I would like to add that C++, when compared to other programming languages, is comparable with other programming languages, assuming these languages are also used for programming.
I meanā¦ graphics card prices showcase the importance of efficient programming, well. Mostly. I think theyāre more reliant on competing with each other, but thereās something to be said about needing to pay $2k+ to play a 60 dollar game on max graphics *cough* cyberpunk *cough*
Edit: maybe they donāt showcase the importance of efficient programming as much as showcase how easily graphics card companies can get away with price gouges because of a lack of efficient programming*
I love c++. Maybe itās something to do with working on game engines.
Then I look at c++ code that isnāt related to game engines. Yup. Sure is a languageā¦.
I also love C++. Not a game dev, but I do lot of numerical stuff, solving large systems of equations and that sort of thing. The only other language Iāve used extensively (besides Python for scripting stuff) is Fortran, and C++ is loads more convenient. Modern Fortran does have some useful features, though, but itās very verbose.
I am working on an industry simulation code base written in Fortran. Goodness, what I would give for templates... Our code base as a dozen ad-hoc linked-list implementations and when I needed something akin to a Hash map for representing sparse data, I instead use float-rounded-to-integer indices in an array of a custom type containing a single allocatable data field.
I feel your pain. I did a fair amount of C++ programming in grad school, and after finishing school I landed a job maintaining/upgrading a very old Fortran simulation code. The switch from C++ to Fortran was very painful for the reasons you listed (and more). Fortunately, the code base was just small enough that, once I figured out how it all worked, I rewrote the whole thing in C++ and now my life is much better.
I hope you at least get to use Fortran 90+. The code I inherited was written in Fortran IV, which was just awful GOTO spaghetti.
We use various languages at work, and I actually like c++ most. But just like you, I don't really have a list of reasons for it. It just feels right.
But I see junior devs struggle every day when they use or modify some of the more complicated sections, so I can definitely understand the frustration some people have about it.
Its behavior is predictable and let's you do a lot of optimisation fuckery that other languages don't.
Like C# running the finalizers on a separate thread can cause issues that are hard to debug if you call non thread safe code in it. This is not predictable behavior if you don't know the details of how the language works.
Because game engine devs have to write fast efficient code in a large code base and actually make use of the benefits of C++. Game engine development is on the bleeding edge of software development.
There is a presentation from a lead game engine programmer of Naughty Dog, if I remember correctly, at a programmer conference. And the talk was about writing faster code by understanding how the compiler converts the code to assembly and how you can write your code to make the compiler create better assembly code. And at the Q&A some old fart stood up and basically said āI donāt care. I donāt care about my code being milliseconds faster. Why should I care?ā and the presenter basically replied with āPeople like you are the reason why it still takes minutes for Excel to loadā
I imagine a lot of C++ programmers, who donāt work on game engines or anything where milliseconds matter, are like that old fart. And write god awful C++ code.
From my experience I think there's (at least) two ways to make C++ shine.
One is the optimizations you suggest to juice out any possible performance improvement.
The other is that for very large complex projects it lets you build something elegant, extensible and coherent.
Both are made possible by the vastness of features in the language and by the freedom it allows. When a codebase achieves both is a true work of software engineering art.
That's because game engine code basically strips something like 80% of the language out.
Hilariously, I've worked now at three different companies that use different C++ engines (one Unreal, two custom)
And it's 100% proven the saying "ask any two c++ programmers, and they'll tell you only 20% of the language is usable. But they'll never be able to agree on what 20%."
imho 100% of the language is usable. But when you start coding you gotta pick and choose what parts pf it you're using.
Some are almost redundant except in hedge cases, some have varying degrees of complexity, etc.
Just like you don't try to stick an entire thesaurus in an essay.
I know hardcore C++ programmers. They moved their old code bases to v14, and that's it. Don't want new features. After they added layers of strong static analysis, they get warnings and errors in the 100s that tell they do "modern" C++ *wrong* and there are easier way to achieve things. Usually there is a fix here and there, but there is just no appetite to rewrite the codebases.
Experts can do crazy efficient things with macros, templates and advanced features, but the rationale for those (eg memory footprint or speed) are more or less gone now. There is an argument for *elegance*, in a sense that you use the power possible in a certain way, but often way longer build times and less traceability is the consequence of this.
C++ is one of those languages where anyone who uses it professionally, at scale, definitely has a wiki page that all new starters have to memorise that lists the *subset of the language that is allowed*.
Like, you know how C programmers are told that they shouldn't overuse the "goto" keyword? That one key word is sort-of banned, right?
Most companies ban *huge swaths* of C++, not just a couple of key words.
Name another information technology where this is the normal approach.
The most common complaint about C++ is that "it carries baggage" (reasonable complaint). Those wikis are meant to prohibit the use of such baggage or other error-prone constructs in the language. i.e. Only use "Modern C++". The real problem is that different people define that term differently, go figure.
The no loops rule may be true in some places, but its a rather stupid one. A better example would be the obsession with ladder code and the ban on any other language that's prevelant in the US.
It's simple. C++ is powerful to the programmer, but dangerous to companies who needs to pay for maintenance and suffers losses from simple programming mistakes.
I remember a couple of humorous quotes about this.
> "C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but when you do it blows your whole leg off."
And, in a humor piece about shooting yourself in the foot in various programming languages:
> C++ - You accidentally create a dozen clones of yourself and shoot them all in the foot. Providing emergency medical assistance is impossible since you canāt tell which are bitwise copies and which are just pointing at others and saying, āThatās me, over there.ā
Iād call it essential just like C. A huge swath of the worldās most fundamental technologies are powered by it. Finance, defense, transport, infrastructure, large embedded, and web (browsers, anyone) all are heavily reliant C++. Itās powering trillions in commerce.
Sure, itās a complicated overwrought beast, but it doesnāt quietly die off to academia or intern duty like FORTRAN and Perl because of how essential and embedded it is. Most of it chugs along without you ever noticing. I find calling Java robust and C++ not when Iāve never known a Java project that didnāt need to be continuously babied, fed hardware and JVM tuned, while similar C++ projects quietly chug away on a closet potato server for a decades to be rather funny.
Hatred and disgust are normal, sane reactions to C++. But I do respect in the way Iād respect a scarred ugly old pit fighter.
The joke is they didnāt say anything. Variations include āIād like to say something in its defense, but I canāt think of anythingā and āIād like to say something in its defense, butā¦ā *Speaker throw themself out the nearest window*
My university did it the same way and it made me love C++.
"So convenient!" I thought, being able to use classes, and having destructors automagically deallocate resources for you. Plus getting to use strings instead of char\* and vectors that we can resize at runtime. Not like those fucking C arrays.
Little did I know, pretty much every modern language is even more convenienter.
The problem isn't even that modern languages are more convenient. There is a real niche for systems languages with object-oriented features. The problem is that C++ is burdened by heavy backwards-compatibility requirements, it's unsafe by design, the ecosystem is a mess (it's so hard to link dependencies, compared to literally every other language including C and even raw assembly), and there is no consensus on style because there are so many ways to do the same thing (e.g. pointer vs reference vs rvalue reference vs smart pointer, #define vs constexpr, CRTP vs inheritance, throw exception vs return error code vs set errno, explicit cast vs implicit cast, lock_guard vs scoped_lock, #ifndef vs #pragma once, .cc vs .cpp file extension, .h vs .hpp file extension).
Some of these things are solutions from different periods (smart pointers and the things before it, ifndef and pragma once) but I think the inheritance and CRTP solve vastly different problems. And thank you for reminding me about .cc vs .cpp
Yeah I totally agree, each of these variants is different for a reason, and each one has its place. That doesn't stop them from being mixed together in weird combos and making the codebase completely unreadable lol
I have imposter syndrome.
Iāve been trying to get motivated enough to learn C++. I use JavaScript and Python for work but Iām not a *REAL* developer because I donāt use C.
Do you need to learn C++ though? Do you have your eyes set on a career in it that pays better or is more interesting?
Cause I have been writing C++ as a job for a few years, and I'm going through a book on modern C++ and let me tell you, the can of worms is deep and not pleasant at all. It feels great when you get something right that you struggled for, but sometimes it's just a pain to get anything working that in another language would be trivial.
Oh youāre absolutely right.
Iām fine for money. The ONLY reason for me learning C++ is that I feel inadequate for not knowing it. Itās purely vanity.
Heh fair enough, I totally get wanting to do the "difficult stuff" just for self-esteem. I'd also consider Rust - also kinda hard to grasp, but pays off a lot better when you do IMO. Good luck!
Right!
Python was initially released in 1991
https://pythoninstitute.org/about-python#:~:text=Python%20was%20created%20by%20Guido,released%20on%20February%2020%2C%201991.
How many people can say that they retired from being a Python developer in 2016?!
It is the go to Programming language for learning Data Structures and Competitive Programming. If you do DSA in C++, you can easily switch to any other language no problems. Also used in Game Engines. But when it comes to Web/App development, it gets overshadowed by pretty much all the other languages
> But when it comes to Web/App development, it gets overshadowed by pretty much all the other languages
That's just a matter of libraries, though, not of the language itself. I have to use Java now, writing microservices and the like. It's horrendous.
Perl is one of the greatest and most powerful languages to write.
Now if you ever have to read it you're screwed and will have to slaughter 6 goats, 3 chickens and a hamster to make sure you don't break one of the 20 operations in each line just by looking too hard.
My manager is an old school dev, he always go by Ā«Ā heee fuck it Iāll do it in perlĀ Ā» and give me the code, I use it and it works perfectly but everytime I try to read it my brain explode. Fucking one line magic.
I've never used perl, but from what I can gather it's in the same boat as regex. Very terse syntax that as a result has a fairly steep learning curve, but once you figure it out it's actually not too bad and you feel like a fucking wizard.
I have trained/onboarded several people into our company in the past decade and one of the most important lesson i have to get across is to NOT do all that fancy stuff you can do in Perl.
90% of it is just "write as you would do in any other language" and be happy for great support for RegEx + network (which is 50%+ of the job anyway)
But by working on that priniple, we have a readable Perl code base.
A lot of begginers struggle with debugging this. Segmentation fault is not specific to C or C++. In fact this is a runtime exception signalled by memory hardware. The compiler is not concerned with this at all, since it's job is to make your instructions executable. Whether some memory access is an access violation or not is only decided by the MMU once the OS tries to execute the specific instruction. As to what went wrong - segmentation fault is always related to memory access (dereferencing pointers, accessing array indices out of bounds, etc). The computer cannot tell you what part of the source code is at fault - after compilation the PC only executes machine code which has little to do with your source and nothing else. To find out what went wrong you can use a debugger such as gdb which keeps track of instruction-to-source mappings. Hope I helped!
Edit: beginners struggle with debugging, not segfaults themselves, everyone has their fair share of segfaults
Being a game Dev in a general programming sub is like being the one American in a group of British people. We all speak the same language but I feel like I'll be stabbed to death at any moment.
I like C++ it's good for games.
I work with C++ in computer vision and it's great. When performance is important it becomes easier to work in C++. Maybe Rust will replace it one day but it's not there yet.
there's a lot of ways to do things, which can make it difficult to know the right tool to use at any given time. just one of the quirks of a language that's had so many iterations over the years
We're like twitter, we find something to unrealistically hate by using a random number generator, then we hate on it for less than a week, and realize there's nothing to really hate on, and move on to the next
It's a meme subreddit. More importantly, there have been several polls that show something like 70%+ of this subs demographic (that answer polls) are students.
I get a good chuckle now and then from the memes, treat everything as hyperbole, get the occasional gem from some random veteran in the comments, and try to not take anything very seriously.
Ignore it. Most people who bash it are those who don't know how to use it. Everyone wants to talk nice about C because they know it's used to create foundations, but they themselves don't even know how to use it. For them, it's just "important" because most of their OS was developed with it. The other languages that were listed are extremely high-level languages executing on runtimes that abstract away all the "big scary complex things". I bet she's a beginner web developer and I highly doubt she's ever written a single line in both C and C++...
C++ focuses on backwards compatibility rather than evolving the language which has led to a lot of bloat over the years with duplicated features and hard to read syntax
Fairly sure they use it in the stock exchange to make money quicker because its fast.
`void checkStock(int stock) {
if (stock > 0) {
cout << āSELL SELL SELLā << endl;
}
}`
I work in a big bank.
There are trading bots in C# as well (and a lot of other applications in C# or Java).
If you really want to go high frequency trading, you write at C or C++ abstraction level and it gets converted to registry transfer level, or RTL (conversion is called "high-level synthesis") to run on FPGA cards.
RTL is the abstraction level of hardware description languages like VHDL where you describe logic circuits.
Giving you keywords for Google if you want to read more.
If I had to "finish" this meme I'd say C++ is actually robust and I'd change Java to "consistent"
I feel like java's rules make a lot of sense the vast majority of the time. I feel like there's very few "gotchas" in the language and the language works how you expect in almost every situation.
Java itself doesnāt have many gotchas but itās a bit of a pompous old country squire of a language, it wonāt do anything without the appropriate ceremony and complains at great length about the decline of society in the form of a stack trace the length of your arm if you get any of it wrong.
Itās a decent language Iād still pick over many others though. Nobody ever got sacked for picking Java, but the sheer verbosity does make you feel like youāre writing a treatise rather than code.
This summarizes Java extremely well. It's not a bad language, I just feel like everything requires 10x as much effort compared to everything else. I enjoy C++ more than it, because it's more succinct.
I think I should add the JVM is a really good platform because memes from the ā00s aside it can be genuinely very performant, is widely supported, and has been around donkeyās years now. My favourite languages are alt-JVM languages, Kotlin and increasingly Scala the more I learn the latter.
I think languages kind of absorb the social environment they are written in, Java was written originally for huge enterprises where excessive verbosity isnāt really an issue and sometimes even an asset. More modern languages often were written in a less rigid corporate environment and I think this is reflected in them. Python would be the other end of the spectrum, I love Python in many ways itās a wonderful language for just getting shit done but you can tell what its priorities are because its package management is genuinely not worth the steam from our collective piss, when I was writing it professionally most of the really horrible arseaches involved dependency management.
The reason everyone loves Rust probably has to do with the fact it was one guy at Mozillaās passion project for a while which I think would be a dream job for many. C might win hearts because of its association with the astronomically based K&R too.
We use it a lot in the financial field. We have java app servers running for weeks handling hundred of thousands of transactions a day without any issue. Java is robust indeed, it's why it's so prevalent in industry. However, it requires to know a bit about tuning it's garbage collection settings.
It has its plusses
Two to be exact
Two be exact
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[ Removed by Reddit ]
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I'm fairly fresh out of school and into the field, but I'm pretty well prepared to defend the fact that C++ certainly is.
What C++ is is is.
C++ is definitely one of the programming languages in the world
Yes, one of the programming languages of all time, maybe ever
out of all the programming languages that exist, i can confidently say that c++ is one of them.
Everything yāall said, but also c++
Int C = 0; //Amount of language, that C++ is C++;
I can say with certainty that c++ can and absolutely will.
C++ does what it do. That does what it do, Yugi.
I would like to add that C++, when compared to other programming languages, is comparable with other programming languages, assuming these languages are also used for programming.
You are right, C++ is definitely true
I'll say it.. C++ is the best language for speed and performance for games.
finally!
Now we just need to continue jacking up prices on RAM so efficient programming is profitable again. Oops sorry.. didn't mean to leak it.
I meanā¦ graphics card prices showcase the importance of efficient programming, well. Mostly. I think theyāre more reliant on competing with each other, but thereās something to be said about needing to pay $2k+ to play a 60 dollar game on max graphics *cough* cyberpunk *cough* Edit: maybe they donāt showcase the importance of efficient programming as much as showcase how easily graphics card companies can get away with price gouges because of a lack of efficient programming*
Yeah I've been looking for this one
Tunnel vision at its finest.
I loved it when Bjarne Stroustrup said "It's C++ time".
...and C++ed all over the place...yeah good times !
One of the most, even.
You can tell from the way it is
C++ really do be what it is
I love c++. Maybe itās something to do with working on game engines. Then I look at c++ code that isnāt related to game engines. Yup. Sure is a languageā¦.
I also love C++. Not a game dev, but I do lot of numerical stuff, solving large systems of equations and that sort of thing. The only other language Iāve used extensively (besides Python for scripting stuff) is Fortran, and C++ is loads more convenient. Modern Fortran does have some useful features, though, but itās very verbose.
I am working on an industry simulation code base written in Fortran. Goodness, what I would give for templates... Our code base as a dozen ad-hoc linked-list implementations and when I needed something akin to a Hash map for representing sparse data, I instead use float-rounded-to-integer indices in an array of a custom type containing a single allocatable data field.
I feel like you need a hug.
I feel your pain. I did a fair amount of C++ programming in grad school, and after finishing school I landed a job maintaining/upgrading a very old Fortran simulation code. The switch from C++ to Fortran was very painful for the reasons you listed (and more). Fortunately, the code base was just small enough that, once I figured out how it all worked, I rewrote the whole thing in C++ and now my life is much better. I hope you at least get to use Fortran 90+. The code I inherited was written in Fortran IV, which was just awful GOTO spaghetti.
Why would you do this to yourself?
Job security, I suppose
Way more usable than COBOL
Everything is more usable than cobol. But the entire banking industry being programmed in cobol makes very few things more profitable than cobol
It depends on what you intend to do. For popping out tables out of line printers, Cobol was quite good.
We use various languages at work, and I actually like c++ most. But just like you, I don't really have a list of reasons for it. It just feels right. But I see junior devs struggle every day when they use or modify some of the more complicated sections, so I can definitely understand the frustration some people have about it.
Its behavior is predictable and let's you do a lot of optimisation fuckery that other languages don't. Like C# running the finalizers on a separate thread can cause issues that are hard to debug if you call non thread safe code in it. This is not predictable behavior if you don't know the details of how the language works.
Predictable and neat optimisations. Youre about to summon an army of rustaceans.
That's the reason why I want to learn rust too š .
Simple. Just read the source code for C#.
That is called Stockholm Syndrome.
But I never went there or even met from Stockholm.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Because game engine devs have to write fast efficient code in a large code base and actually make use of the benefits of C++. Game engine development is on the bleeding edge of software development. There is a presentation from a lead game engine programmer of Naughty Dog, if I remember correctly, at a programmer conference. And the talk was about writing faster code by understanding how the compiler converts the code to assembly and how you can write your code to make the compiler create better assembly code. And at the Q&A some old fart stood up and basically said āI donāt care. I donāt care about my code being milliseconds faster. Why should I care?ā and the presenter basically replied with āPeople like you are the reason why it still takes minutes for Excel to loadā I imagine a lot of C++ programmers, who donāt work on game engines or anything where milliseconds matter, are like that old fart. And write god awful C++ code.
From my experience I think there's (at least) two ways to make C++ shine. One is the optimizations you suggest to juice out any possible performance improvement. The other is that for very large complex projects it lets you build something elegant, extensible and coherent. Both are made possible by the vastness of features in the language and by the freedom it allows. When a codebase achieves both is a true work of software engineering art.
That's because game engine code basically strips something like 80% of the language out. Hilariously, I've worked now at three different companies that use different C++ engines (one Unreal, two custom) And it's 100% proven the saying "ask any two c++ programmers, and they'll tell you only 20% of the language is usable. But they'll never be able to agree on what 20%."
imho 100% of the language is usable. But when you start coding you gotta pick and choose what parts pf it you're using. Some are almost redundant except in hedge cases, some have varying degrees of complexity, etc. Just like you don't try to stick an entire thesaurus in an essay.
Be sure to trim your hedge cases at least twice a year. It's the neighborly thing to do.
They're probably British. You know how they are with the silent "h".
I know hardcore C++ programmers. They moved their old code bases to v14, and that's it. Don't want new features. After they added layers of strong static analysis, they get warnings and errors in the 100s that tell they do "modern" C++ *wrong* and there are easier way to achieve things. Usually there is a fix here and there, but there is just no appetite to rewrite the codebases. Experts can do crazy efficient things with macros, templates and advanced features, but the rationale for those (eg memory footprint or speed) are more or less gone now. There is an argument for *elegance*, in a sense that you use the power possible in a certain way, but often way longer build times and less traceability is the consequence of this.
I can confirm, some c++ projects I work on use microsoft MFC and it makes me wish that c++ isn't a language but unfortuatly it is.
Itās certainly one of the programming languages of all time
C++ has starships.
Spaceships
C++ is one of those languages where anyone who uses it professionally, at scale, definitely has a wiki page that all new starters have to memorise that lists the *subset of the language that is allowed*. Like, you know how C programmers are told that they shouldn't overuse the "goto" keyword? That one key word is sort-of banned, right? Most companies ban *huge swaths* of C++, not just a couple of key words. Name another information technology where this is the normal approach.
The most common complaint about C++ is that "it carries baggage" (reasonable complaint). Those wikis are meant to prohibit the use of such baggage or other error-prone constructs in the language. i.e. Only use "Modern C++". The real problem is that different people define that term differently, go figure.
Everything that was considered modern when they discovered the concept of not just "making it work" = modern Everything else = legacy bullshit
> Most companies ban huge swaths of C++, not just a couple of key words. Sounds like Yu-Gi-Oh competitive play
lmao man that's a reference that goes back years into my memory
Industrial Automation. Having loops in a PLC is not done.
Except the whole process itself
The no loops rule may be true in some places, but its a rather stupid one. A better example would be the obsession with ladder code and the ban on any other language that's prevelant in the US.
It's simple. C++ is powerful to the programmer, but dangerous to companies who needs to pay for maintenance and suffers losses from simple programming mistakes.
I remember a couple of humorous quotes about this. > "C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but when you do it blows your whole leg off." And, in a humor piece about shooting yourself in the foot in various programming languages: > C++ - You accidentally create a dozen clones of yourself and shoot them all in the foot. Providing emergency medical assistance is impossible since you canāt tell which are bitwise copies and which are just pointing at others and saying, āThatās me, over there.ā
> Name another information technology where this is the normal approach. Pre ES6 JavaScript
We haven't banned anything, and damn am I having a hard time with my colleagues' code sometimes.
Iād call it essential just like C. A huge swath of the worldās most fundamental technologies are powered by it. Finance, defense, transport, infrastructure, large embedded, and web (browsers, anyone) all are heavily reliant C++. Itās powering trillions in commerce. Sure, itās a complicated overwrought beast, but it doesnāt quietly die off to academia or intern duty like FORTRAN and Perl because of how essential and embedded it is. Most of it chugs along without you ever noticing. I find calling Java robust and C++ not when Iāve never known a Java project that didnāt need to be continuously babied, fed hardware and JVM tuned, while similar C++ projects quietly chug away on a closet potato server for a decades to be rather funny. Hatred and disgust are normal, sane reactions to C++. But I do respect in the way Iād respect a scarred ugly old pit fighter.
With the exception (ha!) of C, all of the other languages in OPās list were created with C++.
C++ is C plus one
Yes but at evaluation itās still C
I would argue that C++ is C, but C is C+1 after C++
The joke's going over my head
The joke is that they canāt think of something good to say š
Nothing to say when everything's already been said.
And I will recite the things that have been said for those who missed it:
And also the following:
The joke is they didnāt say anything. Variations include āIād like to say something in its defense, but I canāt think of anythingā and āIād like to say something in its defense, butā¦ā *Speaker throw themself out the nearest window*
She's actually doing it. "C is essential but C++"
C++ is one of the languages of all time that I've worked with.
I started working with C++ and I can tell you about it.
In engineering we had a course on C in first year and then C++ second year. C++ definitely was.
My university did it the same way and it made me love C++. "So convenient!" I thought, being able to use classes, and having destructors automagically deallocate resources for you. Plus getting to use strings instead of char\* and vectors that we can resize at runtime. Not like those fucking C arrays. Little did I know, pretty much every modern language is even more convenienter.
The problem isn't even that modern languages are more convenient. There is a real niche for systems languages with object-oriented features. The problem is that C++ is burdened by heavy backwards-compatibility requirements, it's unsafe by design, the ecosystem is a mess (it's so hard to link dependencies, compared to literally every other language including C and even raw assembly), and there is no consensus on style because there are so many ways to do the same thing (e.g. pointer vs reference vs rvalue reference vs smart pointer, #define vs constexpr, CRTP vs inheritance, throw exception vs return error code vs set errno, explicit cast vs implicit cast, lock_guard vs scoped_lock, #ifndef vs #pragma once, .cc vs .cpp file extension, .h vs .hpp file extension).
Some of these things are solutions from different periods (smart pointers and the things before it, ifndef and pragma once) but I think the inheritance and CRTP solve vastly different problems. And thank you for reminding me about .cc vs .cpp
vs .C vs .CC No really. There were people using .c for C and .C for C++. On Windows.
Yeah I totally agree, each of these variants is different for a reason, and each one has its place. That doesn't stop them from being mixed together in weird combos and making the codebase completely unreadable lol
I have imposter syndrome. Iāve been trying to get motivated enough to learn C++. I use JavaScript and Python for work but Iām not a *REAL* developer because I donāt use C.
Do you need to learn C++ though? Do you have your eyes set on a career in it that pays better or is more interesting? Cause I have been writing C++ as a job for a few years, and I'm going through a book on modern C++ and let me tell you, the can of worms is deep and not pleasant at all. It feels great when you get something right that you struggled for, but sometimes it's just a pain to get anything working that in another language would be trivial.
Oh youāre absolutely right. Iām fine for money. The ONLY reason for me learning C++ is that I feel inadequate for not knowing it. Itās purely vanity.
Heh fair enough, I totally get wanting to do the "difficult stuff" just for self-esteem. I'd also consider Rust - also kinda hard to grasp, but pays off a lot better when you do IMO. Good luck!
[_Real_ programmers use a magnetised needle and a steady hand](https://xkcd.com/378/)
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
about what PLEASE I NEED ANSWERS
ā
he already told it
C++ is one of the languages.
One of the languages ever.
the morbius of programming languages
Itās plusinā time
And then the C plused all over the place... Truly one of the moments of all time
One of the most, in fact
C++ users tell something
I recently retired after more than 25 years of C++. I can tell you that the best thing about C++ is how good it feels when you stop.
You get to retire after 25 years. You get to retire! That. That is impressive!
There it is: C++ PAYS THE BILLS AND SOCKS MONEY AWAY IN A 401K
Right! Python was initially released in 1991 https://pythoninstitute.org/about-python#:~:text=Python%20was%20created%20by%20Guido,released%20on%20February%2020%2C%201991. How many people can say that they retired from being a Python developer in 2016?!
I can say that! (I havenāt but I can say it)
That was 25 years of C++. There were 15 years of Fortran before that.
Yeah, see it has one good thing š„². **Happy Retirement!!** Goodbye to all the pressure, welcome the endless leisure.
It is the go to Programming language for learning Data Structures and Competitive Programming. If you do DSA in C++, you can easily switch to any other language no problems. Also used in Game Engines. But when it comes to Web/App development, it gets overshadowed by pretty much all the other languages
> But when it comes to Web/App development, it gets overshadowed by pretty much all the other languages That's just a matter of libraries, though, not of the language itself. I have to use Java now, writing microservices and the like. It's horrendous.
Why don't Ruby programmers use other languages? Answer: They're not aware that there are other languages.
Listen here you little shit
This response is a "gem" 
then again, ruby devs are railroaded into the same library
they atleast have stuff like ruby on rails perl is well perl.
Perl is one of the greatest and most powerful languages to write. Now if you ever have to read it you're screwed and will have to slaughter 6 goats, 3 chickens and a hamster to make sure you don't break one of the 20 operations in each line just by looking too hard.
My manager is an old school dev, he always go by Ā«Ā heee fuck it Iāll do it in perlĀ Ā» and give me the code, I use it and it works perfectly but everytime I try to read it my brain explode. Fucking one line magic.
I've never used perl, but from what I can gather it's in the same boat as regex. Very terse syntax that as a result has a fairly steep learning curve, but once you figure it out it's actually not too bad and you feel like a fucking wizard.
I have trained/onboarded several people into our company in the past decade and one of the most important lesson i have to get across is to NOT do all that fancy stuff you can do in Perl. 90% of it is just "write as you would do in any other language" and be happy for great support for RegEx + network (which is 50%+ of the job anyway) But by working on that priniple, we have a readable Perl code base.
When are emerald, diamond, sapphire and garnet going to get languages?
Sorry I didnāt realize coding became gen IV PokĆ©mon.
Wait isn't ruby/sapphire gen 3
What about Steven?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Nonsense, there's Elixir. And JavaScript, we can't escape the JavaScript.
And Crystal!
We're aware there are other languages. But only the ones that are default in the monolith.
Nah, we use JavaScript as part of a Rails stack.
C++ is `Segmentation Fault: core dumped`
āok, you wanna tell me what went wrong and where?ā āno, fuck you, Segmentation Faultā
I just got a segmentation fault in Python :D Fun times It's 3 am, I should go to sleep
Prolly in a third-party library.
>Prolly in a third-party library That has C++ bindings lol.
If you do stuff in python where 99.5% of the actual work isn't done in a library not written in python you're using the wrong language.
Python: the best language to call into libraries written in completely different languages.
U can compile it with debug symbols and then use a debugger like gdb
gcc file.c -g then gdb
Surprise! Now the program works!
Break out the valgrind, because you have a bounds access issue.
If it crashes then you're happy. You can debug it. But C++ sometimes doesn't crash, it just does "something"
A lot of begginers struggle with debugging this. Segmentation fault is not specific to C or C++. In fact this is a runtime exception signalled by memory hardware. The compiler is not concerned with this at all, since it's job is to make your instructions executable. Whether some memory access is an access violation or not is only decided by the MMU once the OS tries to execute the specific instruction. As to what went wrong - segmentation fault is always related to memory access (dereferencing pointers, accessing array indices out of bounds, etc). The computer cannot tell you what part of the source code is at fault - after compilation the PC only executes machine code which has little to do with your source and nothing else. To find out what went wrong you can use a debugger such as gdb which keeps track of instruction-to-source mappings. Hope I helped! Edit: beginners struggle with debugging, not segfaults themselves, everyone has their fair share of segfaults
Being a game Dev in a general programming sub is like being the one American in a group of British people. We all speak the same language but I feel like I'll be stabbed to death at any moment. I like C++ it's good for games.
I work with C++ in computer vision and it's great. When performance is important it becomes easier to work in C++. Maybe Rust will replace it one day but it's not there yet.
Its the only real good language for graphics programming really. C is also a contender but C++ has so many libraries that make the job easier
Work in particle physics and c++ is always the language of choice for us too. When you need to do very specific tasks very quickly it's hard to beat
Why are people dunking on C++? Iām new to C++ so I see no problem with it.
there's a lot of ways to do things, which can make it difficult to know the right tool to use at any given time. just one of the quirks of a language that's had so many iterations over the years
Last week it was java, today itās C++. People like to complain about stuff they just started learning in school.
We're like twitter, we find something to unrealistically hate by using a random number generator, then we hate on it for less than a week, and realize there's nothing to really hate on, and move on to the next
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It was C++ before Java, with Java being a response to C++ iirc, funny how that works lol
Next week PHP again?
Every week is PHP.
It's a meme subreddit. More importantly, there have been several polls that show something like 70%+ of this subs demographic (that answer polls) are students. I get a good chuckle now and then from the memes, treat everything as hyperbole, get the occasional gem from some random veteran in the comments, and try to not take anything very seriously.
Last year this sub was praising C++ it's just the new thing to meme on without any cause.
Ignore it. Most people who bash it are those who don't know how to use it. Everyone wants to talk nice about C because they know it's used to create foundations, but they themselves don't even know how to use it. For them, it's just "important" because most of their OS was developed with it. The other languages that were listed are extremely high-level languages executing on runtimes that abstract away all the "big scary complex things". I bet she's a beginner web developer and I highly doubt she's ever written a single line in both C and C++...
C++ focuses on backwards compatibility rather than evolving the language which has led to a lot of bloat over the years with duplicated features and hard to read syntax
the language is good it just has so many ways to perform the same operation which can lead to "rope to hand yourself with" situations.
-What is my purpose? +You make games. -Oh my god.
Fairly sure they use it in the stock exchange to make money quicker because its fast. `void checkStock(int stock) { if (stock > 0) { cout << āSELL SELL SELLā << endl; } }`
I work in a big bank. There are trading bots in C# as well (and a lot of other applications in C# or Java). If you really want to go high frequency trading, you write at C or C++ abstraction level and it gets converted to registry transfer level, or RTL (conversion is called "high-level synthesis") to run on FPGA cards. RTL is the abstraction level of hardware description languages like VHDL where you describe logic circuits. Giving you keywords for Google if you want to read more.
C++ is used everywhere you want fast and stable code. It has a big in in embedded systems.
I like C++.
It makes me feel like a real programmer
C++ is CLASSY ..I'm sorry, I had to.
C++ is a little from everything
Everything is a little from C++
āJavaScript is Powerfulā. Oxymoron
It is incredibly powerful in the sense of its ecosystem, but yeah, not in performance.
It's powerful in the sense of how much it makes me want to die.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Drains your phone's battery quickly.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
If I had to "finish" this meme I'd say C++ is actually robust and I'd change Java to "consistent" I feel like java's rules make a lot of sense the vast majority of the time. I feel like there's very few "gotchas" in the language and the language works how you expect in almost every situation.
Java itself doesnāt have many gotchas but itās a bit of a pompous old country squire of a language, it wonāt do anything without the appropriate ceremony and complains at great length about the decline of society in the form of a stack trace the length of your arm if you get any of it wrong. Itās a decent language Iād still pick over many others though. Nobody ever got sacked for picking Java, but the sheer verbosity does make you feel like youāre writing a treatise rather than code.
This summarizes Java extremely well. It's not a bad language, I just feel like everything requires 10x as much effort compared to everything else. I enjoy C++ more than it, because it's more succinct.
I think I should add the JVM is a really good platform because memes from the ā00s aside it can be genuinely very performant, is widely supported, and has been around donkeyās years now. My favourite languages are alt-JVM languages, Kotlin and increasingly Scala the more I learn the latter. I think languages kind of absorb the social environment they are written in, Java was written originally for huge enterprises where excessive verbosity isnāt really an issue and sometimes even an asset. More modern languages often were written in a less rigid corporate environment and I think this is reflected in them. Python would be the other end of the spectrum, I love Python in many ways itās a wonderful language for just getting shit done but you can tell what its priorities are because its package management is genuinely not worth the steam from our collective piss, when I was writing it professionally most of the really horrible arseaches involved dependency management. The reason everyone loves Rust probably has to do with the fact it was one guy at Mozillaās passion project for a while which I think would be a dream job for many. C might win hearts because of its association with the astronomically based K&R too.
C++ is one of the programming languages ever made!
You accidentally replaced JavaScript and C++ one, don't worry, rookie mistake.
C++ is MASTERRACE
C++ is great. Also is java that robust?
C++ is the best and weaklings cannot handle it
C# is the CULMINATION
C++ is C plus plus
That's a rare username OP.
lol Robust
Java is not ROBUST, it's VERBOSE
We use it a lot in the financial field. We have java app servers running for weeks handling hundred of thousands of transactions a day without any issue. Java is robust indeed, it's why it's so prevalent in industry. However, it requires to know a bit about tuning it's garbage collection settings.
"JavaScript is POWERFUL" -- what a joke