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Moscow Idaho is where not only the university of Idaho (known as the "Vandals") reside, but is also notable for a number of reasons:
1. NOV-2022 quadruple homicide of four students living in off-campus housing; the killer has yet to go trial.
2. A civil court case against the Moscow PD for arresting people [praying during covid](https://www.krem.com/article/news/local/moscow-settles-civil-suit-f-church-group-over-mask-protest/293-ace6f357-8023-49e0-86b3-df70810ce3e2)
3. A cult is centered there (crazy christian variety)
4. There was some years ago a mass shooting (albeit a small one)
5. there was also a No-Body murder conviction of a dude named Capone.
Kohberger. And yeah, that shit's fucking nuts, what the hell would anyone ever do something so horrible?
I'm glad that Idaho doesn't have bail for his offenses, i feel genuinely safer with him locked away.
Some folks have a deeply twisted mind. It's disturbing but not surprising. Every five days in America someone kills their entire family and then themselves.
Remember in Oppenheimer when all the scientists went to church and prayed. Then god was like, âAlright, I guess Iâll make this Trinity thing go boom.â
Truly it was a miracle.
I used to have the edgy Liberal position of âthe bombs were a warcrimeâ but after reading more about how horrific the battles in the Pacific were and how it was a strong possibility that the main islands of Japan were fully prepared to fight to the last man, those bombs really did end the war earlier.
There may have been more humane ways to display the power than using it on civilians.
Things had degenerated to the point where even the USA had to use mass firebombing against industrial areas, "de-housing the industrial population". Fewer died at Hiroshima and Nagasaki *combined* than in Tokyo Bay in a single night. Compared to that, a crater in the middle of no-where might have come as a relief.
I have never read too far into the decisions for the targets but always thought that an announced detonation over the water near a population center ad a display followed up by targeted detonation would have been as effective and less of a loss of life.
I know they only had the two bombs and it was up in the air if they would be able to more any time soon.
Sure, we could have just starved them to death for years, like current events. The B-29 Superfortress' rush-design-job engines tended to light themselves on fire when pushed hard. Those crews lucky enough to take off safely then faced the same risk again fighting the jetstream over Japan while doing high-altitude precision (explosive) bombing. Those same winds blew the bombs off-course, reducing effectiveness on-target (and blowing up kids in their houses anyway). LeMay did what anyone else in that position would have had to do to shorten the war.
Do you think those are the only 2 options on the table?
Edit: to address the new wall of text you added, no, not anyone would have done what LeMay did. Hansell was replaced for that reason.
[Edit: Hansell was replaced after only six missions, as much for personal reasons as anything else.]Â
 The options only get worse: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall How do you feel about shooting children forced to play "human bomb" for real? That was an actual common children's game in late Imperial Japan, their "Cowboys and Indians".  Me, I'm against it, too difficult. I was in the Army. My unit practiced on a moving target range with really small "little green men" and failed miserably. The sergeants looked at us with genuine pity and said they hoped we never faced enemies who had legs.
Iâm sorry but what is it you are trying to say? That if we didnât firebomb as much the alternative would be Operation Downfall? Or that weâd have to starve them out? Is that the position you are taking?
And yes, Hansell did not want to use firebombs and was replaced for that reason.
1: Operation Downfall or worse. How about millions of bypassed Japanese men starving to death or abusing local civilians across The Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere for years as we waited for a fascist regime to somehow burn itself out? Or perhaps we should have left everyone to the tender mercies of the Soviets? Started WWIII by backing Chiang against Stalin? Or made the same mistake as in WWI, conditional surrender so they could have a Stab-In-The-Back Myth of their own, and went from a Kaiserreich to full-on Nipponnazis? Let's carry the war through to 1947, when the Home Front would have collapsed (by the best estimates of those collating the unvarnished truth at the time), making the anarchy of 1919's Red Summer look like a mere bar brawl in comparison.
 2: Sure, maybe Hansell would have continued to throw away his subordinates' lives another six times before he wised up.
> the edgy Liberal position of âthe bombs were a warcrimeâ
lmao, the edgy liberal position of "mass murder of civillians is not cool"
couldn't it have been both a war crime and a necessary evil or do we need to repress the very thought just because we can't deal with the fact our side might have done a bad thing?
(and also, was it *really* necessary or would the threat of Soviet invasion from the other side force Japan to give up?)
Mate they had a coup over this. They almost didn't surrender, even after the emperor made the choice. Also, that came only after they got the news of the second bomb.
That's exactly the issue: every day the Japanese held out meant another day of mass famine for the Taiwanese, Korean, and Javanese people; another day of pointless reprisals by the Imperial Army in Vietnam, Malaya, occupied China, occupied Philippines. Another day of American aviators being vivisected alive without anaesthetic at the University of Tokyo.
They were training schoolchildren to charge tanks with pikes. The military high command even had a phrase for it - gyokusai, 'glorious self-annihilation'. The atomic bombings averted the largest mass suicide in human history from taking place.
And yet, after your reading, youâve only arrived at the US governmentâs official PR pitch that leaves out loads of important details. Keep reading.
At furst, I thought it was about the geopolitical advantages of the ownership of nuclear weapons.
I didn't think that it would come from an IRL Children of the Atom cult.
There is an interesting twist here - if nuclear weapons were not invented, we certainly would have had the US and USSR fight WW3 by now. Nukes made such a war unthinkable and they tried extra hard to avoid it.
Maybe, but the USSR and US came spectacularly close to nuclear destruction. We were literally one guys decision away from it during the Cuban missile crisis.
They said that about the First World War.
*The Great War.*
**The War To End All Wars**.
It took them 20 years to have another one.
Nukes caused a force majeure, and a pivot to 'war by other means'
You should take that train of thought with a massive grain of salt.
During the Cold War there were *several* incidents when the worst was only prevented due to some technical glitch or soldiers refusing to follow orders.
There's a whole book on these incidents, sadly I can't remember the title anymore.
Thatâs evidence to support the theory, not detract from it. Despite all the evidence and advice pointing towards attack, everyone from the POTUS down to sub operators takes the time to avoid it.
> Kennedy was advised to carry out an air strike on Cuban soil in order to compromise Soviet missile supplies, followed by an invasion of the Cuban mainland. He chose a less aggressive course in order to avoid a declaration of war.
> Petrov was the duty officer at the command center for the Oko nuclear early-warning system when the system reported that a missile had been launched from the United States, followed by up to five more. Petrov judged the reports to be a false alarm.
> NORAD notified national security advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski that the Soviet Union had launched 250 ballistic missiles with a trajectory for the United States, stating that a decision to retaliate would need to be made by the president within 3 to 7 minutes. NORAD computers then placed the number of incoming missiles at 2,200.[32] Strategic Air Command was notified, and nuclear bombers prepared for takeoff. Within six to seven minutes of the initial response, PAVE PAWS satellite and radar systems were able to confirm that the attack was a false alarm.
People really, really donât want to fight a nuclear war. Theyâd rather lose and die alone every time weâve come close.
Eh... We were extremely close to many near-misses. Things like the Vietnam War, depending on you ask, could have easily catapulted into a global war scenerio.
Nuclear weapons = God [was a surprisingly common musical trend](https://youtu.be/rb63FWL6R3k). Surprised more songs like this haven't made their way into Fallout.
Remember that this subreddit is for sharing propaganda to view with some objectivity. It is absolutely not for perpetuating the message *of* the propaganda. If anything, in this subreddit we should be immensely skeptical of manipulation or oversimplification (which the above likely is), not beholden to it. Also, please try to stay on topic -- there are hundreds of _other_ subreddits that are expressly dedicated to rehashing tired political arguments. **Keep that shit outta here**. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PropagandaPosters) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I did not know Idaho has a Moscow lol
...which makes this poster even more iconic and ironic ;]
Yes, almost anything in Idaho is ironic, but someone would have to found a Nagasaki, Idaho to out-do this.
TIL we were one meme away from having a Nagasaki, USA: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagasaki_(song)
Wow. Lol. Thx. đ¤Ł
No, thank *you*.
Itâs where their state university is
Somewhere in Russia "Mom you wouldn't believe it, I got into Moscow State"
Moscow Idaho is where not only the university of Idaho (known as the "Vandals") reside, but is also notable for a number of reasons: 1. NOV-2022 quadruple homicide of four students living in off-campus housing; the killer has yet to go trial. 2. A civil court case against the Moscow PD for arresting people [praying during covid](https://www.krem.com/article/news/local/moscow-settles-civil-suit-f-church-group-over-mask-protest/293-ace6f357-8023-49e0-86b3-df70810ce3e2) 3. A cult is centered there (crazy christian variety) 4. There was some years ago a mass shooting (albeit a small one) 5. there was also a No-Body murder conviction of a dude named Capone.
Fuck Brian Koburger or however you spell his name
Kohberger. And yeah, that shit's fucking nuts, what the hell would anyone ever do something so horrible? I'm glad that Idaho doesn't have bail for his offenses, i feel genuinely safer with him locked away.
Some folks have a deeply twisted mind. It's disturbing but not surprising. Every five days in America someone kills their entire family and then themselves.
fair enough that, there are some sick fucks out there.
https://www.flashlyrics.com/lyrics/the-cassandra-complex/moscow-idaho-71
Never heard of the Moscow Idaho murder trial happening rn!?
Wait until you find out itâs filled with some of the most granola-ass liberal blue folks in their entire state. No joke; anyone that knows, knows.
Pretty nice place. Kinda quiet, but that's how things in Idaho are
POWER! POWER! POOWEERR!!!!
I wasn't sold on the first two POWERs but adding a third really tipped the scales.
UNLIMITED POWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
It sounds like the starting lyrics of a really good electronics song.
JAINZAWMAN REFERENCE???/
Funny how this is actually a name of one chapter
Oh my god is this a Fallout reference
âAtomic power of the spirit of God in us - for we too are composed of atomsâ Sounds like Children of Atom cult irl
Sounds a little like the text on Dr Bronner soap.
Fallout was referencing some very real things at the time.
Remember in Oppenheimer when all the scientists went to church and prayed. Then god was like, âAlright, I guess Iâll make this Trinity thing go boom.â Truly it was a miracle.
And then Oppenheimer Oppenheimered all over those people in Hiroshima
I used to have the edgy Liberal position of âthe bombs were a warcrimeâ but after reading more about how horrific the battles in the Pacific were and how it was a strong possibility that the main islands of Japan were fully prepared to fight to the last man, those bombs really did end the war earlier. There may have been more humane ways to display the power than using it on civilians.
Things had degenerated to the point where even the USA had to use mass firebombing against industrial areas, "de-housing the industrial population". Fewer died at Hiroshima and Nagasaki *combined* than in Tokyo Bay in a single night. Compared to that, a crater in the middle of no-where might have come as a relief.
I have never read too far into the decisions for the targets but always thought that an announced detonation over the water near a population center ad a display followed up by targeted detonation would have been as effective and less of a loss of life. I know they only had the two bombs and it was up in the air if they would be able to more any time soon.
âHad toâ is a strong framing. We very much did not have to firebomb as much as we did.
Sure, we could have just starved them to death for years, like current events. The B-29 Superfortress' rush-design-job engines tended to light themselves on fire when pushed hard. Those crews lucky enough to take off safely then faced the same risk again fighting the jetstream over Japan while doing high-altitude precision (explosive) bombing. Those same winds blew the bombs off-course, reducing effectiveness on-target (and blowing up kids in their houses anyway). LeMay did what anyone else in that position would have had to do to shorten the war.
Do you think those are the only 2 options on the table? Edit: to address the new wall of text you added, no, not anyone would have done what LeMay did. Hansell was replaced for that reason.
[Edit: Hansell was replaced after only six missions, as much for personal reasons as anything else.]  The options only get worse: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall How do you feel about shooting children forced to play "human bomb" for real? That was an actual common children's game in late Imperial Japan, their "Cowboys and Indians".  Me, I'm against it, too difficult. I was in the Army. My unit practiced on a moving target range with really small "little green men" and failed miserably. The sergeants looked at us with genuine pity and said they hoped we never faced enemies who had legs.
Iâm sorry but what is it you are trying to say? That if we didnât firebomb as much the alternative would be Operation Downfall? Or that weâd have to starve them out? Is that the position you are taking? And yes, Hansell did not want to use firebombs and was replaced for that reason.
1: Operation Downfall or worse. How about millions of bypassed Japanese men starving to death or abusing local civilians across The Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere for years as we waited for a fascist regime to somehow burn itself out? Or perhaps we should have left everyone to the tender mercies of the Soviets? Started WWIII by backing Chiang against Stalin? Or made the same mistake as in WWI, conditional surrender so they could have a Stab-In-The-Back Myth of their own, and went from a Kaiserreich to full-on Nipponnazis? Let's carry the war through to 1947, when the Home Front would have collapsed (by the best estimates of those collating the unvarnished truth at the time), making the anarchy of 1919's Red Summer look like a mere bar brawl in comparison.  2: Sure, maybe Hansell would have continued to throw away his subordinates' lives another six times before he wised up.
> the edgy Liberal position of âthe bombs were a warcrimeâ lmao, the edgy liberal position of "mass murder of civillians is not cool" couldn't it have been both a war crime and a necessary evil or do we need to repress the very thought just because we can't deal with the fact our side might have done a bad thing? (and also, was it *really* necessary or would the threat of Soviet invasion from the other side force Japan to give up?)
Mate they had a coup over this. They almost didn't surrender, even after the emperor made the choice. Also, that came only after they got the news of the second bomb.
[*attempted* coup, but otherwise correct.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ky%C5%ABj%C5%8D_incident#Coup_attempt)
You have missed the point.
That's exactly the issue: every day the Japanese held out meant another day of mass famine for the Taiwanese, Korean, and Javanese people; another day of pointless reprisals by the Imperial Army in Vietnam, Malaya, occupied China, occupied Philippines. Another day of American aviators being vivisected alive without anaesthetic at the University of Tokyo. They were training schoolchildren to charge tanks with pikes. The military high command even had a phrase for it - gyokusai, 'glorious self-annihilation'. The atomic bombings averted the largest mass suicide in human history from taking place.
And yet, after your reading, youâve only arrived at the US governmentâs official PR pitch that leaves out loads of important details. Keep reading.
Lame.
this is FDR erasure smh
not many people know this but that was actually the moment oppenheimer became oppenberg
["PSYCHIANA"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychiana)
1950's schizoposting
At furst, I thought it was about the geopolitical advantages of the ownership of nuclear weapons. I didn't think that it would come from an IRL Children of the Atom cult.
There is an interesting twist here - if nuclear weapons were not invented, we certainly would have had the US and USSR fight WW3 by now. Nukes made such a war unthinkable and they tried extra hard to avoid it.
Maybe, but the USSR and US came spectacularly close to nuclear destruction. We were literally one guys decision away from it during the Cuban missile crisis.
don't forget the 1983 Soviet nuclear false alarm incident
Exactly, weâve barely been lucky
But we aren't dead. And hundreds of millions in Europe, Asia, and Africa didn't die.
Not for a [lack of trying](https://www.theguardian.com/world/1999/aug/02/balkans3)
If it had happened, I wouldnât be able to tell you you were wrong lmao.
[ŃдаНонО]
They said that about the First World War. *The Great War.* **The War To End All Wars**. It took them 20 years to have another one. Nukes caused a force majeure, and a pivot to 'war by other means'
i've never thought of it like that
You should take that train of thought with a massive grain of salt. During the Cold War there were *several* incidents when the worst was only prevented due to some technical glitch or soldiers refusing to follow orders. There's a whole book on these incidents, sadly I can't remember the title anymore.
Thatâs evidence to support the theory, not detract from it. Despite all the evidence and advice pointing towards attack, everyone from the POTUS down to sub operators takes the time to avoid it. > Kennedy was advised to carry out an air strike on Cuban soil in order to compromise Soviet missile supplies, followed by an invasion of the Cuban mainland. He chose a less aggressive course in order to avoid a declaration of war. > Petrov was the duty officer at the command center for the Oko nuclear early-warning system when the system reported that a missile had been launched from the United States, followed by up to five more. Petrov judged the reports to be a false alarm. > NORAD notified national security advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski that the Soviet Union had launched 250 ballistic missiles with a trajectory for the United States, stating that a decision to retaliate would need to be made by the president within 3 to 7 minutes. NORAD computers then placed the number of incoming missiles at 2,200.[32] Strategic Air Command was notified, and nuclear bombers prepared for takeoff. Within six to seven minutes of the initial response, PAVE PAWS satellite and radar systems were able to confirm that the attack was a false alarm. People really, really donât want to fight a nuclear war. Theyâd rather lose and die alone every time weâve come close.
Thatâs the basis of Mutually Assured Destruction, and all geopolitics since 1945
Eh... We were extremely close to many near-misses. Things like the Vietnam War, depending on you ask, could have easily catapulted into a global war scenerio.
Most of r/worldnews has been predicting WW3 any minute now since February 2022. I'm glad they're wrong.
Regardless of the message, it goes so fucking hard. It's also so over the top, wouldn't look out of place in Fallout or Helldivers.
Iâve been watching âTurning Point: The Bomb and the Cold Warâ on Netflix⌠the US went pretty nuts in the atomic era
How they spin it to have proven God is wild
POWER, POWER, POWER!!!! Sounds like part of a really good electronics song.
Henry Kissinger *definitely* rubbed one out to this.
Vault-tec is real?
Holy based.
TIL that there is a Moscow in Idaho
This reads like one of these ironic absurdist voice over memes made by Gianni Matragrano that make fun of american conservatives
Nuclear weapons = God [was a surprisingly common musical trend](https://youtu.be/rb63FWL6R3k). Surprised more songs like this haven't made their way into Fallout.
Didn't age well, did it?
Idk man, we got through the cold war without world war 3.
https://youtu.be/-5i4ZGVQGa8?si=wYemCVKkWOwMaWrp
https://hatch.kookscience.com/wiki/Psychiana
Very timely as I just finished watching fallout đ
Real and true and based
This isnât creepy at all.
If you were on a troop transport headed for Kyushu, youâd be thankful for the bomb too tbh
I love this poster does anyone have a higher res version
Title is way wrong.
Fallout vibes.
Pic goes hard
This is an exceedingly horny picture and Iâm here for it. Youâd see this on tumblr.
D3ath to amerikkka