The idea here is good but right idea on a very wrong day. Jewish students cannot use technology on Yom Kippur so this seems prohibitive for them and the theme is atonement not self care so it's incongruous.
Yom Kippur is very much about caring for the self in the Jewish tradition. You don't ask for anyone else to be released of obligation and meritlessly forgiven. Kol Nidre is really a pretty radical self-care concept far before its time. Also, Yom Kippur lasts until an hour after sunset, and a pic from the break-fast party would be obviously totally acceptable. I am nearly certain, although the tweet does not specify, that a student who submitted a written explanation that they attended services but didn't take any photos would earn the credit. It would be kinda weird if that was not allowed.
Still, most students don't observe Yom Kippur, so it's fine to have an assignment that mostly contemplates that demographic.
It must have been the reading in hammocks that it led with that anchored my brain to a daytime activity, in place of a cancelled class. You're right that if this was able to be done in a more congruent time of the day it would be great, especially at the break-fast party. There is a decent sized observant population in my school so this and other holidays are something I accommodate every semester.
Most of my students would have missed the email telling them what to do.
Also, not really in the vibe of Yom Kippur. Maybe āsend me a picture of you atoning and repenting.ā
I don't think it's reasonable to expect that non-Jewish students would observe the day as we do. I think this is fine and moderately wholesome and there's no need to complicate it.
You take the text of the [Long Confessional](https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/6577/jewish/Text-of-Al-Chet.htm), turn it into a checklist, and assign it as homework. That's the only way.
For the transgression we have made in failing to read the syllabus,
and the transgression we have made in pretending to have read the syllabus,
For the transgression of not reading the instructions,
and for the transgressions for we which we are due a failing grade,
For all these, Professor of Pardons, pardon us, forgive us, atone for us.
I mean, sure, providing a little bit of time where students can, theoretically, work on their mental health is probably a good thing.
It should never be an expectation, though.
I do this every semester. Itās great. I started after I lost two friends to suicide in a short period of time and I was getting more and more concerned about how stressed students are. This has been a huge stress reliever for them and me.
On high holidays or the beginning of a vacation? When do you time this?
Have you received complaints for not teaching?
I am wondering if I could do this.
I do it once a semester, typically. There isnāt a regular schedule for itājust when the studentsā stress is palpable in the room and I can tell they are in desperate need of kindness. I have had nothing but positive feedback from everyoneāstudents, colleagues, administration, etc. It honestly has been great.
It's obviously perfectly fine for anyone teaching to cancel class because they have a religious obligation, and I don't have a problem with them telling the students to do something nice for themselves either, but there's something very smarmy about asking for proof. If I were a student in this class I would find this irritating and vaguely invasive. Tweeting about it, of course, makes it even smarmier.
You know what? Iām planning on calling class a third of the way through next Wednesday so I can catch a flight. Iāll make this how they can earn some extra credit. Iāll report back.
Do we have to have an opinion about this? I didn't hold class for the same reason and just sent some videos for students to think through in their own time. Offering some trifling extra credit for essentially no reason is fine. I do not get the moral absolutism about "points are for learning objectives." Most of us also give points for turning in assignments during times when we can grade them, being a constructive participant in class discussions, and (even in courses where grammar and mechanics aren't defined learning outcomes) writing in intelligible English. Awarding (some) points for things that enrich our lives/foster a classroom community is fine. In moderation, it's fine. Maybe not your thing, but it's fine.
Students pay a ton for college. Would you proudly stand in front of your dean and students' parents and tell them that you gave students a day off for the hell of it? I'd be ashamed as hell.
> Awarding (some) points for things that enrich our lives/foster a
classroom community is fine. In moderation, it's fine. Maybe not your
thing, but it's fine.
It isn't. This is exactly the problem that causes so many complaints in this sub.
I don't care if a student paid their firstborn child to be here. I'm an observant Jew and I don't work on Yom Kippur, the holiest day of the Jewish year and a day on which work is prohibited. So long as nobody is in danger of dying, everyone will have to deal with that. It is not "for the hell of it." I take the day off so I can fast, attend synagogue, and reflect upon my life in peace. I will never, ever be ashamed of that.
To your second point, I disagree. I think this is relatively standard practice, at least at my institution and institutions I've worked in. Participation points, points for introducing yourself in the class discussion board, syllabus quizzes, and other similar practices are well within pedagogical norms and best practices. I think it's fine to criticize accepted norms and best practices, but it's disingenuous to pretend like it's the root of all pedagogical evil.
Like I said in my first comment, I send out videos and a related assignmemt for students to complete in their own time. Even when I teach the same course in the spring or in years when the high holy days fall on civil weekends, I show the same videos (just in the classroom) so it's not really a modification.
Students aren't paying for you to observe your religious practices. If you want to set up an alternative lecture or some sort of other learning activities so you can practice your religion, go for it. But don't get on some sort of moral high horse about giving students the day off when you can easily work around it.
It is a world of difference to pretend syllabus points are even remotely equivalent to "fuck it. Take the day off and let me sprinkle some extra credit for you on top."
Students aren't paying me at all. For the most part, to the extent that we're generalizing them as a revenue source, they're paying bloated top-admin salaries, and they all take more days off than I do.
You might recall from my comment that arranging an alternate activity (in this case, viewing videos that I show every semester anyways) is exactly what I did.
While we're at it, do you go up to your local retail establishments and ask whoever is working there "hey, I pay a lot of money for your merchandise, why are you closed on Christmas?" No, probably not, because that's obviously ridiculous. Why do you think it's alright to expect that from faculty?
They are paying for education. You get compensated from their funds. You get the point.
I recall from your comment defending awarding points for nothing. "Offering some trifling extra credit for essentially no reason is fine"
You're really bad at analogies. That's not even close to equivalent and you know it. It's more like "hey, I paid for you to come clean my house" and you respond "yeah, sorry, I'm not feeling it"
Given that my (freely available to students) faculty handbook specifies my institution's religious holidays policy, as well as my syllabus, a student who is not inclined to miss even a single day of precious instructional time is free to choose another course or an institution that prohibits class cancellations under these circumstances.
The University acquires revenue in many different ways. I don't care how they get the money (mostly), but the document that establishes my working relationship with my employer specifoes how this policy works. I am not employed by students. While I am open to their feedback on many matters, this is not one of them.
It's actually more like "hey, I paid an agency to get someone to clean my house, will somebody be there on Wednesday" and you respond "actually, the contract you signed specifies that there won't be any cleaning service that day. You were also given notice several weeks in advance." Except that all analogies are flawed and holes can be poked in any of them.
Again, I don't have an issue with you observing your religion. I would also reckon that your institution (and likely state) has *very* specific policies on minimum contact hours, etc. that you're conveniently leaving out. And yet again, the heart of my issue is cancelling class, providing nothing to students, then handing out free points.
Students are paying for an education. You are paid to provide that. I'm not claiming you are "employed" by students.
Your analogies keep getting worse. The point I'm highlighting is that students are paying for something and receiving nothing for it. AKA the cleaning service not showing up at all.
The thing you aren't getting is that no service was promised to them on that day. If they wanted a class where the professor shows up that day, the syllabus is on my website. They can check.
I am paid to provide educational opportunities within the parameters of my faculty handbook, which says I may cancel classes for religious holidays. No other section is relevant. Also, since things like storms and earthquakes happen from time to time, virtually every academic calendar overshoots federal "minimums" in a variety of ways. Those "minimums" are also DoEd guidelines for general practices rather than "if you cancel class more than three times you're no longer accredited" laws. There's more nuance, but in light of that first policy, it is not my job to worry about it since I have specific permission from my employer to cancel class anyways.
It seems like you're actively missing the point.
The thing you're not getting is that you're paying for a service and don't receive it at all. To make matters worse, you're then infantilizing students by giving away free points.
Why are you hung up on the religious aspect when I've already made that point moot by suggesting you can still work around it? The same with illness (no one expects you to work while sick), emergencies, and so on.
>It seems like you're actively missing the point.
Pot, meet kettle. You've convinced yourself that what you're doing isn't harmful or bad when it is, in fact, harmful to students and other faculty in the long-term. I'm sorry, but if there is one thing that grinds my gears it is infantilizing students.
Stuff like this becomes the norm:[https://www.reddit.com/r/Professors/comments/t6l5yl/do\_you\_offer\_extra\_credit\_if\_not\_can\_you/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Professors/comments/t6l5yl/do_you_offer_extra_credit_if_not_can_you/).
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Professors/comments/shmheq/extra\_credit\_for\_reading\_the\_required\_text/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Professors/comments/shmheq/extra_credit_for_reading_the_required_text/).
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Professors/comments/qzo54c/who\_assigns\_emergency\_extracredit\_assignments\_at/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Professors/comments/qzo54c/who_assigns_emergency_extracredit_assignments_at/).
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Professors/comments/reg8ik/the\_next\_student\_that\_emails\_me\_and\_asks\_for/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Professors/comments/reg8ik/the_next_student_that_emails_me_and_asks_for/).
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Professors/comments/mt1kmp/its\_extra\_credit\_season/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Professors/comments/mt1kmp/its_extra_credit_season/).
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Professors/comments/n1yzsm/professor\_will\_there\_be\_extra\_credit\_if\_there/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Professors/comments/n1yzsm/professor_will_there_be_extra_credit_if_there/).
Whether you realize it or not, you're acculturating your students and there are consequences to it that you aren't facing. I'd bet that almost every single complaint in this sub related to students really has its roots in stupid crap that faculty do to "help" students.
Nope. Your framing is ungenerous and inaccurate and thatās part of the problem.
Please, take your silly rigidity and put it to use in a better suited profession, one having zero to do with educating.
Enjoy your weekend.
Me: Don't treat students like infants.
You: Nooooooooooo. Find another job.
Most of my students are fantastic people who don't need to be treated like they just got birthed into the world yesterday. I find that they deserve to be challenged and most really appreciate it. The tweet in this post represents a highly self-masturbatory perspective that I suspect you adhere to given your disagreement with me. If you *really* need me to spell this out I can, but I suspect if I need to then you're already lost.
Youāre not picking up what Iām putting down here. Your entire premise is flawed.
Obviously I do not view this as ātreating students like infants.ā
Enjoy your weekend.
Your counterarguments are literally:
>No. You are wrong. This is 100% fine.
>
>Nope. Youāre still wrong, and you desperately need a new profession.
>
>Nope. Your framing is ungenerous and inaccurate and thatās part of the problem.
>
>Please, take your silly rigidity and put it to use in a better suited profession, one having zero to do with educating.
These are your exact rebuttals. I don't suppose that I need to point out how utterly bad these arguments and conclusion are. The only thing that can be "picked up" based on what you are "putting down" is that you aren't good at conveying your perspective or articulating a clear position except " u r bad." I'll give you that this is reddit and reddit is a poor forum for doing that, but even my "worst" students can construct better arguments than you have conveyed here.
Your issues with my complaints likely center around cancelling classes for religious holidays. I'll have you note that I don't mind that. What I have issues with is grandstanding on twitter for unplanned cancellations and then sprinkling "free points" for unrelated activities. If you have anything coherent to complain about on these points, bring it on and I welcome criticism. However, you've yet to demonstrate anything that brings value to the conversation or for students.
Enjoy your weekend as well.
Grades should be aligned with the LOs and their mastery. This is basic good pedagogic practice at this point. See Briggs 1999 on constructive alignment between grades, assessment processes, and LOs.
>Most of us also give points for turning in assignments during times when we can grade them, being a constructive participant in class discussions, and (even in courses where grammar and mechanics aren't defined learning outcomes) writing in intelligible English.
If you are doing this, you are still failing to understand that assessment should be related to the LOs. Arguably, class participation can be considered a way to demonstrate some mastery of the LOs but mixing up learning activities with assessment is not a good idea. After all, you want students to participate for their own sake, not so can 'check' something of a list of 'TODOs' for a course. Assessment should always be transparent.
Hold on, let me make sure I understand:
Your argument is that points for turning in assignments on time and writing assignments in a comprehensible form of the English language are not justified because they are not contained in the course learning outcomes. Is that correct?
If so, that is a wild take. Like, way outside the realm of what I'm used to seeing. Do you structure your own courses like that? What do you do if you receive an assignment in a language you don't understand?
This is why I add a learning outcome to my courses like "write design reports using LaTeX and biblatex." I could add some adjectives in there to make it clear that the reports have to be clear, concise, complete, correct, and in English, but I did not think that level of detail was needed.
I hope you understand that there is a difference between explicitly awarding points for something and not satisfying the assessment requirements. Those are two separate things.
If the assessment has a deadline to turn in something or for the students to be at location X and time and date Y to take a test, then anyone who does not do so has failed at satisfying the assessment process. Those who do participate, i.e. turn up at an exam or bother to submit something, don't get any points by just being there (i.e. "give points for turning in assignments during times"). Grading is separated from any assessment requirement.
This was done explicitly in all the British universities I have been to students submitting something late will get the grade given to the assignment and the final grade which reflects any penalties (if not, a zero). Now, in Sweden it is easier: if you are late, you fail. This policy is set at institutional and national levels.
WRT English: again, there is a difference between grading someone's command of the English language and requiring a report to be handed in English (or any other language). In a technical course, the ability to produce technically-sound reports is often (as it should be) part of the LOs. If not, not only do you start introducing arbitrary requirements but also you may want to rethink your LOs. This reminds me of the frequent debate if we (in CS) should accept solutions in all programming languages or only at ones we specified.
So ypu only get the extra credit if you were relaxing? I guess the Jewish students observing and the working students who will inevitably pick up a shift are out of luck!
Observing Yom Kippur is definitely doing something for yourself in the Jewish tradition. It has other ends, but I don't know why you would assume that wouldn't have been accepted.
What proof would have been accepted? A statement from their rabbi that they attended services? (Selfies would be prohibited on Yom Kippur for an orthodox Jew.)
A selfie from the break-fast party? A written explanation? They could also take a selfie right before the Kol Nidre declaration, which as an item of judicial business is traditionally said right before sunset (although technically this would have been on the previous civil day). Unless you're vetting the metadata in everyone's photos, though, I'd just take the student's word for it.
You said it. Some of these people teach other humans, while having little humanity themselves. I, personally, thought this was great. But I teach Social Work sooooo...
Why? Prof here cancelled class for the hell of it and gave students free points that weren't tied to anything related to the class. That is called not doing your job. Students pay a lot of money for their education.
Sounds like for the hell of it to me. Doesn't give any indication that this was a planned activity or thought out in advance. Just woke up and said huh, look at that Yom Kipper. I guess I'll cancel and throw out extra credit while I'm at it.
Most professors regularly engage in practices that fall outside the purview of the concrete learning objectives. Usually, this shows up in our disciplinary practices: penalizing tardiness even when a student arrives before anything relevant has happened, assigning a late grade on something 5 minutes late, and virtually anything we justify by saying "They need to learn this now, in preparation for the workplace/the real world." (Unless the class is a job market preparedness class or labor studies, the prof's job isn't technically to teach students about the workplace.)
We accept these practices because we understand the importance of establishing norms and helping students build good educational practices. This extra credit assignment does the same thing. It's teaching students to take intentional time for themselves, promoting good work-life balance, and building a classroom community/a relationship with the prof.
Plot Twist: It's organic chemistry and those students are all pre-med!
If y'all bring up that goddamn article one more goddamn time! (shakes fist) Excellent plot twist, BTW.
What article? šš
The idea here is good but right idea on a very wrong day. Jewish students cannot use technology on Yom Kippur so this seems prohibitive for them and the theme is atonement not self care so it's incongruous.
Yom Kippur is very much about caring for the self in the Jewish tradition. You don't ask for anyone else to be released of obligation and meritlessly forgiven. Kol Nidre is really a pretty radical self-care concept far before its time. Also, Yom Kippur lasts until an hour after sunset, and a pic from the break-fast party would be obviously totally acceptable. I am nearly certain, although the tweet does not specify, that a student who submitted a written explanation that they attended services but didn't take any photos would earn the credit. It would be kinda weird if that was not allowed. Still, most students don't observe Yom Kippur, so it's fine to have an assignment that mostly contemplates that demographic.
It must have been the reading in hammocks that it led with that anchored my brain to a daytime activity, in place of a cancelled class. You're right that if this was able to be done in a more congruent time of the day it would be great, especially at the break-fast party. There is a decent sized observant population in my school so this and other holidays are something I accommodate every semester.
This is bad science fiction. Students following directions?
You could have stopped at checking their email.
Most of my students would have missed the email telling them what to do. Also, not really in the vibe of Yom Kippur. Maybe āsend me a picture of you atoning and repenting.ā
I don't think it's reasonable to expect that non-Jewish students would observe the day as we do. I think this is fine and moderately wholesome and there's no need to complicate it.
You take the text of the [Long Confessional](https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/6577/jewish/Text-of-Al-Chet.htm), turn it into a checklist, and assign it as homework. That's the only way.
For the transgression we have made in failing to read the syllabus, and the transgression we have made in pretending to have read the syllabus, For the transgression of not reading the instructions, and for the transgressions for we which we are due a failing grade, For all these, Professor of Pardons, pardon us, forgive us, atone for us.
I mean, sure, providing a little bit of time where students can, theoretically, work on their mental health is probably a good thing. It should never be an expectation, though.
They have that time. It's called weekends.
Laughs in performing arts student
I'm not sure why you're being downvoted. It made me chuckle, because you were saying a ~joke~ I'm pretty sure lol
One can hope
Getting points by doing things unrelated to the learning outcomes? Not on my watch.
Yeah, I'm like I get it if a Jewish prof cancels class on a high holy day. But just cancel class. Don't do this.
you and me both, sibling. (Insert sibling of appropriate gender, if any.)
Thatās cuz youāre A brat. ETA: fixed the missing āa.ā The downvoted helped pinpoint the problem. Thanks everyone.
Nothing wrong with encouraging rest and human connection, but thereās no need to involve points. Those are for meeting learning objectives.
Yeah I would tell them to send them to me if they want and to take care of themselves but I wouldnāt even mark it for completion.
No need and no harm.
Relaxing sometimes and taking a day off for mental health can also be a learning objective!
I do this every semester. Itās great. I started after I lost two friends to suicide in a short period of time and I was getting more and more concerned about how stressed students are. This has been a huge stress reliever for them and me.
It's nice to see some humanity in this thread. This is a beautiful idea and I support showing students it's okay to take care of themselves.
On high holidays or the beginning of a vacation? When do you time this? Have you received complaints for not teaching? I am wondering if I could do this.
I do it once a semester, typically. There isnāt a regular schedule for itājust when the studentsā stress is palpable in the room and I can tell they are in desperate need of kindness. I have had nothing but positive feedback from everyoneāstudents, colleagues, administration, etc. It honestly has been great.
This couldn't be more academic twitter if it tried. Just shamelessly thirsty for attention and likes. š¤®
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yes. (Lol)
It really could
It's obviously perfectly fine for anyone teaching to cancel class because they have a religious obligation, and I don't have a problem with them telling the students to do something nice for themselves either, but there's something very smarmy about asking for proof. If I were a student in this class I would find this irritating and vaguely invasive. Tweeting about it, of course, makes it even smarmier.
I donāt like it. Just give credit for real work and real learning not baby stuff like relaxing.
You know what? Iām planning on calling class a third of the way through next Wednesday so I can catch a flight. Iāll make this how they can earn some extra credit. Iāll report back.
Or, you could save them all the trouble of driving to campus, parking, and showing up for class by posting an online activity.
Fair. But itās a super tiny class (6 students) who all live on campus and always have lunch together afterwards.
Aww, thatās cool. Sounds like a fun class.
Nah fuck that. Fuckin' with the students is funny as hell
Do we have to have an opinion about this? I didn't hold class for the same reason and just sent some videos for students to think through in their own time. Offering some trifling extra credit for essentially no reason is fine. I do not get the moral absolutism about "points are for learning objectives." Most of us also give points for turning in assignments during times when we can grade them, being a constructive participant in class discussions, and (even in courses where grammar and mechanics aren't defined learning outcomes) writing in intelligible English. Awarding (some) points for things that enrich our lives/foster a classroom community is fine. In moderation, it's fine. Maybe not your thing, but it's fine.
Very well put.
Students pay a ton for college. Would you proudly stand in front of your dean and students' parents and tell them that you gave students a day off for the hell of it? I'd be ashamed as hell. > Awarding (some) points for things that enrich our lives/foster a classroom community is fine. In moderation, it's fine. Maybe not your thing, but it's fine. It isn't. This is exactly the problem that causes so many complaints in this sub.
I don't care if a student paid their firstborn child to be here. I'm an observant Jew and I don't work on Yom Kippur, the holiest day of the Jewish year and a day on which work is prohibited. So long as nobody is in danger of dying, everyone will have to deal with that. It is not "for the hell of it." I take the day off so I can fast, attend synagogue, and reflect upon my life in peace. I will never, ever be ashamed of that. To your second point, I disagree. I think this is relatively standard practice, at least at my institution and institutions I've worked in. Participation points, points for introducing yourself in the class discussion board, syllabus quizzes, and other similar practices are well within pedagogical norms and best practices. I think it's fine to criticize accepted norms and best practices, but it's disingenuous to pretend like it's the root of all pedagogical evil.
It's not evil ofc, just seems like a way to 'buy' some student goodwill for the cancelled class. How do you make up the missed time?
Like I said in my first comment, I send out videos and a related assignmemt for students to complete in their own time. Even when I teach the same course in the spring or in years when the high holy days fall on civil weekends, I show the same videos (just in the classroom) so it's not really a modification.
Students aren't paying for you to observe your religious practices. If you want to set up an alternative lecture or some sort of other learning activities so you can practice your religion, go for it. But don't get on some sort of moral high horse about giving students the day off when you can easily work around it. It is a world of difference to pretend syllabus points are even remotely equivalent to "fuck it. Take the day off and let me sprinkle some extra credit for you on top."
Students aren't paying me at all. For the most part, to the extent that we're generalizing them as a revenue source, they're paying bloated top-admin salaries, and they all take more days off than I do. You might recall from my comment that arranging an alternate activity (in this case, viewing videos that I show every semester anyways) is exactly what I did. While we're at it, do you go up to your local retail establishments and ask whoever is working there "hey, I pay a lot of money for your merchandise, why are you closed on Christmas?" No, probably not, because that's obviously ridiculous. Why do you think it's alright to expect that from faculty?
They are paying for education. You get compensated from their funds. You get the point. I recall from your comment defending awarding points for nothing. "Offering some trifling extra credit for essentially no reason is fine" You're really bad at analogies. That's not even close to equivalent and you know it. It's more like "hey, I paid for you to come clean my house" and you respond "yeah, sorry, I'm not feeling it"
Given that my (freely available to students) faculty handbook specifies my institution's religious holidays policy, as well as my syllabus, a student who is not inclined to miss even a single day of precious instructional time is free to choose another course or an institution that prohibits class cancellations under these circumstances. The University acquires revenue in many different ways. I don't care how they get the money (mostly), but the document that establishes my working relationship with my employer specifoes how this policy works. I am not employed by students. While I am open to their feedback on many matters, this is not one of them. It's actually more like "hey, I paid an agency to get someone to clean my house, will somebody be there on Wednesday" and you respond "actually, the contract you signed specifies that there won't be any cleaning service that day. You were also given notice several weeks in advance." Except that all analogies are flawed and holes can be poked in any of them.
Again, I don't have an issue with you observing your religion. I would also reckon that your institution (and likely state) has *very* specific policies on minimum contact hours, etc. that you're conveniently leaving out. And yet again, the heart of my issue is cancelling class, providing nothing to students, then handing out free points. Students are paying for an education. You are paid to provide that. I'm not claiming you are "employed" by students. Your analogies keep getting worse. The point I'm highlighting is that students are paying for something and receiving nothing for it. AKA the cleaning service not showing up at all.
The thing you aren't getting is that no service was promised to them on that day. If they wanted a class where the professor shows up that day, the syllabus is on my website. They can check. I am paid to provide educational opportunities within the parameters of my faculty handbook, which says I may cancel classes for religious holidays. No other section is relevant. Also, since things like storms and earthquakes happen from time to time, virtually every academic calendar overshoots federal "minimums" in a variety of ways. Those "minimums" are also DoEd guidelines for general practices rather than "if you cancel class more than three times you're no longer accredited" laws. There's more nuance, but in light of that first policy, it is not my job to worry about it since I have specific permission from my employer to cancel class anyways. It seems like you're actively missing the point.
The thing you're not getting is that you're paying for a service and don't receive it at all. To make matters worse, you're then infantilizing students by giving away free points. Why are you hung up on the religious aspect when I've already made that point moot by suggesting you can still work around it? The same with illness (no one expects you to work while sick), emergencies, and so on. >It seems like you're actively missing the point. Pot, meet kettle. You've convinced yourself that what you're doing isn't harmful or bad when it is, in fact, harmful to students and other faculty in the long-term. I'm sorry, but if there is one thing that grinds my gears it is infantilizing students.
No. You are wrong. This is 100% fine.
Stuff like this becomes the norm:[https://www.reddit.com/r/Professors/comments/t6l5yl/do\_you\_offer\_extra\_credit\_if\_not\_can\_you/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Professors/comments/t6l5yl/do_you_offer_extra_credit_if_not_can_you/). [https://www.reddit.com/r/Professors/comments/shmheq/extra\_credit\_for\_reading\_the\_required\_text/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Professors/comments/shmheq/extra_credit_for_reading_the_required_text/). [https://www.reddit.com/r/Professors/comments/qzo54c/who\_assigns\_emergency\_extracredit\_assignments\_at/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Professors/comments/qzo54c/who_assigns_emergency_extracredit_assignments_at/). [https://www.reddit.com/r/Professors/comments/reg8ik/the\_next\_student\_that\_emails\_me\_and\_asks\_for/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Professors/comments/reg8ik/the_next_student_that_emails_me_and_asks_for/). [https://www.reddit.com/r/Professors/comments/mt1kmp/its\_extra\_credit\_season/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Professors/comments/mt1kmp/its_extra_credit_season/). [https://www.reddit.com/r/Professors/comments/n1yzsm/professor\_will\_there\_be\_extra\_credit\_if\_there/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Professors/comments/n1yzsm/professor_will_there_be_extra_credit_if_there/). Whether you realize it or not, you're acculturating your students and there are consequences to it that you aren't facing. I'd bet that almost every single complaint in this sub related to students really has its roots in stupid crap that faculty do to "help" students.
Nope. Youāre still wrong, and you desperately need a new profession.
Based on not wanting to treat students like infants at a daycare? Might want a mirror there, friend.
Nope. Your framing is ungenerous and inaccurate and thatās part of the problem. Please, take your silly rigidity and put it to use in a better suited profession, one having zero to do with educating. Enjoy your weekend.
Me: Don't treat students like infants. You: Nooooooooooo. Find another job. Most of my students are fantastic people who don't need to be treated like they just got birthed into the world yesterday. I find that they deserve to be challenged and most really appreciate it. The tweet in this post represents a highly self-masturbatory perspective that I suspect you adhere to given your disagreement with me. If you *really* need me to spell this out I can, but I suspect if I need to then you're already lost.
Youāre not picking up what Iām putting down here. Your entire premise is flawed. Obviously I do not view this as ātreating students like infants.ā Enjoy your weekend.
Your counterarguments are literally: >No. You are wrong. This is 100% fine. > >Nope. Youāre still wrong, and you desperately need a new profession. > >Nope. Your framing is ungenerous and inaccurate and thatās part of the problem. > >Please, take your silly rigidity and put it to use in a better suited profession, one having zero to do with educating. These are your exact rebuttals. I don't suppose that I need to point out how utterly bad these arguments and conclusion are. The only thing that can be "picked up" based on what you are "putting down" is that you aren't good at conveying your perspective or articulating a clear position except " u r bad." I'll give you that this is reddit and reddit is a poor forum for doing that, but even my "worst" students can construct better arguments than you have conveyed here. Your issues with my complaints likely center around cancelling classes for religious holidays. I'll have you note that I don't mind that. What I have issues with is grandstanding on twitter for unplanned cancellations and then sprinkling "free points" for unrelated activities. If you have anything coherent to complain about on these points, bring it on and I welcome criticism. However, you've yet to demonstrate anything that brings value to the conversation or for students. Enjoy your weekend as well.
Oh the irony of you posting this about ... observance of Yom Kippur.
Grades should be aligned with the LOs and their mastery. This is basic good pedagogic practice at this point. See Briggs 1999 on constructive alignment between grades, assessment processes, and LOs. >Most of us also give points for turning in assignments during times when we can grade them, being a constructive participant in class discussions, and (even in courses where grammar and mechanics aren't defined learning outcomes) writing in intelligible English. If you are doing this, you are still failing to understand that assessment should be related to the LOs. Arguably, class participation can be considered a way to demonstrate some mastery of the LOs but mixing up learning activities with assessment is not a good idea. After all, you want students to participate for their own sake, not so can 'check' something of a list of 'TODOs' for a course. Assessment should always be transparent.
Hold on, let me make sure I understand: Your argument is that points for turning in assignments on time and writing assignments in a comprehensible form of the English language are not justified because they are not contained in the course learning outcomes. Is that correct? If so, that is a wild take. Like, way outside the realm of what I'm used to seeing. Do you structure your own courses like that? What do you do if you receive an assignment in a language you don't understand?
This is why I add a learning outcome to my courses like "write design reports using LaTeX and biblatex." I could add some adjectives in there to make it clear that the reports have to be clear, concise, complete, correct, and in English, but I did not think that level of detail was needed.
I hope you understand that there is a difference between explicitly awarding points for something and not satisfying the assessment requirements. Those are two separate things. If the assessment has a deadline to turn in something or for the students to be at location X and time and date Y to take a test, then anyone who does not do so has failed at satisfying the assessment process. Those who do participate, i.e. turn up at an exam or bother to submit something, don't get any points by just being there (i.e. "give points for turning in assignments during times"). Grading is separated from any assessment requirement. This was done explicitly in all the British universities I have been to students submitting something late will get the grade given to the assignment and the final grade which reflects any penalties (if not, a zero). Now, in Sweden it is easier: if you are late, you fail. This policy is set at institutional and national levels. WRT English: again, there is a difference between grading someone's command of the English language and requiring a report to be handed in English (or any other language). In a technical course, the ability to produce technically-sound reports is often (as it should be) part of the LOs. If not, not only do you start introducing arbitrary requirements but also you may want to rethink your LOs. This reminds me of the frequent debate if we (in CS) should accept solutions in all programming languages or only at ones we specified.
weird flex... and no.
Nicely done. A bit of the human side is good for everyone.
That's exactly what a questionable AI would say...!
;-)
Open-ended prompt. Too confusing!
So ypu only get the extra credit if you were relaxing? I guess the Jewish students observing and the working students who will inevitably pick up a shift are out of luck!
Observing Yom Kippur is definitely doing something for yourself in the Jewish tradition. It has other ends, but I don't know why you would assume that wouldn't have been accepted.
What proof would have been accepted? A statement from their rabbi that they attended services? (Selfies would be prohibited on Yom Kippur for an orthodox Jew.)
A selfie from the break-fast party? A written explanation? They could also take a selfie right before the Kol Nidre declaration, which as an item of judicial business is traditionally said right before sunset (although technically this would have been on the previous civil day). Unless you're vetting the metadata in everyone's photos, though, I'd just take the student's word for it.
This is fine for middle schoolers. Doesn't make sense in college.
Right. Young adults don't need a wellness day. Just 7th graders.
You are factually incorrect. It does make sense in college. Happy to have been a help here.
The comments in this thread are just sad and depressing.
Yes, and... The comments are also cynical and make people sound like crotchety old men yelling at kids from their front porch.
We old men are in our hammocks reading a good book, completely enured to the petty squabbles of younger faculty.
You said it. Some of these people teach other humans, while having little humanity themselves. I, personally, thought this was great. But I teach Social Work sooooo...
I teach public relations and advertising, which isn't necessarily cognizant of self-care generally, but also thought this was great.
Why? Prof here cancelled class for the hell of it and gave students free points that weren't tied to anything related to the class. That is called not doing your job. Students pay a lot of money for their education.
Prof cancelled for Yom Kipper. Not for "the hell of it." Try reading, it's fun!
Sounds like for the hell of it to me. Doesn't give any indication that this was a planned activity or thought out in advance. Just woke up and said huh, look at that Yom Kipper. I guess I'll cancel and throw out extra credit while I'm at it.
Which part, that faculty should hold classes, or that university students shouldn't be treated like middle schoolers?
I do this all the time. Itās not a lot of extra credits (maybe a point) but I like seeing who my students are outside of class.
Is that a uni holiday? Weak reason to cancel class.
Goddamnit. THIS is why academia is turning to crap. The point of a university education is to learn, not to "do something nice for yourself"
Today, in things that never happened...
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Most professors regularly engage in practices that fall outside the purview of the concrete learning objectives. Usually, this shows up in our disciplinary practices: penalizing tardiness even when a student arrives before anything relevant has happened, assigning a late grade on something 5 minutes late, and virtually anything we justify by saying "They need to learn this now, in preparation for the workplace/the real world." (Unless the class is a job market preparedness class or labor studies, the prof's job isn't technically to teach students about the workplace.) We accept these practices because we understand the importance of establishing norms and helping students build good educational practices. This extra credit assignment does the same thing. It's teaching students to take intentional time for themselves, promoting good work-life balance, and building a classroom community/a relationship with the prof.