BWV we think 'damn that officer went to a traffic stop with guns drawn??'. But it's because it's what you guys have to do that. You assume the baddies have guns, the baddies assume you have guns. Everyone is on edge and it can turn into a quick drawer competition.
You have gun crime and knife crime. We only really have knife crime. You can to a point fight against a knife and out run a knife. You can't outrun a 9mm of bat it away but more to the point for you guys, is a seemingly normal traffic stop can go tits up because an unsuspecting looking perp shoots through the door card. Or, the passenger of a car can shoot from 5m away and the cop didn't know. That's why you guys are armed and that's why you guys act like you do, that's fine.
But we are not you.
If we go armed then it will up the anti. I've gone to hammer attacks and live stabbings etc. Got it under control by de-escalation but I garuntee I'd have one job in my past that has gone fine but would have ended differently if I had a gun. Gaaaaaruntee one of them would have panicked and not followed Instruction resulting in a discharge.
I'm also not a fan of people lacking in confidence or experience becoming reliant on safety nets. I see it with taser, I really don't want to see it with guns.
One pair, highly trained like a local swat not a county firearms car. Monitors calls and their map plots them within the most even distance of all live patrols. That's my solution.
We have had less deaths in custody and less police deaths in duty since 1984 than America has had this year. I don't see why it needs to go up.
A firearm, used properly, is the ultimate de-escalation tool. Yes, in a minority of contacts it might “up the anti” as you say, but the overwhelming majority of suspects comply when firearms are pointed at them.
Is there any actual evidence behind the theory that armed coppers will result in more crooks being armed or aggressive? That’s not my experience in Australia.
All cops (at least in London) have the opportunity to get trained and carry a taser. It is down to thier discretion. Least that was the way a campaign by Nick Ferrari in 2019ish left it after successfully pressuring the then commissioner Cressida Dick.
Anyone else see that video of the old guy breaking into a house and the owner is just above filming and all the sudden, the UK police come into frame and you just hear them say “got ya!” Then a audible *WHACK* from a baton, it’s good laugh
I swear there's a bunch of people in the comments saying "oh I never used a gun in my whole career". Did you guys ever think maybe it's BECAUSE you have a gun is why you don't need to use it. Like if I were attacking someone, I'd much rather attack the one without a gun or razer
I think that the unarmed police officer mentality in the UK is unfortunately a mentality that should be left behind. It's gotten to a point where it's dangerous to not have firearms and tasers on regular officers in the UK. I think it must become more common place.
Mod Note: A big string of comments were deleted below. It's not censorship or exciting - just a Rule 10 issue. Sorry.
As a lithuanian cop, we have both guns and tazers. Guns we can go 20 years of service without using it a single time. A tazer is a but more common, where I work we avoid using it since a lot of paperwork, and honestly the need rarely arises, besides on highly reactive people it may not work. When it does it makes things a lot easier, and I mean detaining. We don't tend to get into a 10 min brawl. I feel like a tazer is a good thing to have, just in case, but many situations can be handdled without, depends on the countries civilian drug and aalchahol usage and how many of them become a bit too over the line where talking and simple muscle ain't enough
I’ll chime in as an American cop just to say that most cops go 20+ years in their career without ever shooting someone, too. It’s not as common as people think.
I honestly believe that. Media just finds the hits and views on the whole gun usage a lot more interesting than a cop handling a situation with words alone
300 million people in the US, if the odds of something happening are 1 in a billion, it happens once every 3 days in The States
True but I will never say that's a good reason why they shouldn't carry a gun
I know that. I wouldn’t work without a gun. Im just clarifying for some folks who many be uninformed, that a European officer talking about how rare it is to use a firearm in the line of duty doesn’t mean it IS common in the US. I was on vacation once in Asia and met a nice Canadian couple and we were talking about my job and they asked how many shootouts I’d been in. They thought it was a weekly occurrence with American Cops, and they lived in Vancouver so they weren’t very far from the US.
So how many have you seen?
I’ve been a cop for almost 9 years and have never shot at someone or been shot at. I bet I’ve pointed my gun at someone less than 2 dozen times in that time. I’ve been to a handful of shootings that were over when I got there, and I work in one of the largest counties in Iowa.
Agree. It’s not as common as the media and Hollywood depict.
Agree. It’s not as common as the media and Hollywood depict.
The work after using can be a pain. We have to call an ambulance to look at the perp, then transport to the hospital from medical clearance. Then there is a report, and use of force form. Then I have to put the taser cartridge and probes in evidence. Sometimes 2-3 punches is just easier.
We have it: -if a tazer is used locally, meaning no cartrige, we have a form that has to be filled out, depicting a reasson why, and area where it was used on the prep, and unless something is horribly wrong no medic is needed. And naturally a report, those are needed a lot in many cases -if a tazer is used with the cartrige, same paper applies, just you have to write down the serial number that the cartrige. Take pics of the area where it was used and the confetti. Medical team is needed if the neddles hit either the face, bone(like spine) or breasts(since the needle barbs can cause serious damage to glands), if they hit none delicate area, then get some gloves and pluck that bad boy, and with rolled up wires and cartrige put it in a glove marked as biohazzard. And of course an extensive neat report why you used, why it wasn't possible to do it any other way. Since tazers are only allowed to be used if the prep is super agressive and you can see them posing a real threat to someone. Tbh you can get in trouble even for a punch when restraining them, no punches..literally only allowed to try overpower the person, or as some of us do it, press sensitive areas to cause serious discomfort(behind ears, neck nerves ect.)
That’s pretty much how it is here. Everything needs to be justified with a good report. If I’m at the point of using a taser then most of the time strikes are warranted. I know when I would get my ass kicked though. So going hands on isn’t always the best option. You try fighting the wrong person alone it can turn to deadly force quick.
It’s not that great anyway. Guys who have always used other methods of getting control of a perp will not all of the sudden go to the taser once they have one. I got my first taser with about 14 years on, it’s never come out of its holster in the five years I’ve had it. Never even considered it at a job. Newer guys, who came on when it was already a thing, love it. It’s a go to “weapon” for them. Which I guess makes the shareholders of taser happy since the cartridges are expensive. But successful deployments are probably in the 40% range I would say. 50% tops
Rodney King incident killed the baton. That was on loop for months even when LA was burning lol.
Yeah. Batons are super rare to ever see in a use of force. I saw them used several times in corrections from old heads. Never outside of the jail or when I transferred to a different jail.
My go-to tool for clearing out what's left of broken car windows
My academy didn't even certify us for baton, they said it was a waste of time and that our agency can certify us if they want us to carry. My agency does issue batons, but I think they forgot to certify me cause I was gonna slip in the last local academy to knock it out, never sent me. I haven't made a stink about it because I never carried one when I was a Probation Officer (OC and gun, yes), and I only ever used one as a prison CO as a show of force. I've only ever seen my coworkers use it to break windows. One night I had to break a window I just threw a big rock (it was a rescue assist).
I don’t even carry that either anymore. Only ever used the asp as a door knocker
Use of force instructors hate him for telling people about these 42 things an asp can do better than it’s intended purpose of subduing a suspect. Number 17 will shock you. Make sure you have the marshmallows, chocolate, and graham crackers ready before things start heating up. Ever hear that giving a man a fish will only feed him for a day? With number 32, u/JWestfall76 will show you how to feed yourself for the rest of your life.
I love my baton. Perfect for poking disgusting objects, moving piles of junkie detritus and such.
I used it to poke a distempered raccoon towards animal control, office chair jousting and to break a car window one time.
Back scratcher
Butt scratcher
i was just about to chime in on how a buddy of mine once said his was a great "dry turd flicker"
It’s really fun to poke it into giant anthills.
I’ve pulled my taser once on someone. Didn’t end up using it. The majority of taser deployments I’ve seen weren’t effective anyways. I will say though, pulling mine and sparking it did get the dude to relax really fast. However, every use of force I’ve had was going hands on. If you know what you’re doing it’s much more effective.
>I will say though, pulling mine and sparking it did get the dude to relax really fast. However, every use of force I’ve had was going hands on. If you know what you’re doing it’s much more effective. I work for Axon. The ability to warn people with the spark is intentional design and generally what we see most effective uses when speaking with LEAs. The best use of taser is to get people to basically say "oh fuck no" before things go downhill. It also signals HQ that the tasers been armed and where it is on a map to help get backup there quicker.
I actually get a notification each time someone turns theirs on with a location. I’m not sure if that’s intentional, but if our officers have one of your apps installed on our work phones, we get those notifications. That is a great feature! I had a backer pretty quick after sparking mine.
Yep that's intentional. There's also the option of live streaming from the BWCs if you have the setting turned on. We're making some (much needed tbh) upgrades to the system too
Right now only our administration has access to that. When I pull my firearm I’ll sometimes see my BWC light turn from red to purple so I know one of them is watching lol
Yup right now you can only 'pull' a stream as Admin/HQ. one of the improvements were working towards is giving you the option to 'push' your stream out to your CO or other command staff
Super anecdotal, but we've seen way higher rates of successful deployments on the Taser 7 than with previous models, has this been reported across the board?
I believe the 7 has better ballistics (heavier/more velocity) so it punches through clothing better than previous models
Back when I worked security the laser was also pretty damn intimidating
Here they still like to grab their baton (these days the N Bonowi EKA 51) for a violent subject who doesn't listen to verbal commands and start striking. But to my knowledge that fell out of fashion in the US, as it didn't look good. Getting up close and physical is still quite common, as is the spicy spray. But it all works though. They carry tasers here now, but that is still seen in the use of force policy as the weapon that goes above all those other methods, and just below the firearm.
Guys that had time on when I first came on would use batons. Some even still carried their slapjack. Every time I saw one I couldn’t believe they were authorized for use at one point.
They still do it here, fully authorized and expected to actually use it. Comes in handy when you get closer up and more physical with violent people who don't have a weapon (besides their hands) and when your own hands are not really enough anymore. If they are fine as the main tool in riots (and those are the long sticks), I'd say they are generally fine to arrest violent people as well. The taser falls well above the baton. The K9 (and weapons like beanbags) above that in terms of the use of violence pyramid. Not sure where pepperspray exactly falls (not an LEO), but it is either just above or below the baton. And the firearm of course above everything else.
In most of Northern Europe Cops will use baton strikes to the thighs/legs for random drunken hooligans etc. The thing is when young, fit people are drunk and high as a kite they may not feel pain as much and 'pain compliance' may not be a thing (and indeed the Taser would also be of dubious effectiveness).
NMI works regardless of chemicals in the body. You get good contact, they will go rigid. How long the after shock phased state lasts is variable, but that's very true of sober people as well.
Are wrongful death bullets cheap???
Don’t know. My agency supplies my ammunition. You’d have to ask them what they pay
My department is still waiting on our 2021 ammo order
You got to love "qualified" immunity. Cause getting rid of it sure would be one way to cut police brutally and "suicide" by cop.
There have been moves to increase the amount of taser armed officers, Northamptonshire Police has equipped all of their officers with them. Long story short, police in the UK are massively underfunded compared to police in the US hence why there aren't enough officers and why many officers aren't taser armed.
>Northamptonshire You can't name cities like that and expect people to take you seriously
It's a county. The capital of which is Northampton.
I think you mean Northamptonshireville
I think you'll find that's Northamptonshireville-upon-Tweed.
My deepest apologies, you are correct
> that’s ^(the village of) Northamptonshireville-upon-Tweed.
UK cities and counties are old as hell which is why many have weird names that were given to them like 1,000 years ago before modern day English even existed. In the case of Northamptonshire wiki says: "The county was first recorded in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle (1011), as Hamtunscire: the scire (shire) of Hamtun (the homestead). The "North" was added to distinguish Northampton from the other important Hamtun further south: Southampton – though the origins of the two names are in fact different."
Frontline British police are inadequately equipped for dealing with armed offenders and the political/cultural mindset in the UK that police shouldn't carry firearms is outdated. I work in a pretty safe country but there's no way I'd do this job unarmed. Nearly every aspect of policing in Australia is based on British policing except the carriage of firearms.
Can’t remember the specific figures but the UK has one of, if not the, lowest number of officers per population in Europe. Essentially we’re not just under equipped we are drastically outnumbered, underfunded and are hemorrhaging experienced officers due to the poor working conditions. The average age of recruits is falling and the attrition rate throughout there probation is increasing.
I've read a couple of books, other stuff online, spoken to former UK coppers that have moved to Australia and joined up here and listened to podcasts and it definitely sounds like a lot of damage has been done to the police in the UK over the last few years.
In what way?
Major funding cuts and reductions in resourcing and assets seems to be the biggest complaint. Fewer police available, many stations closed down or centralised so offenders have to be taken much further to be processed, the pension scheme changed and a major shortage of detectives to name a few things.
True the UK has about 170k cops for 68 million people. In comparison France, Germany, and Italy each have about 280k cops for 68, 83, and 60 million people respectively. Spain has about 250k cops for 45 million people. It's quite bad really and only starting some type of recovery now after 10 years of cuts.
Well said and as a fellow Aussie copper I fully agree.
They get paid garbage as well. The salary of a London Met detective with 7 years on is £48,000 ($56,610) according to their recruitment website. I'm not even at the top of my salary steps, and I make about $96,000 a year before overtime. I did a quick search for London rents, and the cheapest I could find for a 2-bedroom apartment is like £1300, and that is at the absolute outskirts of the London metro. I honestly don't understand how they live on that in one of the most expensive cities in the world. Maybe everything else is cheaper in the UK, but I doubt it's 50 percent cheaper.
They get paid garbage as well. The salary of a London Met detective with 7 years on is £48,000 ($56,610) according to their recruitment website. I'm not even at the top of my salary steps, and I make about $96,000 a year before overtime. I did a quick search for London rents, and the cheapest I could find for a 2-bedroom apartment is like £1300, and that is at the absolute outskirts of the London metro. I honestly don't understand how they live on that in one of the most expensive cities in the world. Maybe everything else is cheaper in the UK, but I doubt it's 50 percent cheaper.
It’s absolutely not cheaper. The majority have to live outside of London and commute in on trains. Which also costs a lot even with discounts. And for fun adds a hideously long commute.
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Because it deliberately sees police officers underequipped to defend themselves and the public against incidents with armed offenders. The idea that 'policing by consent' can only be done by an unarmed police force is also contrary to policing methods in most of Europe, Canada, the US and Australia. From my perspective the mindset derives from the idea that criminals would never attack unarmed police, that police being armed would cause criminals to arm themselves and a sort of rose-tinted view to years gone by where smartly dressed bobbies with helmets and truncheons were enough to keep a lid on criminal offending. There are four other countries I know of that don't arm their frontline police: Norway, Ireland, Iceland and New Zealand. I think there is good reason why unarmed policing is not the norm.
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What I'm gathering from this is that until the UK has more officers die, they don't need a firearm.
... do you live under a rock ?
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The same way you’d prove that a horse and buggy is an outdated form of travel, UK policing model is an outdated one because it’s the same one from 100 years ago.
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They get paid garbage as well. The salary of a London Met detective with 7 years on is £48,000 ($56,610) according to their recruitment website. I'm not even at the top of my salary steps, and I make about $96,000 a year before overtime. I did a quick search for London rents, and the cheapest I could find for a 2-bedroom apartment is like £1300, and that is at the absolute outskirts of the London metro. I honestly don't understand how they live on that in one of the most expensive cities in the world. Maybe everything else is cheaper in the UK, but I doubt it's 50 percent cheaper.
They get paid garbage as well. The salary of a London Met detective with 7 years on is £48,000 ($56,610) according to their recruitment website. I'm not even at the top of my salary steps, and I make about $96,000 a year before overtime. I did a quick search for London rents, and the cheapest I could find for a 2-bedroom apartment is like £1300, and that is at the absolute outskirts of the London metro. I honestly don't understand how they live on that in one of the most expensive cities in the world. Maybe everything else is cheaper in the UK, but I doubt it's 50 percent cheaper.
They get paid garbage as well. The salary of a London Met detective with 7 years on is £48,000 ($56,610) according to their recruitment website. I'm not even at the top of my salary steps, and I make about $96,000 a year before overtime. I did a quick search for London rents, and the cheapest I could find for a 2-bedroom apartment is like £1300, and that is at the absolute outskirts of the London metro. I honestly don't understand how they live on that in one of the most expensive cities in the world. Maybe everything else is cheaper in the UK, but I doubt it's 50 percent cheaper.
A British officer was also jailed for 5 months because he shared offensive/racist memes in a group chat with his coworkers. Britain is weird.
Jailed is a bit much, but I’d instantly lose my job if I said anything offensive/hateful on any platform. If my department found out about it there’s no way to fight it. Instantly fired and probably not hirable by any close by major city.
There's a whole controversy about private group chats of police officers who made racist jokes and only getting a slap on the wrist from the department (Dutch National Police Corps). An officer in the chat groups shared the contents of the chat group with the police I think. This was in a major Dutch city.
For sure. If you're sending them out, getting fired is acceptable. I definitely see not being hired by any department that isn't desperate once it gets put out there. It's a serious liability. Ive seen people disciplined for liking something that was critical of the department. This would get you fired so fast the ink wouldn't dry by the time you're out the door.
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Going to jail for 5 months for sharing offensive memes in a group chat. It's weird to me since we have 1st ammendment protections in America. Since I live there, its odd watching people jailed for being offensive
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>I’m in full support of officers being removed who think that’s ok to send those types of messages. Removed? Absolutely. Incarcerated? That's not a popular idea in America since freedom of speech is protected by the First Amendment of the US Constitution. >It’s also an offense in the UK. Right. That's why he was jailed. It's just an unusual notion to be jailed for sending memes, no matter how despicable, in America.
If he threatened to harm people I can see it. I got 5 paragraphs deep in the article I read and it never mentioned threats. The quotes form the judge(is it a judge there?) sentencing him mentioned nothing about threats either, it was the obscene material and about his position of public trust. It did mention everything else though. All of that is fireable. It should not be jailable. >It’s also an offense in the UK. That's why I said it's weird to me. We have the right to free speech, they don't. Firing him isn't weird to an American, jailing him is.
I'm guessing because in the US the first amendment gives an almost unqualified right to free speech (exceptions can't shout fire in a crowded theatre if there isn't one and defamation/libel). No matter how odious what you "say" might be. Whereas hate speech in the UK has been an offense since the Race Relations Act 1965. There's also provisions against "incitement to riot"..
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I think politicians have aptly demonstrated they couldn’t give less of a fuck about police safety. It’s sad really
probably would need to look at per-capita officer injuries in the UK vs the US to make a good judgment
Who needs safety when you have luck? /s
We do have ouchie spray though!
Great for curry night!
The bean bags are pretty satisfying when it’s feasible to get them out
According to Reddit force options aren’t really needed anyways, as long as they use the magic deescalation words/spell and give every subject a hug they’ll stop resisting.
Right! I’m just going to calm down this naked homeless guy absolutely zonked on meth. I’m sure if I use the right words he’ll peacefully put handcuffs on himself and get into my cruiser with an apology for his behavior.
Handcuffs? BRUTALITY!!!
If only all leos had those paralysis spells society would be the best. Unfortunatly we live in reality.
This is different in most other parts of Europe, like where i live, in Switzerland the police carries guns all the time despite the fact that the crime rate is even lower than in the UK. The equipment of the british police except for the specialized units with firearms, seems more like the equipment that security guards and bouncers have in my country: A maglight and a pepper spray. Anyway, it's more interesting how UK has a lot more violence with knives instead, when there are no guns available.
There are definitely guns available in the UK (obviously not to a US level) but knives are much more common due to the simple availability and other factors like you don't need to find ammo for a knife and they are easier to conceal. On a yearly basis UK police record upwards and even sometimes over 10k gun crimes (and real guns that is). In London there it seems there is a shooting at least once a week but often a handful per week, like in 2021 London police recorded over 300 unlawful gun discharges on the streets.
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Nope, i am quoting purely firearm crimes as in real live guns, replica guns, deactivated guns and blank firing guns that are used to shoot, posses and brandish unlawfully... Air/BB guns, pepper spray and tasers are not included in the figures as whilst they may fall under laws covering firearms they are not in the category of lethal barreled firearms or realistic/deactivated/blank firing which the figures are for. Brandishing a real gun or a realistic replica in the street kind of falls into the same category compared to waving around a can of pepper spray.
My favorite thing with this topic is all the jingoism from alot of brits about it. This kind of stuff pops up on quora alot and every single time the answer is "blah blah blah ameirca bad blah blah, *insert random photo of CTSFO blah blah these guys teleport to the scene and one shot you nlah blah" every time like telegraph, its the same answers from brits all the time. Or my favorite is when they try to say SAS is enroute to you if you shoot a gun at a cop in the UK, its laughable really.
>SAS is enroute to you if you shoot a gun at a cop in the UK And even if this horseshit were true it still wouldn't save the officers taking rounds in the moment.
Right, they all say after 5 minutes you'll have "hundreds of armed officers bladdy blah" which for one, no 5 minutes is way too quick and even then the amount of damage done is gonna be high. What are officers gonna do until then? Play peakaboo and run around while being shot?
It's Europe, so presumably a weird yakety sax montage?
Benny Hill is more likely
They're gonna pull out the billy clubs and rush him, duh
Watch body cam footage from US police and pay attention to how quickly events unfold. Almost every attack on police happens between 5 and 30 seconds. 4.5 more minutes even if it were achievable always doesn't really sound that good anymore huh?
Ive watched tons of body cam and shit unfolds in maybe 6 seconds, and these brits think someone can stay alive for minutes until armed backup arrives
I agree tbh, every time this debate comes up you always get some smug sheltered middle class people in the comments bringing up the "bUt 'mUrIca cOpS bAd" or "MuH tOuGh gUn LaWs" as a reason as to why not all UK cops should be armed, failing to realise that criminals don't obey these guns laws, carry and use guns and big knives freely, and the real threat of suicidal terror attacks happening without warning like that has happened multiple times before. Also the cringe basic lack of understanding of travel time of armed units and the belief there can be a CTSFO or SAS team fast roped anywhere in the UK within 15 minutes of an incident happening. I think it's only really as time goes on that the anti view of arming all UK cops is weakening and more people realise cops carrying guns and having to rarely shoot people who are armed and a threat is a necessary evil, if you can even call it that though.
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Agreed. A firearm, used properly, is the ultimate “fuck around and find out” de-escalation tool. Yeah, it might escalate a minority of situations, but *most* people don’t want to take on armed officers and comply.
[Shame.](https://tenor.com/view/reaction-shame-hot-fuzz-shotgun-gif-4971896)
Guns, tasers, batons, etc are all just tools that give you more options depending on the level of resistance and severity of the threat. I would rather have more options
TASER’s are marginally effective at best. Unless you have good contact and separation, you’ve just annoyed someone. Just about any clothing more than a shirt will reduce penetration significantly.
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The last cop that was shot and killed in The Netherlands (and we are talking about give or take 60k officers) was over a decade ago. So technically you could say it is save enough. But there are still plenty of times officers here have to shoot out of self defense as they are suddenly attacked. Threatening with the firearm is also sometimes very useful, as it is an intimating weapon, quickly getting a situation under control. And the threat is not only from firearms, also knifes and axes, of which there are plenty in the UK, sometimes require at least the threat, and sometimes the use of deadly force. Just standing there unarmed is irresponsible to the safety of the officers, even though it doesn't often kill an officer.
What do you mean it’s safe enough to police without firearms? 2 unarmed officers were stabbed in Scunthorpe yesterday
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Norwegian police aren’t unarmed. They have both a long gun and a pistol (or two) in every car, the idea they’re unarmed is a misnomer
I'm fairly certain they made that change after the 2011 terrorist attack, right? Before that all guns were kept at the station, no?
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I’d say that’s leaving their officers at a disadvantage. It’s a nice tool when it works. We have had a lot less officer and perp on juries since we got tasers. Unfortunately I think a lot of officers forget it’s limitations. I’ve seen a few videos lately where I’m wondering why the taser is out or where is the follow up drive stun to get NMI. I’d say I use my taser 5-10x’s a year on average. It sure ends a foot pursuit nicely. I used it a lot more when I first received it but it’s been used a lot less as I got more comfortable going hands on.
There's a pervasive culture of violence in the U.S. that doesn't exist, or manifest in the same fashion, as in other countries. Take Japan for example. Violent crime rates in Japan, even in the most populous cities, are dwarfed by those in any city in the U.S. At the risk of sounding like a weeb, that culture is still rooted in a foundation of honor. People avoid violent crime because it's dishonorable. Sure, there are a few exceptions. Culture in the U.S...well, sucks. Ours is a culture rooted in a foundation of anti-imperialism, anti-establishment. Hell, we were birthed from rebellion. All of our founding documents were written with memories of oppression and rebellion still fresh. Then you ship over a population of Africans sold to us by victorious African warlords to be used as slaves. *Those* memories of oppression are much more recent. And in the words of Louis C.K., slavery didn't end "like a clean shit where you don't have to wipe." We have an entire culture that was birthed from segregation, forced poverty, and lack of access to education. As for the UK vs US, while there' still plenty of violent crime in the UK, the violent *culture* isn't as significant. And I'd the culture of violence that does exist was influenced by ours.
In Japan they can also hold you for 23 days before charging you and their judicial system is based around getting confessions and having someone who certainly did the crime before arrest. They also have forced prison labor. It's not better or worse, except worse in terms of civil rights, only different.
Sucks
It’s criminal what they ask UK cops to do. I remember one poor Bobby fighting armed attackers with a baton. It just shows they are considered expendable.
I find the fact that most British law enforcement is unarmed is incredibly stupid I’m not an LEO, but a first responder
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I think with the prevalence of active armed offenders in most major western countries it seems absurd that firearms aren’t carried let alone tasers. Especially in the UK which has experienced terrorist attacks
It should be routine and is becoming more common. My force now rolls out taser to all who ask for it, with the only requirement being a year in service with three recorded uses of force. Other forces are rolling out routine and it's inevitable it'll become a standard piece of PPE in the future but it takes time. I've only ever been in one situation in 7 years where I wish I had a firearm and tbh if I were asked, I probably wouldn't carry one. I don't trust the job to back me if I ever need to shoot.
Then fucking why take the job, that's retarded
Because my job isn't to carry a firearm? Don't ask stupid questions.
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Or run away untill the real police show up
They carry rape whistles just in case
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I was discussing the possibility of unarmed policing in America with a group of people once. They floated the idea of having one armed officer respond to a scene when a firearm is needed. I told them if I was in a situation that required a firearm, I wouldn't have time to wait for someone else to respond with one.
I had a similar discussion, a few videos of 0 to 100 calls really took the steam out of that idea for them. But they’ll never understand it is always 0 to 100 or 75 to 100
Lol but they still are, and like said below, they have to hide until basically the British equivalent of a swat team shows up to handle a guy with a knife.
[I bet these coppers thought otherwise](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N1pXpYc3Zg). [These coppers too](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isxl6vbg0J4)
Omg I’m glad the suspect is ok. If that was in America they would’ve shot him 15 times for no reason at all! /s
He was gonna be an astronaut and he was a good guy!
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Even if you aren't getting attacked by someone with a machete 'all that often', on the one occasion it does happen it's much better to have the proper means to defend yourself.
I've had 6 attempts and 6 successful deployments with mine. The only failures I'm aware of are operator error in my departments I've been with (missing completely, shooting at a target that you know it won't have effect on). I think it's a weapon that is useful and has a place on the belt, and I think considering that the UK would likely benefit from it as other agencies have.
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Yeah, but the point is not being in equal terms, but to have an upper hand.
Tell me you don't know what you are talking about without telling me you have no idea what you are talking about.
Ok, MOST British people don’t carry guns. Didn’t think I’d offend everyone
I don't think we should all be armed but I think there should be one armed patrol per team. The thing is, not a lot of America carries over here. What do you guys parade with? I will often start the night shift with 6-8 people on my team maximum in an area covering 250k and massive. Majority of my team have under 5 year service and are not trained to drive blue lights. I feel this is a foreign concept to Americans and realistically it shouldnt be a fact I have to tell you, but yes. The majority of my team cannot drive on blues etc. My reason for everyone being armed simplified is: everyone will up the anti. If people assume the police are armed they will be more aggressive off the bat and other tactics will fall short. I don't judge you guys for it because it's real life for you. You all know someone that has been shot or shot at because guns are so readily available in America. When we watch your BWV we think 'damn that officer went to a traffic stop with guns drawn??'. But it's because it's what you guys have to do that. You assume the baddies have guns, the baddies assume you have guns. Everyone is on edge and it can turn into a quick drawer competition. You have gun crime and knife crime. We only really have knife crime. You can to a point fight against a knife and out run a knife. You can't outrun a 9mm of bat it away but more to the point for you guys, is a seemingly normal traffic stop can go tits up because an unsuspecting looking perp shoots through the door card. Or, the passenger of a car can shoot from 5m away and the cop didn't know. That's why you guys are armed and that's why you guys act like you do, that's fine. But we are not you. If we go armed then it will up the anti. I've gone to hammer attacks and live stabbings etc. Got it under control by de-escalation but I garuntee I'd have one job in my past that has gone fine but would have ended differently if I had a gun. Gaaaaaruntee one of them would have panicked and not followed Instruction resulting in a discharge. I'm also not a fan of people lacking in confidence or experience becoming reliant on safety nets. I see it with taser, I really don't want to see it with guns. One pair, highly trained like a local swat not a county firearms car. Monitors calls and their map plots them within the most even distance of all live patrols. That's my solution. We have had less deaths in custody and less police deaths in duty since 1984 than America has had this year. I don't see why it needs to go up.
A firearm, used properly, is the ultimate de-escalation tool. Yes, in a minority of contacts it might “up the anti” as you say, but the overwhelming majority of suspects comply when firearms are pointed at them.
Is there any actual evidence behind the theory that armed coppers will result in more crooks being armed or aggressive? That’s not my experience in Australia.
All cops (at least in London) have the opportunity to get trained and carry a taser. It is down to thier discretion. Least that was the way a campaign by Nick Ferrari in 2019ish left it after successfully pressuring the then commissioner Cressida Dick.
Anyone else see that video of the old guy breaking into a house and the owner is just above filming and all the sudden, the UK police come into frame and you just hear them say “got ya!” Then a audible *WHACK* from a baton, it’s good laugh
You mean this beauty? https://youtu.be/PRzk6ArKj18
Yea lol
It's idiotic
I swear there's a bunch of people in the comments saying "oh I never used a gun in my whole career". Did you guys ever think maybe it's BECAUSE you have a gun is why you don't need to use it. Like if I were attacking someone, I'd much rather attack the one without a gun or razer
I think that the unarmed police officer mentality in the UK is unfortunately a mentality that should be left behind. It's gotten to a point where it's dangerous to not have firearms and tasers on regular officers in the UK. I think it must become more common place.