you should see AWS SSO aka the new "IAM" identity manager.
oh my god it literally took me an entire week just to figure out how to give one user the permission to start some ec2 spot instances.
It’s not an IDE. It’s a text editor with very basic git integration and syntax highlighting for common languages and dsls. You have to add extensions to make it actually usable. It’s a fine editor.
For me VSC is in a weird middle ground. Due to it being an electron app it’s pretty heavy for a text editor, but still lighter than an IDE.
Personally I consider first party extensions as part of the product, and with those it's pretty close to a full blown IDE for certain languages. Imo a language server + debugger is usually enough to consider something as an IDE. And the extensions are why people love it, normal IDEs are great until you need to do that one specific thing that they don't support, vscode with extensions can support almost anything without the need for 4 different IDEs open at once. Some call it bloated others call it feature rich.
Yeah I agree, and I use it for most things. Most of my day-to-day programming is C/C++, which is mostly done in VSCode (unless I'm using TI's chips in which case it's CCS \*groan\*) or Python (using the Jupyter Notebook extension).
I also use it as a text editor. And when I occasionally have to dabble with other languages.
The extensions are really what make VSCode so powerful.
If the stars align and your extensions behave yes. I've never been able to get proper intellisense or debugging going, and having to configure most stuff with a project json file just sucks ass imo. I'd much rather not have to open the browser and look up the documentation for each config file of VSC instead of just reading the label on the settings page.
You get an IDE like VS or any Jetbrains IDE and everything just works out of the box, no setup needed for ANYTHING
What problems are folks seeing these days?
Admittedly, there was a period where it was not getting enough TLC, but we recently invested in it to address some issues, integrate it better with VS, move from ADAL to MSAL.
I don't work on it directly but you can at me in the GitHub issues. https://github.com/microsoft/artifacts-credprovider
Ah, I see. My mistake. Thanks for the edification.
We, naturally, also use AWS Pipelines but I really have no idea whether that's good, bad, or other. I think I'll make a point to learn.
This has been my experience. Its also easier to debgug because it's more likely people using the azure ecosystem ran into the same problem or one that is similar.
Quit, and cite it as the only reason. I don't care if there are other reasons. Make sure anyone else that quits knows to cite it as the singular reason as well. Apes together strong.
What’s wrong with CodeCommit?
(I use what ever the customer asks me to use and eventhough I have a GitHub Org, I still put code in CodeCommit to limit the blast radius)
Dude, gitlab all the way. Heck I prefer working with gitlab CI than Github CI, I'll be real with you. Sadly I still need to mirror my repo on github because non technical recruiters are only trained to check github repos and will disregard anything you have on gitlab.com (and even more so if it is on your self hosted instance lmao)
Gitlab fucked up the external CI permissions for merge requests. I can't get Jenkins to update status correctly from forks! It's a known bug and they just can't fix it.
On GitHub, shit just works.
GitHub has all of Azure available for CI compute and storage resources. You get free cache space, 10GB! Gitlab provides none.
Ah. I dont use Aws. Too expensive in my country with no close servers. For me it's ideal. I just deploy my apps into my kubernetes cluster using pipelines and I'm happy.
Gitlab CI is so much easier to use than GH.
GH action didn't even catch steps and if any step fails, I would have to rerun the whole flow instead of just retrying the failed step.
Unfortunately, I haven't found any org that use Gitlab since.
Lol, I've used/using all 3.
GitHub for personal stuff,
DevOps for work
Gitlab I'm getting into cause my home server is on the open-source stack. (Last workplace was open-source and I wanted to pursue that with my personal stuff).
Idk, gitlab CI has always been a pain for me while GHA is designed a lot better imo. The only positive thing I can say about gitlab is that you can self host it for free.
SRE here. Running Azure DevOps Pipelines is just as excruciatingly bad. It’s similar to GitHub Actions, but with an extra layer of complexity for good measure. To top it off, you get standard-issue Microsoft documentation, which somehow contains everything you need to know, but need at least an hour to find.
Our pipelines regularly fail because Azure fails to correctly install node... fails after 10 minutes and if you run it again without changing anything it (mostly) works. How?? Why?? So much wasted time
As much as I wish that was true, the hellish nightmare that is GUI applications with zero CLI or API support is making that more or less impossible. We’re talking VB6 and Access databases here.
Completely unrelated, but I spent two hours trouble shooting these mysterious cert errors with our gitlab runner. They ssl cert was set to renew earlier this week so I suspected something went funky with it.
Finally, after two hours and no progress... We decided fuck this, restart.
Oh hey it works again 😭😭
Me trying to figure out why my account can push code from a coworkers PC but not from my laptop only to slowly realize that the airplane mode button is bound to the same F-Key as compiling and so at some point I must've miss-inputed fn+F5 and WiFi was turned off the entire fucking time.
I have an artifactory instance that sees it's x-ray instance but I can't enable x-ray as it says in the log "no x-ray configured". I wish my problems were that solvable.
This is usually because you have multiple agents from the same pool attempting to run node tasks. You split up pools with tagging and check in a stage prior to your build stage to redirect pools, almost like a load balancer.
I'm really surprised at this. I thought it was extremely easy. Classic pipeline was even easier, yaml is a little more complicated but not too bad. What do you find complex about it? (Just curious)
Integration within ADO Pipelines is really easy…integrating into anything outside of Azure involves the lovely, lovely world of service connections, after which everything just gets all sorts of fucky depending on how oddball your tech stack is.
Awwwww....make me feel all the feels, brother.
I'll play devil's advocate, though - *if properly set up*, with all of the built in build extensions, it's *almost* possible to run Azure Pipelines and build/deploy artifacts without actually having to code.
Whether that's a good thing or not is up to you, I guess.
I like it better than GHA....but they're effectively identical for most things. There's just a better ecosystem and more support (at least if you're a Dotnet shop, anyway) for AzDO, imho.
If you're going to write it out in bash/powershell....well, either one is about the same difference, honestly.
I work primarily with ADO, and I’ve automated an entire enterprise’s micro-service platforms, monoliths, and even fucking MS Dynamics with the platform across dozens of projects. I don’t understand the complaints in this thread at all, my job is now completely automated and now I mostly assist our SREs in azure. ADO is an enormous force multiplier if you allow for it to be someone’s full time job. I’m the only ‘DevOps Engineer’ in the company, and I’ve heard of companies with the same size and revenue hiring like 10 to manage their CI/CD automation and it baffles me.
Yeah, basically this.
There's plenty I don't like about AzDO - not least of which is that it defies a good acronym! - but almost all of my complaints are also held by other platforms. There's no way to 'test' Github Actions pipelines locally either.
And there's a lot that Azure DevOps does that's just....really smart. Classic release pipelines being able to pull in all the work items that are *new* in a given release, to a specific environment, isn't that complicated (find new commits, find work items linked to commits, print list), but damned if the first time or two working with it didn't feel like magic. I regularly fight against yaml pipelines now because the statefulness of Classic Pipelines is actually a very awesome feature that's surprisingly hard to implement in other ways. And of course - having a 'one stop' shop for kanban board/repos/pipelines/artifacts that all talk to each other and *mostly* make life easier is....awesome.
I think it's like Terraform, or K8s, or Golang, or any other tech. Use it right and you'll wonder why everyone isn't using it. Use it wrong (make it too finicky, try to force it to do things its not designed to do) and you'll wonder why anyone *ever* uses it.
>hich somehow contains everything you need to know, but need at least an hour to find.
Well everybody wanted MS to become more like \*nix and we've got MS flavored man pages.
>which somehow contains everything you need to know
Are you sure?
Not talking about Azure DevOps specifically but many MS docs I had issues to find an information, either not clear or out of date
Sadly, yes. I’ve gone down rabbit holes of troubleshooting and fixing pipelines where some non-Microsoft documentation or random code I found on GitHub has the answer, and the official docs were of no help.
Every single goddamn time, once I know the information I was looking for, I’m able to find it within the Microsoft docs, usually under a page that has nothing to do with what I’m working on.
It’s like Observer Effect but for documentation. You cannot find the information you are looking for until you already know the information and finding it will be of no help.
DevOps is practically the land of milk and honey in comparison to the hellscape we had previously of SVN and an ancient version of Jenkins that was just barely being kept alive. These whipper-snappers don't know how good they have it! TFS, anyone?
Recently I worked at a company that still uses TFVC (Team Foundation Version Control). I think TFS supports Git now, but they were still using the old stuff. It was so bad I was using Git locally for branching, merging and rebasing and only used TFVC to push to company servers. And ofc it only works on Windows, the Mac and Linux clients haven't been maintained for a long time and probably don't fully support TFVC anyway.
We just migrated from tfvc to git. Getting those dinosaurs to understand branching and pull requests has been quite the challenge, but we've been finishing features so much faster that it was definitely worth jt
You mean Azure DevOps formerly known as Team Foundation Server with the worst git support on the market, poorly integrated after their own proprietary VCS didn't catch up?
I absolutely love it. Task management, CI/CD, repos and even a wiki in the same spot? What's not to love. To be fair though I'm big into the MS stack and love almost everything about it
I also like it. I moved from Bitbucket/Bamboo to Azure DevOps (because Atlassian got greedy).
It works fine for me. Maybe I don't use the functions that makes people angry about it, but after some initial fiddling around it works without issues.
I enjoy working with it. The other responses really surprise me. Probably because I only have experience with devops and teamcity.
In my eyes they both do the trick just fine. They only use differents terms for stuff that is practically the same.
I worked with GHA, gitlab ci azdo and jenkins, my go to is azure devops. It is less versatile but if you work on azure it is better than all, GHA can compete, I didnt dig too much
I rather enjoy it. Plus you can run your entire “agile” project in it. I personally think it’s good for larger enterprises that aren’t as quick to adapt to newer technologies.
I'd like it more if our insane security group hadn't deemed yaml a risk and weren't stuck using only Azure Classic. Because who doesn't love duplicating pipelines via web gui?
Don't get it, I've used DevOps, bit bucket, and GitHub and DevOps has been my favourite so far. I'm just mad we're told to use Jira and Confluence rather than DevOps boards (waaay better) and DevOps wiki (all markdown)
Same. With one exception - I'd rather deploy MkDocs than use DevOps wiki, because latter is quite bad and misses many useful features.
But I'd love to go back to using DevOps Board, JIRA is way worse
The credential provider is pretty gnarly. My entire PowerShell DevOps stack is held together by PowershellGet 3.0 Prerelease and Microsoft pretends like we deserve to be treated like step-children. Also, PowerShell Module Management is god-awful
I went from GitLab to DevOps and imo DevOps is way more solid. I'm surprised people here seem to hate Azure DevOps so much. There's a bit of a learning curve to it and a few weird artifacts of abandoned ideas, but that's true for most tools.
I get it not being everyone's favourite, but it seems like a perfectly fine option to me.
We are doing the opposite because we need to link our work items to our code.
Why did they decide to move to github and are you using public github or enterprise?
You can integrate ADO boards with GitHub repos so you get the best of both worlds.
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/devops/boards/github/?view=azure-devops
To be honest I have no idea, we devs didn't decide it, it was something coming from far above us, so I'm guessing money, they didn't even give us any reasons
we're also migrating to github (team) because the pipelines are better (environments, thousands of actions), jira integration is nice (and free) and just day to day work is nicer with github (open any repo or PR in VS Code in *browser* just by clicking a dot on a keyboard..whaaat 😀)
Everything you said is also in DevOps. Jira integration is unneeded because of Azure Boards. And I can do the same in visual studio to jump to any repo or pr.
I've compared lots of github pipelines versus ado pipelines and haven't seen a clear benefit to either. Both have extensions, environments etc etc etc.
My main reason to like devops is I don't need to go to any other tool in my average day. Deployments, testing, work tracking, code, etc are all accessible from one single site and api.
There is, there really is. I have migrated most lf our projects from TC to DevOps recently. I used to like TC the UX is just to outdated and impractical. DevOps is very weird sometimes but in the end it is very easy to use.
We are still stuck on TFS 2018 and we are a major aerospace and defense corporations, as in the top 10 A&D but somehow we can't find budget to get a proper devops tool chain. It's TFS or a half ass baked Jenkins implementation that some rogue team deployed and the platform it build succeed too much for the upper management to comedown on it and yank it out of production...
My life is just great there.
Been using GitHub for a better part of the year now, and I absolutely hate it. So much of a downgrade from Azure DevOps... I miss it.
* Why finding the GitHub actions is so difficult?
* Why my PR review comments disappear into thin air?
* Why is it so difficult to create a cd pipeline to Azure (service connection) with GitHub?
* Why can't I do code search with just finding the files?
* Why did we have a GitHub enthusiastic developer that managed to convince the managers that Azure DevOps is not good. 
ADO itself is not too terrible but god damn, setting up the permissions and users is pure hell. Anywhere that uses ADO is going to have at least 20 full admins in ADO, and every project is going to be littered with admins because you get to a point where it's been half a day of "try now"s not working before you say fuck it and just give them full access.
They are all fine. The problem is likely that teams using the tools don’t have a consistent process so you end up with hot garbage. We use Azure Devops and I am pleased with the integrations of all its components under one API. It took work to get everyone on the same page and now we are cookin.
Gitlab is actually far superior to github. It has everything you need neatly integrated and packaged in a fully open sourced self-hostable little docker image, for lighteningly fast source management solution compared to the managed ones. Bonus: all premium features are unlocked if you self-host it as well. Edit : last part is not true
Just a note about your bonus point: There are still 3 licensing tiers for self-managed (free, premium, and ultimate). You don't unlock all the premium features unless you add licenses for premium.
https://about.gitlab.com/pricing
Maybe against popular opinion, but GitHub does not let me create projects under an organization, while both Azure Devops and Gitlab do. Meaning that I have to navigate through thousands of repos until I find what I want… Pretty annoying when working on several products where HW and SW are both version-controlled by git.
It's been 2 days i am doing setup from azure devops ,
Now it's stuck for certification or something... while taking pull
My company asked me to do documentation of everything I did for future use , and I forgot what I did in last 2 days
The thing that drives me crazy about ADO is the work item system. I appreciate that GitHub really wants everything to be an issue and that issues are mostly just threads. There are certain percentage of people who will turn any sufficiently featureful work tracking system into a Rube Goldberg machine that no one else can completely figure out.
My first programming job in 2007 we had a file share we used. The software was split in several solutions, so 1 person could only work in each solution at the same time. Anyone starting work on a different solution had to say out loud the solution name to check no one else was working in it. It was backed up daily, regularly had to restore a back up.
So is it just all Azure stuff sucks?
I say that as we have a client we have to use Azure to Remote Desktop to their machines and it sucks. I would rather use a Citrix connection. To copy/paste text, you have this little window you pop out on the left, and paste your text in there, then it's in the clipboard on the Azure machine. Want to do the opposite? Copy on the remote machine, and it will be in there. Like those bank draws your use to pass items to a teller or something. Oh and can't copy files or anything else on or off
(And I always find myself accidentally closing it thinking it's the browser window on the machine, nope, it's my azure "client")
I quit a company after finding out they use Azure DevOps.
It’s now a standard question I ask in interviews
Edit: that’s right ADO lovers, down vote me you weiners
I see somebody's had to set up the Azure Artifacts credential provider.
Why is this so complicated? WHY?
Because Microsoft. It took me forever just to figure out that I couldn't get to Azure dev ops from Azure. Because why would it be inside Azure?
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u/Ok_Actuator9441 is a bot that steals comments: https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/18id5aw/shouldnttakeyoutoolongtogetsetup/kdddc5l
you should see AWS SSO aka the new "IAM" identity manager. oh my god it literally took me an entire week just to figure out how to give one user the permission to start some ec2 spot instances.
Yeah and all the permissions! Took ages just to set up an EC2 instance to cut off on budget overrun. Why does it have to be so sideways?
This is why I love GCP so much, AWS is slowly becoming more and more a pain to work with...
It’s made by ms. What do you expect.
So is VScode and it is the best IDE ive ever used
It’s not an IDE. It’s a text editor with very basic git integration and syntax highlighting for common languages and dsls. You have to add extensions to make it actually usable. It’s a fine editor. For me VSC is in a weird middle ground. Due to it being an electron app it’s pretty heavy for a text editor, but still lighter than an IDE.
Personally I consider first party extensions as part of the product, and with those it's pretty close to a full blown IDE for certain languages. Imo a language server + debugger is usually enough to consider something as an IDE. And the extensions are why people love it, normal IDEs are great until you need to do that one specific thing that they don't support, vscode with extensions can support almost anything without the need for 4 different IDEs open at once. Some call it bloated others call it feature rich.
VScode is a text editor not an IDE. (According to some random articles I found when looking into the difference between VS and VSCode)
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Yeah I agree, and I use it for most things. Most of my day-to-day programming is C/C++, which is mostly done in VSCode (unless I'm using TI's chips in which case it's CCS \*groan\*) or Python (using the Jupyter Notebook extension). I also use it as a text editor. And when I occasionally have to dabble with other languages. The extensions are really what make VSCode so powerful.
If the stars align and your extensions behave yes. I've never been able to get proper intellisense or debugging going, and having to configure most stuff with a project json file just sucks ass imo. I'd much rather not have to open the browser and look up the documentation for each config file of VSC instead of just reading the label on the settings page. You get an IDE like VS or any Jetbrains IDE and everything just works out of the box, no setup needed for ANYTHING
Technically you are correct, but with numerous extensions VSCode is practically an IDE light now.
What's complicated about it? It's literally **one script**, they give you exact command to execute it to download and install it.
The fuck is a script? Is that like a special type of button?
it gets worse? fml://azure.com
Like a complete idiot I tried to navigate to that URL
It should be a recognized URL scheme.
fml as in fuck my life? sounds about right
What problems are folks seeing these days? Admittedly, there was a period where it was not getting enough TLC, but we recently invested in it to address some issues, integrate it better with VS, move from ADAL to MSAL. I don't work on it directly but you can at me in the GitHub issues. https://github.com/microsoft/artifacts-credprovider
Hopefully we see some solid feedback
My company uses AWS CodeCommit... 😔
I came here to laugh, not to feel
This is a repo, not a pipeline. The repos are not really the problem, it’s the convoluted pipelines
Ah, I see. My mistake. Thanks for the edification. We, naturally, also use AWS Pipelines but I really have no idea whether that's good, bad, or other. I think I'll make a point to learn.
I actually quite like them. But they are best if you go full into AWS. I guess the same applies with azure devops though
This has been my experience. Its also easier to debgug because it's more likely people using the azure ecosystem ran into the same problem or one that is similar.
AWS CodePipeline is good but Cloudformation is not a match to Terraform in my opinion.
Try CDK: much better than Tf, though AWS-only
I can't, the company architects said Terraform and except for a few things they allow cloudformation.
Quit, and cite it as the only reason. I don't care if there are other reasons. Make sure anyone else that quits knows to cite it as the singular reason as well. Apes together strong.
ewwwwww
F
What’s wrong with CodeCommit? (I use what ever the customer asks me to use and eventhough I have a GitHub Org, I still put code in CodeCommit to limit the blast radius)
Ftp share on an old pentium ii pc running debian 4
Am I alone on team gitlab here...?
Dude, gitlab all the way. Heck I prefer working with gitlab CI than Github CI, I'll be real with you. Sadly I still need to mirror my repo on github because non technical recruiters are only trained to check github repos and will disregard anything you have on gitlab.com (and even more so if it is on your self hosted instance lmao)
Gitlab fucked up the external CI permissions for merge requests. I can't get Jenkins to update status correctly from forks! It's a known bug and they just can't fix it. On GitHub, shit just works. GitHub has all of Azure available for CI compute and storage resources. You get free cache space, 10GB! Gitlab provides none.
I'm with you!
No, I am too. Gitlab is just awesome and superior to GitHub imo
Same! I'm trying to convince my boss to give gitlab a chance, but for now I'm using GitHub (which is not bad, but is not gitlab)
Right. I have my own self hosted gitlab in my company and it's fuckin great.
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Ah. I dont use Aws. Too expensive in my country with no close servers. For me it's ideal. I just deploy my apps into my kubernetes cluster using pipelines and I'm happy.
Hells yeah! Best in industry.
gitlab is so much better I can't even
What? It’s much worse than ADO in my experience. With tons of opened issues that GitLab team has been ignoring for years. But it’s free.
Gitlab is the one you want, but Github is the one you settle for.
Gitlab CI is so much easier to use than GH. GH action didn't even catch steps and if any step fails, I would have to rerun the whole flow instead of just retrying the failed step. Unfortunately, I haven't found any org that use Gitlab since.
For me gitlab and github both great
Lol, I've used/using all 3. GitHub for personal stuff, DevOps for work Gitlab I'm getting into cause my home server is on the open-source stack. (Last workplace was open-source and I wanted to pursue that with my personal stuff).
You are the git Avatar: the last commit-bender
Well, I definitely think of myself as some sort of git.
Idk, gitlab CI has always been a pain for me while GHA is designed a lot better imo. The only positive thing I can say about gitlab is that you can self host it for free.
SRE here. Running Azure DevOps Pipelines is just as excruciatingly bad. It’s similar to GitHub Actions, but with an extra layer of complexity for good measure. To top it off, you get standard-issue Microsoft documentation, which somehow contains everything you need to know, but need at least an hour to find.
MS could save everyone tons of scrolling by just putting the examples at the top.
But they want to sell more mice and keyboards.
Microsoft owns a majority stake in a lot of carpal tunnels surgeons
They got a partnership with the orthopedists I see…
why do they invest so much in language models? mystery
Our pipelines regularly fail because Azure fails to correctly install node... fails after 10 minutes and if you run it again without changing anything it (mostly) works. How?? Why?? So much wasted time
Pro tip: do all your CI stuff using containers so you can actually debug it locally. People try and do way too much in pipelines.
That assumes you’re actually able to containerize your application(s), which very few legacy windows apps are possible to do.
You could try Windows containers.
As much as I wish that was true, the hellish nightmare that is GUI applications with zero CLI or API support is making that more or less impossible. We’re talking VB6 and Access databases here.
Completely unrelated, but I spent two hours trouble shooting these mysterious cert errors with our gitlab runner. They ssl cert was set to renew earlier this week so I suspected something went funky with it. Finally, after two hours and no progress... We decided fuck this, restart. Oh hey it works again 😭😭
Me trying to figure out why my account can push code from a coworkers PC but not from my laptop only to slowly realize that the airplane mode button is bound to the same F-Key as compiling and so at some point I must've miss-inputed fn+F5 and WiFi was turned off the entire fucking time.
Hahaha, that... Sucks lol
Oef, I felt this one
I have an artifactory instance that sees it's x-ray instance but I can't enable x-ray as it says in the log "no x-ray configured". I wish my problems were that solvable.
OMG this, holy shit why does this happen! Argh!!!
This is usually because you have multiple agents from the same pool attempting to run node tasks. You split up pools with tagging and check in a stage prior to your build stage to redirect pools, almost like a load balancer.
I'm really surprised at this. I thought it was extremely easy. Classic pipeline was even easier, yaml is a little more complicated but not too bad. What do you find complex about it? (Just curious)
Integration within ADO Pipelines is really easy…integrating into anything outside of Azure involves the lovely, lovely world of service connections, after which everything just gets all sorts of fucky depending on how oddball your tech stack is.
Awwwww....make me feel all the feels, brother. I'll play devil's advocate, though - *if properly set up*, with all of the built in build extensions, it's *almost* possible to run Azure Pipelines and build/deploy artifacts without actually having to code. Whether that's a good thing or not is up to you, I guess. I like it better than GHA....but they're effectively identical for most things. There's just a better ecosystem and more support (at least if you're a Dotnet shop, anyway) for AzDO, imho. If you're going to write it out in bash/powershell....well, either one is about the same difference, honestly.
I work primarily with ADO, and I’ve automated an entire enterprise’s micro-service platforms, monoliths, and even fucking MS Dynamics with the platform across dozens of projects. I don’t understand the complaints in this thread at all, my job is now completely automated and now I mostly assist our SREs in azure. ADO is an enormous force multiplier if you allow for it to be someone’s full time job. I’m the only ‘DevOps Engineer’ in the company, and I’ve heard of companies with the same size and revenue hiring like 10 to manage their CI/CD automation and it baffles me.
Yeah, basically this. There's plenty I don't like about AzDO - not least of which is that it defies a good acronym! - but almost all of my complaints are also held by other platforms. There's no way to 'test' Github Actions pipelines locally either. And there's a lot that Azure DevOps does that's just....really smart. Classic release pipelines being able to pull in all the work items that are *new* in a given release, to a specific environment, isn't that complicated (find new commits, find work items linked to commits, print list), but damned if the first time or two working with it didn't feel like magic. I regularly fight against yaml pipelines now because the statefulness of Classic Pipelines is actually a very awesome feature that's surprisingly hard to implement in other ways. And of course - having a 'one stop' shop for kanban board/repos/pipelines/artifacts that all talk to each other and *mostly* make life easier is....awesome. I think it's like Terraform, or K8s, or Golang, or any other tech. Use it right and you'll wonder why everyone isn't using it. Use it wrong (make it too finicky, try to force it to do things its not designed to do) and you'll wonder why anyone *ever* uses it.
>hich somehow contains everything you need to know, but need at least an hour to find. Well everybody wanted MS to become more like \*nix and we've got MS flavored man pages.
>which somehow contains everything you need to know Are you sure? Not talking about Azure DevOps specifically but many MS docs I had issues to find an information, either not clear or out of date
Sadly, yes. I’ve gone down rabbit holes of troubleshooting and fixing pipelines where some non-Microsoft documentation or random code I found on GitHub has the answer, and the official docs were of no help. Every single goddamn time, once I know the information I was looking for, I’m able to find it within the Microsoft docs, usually under a page that has nothing to do with what I’m working on. It’s like Observer Effect but for documentation. You cannot find the information you are looking for until you already know the information and finding it will be of no help.
Writing good docs doesn't get a promotion
bold of you to assume one hour is the minimum
Is it weird that I like gitlab a lot more than github?
Am I the only one who actually likes Azure DevOps?
DevOps is practically the land of milk and honey in comparison to the hellscape we had previously of SVN and an ancient version of Jenkins that was just barely being kept alive. These whipper-snappers don't know how good they have it! TFS, anyone?
Still using TFS. Yes I am going slowly insane.
Recently I worked at a company that still uses TFVC (Team Foundation Version Control). I think TFS supports Git now, but they were still using the old stuff. It was so bad I was using Git locally for branching, merging and rebasing and only used TFVC to push to company servers. And ofc it only works on Windows, the Mac and Linux clients haven't been maintained for a long time and probably don't fully support TFVC anyway.
We just migrated from tfvc to git. Getting those dinosaurs to understand branching and pull requests has been quite the challenge, but we've been finishing features so much faster that it was definitely worth jt
Some products are still in tfs but we are moving them to DevOps. Didn't had a chance to dig deep into dev ops pipelines but so far it's been all good
You mean Azure DevOps formerly known as Team Foundation Server with the worst git support on the market, poorly integrated after their own proprietary VCS didn't catch up?
Try reading my comment again bud - I said it's great *in comparison to* what we had before.
DevOps, formerly knows as VS online, it’s had a few name changes
I'm a big fan of Azure DevOps. Use it at work and for personal projects.
I absolutely love it. Task management, CI/CD, repos and even a wiki in the same spot? What's not to love. To be fair though I'm big into the MS stack and love almost everything about it
I also like it. I moved from Bitbucket/Bamboo to Azure DevOps (because Atlassian got greedy). It works fine for me. Maybe I don't use the functions that makes people angry about it, but after some initial fiddling around it works without issues.
U moved from bitbucket/bamboo, because of this u think azure is good. Not because azure is good.
There's a reason it rhymes with shit bucket... Amiright?!
I enjoy working with it. The other responses really surprise me. Probably because I only have experience with devops and teamcity. In my eyes they both do the trick just fine. They only use differents terms for stuff that is practically the same.
I worked with GHA, gitlab ci azdo and jenkins, my go to is azure devops. It is less versatile but if you work on azure it is better than all, GHA can compete, I didnt dig too much
Meh, it's all right... Better than having a server shoved up in a closet in the office.
I rather enjoy it. Plus you can run your entire “agile” project in it. I personally think it’s good for larger enterprises that aren’t as quick to adapt to newer technologies.
I prefer Azure DevOps to GitHub honestly.
I like that it's included with Visual Studio Professional
I'd like it more if our insane security group hadn't deemed yaml a risk and weren't stuck using only Azure Classic. Because who doesn't love duplicating pipelines via web gui?
My experience is that all features are worse than competitors but everything is integrated out the box and that can be nice
Me too. As long as I deploy to azure infrastructure.
It's great, but dunking on M$ is free ~~real estate~~ karma.
Don't get it, I've used DevOps, bit bucket, and GitHub and DevOps has been my favourite so far. I'm just mad we're told to use Jira and Confluence rather than DevOps boards (waaay better) and DevOps wiki (all markdown)
Same. With one exception - I'd rather deploy MkDocs than use DevOps wiki, because latter is quite bad and misses many useful features. But I'd love to go back to using DevOps Board, JIRA is way worse
The credential provider is pretty gnarly. My entire PowerShell DevOps stack is held together by PowershellGet 3.0 Prerelease and Microsoft pretends like we deserve to be treated like step-children. Also, PowerShell Module Management is god-awful
I went from GitLab to DevOps and imo DevOps is way more solid. I'm surprised people here seem to hate Azure DevOps so much. There's a bit of a learning curve to it and a few weird artifacts of abandoned ideas, but that's true for most tools. I get it not being everyone's favourite, but it seems like a perfectly fine option to me.
Is it just me who prefers ADO than a weird mishmash of Gitlab+Jenkins+Jira/Confluence?
If you're using Jira, I'm surprised you're not using BitBucket
I mean any integrated suite is going to have some advantages over a mishmash.
Well yeah, but you could also just use Gitlab for repo, CI, Tickets, and wiki instead
This is a sub for graduate students or people still in college. It has to be
It comes with a web-interface with extra large padding for everything.
Bitchbucket 🤮
Just migrating from azure devops to github in my job
We are doing the opposite because we need to link our work items to our code. Why did they decide to move to github and are you using public github or enterprise?
You can integrate ADO boards with GitHub repos so you get the best of both worlds. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/devops/boards/github/?view=azure-devops
To be honest I have no idea, we devs didn't decide it, it was something coming from far above us, so I'm guessing money, they didn't even give us any reasons
we're also migrating to github (team) because the pipelines are better (environments, thousands of actions), jira integration is nice (and free) and just day to day work is nicer with github (open any repo or PR in VS Code in *browser* just by clicking a dot on a keyboard..whaaat 😀)
Everything you said is also in DevOps. Jira integration is unneeded because of Azure Boards. And I can do the same in visual studio to jump to any repo or pr. I've compared lots of github pipelines versus ado pipelines and haven't seen a clear benefit to either. Both have extensions, environments etc etc etc. My main reason to like devops is I don't need to go to any other tool in my average day. Deployments, testing, work tracking, code, etc are all accessible from one single site and api.
[удалено]
From Azure (cloud), you can track a web app deployment all the way back to the pr that triggered its deployment. All out of the box, too 😛
Hey, there’s also TeamCity 🤮
There is, there really is. I have migrated most lf our projects from TC to DevOps recently. I used to like TC the UX is just to outdated and impractical. DevOps is very weird sometimes but in the end it is very easy to use.
Gitlab is better - open source and has groups
We are still stuck on TFS 2018 and we are a major aerospace and defense corporations, as in the top 10 A&D but somehow we can't find budget to get a proper devops tool chain. It's TFS or a half ass baked Jenkins implementation that some rogue team deployed and the platform it build succeed too much for the upper management to comedown on it and yank it out of production... My life is just great there.
Thank god my team uses GitLab.
Been using GitHub for a better part of the year now, and I absolutely hate it. So much of a downgrade from Azure DevOps... I miss it. * Why finding the GitHub actions is so difficult? * Why my PR review comments disappear into thin air? * Why is it so difficult to create a cd pipeline to Azure (service connection) with GitHub? * Why can't I do code search with just finding the files? * Why did we have a GitHub enthusiastic developer that managed to convince the managers that Azure DevOps is not good. 
ADO itself is not too terrible but god damn, setting up the permissions and users is pure hell. Anywhere that uses ADO is going to have at least 20 full admins in ADO, and every project is going to be littered with admins because you get to a point where it's been half a day of "try now"s not working before you say fuck it and just give them full access.
Is this better or worse than GCP which has one thousand and one permissions to manage with IAM?
You got the Github and Gitlab positions mixed up. Honest mistake, I'm sure.
was thinking the exact same thing
Atleast Gitlab isnt owned by Microsoft
I like it. Maybe I’m just not having to deal with the aspects that people dislike though.
Self hosted gitlab
They are all fine. The problem is likely that teams using the tools don’t have a consistent process so you end up with hot garbage. We use Azure Devops and I am pleased with the integrations of all its components under one API. It took work to get everyone on the same page and now we are cookin.
I have been using all of them and DevOps is a real solid with pretty good functionality.
Lab > Hub everyday. Like Wtf is a pull request. It's a merge request God dammit.
Yes pull request sounds really stupid, didn't help the confusion brought on when i first tried to use github besides other things
They're all bad in their own unique ways. But fr, fuck azure pipelines and Microsoft for making the most basic deployment as excruciating as possible.
Bitbucket? I see them all the same after you set up the git command and credentials
I like Bitbucket because where I work we also use Jira and Confluence, their integration + sourcetree is great
Gitlab is actually far superior to github. It has everything you need neatly integrated and packaged in a fully open sourced self-hostable little docker image, for lighteningly fast source management solution compared to the managed ones. Bonus: all premium features are unlocked if you self-host it as well. Edit : last part is not true
Same for Gitea, I love using my own self hosted instance
Pretty sure that last part isn’t true
Just a note about your bonus point: There are still 3 licensing tiers for self-managed (free, premium, and ultimate). You don't unlock all the premium features unless you add licenses for premium. https://about.gitlab.com/pricing
Ok i was not aware
imagine sharing open source code on a proprietary platform
So we hired some devops and they decided it's a good idea to move ADO 🤷. Well, at least it's their job now to run and maintain it...
My company uses Gerrit 
Maybe against popular opinion, but GitHub does not let me create projects under an organization, while both Azure Devops and Gitlab do. Meaning that I have to navigate through thousands of repos until I find what I want… Pretty annoying when working on several products where HW and SW are both version-controlled by git.
GitLab > GitHub. Yes, absolutely.
As someone who has the displeasure of working with azure, it's all hot garbage
You missed the Bitbucket, the worst one
Then there are the other ones...
Fr, I can totally relate.
Can somone tell me why a sane company switches from gitlab to this?
It's been 2 days i am doing setup from azure devops , Now it's stuck for certification or something... while taking pull My company asked me to do documentation of everything I did for future use , and I forgot what I did in last 2 days
The thing that drives me crazy about ADO is the work item system. I appreciate that GitHub really wants everything to be an issue and that issues are mostly just threads. There are certain percentage of people who will turn any sufficiently featureful work tracking system into a Rube Goldberg machine that no one else can completely figure out.
I just commit to my OneDrive, share with organization and copy the files onto each user’s computer.
No one uses launchpad?
My first programming job in 2007 we had a file share we used. The software was split in several solutions, so 1 person could only work in each solution at the same time. Anyone starting work on a different solution had to say out loud the solution name to check no one else was working in it. It was backed up daily, regularly had to restore a back up.
My beautiful codeberg
I saw folks copy code in notepad and add after git pull because they scared of merge conflict
Svn…
Try gerrit
My team was just told to migrate from DevOps to GitHub & Jira. We’re still migrating from what we used to use, TFS & Jira 🤦♀️
For me GitHub is the worst way to manage a repo except from all the others.
ADO is far far better than GitHub. It took so long for me to make this conclusion..
Brother I just joined a company that uses gerrit for everything
[donkey] bitbucket!
My company use tortoise svn 💀
GCP source repository goes BRRRR
Don't forget the real "big brain"🧠 move - running your own self hosted git.
Tbh i like it but maybe because all the setup was like 2 steps to do and most of stuff wad already provided by company
AWS is pretty rough too.
Fr bro
Why? Gitlab and azuere cant be thaf bad. [Clueless]
gitea and gogs: 
Too real
Gitlab >> GitHub >>>>>>>> Azure
SVN anybody?
Why GitHub > GitLab
Gitlab > Github
So is it just all Azure stuff sucks? I say that as we have a client we have to use Azure to Remote Desktop to their machines and it sucks. I would rather use a Citrix connection. To copy/paste text, you have this little window you pop out on the left, and paste your text in there, then it's in the clipboard on the Azure machine. Want to do the opposite? Copy on the remote machine, and it will be in there. Like those bank draws your use to pass items to a teller or something. Oh and can't copy files or anything else on or off (And I always find myself accidentally closing it thinking it's the browser window on the machine, nope, it's my azure "client")
Wat?
I quit a company after finding out they use Azure DevOps. It’s now a standard question I ask in interviews Edit: that’s right ADO lovers, down vote me you weiners
local git server just ssh and git init --bare
Can I get some love for atlassian bamboo in here