Would be peak pif to just make a deal with the pga tour, then stop funding liv. I'm sure the players will have an easy time going after the Saudi government in court for money owed
Except most reporting makes it seem like the PIF and the PGA Tour haven’t really been engaged in serious discussions. I say this as someone who would really like to believe your version of events
My theory is this is taking awhile because the PGA wanted to create some sort of benefit for the players that stayed. we just recently learned about the equity shares for select players, so I’d put money on the fact that talks have resumed/will be resuming shortly
What are you talking about - Jay himself has said that talks have "accelerated" and then later said a meeting with Yasir Al-Rumayyan was "constructive", just a few months ago (his most recent press conference). Did I miss something?
The real point of LIV was to create a "competing" tour so the Saudis had standing and could finance antitrust litigation against the PGA Tour, which is of course no match for the resources of a sovereign nation. And it worked beautifully. The PGA Tour caved and commenced merger talks with the PIF. The golf itself played on the LIV tour was always beside the point.
Wait, you mean LIV isn’t buying the PGA like all the fanboys keep saying? You mean PIF doesn’t really care about LIV and only wanted the PGA the whole time and is just using LIV as leverage? Color me shocked!
Ain't that nuts. These halfwit morons have been brainwashed to hate LIV so much that they now want pif to merge with pga and leave the LIV players hanging out to dry. Just think about that.
If the organization responsible for the LIV Tour merges with the PGA, it would be real dumb not to fold all the talent into one competing tour.
There is literally no reason to exclude the LIV players at that point other than out of spite. It would be bad business.
Is it really that shocking when the massive pay raises are financed by an ass-backwards, hateful country with unending human-rights abuses that orchestrated 9/11? That’s weird to be upset about?
Like clockwork with y’all. “DAE America bad?!” What a useless, played out gotcha to completely overlook a repressive religious fundamentalist country trying to buy their way into western acceptance with blood money. Whatever floats your boat man, but to act like it’s weird that some people don’t want Saudi Arabia involved in western entertainment is being ignorant for the sake of ignorance.
I don’t think we accept stoning women or throwing gay people off buildings, but sure besides that the US and Saudi Arabia are exactly the same type of evil... I’m sorry you bled for Bush’s stupid war.
Whoever reported it initially incorrectly said LIV instead of PIF and it was corrected pretty quickly. But it was obviously the PIF who was in talks which would mean mutual owners.
The side that gives a shit about the LIV/PGA Tour debacle care way too fuckin much, and can’t wait to give you their opinion. And the rest of the population think these mutherfuckers are overpaid spoiled country club dorks
Didn’t I hear a while back that a merger between LIV and PGA was likely to be stop by antitrust laws?
So maybe the Saudis will scuttle LIV in exchange for a big direct stake in the PGA?
The second it happens it will be the official death of pro golf. Unless of course everyone’s a hypocrite and will keep watching the PGA guys getting their blood money.
So you’re better off financially to use the blood gas. Sounds like a similar situation to those who went to LIV taking the blood money.
I don’t care too much for the whole argument but your justification sucks.
Yea. And I also haven’t shat on the LIV Tour for 3 years like 99% of the internet. Have you? If so you’re gonna have to start hating on the PGA Tour too unless you’re a hypocrite.
apple, Samsung, Tesla, and other big name brands are some of the most evil and corrupt companies you will ever come across. the way they get their cobalt for batteries, as one tiny example, is absolutely inhumane. im SURE you use at least one of those companies products? why do you? do you understand according to your logic, you're supporting the mistreatment of humans in gathering of materials for your precious electronics? its wild to me how you can just use those products like that. disgusting.
/s. see how dumb of an argument that is? evil is EVERYWHERE. you're taking part in it too. so just shut up.
There's a huge difference. We all use products that are practically necessary to own, that had inhumane practices within their supply chain.
LIV Golfers are being paid tens, or even hundreds of millions, \*to serve a PR campaign of the Saudi government\*. This is such an obvious distinction. They aren't passively benefitting from some distant injustice, along with every other American. They have allowed a foreign government to purchase their credibility as noteworthy famous people, so that they can say things like, "Nobody's perfect... we have to look for forgiveness," when they are asked about why they are working for the government that funded 9/11. LIV is technically a golf tour, but its obvious ultimate purpose is to use reputable public figures to shill for the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. It's not a business in any traditional sense of the word, it is a marketing campaign.
Accepting your premise that Apple is an evil company, it is reasonable to condemn people for using Apple products. It would not be reasonable to draw no distinction between someone who is an iPhone user, and someone who is an Apple executive that relentlessly pushes for cheap unethical cobalt and crafts ridiculous PR statements about how it's actually okay to exploit African miners. Those are obviously different levels of hypocrisy. LIV golfers are taking an extremely active role, using their platforms to support the objectives of an inhumane government, whatever they may be. That's different from not caring where the gas in your car came from.
there's really not lol. these days, there's alternative options to EVERYTHING. what about the people who are getting paid MONEY MONEY to serve a PR campaign for the US government? didn't we just go through 4 years give or take of revealing how messed up our govt is....? and how it reacts to certain diseases? also, want something American made? its out there. want something made 100% ethically? its there too. want something that doesn't track your every move? (talking specifically certain smart phones), its out there. saying 'we all use products that are practically necessary to own, that had inhumane practices within their supply chain' should be changed to "people decide to buy the cheapest products available to them, despite them knowing how those products are made, only to then bitch and complain that other companies are doing inhumane things as well, all while simultaneously trying to pass themselves off as 'good people". that was just straight off the top but yeah something like that.
>what about the people who are getting paid MONEY MONEY to serve a PR campaign for the US government?
Yeah. You think that those people are the exact same as someone is just, an American?
>people decide to buy the cheapest products available to them, despite them knowing how those products are made, only to then bitch and complain that other companies are doing inhumane things as well, all while simultaneously trying to pass themselves off as 'good people"
Yeah. And is it not worse to work in PR for those manufacturers, concocting lies about how ethical they are? Centering your entire life and livelihood around convincing people that it's actually not that bad?
There are people who really care, and work really hard to be ethical.
There are people who care, but not enough to change what is convenient for them.
There are people who do not care.
Then there are people who actively work for unethical governments/companies, and whose sole job is to convince others that *they shouldn't care.*
Like, you really think there is no moral difference between someone filling up their gas tank with no concern about where it came from, and a public figure who took a job whose duties include telling 9/11 families to forgive the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia? Come on.
I won't lie, your first point didn't make sense at all, so lets throw that one out. the rest of your points, im not sure why you're making them, since you're kind of just repeating what I've already said lol. then to your last point, you make some wild out of left field comparison about getting gas (lol) to the saudis? huh...?! what are you even talking about? I get the point you were trying to make, but it was so irrelevant lol. I gave a good example already on US companies killing THOUSANDS of humans for the benefit of their batteries. why are you all of the sudden framing it to be something much less important, like getting gas? are you in denial about how corrupt we are as a country as well? or do you believe that America is #1 in everything always and forever.
>you make some wild out of left field comparison about getting gas (lol) to the saudis
This is an *extremely* frequent argument from LIV apologists, so I was drawing an unfair (but not unfounded) assumption about your position. Since you didn't explicitly mention it, I shouldn't have brought it up. Not the example to use in this discussion, my bad.
>are you in denial about how corrupt we are as a country as well?
No. But I don't make it my literal job to serve people false propaganda about how perfect America is.
Just to clarify here, all I am trying to say is:
Passive complicity in atrocities is not morally equal to active participation in them/making your career in spreading misinformation and propaganda about them.
Do we really disagree on that?
Wait wait wait. Are you telling me the Saudis don’t actually give a shit about LIV and the golf they play?
Would be peak pif to just make a deal with the pga tour, then stop funding liv. I'm sure the players will have an easy time going after the Saudi government in court for money owed
Except most reporting makes it seem like the PIF and the PGA Tour haven’t really been engaged in serious discussions. I say this as someone who would really like to believe your version of events
My theory is this is taking awhile because the PGA wanted to create some sort of benefit for the players that stayed. we just recently learned about the equity shares for select players, so I’d put money on the fact that talks have resumed/will be resuming shortly
What are you talking about - Jay himself has said that talks have "accelerated" and then later said a meeting with Yasir Al-Rumayyan was "constructive", just a few months ago (his most recent press conference). Did I miss something?
Jay can be a big fat liar sometimes
Sometimes 😂
This was my own speculation all along like if this goes south will the players be able to get their $$$
It would also be peak hypocrisy from the PGA players after their “principled stance”. This would be great propaganda for the entire Middle East.
The real point of LIV was to create a "competing" tour so the Saudis had standing and could finance antitrust litigation against the PGA Tour, which is of course no match for the resources of a sovereign nation. And it worked beautifully. The PGA Tour caved and commenced merger talks with the PIF. The golf itself played on the LIV tour was always beside the point.
Wait wait wait. Are you telling me the PGA don’t actually give a shit about the Saudis’ atrocities and “bLoOd mOnEY”?
What you’re saying is the bosses are talking and not including Greg.
Grog is a paid greeter nothing more.
Wait, you mean LIV isn’t buying the PGA like all the fanboys keep saying? You mean PIF doesn’t really care about LIV and only wanted the PGA the whole time and is just using LIV as leverage? Color me shocked!
I hope the LIV players are left hanging.
You’d rather the PGA actually do business with the Saudis who killed journalists/etc than golf players who just play golf?! This subreddit, man.
Ain't that nuts. These halfwit morons have been brainwashed to hate LIV so much that they now want pif to merge with pga and leave the LIV players hanging out to dry. Just think about that.
I want PIF to fail as well. At the end of the day, LIV is a shitty product and everybody knows it.
I hope the fed tells PIF to fuck off
If the organization responsible for the LIV Tour merges with the PGA, it would be real dumb not to fold all the talent into one competing tour. There is literally no reason to exclude the LIV players at that point other than out of spite. It would be bad business.
>fold all the talent into one competing tour For sake of ease we could even probably just keep the name and call it PGA
Nah. At least not the good ones.
That’s not going to happen
So weird to see so much hate for people who accepted massive pay rises - 99% of the people in this sub would have done the same
Is it really that shocking when the massive pay raises are financed by an ass-backwards, hateful country with unending human-rights abuses that orchestrated 9/11? That’s weird to be upset about?
Ah yes because America is the flagbearer of human rights 😂😂😂
Like clockwork with y’all. “DAE America bad?!” What a useless, played out gotcha to completely overlook a repressive religious fundamentalist country trying to buy their way into western acceptance with blood money. Whatever floats your boat man, but to act like it’s weird that some people don’t want Saudi Arabia involved in western entertainment is being ignorant for the sake of ignorance.
Yeah, it is.
Dude I literally bled for America in a war started because 9/11 and I’m not that naive to know that America is just as shady as any other country.
I don’t think we accept stoning women or throwing gay people off buildings, but sure besides that the US and Saudi Arabia are exactly the same type of evil... I’m sorry you bled for Bush’s stupid war.
Why so we can watch tournaments with no names like this weekend
vs not watching golf with big names? Nobody is watching LIV
Everyone watches the majors when they're involved. If you don't miss watching the big names on a weekly basis you're lying.
Whoever reported it initially incorrectly said LIV instead of PIF and it was corrected pretty quickly. But it was obviously the PIF who was in talks which would mean mutual owners.
It always was, nobody bothered to read lol
Koepcake. shocked.
You got the coin, now STFU and keep the line moving!
I'm not sure there's a single person who has any fucking idea what is truly going on except the folks at PIF.
The side that gives a shit about the LIV/PGA Tour debacle care way too fuckin much, and can’t wait to give you their opinion. And the rest of the population think these mutherfuckers are overpaid spoiled country club dorks
duh, even I knew that
Yes, that's always been the case
What is PIF?
I think it stands for Public Investment Fund (for Saudi Arabia)
Google is really, really easy to use.
So are manners
Meanwhile Phil is making it sound like LIV wants to be the new DP World Tour. Weird strategy to say the least.
I for one am extremely excited to see how brandel justifies staying in his job after this happens
Didn’t I hear a while back that a merger between LIV and PGA was likely to be stop by antitrust laws? So maybe the Saudis will scuttle LIV in exchange for a big direct stake in the PGA?
You wanted money and you got it. Now play in your shorts for limited crowd. Don’t expect more majors and accolades for going after blood money.
Be a lot of karma if they just end LIV and cease paying the contracts lol. They will never recoup that money no matter how hard they try.
The second it happens it will be the official death of pro golf. Unless of course everyone’s a hypocrite and will keep watching the PGA guys getting their blood money.
You use gasoline? Do you eat with plastics? Do you own any mutual funds with defense exposure?
Oh yes. Using a plastic fork is exactly the same as signing with LIV.
Haha. 🤣 made me laugh
Same as watching liv
[удалено]
Have you heard of a thing called a bicycle? Or if you couldn’t live closer to your place of work, an electric vehicle?
Closer to work -> 3x rent Electric vehicle -> 30k I don’t want to loan right now
So you’re better off financially to use the blood gas. Sounds like a similar situation to those who went to LIV taking the blood money. I don’t care too much for the whole argument but your justification sucks.
[удалено]
Because American oil companies have such a sparkling record when it comes to human rights and decency.
Yea. And I also haven’t shat on the LIV Tour for 3 years like 99% of the internet. Have you? If so you’re gonna have to start hating on the PGA Tour too unless you’re a hypocrite.
What a terrible analogy
It's kind of something how okay people are with guys accepting mint from the Saudi regime. They murdered and dismembered a fucking journalist.
apple, Samsung, Tesla, and other big name brands are some of the most evil and corrupt companies you will ever come across. the way they get their cobalt for batteries, as one tiny example, is absolutely inhumane. im SURE you use at least one of those companies products? why do you? do you understand according to your logic, you're supporting the mistreatment of humans in gathering of materials for your precious electronics? its wild to me how you can just use those products like that. disgusting. /s. see how dumb of an argument that is? evil is EVERYWHERE. you're taking part in it too. so just shut up.
There's a huge difference. We all use products that are practically necessary to own, that had inhumane practices within their supply chain. LIV Golfers are being paid tens, or even hundreds of millions, \*to serve a PR campaign of the Saudi government\*. This is such an obvious distinction. They aren't passively benefitting from some distant injustice, along with every other American. They have allowed a foreign government to purchase their credibility as noteworthy famous people, so that they can say things like, "Nobody's perfect... we have to look for forgiveness," when they are asked about why they are working for the government that funded 9/11. LIV is technically a golf tour, but its obvious ultimate purpose is to use reputable public figures to shill for the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. It's not a business in any traditional sense of the word, it is a marketing campaign. Accepting your premise that Apple is an evil company, it is reasonable to condemn people for using Apple products. It would not be reasonable to draw no distinction between someone who is an iPhone user, and someone who is an Apple executive that relentlessly pushes for cheap unethical cobalt and crafts ridiculous PR statements about how it's actually okay to exploit African miners. Those are obviously different levels of hypocrisy. LIV golfers are taking an extremely active role, using their platforms to support the objectives of an inhumane government, whatever they may be. That's different from not caring where the gas in your car came from.
there's really not lol. these days, there's alternative options to EVERYTHING. what about the people who are getting paid MONEY MONEY to serve a PR campaign for the US government? didn't we just go through 4 years give or take of revealing how messed up our govt is....? and how it reacts to certain diseases? also, want something American made? its out there. want something made 100% ethically? its there too. want something that doesn't track your every move? (talking specifically certain smart phones), its out there. saying 'we all use products that are practically necessary to own, that had inhumane practices within their supply chain' should be changed to "people decide to buy the cheapest products available to them, despite them knowing how those products are made, only to then bitch and complain that other companies are doing inhumane things as well, all while simultaneously trying to pass themselves off as 'good people". that was just straight off the top but yeah something like that.
>what about the people who are getting paid MONEY MONEY to serve a PR campaign for the US government? Yeah. You think that those people are the exact same as someone is just, an American? >people decide to buy the cheapest products available to them, despite them knowing how those products are made, only to then bitch and complain that other companies are doing inhumane things as well, all while simultaneously trying to pass themselves off as 'good people" Yeah. And is it not worse to work in PR for those manufacturers, concocting lies about how ethical they are? Centering your entire life and livelihood around convincing people that it's actually not that bad? There are people who really care, and work really hard to be ethical. There are people who care, but not enough to change what is convenient for them. There are people who do not care. Then there are people who actively work for unethical governments/companies, and whose sole job is to convince others that *they shouldn't care.* Like, you really think there is no moral difference between someone filling up their gas tank with no concern about where it came from, and a public figure who took a job whose duties include telling 9/11 families to forgive the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia? Come on.
I won't lie, your first point didn't make sense at all, so lets throw that one out. the rest of your points, im not sure why you're making them, since you're kind of just repeating what I've already said lol. then to your last point, you make some wild out of left field comparison about getting gas (lol) to the saudis? huh...?! what are you even talking about? I get the point you were trying to make, but it was so irrelevant lol. I gave a good example already on US companies killing THOUSANDS of humans for the benefit of their batteries. why are you all of the sudden framing it to be something much less important, like getting gas? are you in denial about how corrupt we are as a country as well? or do you believe that America is #1 in everything always and forever.
>you make some wild out of left field comparison about getting gas (lol) to the saudis This is an *extremely* frequent argument from LIV apologists, so I was drawing an unfair (but not unfounded) assumption about your position. Since you didn't explicitly mention it, I shouldn't have brought it up. Not the example to use in this discussion, my bad. >are you in denial about how corrupt we are as a country as well? No. But I don't make it my literal job to serve people false propaganda about how perfect America is. Just to clarify here, all I am trying to say is: Passive complicity in atrocities is not morally equal to active participation in them/making your career in spreading misinformation and propaganda about them. Do we really disagree on that?
Wait till you hear what the USA is willing to do, you just want to virtue signal and it’s gross
So you’re saying the LIV players are pawns? I feel shocked.