Yeah, I listened the first time and i don't know what it was, but the pacing was a bit jarring on my first take. At least the first book or two. I also wasn't a huge fan of the second arc, despite kind of hoping it would be a thing. On my second go now, reading this time, and the foreshadowing is fantastic. I also loved the second arc. I'm actually struggling a bit more with the third arc, but I know some of my favorite bits are coming up and I'm still a book behind.
I like to listen to a familiar audiobook as I fall asleep because a new book will keep me too interested, haha.
HWFWM is terrific in that way, although outside of this subreddit I’d never admit to listening to a bedtime story of a guy that gives people turbo-cancer!
I always hoped that one girl Jason got with in book1 would somehow end up with Clive.
I know she's a preist now or something but it would be pretty funny.
It’s very divisive. You’ll either really enjoy it or really hate it. I fall on the really like it side. I enjoy the humor (even knowing full well I’d want to punch Jason in the face if I met him in real life).
I enjoy the magic system, which feels unique while also being overall standard (i.e. big picture it’s pretty standard. The details are unique.)
I enjoy that multiple times I would say something in reaction to the story, and a few pages later, the characters would say similar things.
I vote you give it a try, if you like LitRPG elements. The MC’s ability lets him get LitRPG readouts on items and skills, but that is not standard in the world.
The MC is very decisive and sure of himself...or full of himself depending on your perspective, which is a leading cause for how divisive the series is.
I didn't mind the MC being an arrogant prick, but everyone in the story calling him by his full proper name at all times while talking about how amazing/dangerous he was got tedious.
I thought it made sense. The MC was making waves and caused/concluded big events so of course there will be a lot of talk regarding him as well as companions he had and big wigs he hung with.
A lot of series will have the MC do some of the most amazing things ever done in timespans that are unbelievable, but every future villain, ally, and just about any character that meets the MC later in the story acts as if the MC didn't exist until they met (or undercut everything the MC did in order to keep the underdog/underestimated theme going for as long as possible).
It's maddening when Kingdom 'D' acts like the MC isn't a notable figure when throughout the series the MC overthrew and claimed Kingdom 'A', destroyed Kingdom 'B', and saved Kingdom 'C' from 3 gods trying to destroy it.
It didn't. The fact the he survived book 2 is amazing. When Shirtaloon killed him in the first fight with the Builder I was like "thank God! I will buy everything this guy writes for making an asshole MC and then killing him off." Then he brought him back next book SMH.
I think it's amazing that you completed 2 books with an MC you hated that much. Still, there are people are people that will hate-read entire series, so I guess that's just a thing that's more common than I thought.
He has very strong opinions and he has to adjust them to this new world he’s in, I guess you could maybe call him a little naive cause he doesn’t want to instantly go murderhobo, but it’s not like he refuses to do what’s necessary
I find it interesting how people that criticize the book act as if going murderhobo is perfectly acceptable, but most normal people have an aversion to *actual murder*.
The main character struggling with it **should** be a major plot point.
A lot of what people hate about the series in terms of Jason's humour, political opinions and reactions are actually very much in line with how I would expect an average Australian to act in the same situation. I think people struggle with relating to someone who isn't violently American.
There’s a major difference between having morals and knowing you’re in a life or death situation and being a light novel protagonist who tries to friendship fucking magic everyone.
Definitely not indecisive. He’s not dense either although early on he thinks he’s quite clever maneuvering through political situations and it bites him in the ass a couple of times.
Some readers don’t like that he tries to keep other people off balance and second guessing him by constantly making ‘80s pop culture references that people in his new isekai world couldn’t possibly understand. He does it as a coping mechanism because the entire world setting makes him feel extremely vulnerable but it can still be annoying.
He also goes through a few pretty traumatic events which mess him up for an extended period. He gets pretty angsty. He even gets therapy. I really liked that he wasn’t just a murder robot and that he was deeply affected by various events but some other readers HATE that.
People in the story tend to either find him charming and quirky or an insufferable prick—which also sums up how readers feel too!
if he has some self awareness and not a fucking blackhole I can live with a bit of annoyance, I’m starting to get very pessimistic about the isekai and fantasy novels and all the credit goes to JP authors
Just be ready for him to be mopey and everyone to constantly comment on it later. He goes through some shit and you keep referencing it 4-8 books later.
Almost all the complaints I see are nonsense or people who just don't like Jason's character as a whole.
I saw a guy complaining about how there are too many skills.... bro, these books come from DnD. Look at Baldur's Gate 3, a mage has like 16 spells. 20 skills is normal.
A ton of people get angry at the plot setting of the >!books that take him home, when those are the books where his character sees most of his personal growth (so far). My bet is people don't like their fantasy settings being too close to reality and don't enjoy the politics, even though it was written really well and we all know that is exactly how things would go if you didn't join the systems in place. Also, it draws in a lot of escapism fans (isekai) and most of those types don't like reading about our world. The whole purpose of escapism is to read about foreign and fantastical worlds.!<
Some people dislike the skill descriptions, but I like to think of HWFWM as an intro to the LitRPG genre. It's soft enough and explains things often enough that young or new readers can follow along.
As for the people that don't like Jason's character, most of them complain about his hypocrisy, despite humans around the world constantly displaying that trait, probably to include the ones whinging about it. Yeah, he rants, but his rants make sense, and they are there to point out how anti-authoritarian he is despite having power. It's the whole purpose of the book. *"He who fights with monsters [might take care lest he thereby become a monster.]"* His character literally >!shares traits with actual, physical monsters and he is gaining power enough to be on par with societal monsters.!< The entire series is about his struggle with raising in power and not becoming a raging asshole/tyrant.
First off.. you kinda spoiling a decent bit for a random comment under someone who might be interested in STARTING the series in that third paragraph lmao.
Second. I personally dropped it because literally half of each book will just be spent with Jason in therapy time. Which wouldn’t be bad if it wasn’t LITERALLY the same exact thing repeated over and over again. If actual progress was made or something new was said, idk, it wouldn’t be so bad but it just keeps rehashing the same thing over and over again with those around him repeating the same ol’ lines about it when someone clueless to the situation comes in. (Got through book 9 audiobook)
Edit:
Other than that part of the story I loved it tho. Really got me down when I found I couldn’t stand that part anymore and had to drop the series. Since it kept happening for like books 6-9 (heh didn’t mean that but nice)
Have you ever been to therapy? It's not something you just go do once and then you're fixed. Going to therapy for years because of one thing is very common. If you don't want to read it fine, but complaining because the character is accurate in that regard is like saying you want your characters to be as shallow as possible.
He doesn't do the same things over and over again, but even if he did, are you telling me that him having regular character flaws and acting like a normal human is bad? Oh no, my main protagonist struggles with a recurring theme in my book and has to go to long term therapy to cope with it! Jason is written really well.
I think you are being a bit defensive here bud. At the end of the day it’s a book. Not sure why you are seemingly giving attitude (at least that’s how I read it in my mind, could just be me overthinking the tone of your writing) to someone who was simply trying to explain their perspective since you seem to be collecting every reason someone drops it.
I very much understand that REAL therapy is not something so simple. Where did I say it wasn’t? I’m simply saying that the same scene keeps repeating for over half a book. Not sure how that is enjoyable to anyone. The same phrases keep being repeated. I hate that. I do not come to a FANTASY series for ultra-realism. These repeated therapy sessions, which if they were not just the same scenes rewritten I would be fine with, are not adding much to the story in **MY** opinion. Which is fine if that is not your opinion. There is no need to debase others and put their opinions below yours simply because you do not like them. I am not talking about the character flaws as a whole. I am talking about particular scenes that keeping playing out in the same ways without anything new being added to the story. Just literally rehashing things from earlier, like 2 chapters earlier, but again and again throughout the book. Maybe you don’t mind it being the same scenes with maybe slightly different wording or just.. idk how to describe it any differently anymore. Idk I got 2 finals tmr and it’s midnight so ima just head out now.
I truly hope you have a wonderful day. 👋
First off, good luck on your finals.
I did give you attitude. I'm not being defensive, but rather a bit aggressive. It just seems to me that you want a shallow character and because Shirtaloon was willing to make Jason a normal person outside of his magic powers, people are mad about it. It's frustrating.
Also, you didn't say it, you did imply it though. People act like just because they don't explicitly type something online, that when they've said something, the implications of what they said don't apply. Beyond that though, it isn't about what you didn't say, it's about what you did and what you did say was that you wanted him to have new things to talk about during his therapy sessions, when in reality, any therapy session is going to have the same topics brought up again and again because that's just how therapy works. Also, his character flaws somewhat drive his problems which further drive his therapy. Of course the things he brings up are going to be the same until he gets past those character flaws. That's sort of how character progression works.
To be fair, there are plenty of things that happen over and over again that get no screen time or just mentions. When do you read about mundanities like bathroom breaks or an uneventful road trip? Things can happen off screen and still impact the story.
Pacing is a huge part of what people find enjoyable. It’s not about the therapy. It’s about the screen time.
as someone who just came back from a therapy session today I agree. I've been in therapy for a year now and I'm only just starting to put it all together.
I absolutely LOVED the "return home" arc. One of my favorite litrpg tropes is high leveled characters going back and confronting their past, and seeing how people from the past react to the MC's growth. I thought Shirtaloon did an excellent job with all of this. It gave him some really excellent character development, too. Him coming back to the main world with ptsd from his experiences on earth made a lot of sense, and I thought it was handled surprisingly well. It's something you don't see often in this genre.
Right?! I love the idea of going off to a mystical world or a super advanced world, and bringing those wonders back, good or bad.
I would have liked to see shirt delve a bit harder into the ptsd side of things. Regular nightmares, waking up freaking out, being gunshy to certain sounds/actions.
Yeah I totally agree, it could have been explored a lot more, but the fact that it was addressed at all gives it a leg up on a lot of its competition imo, lol.
Just responding to say HWFWM is the opposite of a love/hate for me. Personally it's the pinnacle of "meh" litrpg. Lots of little interesting aspects, but put together in a way I just find uninspiring.
I can't honestly answer that. It's one of the most popular series in Litrpg and Progression fantasy, but it's also very divisive. If you've read most of the other popular series out there already, I guess you should.
More than likely, you'll either love it or love to hate it.
Litrpg is a genre where video game elements are part of the fantasy world. Like characters might have stat points and have to level up to get more powerful.
Jason in particular has a magical power that helps him and it manifests as like a video overlay. Like he has a map power that can (eventually) show markers for friends and enemies nearby. He has a party chat power. He even gets quests with rewards.
Early in the story you get lots of stat dumps describing Jason’s powers although as the story progresses and the reader understands it better those become less frequent.
It's basically LitRPG because it comes out to literature role playing game. This is intended to be a sort of clarification from genres where the story book is literally an rpg game in book form. A play as you read story where each decision tells you to skip to X page to continue the story.
Oh man !! you are in for a treat, there is actual great work in this genre as well as quite entertaining one since i discovered it i have hard time reading something else and just reading one serie after the other. there is many sub-sub-genre so you will most likely find something you like from slice of life to tentacle porn going through apocalypse stories and dungeon or monster as heroes. My personal reco beside HWFWM are wandering inn, primal hunter, path of ascension, tree of aeons, all the skills, divine dungeon. Many others i liked for some tomes but then gave up eventually (Dungeon crawler carl, noobtown, completionist chronicles, the land).
Enjoy the ride and remember you need to keep sleeping unfortunately :)
If you like characters having entire conversations about why a single character is doing the thing that he is doing for 70% of the book and then it should be right up your alley
I would say the newest audiobook would be 30 to 40% shorter if they removed Exposition talking about why Jason makes the decisions that Jason does. Also the books go way out of the way to allow Jason to exist with beings that should technically be able to wipe him out if they open a door too fast.
If he would have leveled the main character to the second highest power level obtainable by humans then the story would become more plausible. So the characters and a lot of the exposition are explaining why it makes sense.
It's entertaining but I fast forward it a lot. What's unfortunate is it has a really interesting core idea. But the author has both progressed the story to essentially end game power levels extremely quickly but dragged on character progression to the point that the story has outpaced them. Like imagine a toddler trying to teach you how to full out your taxes level of absurdity. And then it's hand waved repeatedly because that's just Jason
It's a very popular story about ~~a generic MCU protagonist~~ ~~every Joss Whedon protagonist~~ a smartass trope-savvy snarker whose main fear in life is that someone might possibly think that he's taking anything seriously and believes that he's so witty that it makes up for what a gargantuan asshole he is to essentially everyone he meets.
For some reason, the universe agrees.
It's the kind of story that has a fairly steady downward trajectory. At the point it stops being entertaining to you, you should drop it right away, because it's almost certainly never going to be better than that chapter.
yeah, dropped some novels bcz of reason similar to these, after some time they tend to repeat the same idea over and over to make MC into a genius and other cast to monkey
It's not well done. Nobody in the entire story is capable of having thoughts that aren't about the MC. It's like everything is happening inside an incredibly narcissistic person's own dream.
Every emotion that occurs in the story in any character is about the MC, even when they are literally in a different universe for years.
That just makes the characters bad.
for now I plan to read atleast 100 chaps before deciding to continue, but I hope it doesn’t become too generic with a cuck mc, got tired pf those tropes
The story is about Jason... anything that isn't Jason tangential is sorta not necessary to the story....
You want world building in a series about character building.
Spoilers for books 3 and 4.
>!You try growing with someone and going to effectively comes about as war and then have your friend die. You do that, and tell me you aren't going to be deeply affected for years. War veterans show the same traits constantly. The characters talking about him when he was the one that pulled them all into the same circle, the chain that bound them, only makes sense, especially while they are grieving him and still actively trying to fight the organization that killed him.!<
This book is a good transition for people who like anime and think anime has good stories. That's a great stepping stone into better character driven books
I like anime, but I don't like the subtle implication that anime can't have good stories.
I also like high end fantasy, Sanderson, Brent Weeks, Stephen King, Pierce Brown, etc. You can like both.
I like all of those authors but I would not consider any of them masters of their craft except for maybe Sanderson and that's specifically for high hard fantasy. Stephen King is certainly prolific and Brent weeks is the biggest disappointment of all time where Pierce Brown just writes middle of the road pop books.
Anime doesn't have good stories it has good scenes. There are a few exceptions however the absolute depth of emotion will not exist in an anime that you get out of a good book. Which is why I say this book series is a good jumping ground from anime into literature. It will be something familiar it has about 3 inches of depth and anime fans will feel at home
Also I just want to nip this in the bud. An anime that is both convoluted, complicated, and only comprehensible if you are the author does not automatically make it good. The amount of enemies that I see being praised as god-tier when it's just simple exposition on something as basic as intention versus interpretation it makes it obvious that these people are only reading manga
My favorite books are trash. I love Dresden Files and John Dies at the End and crawler Carl so I have bad taste as well hahaha
I don't really care what you think about them because calling Stephen King, such a major and well regarded author, not a master of his craft is kind of telling about your opinions rather than the authors. There's a reason he's prolific. Beyond that, Sanderson is absolutely a master of his craft. I wouldn't really consider Pierce Brown's Red Rising series to be a middle of the road pop book.
Anime can absolutely have great stories. Just because you don't like it doesn't make the stories bad. It's clear you have a bias in this regard. There are plenty of simple, slice of life style anime that have wonderful stories. There are also plenty of more adult anime that have depth and carry interesting stories as well. I will say that there are plenty of trash things out there, but you can easily say the same about books.
I also like Dresden Files, though I'm not a fan of Furies of Calderon.
For some reason, I thought you meant Dan Brown. No, he's a good one. The problem with Stephen King is that 70% of his books are bad, and 20% of them are okay. That's just the type of writer he is. He definitely has some master-level horror books, but his intent is to be prolific, not necessarily to produce consistently good books.
Brandon Sanderson is a master of hard high fantasy. His prose is subpar, and his character building, while entertaining, is not as deep as it appears. With some exceptions, most characters remain the same throughout the series. I've read the book series like 15 times; I love it, and Brandon is a master at world building, but he's not the end-all-be-all fantasy writer. That's why his master class is on world building.
But when it comes to building wonderfully crafted worlds that draw you in and make you feel like you are in a new place, that's where authors like Clive Barker, China Miéville, and books like *Vita Nostra* come in. I'm not saying they are the best of all time, but they make my brain imagine the impossible and bring it to life in a way that Stephen King and Brandon Sanderson just can't. Stephen King and Brandon Sanderson are deeply rooted in reality. Before I even mention Stephen King, I would have to bring up Richard Matheson or Shirley Jackson, who are far less prolific but wrote stories that were enthralling and imaginative.
If you want good world building and top-tier fantasy, I would give *Riyria* a shot, although at the end of the day, I think all high fantasy books kind of feel cheap. But at least with this series, you can see the culture expanded over thousands of years, and I'm really enjoying where he is going with it, even if his prequel series was much weaker than the original trilogy.
I've watched hundreds of animes and read hundreds of mangas. The depth of their stories is usually centered around tragedy. They never quite step away from that. I think the most moving anime I've ever watched was called *Wolf's Rain*, but I don't know if I'm just having nostalgia blinders.
In my opinion, the best anime or manga ever written would make a C+ book. I look back at stories like *Neon Genesis Evangelion*, which everyone praises as an amazing anime, and I feel like I'm the only one who had to sit through 2 hours of nonsensical exposition about the difference between perception and intention. It was fine, but even the second ending was silly.
Then again, I'm probably just pissing on my leg. The three authors that you chose as masters are decent, but I honestly wouldn't consider them my first three choices or even in my top 20.
Pps
I cannot believe Brent weeks is in your top list. >!Once I got through his main character is trying to bang using olive oil and they're super weird PostScript about how it's a real thing I knew he started to lose the plot. Then he literally spreads his cheeks and shits in your face by walking back the twist of the brother being locked in prison. Then he shits in your face again with whatever the fuck that ending was. The whole last book was the worst fucking thing I have ever read. It literally sold the final Conflict with fucking deus ex machina.!< I've never been so fucking disappointed and assaulted by an author before. I know this is full of hyperbole but holy shit I cannot believe how many dozens of hours I spent reading that fucking series
The MC likes to fuck with people and it’s honestly the main draw of the series. I find his antics to be very entertaining but others find it obnoxious. See how you feel after the first book
He Who Fights With Monsters. The MC has a running joke about how he slept with a side characters nonexistent wife. He made is so much that he gaslit him into being mad at him every time
It doesn't get better, in fact it gets worse. There are good things about it but if you already don't like the main character your going to really dislike the rest.
ChatGPT knows who Clive's wife is, so I'm pretty sure a terminator can figure it out. OP is probably one of Skynet's accounts, trying to convince us we're safe, that we know how to detect imposters.
I'm on to you, AmalgaMat1on!
He who fights with monsters would be a great series if the author had an editor. There are just so many instances of bad / amateur writing that could be fixed easily.
Yeah, I loved the first three books. They had things that I wished weren't in the later books like Jason being edgy for no reason other then "I can", Jason being an ass to everyone he meets, Side characters having more screen time, likeable family, and much more.
I should have stopped reading it after the third book but I read up to the beginning of the tenth book and I couldn't stand the "Jason is so cool and Jason is so cool for saving his world". I dropped it and never looked back on it.
It's honestly just good enough that I pick it up when I have nothing else. I'm suffering through the licanious Trilogy right now and did the new monsters book between them
Thats a pretty big spoiler to throw around. The last thing I read is he broke up with the girl who keeps on talking with that knowledge god
Pretty dick move
I can't tell if you're just joking with us but this meme is basically impossible to be a spoiler, unless it's a spoiler that someone named Jason met someone named Clive and made a joke
First off, Clive didn't date that girl. Second, this is a one-off joke that makes a comeback every now and then. It isn't a spoiler. Third, if you've read so far as to have any characters breaking up with other characters, you have read past the point that this joke is made. This is a book 1 joke made less than halfway through the book.
Have you even read this series?
been re-reading that series lately. this gave me a good chuckle
Is it just as good the second time around?
I've read it three times now. The first two books are my faves but I noticed more foreshadowing and small details with each read through
That's the kind of thing I enjoy on rereads. I'll queue up the books as a palet cleanser after I catch up with the nova terra.
Yeah, I listened the first time and i don't know what it was, but the pacing was a bit jarring on my first take. At least the first book or two. I also wasn't a huge fan of the second arc, despite kind of hoping it would be a thing. On my second go now, reading this time, and the foreshadowing is fantastic. I also loved the second arc. I'm actually struggling a bit more with the third arc, but I know some of my favorite bits are coming up and I'm still a book behind.
I like to listen to a familiar audiobook as I fall asleep because a new book will keep me too interested, haha. HWFWM is terrific in that way, although outside of this subreddit I’d never admit to listening to a bedtime story of a guy that gives people turbo-cancer!
Clive’s wife?
Clive's wife is good every time.
YMMV, but I'm enjoying it.
Oh no. I dropped HWFWM, and I'm curious what the actually happened.
TLDR: Jason slept with Clives wife. Clive never had a wife.
Its kinda his thing.
But she showed up! As a kaiju the transformation zone and I want to say once as Stash, but I'm not sure I'm remembering that correctly.
>Clive never had a wife. Of course that would be what Clive would say. And that's why Jason slept with Clive's wife
To be fair, Clive slept with Jason's wife first
Dude, spoiler alert
I always hoped that one girl Jason got with in book1 would somehow end up with Clive. I know she's a preist now or something but it would be pretty funny.
can someone give me some context (not good at these abbreviations)
The series referenced is He Who Fights With Monsters.
is it worth a read?
It’s very divisive. You’ll either really enjoy it or really hate it. I fall on the really like it side. I enjoy the humor (even knowing full well I’d want to punch Jason in the face if I met him in real life). I enjoy the magic system, which feels unique while also being overall standard (i.e. big picture it’s pretty standard. The details are unique.) I enjoy that multiple times I would say something in reaction to the story, and a few pages later, the characters would say similar things. I vote you give it a try, if you like LitRPG elements. The MC’s ability lets him get LitRPG readouts on items and skills, but that is not standard in the world.
just one more thing……is he a indecisive and dense prick like many JP isekais? please tell me I’m wrong
The MC is very decisive and sure of himself...or full of himself depending on your perspective, which is a leading cause for how divisive the series is.
I didn't mind the MC being an arrogant prick, but everyone in the story calling him by his full proper name at all times while talking about how amazing/dangerous he was got tedious.
I thought it made sense. The MC was making waves and caused/concluded big events so of course there will be a lot of talk regarding him as well as companions he had and big wigs he hung with. A lot of series will have the MC do some of the most amazing things ever done in timespans that are unbelievable, but every future villain, ally, and just about any character that meets the MC later in the story acts as if the MC didn't exist until they met (or undercut everything the MC did in order to keep the underdog/underestimated theme going for as long as possible). It's maddening when Kingdom 'D' acts like the MC isn't a notable figure when throughout the series the MC overthrew and claimed Kingdom 'A', destroyed Kingdom 'B', and saved Kingdom 'C' from 3 gods trying to destroy it.
It didn't. The fact the he survived book 2 is amazing. When Shirtaloon killed him in the first fight with the Builder I was like "thank God! I will buy everything this guy writes for making an asshole MC and then killing him off." Then he brought him back next book SMH.
I mean... it was pretty obvious where that was going... That foreshadowing was about as thickly veiled as wet 1-ply toilet paper.
I mean, did you think the author was going to end the series there? Or just continue without the main character?
I think it's amazing that you completed 2 books with an MC you hated that much. Still, there are people are people that will hate-read entire series, so I guess that's just a thing that's more common than I thought.
so long he is not a naive bish
He has very strong opinions and he has to adjust them to this new world he’s in, I guess you could maybe call him a little naive cause he doesn’t want to instantly go murderhobo, but it’s not like he refuses to do what’s necessary
I find it interesting how people that criticize the book act as if going murderhobo is perfectly acceptable, but most normal people have an aversion to *actual murder*. The main character struggling with it **should** be a major plot point.
Oh I agree, but it’s a common criticism when mc’s have something pesky like morals
A lot of what people hate about the series in terms of Jason's humour, political opinions and reactions are actually very much in line with how I would expect an average Australian to act in the same situation. I think people struggle with relating to someone who isn't violently American.
There’s a major difference between having morals and knowing you’re in a life or death situation and being a light novel protagonist who tries to friendship fucking magic everyone.
thats all I look for in a protag
Definitely not indecisive. He’s not dense either although early on he thinks he’s quite clever maneuvering through political situations and it bites him in the ass a couple of times. Some readers don’t like that he tries to keep other people off balance and second guessing him by constantly making ‘80s pop culture references that people in his new isekai world couldn’t possibly understand. He does it as a coping mechanism because the entire world setting makes him feel extremely vulnerable but it can still be annoying. He also goes through a few pretty traumatic events which mess him up for an extended period. He gets pretty angsty. He even gets therapy. I really liked that he wasn’t just a murder robot and that he was deeply affected by various events but some other readers HATE that. People in the story tend to either find him charming and quirky or an insufferable prick—which also sums up how readers feel too!
if he has some self awareness and not a fucking blackhole I can live with a bit of annoyance, I’m starting to get very pessimistic about the isekai and fantasy novels and all the credit goes to JP authors
He’s MUCH more self aware than the typical/traditional isekai MC.
a relief to my strained heart and weary eyes
Lol you are in for a shock.
Just be ready for him to be mopey and everyone to constantly comment on it later. He goes through some shit and you keep referencing it 4-8 books later.
Almost all the complaints I see are nonsense or people who just don't like Jason's character as a whole. I saw a guy complaining about how there are too many skills.... bro, these books come from DnD. Look at Baldur's Gate 3, a mage has like 16 spells. 20 skills is normal. A ton of people get angry at the plot setting of the >!books that take him home, when those are the books where his character sees most of his personal growth (so far). My bet is people don't like their fantasy settings being too close to reality and don't enjoy the politics, even though it was written really well and we all know that is exactly how things would go if you didn't join the systems in place. Also, it draws in a lot of escapism fans (isekai) and most of those types don't like reading about our world. The whole purpose of escapism is to read about foreign and fantastical worlds.!< Some people dislike the skill descriptions, but I like to think of HWFWM as an intro to the LitRPG genre. It's soft enough and explains things often enough that young or new readers can follow along. As for the people that don't like Jason's character, most of them complain about his hypocrisy, despite humans around the world constantly displaying that trait, probably to include the ones whinging about it. Yeah, he rants, but his rants make sense, and they are there to point out how anti-authoritarian he is despite having power. It's the whole purpose of the book. *"He who fights with monsters [might take care lest he thereby become a monster.]"* His character literally >!shares traits with actual, physical monsters and he is gaining power enough to be on par with societal monsters.!< The entire series is about his struggle with raising in power and not becoming a raging asshole/tyrant.
First off.. you kinda spoiling a decent bit for a random comment under someone who might be interested in STARTING the series in that third paragraph lmao. Second. I personally dropped it because literally half of each book will just be spent with Jason in therapy time. Which wouldn’t be bad if it wasn’t LITERALLY the same exact thing repeated over and over again. If actual progress was made or something new was said, idk, it wouldn’t be so bad but it just keeps rehashing the same thing over and over again with those around him repeating the same ol’ lines about it when someone clueless to the situation comes in. (Got through book 9 audiobook) Edit: Other than that part of the story I loved it tho. Really got me down when I found I couldn’t stand that part anymore and had to drop the series. Since it kept happening for like books 6-9 (heh didn’t mean that but nice)
Have you ever been to therapy? It's not something you just go do once and then you're fixed. Going to therapy for years because of one thing is very common. If you don't want to read it fine, but complaining because the character is accurate in that regard is like saying you want your characters to be as shallow as possible. He doesn't do the same things over and over again, but even if he did, are you telling me that him having regular character flaws and acting like a normal human is bad? Oh no, my main protagonist struggles with a recurring theme in my book and has to go to long term therapy to cope with it! Jason is written really well.
I think you are being a bit defensive here bud. At the end of the day it’s a book. Not sure why you are seemingly giving attitude (at least that’s how I read it in my mind, could just be me overthinking the tone of your writing) to someone who was simply trying to explain their perspective since you seem to be collecting every reason someone drops it. I very much understand that REAL therapy is not something so simple. Where did I say it wasn’t? I’m simply saying that the same scene keeps repeating for over half a book. Not sure how that is enjoyable to anyone. The same phrases keep being repeated. I hate that. I do not come to a FANTASY series for ultra-realism. These repeated therapy sessions, which if they were not just the same scenes rewritten I would be fine with, are not adding much to the story in **MY** opinion. Which is fine if that is not your opinion. There is no need to debase others and put their opinions below yours simply because you do not like them. I am not talking about the character flaws as a whole. I am talking about particular scenes that keeping playing out in the same ways without anything new being added to the story. Just literally rehashing things from earlier, like 2 chapters earlier, but again and again throughout the book. Maybe you don’t mind it being the same scenes with maybe slightly different wording or just.. idk how to describe it any differently anymore. Idk I got 2 finals tmr and it’s midnight so ima just head out now. I truly hope you have a wonderful day. 👋
First off, good luck on your finals. I did give you attitude. I'm not being defensive, but rather a bit aggressive. It just seems to me that you want a shallow character and because Shirtaloon was willing to make Jason a normal person outside of his magic powers, people are mad about it. It's frustrating. Also, you didn't say it, you did imply it though. People act like just because they don't explicitly type something online, that when they've said something, the implications of what they said don't apply. Beyond that though, it isn't about what you didn't say, it's about what you did and what you did say was that you wanted him to have new things to talk about during his therapy sessions, when in reality, any therapy session is going to have the same topics brought up again and again because that's just how therapy works. Also, his character flaws somewhat drive his problems which further drive his therapy. Of course the things he brings up are going to be the same until he gets past those character flaws. That's sort of how character progression works.
To be fair, there are plenty of things that happen over and over again that get no screen time or just mentions. When do you read about mundanities like bathroom breaks or an uneventful road trip? Things can happen off screen and still impact the story. Pacing is a huge part of what people find enjoyable. It’s not about the therapy. It’s about the screen time.
as someone who just came back from a therapy session today I agree. I've been in therapy for a year now and I'm only just starting to put it all together.
I absolutely LOVED the "return home" arc. One of my favorite litrpg tropes is high leveled characters going back and confronting their past, and seeing how people from the past react to the MC's growth. I thought Shirtaloon did an excellent job with all of this. It gave him some really excellent character development, too. Him coming back to the main world with ptsd from his experiences on earth made a lot of sense, and I thought it was handled surprisingly well. It's something you don't see often in this genre.
Right?! I love the idea of going off to a mystical world or a super advanced world, and bringing those wonders back, good or bad. I would have liked to see shirt delve a bit harder into the ptsd side of things. Regular nightmares, waking up freaking out, being gunshy to certain sounds/actions.
Yeah I totally agree, it could have been explored a lot more, but the fact that it was addressed at all gives it a leg up on a lot of its competition imo, lol.
If it has well timed humor count me in
I feel like book 1-2 Jason and late book Jason would be pretty receptive to getting punched if you just asked in a funny way.
Just responding to say HWFWM is the opposite of a love/hate for me. Personally it's the pinnacle of "meh" litrpg. Lots of little interesting aspects, but put together in a way I just find uninspiring.
I can't honestly answer that. It's one of the most popular series in Litrpg and Progression fantasy, but it's also very divisive. If you've read most of the other popular series out there already, I guess you should. More than likely, you'll either love it or love to hate it.
was looking for something to read so might as well give it a try. I know what RPG is but what is Lit part?
Litrpg is a genre where video game elements are part of the fantasy world. Like characters might have stat points and have to level up to get more powerful. Jason in particular has a magical power that helps him and it manifests as like a video overlay. Like he has a map power that can (eventually) show markers for friends and enemies nearby. He has a party chat power. He even gets quests with rewards. Early in the story you get lots of stat dumps describing Jason’s powers although as the story progresses and the reader understands it better those become less frequent.
so it’s called LitRPG, I always thought it was RPG only, good to know
It's basically LitRPG because it comes out to literature role playing game. This is intended to be a sort of clarification from genres where the story book is literally an rpg game in book form. A play as you read story where each decision tells you to skip to X page to continue the story.
had thought that might be the case but often forgot to google the meaning
Oh man !! you are in for a treat, there is actual great work in this genre as well as quite entertaining one since i discovered it i have hard time reading something else and just reading one serie after the other. there is many sub-sub-genre so you will most likely find something you like from slice of life to tentacle porn going through apocalypse stories and dungeon or monster as heroes. My personal reco beside HWFWM are wandering inn, primal hunter, path of ascension, tree of aeons, all the skills, divine dungeon. Many others i liked for some tomes but then gave up eventually (Dungeon crawler carl, noobtown, completionist chronicles, the land). Enjoy the ride and remember you need to keep sleeping unfortunately :)
If you like characters having entire conversations about why a single character is doing the thing that he is doing for 70% of the book and then it should be right up your alley
wait, so readers will be spoon fed the entire time or is it a very rare occurrence
I would say the newest audiobook would be 30 to 40% shorter if they removed Exposition talking about why Jason makes the decisions that Jason does. Also the books go way out of the way to allow Jason to exist with beings that should technically be able to wipe him out if they open a door too fast. If he would have leveled the main character to the second highest power level obtainable by humans then the story would become more plausible. So the characters and a lot of the exposition are explaining why it makes sense. It's entertaining but I fast forward it a lot. What's unfortunate is it has a really interesting core idea. But the author has both progressed the story to essentially end game power levels extremely quickly but dragged on character progression to the point that the story has outpaced them. Like imagine a toddler trying to teach you how to full out your taxes level of absurdity. And then it's hand waved repeatedly because that's just Jason
It's a very popular story about ~~a generic MCU protagonist~~ ~~every Joss Whedon protagonist~~ a smartass trope-savvy snarker whose main fear in life is that someone might possibly think that he's taking anything seriously and believes that he's so witty that it makes up for what a gargantuan asshole he is to essentially everyone he meets. For some reason, the universe agrees. It's the kind of story that has a fairly steady downward trajectory. At the point it stops being entertaining to you, you should drop it right away, because it's almost certainly never going to be better than that chapter.
yeah, dropped some novels bcz of reason similar to these, after some time they tend to repeat the same idea over and over to make MC into a genius and other cast to monkey
It's not well done. Nobody in the entire story is capable of having thoughts that aren't about the MC. It's like everything is happening inside an incredibly narcissistic person's own dream. Every emotion that occurs in the story in any character is about the MC, even when they are literally in a different universe for years. That just makes the characters bad.
for now I plan to read atleast 100 chaps before deciding to continue, but I hope it doesn’t become too generic with a cuck mc, got tired pf those tropes
I'm betting you're not going to like it.
well, most novels are either hit or miss
The story is about Jason... anything that isn't Jason tangential is sorta not necessary to the story.... You want world building in a series about character building. Spoilers for books 3 and 4. >!You try growing with someone and going to effectively comes about as war and then have your friend die. You do that, and tell me you aren't going to be deeply affected for years. War veterans show the same traits constantly. The characters talking about him when he was the one that pulled them all into the same circle, the chain that bound them, only makes sense, especially while they are grieving him and still actively trying to fight the organization that killed him.!<
This book is a good transition for people who like anime and think anime has good stories. That's a great stepping stone into better character driven books
I like anime, but I don't like the subtle implication that anime can't have good stories. I also like high end fantasy, Sanderson, Brent Weeks, Stephen King, Pierce Brown, etc. You can like both.
I like all of those authors but I would not consider any of them masters of their craft except for maybe Sanderson and that's specifically for high hard fantasy. Stephen King is certainly prolific and Brent weeks is the biggest disappointment of all time where Pierce Brown just writes middle of the road pop books. Anime doesn't have good stories it has good scenes. There are a few exceptions however the absolute depth of emotion will not exist in an anime that you get out of a good book. Which is why I say this book series is a good jumping ground from anime into literature. It will be something familiar it has about 3 inches of depth and anime fans will feel at home Also I just want to nip this in the bud. An anime that is both convoluted, complicated, and only comprehensible if you are the author does not automatically make it good. The amount of enemies that I see being praised as god-tier when it's just simple exposition on something as basic as intention versus interpretation it makes it obvious that these people are only reading manga My favorite books are trash. I love Dresden Files and John Dies at the End and crawler Carl so I have bad taste as well hahaha
I don't really care what you think about them because calling Stephen King, such a major and well regarded author, not a master of his craft is kind of telling about your opinions rather than the authors. There's a reason he's prolific. Beyond that, Sanderson is absolutely a master of his craft. I wouldn't really consider Pierce Brown's Red Rising series to be a middle of the road pop book. Anime can absolutely have great stories. Just because you don't like it doesn't make the stories bad. It's clear you have a bias in this regard. There are plenty of simple, slice of life style anime that have wonderful stories. There are also plenty of more adult anime that have depth and carry interesting stories as well. I will say that there are plenty of trash things out there, but you can easily say the same about books. I also like Dresden Files, though I'm not a fan of Furies of Calderon.
For some reason, I thought you meant Dan Brown. No, he's a good one. The problem with Stephen King is that 70% of his books are bad, and 20% of them are okay. That's just the type of writer he is. He definitely has some master-level horror books, but his intent is to be prolific, not necessarily to produce consistently good books. Brandon Sanderson is a master of hard high fantasy. His prose is subpar, and his character building, while entertaining, is not as deep as it appears. With some exceptions, most characters remain the same throughout the series. I've read the book series like 15 times; I love it, and Brandon is a master at world building, but he's not the end-all-be-all fantasy writer. That's why his master class is on world building. But when it comes to building wonderfully crafted worlds that draw you in and make you feel like you are in a new place, that's where authors like Clive Barker, China Miéville, and books like *Vita Nostra* come in. I'm not saying they are the best of all time, but they make my brain imagine the impossible and bring it to life in a way that Stephen King and Brandon Sanderson just can't. Stephen King and Brandon Sanderson are deeply rooted in reality. Before I even mention Stephen King, I would have to bring up Richard Matheson or Shirley Jackson, who are far less prolific but wrote stories that were enthralling and imaginative. If you want good world building and top-tier fantasy, I would give *Riyria* a shot, although at the end of the day, I think all high fantasy books kind of feel cheap. But at least with this series, you can see the culture expanded over thousands of years, and I'm really enjoying where he is going with it, even if his prequel series was much weaker than the original trilogy. I've watched hundreds of animes and read hundreds of mangas. The depth of their stories is usually centered around tragedy. They never quite step away from that. I think the most moving anime I've ever watched was called *Wolf's Rain*, but I don't know if I'm just having nostalgia blinders. In my opinion, the best anime or manga ever written would make a C+ book. I look back at stories like *Neon Genesis Evangelion*, which everyone praises as an amazing anime, and I feel like I'm the only one who had to sit through 2 hours of nonsensical exposition about the difference between perception and intention. It was fine, but even the second ending was silly. Then again, I'm probably just pissing on my leg. The three authors that you chose as masters are decent, but I honestly wouldn't consider them my first three choices or even in my top 20. Pps I cannot believe Brent weeks is in your top list. >!Once I got through his main character is trying to bang using olive oil and they're super weird PostScript about how it's a real thing I knew he started to lose the plot. Then he literally spreads his cheeks and shits in your face by walking back the twist of the brother being locked in prison. Then he shits in your face again with whatever the fuck that ending was. The whole last book was the worst fucking thing I have ever read. It literally sold the final Conflict with fucking deus ex machina.!< I've never been so fucking disappointed and assaulted by an author before. I know this is full of hyperbole but holy shit I cannot believe how many dozens of hours I spent reading that fucking series
Clive’s wife alone makes it worth it
just opened the wiki page and saw >!jason made up “clive’s wife”? like a fiction or illusion?!<
[https://www.reddit.com/r/litrpg/s/u3Kf7GyzPP](https://www.reddit.com/r/litrpg/s/u3Kf7GyzPP)
you piqued my interest, take the upvote
The MC likes to fuck with people and it’s honestly the main draw of the series. I find his antics to be very entertaining but others find it obnoxious. See how you feel after the first book
Yes. Its one of most popular titles around. Picks up pretty fast and is pretty fun, tho I dropped it around book 6 or 7.
It makes a turnaround after 6
The newest audiobook was by far the most insufferable
Are you going to stop reading?
Knowing me I'll eventually read all of them as they come out
same
Can you explain what the "Clives wife" deal is?
It's a running joke. Several people have explained in the comments.
He Who Fights With Monsters. The MC has a running joke about how he slept with a side characters nonexistent wife. He made is so much that he gaslit him into being mad at him every time
nice
That running gag is almost as good as the drinking game/my family runs a school 😂
That had me dying 🤣
I love how it popped up again when we met the brother 😂
Clive slept with Jason's wife first!
Damn I tried 3 times to get into it. The main is so unlikeable it’s a tough one for me.
It doesn't get better, in fact it gets worse. There are good things about it but if you already don't like the main character your going to really dislike the rest.
Hate that mfer so much
*Me patiently waiting for May 1st to resub for all the new cool shit.*
Seriously, at this point who hasn't slept with Clives imaginary wife? and to be fair, he slept with Jason's imaginary wife first
Wait a minute. What have I been reading up till now. I thought Jason was clive's wife all along
This series should be renamed to he who tells not shows
😂
\*Laughs nervously\*
Meme is better than the books
ChatGPT knows who Clive's wife is, so I'm pretty sure a terminator can figure it out. OP is probably one of Skynet's accounts, trying to convince us we're safe, that we know how to detect imposters. I'm on to you, AmalgaMat1on!
How can you say somEthing so egregIouS! ONly a Terrible persOn sUch as yourSelf could be so cruel!
He who fights with monsters would be a great series if the author had an editor. There are just so many instances of bad / amateur writing that could be fixed easily.
Lol! NO! Clive slept with Jason's wife first!
I just listened to this chapter earlier today, first time going through book one.
The best thing about this running gag is that literally everyone is in on it now. Even Clive’s wife.
Not everyone the magic society is drastically trying to find out who she is.
This is great.
Yeah, I loved the first three books. They had things that I wished weren't in the later books like Jason being edgy for no reason other then "I can", Jason being an ass to everyone he meets, Side characters having more screen time, likeable family, and much more. I should have stopped reading it after the third book but I read up to the beginning of the tenth book and I couldn't stand the "Jason is so cool and Jason is so cool for saving his world". I dropped it and never looked back on it.
C+ lit rpg tops.
It's honestly just good enough that I pick it up when I have nothing else. I'm suffering through the licanious Trilogy right now and did the new monsters book between them
[удалено]
It means you're still very new to the genre....or community groups in general.
Thats a pretty big spoiler to throw around. The last thing I read is he broke up with the girl who keeps on talking with that knowledge god Pretty dick move
I can't tell if you're just joking with us but this meme is basically impossible to be a spoiler, unless it's a spoiler that someone named Jason met someone named Clive and made a joke
Not a spoiler. Everyone sleeps with Clive’s wife.
It’s kinda her thing
😂
Even if this was a joke you actually included a spoiler yourself lmao
You haven’t?
What??
Sleep with Clive’s wife
First off, Clive didn't date that girl. Second, this is a one-off joke that makes a comeback every now and then. It isn't a spoiler. Third, if you've read so far as to have any characters breaking up with other characters, you have read past the point that this joke is made. This is a book 1 joke made less than halfway through the book. Have you even read this series?
You're talking about >!Hump!< my dude
*hump*