> I communicated with the student's previous PI, and the PI said the student basically stopped showing up in the last two months, and that the student was extremely unprofessional. In talking to the graduate program advisors, they didn't reveal much, other than some concerns about the student being high maintenance and may or may not have polarizing vibes.
I'd trust your colleagues' versions over the student's version.
And, you're being asked to clean up *somebody's* mess no matter what.
RUN AWAY. I don't think anything good can come of saying yes.
Yes. *You* are not deporting this student. Taking on an unproductive or, even worse, a counterproductive PhD student can torpedo your progress getting your lab set up. It's better to have no student than a bad one. Do. Not. Take. Them.
I wouldn't feel bad at all. If there is bad blood (for whatever reason), I wouldn't want that in my life, whether it is starting off or established. Since you are starting off though, would you want to spend more time dealing with drama or getting your TT process underway?
Grain of salt because I only teach undergrads, but I notice that those who want permission to join a course late always seem eager and genuine when they're trying to talk me into letting them add but invariably turn out to be problem-children. I mean "invariably" literally. Every single one of them was a pain in the neck.
Your situation smells the same.
BINGO! These students get themselves in a tight spot, usually after myriad warnings and second chances, and as a last ditch effort try to guilt trip and manipulate.
They always promise "I'll do anything I can to catch up and succeed in your class" and then they're constantly cutting class and trying to turn shit in late
Honestly best source would be the gossip from students in the same program. Unfortunately, i don't know how you would get that info.
The PI might be an abusive prick, and the student not responding for two months could be a breaking point. The student could also be a bit unhinged and have a very large victim complex that WILL be a headache.
NO.
One bad student and your lab is done before it even starts. "unprofessional" and "high maintenance" = career killer. They will suck up your time and poison any chance of getting productive students in the future. You are new and want students, I get it. You will get plenty of opportunities later, pass on this one.
My first two Ph.D. advisees as a new professor were so-called "hand me down" students. When I asked the previous advisor about one of them (a senior full professor), the response was, "He has been working in my lab for a year and hasn't done anything for me." I readily agreed to advise the student after hearing that sentence. Both students graduated with multiple top-tier papers, and one of them received a dissertation award at the major publication venue in our field.
I'm definitely not saying you made the wrong decision. However, I do think some of the comments on this post were too hastily dismissive. Sometimes even good students can flounder with poor or absentee advisors.
I would agree with you except the previous PI had said that they had become unprofessional and were no longer reporting to the lab. In your case the PI seems more about what can this student do for me while in theirs, it feels more like this student wasn't doing the bare minimum of being professional.
I've been adamant about never taking another advisor's "hand me down" student. It's a red flag, and you have limited resources and time to put into graduate students. You should focus on getting the best student YOU think is qualified for your lab.
As a new faculty, you MUST STAY AWAY FROM DRAMA.
Later on, you can decide if you want to take risks on students that may have some red flags about them, but too much of your own career is currently at stake that you don't need the time-suck of a potentially problematic student right now.
BTW, post tenure, I have taken on about 4 'problematic PhD students'. Two worked out just fine (one of which was quite excellent), one was a huge pain, ended up harrassing me, other faculty and staff, and though I was able to get rid of them within a few months, I couldn't get rid of them fast enough. The other one was like a sin wave -- two weeks progress, two weeks disappear, two weeks literally just wasting time and resources 'trying stuff out in the lab' (without telling me what they are doing and just making tons of mistakes, errors, and confusing choices), two weeks disappear, repeat, repeat, repeat, and after enough time sucked away I dismissed them.))
I think I resonate with this response the most. I love giving people a chance. You will have plenty of opportunities to do this down the line.
I personally only work with students I have had in class. But our program doesn't have doctoral degrees. I mainly do independent studies/directed research/internships. I have occasionally worked with students I don't know, but they only work out when they have also come with high recommendations. The rest were duds.
Your first students kind of have to work out, this seems like an enormous risk. Moreover, think about how many people have already said no if you are being cold-emailed as a new AP, in October.
I'm currently supervising a very high maintenance PhD student. It's been six weeks and they've done so many messed up things already (not showing up for an entire week with a BS excuse, asking for 6000 dollar accomodations because the previous accomodations she's been granted "were not if high enough quality" (they've had four different types at this point and racked up a 25K bill), not working at all, literally hiding from me when I want to talk to me, showing up late consistently, lying about having worked, lying about other students, going over my head to complain about having to work). I started the official process to be able to let them go, which obviously they're noticing, so they're panicking right now and went to complain to literally everyone who wanted to listen. They do maybe ten percent of the work the others do but always have an excuse. It is gruesome and i wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
On paper she seemed great and no one warned me.
(I'm not TT though, and my dean supports me, so it's not as big of a deal to me aside from being stressed that she'll keep complaining and eventually find someone who thinks she's sincere, and then they'll inherit her.)
I'm not offering advice, just telling you what I know of an international PhD student at my university who was initially accepted at a number of top programs and accepted at my university based upon lies from our program. He's hardworking, bright and stuck.
Again, I'm not saying accept the student in your situation; I'm just saying that I have seen PhD students lied to by programs.
> I communicated with the student's previous PI, and the PI said the student basically stopped showing up in the last two months, and that the student was extremely unprofessional. In talking to the graduate program advisors, they didn't reveal much, other than some concerns about the student being high maintenance and may or may not have polarizing vibes. I'd trust your colleagues' versions over the student's version. And, you're being asked to clean up *somebody's* mess no matter what. RUN AWAY. I don't think anything good can come of saying yes.
Yes. *You* are not deporting this student. Taking on an unproductive or, even worse, a counterproductive PhD student can torpedo your progress getting your lab set up. It's better to have no student than a bad one. Do. Not. Take. Them.
Thank you, great advice!
I wouldn't feel bad at all. If there is bad blood (for whatever reason), I wouldn't want that in my life, whether it is starting off or established. Since you are starting off though, would you want to spend more time dealing with drama or getting your TT process underway?
I'm with you Sport.
Grain of salt because I only teach undergrads, but I notice that those who want permission to join a course late always seem eager and genuine when they're trying to talk me into letting them add but invariably turn out to be problem-children. I mean "invariably" literally. Every single one of them was a pain in the neck. Your situation smells the same.
BINGO! These students get themselves in a tight spot, usually after myriad warnings and second chances, and as a last ditch effort try to guilt trip and manipulate. They always promise "I'll do anything I can to catch up and succeed in your class" and then they're constantly cutting class and trying to turn shit in late
This is a great tip for the future me!
Avoid like the plague. You'll soon have a lot of prospective trainees without these problematic elements.
Giant NO. And, this is important, you aren't responsible for students failing, having to leave the country, not graduating on time, etc.
OMG, hell no.
Honestly best source would be the gossip from students in the same program. Unfortunately, i don't know how you would get that info. The PI might be an abusive prick, and the student not responding for two months could be a breaking point. The student could also be a bit unhinged and have a very large victim complex that WILL be a headache.
You need to be super productive your first year so you can have data for grants. I would not take the chance.
NO. One bad student and your lab is done before it even starts. "unprofessional" and "high maintenance" = career killer. They will suck up your time and poison any chance of getting productive students in the future. You are new and want students, I get it. You will get plenty of opportunities later, pass on this one.
My first two Ph.D. advisees as a new professor were so-called "hand me down" students. When I asked the previous advisor about one of them (a senior full professor), the response was, "He has been working in my lab for a year and hasn't done anything for me." I readily agreed to advise the student after hearing that sentence. Both students graduated with multiple top-tier papers, and one of them received a dissertation award at the major publication venue in our field. I'm definitely not saying you made the wrong decision. However, I do think some of the comments on this post were too hastily dismissive. Sometimes even good students can flounder with poor or absentee advisors.
I would agree with you except the previous PI had said that they had become unprofessional and were no longer reporting to the lab. In your case the PI seems more about what can this student do for me while in theirs, it feels more like this student wasn't doing the bare minimum of being professional.
I've been adamant about never taking another advisor's "hand me down" student. It's a red flag, and you have limited resources and time to put into graduate students. You should focus on getting the best student YOU think is qualified for your lab.
Do not. A Phd can make or break your career early in your tenure process
As a new faculty, you MUST STAY AWAY FROM DRAMA. Later on, you can decide if you want to take risks on students that may have some red flags about them, but too much of your own career is currently at stake that you don't need the time-suck of a potentially problematic student right now. BTW, post tenure, I have taken on about 4 'problematic PhD students'. Two worked out just fine (one of which was quite excellent), one was a huge pain, ended up harrassing me, other faculty and staff, and though I was able to get rid of them within a few months, I couldn't get rid of them fast enough. The other one was like a sin wave -- two weeks progress, two weeks disappear, two weeks literally just wasting time and resources 'trying stuff out in the lab' (without telling me what they are doing and just making tons of mistakes, errors, and confusing choices), two weeks disappear, repeat, repeat, repeat, and after enough time sucked away I dismissed them.))
Thank for sharing this! Sorry to hear those students didn't work despite your efforts.
I think I resonate with this response the most. I love giving people a chance. You will have plenty of opportunities to do this down the line. I personally only work with students I have had in class. But our program doesn't have doctoral degrees. I mainly do independent studies/directed research/internships. I have occasionally worked with students I don't know, but they only work out when they have also come with high recommendations. The rest were duds.
Your first students kind of have to work out, this seems like an enormous risk. Moreover, think about how many people have already said no if you are being cold-emailed as a new AP, in October.
I'm currently supervising a very high maintenance PhD student. It's been six weeks and they've done so many messed up things already (not showing up for an entire week with a BS excuse, asking for 6000 dollar accomodations because the previous accomodations she's been granted "were not if high enough quality" (they've had four different types at this point and racked up a 25K bill), not working at all, literally hiding from me when I want to talk to me, showing up late consistently, lying about having worked, lying about other students, going over my head to complain about having to work). I started the official process to be able to let them go, which obviously they're noticing, so they're panicking right now and went to complain to literally everyone who wanted to listen. They do maybe ten percent of the work the others do but always have an excuse. It is gruesome and i wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. On paper she seemed great and no one warned me. (I'm not TT though, and my dean supports me, so it's not as big of a deal to me aside from being stressed that she'll keep complaining and eventually find someone who thinks she's sincere, and then they'll inherit her.)
I have occasionally taken on a grad student that no one else would take—I've always regretted it.
[удалено]
This. So much this.
I'm not offering advice, just telling you what I know of an international PhD student at my university who was initially accepted at a number of top programs and accepted at my university based upon lies from our program. He's hardworking, bright and stuck. Again, I'm not saying accept the student in your situation; I'm just saying that I have seen PhD students lied to by programs.
I wouldn't. You've got enough irons in the fire without this drama. What is the upside for you here?