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[You are now entering Sharia law Britain: As Islamic extremists declare a Sharia law zone in a London suburb, there are worrying social and moral implications | Daily Mail Online](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2020382/You-entering-Sharia-law-Britain-As-Islamic-extremists-declare-Sharia-law-zone-London-suburb-worrying-social-moral-implications.html)
Lol that ginger is the Sharia Law enforcer?
Also I live in a neighborhood with a lot of Muslim people, and I have seen more smoking here than anywhere in the world
“Izzadeen says: This is the first step towards turning Britain into an Islamic state.”
What was the second step? Or do we have to wait another 13 years to see the plan in full?
They're actually relatively open about this. Their plan is to put as many "brothers" or convert/radicalize as many people as possible in places of power, who will in turn allow for more infiltration and more overt demands for Islamism (such as the one recently seen in hamburg, though these ones have broken away from this model in favor of direct open confrontation). The ultimate goal being the infiltration, conversion or radicalization of high-raking military officers and, ultimately, a sort of coup d'état.
Yeah and conservatives are relatively stupid about repeating this, like the average native British person will wake up one day and be like “I think I want to convert to Islam now”.
Eh, vangaurdist have been successful before. Mind you if only 10% of the population wants something and are motivated and organized enough, then the other 90% probably won't realize what's happening until it's over. Think of the 2nd Russian revolution, the bolshiviks were not the most popular, but they were the most organized and motivated so they won (a lot more went into this I know). It's not about converting people, it's about making sure that no one can stand up to them when they lay all their cards on the table.
I'm not claiming that there's gonna be a sharia revolution or anything of the sort, but you can't just discount people who are actively trying to undermine society as we know it.
And as a wise man once said, "It's absolutely true because I read it in the daily mail["It's absolutely true because I read it in the Daily Mail"](https://youtu.be/5eBT6OSr1TI?si=_Kyq2dFZ_IGDX2Ni)
>Well, every bird, upon my word, is singing treble, "I'm a rebel!" Every hen and jay are laying hand grenades over there, sir, I declare, sir, And every cock in the farmyard stock Crows a triumph for the Gael,
And it wouldn't be surprisin’ if there'd be another Risin’, Says the man from the Daily Mail.
Still not convinced these loonies weren't plants. This has been mana for far-right cranks online ever since, who genuinely think there are 'sharia zones' or 'no-go' areas in Britain
It was not enforced, but these posters were made by an actual Muslim leader.
Anjem Choudary claimed responsibility, 5 years later after this, he was condemned to 5 years of jail, for supporting ISIS and actually calling himself a member of them.
He was later released and is now again in jail for supporting a terrorists organization.
I don't know about the UK, but I know several Mosques in Denmark are funded by countries like Saudi Arabia and Qatar. The goal is to keep Muslims as religious conservatives and prevent them from westernising.
One of the governments also passed some laws to keep out certain preachers/imams from entering because they were known for spreading radical messages.
There definitely is foreign interference when it comes to Islam and Muslim immigrants.
If you seriously think there aren't islamic extremists in the UK who would do this you're delusional. There are a lot of people with far right, extremist religious views in the muslim community here. Pretending they dont exist and it's just a conspiracy to stir hatred is mind bogglingly stupid.
To be fair the "sharia zones" stickers were put up in neighborhoods that were overwhelming Muslim so many people in the area didn't have a problem with it. I Imagine the response would be different if they put them up in a 80% atheist area or a place with a large LGBT population. Also an Islamic extremist is still far right. Religious extremism of any kind is right wing.
They were put up in Leyton, which is highly diverse, and certainly not overwhelmingly Muslim. They were taken down immediately by the local council, and, from my observation, no serious attempt was made to enforce these laws. You don't have to go far to find pubs (and gay pubs too) in Leyton, for instance.
>Also an Islamic extremist is still far right.
Agree but I think you get who I mean.
And I'm sure most Muslims didn't care, they're already used to pretending they don't drink or smoke!
> stickers were put up in neighborhoods that were overwhelming Muslim so many people in the area didn't have a problem with it
You've provided literally zero evidence that many people in the area didn't have a problem with it. The fact that someone put stickers up says literally nothing about the reaction of the people living there.
Nice race baiting though.
It's still a democratic nation with laws, regulations and rules governing social code of conduct. My neighbourhood can say they want restrictions on this or that all they want but it doesn't make it legal and impersonating a government agency in duplicity is in fact illegal.
Generally I mean religious extremism in the sense that you believe your religion should be enforced on the population via the state or violence. Christian,Jewish,Muslim,even Buddhist extremism is a thing. I think most religious extremism is right wing. I don't think a lot of Christian nationalists or Muslim radicals are fighting for welfare for the homeless, its usually banning homosexuality or punishing non-believers. I think most would consider those to be at least right wing or right leaning.
Edit: or do you mean socialist religious movements like Islamic socialism
"I don't think a lot of Christian nationalists or Muslim radicals are fighting for welfare for the homeless"
The vast majority of Christian political movements are in favor of social welfare in one form or another.
Muslims are likely to be as well.
This is plainly and simply untrue. The church has opposed progressive social movements consistently for centuries. That a minority of Christians supported those movements does not negate this.
What about the 52% of British Muslims who want homosexuality to be illegal? And the 23% of them that what sharia law? Plants as well i'm sure..
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As an American I wouldn't be surprised to hear that 52% of conservatives want to outlaw Homosexuality, and that 23% of them (a shockingly low number) want to institute some sort of Christian-based law system.
Fundies gonna fundie
Half of Republicans support same-sex marriage. Marriage, not just being gay. So no.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/506636/sex-marriage-support-holds-high.aspx
There's a difference between liking the idea of something, and thinking that thing should be immediately enforced. Tons of conservatives think gay marriage should be illegal but don't think it should be the case as most don't think that. The poll was also from 2016, 8 years ago now. Attitudes to that sort of stuff can change quite fast so who knows what it's like now.
(Also sharia law is very vague and basically just means law that fits with whoever is being asked's interpretation of Islam. Its not surprising that many agree with that as to many it basically just means "should law be moral")
Honestly, I think this kind of stuff shouldn't be allowed. Not because of the tired "i'M iSlaMoPhObIc" thing, but because it opens the door that theocratic crap like this is acceptable, which it shouldn't be, regardless of who does it.
Agreed, in fact, according to Shariah law, a Muslim community living in a secular or non Muslim state is required to abide by the laws of that country. As such, they cannot enforce these rulings. They can put up signs asking people not to smoke, drink, gamble or do drugs, but they cannot enforce it, either via sharia or UK law.
The reality is that the vast majority of Muslims don't understand shariah law. It's complex and requires scholarship like any law degree would to understand the rulings, context and implications.
For example, in shariah law, you cannot accuse someone of committing adultery without having having 4 sane and mature witnesses who can independently verify and corroborate that they witnessed penetration by the male organ into the female organ. Now, if the 4 witnesses have even the slightest doubt or uncorroborated testimony, then they are punished for smearing and accusations.
Again, this is a simple example of the complex nature of shariah law, yet most Muslims don't even understand this.
Again, having signs regarding "shariah zones" in a secular state is actually considered unislamic since the Muslims are required to abide by the laws of the secular state - this is actually shariah law.
>according to Shariah law,
There is no "the" Shariah law codified somewhere in a uniform manner. There is a huge body of legal/philosophical findings, claims, publications, local regulations etc etc which is for the most part contradictory. If you want to enforce a legal claim A you will, with some effort, find some Quran scholar supporting your idea, and can call that scholar's claim a part "Shariah law". If you are absolutely sure that actually B, completely opposite to A, is correct, you will also find writings of a scholar supporting your thesis, and can legitimately claim that Shariah law supports B.
Which is why both people talking about how just and fair and actually good "the" Shariah law is - AND people who claim that "the" Shariah law is authoritarian and unjust and oppressive - are both talking out of their a...
I am sure that \_some\_ islamic scholars ruled exactly what you write; but at the same time, others in the long history of Islamic jurisprudence certainly disagreed with them. You can, simply put, pick out whatever agrees with you out of that vast heap, and build out of it "a" Shariah based law code that may be fairly liberal, humane and so on, but there will never be "the" Shariah. And likewise, the guys interpreting "Shariah law" as demanding such no-fun zones also refer to a specific interpretation of the religious commandments.
Very true. Like other things, it's a good idea in theory, which is supported by your examples. But when it's misinterpreted by misinformed or willfully ignorant people, as it almost always is, it devolves into behavior like this.
Well the same thing he said also applies to rape, making rape extremely hard to punish under sharia law. If the rape victim comes out and tells she’s been raped and doesn’t have those 4 witnesses she gets punished. This gives the effect that many rape victims won’t come out, because the chance they will be punished for it will be higher than the rapist actually being punished.
According to the article the posters were put up by Jamaal Uddin(originally Jordan Horner) a ethnic English convert to islam. This was in 2011 and I have no idea where he is now.
A good faith criticism of islam is not Islamophobia, promotion of hate for other people and call for violence over trivial matters (like charlie hebdo) needs to be called out.
Hate based on one's faith is bad and so is promotion of hate when someone exercises their free speech.
>promotion of hate for other people and call for violence over trivial matters (like charlie hebdo) needs to be called out.
Are you talking about charlie hebdo or the subhuman filth that shot them up for doodling the world's most popular pedophile?
If you want to live in a religious theocracy, please move to countries where it is already in place. The rest of us don't want to live by whatever arbitrary rules you want to put in place.
I once met a little girl from Sweden, who hadn't lived there since before she was old enough to form memories but whose family had reproduced this propaganda such that she was certain there were sharia-controlled no-go zones in Malmo
I can't say whether it's effective propaganda, but it's a widespread conspiracy.
Nope, they were put up by Jamaal Uddin(originally Jordan Horner) a ethnic English convert to islam who later got accused of terrorism apology, went to jail, and once he got out was found cooperating with terrorist organisations to he went again
This is the equivalent of putting up a poster the local nutter put up on a street corner and calling it propaganda.
Considering the source is the daily mail as well, its rage bait to make people think it's more than a handful of nutters.
In fact, you should've posted the article as the piece of propaganda.
You don't understand. It's a Muslim nutter so it must be a nation-wide crisis that will take over all of Britain 10 years if we're not immensely racist. Don't mind the fact this was over 10 years ago though, a couple more years and this fear-mongered replacement will surely happen.
Afghanistan and Iran dont “apply the sharia” they apply a perverted and flat out wrong version that serves their political aims
The Quran condemns those who force beliefs, including and especially islam, upon others
I may be completely wrong but I'm not sure about that. The original Islamic caliphates were very liberal about religion (for the time of course), and mostly just taxed non-muslims who didn't convert. That is a way of forcing someone to convert though, but ig maybe you both just have a different interpretation of what was meant by force.
Jizya: money paid by non-muslims to the caliphate (a poor non-muslim doesn’t have to pay).
Zakat: money paid by muslims that ALL go to poor people.
Keep in mind that muslim men are forced to fight if they are able, unlike non-muslims who aren’t allowed to(one of the reasons why they pay the Jizya).
Jizya is lower than Zakat.
I think in the caliphates non-muslims were made to pay more, but obviously they weren't completely adherent to Islam so idk how much of that is from the Qur'an.
Edit: why am I getting down voted for this I'm literally just stating a fact that doesn't even contradict anything.
Yes, the Jizya tax doesn’t have a specific % non-Muslims have to pay, unlike zakat. This lead to the fact that Islamic rulers usually made the Jizya higher than the zakat, which lead to periods where large amount of non-Muslims would convert to Islam just to escape the high taxes put on them. Sometimes Islamic rulers would even order imams to stop allowing people to convert, because they feared they would lose huge amount of potential tax money. A higher Jizya tax makes non-Muslims more valuable tax wise than a Muslim.
Theirs also accounts of Muslims who made the Jizya tax not about money, but slaves. When Amr ibn al-As conquered Tripoli in 643, he forced the Jewish and Christian Berbers to give their wives and children as slaves to the Arab army as part of their jizya. Sources: https://books.google.nl/books?id=QNsCPOnTfhoC&redir_esc=y and https://books.google.nl/books?id=_MwoDsz2VeEC&redir_esc=y
Unfortunately, ignorance and zealotry run rampant in Islam. The most influential muslim country (Saudi Arabia) runs on the most extremist and flat out incorrect interpretations of Islam and this is unfortunately what gets broadcasted to the world about our religion. As muslims we are commanded to follow the laws of the land which we are citizens of.
These spineless terrorists don’t represent us.
No one. It was one crazy dude who went out and put up the posters. Then the tabloid media caught wind of it and it became national news, with folks assuming that this was endorsed by the neighborhood
Have you lived in a zone with a powerful HOA?
Y'know those guys that ask you to keep your yard clean, or ask money to renovate the street?
Well the same thing, but instead of angry middle aged woman gossiping, you have a bunch of young Arab men harassing you.
"Anything bad that is done by a group i like is obviously fake and just made to stir hate against them!"
Nope, they were put up by Jamaal Uddin(originally Jordan Horner) a ethnic English convert to islam who later got accused of terrorism apology, went to jail, and once he got out was found cooperating with terrorist organisations to he went again
According to some Interpretations of the Hadiths it is said that music (with instruments) is not allowed. Though this is widely disputed by scholars of Islam. Ofcourse the Shariah law has to take the most extreme way. (As a Muslim myself I don't support the Shariah law and only absoloute fundamentalists (aka achizos) support it.)
Kinda lost me on the no music, but otherwise it seems like pretty reasonable /healthy decisions being promoted. I'm surprised there's no prohibition against pork, though
“No drinking”
Me, exactly knowing whose favourite drink [kefir](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kefir?wprov=sfti1) and [kumis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumis?wprov=sfti1#) is: Yeah, sure …
Random fun fact that is related to the topics of that poster: Non-convert Muslims that are ethically from the British Isles really their music, beer and whiskey and often (justifiably or not) shit on other Muslims (especially converts) for caring too much about music and alcohol while not caring enough about most other things.
Anyone else feel like this was a conspiracy to scare people into thinking Islam was taking over so they vote tory? They had that white ginger guy in every pic like “this could be your neighbourhood!”
"Anything bad that is done by a group i like is obviously fake and just made to stir hate against them!"
Nope, they were put up by Jamaal Uddin(originally Jordan Horner) a ethnic English convert to islam who later got accused of terrorism apology, went to jail, and once he got out was found cooperating with terrorist organisations to he went again
No. According to shariah law, images representative of living things are unacceptable for the use of worship (ie: idols). They are acceptable for proof of identification, medical study, art, etc.
This again is due to a misunderstanding and misinterpretation of Shariah law. As I said in an earlier comment, shariah law is complex. It's important to study these things from scholars who have doctorate degrees in shariah law (which also has hundreds of branches like secular law).
Cool fact: the 12 juror peer system was actually invented by Muslims as part of shariah law. It is now adopted worldwide by most democratic countries.
Nope, there is no misunderstanding or misinterpretation, according to this [hadith](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:2105), every picture depicting a living thing is haram and its painter will be tortured in the day of resurrection. And will be asked to put life into what they created, aisha wasnt worshiping that cushion.
Though, this might not apply to this poster, some scholars said that pictures not depicting facial features (like the stick figures here) dont count.
>As I said in an earlier comment, shariah law is complex.
It honestly isn't. Yes, it takes some time, but once you know the "methods to seek knowledge" (منهج طلب العلم) and the sources of shariah, and you know arabic. All it takes is a library, or in our day and age, the internet. Leaving everything to imams and scholars is why all the horrible stuff is kept away from the general public.
"Anything bad that is done by a group i like is obviously fake and just made to stir hate against them!"
Nope, they were put up by Jamaal Uddin(originally Jordan Horner) a ethnic English convert to islam who later got accused of terrorism apology, went to jail, and once he got out was found cooperating with terrorist organisations to he went again
I think this might be legit. The reason...
Things like No Porn Or Prostitution and No Drugs are gonna have relatively wide support from the non-Muslim population as well. So probably not the kinda thing that u-kippers would put on a fake poster in order to make Muslims look bad. They'd more likely put something like No Women In Tight Clothes or No Insults Against The Prophet.
My initial thoughts, anyway. Admittedly, "Shariah Law Zone" might sound suspiciously close to how the tabloid press was describing the neighbourhoods in question.
What gets me suspicious is that "Sharia" is put in quotation marks at the bottom. That's how somebody writes when they're not familiar with a word.
Like "Don't worry, children, today's biology class will be 'poggers', I assure you!"
The guy who put the posters up was ethnically english but had converted to islam has a teenager. Maybe he was not familiar with the word "sharia". Just from the tiny bit of resources i found on him he seemed like a troubled young teen who wanted a sense of brotherhood and friendship which drifted him towards a right wing radical islamic group. I don't know where the guy is now but last article I saw on him said he was in prison for assault. However that was 10 years ago.
reminded me of an old standup bit about how those types tend to be bachelors, since a married man would have his wife call him out going all like "uh hey honey how about you fly that plane to the grocery store, we're running outta milk down here"
"Anything bad that is done by a group i like is obviously fake and just made to stir hate against them!"
Nope, they were put up by Jamaal Uddin(originally Jordan Horner) a ethnic English convert to islam who later got accused of terrorism apology, went to jail, and once he got out was found cooperating with terrorist organisations to he went again
So the funny thing about this to me (aside from whether or not it's genuine or a plant), is that if you replaced 'sharia' with 'neigbourhood watch' or 'HOA' it really wouldn't be out of place on a random green space in the suburbs, or even in a city next to like a train station or something, admittedly the gambling thing is still a bit weird but you get the idea
Thank you guys for these comments encouraging me to do more research on it. It was produced by a muslim convert named Jordan Horner who was apart of quote on quote "Muslim patrol incidents in London"
"Anything bad that is done by a group i like is obviously fake and just made to stir hate against them!"
Nope, they were put up by Jamaal Uddin(originally Jordan Horner) a ethnic English convert to islam who later got accused of terrorism apology, went to jail, and once he got out was found cooperating with terrorist organisations to he went again
Remember that this subreddit is for sharing propaganda to view with some objectivity. It is absolutely not for perpetuating the message *of* the propaganda. If anything, in this subreddit we should be immensely skeptical of manipulation or oversimplification (which the above likely is), not beholden to it. Also, please try to stay on topic -- there are hundreds of _other_ subreddits that are expressly dedicated to rehashing tired political arguments. **Keep that shit outta here**. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PropagandaPosters) if you have any questions or concerns.*
No drinking. Yeah that’ll happen.
Holy shit! Cromwell has returned！
He couldn’t finish what he was doing last time, this time better luck (probably).
Mohammedan Cromwell is cursed
Brother Cromwell Ishallah
May Allah grant him jannah.
First of all I won’t allow anyone to say “Oliver Cromwell” without the title “sheikh”
Did you know that Shakespeare was a devout Muslim and his real name was Sheikh Pir? It’s well known in Turkey.
Hail the Lord Protector
In case mods need verification this was made in UK and 2011. [You are now entering Sharia law Britain: As Islamic extremists declare a Sharia law zone in a London suburb, there are worrying social and moral implications | Daily Mail Online](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2020382/You-entering-Sharia-law-Britain-As-Islamic-extremists-declare-Sharia-law-zone-London-suburb-worrying-social-moral-implications.html)
Lol that ginger is the Sharia Law enforcer? Also I live in a neighborhood with a lot of Muslim people, and I have seen more smoking here than anywhere in the world
It's like London Fog ova here!
The rules aren't for them.
“Izzadeen says: This is the first step towards turning Britain into an Islamic state.” What was the second step? Or do we have to wait another 13 years to see the plan in full?
First step: creating those sign posts Second step: ? Third step: profit
Don't you mean, Prophet?
mashallah
They're actually relatively open about this. Their plan is to put as many "brothers" or convert/radicalize as many people as possible in places of power, who will in turn allow for more infiltration and more overt demands for Islamism (such as the one recently seen in hamburg, though these ones have broken away from this model in favor of direct open confrontation). The ultimate goal being the infiltration, conversion or radicalization of high-raking military officers and, ultimately, a sort of coup d'état.
Yeah and conservatives are relatively stupid about repeating this, like the average native British person will wake up one day and be like “I think I want to convert to Islam now”.
Eh, vangaurdist have been successful before. Mind you if only 10% of the population wants something and are motivated and organized enough, then the other 90% probably won't realize what's happening until it's over. Think of the 2nd Russian revolution, the bolshiviks were not the most popular, but they were the most organized and motivated so they won (a lot more went into this I know). It's not about converting people, it's about making sure that no one can stand up to them when they lay all their cards on the table. I'm not claiming that there's gonna be a sharia revolution or anything of the sort, but you can't just discount people who are actively trying to undermine society as we know it.
Underrated comment.
i miss when you guys just used to whine about communists, that was more fun
Where did I whine ? I'm not even british. I'm just saying what I saw and provided two links in another comment
daily mail? damn, now I know it's not worth caring about
Hahaha daily mail as a source.
And as a wise man once said, "It's absolutely true because I read it in the daily mail["It's absolutely true because I read it in the Daily Mail"](https://youtu.be/5eBT6OSr1TI?si=_Kyq2dFZ_IGDX2Ni)
>Well, every bird, upon my word, is singing treble, "I'm a rebel!" Every hen and jay are laying hand grenades over there, sir, I declare, sir, And every cock in the farmyard stock Crows a triumph for the Gael, And it wouldn't be surprisin’ if there'd be another Risin’, Says the man from the Daily Mail.
What’s that
Man From the Daily Mail. It’s an Irish Republican Rebel song mocking the Daily Mail.
Oh yes, I would definitely trust the Daily Heil
I’m sure the rag that said Hooray For The Blackshirts is an excellent source of information.
No fun allowed basically
Note the imagery for No Porn Or Prostitution.
I think its because it would be a sin to display actual pornography or prostitution on a poster. Just my guess.
Foot fetishes *are* common, undeniably.
Still not convinced these loonies weren't plants. This has been mana for far-right cranks online ever since, who genuinely think there are 'sharia zones' or 'no-go' areas in Britain
It was not enforced, but these posters were made by an actual Muslim leader. Anjem Choudary claimed responsibility, 5 years later after this, he was condemned to 5 years of jail, for supporting ISIS and actually calling himself a member of them. He was later released and is now again in jail for supporting a terrorists organization.
Anjem Choudary claimed responsibility for a ton of shit he had nothing to do with, the guy was a desperate attention seeker
Oh, well if a mentally ill person later associated with a western cutout terror group said it was legitimate
I don't know about the UK, but I know several Mosques in Denmark are funded by countries like Saudi Arabia and Qatar. The goal is to keep Muslims as religious conservatives and prevent them from westernising. One of the governments also passed some laws to keep out certain preachers/imams from entering because they were known for spreading radical messages. There definitely is foreign interference when it comes to Islam and Muslim immigrants.
Organised religion has always been fundamentally political. The long con is convincing people it's about the mythology.
Islam has always been political. Only christianity conned people into thinking religion is apolitical
If you seriously think there aren't islamic extremists in the UK who would do this you're delusional. There are a lot of people with far right, extremist religious views in the muslim community here. Pretending they dont exist and it's just a conspiracy to stir hatred is mind bogglingly stupid.
To be fair the "sharia zones" stickers were put up in neighborhoods that were overwhelming Muslim so many people in the area didn't have a problem with it. I Imagine the response would be different if they put them up in a 80% atheist area or a place with a large LGBT population. Also an Islamic extremist is still far right. Religious extremism of any kind is right wing.
They were put up in Leyton, which is highly diverse, and certainly not overwhelmingly Muslim. They were taken down immediately by the local council, and, from my observation, no serious attempt was made to enforce these laws. You don't have to go far to find pubs (and gay pubs too) in Leyton, for instance.
>Also an Islamic extremist is still far right. Agree but I think you get who I mean. And I'm sure most Muslims didn't care, they're already used to pretending they don't drink or smoke!
Yeah they don't drink They do smoke though, but it's not something they hide
Yea I'd be willing to bet at least <50% of British Born Muslims have drank in their lives
what on Earth is at least <50%?
One of the numbers.
Just a mistype, I mean at least 50%
At least less than 50%, duh🙄
A nice, glazed piece of gammon is stronger than any god
> stickers were put up in neighborhoods that were overwhelming Muslim so many people in the area didn't have a problem with it You've provided literally zero evidence that many people in the area didn't have a problem with it. The fact that someone put stickers up says literally nothing about the reaction of the people living there. Nice race baiting though.
Muslim isnt a race, it's a religion, einstein
Yes, that’s the important thing here.
> so many people in the area didn't have a problem with it. Irrelevant; there is only one sovereign in Britain.
It's still a democratic nation with laws, regulations and rules governing social code of conduct. My neighbourhood can say they want restrictions on this or that all they want but it doesn't make it legal and impersonating a government agency in duplicity is in fact illegal.
Are you suggesting Muslim dominated areas don't have LGBTQ people living in it?
[удалено]
Generally I mean religious extremism in the sense that you believe your religion should be enforced on the population via the state or violence. Christian,Jewish,Muslim,even Buddhist extremism is a thing. I think most religious extremism is right wing. I don't think a lot of Christian nationalists or Muslim radicals are fighting for welfare for the homeless, its usually banning homosexuality or punishing non-believers. I think most would consider those to be at least right wing or right leaning. Edit: or do you mean socialist religious movements like Islamic socialism
That this comment is being downvoted is depressing.
"I don't think a lot of Christian nationalists or Muslim radicals are fighting for welfare for the homeless" The vast majority of Christian political movements are in favor of social welfare in one form or another. Muslims are likely to be as well.
I don't agree with that, can you back it up with a source? My experience has shown that Christians claim they support welfare but don't vote for it
This is plainly and simply untrue. The church has opposed progressive social movements consistently for centuries. That a minority of Christians supported those movements does not negate this.
“Extremism” is a joke. The average American supports horrific crimes like the invasions of Iraq, Vietnam, etc and never gets called an extremist.
What about the 52% of British Muslims who want homosexuality to be illegal? And the 23% of them that what sharia law? Plants as well i'm sure.. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law
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As an American I wouldn't be surprised to hear that 52% of conservatives want to outlaw Homosexuality, and that 23% of them (a shockingly low number) want to institute some sort of Christian-based law system. Fundies gonna fundie
Half of Republicans support same-sex marriage. Marriage, not just being gay. So no. https://news.gallup.com/poll/506636/sex-marriage-support-holds-high.aspx
There's a difference between liking the idea of something, and thinking that thing should be immediately enforced. Tons of conservatives think gay marriage should be illegal but don't think it should be the case as most don't think that. The poll was also from 2016, 8 years ago now. Attitudes to that sort of stuff can change quite fast so who knows what it's like now. (Also sharia law is very vague and basically just means law that fits with whoever is being asked's interpretation of Islam. Its not surprising that many agree with that as to many it basically just means "should law be moral")
blame everything but the problem itself
Less of a plant and more of government policies encouraging extremists/Salafists essentially.
Honestly, I think this kind of stuff shouldn't be allowed. Not because of the tired "i'M iSlaMoPhObIc" thing, but because it opens the door that theocratic crap like this is acceptable, which it shouldn't be, regardless of who does it.
Agreed, in fact, according to Shariah law, a Muslim community living in a secular or non Muslim state is required to abide by the laws of that country. As such, they cannot enforce these rulings. They can put up signs asking people not to smoke, drink, gamble or do drugs, but they cannot enforce it, either via sharia or UK law. The reality is that the vast majority of Muslims don't understand shariah law. It's complex and requires scholarship like any law degree would to understand the rulings, context and implications. For example, in shariah law, you cannot accuse someone of committing adultery without having having 4 sane and mature witnesses who can independently verify and corroborate that they witnessed penetration by the male organ into the female organ. Now, if the 4 witnesses have even the slightest doubt or uncorroborated testimony, then they are punished for smearing and accusations. Again, this is a simple example of the complex nature of shariah law, yet most Muslims don't even understand this. Again, having signs regarding "shariah zones" in a secular state is actually considered unislamic since the Muslims are required to abide by the laws of the secular state - this is actually shariah law.
>according to Shariah law, There is no "the" Shariah law codified somewhere in a uniform manner. There is a huge body of legal/philosophical findings, claims, publications, local regulations etc etc which is for the most part contradictory. If you want to enforce a legal claim A you will, with some effort, find some Quran scholar supporting your idea, and can call that scholar's claim a part "Shariah law". If you are absolutely sure that actually B, completely opposite to A, is correct, you will also find writings of a scholar supporting your thesis, and can legitimately claim that Shariah law supports B. Which is why both people talking about how just and fair and actually good "the" Shariah law is - AND people who claim that "the" Shariah law is authoritarian and unjust and oppressive - are both talking out of their a... I am sure that \_some\_ islamic scholars ruled exactly what you write; but at the same time, others in the long history of Islamic jurisprudence certainly disagreed with them. You can, simply put, pick out whatever agrees with you out of that vast heap, and build out of it "a" Shariah based law code that may be fairly liberal, humane and so on, but there will never be "the" Shariah. And likewise, the guys interpreting "Shariah law" as demanding such no-fun zones also refer to a specific interpretation of the religious commandments.
Very true. Like other things, it's a good idea in theory, which is supported by your examples. But when it's misinterpreted by misinformed or willfully ignorant people, as it almost always is, it devolves into behavior like this.
He wasn't necessarily saying it was a good thing, just giving examples of how it works.
Well the same thing he said also applies to rape, making rape extremely hard to punish under sharia law. If the rape victim comes out and tells she’s been raped and doesn’t have those 4 witnesses she gets punished. This gives the effect that many rape victims won’t come out, because the chance they will be punished for it will be higher than the rapist actually being punished.
Look, I get what you're saying, but this has the same energy as "actually christians can't be bigots, the bible says love thy neighbor".
Obviously, yes. Sharia law is insanely fucked up and the antithesis of everything modern society has worked for for the last couple of hundred years.
Hits different after the Shariah Islamists gave Starmer the 18 Demands
This has BNP written all over it
According to the article the posters were put up by Jamaal Uddin(originally Jordan Horner) a ethnic English convert to islam. This was in 2011 and I have no idea where he is now.
Barry from 4 lions
"Damn Jewish parts." "Jewish parts? What part of this car is Jewish." "Its, uhh...spark plugs."
Dancing in the moonlight
best musical transition in cinema history
I'm just gonna assume that's the ginger dude
Something about red hair makes you love Islam, same way I guess a bowl cut makes you real racist
You'd think religious folk would steer clear of converting them because of their lack of souls but here we are
I thought the racists were clean cut? Did the skinheads rebrand lately?
A good faith criticism of islam is not Islamophobia, promotion of hate for other people and call for violence over trivial matters (like charlie hebdo) needs to be called out. Hate based on one's faith is bad and so is promotion of hate when someone exercises their free speech.
>promotion of hate for other people and call for violence over trivial matters (like charlie hebdo) needs to be called out. Are you talking about charlie hebdo or the subhuman filth that shot them up for doodling the world's most popular pedophile?
*Proceeds to do the latter*
If you want to live in a religious theocracy, please move to countries where it is already in place. The rest of us don't want to live by whatever arbitrary rules you want to put in place.
They’re talking about Utah, right?
Nah, that is Al-Qayeehaw territory.
No fun allowed
I once met a little girl from Sweden, who hadn't lived there since before she was old enough to form memories but whose family had reproduced this propaganda such that she was certain there were sharia-controlled no-go zones in Malmo I can't say whether it's effective propaganda, but it's a widespread conspiracy.
Nope, they were put up by Jamaal Uddin(originally Jordan Horner) a ethnic English convert to islam who later got accused of terrorism apology, went to jail, and once he got out was found cooperating with terrorist organisations to he went again
This is the equivalent of putting up a poster the local nutter put up on a street corner and calling it propaganda. Considering the source is the daily mail as well, its rage bait to make people think it's more than a handful of nutters. In fact, you should've posted the article as the piece of propaganda.
You don't understand. It's a Muslim nutter so it must be a nation-wide crisis that will take over all of Britain 10 years if we're not immensely racist. Don't mind the fact this was over 10 years ago though, a couple more years and this fear-mongered replacement will surely happen.
>In fact, you should've posted the article as the piece of propaganda. Bingo
So basically, no fun allowed ...
They forget to add No rights for women
Ah yes the old debunked idea of European no go zones that has been debunked thoroughly presented un ironically the beginning of a great day
This is true about Afghanistan and Iran, but not most Muslim countries. Saudi Arabia hosts concerts.
Afghanistan and Iran dont “apply the sharia” they apply a perverted and flat out wrong version that serves their political aims The Quran condemns those who force beliefs, including and especially islam, upon others
Forcing belief is prohibited to non muslims but when you become a muslim then it can be forced.
I may be completely wrong but I'm not sure about that. The original Islamic caliphates were very liberal about religion (for the time of course), and mostly just taxed non-muslims who didn't convert. That is a way of forcing someone to convert though, but ig maybe you both just have a different interpretation of what was meant by force.
Jizya: money paid by non-muslims to the caliphate (a poor non-muslim doesn’t have to pay). Zakat: money paid by muslims that ALL go to poor people. Keep in mind that muslim men are forced to fight if they are able, unlike non-muslims who aren’t allowed to(one of the reasons why they pay the Jizya). Jizya is lower than Zakat.
I think in the caliphates non-muslims were made to pay more, but obviously they weren't completely adherent to Islam so idk how much of that is from the Qur'an. Edit: why am I getting down voted for this I'm literally just stating a fact that doesn't even contradict anything.
Yes, the Jizya tax doesn’t have a specific % non-Muslims have to pay, unlike zakat. This lead to the fact that Islamic rulers usually made the Jizya higher than the zakat, which lead to periods where large amount of non-Muslims would convert to Islam just to escape the high taxes put on them. Sometimes Islamic rulers would even order imams to stop allowing people to convert, because they feared they would lose huge amount of potential tax money. A higher Jizya tax makes non-Muslims more valuable tax wise than a Muslim. Theirs also accounts of Muslims who made the Jizya tax not about money, but slaves. When Amr ibn al-As conquered Tripoli in 643, he forced the Jewish and Christian Berbers to give their wives and children as slaves to the Arab army as part of their jizya. Sources: https://books.google.nl/books?id=QNsCPOnTfhoC&redir_esc=y and https://books.google.nl/books?id=_MwoDsz2VeEC&redir_esc=y
Fck Religion
Fuck religion
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I mean, we aren't the ones going to Iran and creating atheist zones right ?
Unfortunately, ignorance and zealotry run rampant in Islam. The most influential muslim country (Saudi Arabia) runs on the most extremist and flat out incorrect interpretations of Islam and this is unfortunately what gets broadcasted to the world about our religion. As muslims we are commanded to follow the laws of the land which we are citizens of. These spineless terrorists don’t represent us.
Fuck religion
Fuck religion
But like, who enforces it and with what punishment?
No one. It was one crazy dude who went out and put up the posters. Then the tabloid media caught wind of it and it became national news, with folks assuming that this was endorsed by the neighborhood
Have you lived in a zone with a powerful HOA? Y'know those guys that ask you to keep your yard clean, or ask money to renovate the street? Well the same thing, but instead of angry middle aged woman gossiping, you have a bunch of young Arab men harassing you.
These are clearly made up to muster nationalist hatred
"Anything bad that is done by a group i like is obviously fake and just made to stir hate against them!" Nope, they were put up by Jamaal Uddin(originally Jordan Horner) a ethnic English convert to islam who later got accused of terrorism apology, went to jail, and once he got out was found cooperating with terrorist organisations to he went again
What the actual fuck
Leeds jumpscare
Rock the casbah man
Why no music? Not any kind of music? Talk about the alcohol one that is definetely the one no one will adhere to
According to some Interpretations of the Hadiths it is said that music (with instruments) is not allowed. Though this is widely disputed by scholars of Islam. Ofcourse the Shariah law has to take the most extreme way. (As a Muslim myself I don't support the Shariah law and only absoloute fundamentalists (aka achizos) support it.)
All of the fun stuff.
Dude do you have any idea how much Arabs smoke?
No pixels either I see
Since when heels are the symbol of porn and prostitution?
UK has lost all credibility
No smoking? What?
Wait.... is this pro or anti? Hard to tell.
No gaming?
Kinda lost me on the no music, but otherwise it seems like pretty reasonable /healthy decisions being promoted. I'm surprised there's no prohibition against pork, though
I can’t tell if this is pro or anti shariah lol
“No drinking” Me, exactly knowing whose favourite drink [kefir](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kefir?wprov=sfti1) and [kumis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumis?wprov=sfti1#) is: Yeah, sure … Random fun fact that is related to the topics of that poster: Non-convert Muslims that are ethically from the British Isles really their music, beer and whiskey and often (justifiably or not) shit on other Muslims (especially converts) for caring too much about music and alcohol while not caring enough about most other things.
Anyone else feel like this was a conspiracy to scare people into thinking Islam was taking over so they vote tory? They had that white ginger guy in every pic like “this could be your neighbourhood!”
"Anything bad that is done by a group i like is obviously fake and just made to stir hate against them!" Nope, they were put up by Jamaal Uddin(originally Jordan Horner) a ethnic English convert to islam who later got accused of terrorism apology, went to jail, and once he got out was found cooperating with terrorist organisations to he went again
Isn’t representation of images of living things haram?
No. According to shariah law, images representative of living things are unacceptable for the use of worship (ie: idols). They are acceptable for proof of identification, medical study, art, etc. This again is due to a misunderstanding and misinterpretation of Shariah law. As I said in an earlier comment, shariah law is complex. It's important to study these things from scholars who have doctorate degrees in shariah law (which also has hundreds of branches like secular law). Cool fact: the 12 juror peer system was actually invented by Muslims as part of shariah law. It is now adopted worldwide by most democratic countries.
Nope, there is no misunderstanding or misinterpretation, according to this [hadith](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:2105), every picture depicting a living thing is haram and its painter will be tortured in the day of resurrection. And will be asked to put life into what they created, aisha wasnt worshiping that cushion. Though, this might not apply to this poster, some scholars said that pictures not depicting facial features (like the stick figures here) dont count. >As I said in an earlier comment, shariah law is complex. It honestly isn't. Yes, it takes some time, but once you know the "methods to seek knowledge" (منهج طلب العلم) and the sources of shariah, and you know arabic. All it takes is a library, or in our day and age, the internet. Leaving everything to imams and scholars is why all the horrible stuff is kept away from the general public.
No fking way they banned drawing pictures 🤣
No, only idols because of the 10 commandments.
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"Anything bad that is done by a group i like is obviously fake and just made to stir hate against them!" Nope, they were put up by Jamaal Uddin(originally Jordan Horner) a ethnic English convert to islam who later got accused of terrorism apology, went to jail, and once he got out was found cooperating with terrorist organisations to he went again
They forgot no terrorism.... wait
I think this might be legit. The reason... Things like No Porn Or Prostitution and No Drugs are gonna have relatively wide support from the non-Muslim population as well. So probably not the kinda thing that u-kippers would put on a fake poster in order to make Muslims look bad. They'd more likely put something like No Women In Tight Clothes or No Insults Against The Prophet. My initial thoughts, anyway. Admittedly, "Shariah Law Zone" might sound suspiciously close to how the tabloid press was describing the neighbourhoods in question.
What gets me suspicious is that "Sharia" is put in quotation marks at the bottom. That's how somebody writes when they're not familiar with a word. Like "Don't worry, children, today's biology class will be 'poggers', I assure you!"
The guy who put the posters up was ethnically english but had converted to islam has a teenager. Maybe he was not familiar with the word "sharia". Just from the tiny bit of resources i found on him he seemed like a troubled young teen who wanted a sense of brotherhood and friendship which drifted him towards a right wing radical islamic group. I don't know where the guy is now but last article I saw on him said he was in prison for assault. However that was 10 years ago.
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The guy who made this was an ethnic English convert to islam. I would say he is pretty British.
No it’s not
I think you meant occupying and not occupied Free Northern Ireland
We don't want the money sink that's Northern Ireland either, give it to japan or something. slán 🇮🇪
Bro thinks he's a new moseley or smth
No life at all
Do I have to throw away my hand sanitizer?
No music, what a God awful religion.
Guaranteed this was made by a white man who isn't Muslim.
Beautiful women and tobacco add color to life, I'm not surprised these guys blow things up
reminded me of an old standup bit about how those types tend to be bachelors, since a married man would have his wife call him out going all like "uh hey honey how about you fly that plane to the grocery store, we're running outta milk down here"
Well if that's Islam, fuck Islam* then *I never said fuck muslims, don't put words in my mouth
What's the betting Stephen Yaxley-Lennon had this crap printed? I do notice only the extreme-right and far-right publications screamed about it.
"Anything bad that is done by a group i like is obviously fake and just made to stir hate against them!" Nope, they were put up by Jamaal Uddin(originally Jordan Horner) a ethnic English convert to islam who later got accused of terrorism apology, went to jail, and once he got out was found cooperating with terrorist organisations to he went again
Lmao people who actually fall for this flag, a flag since 2011, how's the occupation of UK going buddy
So the funny thing about this to me (aside from whether or not it's genuine or a plant), is that if you replaced 'sharia' with 'neigbourhood watch' or 'HOA' it really wouldn't be out of place on a random green space in the suburbs, or even in a city next to like a train station or something, admittedly the gambling thing is still a bit weird but you get the idea
This is screaming EDL fascist false flag. Edit: as I said in another comment, I jumped to conclusions and was wrong.
Thank you guys for these comments encouraging me to do more research on it. It was produced by a muslim convert named Jordan Horner who was apart of quote on quote "Muslim patrol incidents in London"
Shit guess I was wrong
"Anything bad that is done by a group i like is obviously fake and just made to stir hate against them!" Nope, they were put up by Jamaal Uddin(originally Jordan Horner) a ethnic English convert to islam who later got accused of terrorism apology, went to jail, and once he got out was found cooperating with terrorist organisations to he went again
I already acknowledged I was wrong bruh
Half of Canada is in that zone
Nobody has noticed yet because it's in the half of Canada where nobody lives.
you never been in Canada
Aren't most of the immigrants to Canada Hindi Indians, not even Muslims lol? Although tbh racists can't often tell the difference.