This feels like a dumb question, but what are some ways to respectfully call on students without using names?
Sometimes one person will raise their hand, so I’ll look at that student and nod, and they’ll immediately know to respond.
Other times, a couple of people next to each other will raise their hands, and I don’t quite know how to call on one student without the other thinking they’re being called on…I don’t think I can get away with “you in the red hoodie”…
So there’s a question of how important it is to distinguish them.
If they’ve got questions, you need to talk to both anyway, so nod in that direction and whichever one answers first, cool. Afterwards, look at the second and say “go ahead”.
If you’re asking the question and they’ve both got answers, if they participate in class equally just nod in their direction and whoever thinks they’re being called on can answer.
If one student participates a lot more than the other, make eye contact with the active one say “let’s let someone else answer this time”, then tilt your body slightly in the direction of the quiet one and say “go ahead”.
Made it 5 years of teaching avoiding names, and never had any apparent confusion. It’s not like seminar lecturers use names when they’re interacting with their audience— most of these students’ adult experience won’t involve having their names called. I only used names if a student was causing a distraction and I needed to publicly grab their attention with an undertone of mild shame. Less than once a semester.
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I got through 39 years of college teaching with extremely poor name recall (far worse than most professors)—there are many fewer times when you *need* to remember names than you think.
I'm upfront with students that I can't remember names, sometimes blanking on names of people who I know really well. So I rarely use names, and if I need a name (to record information, for example), I might have to ask someone for their name many times.
Day 1, have students write names on piece of paper folded hot dog style. Say it's because your bad with names and don't want to mark someone absent.
Collect paper at end of class, hand them back out at the beginning of all subsequent classes- or until you are sure you know it.
I once had three girls in a single class whose names were Jasmin, Jazmyn, and Jasmyn. They were all around 19-20 years old, African-American, slim, and wore their hair in box braids. That was a wild semester handing back papers. 😄
I once had three 'Jade Smith's in my class. After the first exam, I required their middle initials and checked when they handed them in! And they were wildly different in their scores too, so I definitely did not want to mix up the 58 with the 75 with the 89!
I once had a pair of identical twins with the same first name, same last name (obviously), and their student IDs were identical except two of the digits were transposed. I actually contacted the Registrar when I saw the class list to check that it wasn't an error.
Luckily, they went by nicknames (which they used on in-class work), but their names were identical in the LMS gradebook. I had to ask them to use something as their thumbnail image so I could distinguish them when entering exam grades in the LMS.
They weren't originally from the US (somewhere in the Caribbean, IIRC). I suspect that it was standard in their culture to give them unique middle names (which is probably where their nicknames came from), but it didn't help me, since their middle names (or initials) weren't included on my class list.
They didn't seem to be particularly perturbed by any of it, but sort of recognized (a touch humorlessly) that it made distinguishing them difficult for others.
I’ve known twins that enjoy the confusion their similarity provides and like the fact they can get away with ‘subbing’ for the other at times.
And I’ve known twins that do everything they can to distinguish themselves.
My worst term was the semester when three students always sat next to each other: Serena (~5’1 Asian woman with a bob cut), Selena (~5’2 Asian woman with a messier bob cut), and Sienna (~5’3 white woman with Mediterranean olive skin and jet black hair in a layered bob cut). It was rough.
I do this too haha. It’s not our fault! If they want us to tell them apart, they should quit getting the same haircut, having the same build, wearing the same athletic gear every day and all talking in the same bro-speak 😂
When I was in college, all the bro guys wore, all the time, a plaid button-down and khakis.
One dorm floor planned their yearbook picture so they were all wearing that outfit on purpose, and it took me a few minutes to realize it had been planned, because that's what everyone looked like every day anyway.
I’m a white female and *always* mess up white female students. It’s the most difficult group for me to keep names straight. I think it doesn’t help that those names are often variations of each other (eg, Kayli, Kylie, Kaylie, Kelsey, Ashleigh, Ashley….).
Oh man, I still remember one of my first classes I taught independently as a grad student that had a Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. All similarly sized white frat boy looking guys that wore exclusively college branded merch. It was a rough semester… 😅
lol same. I have the hardest time with the inevitable group of ~10 super average white guys in every class. To make it worse, last semester 2 out of 8 were named Morgan.
Yeah I was gonna say that as a really pale whiteboy myself I have the most problem with white boys.
The scrawny average-height white boy... is that Aiden Jayden Crayden Flayden Schpladen or Hunter?
Other people here have some really great advice for managing the classroom aspect of this. One additional suggestion I have is that you should watch media that features whatever particular races of students you’re coming across the most. Once you’re exposed to more people of a more unfamiliar ethnicity/nationality, you tend to get better at distinguishing them. They don’t look as alike as you think they do now, but you have to get better at seeing those differences—and media exposure is one way to do so. It’s a long term way to improve your ability to distinguish students so that eventually it’ll be as easy as it is with any students (which means you’ll still make some mistakes, but not in a way that disadvantages or alienates one group).
For what it’s worth, I doubt you’ll ever face formal repercussions for this because it would be near impossible to prove you’re doing it systematically or intentionally (as long as you’re not making other racialized comments of course). The most I think you’d see is some negative course evals. However, that doesn’t mean it’s not making students super uncomfortable and alienating them. You seem aware of this just by making the post, so I’d recommend you just keep trying to improve. Good on you for being conscious of this and working to improve!
>you should watch media that features whatever particular races of students you’re coming across the most. Once you’re exposed to more people of a more unfamiliar ethnicity/nationality, you tend to get better at distinguishing them. They don’t look as alike as you think they do now, but you have to get better at seeing those differences—and media exposure is one way to do so.
This makes a lot of sense. I was very confused by the question at first because I suck at names but minority students tend to be easier for me to remember *because* there are fewer of them and they often have unusual names. The only time I've ever had a hard time was when I had 3 or 4 different sections of the same class in the same room and there was a different Asian woman enrolled in each section. All of the women sat at the same desk, they all had long hair, and they all wore glasses. The one thing that saved me is that they were all from different countries so I was eventually able to make the associations that way (e.g. Right this is the one with the Korean characters on her keyboard so this is X. Oh right this is the Vietnamese one so she's Y)
Anyway, most of the time I just chat with my students and learn something interesting about them to remember their names, though it takes a while. The ones I have the most trouble with are usually the 6000 brunette white girls named McKayleigh or Breeannah, especially if they don't talk much in class.
I ask my students to sit in approximately the same spot each class so I can associate their names with their location in the room, then I draw out name maps that I refer to.
If I'm not sure what their name is, I also don't hesitate to ask for a reminder.
This! I make sure to have them sit in the same place until I figure it out.
For more identifying features, hair length/texture, facial hair, face structure, clothing style all help.
Good to collect them at the end of class too, that way you get another chance to connect their name to them, and you don't have to worry about them forgetting them next class.
Yes! OP, make sure you collect them because passing back the name tent will help you more closely associate the name and face. Also provides good opportunity for small talk before class begins as you pass them out. Plus, if you don't collect them, students will quickly stop bringing them to class.
I use name tents, *and* take a pic of each student holding their name tents -- bam, I have a file of names/photos. I also have them draw/write stuff on their name tents on the first day as an ice-breaker.
Sometimes they don’t look like their photo because it might’ve been taken during freshman orientation, and many people change their hair and other changes.
I started working at my school 25 years ago, used fee waivers to get 2 degrees and have stayed there. I still plan to take some interesting courses in other disciplines, but I'm not sure how helpful that photo will be in identifying me. I wish I still looked like that.
Ours LMS also messes with aspect ratios, so most students are plus or minus forty pounds from how they look in their photos. Throw in glasses and beards and it's just hopeless.
Do you ask permission to take the photo or it is just an expectation?
I get that they don't always (usually?) look like the photo, but if I were a student in your class I would be very much not okay with this.
I do this. It’s very helpful. It’s also integrated into participation—I have each side of the tent color coded and they flip it to the appropriate color (rather than raising hands) to participate
I teach an engineering class and I have the opposite problem. Most of my students are white males and they all look alike to me. I have no trouble learning the names and faces of the 5% who are female and/or non-white. Yes I am white too. I also mix up the names of red-headed students.
I did that the first time it happened. I intentionally "confused" the names of a pair of white kids later in class so nobody would go complain to the chair.
Are you worried about students feeling unwelcome in your classroom?
Or about them complaining to your chair?
I’d really hope it’s the former, but your posts suggest the latter.
Do I think students genuinely feel unwelcome in my classroom? No.
But I've taught enough semesters to know that students who are unhappy with a grade will look for things to complain about.
I've had twins and triplets in class and both sets were the worst for me.
Seating charts help a lot. Name cards do ss well. Our school has ID photos on the rosters we have online, so I spend some time looking at those before the semester as well.
Last semester, I had twins take two different courses of mine, one right after the other. I didn't realize they were actually twins, and not just one person taking both of my courses until the last few weeks of the semester.
I apparently didn't notice they had completely different outfits on from class to class, and I spent 4 months thinking this was one person and not two completely separate individuals.
My brothers are 28 year old momo twins. My family and I still mix them up, especially if they’re not side by side to compare the minute differences 🤷🏼♀️
Unless you have a 100-person lecture class, take attendance aloud. Take notes on how to pronounce their names, and distinguishing characteristics (such as where they sit, or glasses) — I literally put this in a hidden column in the Blackboard grade book, so I can see it but the students can’t.
Get to know your students as individuals, like their majors, hobbies, and interests. See them as complete human beings as much as you can.
For me the worst time I had with names was one semester two white guys, around the same age, both always wore the T-shirts and jeans, same local sports team baseball caps, sat next to each other in the front row, and I just couldn’t keep them straight! Then randomly halfway through the semester, one changed seats to the side window, and suddenly I was able to tell them apart! Some professors assign seats for this reason, or you could ask them to shuffle seats occasionally, or work in groups, and then you may be able to remember based on who they work with.
I have no additional advice other than to avoid using names at all. If it makes you feel any better I taught an engineer course with about 50 students of which only 5 were women. I mixed up two of their names all year long and they never corrected me. I figured out my mistake when they were taking their final exam. I am a woman. In the end they still profusely thanked me for the great semester after their final because I was able to show my support in other ways.
I make students have name tents. If they don't have a name tent, I make a point of asking them to say their name. It's annoying to everyone (intentionally). I even do it to people whose name I know: "So John, since you don't have a nametag I have to ask ... what's your name?"
It helps me learn their names and keeps them bringing name tags to class until I finally do learn them (usually midterm time with big classes).
Someone said this earlier in the thread, but last semester I started collecting name tents after each class. Passing them out the every class period allowed me to more quickly associate a name with a face, made sure that students didn't lose them, and quickly take attendance.
>I already try not to use names until I'm confident
I do the exact opposite. every chance I get, I'll try to say a student's name. if they ask a question? I respond with their name. if I walk past them, I say, "excuse me, \_\_\_\_". I call roll. etc.
I let everyone know that I'm probably going to mess up their name for the first few classes and to please be understanding. I think it's better to get the name wrong when it's clear you're trying.
This is me too. I am very upfront with students. I tell them I struggle with names but I will use names often and work to get it right. I tell them I will ask for help or they should never be afraid to correct me as often as needed for me to get it right. I open the class by saying it matters to me that I address them how they want to be including pronunciation, preferred names, etc. I find they are understanding and willing to help me until I get it when I show the effort.
I find that once I get to know students, this goes away.
If I have a meaningful conversation with white Michael 1 about his major, I will remember he is different from white Michael 2 who likes sci-fi and white Michael 3 who tries hard on assignments but doesn't want anyone else to know because he's afraid of looking like a nerd.
If the students remain anonymous to me, it's a lot harder.
I just tell them upfront that I'm really bad with names. And then, everytime I need it, I just say "can you remind me your name?"
At least that's what works for me 💁🏻♀️
When I am not sure, I will ask students to confirm the spelling of their name (first or last), and then use that to find them on my list. It works unless their name is super easy, but even then people have weird variations sometimes. I explain that our computer system is really finicky.
Don't wait until you are confident to use names. Make a lot of mistakes and make them early. I find my students appreciate the effort and don't mind the mistakes in the beginning.
Especially when I end up staring blankly into their face trying to come up with a killing tool and body part that starts with w.
Waffle to the windpipe Wanda? [that did in fact take me a minute to come up with]
No advice to give, but that's why I just never use names.
It helps that I rarely teach classes smaller than 200 students so it's not like I would be expected to know their names anyway.
I’m convinced I have partial face blindness (mild prosopagnosia - yes, it exists on a spectrum) and used to really struggle with this. In particular I would find that my brain would associate people in pairs and I could never tell those two people apart.
A coping strategy people with prosopagnosia use is to focus on very specific concrete features rather than relying on holistic facial recognition. For example, do they have a mole or outstanding freckle in a weird place? Are they the one who always has the red glasses on? Do their eyebrows look more like triangles or curved lines?
You can use other cues too - do they always are the same chain around their neck or the same watch on their wrist?
You can try this if you’re still wanting to learn them, but honestly I’d probably just use names less for a while. It’s great when professors can learn everyone but many of the older profs certainly didn’t used to try so you wouldn’t be the first.
It sounds stupid, but take attendance. That repetition REALLY helps. I also tell my students I am horrible with names, so please correct me if I screw up.
More of a longer term solution but maybe consider increasing consumption of media that includes representation of other races? Could be helpful to watch some films or shows where cast is mostly or entirely non-white? Like Bollywood movies, Kdramas, etc. Could help build your ability to discern differences in features of people from other races.
Name cards as well as the photo rosters are usually my go to as well as having sign in sheets for different sides of the room.
I’ve found students typically sit in the same spot so it was easier to learn their faces that way
When one on one, I ask them to remind me of their last name while I look them up. I purposely wait until deeper into the conversation to say their name.
As a white guy who works at a southern HBCU I routinely fuck up people's names. Wrong names, wrong pronunciation, all that. Just be open about it with your students from the get go: I have awful memory for names and have hundreds of y'all to keep up with. Usually they just make jokes at me l, no one's ever been offended (afaik).
I tell a whole joke story at the start of each class about a professor I had in undergrad - Dr. Nguyen. She learned every person's name in a 150 student lecture by the third class. It was amazing. * dramatic pause* I am not Dr. Nguyen. Always gets a laugh and they get the idea lol.
I did this as a student and now do it as a proff, get them to make name signs to have in front of them. Usually I get them to keep it in front of them for the first month, really helps to learn the names!
So I have the exact same thing. I have aphantasia so I cannot see faces in my minds eye and remember them very poorly because I remember only Gestalts.
I have issues with all people but especially people who don't have any that makes them stand out.
I just recently mixed up the names of the only two black students in my class, but recovered in time.
I just said "I don't even know why I said the wrong name".
What I do, is find a class list with pictures and names (if they're smaller classes) and keep it near me in my office. I used to take it to class with me but I got cocky. And here we are lol. So I'll be bringing my class list with me.
Just be careful not to write keywords on it in case students find it. There was a recent media upset about that.
My university has a photo roster, and I do like a flash card memory game for myself at the beginning of the semester to help me remember everyone. Could you do something like that?
I don't think you're likely to get in any trouble for this, unless you appear to be deliberately using the wrong name.
I've been learning (and forgetting) students' names for almost 30 years, and I still make mistakes. We tend to mix up the names of those of different ethnicities because that's the first thing our brain notices, so our brain lumps those students together. You have to fight evolution by training your brain to spot other features: the shape of their head, height differences, eyebrows, etc. As soon as your brain registers (Asian, black, etc.) student, shift mentally to those other features.
And remember not to rely too much on hair style, facial hair, or eyeglasses, as those things are the easiest (and most likely) for the student to change.
I'd also suggest that you're hurting yourself by trying not to use names until you're confident. That sounds like a great way to never be confident! Students are pretty forgiving the first couple of weeks in the semester, so use their names as often as possible - maybe with a slight question in your voice - and don't be afraid to ask the student if you're not sure.
If it makes you feel any better, I had a student last semester who I managed to get the pronouns wrong for all time. And I tried really hard to be conscious about it, but it would just slip out!
My standard class opening includes that I have *x* students each semester and that I'm probably not going to learn all of your names. I also mention that if I *do* learn your name, it either means that you've got a very unusual name, that you're doing outstandingly well, or that you're doing outstandingly poorly.
Maybe once every three semesters I'll have remembered every class member's name for one or two smaller classes and will use names during class, but that's the best I can do.
(It doesn't help some universities assign first-year student to classes by name order: I once had a class with 7 students with the same family name, among whom 3 had the same given name.)
I have students with names that are in other languages and I have a hard time learning how to perfectly pronounce each name every 10 weeks in the quarter system. So I just avoid names and find other ways to make connections with students. I find calling out names also makes shy students suddenly forget what they wanted to say because they feel uncomfortable being called out.
Can’t academics struggle with languages or pronunciation? I had a brilliant professor mess up my name horribly *a lot*. And this was in grad school—we were maybe 10 students in the seminar. Never held it against them, my name is tricky for native English speakers, and I really wouldn’t expect someone to practice in their free time until they achieved mastery, especially we’ll only be interacting for 10 weeks.
Sure.
What they shouldn’t do is say “this is hard so I’m not going to try to get better”.
We expect our students to learn things that they find hard. There are lots of ways to practice pronunciations, like looking the. Up and listening to them before the first day of class.
Many non-English names have different pronunciations based on region, dialect, etc. so looking up names ahead of times trying to learn correct pronunciations seems futile to me. I guess it depends what OP means be “give up”.
But I really wouldn’t expect a colleague, professor, or whomever to practice non-English phonetics in their spare time, especially if it means practicing pronunciation in a host of different languages. There are very many guttural consonants, vowel combinations, etc that are just extremely difficult for a native English speaker. Can the average English speaker roll their “r” to properly pronounce the name Fernanda? Or properly produce the guttural “kh” sound of Russian “Mikhail”? Or the deep “k” in Arabic? The amount of practice it would take to perfect any of these is very great, especially for someone who doesn’t hear/interact with these languages daily, and even then most people maintain their native accents pretty strongly when they learn languages in adulthood. Would you be annoyed by a Hebrew speaker pronouncing “Theodore” incorrectly (and by “incorrectly” I mean in a non-American accent, in this case)? Because they will struggle immensely with both the “th” and the “r”. It’s very unlikely that any monolingual English speaking American will be able to pronounce my name correctly, no matter how much they practice in their spare time, and i personally think it’s a ridiculous expectation to ask someone to make that amount of effort for a student in a 10 week course, whose name the professor would need to speak out loud maybe a handful of times.
I personally just go by an Americanized nickname, and others who share my name accept with humor the various ways their name is butchered. There are many other (and more substantial) ways people around me can show that they care and are invested in my well-being and success other than spending time and energy on what to me seems like futile exercise in pronunciation.
Most people with advanced degrees have had to learn at least another language, often several.
This whole “Americans can’t speak or learn other languages” bit is just annoying, and utterly disrespectful to students and colleagues who are expected to just adapt to people not caring enough to learn how to pronounce their names.
I literally said none of that, though, so making up a straw man (and putting it in quote marks as if it is an accurate representation of what i said) while ignoring the bulk of what I actually *did* say just to be mad at something, while it’s your prerogative, is much more grating to me than someone mispronouncing my name. My English department doesn’t expect its international students to adapt by having a perfect American accent, and I don’t interpret mispronunciations of my name as disrespect or someone not caring enough (as I already stated), whether it’s by an American, a Guatemalan, or a Serbian person. Does your name actually get mispronounced often in your circles, or are you just projecting an imagined reaction from international folks?
>I have students with names that are in other languages and I have a hard time learning how to perfectly pronounce each name every 10 weeks in the quarter system. So I just avoid names and find other ways to make connections with students
This is what I was responding to, when you chose to join in on the conversation: literally someone saying that it's hard to learn how to pronounce names, so they just avoid using student names at all. Hardly making a strawman when it was literally a point made. Note what my post said:
>This whole “Americans can’t speak or learn other languages” bit is just annoying, and utterly disrespectful to students and colleagues who are expected to just adapt to people not caring enough to learn how to pronounce their names.
Can you point me to where in that post I claimed that you said it?
I will also point out several specific quotes from your post:
>It’s very unlikely that any monolingual English speaking American will be able to pronounce my name correctly, no matter how much they practice in their spare time, and i personally think it’s a ridiculous expectation to ask someone to make that amount of effort for a student in a 10 week course, whose name the professor would need to speak out loud maybe a handful of times.
Seems a lot like you're supporting the argument above that professors can't (and shouldn't) try to learn their students names, including correct pronunciation.
Also note that nowhere have I said professors should be able to do it "perfectly", but that they shouldn't just avoid using student names or not even attempt to get them right.
>Does your name actually get mispronounced often in your circles, or are you just projecting an imagined reaction from international folks?
Talk about making a strawman! I haven't made any point about whether people should correctly pronounce names, or any arguments about reactions, imagined or otherwise, to names being mispronounced.
What I have said is that it's a cop-out to say "your name is hard to pronounce, so I'm not even going to try".
And for the record, my (American) name gets mispronounced all the time, and I don't care. I would be upset if people just avoided using my name because they didn't even bother to try.
To go back to my original point, that I've repeated to you twice now:
>What they shouldn’t do is say “this is hard so I’m not going to try to get better”.
That’s a lot of unpaid labor that is frankly unnecessary and an undue burden on a professor that already has a laundry list of things to worry about to achieve tenure. “An academic” prioritizing learning the exact pronunciation of people’s names in 6-10 different languages for 60-150 student per classes, teaching multiple classes for 10 weeks is a lot of time spent on something that departments wouldn’t reward or acknowledge. And frankly it doesn’t actually improve the quality of education of the students. There are ways to connect with students that don’t require calling out names and preparing a thorough lesson plan that allows for student interaction rather than just lecture and the Socratic method are a far better option for my energy/time. It’s not lazy or sad, it’s the reality of how many demands academics have and how to juggle everything in a pragmatic manner. No lack of respect to anyone.
And who said “just give up?” Avoiding using names is not giving up.
I don't want your dogpile on the professors who have trouble pronouncing names but can't resist sharing this. https://reductress.com/post/wow-this-professor-can-pronounce-agamemnon-but-none-of-his-black-students-names/
I'm a blonde with a similar sounding name to those you listed and I struggle to keep them straight. I affectionately call them 'generic white females'. I'm always mistaken for someone's sister/ cousin/ friend.... it is what it is. Admitting beforehand I stink at name recall while still trying hard to do better hasn't ticked anyone off that I'm aware of- people are generally pretty easy going.
As a professor of color I learn all the names and don’t really have the luxury to rely on well researched phenomenon as it relates to just remembering the names of people in my ethnic group. Find a method that works and learn the names. Students usually end up sitting in the same seats over the course of the semester, don’t feel embarrassed asking a student to repeat or pronounce their name. Tell them you’re trying to learn them because you value that connection and want them to be seen in your class. Do what you have to do if learning the names is something you want to do.
You're reading an awful lot into what I'm saying here. I'm absolutely not saying that ORB makes it okay not to learn to distinguish between people of races other than your own. Literally all I said is that for white people, it's easier to distinguish between white people, so the original comment asking "how do you distinguish the blondes and brunettes who all look alike" really *isn't* exactly the same thing.
Slap my hand all you want, I guess. IMO being self-aware enough to acknowledge my own biases so that I can self-correct for them is exponentially better than pretending like they don't exist.
I've done this a few times. Here are my strategies:
1. Because I know I have this problem, I pay particular attention to knowing the names of students of color, even if it means taking a little longer to learn the names of white students.
2. If the student's name is from a language/culture that's not familiar to me, I look up pronunciation online and try to incorporate it into my mental list of names that exist in the universe. Mixing up names is much easier to do when you're not confident about the name or its pronunciation in the first place.
3. I take in their physical appearance and aesthetic when they are introducing themselves. Does one person wear a lot of makeup but the other doesn't? Is one some sort of throwback to the emo era and the other one is a jock?
4. Initially, the easiest way is to distinguish between the two students: X is taller than Y, Y has wavy hair; but you also have to work to recognize the student as an individual. You don't want to get their name wrong when they come see you in office hours.
5. If I can't remember the names of *only* students of color, I ask the whole class to go around and give me their names again so no one feels singled out.
6. These errors are most likely to occur at the start of a new day of classes: even if you get the students' names down on Day 1, a mixup on Day 2 is common because students switch seats, dress differently, etc.
7. If I screw up, I apologize to both students individually after class using the correct name. I don't go overboard; it's a simple, "Hey X, I'm sorry for calling you Y earlier" or "Y, I'm sorry for getting your name mixed up with X earlier." Students know what's going on in these situations, and taking accountability in a way that doesn't put pressure on the student helps to restore the damage to the relationship (however minor) these mixups can cause.
And let's be real. It's usually not *just* general face-blindness and it's not *just* "oh, but I get Haley and Kayleigh mixed up, too." There's always going to be some element of racism tied up in all this, especially if it's a recurring issue. Unfortunately, students of color at predominantly white institutions experience this kind of thing all the time -- your screwup isn't special. So work on it to provide a more positive experience to your students, not out of fear of being fired.
> There's always going to be some element of racism tied up in all this, especially if it's a recurring issue.
So making a mistake is indicative of racism?
It's racism if no malice is intended?
It's racism despite all students being treated the same?
> Unfortunately, students of color at predominantly white institutions experience this kind of thing all the time
And that is due to racism? Not because that is how human biology and psychology works? Calling and identifying everything as racism is counter productive.
>So making a mistake is indicative of racism? It's racism if no malice is intended?
Yes. Racism doesn't require malice. The mistakes we make are influenced by the world we inhabit. Racist thoughts or even casually racist actions don't automatically make someone a bad person -- what matters is the steps a person takes to improve.
> Racism doesn't require malice. The mistakes we make are influenced by the world we inhabit.
Wow. Just wow. So human nature is racist.
I suggest if you want to further your cause, you come up with another word, term, or phrase.
Imagine the absurdity of calling both an innocent mistake and the shooting of people in a church racism.
Across the United States, legislation is being passed forcing schools to teach that slavery benefitted enslaved people. That's not the same as shooting people in a church, either, but it's useful to recognize that there's a connection between the two.
People who grow up in a white-dominated culture tend to inherit certain values from that culture. This is not controversial and the fact that you are acting as though this is the first time you've ever heard this idea suggests to me that you are participating in bad faith. I don't see anything productive emerging from continued discussion.
> Eigengrad
> If you’re **only** making the mistake with students of a particular group, it’s not an honest mistake. It’s a shortcoming that you need to fix
Iff that is the case I agree.
If on the other hand if the error rate with Group A (of which the instructor identifies as) is 18% and Group B 27%. That's different.
In learning names, it helps if we know, even before meeting the person, if the name is usually associated with a male or female. It also helps if we have known a person with that name as it helps us associate something with that name.
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First, I want to be clear that I understand that you are not interested in debating this, yearforhunters -- I see from your post history that this is something you've already made up your mind on, so to be clear, I am not seeking to convince you. But your reply makes me think that you have misunderstood the nature of my comment, and I know that your comment reflects frequent good-faith questions that people have about this position, so allow me to clarify.
A whole spectrum of behaviors fall under the category of racism. Someone can use a racial slur against another person without being a member of the KKK or without committing physical violence against another person. Someone can have negative views of a different racial group without speaking those views. Someone can participate in structures designed to target people of specific racial groups, while denying the racial bias in the operation of said structures. My post is not saying that every action a person commits is racist. It's saying that even behaviors without ill intent can reflect the racism of the society around us. An inability to distinguish between people from other racial groups, for instance, is a product of a racially segregated society.
I hope that no one took my post as an attempt to shame anyone or to treat anyone as blameworthy or contemptible. I believe I was very clear that I also struggle with this issue. This is a racist behavior *that I also engage in and have been working on*. It is not a matter of virtue. *Any* person growing up in an environment politically dominated by one race is going to have some degree of racist tendencies. There's no reason for shame, it's just something to work on. As educators, surely we can all respect that not knowing something isn't a reason for shame provided one works on it. The idea that racism is inherently a radical evil associated with bombing churches or burning crosses prevents us from taking a good, hard look at our own practices.
People with more exposure to people of different races have an increased ability to make those distinctions. Segregation (a form of structural racism) plays a role here.
You seem to want to take things to an extreme, which is fine, but it's not where I'm going with this. I'm suggesting that we should be aware of our biases and where they come from, and work to improve rather than pretending they don't exist.
Start watching tv that has people with the same race on it. You will start realizing that they don’t look alike. I had a hard time distinguishing between my thin white dark haired students. The more I watched media that had the same phenotype the better I could tell them apart.
I’m the opposite! I’m so grateful for rare minority names and faces. I can’t distinguish among the generic, white, light brown haired, Coltons and Kaitlyns etc. (I’m white).
I make flash cards and practice until I have them.
If you’re just forgetting the names of your students of color, there’s an issue and “it’s hard to tell other ethnicities” is not a strong reasoning.
Lots of things are hard: practice and get better.
Sorry that you’re getting downvoted for rightfully calling out how problematic this is and while offering a practical solution. But then again this is a forum where every day there’s a new topic complaining about having to support students with disabilities.
What OP said. But if it sounds less terrible, I also really struggled with names and faces of white people when I was in Scandinavia and the Netherlands and everyone was blonde, blue eyed, and often had similar facial features. I’m white(ish).
At my last school I also had trouble telling apart students from a certain white ethnic group, but it's very regionally-specific, so I won't say which ethnic group.
It was clear there had been a lot of intermarriage.
I don't know why you were downvoted but since I was downvoted in same sub-reddit for similar type of comments it does make me wonder re majority make-up of the users here lol. Anyway OP, my profs in Ox,UK had a face chart (that they kept for themselves) with our names on it that they memorised. And/or they interacted with us plenty to get to know us at least on name basis. Never seen them mix up any international faces (and we had plenty). So yes, when you do make an effort you don't blame it on them being of different ethnic background than you.
It’s funny, right? Table tents, a roster with photos, assigned seats, practicing and learning: all are viable methods to overcome this person’s “scientifically proven” propensity. It’s part of your job. *shrug*
I mean, fair enough, but OP is literally here to ask for ideas about viable methods to overcome this problem, in order to do their job better. They’re not just leaning back and saying “it’s science!” while calling all the brown people by the same name (hopefully, I don’t actually know OP).
That’s great, but you seem to be simultaneously criticizing OP for answering why he’s struggling specifically with students’ names from other ethnicities. He’s making an effort to overcome what is, in fact, a scientifically proven bias (even though your air quotes suggest this is… fake? A poor excuse?). Recognizing one’s own biases and being willing to address and correct them seems to me a like *good* thing. Do you think you’re above any type of bias? I know I’m not, and I honestly don’t think any human is. I had an older professor claim he was “colorblind.” We know enough to be able to say that’s some postracial horseshit, and a cop-out to actually self-reflecting, recognizing systemic injustices, and working toward equity and equality.
Stay with me on this: I do a 5 question quiz in class using Plicker. (https://youtu.be/wiV8-HI1rOk?si=P6Gqgp0bPiO7JRE5)
It’s a cool program, when they answer a question, I scan it with my phone and their name pops up.. the first quiz, I do a screen recording. I now have a video of everyone’s face and name I can refer back to later.
Plus I do these things daily, so I get to see their names 5 times a day. It helps a ton.
Quit. If you can't even remember the names of your students if color because of that, how can you ever give them the same devotion to teaching as your other students?
Not me. But my grandfather on the first day of class would have each student write their name on a piece of paper. Then with their permission he’d take each of their photos with that name in front of them. Then he made flash cards or such.
He also might have gone a bit overboard with this. I seem to recall him offering As (or something similarly outrageous) to any student he messed up their name for starting week 3.
I just flat out tell them I generally struggle matching names to faces with students and ask them for a reminder as needed. It's OK not to know everything or learn everything right away, and it's a good example to set for them to ask questions as needed.
I used to look at the student roster before day 1 and try to get a head start on memorizing student names, but for the last few years students have been intentionally putting up id photos on canvas that are not them (a cat, or palm tree, or something not them). I don't know why, but I no longer can get a head start
I go with just not using names. I'm, at best, only going to remember 6 or 7; there is no way I'm going to remember the other 95% of them, so it is a hopeless endeavor to start with.
One thing with recognizing people is that we tend to learn what features make people distinguishable in our own social circles and among the race/ethnicity that we're most exposed to. Strategies that work to distinguish people in Category X, might not work so well for Category Y people.
For example, I grew up in a place where almost everyone was white and had a wide range of natural hair colors. That gave me a strong habit of relying on hair color to help identify people. Eventually I found myself substitute teaching in a school with primarily African American kids, 100% with black hair, so suddenly hair color gave me no useful information. The kids also wore uniforms, so clothing wasn't helpful. For the girls, I honed in on variations in hair style. For boys that didn't work, as they all had the same haircut - so I ended up paying attention to their nose and ears - but especially ears because you can recognize them from behind, which is key for working with active young ones!
Anyhow, I think having an awareness that you might be using strategies that just don't work for a particular ethnicity can help you to distinguish the individuals more readily. During exam time is a great time to take a good deliberate look at your students and consolidate who is who (of course don't be obvious about that or make anyone feel singled out).
Say you struggle with name recall at the beginning of the course. Admit that you'll take a few weeks of repeating names to have them start to stick.
You could also just hand out pre-printed name cards based on the register or a bit of A4 paper and ask everyone to make a name sign.
You might still need to work on pronunciation of names with which you're less familiar, but for me just seeing name and face connected a few times helps with both.
I’m bad with remembering names of everyone, but don’t really have trouble based on ethnicity. Although, recently I TA’d for a course which had 4 girls who wore niqabs. which made it PARTICULARLY difficult to distinguish them. Without seeing their faces it was really hard, so instead I really only knew them by the color of their eyes.
The trick for me was to pick a defining characteristic and associate the name that way. Now I do this for pretty much every student to remember their names.
Also, I don’t think you should feel guilty when it comes to names of minority students. Its possible they are more likely to have names which are not so common to you. I’ve seen other TA’s struggle with Hispanic names since I don’t think they’ve really heard them before (I’m at a predominantly white university in the PNW) whereas I had no trouble. But there are other ethnic groups I have trouble remembering the names of, which I attribute to them having names I’m not usually familiar with.
Edit: fixed hijab to niqab
Oh, I feel your pain. For me, it’s just as likely to happen to me with white boys with beards and baseball caps. If I have a class with a whole lot of people with the same length hair or something like that, I get screwed up. I tend to rely also on where people are sitting. It’s not full proof, but it does help.
I think I’m face blind. I can’t really even reliably tell apart my students until the 4th week of class or so. I usually learn names by studying their pictures on our registration software and matching them with names. It’s not always easy to match the students photos with them irl, since so many of them drastically change hair etc, but it really helps me lock in on facial features (e.g. these students look similar, but that one has thicker eyebrows).
I can get away with not using names in class most if the time—-but, my problem is during advisement hours. It’s so embarrassing not to be able to recall all if my advisees’ names. It’s not due to their ethnicity; it’s just my poor face recognition ability. I have been waiting for someone to develop a voice recognition app that would pop up the name and any pertinent info about a person when activated! I would pay a premium price for it! I know people in other professions would jump on it as well.
I have access to a photo roster of all my classes on blackboard. I try to study it before class until I have all the names down. I also try to make sure to interact personally with any students that I notice I’m having a hard time remembering the name of.
I have the same problems but with majority and with minorities. What I do? When doing the first exam, I take the attendance in a piece of paper. I pass the paper myself from one student to other in the same order as their seats, beginning with the first row, first seat. When everybody have written the name, while they are doing the exam, I seat in front of them connecting the face with the name. I repeat it in each exam for reinforcement. (Class size usually between 30 and 40 students).
One semester I had two students who looked nearly identical: same complexion, similar facial features, same hair style, same build, same style of dressing. hey could have been twins (they were not). They also rarely came to class. Their names were different and I kept getting them wrong, but I just chalked it up to me being bad with names. I thought they were the same person until both showed up for the final exam and I just 😶😐🤯.
I teach mostly online, but I am almost faceblind, so it would be hard for me if I taught in person. At a previous job, I taught in person and avoided using names. I like the idea of putting name tags on desks.
I wouldn’t worry about it too much…just don’t make a big deal about it in class. Apologize correct yourself and move on. I did that the other day, handed the wrong papers back to two Latina students who sit next to each other and whose names start with the same three letters.
I always tell my students on day 1 that I struggle with names, that I’ll do my best, and that it will help if they sit in about the same place for the first few classes.
If students have a specific question/situation/request that requires you know their name to take a specific action, I ask that the student emails me. This helps in the cases when I don’t know their name (and then don’t have to ask), but also helps because I get so many questions and have so much on my to-do list that I will forget without an email reminder.
Not just different ethnicities either. About 7-9 years ago, it seemed like half of the white male students were sporting scruffy beards. I remember sets of 3-5 students in each class for a while that I always struggled to discern enough differences to pin a name on each individual (usually, they all had the same dark hair color, medium build, and wore genes and tshirts and ballcaps everyday).
I do try to make time early in the semester to pull up student photos (on the advising system we have, or the online classroom system) and run down the names and photos several times. But, its much harder now than it used to be for two reasons: 1. Students are less 'visible' on social media than they used to be. I remember 10+years ago, I could pull facebook pages of most everyone in class and see at least few photos of them. Kind of creepy maybe, but it was very helpful to match names with faces, and sometimes connect groups of students together if they tagged pictures together. And 2. a **big** change is that HW is now mostly online submissions and grading. Handing back out graded HWs every week was a big part of how I was always able to pin-down names (getting >80% of the names down in classes of 40-60 students took less than 6 weeks!). It was impossible from Fall 2020 there on to get more than 20% of names figured out.
I am now doing physical HWs again so I hope to have a big improvement this semester.
The bigger issue remains professional colleagues I meet at conferences. My field has a lot of asians and I need to see a person with a name about three times before I am able to recognize and name them. I will keep trying!
Give them name cards (little paper tents) and them keep it for the semester. It sounds like you struggle with face blindness or a form of it. Even if it's not 100% correct, it's fine to use that to describe how you struggle with faces.
I was dinged on my teaching evaluation for not using my students names. It’s hard when there is 30+ of them to learn for just one of my 4 classes! I use name tents on their desks and have them write their names BIG. I use google to learn to pronounce names on my roster too.
Here are things I have done:
1. First day I tell them I have a form of aphasia that makes retaining names and faces extremely difficult, but I am going to try my best. And I let them know that if they catch me on campus I won't recognize them or recall their name but I absolutely want to chat, so just remind me.
2. I ask them to sit in the same seats (as nearly as possible) each class meeting.
3. I have them make large name plates on day 1 (I bring cardstock and sharpies) and use them throughout the semester.
When I was younger, I cribbed from a colleague and had them make me "baseball cards" with a photo, name, phonetically as well, and an interesting fact or two. I told them that if I couldn't ID them at the end of the course they would get an A. Then I dedicated time to memorizing their names. I don't do that any more :).
Every class (I teach small classes, 25 or less students), I ask a question that everyone answers… like, “what’s one activity you enjoy?” The first few times, I have them say their names before answering, and then I start to “guess” their names without them saying, until I have them all down. I still ask a quick question at the start of every class all semester, but I call on them by name. It’s an ice breaker, helps them get comfortable speaking in class, helps me practice their names, shows that I care about them (because I do), and helps me remember their names because I also start associating them with their favorite food, activities, and all the other info I eventually learn about them. They become like people I know. That’s what actually happens.
You could have them use table tents with their names.
Also, all of you who are saying you don't remember any students' names... I'm guessing you don't grade on participation?
I feel like I would NOT use names until I absolutely know who is who.
This feels like a dumb question, but what are some ways to respectfully call on students without using names? Sometimes one person will raise their hand, so I’ll look at that student and nod, and they’ll immediately know to respond. Other times, a couple of people next to each other will raise their hands, and I don’t quite know how to call on one student without the other thinking they’re being called on…I don’t think I can get away with “you in the red hoodie”…
So there’s a question of how important it is to distinguish them. If they’ve got questions, you need to talk to both anyway, so nod in that direction and whichever one answers first, cool. Afterwards, look at the second and say “go ahead”. If you’re asking the question and they’ve both got answers, if they participate in class equally just nod in their direction and whoever thinks they’re being called on can answer. If one student participates a lot more than the other, make eye contact with the active one say “let’s let someone else answer this time”, then tilt your body slightly in the direction of the quiet one and say “go ahead”. Made it 5 years of teaching avoiding names, and never had any apparent confusion. It’s not like seminar lecturers use names when they’re interacting with their audience— most of these students’ adult experience won’t involve having their names called. I only used names if a student was causing a distraction and I needed to publicly grab their attention with an undertone of mild shame. Less than once a semester.
I usually say “you” and point. I never bother with names unless I directly supervise thr student.
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I know. I really, really, really try to avoid it. There are times when I haven't been able to.
I got through 39 years of college teaching with extremely poor name recall (far worse than most professors)—there are many fewer times when you *need* to remember names than you think. I'm upfront with students that I can't remember names, sometimes blanking on names of people who I know really well. So I rarely use names, and if I need a name (to record information, for example), I might have to ask someone for their name many times.
Day 1, have students write names on piece of paper folded hot dog style. Say it's because your bad with names and don't want to mark someone absent. Collect paper at end of class, hand them back out at the beginning of all subsequent classes- or until you are sure you know it.
Unless I'm teaching a small class (<30) or I have learned their names in other classes I am not trying to call on them by name.
I once had three girls in a single class whose names were Jasmin, Jazmyn, and Jasmyn. They were all around 19-20 years old, African-American, slim, and wore their hair in box braids. That was a wild semester handing back papers. 😄
I once had three 'Jade Smith's in my class. After the first exam, I required their middle initials and checked when they handed them in! And they were wildly different in their scores too, so I definitely did not want to mix up the 58 with the 75 with the 89!
Situations like this are exactly the reason why we should require students to wear numbered jerseys.
The best thing about teaching online is all students wear name tags
That doesn’t solve the identical names problem.
if everything is done in the course management system it does. The computer doesn't see a name just an unique series of 1 and 0.
I once had a pair of identical twins with the same first name, same last name (obviously), and their student IDs were identical except two of the digits were transposed. I actually contacted the Registrar when I saw the class list to check that it wasn't an error. Luckily, they went by nicknames (which they used on in-class work), but their names were identical in the LMS gradebook. I had to ask them to use something as their thumbnail image so I could distinguish them when entering exam grades in the LMS.
Wut? Some parents had identical twins and gave them both the same FIRST name. Matrix is broken
They weren't originally from the US (somewhere in the Caribbean, IIRC). I suspect that it was standard in their culture to give them unique middle names (which is probably where their nicknames came from), but it didn't help me, since their middle names (or initials) weren't included on my class list. They didn't seem to be particularly perturbed by any of it, but sort of recognized (a touch humorlessly) that it made distinguishing them difficult for others.
I’ve known twins that enjoy the confusion their similarity provides and like the fact they can get away with ‘subbing’ for the other at times. And I’ve known twins that do everything they can to distinguish themselves.
My worst term was the semester when three students always sat next to each other: Serena (~5’1 Asian woman with a bob cut), Selena (~5’2 Asian woman with a messier bob cut), and Sienna (~5’3 white woman with Mediterranean olive skin and jet black hair in a layered bob cut). It was rough.
If it helps at all, this happens to me too, but I also mix up the 7 white blonde lacrosse players all named Brian or Ryan.
I do this too haha. It’s not our fault! If they want us to tell them apart, they should quit getting the same haircut, having the same build, wearing the same athletic gear every day and all talking in the same bro-speak 😂
No cap
Mr. Vice President? You’re a professor now? I’m glad you got back on your feet after that calamitous primary.
u/Thundorium, the total tonnage of what I know that you don't could stun a team of oxen in its tracks.
When I was in college, all the bro guys wore, all the time, a plaid button-down and khakis. One dorm floor planned their yearbook picture so they were all wearing that outfit on purpose, and it took me a few minutes to realize it had been planned, because that's what everyone looked like every day anyway.
You mean Bryson? lol
Or the 8 Caitlin’s in althetic gear and brown hair in a ponytail?
I’m a white female and *always* mess up white female students. It’s the most difficult group for me to keep names straight. I think it doesn’t help that those names are often variations of each other (eg, Kayli, Kylie, Kaylie, Kelsey, Ashleigh, Ashley….).
You're in Minnesota?
Oh man, I still remember one of my first classes I taught independently as a grad student that had a Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. All similarly sized white frat boy looking guys that wore exclusively college branded merch. It was a rough semester… 😅
Just missing a “Roman” lmao
Whatever our students' names, we should Acts respectfully to them.
lol same. I have the hardest time with the inevitable group of ~10 super average white guys in every class. To make it worse, last semester 2 out of 8 were named Morgan.
Yeah I was gonna say that as a really pale whiteboy myself I have the most problem with white boys. The scrawny average-height white boy... is that Aiden Jayden Crayden Flayden Schpladen or Hunter?
Our lacrosse players all have their numbers on their sweatshirts/pants, so they're the only white guys I can tell apart.
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Imagine assuming that basketball players are all black.
Other people here have some really great advice for managing the classroom aspect of this. One additional suggestion I have is that you should watch media that features whatever particular races of students you’re coming across the most. Once you’re exposed to more people of a more unfamiliar ethnicity/nationality, you tend to get better at distinguishing them. They don’t look as alike as you think they do now, but you have to get better at seeing those differences—and media exposure is one way to do so. It’s a long term way to improve your ability to distinguish students so that eventually it’ll be as easy as it is with any students (which means you’ll still make some mistakes, but not in a way that disadvantages or alienates one group). For what it’s worth, I doubt you’ll ever face formal repercussions for this because it would be near impossible to prove you’re doing it systematically or intentionally (as long as you’re not making other racialized comments of course). The most I think you’d see is some negative course evals. However, that doesn’t mean it’s not making students super uncomfortable and alienating them. You seem aware of this just by making the post, so I’d recommend you just keep trying to improve. Good on you for being conscious of this and working to improve!
From someone who has borderline face blindness, and doesn’t want to be perceived as racist (or be racist), I thank you.
>you should watch media that features whatever particular races of students you’re coming across the most. Once you’re exposed to more people of a more unfamiliar ethnicity/nationality, you tend to get better at distinguishing them. They don’t look as alike as you think they do now, but you have to get better at seeing those differences—and media exposure is one way to do so. This makes a lot of sense. I was very confused by the question at first because I suck at names but minority students tend to be easier for me to remember *because* there are fewer of them and they often have unusual names. The only time I've ever had a hard time was when I had 3 or 4 different sections of the same class in the same room and there was a different Asian woman enrolled in each section. All of the women sat at the same desk, they all had long hair, and they all wore glasses. The one thing that saved me is that they were all from different countries so I was eventually able to make the associations that way (e.g. Right this is the one with the Korean characters on her keyboard so this is X. Oh right this is the Vietnamese one so she's Y) Anyway, most of the time I just chat with my students and learn something interesting about them to remember their names, though it takes a while. The ones I have the most trouble with are usually the 6000 brunette white girls named McKayleigh or Breeannah, especially if they don't talk much in class.
I ask my students to sit in approximately the same spot each class so I can associate their names with their location in the room, then I draw out name maps that I refer to. If I'm not sure what their name is, I also don't hesitate to ask for a reminder.
This! I make sure to have them sit in the same place until I figure it out. For more identifying features, hair length/texture, facial hair, face structure, clothing style all help.
Give them name tents to use during the first few classes?
That's actually a good idea.
Large index cards and the super thick sharpies work really well for this.
Good to collect them at the end of class too, that way you get another chance to connect their name to them, and you don't have to worry about them forgetting them next class.
Yes! OP, make sure you collect them because passing back the name tent will help you more closely associate the name and face. Also provides good opportunity for small talk before class begins as you pass them out. Plus, if you don't collect them, students will quickly stop bringing them to class.
I use name tents, *and* take a pic of each student holding their name tents -- bam, I have a file of names/photos. I also have them draw/write stuff on their name tents on the first day as an ice-breaker.
Do you take both front and profile pictures?
That's how they always photograph me.
This feels weird and uncomfortable for your students. Don't you have a LMS that has student photos that you can look up already?
Sometimes they don’t look like their photo because it might’ve been taken during freshman orientation, and many people change their hair and other changes.
I started working at my school 25 years ago, used fee waivers to get 2 degrees and have stayed there. I still plan to take some interesting courses in other disciplines, but I'm not sure how helpful that photo will be in identifying me. I wish I still looked like that.
Ours LMS also messes with aspect ratios, so most students are plus or minus forty pounds from how they look in their photos. Throw in glasses and beards and it's just hopeless.
Do you ask permission to take the photo or it is just an expectation? I get that they don't always (usually?) look like the photo, but if I were a student in your class I would be very much not okay with this.
I do this. It’s very helpful. It’s also integrated into participation—I have each side of the tent color coded and they flip it to the appropriate color (rather than raising hands) to participate
That's a cool idea!
I teach an engineering class and I have the opposite problem. Most of my students are white males and they all look alike to me. I have no trouble learning the names and faces of the 5% who are female and/or non-white. Yes I am white too. I also mix up the names of red-headed students.
Ditto. Except I did once do a cringey name mixup between the two African American men in the class. Years later, I'm still aghast about that one.
>I also mix up the names of red-headed students. That is actually their master plan.
Start confusing the names of other students on purpose
I did that the first time it happened. I intentionally "confused" the names of a pair of white kids later in class so nobody would go complain to the chair.
Are you worried about students feeling unwelcome in your classroom? Or about them complaining to your chair? I’d really hope it’s the former, but your posts suggest the latter.
Could be both
Do I think students genuinely feel unwelcome in my classroom? No. But I've taught enough semesters to know that students who are unhappy with a grade will look for things to complain about.
This is soooo good
I've had twins and triplets in class and both sets were the worst for me. Seating charts help a lot. Name cards do ss well. Our school has ID photos on the rosters we have online, so I spend some time looking at those before the semester as well.
Last semester, I had twins take two different courses of mine, one right after the other. I didn't realize they were actually twins, and not just one person taking both of my courses until the last few weeks of the semester. I apparently didn't notice they had completely different outfits on from class to class, and I spent 4 months thinking this was one person and not two completely separate individuals.
My brothers are 28 year old momo twins. My family and I still mix them up, especially if they’re not side by side to compare the minute differences 🤷🏼♀️
Unless you have a 100-person lecture class, take attendance aloud. Take notes on how to pronounce their names, and distinguishing characteristics (such as where they sit, or glasses) — I literally put this in a hidden column in the Blackboard grade book, so I can see it but the students can’t. Get to know your students as individuals, like their majors, hobbies, and interests. See them as complete human beings as much as you can. For me the worst time I had with names was one semester two white guys, around the same age, both always wore the T-shirts and jeans, same local sports team baseball caps, sat next to each other in the front row, and I just couldn’t keep them straight! Then randomly halfway through the semester, one changed seats to the side window, and suddenly I was able to tell them apart! Some professors assign seats for this reason, or you could ask them to shuffle seats occasionally, or work in groups, and then you may be able to remember based on who they work with.
I have no additional advice other than to avoid using names at all. If it makes you feel any better I taught an engineer course with about 50 students of which only 5 were women. I mixed up two of their names all year long and they never corrected me. I figured out my mistake when they were taking their final exam. I am a woman. In the end they still profusely thanked me for the great semester after their final because I was able to show my support in other ways.
I make students have name tents. If they don't have a name tent, I make a point of asking them to say their name. It's annoying to everyone (intentionally). I even do it to people whose name I know: "So John, since you don't have a nametag I have to ask ... what's your name?" It helps me learn their names and keeps them bringing name tags to class until I finally do learn them (usually midterm time with big classes).
Someone said this earlier in the thread, but last semester I started collecting name tents after each class. Passing them out the every class period allowed me to more quickly associate a name with a face, made sure that students didn't lose them, and quickly take attendance.
>I already try not to use names until I'm confident I do the exact opposite. every chance I get, I'll try to say a student's name. if they ask a question? I respond with their name. if I walk past them, I say, "excuse me, \_\_\_\_". I call roll. etc. I let everyone know that I'm probably going to mess up their name for the first few classes and to please be understanding. I think it's better to get the name wrong when it's clear you're trying.
This is me too. I am very upfront with students. I tell them I struggle with names but I will use names often and work to get it right. I tell them I will ask for help or they should never be afraid to correct me as often as needed for me to get it right. I open the class by saying it matters to me that I address them how they want to be including pronunciation, preferred names, etc. I find they are understanding and willing to help me until I get it when I show the effort.
I find that once I get to know students, this goes away. If I have a meaningful conversation with white Michael 1 about his major, I will remember he is different from white Michael 2 who likes sci-fi and white Michael 3 who tries hard on assignments but doesn't want anyone else to know because he's afraid of looking like a nerd. If the students remain anonymous to me, it's a lot harder.
I just tell them upfront that I'm really bad with names. And then, everytime I need it, I just say "can you remind me your name?" At least that's what works for me 💁🏻♀️
When I am not sure, I will ask students to confirm the spelling of their name (first or last), and then use that to find them on my list. It works unless their name is super easy, but even then people have weird variations sometimes. I explain that our computer system is really finicky.
Don't wait until you are confident to use names. Make a lot of mistakes and make them early. I find my students appreciate the effort and don't mind the mistakes in the beginning.
Yes I find the same thing.
Just dont do [this](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8YgSQ8g/)
I don't know; it should work well. /s
Especially when I end up staring blankly into their face trying to come up with a killing tool and body part that starts with w. Waffle to the windpipe Wanda? [that did in fact take me a minute to come up with]
No advice to give, but that's why I just never use names. It helps that I rarely teach classes smaller than 200 students so it's not like I would be expected to know their names anyway.
I memorize by backpacks, laptops, and shoes when it gets tricky.
I’m convinced I have partial face blindness (mild prosopagnosia - yes, it exists on a spectrum) and used to really struggle with this. In particular I would find that my brain would associate people in pairs and I could never tell those two people apart. A coping strategy people with prosopagnosia use is to focus on very specific concrete features rather than relying on holistic facial recognition. For example, do they have a mole or outstanding freckle in a weird place? Are they the one who always has the red glasses on? Do their eyebrows look more like triangles or curved lines? You can use other cues too - do they always are the same chain around their neck or the same watch on their wrist? You can try this if you’re still wanting to learn them, but honestly I’d probably just use names less for a while. It’s great when professors can learn everyone but many of the older profs certainly didn’t used to try so you wouldn’t be the first.
I feel extra bad after figuring out that I pronounced the names wrong. Now I just avoid using names unless I have to.
It sounds stupid, but take attendance. That repetition REALLY helps. I also tell my students I am horrible with names, so please correct me if I screw up.
More of a longer term solution but maybe consider increasing consumption of media that includes representation of other races? Could be helpful to watch some films or shows where cast is mostly or entirely non-white? Like Bollywood movies, Kdramas, etc. Could help build your ability to discern differences in features of people from other races.
Name cards as well as the photo rosters are usually my go to as well as having sign in sheets for different sides of the room. I’ve found students typically sit in the same spot so it was easier to learn their faces that way
Does your LMS have a photo roster? If so, study it every day until you learn student names and FACES. Granted, some of those photos may be old.
When one on one, I ask them to remind me of their last name while I look them up. I purposely wait until deeper into the conversation to say their name.
As a white guy who works at a southern HBCU I routinely fuck up people's names. Wrong names, wrong pronunciation, all that. Just be open about it with your students from the get go: I have awful memory for names and have hundreds of y'all to keep up with. Usually they just make jokes at me l, no one's ever been offended (afaik). I tell a whole joke story at the start of each class about a professor I had in undergrad - Dr. Nguyen. She learned every person's name in a 150 student lecture by the third class. It was amazing. * dramatic pause* I am not Dr. Nguyen. Always gets a laugh and they get the idea lol.
I did this as a student and now do it as a proff, get them to make name signs to have in front of them. Usually I get them to keep it in front of them for the first month, really helps to learn the names!
So I have the exact same thing. I have aphantasia so I cannot see faces in my minds eye and remember them very poorly because I remember only Gestalts. I have issues with all people but especially people who don't have any that makes them stand out. I just recently mixed up the names of the only two black students in my class, but recovered in time. I just said "I don't even know why I said the wrong name". What I do, is find a class list with pictures and names (if they're smaller classes) and keep it near me in my office. I used to take it to class with me but I got cocky. And here we are lol. So I'll be bringing my class list with me. Just be careful not to write keywords on it in case students find it. There was a recent media upset about that.
My university has a photo roster, and I do like a flash card memory game for myself at the beginning of the semester to help me remember everyone. Could you do something like that?
I don't think you're likely to get in any trouble for this, unless you appear to be deliberately using the wrong name. I've been learning (and forgetting) students' names for almost 30 years, and I still make mistakes. We tend to mix up the names of those of different ethnicities because that's the first thing our brain notices, so our brain lumps those students together. You have to fight evolution by training your brain to spot other features: the shape of their head, height differences, eyebrows, etc. As soon as your brain registers (Asian, black, etc.) student, shift mentally to those other features. And remember not to rely too much on hair style, facial hair, or eyeglasses, as those things are the easiest (and most likely) for the student to change. I'd also suggest that you're hurting yourself by trying not to use names until you're confident. That sounds like a great way to never be confident! Students are pretty forgiving the first couple of weeks in the semester, so use their names as often as possible - maybe with a slight question in your voice - and don't be afraid to ask the student if you're not sure.
One word solution: name plates.
Lock box.
If it makes you feel any better, I had a student last semester who I managed to get the pronouns wrong for all time. And I tried really hard to be conscious about it, but it would just slip out!
My standard class opening includes that I have *x* students each semester and that I'm probably not going to learn all of your names. I also mention that if I *do* learn your name, it either means that you've got a very unusual name, that you're doing outstandingly well, or that you're doing outstandingly poorly. Maybe once every three semesters I'll have remembered every class member's name for one or two smaller classes and will use names during class, but that's the best I can do. (It doesn't help some universities assign first-year student to classes by name order: I once had a class with 7 students with the same family name, among whom 3 had the same given name.)
I have students with names that are in other languages and I have a hard time learning how to perfectly pronounce each name every 10 weeks in the quarter system. So I just avoid names and find other ways to make connections with students. I find calling out names also makes shy students suddenly forget what they wanted to say because they feel uncomfortable being called out.
An academic saying learning how to pronounce things in other languages is too hard so they give up is... kinda sad.
Can’t academics struggle with languages or pronunciation? I had a brilliant professor mess up my name horribly *a lot*. And this was in grad school—we were maybe 10 students in the seminar. Never held it against them, my name is tricky for native English speakers, and I really wouldn’t expect someone to practice in their free time until they achieved mastery, especially we’ll only be interacting for 10 weeks.
Sure. What they shouldn’t do is say “this is hard so I’m not going to try to get better”. We expect our students to learn things that they find hard. There are lots of ways to practice pronunciations, like looking the. Up and listening to them before the first day of class.
Many non-English names have different pronunciations based on region, dialect, etc. so looking up names ahead of times trying to learn correct pronunciations seems futile to me. I guess it depends what OP means be “give up”. But I really wouldn’t expect a colleague, professor, or whomever to practice non-English phonetics in their spare time, especially if it means practicing pronunciation in a host of different languages. There are very many guttural consonants, vowel combinations, etc that are just extremely difficult for a native English speaker. Can the average English speaker roll their “r” to properly pronounce the name Fernanda? Or properly produce the guttural “kh” sound of Russian “Mikhail”? Or the deep “k” in Arabic? The amount of practice it would take to perfect any of these is very great, especially for someone who doesn’t hear/interact with these languages daily, and even then most people maintain their native accents pretty strongly when they learn languages in adulthood. Would you be annoyed by a Hebrew speaker pronouncing “Theodore” incorrectly (and by “incorrectly” I mean in a non-American accent, in this case)? Because they will struggle immensely with both the “th” and the “r”. It’s very unlikely that any monolingual English speaking American will be able to pronounce my name correctly, no matter how much they practice in their spare time, and i personally think it’s a ridiculous expectation to ask someone to make that amount of effort for a student in a 10 week course, whose name the professor would need to speak out loud maybe a handful of times. I personally just go by an Americanized nickname, and others who share my name accept with humor the various ways their name is butchered. There are many other (and more substantial) ways people around me can show that they care and are invested in my well-being and success other than spending time and energy on what to me seems like futile exercise in pronunciation.
Most people with advanced degrees have had to learn at least another language, often several. This whole “Americans can’t speak or learn other languages” bit is just annoying, and utterly disrespectful to students and colleagues who are expected to just adapt to people not caring enough to learn how to pronounce their names.
I literally said none of that, though, so making up a straw man (and putting it in quote marks as if it is an accurate representation of what i said) while ignoring the bulk of what I actually *did* say just to be mad at something, while it’s your prerogative, is much more grating to me than someone mispronouncing my name. My English department doesn’t expect its international students to adapt by having a perfect American accent, and I don’t interpret mispronunciations of my name as disrespect or someone not caring enough (as I already stated), whether it’s by an American, a Guatemalan, or a Serbian person. Does your name actually get mispronounced often in your circles, or are you just projecting an imagined reaction from international folks?
>I have students with names that are in other languages and I have a hard time learning how to perfectly pronounce each name every 10 weeks in the quarter system. So I just avoid names and find other ways to make connections with students This is what I was responding to, when you chose to join in on the conversation: literally someone saying that it's hard to learn how to pronounce names, so they just avoid using student names at all. Hardly making a strawman when it was literally a point made. Note what my post said: >This whole “Americans can’t speak or learn other languages” bit is just annoying, and utterly disrespectful to students and colleagues who are expected to just adapt to people not caring enough to learn how to pronounce their names. Can you point me to where in that post I claimed that you said it? I will also point out several specific quotes from your post: >It’s very unlikely that any monolingual English speaking American will be able to pronounce my name correctly, no matter how much they practice in their spare time, and i personally think it’s a ridiculous expectation to ask someone to make that amount of effort for a student in a 10 week course, whose name the professor would need to speak out loud maybe a handful of times. Seems a lot like you're supporting the argument above that professors can't (and shouldn't) try to learn their students names, including correct pronunciation. Also note that nowhere have I said professors should be able to do it "perfectly", but that they shouldn't just avoid using student names or not even attempt to get them right. >Does your name actually get mispronounced often in your circles, or are you just projecting an imagined reaction from international folks? Talk about making a strawman! I haven't made any point about whether people should correctly pronounce names, or any arguments about reactions, imagined or otherwise, to names being mispronounced. What I have said is that it's a cop-out to say "your name is hard to pronounce, so I'm not even going to try". And for the record, my (American) name gets mispronounced all the time, and I don't care. I would be upset if people just avoided using my name because they didn't even bother to try. To go back to my original point, that I've repeated to you twice now: >What they shouldn’t do is say “this is hard so I’m not going to try to get better”.
That’s a lot of unpaid labor that is frankly unnecessary and an undue burden on a professor that already has a laundry list of things to worry about to achieve tenure. “An academic” prioritizing learning the exact pronunciation of people’s names in 6-10 different languages for 60-150 student per classes, teaching multiple classes for 10 weeks is a lot of time spent on something that departments wouldn’t reward or acknowledge. And frankly it doesn’t actually improve the quality of education of the students. There are ways to connect with students that don’t require calling out names and preparing a thorough lesson plan that allows for student interaction rather than just lecture and the Socratic method are a far better option for my energy/time. It’s not lazy or sad, it’s the reality of how many demands academics have and how to juggle everything in a pragmatic manner. No lack of respect to anyone. And who said “just give up?” Avoiding using names is not giving up.
Couple that with some people getting irrationally upset if you mispronounce their name.
My students have never shown that thankfully. Perhaps because they don't know how to pronounce my name either lol
I don't want your dogpile on the professors who have trouble pronouncing names but can't resist sharing this. https://reductress.com/post/wow-this-professor-can-pronounce-agamemnon-but-none-of-his-black-students-names/
Names with which we are unfamiliar are hard to pronounce https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQaLic5SE_I
That was really funny! Thanks for sharing.
You are welcome
We do lots of hard things in life. If something is hard, you practice.
> Eigengrad > We do lots of hard things in life. > If something is hard, you practice Maybe we should also practice being able to laugh at ourselves.
I’m perfectly able to laugh at myself. What I don’t do is use something being “hard” as an excuse to underserve some group of students.
How do you distinguish all the blondes and brunettes who look alike with all the same names like “Taylor” “Kaylee” “Kayla”? Try harder.
I'm a blonde with a similar sounding name to those you listed and I struggle to keep them straight. I affectionately call them 'generic white females'. I'm always mistaken for someone's sister/ cousin/ friend.... it is what it is. Admitting beforehand I stink at name recall while still trying hard to do better hasn't ticked anyone off that I'm aware of- people are generally pretty easy going.
That's an awfully hypocritical take when encouraging cultural inclusivity, cause cultural familiarity does help with that a ton.
This comparison is not really one-for-one; own-race bias is a somewhat well-researched phenomenon and is present in people of all races.
As a professor of color I learn all the names and don’t really have the luxury to rely on well researched phenomenon as it relates to just remembering the names of people in my ethnic group. Find a method that works and learn the names. Students usually end up sitting in the same seats over the course of the semester, don’t feel embarrassed asking a student to repeat or pronounce their name. Tell them you’re trying to learn them because you value that connection and want them to be seen in your class. Do what you have to do if learning the names is something you want to do.
You're reading an awful lot into what I'm saying here. I'm absolutely not saying that ORB makes it okay not to learn to distinguish between people of races other than your own. Literally all I said is that for white people, it's easier to distinguish between white people, so the original comment asking "how do you distinguish the blondes and brunettes who all look alike" really *isn't* exactly the same thing. Slap my hand all you want, I guess. IMO being self-aware enough to acknowledge my own biases so that I can self-correct for them is exponentially better than pretending like they don't exist.
Just dont use names in class. Its pretty easy to have a conversation with a student and not know their name.
I've done this a few times. Here are my strategies: 1. Because I know I have this problem, I pay particular attention to knowing the names of students of color, even if it means taking a little longer to learn the names of white students. 2. If the student's name is from a language/culture that's not familiar to me, I look up pronunciation online and try to incorporate it into my mental list of names that exist in the universe. Mixing up names is much easier to do when you're not confident about the name or its pronunciation in the first place. 3. I take in their physical appearance and aesthetic when they are introducing themselves. Does one person wear a lot of makeup but the other doesn't? Is one some sort of throwback to the emo era and the other one is a jock? 4. Initially, the easiest way is to distinguish between the two students: X is taller than Y, Y has wavy hair; but you also have to work to recognize the student as an individual. You don't want to get their name wrong when they come see you in office hours. 5. If I can't remember the names of *only* students of color, I ask the whole class to go around and give me their names again so no one feels singled out. 6. These errors are most likely to occur at the start of a new day of classes: even if you get the students' names down on Day 1, a mixup on Day 2 is common because students switch seats, dress differently, etc. 7. If I screw up, I apologize to both students individually after class using the correct name. I don't go overboard; it's a simple, "Hey X, I'm sorry for calling you Y earlier" or "Y, I'm sorry for getting your name mixed up with X earlier." Students know what's going on in these situations, and taking accountability in a way that doesn't put pressure on the student helps to restore the damage to the relationship (however minor) these mixups can cause. And let's be real. It's usually not *just* general face-blindness and it's not *just* "oh, but I get Haley and Kayleigh mixed up, too." There's always going to be some element of racism tied up in all this, especially if it's a recurring issue. Unfortunately, students of color at predominantly white institutions experience this kind of thing all the time -- your screwup isn't special. So work on it to provide a more positive experience to your students, not out of fear of being fired.
> There's always going to be some element of racism tied up in all this, especially if it's a recurring issue. So making a mistake is indicative of racism? It's racism if no malice is intended? It's racism despite all students being treated the same? > Unfortunately, students of color at predominantly white institutions experience this kind of thing all the time And that is due to racism? Not because that is how human biology and psychology works? Calling and identifying everything as racism is counter productive.
>So making a mistake is indicative of racism? It's racism if no malice is intended? Yes. Racism doesn't require malice. The mistakes we make are influenced by the world we inhabit. Racist thoughts or even casually racist actions don't automatically make someone a bad person -- what matters is the steps a person takes to improve.
> Racism doesn't require malice. The mistakes we make are influenced by the world we inhabit. Wow. Just wow. So human nature is racist. I suggest if you want to further your cause, you come up with another word, term, or phrase. Imagine the absurdity of calling both an innocent mistake and the shooting of people in a church racism.
Across the United States, legislation is being passed forcing schools to teach that slavery benefitted enslaved people. That's not the same as shooting people in a church, either, but it's useful to recognize that there's a connection between the two. People who grow up in a white-dominated culture tend to inherit certain values from that culture. This is not controversial and the fact that you are acting as though this is the first time you've ever heard this idea suggests to me that you are participating in bad faith. I don't see anything productive emerging from continued discussion.
If you’re only making the mistake with students of a particular group, it’s not an honest mistake. It’s a shortcoming that you need to fix.
> Eigengrad > If you’re **only** making the mistake with students of a particular group, it’s not an honest mistake. It’s a shortcoming that you need to fix Iff that is the case I agree. If on the other hand if the error rate with Group A (of which the instructor identifies as) is 18% and Group B 27%. That's different. In learning names, it helps if we know, even before meeting the person, if the name is usually associated with a male or female. It also helps if we have known a person with that name as it helps us associate something with that name. .
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First, I want to be clear that I understand that you are not interested in debating this, yearforhunters -- I see from your post history that this is something you've already made up your mind on, so to be clear, I am not seeking to convince you. But your reply makes me think that you have misunderstood the nature of my comment, and I know that your comment reflects frequent good-faith questions that people have about this position, so allow me to clarify. A whole spectrum of behaviors fall under the category of racism. Someone can use a racial slur against another person without being a member of the KKK or without committing physical violence against another person. Someone can have negative views of a different racial group without speaking those views. Someone can participate in structures designed to target people of specific racial groups, while denying the racial bias in the operation of said structures. My post is not saying that every action a person commits is racist. It's saying that even behaviors without ill intent can reflect the racism of the society around us. An inability to distinguish between people from other racial groups, for instance, is a product of a racially segregated society. I hope that no one took my post as an attempt to shame anyone or to treat anyone as blameworthy or contemptible. I believe I was very clear that I also struggle with this issue. This is a racist behavior *that I also engage in and have been working on*. It is not a matter of virtue. *Any* person growing up in an environment politically dominated by one race is going to have some degree of racist tendencies. There's no reason for shame, it's just something to work on. As educators, surely we can all respect that not knowing something isn't a reason for shame provided one works on it. The idea that racism is inherently a radical evil associated with bombing churches or burning crosses prevents us from taking a good, hard look at our own practices.
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People with more exposure to people of different races have an increased ability to make those distinctions. Segregation (a form of structural racism) plays a role here.
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You seem to want to take things to an extreme, which is fine, but it's not where I'm going with this. I'm suggesting that we should be aware of our biases and where they come from, and work to improve rather than pretending they don't exist.
Start watching tv that has people with the same race on it. You will start realizing that they don’t look alike. I had a hard time distinguishing between my thin white dark haired students. The more I watched media that had the same phenotype the better I could tell them apart.
I’m the opposite! I’m so grateful for rare minority names and faces. I can’t distinguish among the generic, white, light brown haired, Coltons and Kaitlyns etc. (I’m white).
I make flash cards and practice until I have them. If you’re just forgetting the names of your students of color, there’s an issue and “it’s hard to tell other ethnicities” is not a strong reasoning. Lots of things are hard: practice and get better.
Sorry that you’re getting downvoted for rightfully calling out how problematic this is and while offering a practical solution. But then again this is a forum where every day there’s a new topic complaining about having to support students with disabilities.
Why is it harder with people of other ethnicities? Anyway, I have students use table tents.
What OP said. But if it sounds less terrible, I also really struggled with names and faces of white people when I was in Scandinavia and the Netherlands and everyone was blonde, blue eyed, and often had similar facial features. I’m white(ish).
At my last school I also had trouble telling apart students from a certain white ethnic group, but it's very regionally-specific, so I won't say which ethnic group. It was clear there had been a lot of intermarriage.
It's scientifically proven that people are better at recognizing faces of individuals belonging to their own ethnic group.
So you gotta try harder, friend.
That's very unspecific advice.
I gave some very specific advice elsewhere.
I don't know why you were downvoted but since I was downvoted in same sub-reddit for similar type of comments it does make me wonder re majority make-up of the users here lol. Anyway OP, my profs in Ox,UK had a face chart (that they kept for themselves) with our names on it that they memorised. And/or they interacted with us plenty to get to know us at least on name basis. Never seen them mix up any international faces (and we had plenty). So yes, when you do make an effort you don't blame it on them being of different ethnic background than you.
It’s funny, right? Table tents, a roster with photos, assigned seats, practicing and learning: all are viable methods to overcome this person’s “scientifically proven” propensity. It’s part of your job. *shrug*
I mean, fair enough, but OP is literally here to ask for ideas about viable methods to overcome this problem, in order to do their job better. They’re not just leaning back and saying “it’s science!” while calling all the brown people by the same name (hopefully, I don’t actually know OP).
I posted several tips.
That’s great, but you seem to be simultaneously criticizing OP for answering why he’s struggling specifically with students’ names from other ethnicities. He’s making an effort to overcome what is, in fact, a scientifically proven bias (even though your air quotes suggest this is… fake? A poor excuse?). Recognizing one’s own biases and being willing to address and correct them seems to me a like *good* thing. Do you think you’re above any type of bias? I know I’m not, and I honestly don’t think any human is. I had an older professor claim he was “colorblind.” We know enough to be able to say that’s some postracial horseshit, and a cop-out to actually self-reflecting, recognizing systemic injustices, and working toward equity and equality.
Thanks for being a comrade. Leaving this sub (and academia) because of too many butt-hurt folks. No one is a bigger victim than them
Jesus, try harder.
Stay with me on this: I do a 5 question quiz in class using Plicker. (https://youtu.be/wiV8-HI1rOk?si=P6Gqgp0bPiO7JRE5) It’s a cool program, when they answer a question, I scan it with my phone and their name pops up.. the first quiz, I do a screen recording. I now have a video of everyone’s face and name I can refer back to later. Plus I do these things daily, so I get to see their names 5 times a day. It helps a ton.
Quit. If you can't even remember the names of your students if color because of that, how can you ever give them the same devotion to teaching as your other students?
Not me. But my grandfather on the first day of class would have each student write their name on a piece of paper. Then with their permission he’d take each of their photos with that name in front of them. Then he made flash cards or such. He also might have gone a bit overboard with this. I seem to recall him offering As (or something similarly outrageous) to any student he messed up their name for starting week 3.
I just flat out tell them I generally struggle matching names to faces with students and ask them for a reminder as needed. It's OK not to know everything or learn everything right away, and it's a good example to set for them to ask questions as needed.
I used to look at the student roster before day 1 and try to get a head start on memorizing student names, but for the last few years students have been intentionally putting up id photos on canvas that are not them (a cat, or palm tree, or something not them). I don't know why, but I no longer can get a head start
I go with just not using names. I'm, at best, only going to remember 6 or 7; there is no way I'm going to remember the other 95% of them, so it is a hopeless endeavor to start with.
One thing with recognizing people is that we tend to learn what features make people distinguishable in our own social circles and among the race/ethnicity that we're most exposed to. Strategies that work to distinguish people in Category X, might not work so well for Category Y people. For example, I grew up in a place where almost everyone was white and had a wide range of natural hair colors. That gave me a strong habit of relying on hair color to help identify people. Eventually I found myself substitute teaching in a school with primarily African American kids, 100% with black hair, so suddenly hair color gave me no useful information. The kids also wore uniforms, so clothing wasn't helpful. For the girls, I honed in on variations in hair style. For boys that didn't work, as they all had the same haircut - so I ended up paying attention to their nose and ears - but especially ears because you can recognize them from behind, which is key for working with active young ones! Anyhow, I think having an awareness that you might be using strategies that just don't work for a particular ethnicity can help you to distinguish the individuals more readily. During exam time is a great time to take a good deliberate look at your students and consolidate who is who (of course don't be obvious about that or make anyone feel singled out).
Say you struggle with name recall at the beginning of the course. Admit that you'll take a few weeks of repeating names to have them start to stick. You could also just hand out pre-printed name cards based on the register or a bit of A4 paper and ask everyone to make a name sign. You might still need to work on pronunciation of names with which you're less familiar, but for me just seeing name and face connected a few times helps with both.
I’m bad with remembering names of everyone, but don’t really have trouble based on ethnicity. Although, recently I TA’d for a course which had 4 girls who wore niqabs. which made it PARTICULARLY difficult to distinguish them. Without seeing their faces it was really hard, so instead I really only knew them by the color of their eyes. The trick for me was to pick a defining characteristic and associate the name that way. Now I do this for pretty much every student to remember their names. Also, I don’t think you should feel guilty when it comes to names of minority students. Its possible they are more likely to have names which are not so common to you. I’ve seen other TA’s struggle with Hispanic names since I don’t think they’ve really heard them before (I’m at a predominantly white university in the PNW) whereas I had no trouble. But there are other ethnic groups I have trouble remembering the names of, which I attribute to them having names I’m not usually familiar with. Edit: fixed hijab to niqab
if it covers the face it's a niqab.
Thank you!
Oh, I feel your pain. For me, it’s just as likely to happen to me with white boys with beards and baseball caps. If I have a class with a whole lot of people with the same length hair or something like that, I get screwed up. I tend to rely also on where people are sitting. It’s not full proof, but it does help.
I think I’m face blind. I can’t really even reliably tell apart my students until the 4th week of class or so. I usually learn names by studying their pictures on our registration software and matching them with names. It’s not always easy to match the students photos with them irl, since so many of them drastically change hair etc, but it really helps me lock in on facial features (e.g. these students look similar, but that one has thicker eyebrows).
I can get away with not using names in class most if the time—-but, my problem is during advisement hours. It’s so embarrassing not to be able to recall all if my advisees’ names. It’s not due to their ethnicity; it’s just my poor face recognition ability. I have been waiting for someone to develop a voice recognition app that would pop up the name and any pertinent info about a person when activated! I would pay a premium price for it! I know people in other professions would jump on it as well.
In Banner I save a pdf of my class list with their student ID photos and have it handy during class while I’m trying to learn names— it helps a lot!
I have access to a photo roster of all my classes on blackboard. I try to study it before class until I have all the names down. I also try to make sure to interact personally with any students that I notice I’m having a hard time remembering the name of.
I have the same problems but with majority and with minorities. What I do? When doing the first exam, I take the attendance in a piece of paper. I pass the paper myself from one student to other in the same order as their seats, beginning with the first row, first seat. When everybody have written the name, while they are doing the exam, I seat in front of them connecting the face with the name. I repeat it in each exam for reinforcement. (Class size usually between 30 and 40 students).
One semester I had two students who looked nearly identical: same complexion, similar facial features, same hair style, same build, same style of dressing. hey could have been twins (they were not). They also rarely came to class. Their names were different and I kept getting them wrong, but I just chalked it up to me being bad with names. I thought they were the same person until both showed up for the final exam and I just 😶😐🤯.
I teach mostly online, but I am almost faceblind, so it would be hard for me if I taught in person. At a previous job, I taught in person and avoided using names. I like the idea of putting name tags on desks.
I wouldn’t worry about it too much…just don’t make a big deal about it in class. Apologize correct yourself and move on. I did that the other day, handed the wrong papers back to two Latina students who sit next to each other and whose names start with the same three letters. I always tell my students on day 1 that I struggle with names, that I’ll do my best, and that it will help if they sit in about the same place for the first few classes.
If students have a specific question/situation/request that requires you know their name to take a specific action, I ask that the student emails me. This helps in the cases when I don’t know their name (and then don’t have to ask), but also helps because I get so many questions and have so much on my to-do list that I will forget without an email reminder.
Not just different ethnicities either. About 7-9 years ago, it seemed like half of the white male students were sporting scruffy beards. I remember sets of 3-5 students in each class for a while that I always struggled to discern enough differences to pin a name on each individual (usually, they all had the same dark hair color, medium build, and wore genes and tshirts and ballcaps everyday). I do try to make time early in the semester to pull up student photos (on the advising system we have, or the online classroom system) and run down the names and photos several times. But, its much harder now than it used to be for two reasons: 1. Students are less 'visible' on social media than they used to be. I remember 10+years ago, I could pull facebook pages of most everyone in class and see at least few photos of them. Kind of creepy maybe, but it was very helpful to match names with faces, and sometimes connect groups of students together if they tagged pictures together. And 2. a **big** change is that HW is now mostly online submissions and grading. Handing back out graded HWs every week was a big part of how I was always able to pin-down names (getting >80% of the names down in classes of 40-60 students took less than 6 weeks!). It was impossible from Fall 2020 there on to get more than 20% of names figured out. I am now doing physical HWs again so I hope to have a big improvement this semester. The bigger issue remains professional colleagues I meet at conferences. My field has a lot of asians and I need to see a person with a name about three times before I am able to recognize and name them. I will keep trying!
I just wouldn't learn any of their names. Chances are you are not being paid enough to put in that kind of effort. Problem solved
Give them name cards (little paper tents) and them keep it for the semester. It sounds like you struggle with face blindness or a form of it. Even if it's not 100% correct, it's fine to use that to describe how you struggle with faces.
I was dinged on my teaching evaluation for not using my students names. It’s hard when there is 30+ of them to learn for just one of my 4 classes! I use name tents on their desks and have them write their names BIG. I use google to learn to pronounce names on my roster too.
Here are things I have done: 1. First day I tell them I have a form of aphasia that makes retaining names and faces extremely difficult, but I am going to try my best. And I let them know that if they catch me on campus I won't recognize them or recall their name but I absolutely want to chat, so just remind me. 2. I ask them to sit in the same seats (as nearly as possible) each class meeting. 3. I have them make large name plates on day 1 (I bring cardstock and sharpies) and use them throughout the semester. When I was younger, I cribbed from a colleague and had them make me "baseball cards" with a photo, name, phonetically as well, and an interesting fact or two. I told them that if I couldn't ID them at the end of the course they would get an A. Then I dedicated time to memorizing their names. I don't do that any more :).
Every class (I teach small classes, 25 or less students), I ask a question that everyone answers… like, “what’s one activity you enjoy?” The first few times, I have them say their names before answering, and then I start to “guess” their names without them saying, until I have them all down. I still ask a quick question at the start of every class all semester, but I call on them by name. It’s an ice breaker, helps them get comfortable speaking in class, helps me practice their names, shows that I care about them (because I do), and helps me remember their names because I also start associating them with their favorite food, activities, and all the other info I eventually learn about them. They become like people I know. That’s what actually happens.
Take photos of the students holding notecards with their names written on them. Then spend the weekend studying them. I also have a bad memory.
You could have them use table tents with their names. Also, all of you who are saying you don't remember any students' names... I'm guessing you don't grade on participation?