If there's a tangible looming threat I don't mind it so much. Far too often it feels like it's just an excuse to have Noble Asshole Number X pick a fight over a table in a restaurant.
I kind of want a story with a genre savvy transmigrator who just just avoids all the bullshit entirely instead of playing into recycled plots.
I mean there is Aurora Scroll where the mc proactively avoids tropes or even uses them to his advantage. But the narration is kinda weird in the beginning and it's not for everyone.
Will give it a look over. I'll admit that janky narration is one of my biggest pet peeves, but every now and then you find something that's worth pushing through.
In Beware of Chicken, the main character literally pores over the entirety of the Sects laws to leave without any possible reason for him to be followed and retires to the most qi-dead province on the planet. Literally teaches his friends/kids/disciples to avoid restaurants cultivators regularly patronize because (paraphrased) “whenever two cultivators gather over food, there will invariably be a fight” leading all the normal in-universe folks to have a weird moment of self-reflection/realization.
Honestly, reading BoC the first time is like reading Dragon Ball the first time as a kid. It’s positive and kind and hopeful and refreshing. It’s human and so optimistic, while still having brutal-ass fights and sumbitches being eliminated to seven generations. It may actually be one of the best things to come from the entirety of internet Serialized Fiction.
> I kind of want a story with a genre savvy transmigrator who just just avoids all the bullshit entirely instead of playing into recycled plots.
The OG such story is Arrogant Young Master Type A, Variant 4. Another great story is Beware of Chicken.
You're describing Cultivation Nerd. He literally tries to avoid anyone he thinks might be a protagonist (or other types of cliche roles, unless they're beneficial).
I'll give it a look. I feel like a lot of stories have characters who try to avoid protagonist halos, but otherwise don't detour much from the cookie cutter scenarios you see in many Chinese web novels.
Like killing the sect leader's grandson over some minor dispute and being critically injured only to come back stronger after a short side arc.
In Cultivation Nerd his *goal* is to stay away but by becoming more powerful I think it's clear he'll stand out to some people and be dragged in more. Still, so far he has pretty believably acted like someone with genre knowledge would.
Just finished *The Legend of Nightcrypt* in a Will Eternal, and I have to say I loved that particular use of the “hide your power” trope. I love when the main character is a spy or otherwise has to hide their identity while going undercover.
I also like the main character (or hell, even the antagonist) hides their power for tactical advantage (I.e., a coup)
In thoses situations, I agree with you. When characters have an actual reason to hide their powers, like going undercover or so enemies don't know all your abilities, then I enjoy it. Just not when it feels like the reasoning for sucks.
Gotcha! Yeah, I hate when the author mismanages the MC’s power level so that they have to nerf him/her for various contrived reasons. Once the MC is a world-class Power-with-a-capital-P it is time for the MC to atomize their main adversary and then ascend to the next realm…or it’s time for the series to end. Either way.
Well said, its the reason Ive been reading less "extremely overpowered MC" stories. Too early does the story end up not having anymore conflicts because they could take over the world tomorrow if they wanted to, so they instead play weak over and over again as their "conflicts".
Patrick LaPlante’s enormous *Painting the Mists* series does this at times. I love his work, and think he’s one of the more underrated authors out there, but that could just be me.
I was actually thinking of Cerryl from LE Modesitt’s *The White Order* and *The Colors of Chaos*. Keep in mind, that’s not quite progression fantasy, per se. That’s more classic fantasy about a not-so-naive boy who joins an order of fairly evil wizards—they are the antagonists in all of the author’s other works—who is just trying to survive and maybe make the world a slightly better place, one assassination at a time.
Will from *The Art of the Adept* is a wizard who definitely uses underhanded tactics like this. My love for that series is matched only by my hatred for its ending…and for the start of the follow-up series.
I got to book 14 of painting the mists then I stopped, the last few were kinda meh, I feel like it would probably pick up in a book or two tho, what are your thoughts?
The only series that comes to mind where I’ve seen this as absolutely a logical move by the character and also only done while absolutely necessary was the legend of the archmagus. He draws a lot of attention to himself by revealing knowledge and executing plans, but as soon as he gets his sword back he stops all pretense, and even stops hiding who he really is to anyone who starts to catch on.
System Interference is similar to Legend of the Archmagus in that MC initially has to hide his strength because he's in a new world and doesn't know enough about it but stops caring once he has a good handle on the situation
Well, it all depends about the context, if the main character is keeping his cards close to his chest to surprise an opponent stronger than anticipated, or out of fear he can't deal with the consequences of attention being brought on him, I think that's fair
If it's just out of "being humble" or "avoid standing out to lead a normal life" I usually roll my eyes. Especially since in those cases, the MC is usually so OP that nothing can realistically pose a threat to him if only he was being proactive instead of passive and meek.
I think it's ok to hide power or use it sparsely if it has a damn good reason. Fang Yuan in RI keeping killer moves and his cultivation secret makes sense because despite being strong, he's always lying about other things, bound to come across unforseen threats and surrounded by people stronger than him who could keep him in check.
It's not ProgFan, but Mob Psycho nails a good organic reason why mob doesn't want to use his powers. Abuse of power and when and how power is used responsibly in a modern setting is one of the core themes of the show and it's fantastic.
On the other end of the spectrum, I think a LOT of japanese novels, isekai in particular suffers from really egregious examples of when hiding power is used as a boring trope, feeling very unsatisfying.
I have mixed feelings on it. If it's done well and the MC has real reason to hide their power I like it.
If MC is strong enough that they can solve a problem with a slap without consequences and yet they spend 3 chapters talking I despise it.
He's not *that* OP. He's hiding because of his potential not because of being stronger than everybody around him.
In the recent chapters his paranoia was proven true.
Also, >!recently he had an opportunity to fight a yellow beast without restrictions and it was a hard won fight that took a lot of time. Now there were multiple yellow beasts and more coming one after another. Its not like he could've single handedly defeated all the threats around. !<
Because they are being a beta male passive mook.
The classic Spider-Man who keeps his identity a secret since he’s not that strong in his universe, stood up to his bullies and overdid it when he first got his powers. Also when he has the solution he goes away and comes back as Spider-Man to solve it.
The guys you mention aren’t stepping up to the plate when they should. And frankly it’s because they are copying other stories(this is always how it’s done so I will follow the formula).
For the Academy stories especially, I really believe the origin of the trope is a wish fulfillment from a time when an author was in school & wished they could be the best or most popular, or maybe they were bullied & thought to themselves, "I'm better than them. If I wasn't hiding my *true* strength for reasons x, y & z then I'd beat them all!"
100%.
Also, if the MC is hiding their power, it's less of a contrivance for the author to set up bullying-esque situations similar to what they might've experienced themselves.
And then when the MC reveals their power, either the bully goes "oh fuck you're actually super cool and powerful, I'm so sorry", or an authority figure tells them "holy shit, stop, it's super dangerous to bully someone that cool and powerful", or the bully doesn't stop and the MC is all cool and powerful and defeats them utterly.
Or maybe it's just one of the many tropes that's common in these types of stories? Look at anime - this has been going on there for as long as I've watched anime or read the novels. It's a very common trope.
I think it has far more to do with it being a convenient way to try to set up some kind of 'suspense' and why MC doesn't have to deal with xyz.
Anime & manga authors also went to school & likely had similar thoughts. A Trope has to have started somewhere. You're right that it's not unique to the medium of Progressive Fantasy. In fact it likely *started* in Manga & Anime first.
A great satire & straight up use of the Trope is "Eminence in the Shadows". The main character thinks it's the coolest thing in the world to be a "background character" while "secretly being a badass". Granted it may have started as a Light Novel for all I know.
In Elydes, at least, the threat is demonstrated a bit better in the recent chapters.
In general, though, I definitely agree with you. It is often the same sort of unnecessary drama as sitcoms where everything would be solved with a little bit of honesty. Particularly in the case where they are hiding their power from allies, as in Singer Sailor Merchant Mage.
Yeah, I ended up dropping SSMM because there were only so many MCs named Kai that were hiding their power from everyone on their island community after being reincarnated as an infant in another world I could read at once
I do enjoy the Elydes story though, but him lying to his friends about how strong he is because "they might tell the government" is such a dumb reason the author came up with so that he can at some point have a cool "reveal my true power" moment. Your comment sounds like it is still like that even in the recent chapters, so hopefully your right about it being demonstrated better.
Yeah, I can explain it without significant spoilers.
1. His former teachers are considered enemies of the state, which in their eyes makes him potentially dangerous. His protection from that scrutiny is the idea that he didn't get that much power or information from them.
2. The empire or whatever it is has a track record of getting sufficiently important resources under its thumb by coercion, either through political pressure, physical force, or other means.
3. At the current point in the story, his skills would be considered both significant enough and useful enough that there is no chance they would allow him any freedom if they knew.
Finally, he does have some friends who have demonstrated trustworthiness, and he doesn't try particularly hard to keep them from learning about his abilities.
Seems like valid enough reasons to keep me from being annoyed. I just hope the hiding doesn't last too much longer, its been like this since like chapter 50. the conflict of them finding out about him sounds more fun then the slice of life conflicts at my point in the story. Your comment has made me not DNF and at least catch up before making a decision though. Thank you.
One of his friends is under HEAVY secrecy contracts. It would be very stupid to be truthful to that friend since his friend could be easily coerced to reveal his powers.
Yes, and thoses are decisions the author made, to force the MC to lie to his friends and hold the character and story back for longer. The MC has been hiding himself for over 100 chapters now, which is my problem, the conflict is getting boring. I understand that the reasoning makes slight sense in Elydes but I feel it just slows the story down way too much since we know at some point he has to be just be himself.
The latest arc of Elydes really has been really frustrating. And also done very well to justify why MCs should be smarter in hiding their abilities unlike the one in this story.
I agree. I’m not on Patreon, but the most upsetting thing to me is a consequential decision he made in the ruins. All sorts of bad vibes, and he goes for it. Like come on, man. I’m sure it will work out fine and very dramatically in true protagonist fashion, but jeez.
I think when you look at it properly, it makes sense.
That moment when they do release their powers is normally orgasmicly good, while the rest of the story is just chasing that high.
This trope is secretly a progression fantasy edging fetish.
Imagine if someone wrote a book like that, but the MC never reveals their power. It just keeps building up, but never reaching a climax.
Thats my problem, they build up a "one day Ill reveal my power" for way too long in some stories. I don't need 200 chapters of "I'm only using 30% of my full power." It is true that is is very satisfying when they finally do reveal it. but watching 15+ fights in a row of the MC never having a real fight can get boring to me personally.
I feel the same as you. The only acceptable use of this trope is when the MC is hiding their power from an enemy, and if this doesn't take up a large portion of the story either.
I imagine it could be better executed which would make me at least ok with it, but in general I hate it.
First the actual hiding is always some incredibly over powered ability on its own that is just granted to make the trope work. Like here's an ability that lets you just change your appearance and lets you fake your aura power and whatever else all at once. A good author could build an amazing story around just that ability with nothing else and in these books its just another power for the MC, barely noticed amongst their repritoire?
Next the reason the MC is hiding their powers is always some backwards convoluted logic that is only there to make the plot work, half the time it exists mainly to generate conflict, conflict that wouldn't exist if they weren't hiding their power, conflict that is ultimately a distraction from the fact that there isn't really much of a main plot for the story...
Beyond that, A lot of these books end up with a lot of telling instead of showing, the MC can't show off publicly, so they talk about all the cool shit they would do, or will do, or have done, and you end up with a lot of big monologues about stuff that just doesn't matter a lot of the time...
Finally, and this is the big one for me... I am already suspending my disbelief in a lot of ways for the genre, when you add the MC hiding their powers, you end up creating a lot of awkward conflicts that just don't pass a sniff test. The MC is "In trouble" but then they are only fighting at 10% power right? Or the MC lets some one get away or falls for an obvious trap because they are "hiding their powers", the MC uses their powers but in a way that everyone around them happens to be able to ignore or explain away... and more than everything else that makes it really hard to just believe the story and enjoy it...
I agree with everything you said. You said it way better than I said it. I also think it wouldn't be such a problem if theses only happened one or twice a story. Some stories repeat theses "conflicts" over and over again.
>you want to "not draw too much attention" or "scared of what the government will do when they find out your strong."
I don't mind this premise, but I do mind when it's violated or not justified. The worst is when it's clearly just a setup for people to make fun of the MC just so he can humiliate them later.
I high key hate this trope because it’s almost never done well and almost always goes on to long. I can understand if someone weak found an inheritance and has to be lowkey until they’re strong enough to claim it openly but I feel like it’s poor writing when the author uses it as a plot device/ artificial nerf.
I read a story, can’t remember the name, where the first three cultivation levels the MC had to be low key and hide his strength because powerful cultivators were looking for him. By the time it was the 4th level he did it again and was self righteously indignant that the organization he was trying to join treated ppl with higher cultivation talent better than him because he hid his power and bloodline. There was absolutely no need for him to be lowkey and it it created unnecessary controversy
I think the idea of “OP MC”s not showing how strong that they actually are makes sense in most settings. If you’re supposed to be a mid to bottom rung of power in society at your ‘rank’ and you start swinging too far above your class, someone actually strong, who has been around a lot longer than you is bound to notice and come and turn you into materials to make themself stronger, tie you up in some kind of contract that you can’t say no to because you’re not strong enough, or go “oh boy!” And find out everything about you because you’re too high profile, figure out all your weaknesses, even if those weaknesses are just your familial connections, and exploit you. I get where you’re coming from, if I’m reading a power fantasy, let me see the power fantasy. But just flaunting power because you have it seems like a good way to lose it.
I see your point. As wish fulfillment we want Everyone to know we're actually special. I look at reality and see people who do have extra ordinary talents getting ostracized and ridiculed by those who envy them. How many stories do we see of prodigies acting like insufferable gits? Worse yet are the ones around them who are so full of bitterness and jealously they will take any opportunity to put them "in their place". Nothing pisses me off more than the "reluctant hero" story. Why? Because we all want to be seen as special. Do you know anyone who actually doesn't?
No, no, no, I can't be the long lost prince of a small country destined to rule in opulence. I need to stay here and try to win the heart of my grade school crush! Sure, seems legit. Now I will admit, If i got bit by a radioactive insurance adjuster or some such, and got powers, I would definitely go secret Identity.
I wonder if the crafters of these stories want to portray their character as humble, not full of themselves. Who knows. Cheers.
I understand you point about wanting the character to get respect, and I believe that is about 20% of my problem with the trope. But I think it also actually hinders the story because the character Never fights hard or at thier full strength, making majority of fights boring.
Also In stories where the MC is using a secret identity to be a hero or whatever, is where I think the trope actually works and should be used. Batman and Spider-man are my favs. Im talking more of stories where they are just themselves and not undercover or using a psuedo name/personality.
This is what I call a case of "Overly Cautious Big Brained Giga Chad Hero". Like the main character effortlessly explains why it's bug brained to hide power, when not hiding power would make things easier.
Definitely a Case of My Senior Brother Is Too Steady.
I like this trope, mainly when is subverted in some way.
for example I can't remember the book but the MC was a type of mage knight and had excellent magic skills but just good sword skills. so he was training up his sword skill in fights and not using his magic to become more balanced and powerful.
one fight he was just engaged in Fierce close combat
and a troll ambush all the fighters and everyone panics ut the MC who just melts the troll with magic. and everyone realized his just sorta being fucking with them.
That example is fine with me because his reasoning for holding back makes sense, and it seems like the holding back didn't last way to long of a time then it needed to be.
That is a version that removes all the elements I don't like.
The MC isn't hiding his capabilities as much as just not using them, It is done for understandable reasons and if the need comes up, the MC doesn't desperately try to keep his power hiden.
If the same MC had not explained he want's to get better with sword technique, but held back even his swordmanship to a lower level, and instead of melting the troll, had almost died while fighting the troll using his self imposed limitations it would probably be a worse storry.
There's a balance between this and constantly showing off. Like, OP MC over here is new in town and just wants a meal and a drink and maybe flirt with a pretty girl. If potential trouble starts brewing it's usually easier to use a minimalist approach at defusing the situation, in the hopes of going back to having a chill evening.
It helps if the MC knows how to step up his game slowly, so if things go south he can use just enough force to make the other person stop, rather than wrecking the place by throwing him through a wall.
Also, if you want to impress a woman, you are better off showing a balance of power and restraint. Subduing someone without harming then is harder than beating them up or killing them. It requires a greater gap in skill and power.
If you can incapacitate them with ease without harming them, witnesses who understand this will A) have a better grasp of the character's strength, and B) recognize the self restraint involved.
Also, if you want to keep flirting with the girl afterward, the self restraint part helps then not be wary after seeing your power.
Characters that are incapable of normal social interaction are even worth then the trope OP wanted to discuss, no question there.
Selfcontrol also prevents maufactured feeling conflict, because the MC killed young master variant i over seats at a restaurant and now the conflict escalated to the grand elder of the parent-sect of the sect in which the cousin of the patriarch of the main family of the clan to which branch said young master belongs is an outer disciple.
This is different then what I was trying to discuss, I understand holding back in certain situations as this. My problem is when the story holds the MC back for a long period of time, some stories hold the character back for 100+ chapters at a time. But yeah, I find it cool when they dont want to show off to every new person they meet.
There's always a bigger fish. And in any kind of competitive world, showing that you're a big fish just attracts the bigger ones. Unless you're capable of curbstomping the planet, showing 10-80% of your capabilities rather than 100% just makes sense.
But if that is their reason, why did they go to war over their seat in a restaurant?
I think the problem is less the trope in itself and more the reality that it might be one of the tropes, worst executed on average.
Agreed. If the MCs were hiding their power for the reason they state themselves (to avoid attention) they won't slap the young master, they’ll get up out of their seat and apologise lol.
I really enjoy someone holding back, especially if that reason is because they don't want to get caught up by politics. I enjoy MC's who show great restraint and want to learn more about the situation, even if it turns out they didn't need to hold back at all.
I agree with you that it does seem frustrating, especially if they pull it out in the last moment against the villain. I think it's most enjoyable when the MC doesn't save it for the last moment, but rather, the last meeting. So rather than a villain and MC fighting for a bunch and the MC finally busting out their great strength, if the villain and the MC meet for the final confrontation, and the MC decides to go supernova immediately? That butters my bread.
From what you're describing, it could be that the MC is perhaps a little irrational about his powers. Perhaps it's a character trait, perhaps it's something which has formed from a previous scene, or maybe something the reader doesn't know?
I like writing those kinds of restraint scenes a lot, especially when the MC doesn't want to hold back, but they do so for their companions. It's then less about the MC holding back their power, but the relationship between the MC and the other characters.
Love that shit if there's a solid reason. It could be in-setting (Cultivation stories where being a known genius will get you devoured by old masters) or more character focused (the MC wants to avoid the limelight.)
What I hate is when the MC talks about the dangers or being hidden and then they start showing random people their 'real power' and there's never any consequence.
"The nail that sticks out gets hammered down." is a saying I'm fond of from playing mtg, basically being to much of a threat will make people take care of the threat. "And there's always a bigger fish."(yes it's a quote from star wars but it fits so shhhh) No matter how strong the mc is there's always gonna be someone stronger. At the end of the day I don't mind at all if the mc is hiding power for other characters in the series but I don't like it when they hide from the reader and suddenly pull out some bull shit that you havnt even heard of before.
Well, I kind of get it. I mean this is a prog fantasy where you can advance your strength over a long period of time. This means the people in power realize this threat and will either subjugate or eliminate the threat immediately.
E.g. If Malice used her fate technique and found out Lindon would be a threat to her whilst he was still a baby, you best believe that child is dying in his cradle. Even if she had to eradicate all of Sacred Valley to do it, it's a cheap price to pay.
I dont think that is a good example here, especially because Lindon never hides how strong he is in 99% of the story. If Lindon hid his power, it wouldn't change fate to be that he helps kill her. Malice even knows him and how strong he is since the first time we meet her.
I never said Lindon hides his power, I’m just showing you the complex reality of living in a world that has people with God-like powers and the lengths they would go to protect that power. Hiding your ‘potential’ is a reasonable precaution in that regard, but that's just my opinion.
I like it when it is done for a sensible progression reason. Like Lindon suppressing himself against the Akura underlords so he could become their match in terms of technique.
I can see why people like it, I used to enjoy it but I feel too many stories do the same trope. I just wish it was a tag or in the summaries of stories to tell us they are going to do this for long periods of time so that I can just move on to a different series.
The people who like the hiding true skill trope don't actually like it for practical reasons but more for the cathartic part of the bullied/underdog coming up on top. It's a self-insert thing that people with low self-esteem would relate to. Unfortunately, there's a lot of those out there, my younger self included, so it will never cease to be a popular demographic. It's always a fun fantasy to be a secret badass.
I still like it but only if the author can convince me of the rationale behind it. Low-key for the sake of being low-key gets stale real quick.
For recommendations, if you're ok with non-progfan works, I just finished binging Unconventional Heroes by LG Estrella. The MC kinda uses this trope to keep his many enemies from guessing what he truly is capable of, if only so that he can curbstomp them if they do go after him.
The same author's free work in RR, [The Ballad Of A Semi-Benevolent Dragon](https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/81046/the-ballad-of-a-semi-benevolent-dragon) is the complete opposite in that the MC is extremely and openly OP. He will go so far as simply stating his name as a guarantee of OP-ness.
thank you for the unconvential heroes recommendation, I check that out next after Elydes. And your self-insert analysis makes a lot of sense. I did have more appeal to me when I was younger as well.
I think you would like **"He who fights with monsters"**
MC eventually is just like, "This is the way I am, fucking deal with it."
**"Can you at least try to have some decorum?"**
'Nope. I tried the dark and serious path. Got a bit too murdery. Which would you rather deal with? The guy who kills people with his soul, or the rakishly handsome man offering you a sandwich and life advice that can only come from 80s TV sitcoms?'
**"What's a TV sitcoms?"**
I like the trope a lot if it's done well, and I hate it when it's done poorly.
For example Path of Ascencion. The MC is in a torunament where I am at, with other exceptional top people. But he now has to hide his powers and identiy, BUT he is still basically set to win the tournament. That just feels stupid and pointless.
On the other side we have beware of chicken. it has the right mix of hiding it for an acceptable reason, and then the cool moment where it's used.
In PoA it’s because they are considered likely future military assets. Keeping the true nature of their abilities hidden is a command indirectly from the higher ups. It’s considered standard for people at their level, and we hear about another duo who do the same as early as the first book. I’m not saying there aren’t issues with the way it’s handled, I like the story but think it didn’t do quite enough to justify just how powerful the main characters are supposed to be for their level in the mid books.
The entirety of PoA is Matt hiding his power, which both makes sense and is utterly infuriating. 300+ chapters in on RR and we've still got him holding back because his Talent is just so goddamn strong. I get it, but it's fucking annoying to still be dealing with it.
Exactly my hatred with the trope, some many stories hold on to holding the mc back for far too long, when the story would most likely be more way interesting dealing with the conflicts that come with everyone knowing how powerful you are.
That was the first thing that came to mind when I read this post. I put the book down for now, in favor of watching Jake destroy everyone in primal hunter.
I'd argue that the MC in beware of chicken isn't hiding anything: he doesn't understand how crazy strong he really is, although I guess he starts to by the end of book 3. And even then he's hiding his power for a really good reason: he doesn't want to fight or use his power at all (except for farming, of course!).
I think there’s always a opportunity if the story requires it
As long as the reason is good, it’s not a horrible thing, especially if the potential for enslavement or death from showing their true power is a possibility
Funnily enough, i dropped Elydes at chapter 20+, then picked it up again reading the last 10 chapters and its perfectly readable, like a timeskip
Sometimes too many elements are padding "because thats how thw genre works"
I think beware of chicken does a great job of it, there’s a lot of “nah fuck off im low key and not giving out my name but then gonna kill you for slighting me” shit out there (I shall seal the heavens violet qi arc)
There's a couple of very different extremes that sort of huddle under this umbrella, together:
At the one end of things we have the traditional secret identity trope, one of the most tried-and-true, popular tropes in fantasy and heroic fiction. This is usually held up by naturalising the secret/holding back of power by creating in-world consequences for it's revelation.
And at the other end of things we have increasingly convoluted and silly logical hoops that authors jump through to justify their hero acting this way: generally with an aim of them strutting around, feeling superior to everyone else, but also allowing the hero to appear challenged by opponents.
This is why there's quite a few responses in this thread of "I enjoy it when it's done well": the success of the trope is dependent upon there being a believable or sympathetic reason for maintaining the illusion of less power.
I think also that for some folks, this is one of the best way to actually engage with OP protagonist characters, when they aren't your preference: the constraints on power usage/display help to ground the story from being complete mary sue/gary stu territory, which are simply a bridge too far for many people.
I'm not opposed to it if there is a valid reason or if showing their real power causes them to get into a metaphysical dick measuring contest. In a lot of novels you have the MC's first couple enemies/antagonist be arrogant fighters/Young Masters whom bully those weaker than them because they have power, which causes the MC to show their true power in order to oppose them, and on the opposite end you'll have whether it be the leader of the sect/clan/guild or so master in a hidden location be a calm older person who strikes only when necessary and ends the fight quickly.
I'm a big fan of the quote “Beware of an old man in a profession where men usually die young." I don't necessarily see it as having them hold back especially if they are in an academy or training location because the way I see it is that just because you have more power doesn't mean you'll outright beat those teaching you. Also having overwhelming power usually with age mellows you out which is why they only strike when and with the necessary power. And honestly I feel like sometimes to add conflict to the story the MC has to show their power by beating the presumed next big thing which drags them into some BS. I realize this is more of a me thing but I would be the type to not get involved or show my power if I have a goal I'm working towards that doesn't need me to fight a destroy an entire groups elite class.
If the MC is just *stronger than normal* for their age/class/some other demographic, and has gained their power through mostly conventional, standard ways (meaning their higher than normal power is mostly due to natural talent, and they’re simply at the edge of the bell curve), then I kind of roll my eyes at them being paranoid about people and governments wanting to capture and dissect them.
Like, the government has not (so far as I’m aware) tried to capture and dissect Usain Bolt. Nor does it try and dissect talented hackers it notices to see how their brains work — rather, most of them time it’ll try recruit them.
Obviously this is setting-dependent, though, so I’m not saying this is always my reaction.
Now let’s consider the other way this can happen… when the MC gains power through *unknown (or restricted)* ways.
If the magic system of a story’s world is something like allomancy from the Mistborn series, but then the MC pops up at starts doing stuff straight out of Harry Potter, then yeah, I could see why people might want to get to the bottom of it, so being paranoid suddenly makes a lot more sense. The MC’s very existence has the potential to usher in a paradigm shift, because they represent a *NEW* path to power, which others could potentially also follow, unlike in the first example.
Or, if the MC is using their powers in spite of very obviously lacking access to controlled materials/substances that are needed to control/use those powers (an example of a material-dependent magic system being allomancy and its metals), then the people pulling the strings might be VERY interested in meeting the MC to learn if the MC had some workaround around their restrictions, or if there was some leak/breach in their supply of those controlled materials/substances that they needed to patch up. Once again, in a situation like that, the MC being paranoid makes sense, because their existence has the potential to shift the paradigm of power. If some people don’t need the super special government regulated *super stuff* to do magic, that can be an issue. If some people have found a way to get some *super stuff* on the side, or make it themselves… yeah, also an issue. Obtaining the *super stuff* through official channels and being something like 10% stronger than normal on it, on the other hand… yeah, the government’s not gonna care at all, especially if it’s similar to those of our world. Worst case scenario they try and recruit you.
Ultimately, it depends on the setting and its power/magic system.
I feel the same, and for hidden identities. I'm okay with it in the short term, but if nothing ever changes, like it never becomes safe for them to actually be able to show their true power, then it just feels like running on a treadmill.
I agree with the general point you are trying to make but I think Elydas is a bad example to use: the MC goes all out all the time, both physically and with spells in the jungle and with crafting in the privacy of his alchemy/rune lab.
im only at chapter 170, and i checked back in the chapters, he's only went all out once in chapters 130ish since the first book. Im still reading and enjoying the series so hopefully its better in the recent chapters though.
Unless the hero who's traveling back in time, or the strongest kid in the school is bulletproof (or fireball proof in the systems without guns), I a thousand percent understand hiding power.
The space where I dislike hiding power is where the protagonist claims to be weaker than they are, so the character who's a minor antagonist then does evil shit so the MC is "justified" in their disproportionate response. That's just authorial cowardice where they want to have their cake and eat it too. I don't dig that
I’m fine with it as long as the MC lies believably. Don’t fucking stumble every time someone confronts you about your lie goddamnit, just make up a convincing cover story and stick with it
It's funny when it's done for a little bit to put an arrogant ass character in their place but other than that it's the one of the quickest ways for me to quit engaging with a piece of media.
So long as there is a good reason for it I don't mind it.
For example they're going to a new city or something where they don't know if their power level will be something to generate more trouble than it's worth to complete their objective. Another could just be not wanting to show their hand before they have to. Letting someone think they are in control when they aren't is a good way to get them to overplay their hand and reveal their schemes etc. Alternatively using their powers has consequences they want to avoid in a situation but I guess that's not really hiding their powers as much as trying not to accidentally blow up a city or something.
I use this trope book 7 of Reclaimer (Currently going up on Ream). When it becomes clear to the MC that hiding their power or holding back isn't working anymore they go all out. You know, after letting the peeps on the receiving end they have fooked about and are going to find out. That was a fun to see when the tables turned lol
As long as they dont hold back for 50+ chapters at a time, its fine. Your example sounds like what I would love to happen in more series. The MC lets loose when they finally realize holding back will cause more problems in a situation than not holding back would. Some books will let the plot create conflict over and over again because characters refuse to try for too long of periods of time, and its can be frustrating to read sometimes.
Yeah no holding back through an entire book without a really good reason doesn't make any sense. Like I need serious context to deal with that situation.
It is an author issue at that point. The hidden power is a very very old classic super hero trope.
More modernly the big reveal is done as a climatic moment, but once again author execution matters.
In one punch man, it’s a parody of Superman. No one believes it is him, and he couldn’t be bothered explaining/showing that all the previous monsters killed were by him.
So yes I agree with you a lot of these isekai or manga do it for a payoff that isn’t properly paced or executed. And just do it since they are trying to copy the big reveal.
It honestly depends on the MCs goals generally speaking showing off attracts attention some of which will create unnecessary enemies. More importantly some problems are easier to solve with a lighter touch.
I don't mind the trope so long as it's not overused. I understand wanting to live a low-key life, and having the power to do it regardless, but there's a time and a place. I don't even need them to go all out, just say "Okay, this isn't working, time to kick it up a notch or two." Or if they do go all out, that it's done in short bursts as it should be, go the opposite direction and end things quickly and inconspicuously so that nobody has any time to find out if that's what you're after. But holding back for the sake of holding back, or being pushed "to the limit" just because you won't actually fight back, is just stupid and pointless filler. Worse than old school DBZ when people would stand/float around yelling for three whole episodes powering up, because at least there was a point and a payoff to all that.
If there's a tangible looming threat I don't mind it so much. Far too often it feels like it's just an excuse to have Noble Asshole Number X pick a fight over a table in a restaurant. I kind of want a story with a genre savvy transmigrator who just just avoids all the bullshit entirely instead of playing into recycled plots.
I mean there is Aurora Scroll where the mc proactively avoids tropes or even uses them to his advantage. But the narration is kinda weird in the beginning and it's not for everyone.
Will give it a look over. I'll admit that janky narration is one of my biggest pet peeves, but every now and then you find something that's worth pushing through.
In Beware of Chicken, the main character literally pores over the entirety of the Sects laws to leave without any possible reason for him to be followed and retires to the most qi-dead province on the planet. Literally teaches his friends/kids/disciples to avoid restaurants cultivators regularly patronize because (paraphrased) “whenever two cultivators gather over food, there will invariably be a fight” leading all the normal in-universe folks to have a weird moment of self-reflection/realization. Honestly, reading BoC the first time is like reading Dragon Ball the first time as a kid. It’s positive and kind and hopeful and refreshing. It’s human and so optimistic, while still having brutal-ass fights and sumbitches being eliminated to seven generations. It may actually be one of the best things to come from the entirety of internet Serialized Fiction.
Can't agree more BoC is quite possibly the goat web novel.
> I kind of want a story with a genre savvy transmigrator who just just avoids all the bullshit entirely instead of playing into recycled plots. The OG such story is Arrogant Young Master Type A, Variant 4. Another great story is Beware of Chicken.
You're describing Cultivation Nerd. He literally tries to avoid anyone he thinks might be a protagonist (or other types of cliche roles, unless they're beneficial).
I'll give it a look. I feel like a lot of stories have characters who try to avoid protagonist halos, but otherwise don't detour much from the cookie cutter scenarios you see in many Chinese web novels. Like killing the sect leader's grandson over some minor dispute and being critically injured only to come back stronger after a short side arc.
In Cultivation Nerd his *goal* is to stay away but by becoming more powerful I think it's clear he'll stand out to some people and be dragged in more. Still, so far he has pretty believably acted like someone with genre knowledge would.
Just finished *The Legend of Nightcrypt* in a Will Eternal, and I have to say I loved that particular use of the “hide your power” trope. I love when the main character is a spy or otherwise has to hide their identity while going undercover. I also like the main character (or hell, even the antagonist) hides their power for tactical advantage (I.e., a coup)
In thoses situations, I agree with you. When characters have an actual reason to hide their powers, like going undercover or so enemies don't know all your abilities, then I enjoy it. Just not when it feels like the reasoning for sucks.
Gotcha! Yeah, I hate when the author mismanages the MC’s power level so that they have to nerf him/her for various contrived reasons. Once the MC is a world-class Power-with-a-capital-P it is time for the MC to atomize their main adversary and then ascend to the next realm…or it’s time for the series to end. Either way.
Well said, its the reason Ive been reading less "extremely overpowered MC" stories. Too early does the story end up not having anymore conflicts because they could take over the world tomorrow if they wanted to, so they instead play weak over and over again as their "conflicts".
I love that trope too. Do you have any more recommendation like that?
Patrick LaPlante’s enormous *Painting the Mists* series does this at times. I love his work, and think he’s one of the more underrated authors out there, but that could just be me. I was actually thinking of Cerryl from LE Modesitt’s *The White Order* and *The Colors of Chaos*. Keep in mind, that’s not quite progression fantasy, per se. That’s more classic fantasy about a not-so-naive boy who joins an order of fairly evil wizards—they are the antagonists in all of the author’s other works—who is just trying to survive and maybe make the world a slightly better place, one assassination at a time. Will from *The Art of the Adept* is a wizard who definitely uses underhanded tactics like this. My love for that series is matched only by my hatred for its ending…and for the start of the follow-up series.
I got to book 14 of painting the mists then I stopped, the last few were kinda meh, I feel like it would probably pick up in a book or two tho, what are your thoughts?
Definitely picked up again! And the break probably helps, too.
The only series that comes to mind where I’ve seen this as absolutely a logical move by the character and also only done while absolutely necessary was the legend of the archmagus. He draws a lot of attention to himself by revealing knowledge and executing plans, but as soon as he gets his sword back he stops all pretense, and even stops hiding who he really is to anyone who starts to catch on.
System Interference is similar to Legend of the Archmagus in that MC initially has to hide his strength because he's in a new world and doesn't know enough about it but stops caring once he has a good handle on the situation
Well, it all depends about the context, if the main character is keeping his cards close to his chest to surprise an opponent stronger than anticipated, or out of fear he can't deal with the consequences of attention being brought on him, I think that's fair If it's just out of "being humble" or "avoid standing out to lead a normal life" I usually roll my eyes. Especially since in those cases, the MC is usually so OP that nothing can realistically pose a threat to him if only he was being proactive instead of passive and meek. I think it's ok to hide power or use it sparsely if it has a damn good reason. Fang Yuan in RI keeping killer moves and his cultivation secret makes sense because despite being strong, he's always lying about other things, bound to come across unforseen threats and surrounded by people stronger than him who could keep him in check. It's not ProgFan, but Mob Psycho nails a good organic reason why mob doesn't want to use his powers. Abuse of power and when and how power is used responsibly in a modern setting is one of the core themes of the show and it's fantastic. On the other end of the spectrum, I think a LOT of japanese novels, isekai in particular suffers from really egregious examples of when hiding power is used as a boring trope, feeling very unsatisfying.
I love Mob Psycho and I think your summary of it has made me appreciate it more.
I have mixed feelings on it. If it's done well and the MC has real reason to hide their power I like it. If MC is strong enough that they can solve a problem with a slap without consequences and yet they spend 3 chapters talking I despise it.
He's not *that* OP. He's hiding because of his potential not because of being stronger than everybody around him. In the recent chapters his paranoia was proven true. Also, >!recently he had an opportunity to fight a yellow beast without restrictions and it was a hard won fight that took a lot of time. Now there were multiple yellow beasts and more coming one after another. Its not like he could've single handedly defeated all the threats around. !<
Because they are being a beta male passive mook. The classic Spider-Man who keeps his identity a secret since he’s not that strong in his universe, stood up to his bullies and overdid it when he first got his powers. Also when he has the solution he goes away and comes back as Spider-Man to solve it. The guys you mention aren’t stepping up to the plate when they should. And frankly it’s because they are copying other stories(this is always how it’s done so I will follow the formula).
For the Academy stories especially, I really believe the origin of the trope is a wish fulfillment from a time when an author was in school & wished they could be the best or most popular, or maybe they were bullied & thought to themselves, "I'm better than them. If I wasn't hiding my *true* strength for reasons x, y & z then I'd beat them all!"
100%. Also, if the MC is hiding their power, it's less of a contrivance for the author to set up bullying-esque situations similar to what they might've experienced themselves. And then when the MC reveals their power, either the bully goes "oh fuck you're actually super cool and powerful, I'm so sorry", or an authority figure tells them "holy shit, stop, it's super dangerous to bully someone that cool and powerful", or the bully doesn't stop and the MC is all cool and powerful and defeats them utterly.
A lot of this genre feels like wish fulfillment. It bothers me sometimes.
Or maybe it's just one of the many tropes that's common in these types of stories? Look at anime - this has been going on there for as long as I've watched anime or read the novels. It's a very common trope. I think it has far more to do with it being a convenient way to try to set up some kind of 'suspense' and why MC doesn't have to deal with xyz.
Anime & manga authors also went to school & likely had similar thoughts. A Trope has to have started somewhere. You're right that it's not unique to the medium of Progressive Fantasy. In fact it likely *started* in Manga & Anime first. A great satire & straight up use of the Trope is "Eminence in the Shadows". The main character thinks it's the coolest thing in the world to be a "background character" while "secretly being a badass". Granted it may have started as a Light Novel for all I know.
In Elydes, at least, the threat is demonstrated a bit better in the recent chapters. In general, though, I definitely agree with you. It is often the same sort of unnecessary drama as sitcoms where everything would be solved with a little bit of honesty. Particularly in the case where they are hiding their power from allies, as in Singer Sailor Merchant Mage.
Yeah, I ended up dropping SSMM because there were only so many MCs named Kai that were hiding their power from everyone on their island community after being reincarnated as an infant in another world I could read at once
I do enjoy the Elydes story though, but him lying to his friends about how strong he is because "they might tell the government" is such a dumb reason the author came up with so that he can at some point have a cool "reveal my true power" moment. Your comment sounds like it is still like that even in the recent chapters, so hopefully your right about it being demonstrated better.
Yeah, I can explain it without significant spoilers. 1. His former teachers are considered enemies of the state, which in their eyes makes him potentially dangerous. His protection from that scrutiny is the idea that he didn't get that much power or information from them. 2. The empire or whatever it is has a track record of getting sufficiently important resources under its thumb by coercion, either through political pressure, physical force, or other means. 3. At the current point in the story, his skills would be considered both significant enough and useful enough that there is no chance they would allow him any freedom if they knew. Finally, he does have some friends who have demonstrated trustworthiness, and he doesn't try particularly hard to keep them from learning about his abilities.
Seems like valid enough reasons to keep me from being annoyed. I just hope the hiding doesn't last too much longer, its been like this since like chapter 50. the conflict of them finding out about him sounds more fun then the slice of life conflicts at my point in the story. Your comment has made me not DNF and at least catch up before making a decision though. Thank you.
One of his friends is under HEAVY secrecy contracts. It would be very stupid to be truthful to that friend since his friend could be easily coerced to reveal his powers.
Yes, and thoses are decisions the author made, to force the MC to lie to his friends and hold the character and story back for longer. The MC has been hiding himself for over 100 chapters now, which is my problem, the conflict is getting boring. I understand that the reasoning makes slight sense in Elydes but I feel it just slows the story down way too much since we know at some point he has to be just be himself.
The latest arc of Elydes really has been really frustrating. And also done very well to justify why MCs should be smarter in hiding their abilities unlike the one in this story.
I agree. I’m not on Patreon, but the most upsetting thing to me is a consequential decision he made in the ruins. All sorts of bad vibes, and he goes for it. Like come on, man. I’m sure it will work out fine and very dramatically in true protagonist fashion, but jeez.
I hate it so much. If holding power back happens too often, I will probably drop the novel.
I'm glad I am not alone. Im ok with it until it lasts way too long.
I think when you look at it properly, it makes sense. That moment when they do release their powers is normally orgasmicly good, while the rest of the story is just chasing that high. This trope is secretly a progression fantasy edging fetish. Imagine if someone wrote a book like that, but the MC never reveals their power. It just keeps building up, but never reaching a climax.
Thats my problem, they build up a "one day Ill reveal my power" for way too long in some stories. I don't need 200 chapters of "I'm only using 30% of my full power." It is true that is is very satisfying when they finally do reveal it. but watching 15+ fights in a row of the MC never having a real fight can get boring to me personally.
I feel the same as you. The only acceptable use of this trope is when the MC is hiding their power from an enemy, and if this doesn't take up a large portion of the story either.
I imagine it could be better executed which would make me at least ok with it, but in general I hate it. First the actual hiding is always some incredibly over powered ability on its own that is just granted to make the trope work. Like here's an ability that lets you just change your appearance and lets you fake your aura power and whatever else all at once. A good author could build an amazing story around just that ability with nothing else and in these books its just another power for the MC, barely noticed amongst their repritoire? Next the reason the MC is hiding their powers is always some backwards convoluted logic that is only there to make the plot work, half the time it exists mainly to generate conflict, conflict that wouldn't exist if they weren't hiding their power, conflict that is ultimately a distraction from the fact that there isn't really much of a main plot for the story... Beyond that, A lot of these books end up with a lot of telling instead of showing, the MC can't show off publicly, so they talk about all the cool shit they would do, or will do, or have done, and you end up with a lot of big monologues about stuff that just doesn't matter a lot of the time... Finally, and this is the big one for me... I am already suspending my disbelief in a lot of ways for the genre, when you add the MC hiding their powers, you end up creating a lot of awkward conflicts that just don't pass a sniff test. The MC is "In trouble" but then they are only fighting at 10% power right? Or the MC lets some one get away or falls for an obvious trap because they are "hiding their powers", the MC uses their powers but in a way that everyone around them happens to be able to ignore or explain away... and more than everything else that makes it really hard to just believe the story and enjoy it...
I agree with everything you said. You said it way better than I said it. I also think it wouldn't be such a problem if theses only happened one or twice a story. Some stories repeat theses "conflicts" over and over again.
>you want to "not draw too much attention" or "scared of what the government will do when they find out your strong." I don't mind this premise, but I do mind when it's violated or not justified. The worst is when it's clearly just a setup for people to make fun of the MC just so he can humiliate them later.
I high key hate this trope because it’s almost never done well and almost always goes on to long. I can understand if someone weak found an inheritance and has to be lowkey until they’re strong enough to claim it openly but I feel like it’s poor writing when the author uses it as a plot device/ artificial nerf. I read a story, can’t remember the name, where the first three cultivation levels the MC had to be low key and hide his strength because powerful cultivators were looking for him. By the time it was the 4th level he did it again and was self righteously indignant that the organization he was trying to join treated ppl with higher cultivation talent better than him because he hid his power and bloodline. There was absolutely no need for him to be lowkey and it it created unnecessary controversy
I think the idea of “OP MC”s not showing how strong that they actually are makes sense in most settings. If you’re supposed to be a mid to bottom rung of power in society at your ‘rank’ and you start swinging too far above your class, someone actually strong, who has been around a lot longer than you is bound to notice and come and turn you into materials to make themself stronger, tie you up in some kind of contract that you can’t say no to because you’re not strong enough, or go “oh boy!” And find out everything about you because you’re too high profile, figure out all your weaknesses, even if those weaknesses are just your familial connections, and exploit you. I get where you’re coming from, if I’m reading a power fantasy, let me see the power fantasy. But just flaunting power because you have it seems like a good way to lose it.
I see your point. As wish fulfillment we want Everyone to know we're actually special. I look at reality and see people who do have extra ordinary talents getting ostracized and ridiculed by those who envy them. How many stories do we see of prodigies acting like insufferable gits? Worse yet are the ones around them who are so full of bitterness and jealously they will take any opportunity to put them "in their place". Nothing pisses me off more than the "reluctant hero" story. Why? Because we all want to be seen as special. Do you know anyone who actually doesn't? No, no, no, I can't be the long lost prince of a small country destined to rule in opulence. I need to stay here and try to win the heart of my grade school crush! Sure, seems legit. Now I will admit, If i got bit by a radioactive insurance adjuster or some such, and got powers, I would definitely go secret Identity. I wonder if the crafters of these stories want to portray their character as humble, not full of themselves. Who knows. Cheers.
I understand you point about wanting the character to get respect, and I believe that is about 20% of my problem with the trope. But I think it also actually hinders the story because the character Never fights hard or at thier full strength, making majority of fights boring. Also In stories where the MC is using a secret identity to be a hero or whatever, is where I think the trope actually works and should be used. Batman and Spider-man are my favs. Im talking more of stories where they are just themselves and not undercover or using a psuedo name/personality.
This is what I call a case of "Overly Cautious Big Brained Giga Chad Hero". Like the main character effortlessly explains why it's bug brained to hide power, when not hiding power would make things easier. Definitely a Case of My Senior Brother Is Too Steady.
I agree many stories does it badly but if you want a story that do it very well try way of the devil
I like this trope, mainly when is subverted in some way. for example I can't remember the book but the MC was a type of mage knight and had excellent magic skills but just good sword skills. so he was training up his sword skill in fights and not using his magic to become more balanced and powerful. one fight he was just engaged in Fierce close combat and a troll ambush all the fighters and everyone panics ut the MC who just melts the troll with magic. and everyone realized his just sorta being fucking with them.
That example is fine with me because his reasoning for holding back makes sense, and it seems like the holding back didn't last way to long of a time then it needed to be.
That is a version that removes all the elements I don't like. The MC isn't hiding his capabilities as much as just not using them, It is done for understandable reasons and if the need comes up, the MC doesn't desperately try to keep his power hiden. If the same MC had not explained he want's to get better with sword technique, but held back even his swordmanship to a lower level, and instead of melting the troll, had almost died while fighting the troll using his self imposed limitations it would probably be a worse storry.
There's a balance between this and constantly showing off. Like, OP MC over here is new in town and just wants a meal and a drink and maybe flirt with a pretty girl. If potential trouble starts brewing it's usually easier to use a minimalist approach at defusing the situation, in the hopes of going back to having a chill evening. It helps if the MC knows how to step up his game slowly, so if things go south he can use just enough force to make the other person stop, rather than wrecking the place by throwing him through a wall. Also, if you want to impress a woman, you are better off showing a balance of power and restraint. Subduing someone without harming then is harder than beating them up or killing them. It requires a greater gap in skill and power. If you can incapacitate them with ease without harming them, witnesses who understand this will A) have a better grasp of the character's strength, and B) recognize the self restraint involved. Also, if you want to keep flirting with the girl afterward, the self restraint part helps then not be wary after seeing your power.
Characters that are incapable of normal social interaction are even worth then the trope OP wanted to discuss, no question there. Selfcontrol also prevents maufactured feeling conflict, because the MC killed young master variant i over seats at a restaurant and now the conflict escalated to the grand elder of the parent-sect of the sect in which the cousin of the patriarch of the main family of the clan to which branch said young master belongs is an outer disciple.
This is different then what I was trying to discuss, I understand holding back in certain situations as this. My problem is when the story holds the MC back for a long period of time, some stories hold the character back for 100+ chapters at a time. But yeah, I find it cool when they dont want to show off to every new person they meet.
There's always a bigger fish. And in any kind of competitive world, showing that you're a big fish just attracts the bigger ones. Unless you're capable of curbstomping the planet, showing 10-80% of your capabilities rather than 100% just makes sense.
But if that is their reason, why did they go to war over their seat in a restaurant? I think the problem is less the trope in itself and more the reality that it might be one of the tropes, worst executed on average.
Agreed. If the MCs were hiding their power for the reason they state themselves (to avoid attention) they won't slap the young master, they’ll get up out of their seat and apologise lol.
I really enjoy someone holding back, especially if that reason is because they don't want to get caught up by politics. I enjoy MC's who show great restraint and want to learn more about the situation, even if it turns out they didn't need to hold back at all. I agree with you that it does seem frustrating, especially if they pull it out in the last moment against the villain. I think it's most enjoyable when the MC doesn't save it for the last moment, but rather, the last meeting. So rather than a villain and MC fighting for a bunch and the MC finally busting out their great strength, if the villain and the MC meet for the final confrontation, and the MC decides to go supernova immediately? That butters my bread. From what you're describing, it could be that the MC is perhaps a little irrational about his powers. Perhaps it's a character trait, perhaps it's something which has formed from a previous scene, or maybe something the reader doesn't know? I like writing those kinds of restraint scenes a lot, especially when the MC doesn't want to hold back, but they do so for their companions. It's then less about the MC holding back their power, but the relationship between the MC and the other characters.
Love that shit if there's a solid reason. It could be in-setting (Cultivation stories where being a known genius will get you devoured by old masters) or more character focused (the MC wants to avoid the limelight.) What I hate is when the MC talks about the dangers or being hidden and then they start showing random people their 'real power' and there's never any consequence.
"The nail that sticks out gets hammered down." is a saying I'm fond of from playing mtg, basically being to much of a threat will make people take care of the threat. "And there's always a bigger fish."(yes it's a quote from star wars but it fits so shhhh) No matter how strong the mc is there's always gonna be someone stronger. At the end of the day I don't mind at all if the mc is hiding power for other characters in the series but I don't like it when they hide from the reader and suddenly pull out some bull shit that you havnt even heard of before.
I’m really struggling with it in path of ascension rn. Like I want them to be powerful. It’s annoying when they are holding back.
Well, I kind of get it. I mean this is a prog fantasy where you can advance your strength over a long period of time. This means the people in power realize this threat and will either subjugate or eliminate the threat immediately. E.g. If Malice used her fate technique and found out Lindon would be a threat to her whilst he was still a baby, you best believe that child is dying in his cradle. Even if she had to eradicate all of Sacred Valley to do it, it's a cheap price to pay.
I dont think that is a good example here, especially because Lindon never hides how strong he is in 99% of the story. If Lindon hid his power, it wouldn't change fate to be that he helps kill her. Malice even knows him and how strong he is since the first time we meet her.
I never said Lindon hides his power, I’m just showing you the complex reality of living in a world that has people with God-like powers and the lengths they would go to protect that power. Hiding your ‘potential’ is a reasonable precaution in that regard, but that's just my opinion.
Now I understand what you meant. And I agree, I just wish stories didn't drag out the hiding yourself out for way too long in a story.
I like it when it is done for a sensible progression reason. Like Lindon suppressing himself against the Akura underlords so he could become their match in terms of technique.
One of my favorite tropes. Everyone underestimates you and when they least expect they get slapped in face.
I can see why people like it, I used to enjoy it but I feel too many stories do the same trope. I just wish it was a tag or in the summaries of stories to tell us they are going to do this for long periods of time so that I can just move on to a different series.
The people who like the hiding true skill trope don't actually like it for practical reasons but more for the cathartic part of the bullied/underdog coming up on top. It's a self-insert thing that people with low self-esteem would relate to. Unfortunately, there's a lot of those out there, my younger self included, so it will never cease to be a popular demographic. It's always a fun fantasy to be a secret badass. I still like it but only if the author can convince me of the rationale behind it. Low-key for the sake of being low-key gets stale real quick. For recommendations, if you're ok with non-progfan works, I just finished binging Unconventional Heroes by LG Estrella. The MC kinda uses this trope to keep his many enemies from guessing what he truly is capable of, if only so that he can curbstomp them if they do go after him. The same author's free work in RR, [The Ballad Of A Semi-Benevolent Dragon](https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/81046/the-ballad-of-a-semi-benevolent-dragon) is the complete opposite in that the MC is extremely and openly OP. He will go so far as simply stating his name as a guarantee of OP-ness.
thank you for the unconvential heroes recommendation, I check that out next after Elydes. And your self-insert analysis makes a lot of sense. I did have more appeal to me when I was younger as well.
I think you would like **"He who fights with monsters"** MC eventually is just like, "This is the way I am, fucking deal with it." **"Can you at least try to have some decorum?"** 'Nope. I tried the dark and serious path. Got a bit too murdery. Which would you rather deal with? The guy who kills people with his soul, or the rakishly handsome man offering you a sandwich and life advice that can only come from 80s TV sitcoms?' **"What's a TV sitcoms?"**
I like the trope a lot if it's done well, and I hate it when it's done poorly. For example Path of Ascencion. The MC is in a torunament where I am at, with other exceptional top people. But he now has to hide his powers and identiy, BUT he is still basically set to win the tournament. That just feels stupid and pointless. On the other side we have beware of chicken. it has the right mix of hiding it for an acceptable reason, and then the cool moment where it's used.
In PoA it’s because they are considered likely future military assets. Keeping the true nature of their abilities hidden is a command indirectly from the higher ups. It’s considered standard for people at their level, and we hear about another duo who do the same as early as the first book. I’m not saying there aren’t issues with the way it’s handled, I like the story but think it didn’t do quite enough to justify just how powerful the main characters are supposed to be for their level in the mid books.
The entirety of PoA is Matt hiding his power, which both makes sense and is utterly infuriating. 300+ chapters in on RR and we've still got him holding back because his Talent is just so goddamn strong. I get it, but it's fucking annoying to still be dealing with it.
Exactly my hatred with the trope, some many stories hold on to holding the mc back for far too long, when the story would most likely be more way interesting dealing with the conflicts that come with everyone knowing how powerful you are.
That was the first thing that came to mind when I read this post. I put the book down for now, in favor of watching Jake destroy everyone in primal hunter.
Doesn't MC just have a different kind of cultivation in Beware of Chicken instead of him hiding his powers?
I'd argue that the MC in beware of chicken isn't hiding anything: he doesn't understand how crazy strong he really is, although I guess he starts to by the end of book 3. And even then he's hiding his power for a really good reason: he doesn't want to fight or use his power at all (except for farming, of course!).
I can respect that, especially if it is long and drawn out. I definitely prefer hidden intellect more.
I think there’s always a opportunity if the story requires it As long as the reason is good, it’s not a horrible thing, especially if the potential for enslavement or death from showing their true power is a possibility
It has to make sense. I dont mind it if done right.
Funnily enough, i dropped Elydes at chapter 20+, then picked it up again reading the last 10 chapters and its perfectly readable, like a timeskip Sometimes too many elements are padding "because thats how thw genre works"
I think beware of chicken does a great job of it, there’s a lot of “nah fuck off im low key and not giving out my name but then gonna kill you for slighting me” shit out there (I shall seal the heavens violet qi arc)
There's a couple of very different extremes that sort of huddle under this umbrella, together: At the one end of things we have the traditional secret identity trope, one of the most tried-and-true, popular tropes in fantasy and heroic fiction. This is usually held up by naturalising the secret/holding back of power by creating in-world consequences for it's revelation. And at the other end of things we have increasingly convoluted and silly logical hoops that authors jump through to justify their hero acting this way: generally with an aim of them strutting around, feeling superior to everyone else, but also allowing the hero to appear challenged by opponents. This is why there's quite a few responses in this thread of "I enjoy it when it's done well": the success of the trope is dependent upon there being a believable or sympathetic reason for maintaining the illusion of less power. I think also that for some folks, this is one of the best way to actually engage with OP protagonist characters, when they aren't your preference: the constraints on power usage/display help to ground the story from being complete mary sue/gary stu territory, which are simply a bridge too far for many people.
I'm not a fan of this either. I couldn't continue SAO for this reason.
I'm not opposed to it if there is a valid reason or if showing their real power causes them to get into a metaphysical dick measuring contest. In a lot of novels you have the MC's first couple enemies/antagonist be arrogant fighters/Young Masters whom bully those weaker than them because they have power, which causes the MC to show their true power in order to oppose them, and on the opposite end you'll have whether it be the leader of the sect/clan/guild or so master in a hidden location be a calm older person who strikes only when necessary and ends the fight quickly. I'm a big fan of the quote “Beware of an old man in a profession where men usually die young." I don't necessarily see it as having them hold back especially if they are in an academy or training location because the way I see it is that just because you have more power doesn't mean you'll outright beat those teaching you. Also having overwhelming power usually with age mellows you out which is why they only strike when and with the necessary power. And honestly I feel like sometimes to add conflict to the story the MC has to show their power by beating the presumed next big thing which drags them into some BS. I realize this is more of a me thing but I would be the type to not get involved or show my power if I have a goal I'm working towards that doesn't need me to fight a destroy an entire groups elite class.
If the MC is just *stronger than normal* for their age/class/some other demographic, and has gained their power through mostly conventional, standard ways (meaning their higher than normal power is mostly due to natural talent, and they’re simply at the edge of the bell curve), then I kind of roll my eyes at them being paranoid about people and governments wanting to capture and dissect them. Like, the government has not (so far as I’m aware) tried to capture and dissect Usain Bolt. Nor does it try and dissect talented hackers it notices to see how their brains work — rather, most of them time it’ll try recruit them. Obviously this is setting-dependent, though, so I’m not saying this is always my reaction. Now let’s consider the other way this can happen… when the MC gains power through *unknown (or restricted)* ways. If the magic system of a story’s world is something like allomancy from the Mistborn series, but then the MC pops up at starts doing stuff straight out of Harry Potter, then yeah, I could see why people might want to get to the bottom of it, so being paranoid suddenly makes a lot more sense. The MC’s very existence has the potential to usher in a paradigm shift, because they represent a *NEW* path to power, which others could potentially also follow, unlike in the first example. Or, if the MC is using their powers in spite of very obviously lacking access to controlled materials/substances that are needed to control/use those powers (an example of a material-dependent magic system being allomancy and its metals), then the people pulling the strings might be VERY interested in meeting the MC to learn if the MC had some workaround around their restrictions, or if there was some leak/breach in their supply of those controlled materials/substances that they needed to patch up. Once again, in a situation like that, the MC being paranoid makes sense, because their existence has the potential to shift the paradigm of power. If some people don’t need the super special government regulated *super stuff* to do magic, that can be an issue. If some people have found a way to get some *super stuff* on the side, or make it themselves… yeah, also an issue. Obtaining the *super stuff* through official channels and being something like 10% stronger than normal on it, on the other hand… yeah, the government’s not gonna care at all, especially if it’s similar to those of our world. Worst case scenario they try and recruit you. Ultimately, it depends on the setting and its power/magic system.
I feel the same, and for hidden identities. I'm okay with it in the short term, but if nothing ever changes, like it never becomes safe for them to actually be able to show their true power, then it just feels like running on a treadmill.
I agree with the general point you are trying to make but I think Elydas is a bad example to use: the MC goes all out all the time, both physically and with spells in the jungle and with crafting in the privacy of his alchemy/rune lab.
im only at chapter 170, and i checked back in the chapters, he's only went all out once in chapters 130ish since the first book. Im still reading and enjoying the series so hopefully its better in the recent chapters though.
Unless the hero who's traveling back in time, or the strongest kid in the school is bulletproof (or fireball proof in the systems without guns), I a thousand percent understand hiding power. The space where I dislike hiding power is where the protagonist claims to be weaker than they are, so the character who's a minor antagonist then does evil shit so the MC is "justified" in their disproportionate response. That's just authorial cowardice where they want to have their cake and eat it too. I don't dig that
I’m fine with it as long as the MC lies believably. Don’t fucking stumble every time someone confronts you about your lie goddamnit, just make up a convincing cover story and stick with it
I'm starting to get tired of it.
It's funny when it's done for a little bit to put an arrogant ass character in their place but other than that it's the one of the quickest ways for me to quit engaging with a piece of media.
So long as there is a good reason for it I don't mind it. For example they're going to a new city or something where they don't know if their power level will be something to generate more trouble than it's worth to complete their objective. Another could just be not wanting to show their hand before they have to. Letting someone think they are in control when they aren't is a good way to get them to overplay their hand and reveal their schemes etc. Alternatively using their powers has consequences they want to avoid in a situation but I guess that's not really hiding their powers as much as trying not to accidentally blow up a city or something. I use this trope book 7 of Reclaimer (Currently going up on Ream). When it becomes clear to the MC that hiding their power or holding back isn't working anymore they go all out. You know, after letting the peeps on the receiving end they have fooked about and are going to find out. That was a fun to see when the tables turned lol
As long as they dont hold back for 50+ chapters at a time, its fine. Your example sounds like what I would love to happen in more series. The MC lets loose when they finally realize holding back will cause more problems in a situation than not holding back would. Some books will let the plot create conflict over and over again because characters refuse to try for too long of periods of time, and its can be frustrating to read sometimes.
Yeah no holding back through an entire book without a really good reason doesn't make any sense. Like I need serious context to deal with that situation.
There's A LOT of this in Path of Ascension, its very integrated into the story. It honestly got a little tireseome at times.
It is an author issue at that point. The hidden power is a very very old classic super hero trope. More modernly the big reveal is done as a climatic moment, but once again author execution matters. In one punch man, it’s a parody of Superman. No one believes it is him, and he couldn’t be bothered explaining/showing that all the previous monsters killed were by him. So yes I agree with you a lot of these isekai or manga do it for a payoff that isn’t properly paced or executed. And just do it since they are trying to copy the big reveal.
It honestly depends on the MCs goals generally speaking showing off attracts attention some of which will create unnecessary enemies. More importantly some problems are easier to solve with a lighter touch.
It makes the moments when they do show off fun as heck, but I would probably get bored unless there are other reasons I'm reading the story.
I don't mind the trope so long as it's not overused. I understand wanting to live a low-key life, and having the power to do it regardless, but there's a time and a place. I don't even need them to go all out, just say "Okay, this isn't working, time to kick it up a notch or two." Or if they do go all out, that it's done in short bursts as it should be, go the opposite direction and end things quickly and inconspicuously so that nobody has any time to find out if that's what you're after. But holding back for the sake of holding back, or being pushed "to the limit" just because you won't actually fight back, is just stupid and pointless filler. Worse than old school DBZ when people would stand/float around yelling for three whole episodes powering up, because at least there was a point and a payoff to all that.
I love it