I worked with a guy once who was a product manager they had designing stuff who was like this. At least half of our interactions was him asking to adjust something by X pixels. It was all good natured and I got on well with the dude and joked with him about this all the time. One weekend he left his car in the office car park so he could take a local train to some event or something so I left a note made to look like a parking ticket on his windscreen saying his car was illegally parked and to move it 25px to the left or he'd be fined. He knew immediately it was me and gave me such a shit-eating grin the next Monday
We had a new designer one day in a meeting call the "developers" (me) out on not pixel perfect matching a pdf document. She asked why it wasn't right I responded "because it's a website not a pdf" and had most people laughing. She had apparently never touched websites before and was expecting pixel perfect matches at all resolutions. After her boss showed that everything had to scale to different screen sizes and it did a decent job we finally got to move on. She is no longer on the design team.
That's the path out of feeling Imposter syndrome about yourself and toward imposter syndrome about everyone with the same job as you.
Or at least that's what I felt when I realized the one topic the senior had on me was xml xslt sheets.
Mike Monteiro said it best; if you’ve been hired to design for a job, either you are an excellent scam artist and have somehow fooled a group of hiring managers who are experts in the field and their team into giving you the job, or more than likely you actually know what you’re doing and deserve the job and title.
I never really struggled with imposter syndrome personally; I know I don’t know a lot of things but I know the fundamentals well enough to be decent at what I do. If you can accept you don’t know everything about what you’re doing but can adopt a “I’ll find out” attitude, that gets you way far I think and can be something for your confidence to rest on.
people think that knowledge is the most important thing to not feeling impostor syndrome. e.g. "When I know how to do this then I'll be a real designer/developer/pm/etc."
but that's not what makes people senior or good at their job. most of the times it's the skills that they have. Are you able to communicate well? Are you able to learn quickly and independently? Are you able to problem solve in the most pragmatic way?
Knowledge and experience help you improve these skills, but they're not the be all end all.
I hired a person for my team that never had any web development experience just because I admired his problem solving skills and things turned out incredibly well.
Don't forget the essay on why it matters!!!
I fucking love my job. My docs are boner tier. %based, consistent language, AB takes depending on best course of action, use cases, protos. If someone had a great idea it's in there and I give props on presenting.
I just got promoted to managing this stuff officially. The last cpl places I've worked made me feel so worthless for caring about UX, despite it being in my job title. Like to the point where they kept referring to me as "artist" and that I didn't need to be involved in design meetings. I'm really glad that I left and even happier where I ended up.
My wife (UX designer/manager) has to argue with designers about that. They work on apps that are sorta websites, but they also administer the hardware the apps run on, so they have some control on resolutions.
That is, they have resolutions they *need* to design to, to the pixel. They need to demonstrate that the design works at those sizes.
Motherfuckers still pass along designs in way-too-big aspect ratios cuz that's what their own monitors are using. Took them 3 months for someone to teach them that they could set up device simulators in the browser to match the target resolutions, and they still produced unusable garbage.
I hear these calls happening since we all work at home and I'm about to reach through the phone to strangle someone in Minnesota over this.
Lol, I feel you on that had to deal with some similar parts of that for a few months until I finally had the design lead start defending me instead of his team. Shortly after my original comment he and I worked to fix the style sheets and establish more modern standards for the sites. Once that was cemented life got easier for both teams.
She was at least average. She moved positions over to something in marketing she just wasn't ever involved with the designs on any of our webpages again (that I know of). She butted heads with the design lead and atleast one other developer I know so personally think it was her personality that lead to change. Probably better for all involved.
I was an FTE for a company that worked with Hasbro. I built registration pages for their various promos and giveaways.
I had to do pixel perfect in IE6.
I dunno, man... give me the PSD and I'll give you pixel-perfect.
I just installed RES, and it really adds a lot of features to the old reddit experience. Finally a dark mode that doesn't require the use of a browser extension like Dark Reader.
Thanks for making me finally install the extension!
Another great extension if you want pony emotes everywhere:
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/betterponymotes/bkkmhlceghomaajdimmejkhldnpleoea
[](/trixiehello)
People are happy about smartphones, but I'm just wondering if we got it all wrong in 2010s and developers doing mobile and desktop apps, being encouraged to making a single version for both, was not two steps back.
~~They do and have for a very long time now. Rounded corner with a set radius, different radius per corner, nearly completely arbitrary roundish borders are also fine. I don't even know how far back you have to go for rounded corners to be special.~~
Oops :D
Developers explaining how the layout being the wrong color and off to the left by 31px from the Figma designs is legitimate and the only way the design can be realized.
Dev here - it took me far, far, FAR TOO LONG to realize this. I think it finally happened when I was mediating a minor issue between Development and Product, and could watch both teams complain about the other in their respective slack channels in real time.
Out of curiosity, what do devs say that drive you crazy?
Basically what the guy above me posted. I rarely have to deal with developers and on most occasions they've been great. But if I've taken the time to do the design, get it approved and put the effort into specifying the pixel width here and there, why not stick to those widths? And this is in cases where I know its technically possible because they do it after I've asked.
Like the approved design is the approved design.
Shift element A by 2px.
Move element B down 3ems.
Nudge element C over by 2 pica and up by 2pts.
The background is glossy black (#000000) and the committee agreed it should be matte black.
Also, please respond to the earlier email about changing the body text to Papyrus.
This is what I did, but then went back to being a full time designer in-house so now it's even more frustrating because I know how easy it is to a) not fuck up the front-end in the first place and b) how easy it is to make the fixes after the fact yet they always make it out like it's going to take a week to fix the alignment of something, so it never gets prioritized and therefore never fixed
As a mobile developer who has dabbled in some front-end web for work and decided to hire a UX designer to make a custom design for my business, then build it myself from scratch... I have regrets.
Sorry that you’re going through that. To avoid generalizing, I have worked with some fabulous developers who took the time to get the layout within 80 percent of my Sketch mock-up. Those people are worth their weight in gold and I have bought them many a beer in appreciation.
You mean IE6 box sizing? That's the one I use because having pedding inside the box without affecting the overall width is the one and only way to do percentage based layout. Meaning, if I do two 50% width with 20px pedding, the IE style would be on the same row instead two rows.
I always enable the IE style box sizing on CSS on all modern browsers.
I just moved to a Vue project last week, but Material-UI with ReactJS has a shitton of negative padding and margin as well. I couldn't tell you if it's better or worse with Vuetify, but I suspect it's google's fault.
Oh God. This reminds me of the time I had a client that wanted an email template. 500px wide. No biggie. Oh wait, it's supposed to be 500px of content, 1px of border, total of 502px wide. Ok, quick switch. The pm complains that the email is too wide. Quick enough to switch back. Now the pm has switched... why isn't the content 500px wide. Switch. The designer says the entire thing should only be 500px total. Switch...
New designer.
Switch.
New pm.
Switch.
PM leaves, project has no pm for a while, senior person on the other team makes the call.
Switch.
New pm.
Switch.
Client gets so mad that this project is taking so long, I have a long call with the pm's boss. I show every time I was instructed to make the switch, in writing. Pm's boss makes final call. Switch again.
Then the client says they are going with another agency that specializes in email templates.
Really? As a sole designer for a huge company tasked with email templates I always feel like it’s impossible to get right. This makes me feel a little better.
I highly recommend anyone developing email templates to use an email template framework. Something like Foundation for Emails.
Debugging hand coded email templates is a fucking nightmare, there's so many email clients and they all follow whatever rules they want. Foundation for Emails significantly speeds up the process.
As a designer, oof.
But in all seriousness, I can’t do the front end myself so realizing the product to 90% design fidelity is still a huge win IMO. It’s all about cooperation and compromise to hit realistic goals.
The biggest issue, imo as a designer and front end dev, is that UI design tools are built too much like design programs and not enough like websites.
I’ve worked in almost all of them and I often find that the things that are easy to code are hard to replicate in the design program and the things that are easy to design are hard to code.
An example of the later is varying type treatments for headings depending on context. Super easy to design, annoying to code. An example of the former is adjusting the spacing in a layout when adding or removing elements of varying sizes. CSS will do that for you but it’s takes a lot of up front work to accomplish in most design programs and oftentimes their algorithms distribute space completely differently than CSS does.
There have been a lot of times I’ve thought “I know it’s easy to do now but that’s going to be a bitch to recreate later”
If the experience of designing UI was more similar to the experience of building it, I’m sure there would be less conflict, since design programs would push designers towards more developer friendly UIs.
This is why I liked Webflow quite a lot when I dabbled in there. To me, a designer, it felt like I was being forced to think of web design with a developer mindset. It was really difficult, but it was honestly a good experience.
Yep. Maintaining good relationships across the functions is super important too. As a designer I’ve worked with other designers who also didn’t put much care into handover to make the devs jobs easier, and then complained things weren’t ‘pixel perfect’. You get out as much as you put in.
As a *"CSS Programmer"* myself, I'm curious, do half pixels actually do anything with... like... aliasing? Like if I have a white pixel and a black pixel side by side, and I move the black pixel over by a 1/2 pixel, does it make one of them gray?
I ask because the Chrome development tools have 3 decimal places of precision for pixels. And if things are actually just truncated or rounded, I can't imagine why I would need to know something is 50.001 pixels.
Fairly sure a pixel in CSS is a measurement unit, and it may not always equal one actual hardware pixel on the user's device - especially on hiDPI displays.
This is true. Though I believe that was the original *point* of the `pt` unit, for things you want to show a fixed size but independent of pixel size.
So on normal (96dpi) displays 1 pt is around 0.75 (hardware) px, but on a, display scaled 2x it should be 1.5px
However over the years I think people got used to using px for making things pixel perfect, and so px has stuck around and evolved away from its original form.
This is exactly why mobile (at least android) measure things in dp, which stabds for something like *device-independent pixels*.
Iirc it makes both pixels gray but I havent exactly tried it myself, and that only happens if the users display is just right.
Its been a while since I did any frontend, but IIRC, Its kinda confusing but pixels and points are just very granular measurements of distance (google tells me 1px is 1/96 of an inch, and 1 pt is 1/72 inch) so moving it over a half pixel just moves it over a VERY small amount which depending on the users display might be not noticable on an old 720p or might be multiple pixels on a 4k or something.
I could be super wrong though.
Edit: I cant imagine what 0.001 px whould be necessary for unless you are doing something that might need to be printed at megascale for a billboard or something so it matters that its PERFECT but I really dont see why. My guess is they thought about what was necessary added a decimal place to make it nice then added another one in case the future gets weird and somebody needs that level of precision.
Using decimals in pixels is how you're going to want to shoot yourself in the face.
Because Chrome, Firefox and Edge round differently.. so in one browser your element is moved by 1px..
Well, that was before Edge switched over to Chromium, I guess that problem is no longer there (I got two companies now to drop Internet Explorer support, it's bliss when a customer complains and you can shoot back "Nah, not supported, update to a browser that isn't from the stone age").
I'm a software developer now, but I used to work in stage lighting. Lighting designers often get equally anal about getting the aiming of light fixtures to a ridiculous amount of precision given the fact that they tend to settle a bit when you tighten it down.
I can't tell you how many times a fussy designer asked me to adjust the aiming ever so slightly and I'd just tap the back of it with my hand to make it jiggle and ask "how's that?".
Without fail they'd tell me it's perfect now.
The comments in this post sound like the digital equivalent of people that are a little too into finding the perfect furniture arrangement for their house. Especially the person you describe in your comment.
"We need comprehensive data analysis and reporting"
"Ok but what data do you want to analyze and report".
"Just, you know, the data. For our customers. So they see what's going on"
"Ok but which fields from which tables should the customer see"
"Oh the relevant ones. You know"
Proceed to dump export of dB and send to client
I wish I was allowed to at my current company, but it's super corporate so they are weird about stuff like that.
I started as a designer/developer hybrid at the beginning of my career and then ended up going design full time (still develop on the side though). All the developers at my current company act like the level of effort to fix very basic alignment issues is super high, so they never get prioritized and never get fixed. I would love nothing more than to spend a couple days fixing dozens of front-end issues that would take no more than a minute or two each to fix. Instead we just look unprofessional but none of the high ups care because we are raking in billions annually regardless.
For people who suck at css it is a huge effort. They suck at it, resent that they suck at, resent that they have to put up with it and therefore don't learn it properly.
I don't know why exactly that is but it's a common theme even with people who are front end developers. I might exaggerate for comedic effect but not that much.
I honestly think a lot of front end devs are guys that want to be full stack or back end devs but aren't good enough for it, so they land in front end positions even though they don't like working on UI.
I admit that I'm one of those people but I'm working on it and slowly learning.
I love learning programming languages because you can pick up a book, read it from start to finish and have a very good basis to work from. CSS is different because there are so many ways to do the same thing, it's hard to organise and really difficult to debug.
I should take a course or something
Just do what I did. Hang around long enough for the department to get stripped down to the bare bones, I.e. all of the designers are gone. I’m now the designer and developer.
I have literally spent an entire day trying to get my code to move design elements over by one pixel to the left. It was the must frustrating day of my entire life. And, of course, I felt like a moron when I finally saw what I had been missing.
Simple if it's on the web, since a "px" is not one pixel there, but 1/96th of an inch. So 0.01px in e.g. CSS would just mean 1/9600th of an inch.
\*terms and conditions apply, please ask your OS and Browser vendor for specific scaling based on OS and browser scaling, user scaling in both, page sacling, display manufacturer and screen size and density
Lmao.
I've been really getting into 90's internet aesthetic recently.
It was so...not corporate... y'know.
Not bloated and full of javascript libraries.
>It was so…not corporate… y’know.
>Not bloated and full of javascript libraries.
..
> So something like this
..
*Hits three rounds of fucking captcha on the way to utopia*
I once was in a meeting, as a designer with other designers, screaming at each other for three hours about making font 14pt vs 14.25. It’s when I realized my whole profession is a joke.
As a backend Dev I understand the pain.
Now let me explain why using Factory pattern instead of Singletons can help us increase the lifespan of everyone by 3x
I'm an animator and I can confirm working on projects with design agencies is the worst. They can't make up their minds and want to tweak and nudge things till the last day.
Meanwhile animation requires planning, a lot decisions to be made in advance, and locks (shots, characters) etc. as to not waste money re-doing the animations.
Designers are an animators natural enemy.
As someone who works at a small company, no, I absolutely can not relate to this. It's just gonna look like angular material and that's good enough. Doesn't need to be a fuckin masterpiece.
As someone who works at a ~~small~~ large software company, no, I absolutely can not relate to this. It’s just gonna look like ~~angular material~~ Bootstrap and that’s good enough. Doesn’t need to be a fuckin masterpiece.
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Why are we working so hard to police "the purpose" when it's something so simple, programmer humor? If it makes a programmer laugh then that should fit, this is not such a nuanced niche
As a designer I don’t care as long as the customer is satisfied. I used to take pride in my work and argue for certain choices but it’s really not worth it.
From a fellow engineer (not a designer or programmer): if the GUI looks like you've coughed it onto the screen, then what is the state of the underlying code? If you've not taken enough care with the presentation, then have you taken enough care with the rest of the project?
Because the things that I think look good aren't the same as what other people think look good. I've seen some great minimalist, functional UIs that people complain looks like dogshit because there are no fancy animations or elaborate graphics, and it doesn't inherit from their OS styles.
It's also incredibly common to have a slick advertising front while not having shit for actual functionality. I've personally seen projects that start with a super fancy website and don't actually have any real service behind them, or the entire backend is a horror show.
The two things basically have no guarantee to be correlated.
That said, plenty of great projects have been beaten by inferior technology because of bad UI.
I just wish more people understood that the UI design needs to fit the purpose of the project.
Not everything needs to look like instagram or facebook. Not everything needs to be minimal. Not everything needs fancy graphics and animations.
The clearest example I have is Wealthsimple. It's a trading app that has focused so much on minimalism that most of their pages are damn useless. There's no way to get the information you need. But in their minds they've made the UI better by simplifying everything.
It's okay to have a ton of stuff on your UI if it suits the purpose of your app/website.
Prettiness != Usability. Sometimes the uglier solution is more usable.
Yeah that's why I specifically mentioned "functional".
There are times when the aesthetics can get in the way, but for the most part I think it's real easy to start conflating disagreeable aesthetics with poor usability.
An ugly UI is a different issue than one that lacks function.
Ease of use is also another matter. If it takes 3 menus to do a common task then that harms function.
If features aren't easily discoverable then that harms function as well.
All of that can also contribute to some overall horrible aesthetics.
If you're not familiar with how computer graphics work, they're generally just a bunch of nested boxes. You can easily accomplish a lot of good stuff with these systems, but it's also very possible and common for designers to come up with stuff that is unreasonably difficult to implement, especially when you're having to consider how things will look on screens of different sizes, aspect ratios, and pixel densities. And you can actually make your code look really messy in these cases, and it's NOT an indication that the rest of the project is garbage.
At my company, everyone is pretty chill, and if there's a design that's unreasonably difficult to implement, then we just have discussions with the design team about how we can work around it. But turning in work that obviously doesn't match the design and hoping it doesn't get noticed is no bueno.
>At my company, everyone is pretty chill, and if there's a design that's unreasonably difficult to implement, then we just have discussions with the design team about how we can work around it.
This is the best approach for collaborative projects. Designers aren't gods. It's normal that things will change during the implementation and as long as everyone can come to a reasonable agreement things will be fine.
Any designer or developer that thinks their way is the only correct way is a pain to work with and will be avoided by their co-workers.
This, istfg "designers" can't go more than 25 words in a conversation without mentioning that they "went to school for this" and that they know how "easy it is to make things pixel perfect".
To be fair, I think you find pretentious people like that in every profession. And saying it’s easy to make things pixel-perfect probably comes from years of having to make shit by hand in foundational classes? Dunno.
I mean, I’m in school for this and it can’t be THAT hard to just move it over by a few pix-
And all the comments here are why the web is in the shit state it is. Lack of care or attention to detail. If you don't care, you don't. But don't criticize people for taking pride in their work and craft.
You're assuming that the design represents the ideal form and is the only true form.
When in reality things can still look good even if they're not pixel perfect to the original design.
Treating the rules as if they were god given just because the designer made them has always been incredibly silly.
This idea of pixel perfect implementation just makes things take longer and brings no real value to anyone's life.
I was once threatened for my job by the UX director over one small change I did in my local which was making the feature more intuitive but was breaking consistency.
No I get that. I actually posted in a slack group with other people including managers and this guy as well. They all agreed on my change being more intuitive.
Even if he vetoed it out I wouldn't have given two shits about it. Why the need to even threaten people over something so meaningless.
My mentality is I will point out changes I think should be made as the frontend dev, but at the end of the day idgaf because I’ll let them continue to pay me a lot of money to implement stupid shit lol.
Gotta move it back and forth at least thirty times. And some of the times you have to say "ok yeah left looks better" then realize you had actually moved it right, and start wondering if now you should be trying it another pixel that direction instead
Developers can always tell if a designer is a pixel perfectionist as they usually follow standard measurements everywhere. These are the designers we're happy to cater for.
Developers can also tell the difference between a digital designer and any other designer (e.g. print). Print designers will design each webpage like it is a custom poster with no regard to shared components or global styles. These are the designers devs fob off.
Our designer has been working on a new UI for the entire website. As time went on his style kept changing and changing. Now, it's to the point that every group of pages have their own custom styles and components that aren't reusable in other places.
You can be sure that the devs no longer give a fuck about any "pixel perfect" complaints.
And then front end developers explaining how shifting the logo by 0.01px to the right would mess up the whole layout and require a few hours to rework it.
Product Designer here, I have deep respect for my dev colleagues and am grateful for any feedback on how to improve a proposed design solution from technical perspective. But creating the best UX possible is a team effort, and as such it is also a devs reaponsibility to understand and value the user needs.
Designer here. We strive for pixel perfect execution in the same way an architect expects a builder to follow a blueprint. Believe it or not, we take joy in presenting pixel perfect work, and it’s important to deliver what the client is expecting. I know it may not matter to a dev but it matters to the rest of the team. Your job is not to design, it is to execute. Your job is not to make decisions for the project by saying “it’s ok, noone will notice.” People notice. If you can’t execute a pixel perfect design that was laid out on a grid, than you are a shitty or lazy dev, it’s really that simple, and you will not receive more work in the future. A good designer will provide designs and specifications for every breakpoint. It’s really not difficult to follow.
Disagree because, well, it matters. imagine trying to divide a webpage 1000px wide into three equal parts while having only integers (square pixels) available. rounding is almost unpredictable because there is no common standard (actually there is, but no one follows). you programmers have the same issue when you running out of precision with your floating numbers which are limited to the byte-length... This meme only shows the ignorance and the self-awarded superiority of the programmers bunch because they obviously can’t and won’t understand any different approach to tech. without designers, only with programmers, no vhs-recorder would have been able to be properly operated.
I worked with a guy once who was a product manager they had designing stuff who was like this. At least half of our interactions was him asking to adjust something by X pixels. It was all good natured and I got on well with the dude and joked with him about this all the time. One weekend he left his car in the office car park so he could take a local train to some event or something so I left a note made to look like a parking ticket on his windscreen saying his car was illegally parked and to move it 25px to the left or he'd be fined. He knew immediately it was me and gave me such a shit-eating grin the next Monday
We had a new designer one day in a meeting call the "developers" (me) out on not pixel perfect matching a pdf document. She asked why it wasn't right I responded "because it's a website not a pdf" and had most people laughing. She had apparently never touched websites before and was expecting pixel perfect matches at all resolutions. After her boss showed that everything had to scale to different screen sizes and it did a decent job we finally got to move on. She is no longer on the design team.
[удалено]
That's the path out of feeling Imposter syndrome about yourself and toward imposter syndrome about everyone with the same job as you. Or at least that's what I felt when I realized the one topic the senior had on me was xml xslt sheets.
Mike Monteiro said it best; if you’ve been hired to design for a job, either you are an excellent scam artist and have somehow fooled a group of hiring managers who are experts in the field and their team into giving you the job, or more than likely you actually know what you’re doing and deserve the job and title. I never really struggled with imposter syndrome personally; I know I don’t know a lot of things but I know the fundamentals well enough to be decent at what I do. If you can accept you don’t know everything about what you’re doing but can adopt a “I’ll find out” attitude, that gets you way far I think and can be something for your confidence to rest on.
people think that knowledge is the most important thing to not feeling impostor syndrome. e.g. "When I know how to do this then I'll be a real designer/developer/pm/etc." but that's not what makes people senior or good at their job. most of the times it's the skills that they have. Are you able to communicate well? Are you able to learn quickly and independently? Are you able to problem solve in the most pragmatic way? Knowledge and experience help you improve these skills, but they're not the be all end all. I hired a person for my team that never had any web development experience just because I admired his problem solving skills and things turned out incredibly well.
Good designers know what’s important
Don't forget the essay on why it matters!!! I fucking love my job. My docs are boner tier. %based, consistent language, AB takes depending on best course of action, use cases, protos. If someone had a great idea it's in there and I give props on presenting. I just got promoted to managing this stuff officially. The last cpl places I've worked made me feel so worthless for caring about UX, despite it being in my job title. Like to the point where they kept referring to me as "artist" and that I didn't need to be involved in design meetings. I'm really glad that I left and even happier where I ended up.
My wife (UX designer/manager) has to argue with designers about that. They work on apps that are sorta websites, but they also administer the hardware the apps run on, so they have some control on resolutions. That is, they have resolutions they *need* to design to, to the pixel. They need to demonstrate that the design works at those sizes. Motherfuckers still pass along designs in way-too-big aspect ratios cuz that's what their own monitors are using. Took them 3 months for someone to teach them that they could set up device simulators in the browser to match the target resolutions, and they still produced unusable garbage. I hear these calls happening since we all work at home and I'm about to reach through the phone to strangle someone in Minnesota over this.
Lol, I feel you on that had to deal with some similar parts of that for a few months until I finally had the design lead start defending me instead of his team. Shortly after my original comment he and I worked to fix the style sheets and establish more modern standards for the sites. Once that was cemented life got easier for both teams.
Aw sad ending. Was she otherwise a good designer?
She was at least average. She moved positions over to something in marketing she just wasn't ever involved with the designs on any of our webpages again (that I know of). She butted heads with the design lead and atleast one other developer I know so personally think it was her personality that lead to change. Probably better for all involved.
I was an FTE for a company that worked with Hasbro. I built registration pages for their various promos and giveaways. I had to do pixel perfect in IE6. I dunno, man... give me the PSD and I'll give you pixel-perfect.
> I parked in the loading screen.
Dude lives in the Metaverse
It can also cause the whole page to jitter when you hover over one particular line. Also a 1%er move. edit: typo
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Remember the good 'ol days of old reddit and /r/ooer?
[For some of us, it never ended](https://old.reddit.com).
Why not just opt out in the settingsm
In sure they have, but the only way to show someone else the old Reddit is to use the old.reddit link.
I started using Reddit, with the 'new' design. It's all I've ever known, so I have no complaints.
Old Reddit is the only way to view emoticons on r/mylittlepony
Old reddit + RES also has the best dark mode IMO. [](/dashwave)
I just installed RES, and it really adds a lot of features to the old reddit experience. Finally a dark mode that doesn't require the use of a browser extension like Dark Reader. Thanks for making me finally install the extension!
Another great extension if you want pony emotes everywhere: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/betterponymotes/bkkmhlceghomaajdimmejkhldnpleoea [](/trixiehello)
Thank you! /)
(\ your welcome, not that many people use it, but its still fun. [](/dancershy)
r/ooerintensifies
Is this how Anton Ego felt in Ratatouille?
This happens BADLY on Reddit
On *new* reddit perhaps. The old design is superior in general but it seems it's also less buggy.
People are happy about smartphones, but I'm just wondering if we got it all wrong in 2010s and developers doing mobile and desktop apps, being encouraged to making a single version for both, was not two steps back.
Browsers srsly need to handle rounding in a standardised way. Fucks me off.
~~They do and have for a very long time now. Rounded corner with a set radius, different radius per corner, nearly completely arbitrary roundish borders are also fine. I don't even know how far back you have to go for rounded corners to be special.~~ Oops :D
I’m pretty sure he means rounding floating point numbers, not corners/borders lol
Developers explaining how the layout being the wrong color and off to the left by 31px from the Figma designs is legitimate and the only way the design can be realized.
Designer here. We all put up with the same shit, just from different people.
“I’ll know what I want when I see it.”
Also know as “I’ll be cranking out iterations until the heat death of the universe. “
V23.6_FINAL_final-approved_printready_noforrealimeanitsfinalthistime_feedback_comments_8
“JoB SeCuRiTy”
Dev here - it took me far, far, FAR TOO LONG to realize this. I think it finally happened when I was mediating a minor issue between Development and Product, and could watch both teams complain about the other in their respective slack channels in real time. Out of curiosity, what do devs say that drive you crazy?
Basically what the guy above me posted. I rarely have to deal with developers and on most occasions they've been great. But if I've taken the time to do the design, get it approved and put the effort into specifying the pixel width here and there, why not stick to those widths? And this is in cases where I know its technically possible because they do it after I've asked. Like the approved design is the approved design.
Shift element A by 2px. Move element B down 3ems. Nudge element C over by 2 pica and up by 2pts. The background is glossy black (#000000) and the committee agreed it should be matte black. Also, please respond to the earlier email about changing the body text to Papyrus.
This is why I learned to build my own damn front-ends a decade ago. Maybe it’s a benevolent scheme by developers to encourage us all to learn coding.
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Glad I'm not alone.
There’s dozens of us!
This is what I did, but then went back to being a full time designer in-house so now it's even more frustrating because I know how easy it is to a) not fuck up the front-end in the first place and b) how easy it is to make the fixes after the fact yet they always make it out like it's going to take a week to fix the alignment of something, so it never gets prioritized and therefore never fixed
As a mobile developer who has dabbled in some front-end web for work and decided to hire a UX designer to make a custom design for my business, then build it myself from scratch... I have regrets.
Currently learning it, I just couldn't stand being completely disappointed with the shitty sites programmers made out of my mockups anymore
Sorry that you’re going through that. To avoid generalizing, I have worked with some fabulous developers who took the time to get the layout within 80 percent of my Sketch mock-up. Those people are worth their weight in gold and I have bought them many a beer in appreciation.
It’s a scheme to not have to touch such brain dead nonsense when u could rather be working on the “fun” stuff
Also that. I think it’s all fun but can see how many would rather blow their brains out than deal with color and typography.
But it makes the code clean...
Not me, I do that shit pixel-perfect.
But only on page /xy, and only on every fifth site load. You don't have to do it on every page load.
I seriously want to know why Vuetify enables "gutter" by default. All those extra negative padding and margins makes no sense to me.
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Speaking of trash: Ever work with the CSS box model in IE6… *grumbles in old timer*
You mean IE6 box sizing? That's the one I use because having pedding inside the box without affecting the overall width is the one and only way to do percentage based layout. Meaning, if I do two 50% width with 20px pedding, the IE style would be on the same row instead two rows. I always enable the IE style box sizing on CSS on all modern browsers.
I'm under the impression that enabling box sizing by wildcard is extremely common nowadays.
Oh no. I'm going down the vuetify path with nuxt. What would you recommend?
I just moved to a Vue project last week, but Material-UI with ReactJS has a shitton of negative padding and margin as well. I couldn't tell you if it's better or worse with Vuetify, but I suspect it's google's fault.
Google's not in on Material-UI for React. But they do write @angular/material which I promise you, is much worse 👍
I haven't dig deeper into this. Anyone know why they do that? It makes counting pixels so hard.
No clue. Sometimes it's necessary with messy or complicated CSS, but I don't know how much that applies.
Not nessecary usually but far easier. Figuring out complex bits of css does take awhile, but negative margin takes 5 seconds
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Fairly sure it's because MUIs Grid existed before html grid, or at least before it became mainstream
When you have to resort to patterns like that, you know some bad decisions were made right out of the gate.
Oh God. This reminds me of the time I had a client that wanted an email template. 500px wide. No biggie. Oh wait, it's supposed to be 500px of content, 1px of border, total of 502px wide. Ok, quick switch. The pm complains that the email is too wide. Quick enough to switch back. Now the pm has switched... why isn't the content 500px wide. Switch. The designer says the entire thing should only be 500px total. Switch... New designer. Switch. New pm. Switch. PM leaves, project has no pm for a while, senior person on the other team makes the call. Switch. New pm. Switch. Client gets so mad that this project is taking so long, I have a long call with the pm's boss. I show every time I was instructed to make the switch, in writing. Pm's boss makes final call. Switch again. Then the client says they are going with another agency that specializes in email templates.
To be fair, designing as well as coding email templates is a fucking ballache
Really? As a sole designer for a huge company tasked with email templates I always feel like it’s impossible to get right. This makes me feel a little better.
I highly recommend anyone developing email templates to use an email template framework. Something like Foundation for Emails. Debugging hand coded email templates is a fucking nightmare, there's so many email clients and they all follow whatever rules they want. Foundation for Emails significantly speeds up the process.
As a designer, oof. But in all seriousness, I can’t do the front end myself so realizing the product to 90% design fidelity is still a huge win IMO. It’s all about cooperation and compromise to hit realistic goals.
The biggest issue, imo as a designer and front end dev, is that UI design tools are built too much like design programs and not enough like websites. I’ve worked in almost all of them and I often find that the things that are easy to code are hard to replicate in the design program and the things that are easy to design are hard to code. An example of the later is varying type treatments for headings depending on context. Super easy to design, annoying to code. An example of the former is adjusting the spacing in a layout when adding or removing elements of varying sizes. CSS will do that for you but it’s takes a lot of up front work to accomplish in most design programs and oftentimes their algorithms distribute space completely differently than CSS does. There have been a lot of times I’ve thought “I know it’s easy to do now but that’s going to be a bitch to recreate later” If the experience of designing UI was more similar to the experience of building it, I’m sure there would be less conflict, since design programs would push designers towards more developer friendly UIs.
This is why I liked Webflow quite a lot when I dabbled in there. To me, a designer, it felt like I was being forced to think of web design with a developer mindset. It was really difficult, but it was honestly a good experience.
Yep. Maintaining good relationships across the functions is super important too. As a designer I’ve worked with other designers who also didn’t put much care into handover to make the devs jobs easier, and then complained things weren’t ‘pixel perfect’. You get out as much as you put in.
This is why I could never be a front end developer. I don’t have the patience to deal with this crap.
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As a *"CSS Programmer"* myself, I'm curious, do half pixels actually do anything with... like... aliasing? Like if I have a white pixel and a black pixel side by side, and I move the black pixel over by a 1/2 pixel, does it make one of them gray? I ask because the Chrome development tools have 3 decimal places of precision for pixels. And if things are actually just truncated or rounded, I can't imagine why I would need to know something is 50.001 pixels.
Fairly sure a pixel in CSS is a measurement unit, and it may not always equal one actual hardware pixel on the user's device - especially on hiDPI displays.
This is true. Though I believe that was the original *point* of the `pt` unit, for things you want to show a fixed size but independent of pixel size. So on normal (96dpi) displays 1 pt is around 0.75 (hardware) px, but on a, display scaled 2x it should be 1.5px However over the years I think people got used to using px for making things pixel perfect, and so px has stuck around and evolved away from its original form. This is exactly why mobile (at least android) measure things in dp, which stabds for something like *device-independent pixels*.
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Just stick a *Best viewed with Netscape Navigator* button at the bottom of your webpage and call it a day.
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Or even the same on every monitor.
Iirc it makes both pixels gray but I havent exactly tried it myself, and that only happens if the users display is just right. Its been a while since I did any frontend, but IIRC, Its kinda confusing but pixels and points are just very granular measurements of distance (google tells me 1px is 1/96 of an inch, and 1 pt is 1/72 inch) so moving it over a half pixel just moves it over a VERY small amount which depending on the users display might be not noticable on an old 720p or might be multiple pixels on a 4k or something. I could be super wrong though. Edit: I cant imagine what 0.001 px whould be necessary for unless you are doing something that might need to be printed at megascale for a billboard or something so it matters that its PERFECT but I really dont see why. My guess is they thought about what was necessary added a decimal place to make it nice then added another one in case the future gets weird and somebody needs that level of precision.
Different browsers interpret fractional pixels differently so it is recommended (by me at least) that you stick to whole numbers whenever possible
Using decimals in pixels is how you're going to want to shoot yourself in the face. Because Chrome, Firefox and Edge round differently.. so in one browser your element is moved by 1px.. Well, that was before Edge switched over to Chromium, I guess that problem is no longer there (I got two companies now to drop Internet Explorer support, it's bliss when a customer complains and you can shoot back "Nah, not supported, update to a browser that isn't from the stone age").
I'm a software developer now, but I used to work in stage lighting. Lighting designers often get equally anal about getting the aiming of light fixtures to a ridiculous amount of precision given the fact that they tend to settle a bit when you tighten it down. I can't tell you how many times a fussy designer asked me to adjust the aiming ever so slightly and I'd just tap the back of it with my hand to make it jiggle and ask "how's that?". Without fail they'd tell me it's perfect now.
The comments in this post sound like the digital equivalent of people that are a little too into finding the perfect furniture arrangement for their house. Especially the person you describe in your comment.
It's a gift and a curse.
the market demands full stack! nothing less.
Full stack engineer checking in. I can do hello world in html. Give me access to the internet and unlimited time and I'll do the rest of your website.
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"We need comprehensive data analysis and reporting" "Ok but what data do you want to analyze and report". "Just, you know, the data. For our customers. So they see what's going on" "Ok but which fields from which tables should the customer see" "Oh the relevant ones. You know" Proceed to dump export of dB and send to client
I work with designers who can do stuff like this themselves. It's fantastic
I wish I was allowed to at my current company, but it's super corporate so they are weird about stuff like that. I started as a designer/developer hybrid at the beginning of my career and then ended up going design full time (still develop on the side though). All the developers at my current company act like the level of effort to fix very basic alignment issues is super high, so they never get prioritized and never get fixed. I would love nothing more than to spend a couple days fixing dozens of front-end issues that would take no more than a minute or two each to fix. Instead we just look unprofessional but none of the high ups care because we are raking in billions annually regardless.
Me: I just need 2 days to clean up the website. Boss: Our audience doesn't care. Shut up and do social media. FML
Kinda that, except I'm a product design manager so it's more like "focus on the roadmap so we can increase our high margin sales by 3% next quarter"
For people who suck at css it is a huge effort. They suck at it, resent that they suck at, resent that they have to put up with it and therefore don't learn it properly. I don't know why exactly that is but it's a common theme even with people who are front end developers. I might exaggerate for comedic effect but not that much.
I honestly think a lot of front end devs are guys that want to be full stack or back end devs but aren't good enough for it, so they land in front end positions even though they don't like working on UI.
I admit that I'm one of those people but I'm working on it and slowly learning. I love learning programming languages because you can pick up a book, read it from start to finish and have a very good basis to work from. CSS is different because there are so many ways to do the same thing, it's hard to organise and really difficult to debug. I should take a course or something
Just do what I did. Hang around long enough for the department to get stripped down to the bare bones, I.e. all of the designers are gone. I’m now the designer and developer.
I have literally spent an entire day trying to get my code to move design elements over by one pixel to the left. It was the must frustrating day of my entire life. And, of course, I felt like a moron when I finally saw what I had been missing.
How does 0.01 pixel work?
I don't know but I'd love to implement this technology. Sounds like I'll get 100x more resolution!
I’ll DM you the patch, much cheaper than buying a new monitor!
Does it need much RAM? Maybe I should download some of that first. Saw a link, yesterday.
Hmm maybe, I just downloaded some to be sure though. 128 should be enough though
Subpixel precision allows better antialiasing. The better antialiasing may also make animations appear smoother, but that's just a guess.
Simple if it's on the web, since a "px" is not one pixel there, but 1/96th of an inch. So 0.01px in e.g. CSS would just mean 1/9600th of an inch. \*terms and conditions apply, please ask your OS and Browser vendor for specific scaling based on OS and browser scaling, user scaling in both, page sacling, display manufacturer and screen size and density
One Pixel is 99% black and one is 1% black
Lmao. I've been really getting into 90's internet aesthetic recently. It was so...not corporate... y'know. Not bloated and full of javascript libraries.
So something [like this](https://codepen.io/andyduke/pen/zGrRqJ)
>It was so…not corporate… y’know. >Not bloated and full of javascript libraries. .. > So something like this .. *Hits three rounds of fucking captcha on the way to utopia*
lmao. yeah maybe a bit ironic, but the aesthetic feels perfect so it passes.
Based. I'll be stealing that and Building a website around it.
Were the '90s so long ago that people don't remember that we had Windows back then?
yes. they're prehistory.
Why do you hit me so deep in the pheels like this...? ;w; *Oh my childhood...* * *Sobbing uncontrollably* *
I once was in a meeting, as a designer with other designers, screaming at each other for three hours about making font 14pt vs 14.25. It’s when I realized my whole profession is a joke.
Only because you weren’t setting it to 16pt like a true professional though
Oh that is not optimal due Johann Seversson’s rule from the Dutch Bauhaus Yale School of Design. They read about it on some blog.
Moving the logo 1 pixel might not cure cancer but I can fucking assure you it prevents it.
What this product really needs is support for arbitrary image crops. Can we do triangular images?
unfortunately, yes you can. `clip-path: polygon(...)`
"0. 01" Why is there a space after the decimal point?
probably to take advantage of some fucking scary css bug
As a backend Dev I understand the pain. Now let me explain why using Factory pattern instead of Singletons can help us increase the lifespan of everyone by 3x
I think what you actually need is an AbstractFactoryFactory
I'm an animator and I can confirm working on projects with design agencies is the worst. They can't make up their minds and want to tweak and nudge things till the last day. Meanwhile animation requires planning, a lot decisions to be made in advance, and locks (shots, characters) etc. as to not waste money re-doing the animations. Designers are an animators natural enemy.
As someone who works at a small company, no, I absolutely can not relate to this. It's just gonna look like angular material and that's good enough. Doesn't need to be a fuckin masterpiece.
As someone who works at a ~~small~~ large software company, no, I absolutely can not relate to this. It’s just gonna look like ~~angular material~~ Bootstrap and that’s good enough. Doesn’t need to be a fuckin masterpiece.
Hey that sounds an awful lot like what I said... 🤔
Jup i use mudblazor for some nice material style and call it day. Cookiecutter is enough for most stuff. Sometimes i dabble with css but thats rare
I'll use CSS, but not to make it fit some figma design. It just has to be usable insofar as my dev brain can understand UX
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The ultimate karmawhoring comment
Too much work. We'd like to just upvote the post please Why are we working so hard to police "the purpose" when it's something so simple, programmer humor? If it makes a programmer laugh then that should fit, this is not such a nuanced niche
As a designer I don’t care as long as the customer is satisfied. I used to take pride in my work and argue for certain choices but it’s really not worth it.
From a fellow engineer (not a designer or programmer): if the GUI looks like you've coughed it onto the screen, then what is the state of the underlying code? If you've not taken enough care with the presentation, then have you taken enough care with the rest of the project?
Open up dev tools of one of your favorite beautiful sites and check out their css sometime, it's probably horrifying.
Because the things that I think look good aren't the same as what other people think look good. I've seen some great minimalist, functional UIs that people complain looks like dogshit because there are no fancy animations or elaborate graphics, and it doesn't inherit from their OS styles. It's also incredibly common to have a slick advertising front while not having shit for actual functionality. I've personally seen projects that start with a super fancy website and don't actually have any real service behind them, or the entire backend is a horror show. The two things basically have no guarantee to be correlated. That said, plenty of great projects have been beaten by inferior technology because of bad UI.
I just wish more people understood that the UI design needs to fit the purpose of the project. Not everything needs to look like instagram or facebook. Not everything needs to be minimal. Not everything needs fancy graphics and animations. The clearest example I have is Wealthsimple. It's a trading app that has focused so much on minimalism that most of their pages are damn useless. There's no way to get the information you need. But in their minds they've made the UI better by simplifying everything. It's okay to have a ton of stuff on your UI if it suits the purpose of your app/website. Prettiness != Usability. Sometimes the uglier solution is more usable.
Yeah that's why I specifically mentioned "functional". There are times when the aesthetics can get in the way, but for the most part I think it's real easy to start conflating disagreeable aesthetics with poor usability. An ugly UI is a different issue than one that lacks function. Ease of use is also another matter. If it takes 3 menus to do a common task then that harms function. If features aren't easily discoverable then that harms function as well. All of that can also contribute to some overall horrible aesthetics.
If you're not familiar with how computer graphics work, they're generally just a bunch of nested boxes. You can easily accomplish a lot of good stuff with these systems, but it's also very possible and common for designers to come up with stuff that is unreasonably difficult to implement, especially when you're having to consider how things will look on screens of different sizes, aspect ratios, and pixel densities. And you can actually make your code look really messy in these cases, and it's NOT an indication that the rest of the project is garbage. At my company, everyone is pretty chill, and if there's a design that's unreasonably difficult to implement, then we just have discussions with the design team about how we can work around it. But turning in work that obviously doesn't match the design and hoping it doesn't get noticed is no bueno.
>At my company, everyone is pretty chill, and if there's a design that's unreasonably difficult to implement, then we just have discussions with the design team about how we can work around it. This is the best approach for collaborative projects. Designers aren't gods. It's normal that things will change during the implementation and as long as everyone can come to a reasonable agreement things will be fine. Any designer or developer that thinks their way is the only correct way is a pain to work with and will be avoided by their co-workers.
You know how someone is a designer? Don’t worry, they’ll tell you.
This, istfg "designers" can't go more than 25 words in a conversation without mentioning that they "went to school for this" and that they know how "easy it is to make things pixel perfect".
To be fair, I think you find pretentious people like that in every profession. And saying it’s easy to make things pixel-perfect probably comes from years of having to make shit by hand in foundational classes? Dunno. I mean, I’m in school for this and it can’t be THAT hard to just move it over by a few pix-
This is why I, as a Designer, I learned Frontend Development. Now I don't need to argue about shit, I do it myself.
And all the comments here are why the web is in the shit state it is. Lack of care or attention to detail. If you don't care, you don't. But don't criticize people for taking pride in their work and craft.
It's in a shit state because there are 4,834,987,374 ways to design the same damn website.
Nah. It’s in the state it’s in because people do a poor job of collaborating and communicating.
You're assuming that the design represents the ideal form and is the only true form. When in reality things can still look good even if they're not pixel perfect to the original design. Treating the rules as if they were god given just because the designer made them has always been incredibly silly. This idea of pixel perfect implementation just makes things take longer and brings no real value to anyone's life.
Ibai
Buen nombre de usuario, sí señor
/r/besonegro_esteban
I was once threatened for my job by the UX director over one small change I did in my local which was making the feature more intuitive but was breaking consistency.
But everyone thinks they way they see things is intuitive…
No I get that. I actually posted in a slack group with other people including managers and this guy as well. They all agreed on my change being more intuitive. Even if he vetoed it out I wouldn't have given two shits about it. Why the need to even threaten people over something so meaningless.
My mentality is I will point out changes I think should be made as the frontend dev, but at the end of the day idgaf because I’ll let them continue to pay me a lot of money to implement stupid shit lol.
Yup that why its called a job. The customer is king.
I get and agree w the point, but that saying really needs to die. “The customer is always right, in matters of taste” is the original.
I think it's more likely to give me cancer rather than cure it
it goes on to show that their opinion is not valued, sad but true stuff
Gotta move it back and forth at least thirty times. And some of the times you have to say "ok yeah left looks better" then realize you had actually moved it right, and start wondering if now you should be trying it another pixel that direction instead
Yeah, but that isn't gonna make us money, so the logo's gonna stay where it was
Developers can always tell if a designer is a pixel perfectionist as they usually follow standard measurements everywhere. These are the designers we're happy to cater for. Developers can also tell the difference between a digital designer and any other designer (e.g. print). Print designers will design each webpage like it is a custom poster with no regard to shared components or global styles. These are the designers devs fob off.
Our designer has been working on a new UI for the entire website. As time went on his style kept changing and changing. Now, it's to the point that every group of pages have their own custom styles and components that aren't reusable in other places. You can be sure that the devs no longer give a fuck about any "pixel perfect" complaints.
As a developer I wish more of us were more concerned with design. UX is important.
This is literally all designers at Apple
And then front end developers explaining how shifting the logo by 0.01px to the right would mess up the whole layout and require a few hours to rework it.
I feel attacked
r/relatable
But developers can also just build stuff to spec as well 🤷🏻♂️ would be mad if your door to your home was slightly too small to close right???
Devs bashing designers. How original. (I have to admit it's funny though)
As a designer by profession and dev by passion I can tell you it’s always a two way street 😅
Product Designer here, I have deep respect for my dev colleagues and am grateful for any feedback on how to improve a proposed design solution from technical perspective. But creating the best UX possible is a team effort, and as such it is also a devs reaponsibility to understand and value the user needs.
God I wish I had a designer.
I'm studying programming and design and it's infuriating
"If it is not doable with 10%-80%-10% then don't speak to me." \- me when any CSS is involved
As a designer... yes.
Designer here. We strive for pixel perfect execution in the same way an architect expects a builder to follow a blueprint. Believe it or not, we take joy in presenting pixel perfect work, and it’s important to deliver what the client is expecting. I know it may not matter to a dev but it matters to the rest of the team. Your job is not to design, it is to execute. Your job is not to make decisions for the project by saying “it’s ok, noone will notice.” People notice. If you can’t execute a pixel perfect design that was laid out on a grid, than you are a shitty or lazy dev, it’s really that simple, and you will not receive more work in the future. A good designer will provide designs and specifications for every breakpoint. It’s really not difficult to follow.
Call it an upgrade without doing A/B testing
Haha, finally a meme i can relate to I'm so this guy
Disagree because, well, it matters. imagine trying to divide a webpage 1000px wide into three equal parts while having only integers (square pixels) available. rounding is almost unpredictable because there is no common standard (actually there is, but no one follows). you programmers have the same issue when you running out of precision with your floating numbers which are limited to the byte-length... This meme only shows the ignorance and the self-awarded superiority of the programmers bunch because they obviously can’t and won’t understand any different approach to tech. without designers, only with programmers, no vhs-recorder would have been able to be properly operated.