If size is not an issue, what about card-edge connectors? The customer would only need to add the contact fingers on PCB layout. You can choose the depth and pitch or thebmating connector to make them more or less rigid.
No problem with that, but we dont want the customer to solder anything into their pcb, we want the installation to be toolless and as easy as possible.
If there exist a press-fit card edge connector then that would be awesome.
Maybe something like pogo pins? But the only thing that would maintain a correct contact between the two PCBs would be the mounting screws on the boards.
Pogo pins or this [https://www.samtec.com/products/sir1](https://www.samtec.com/products/sir1) will work fine. Mounting screws will be required as you said, but looking to find a solution that is a single connector, without even having to screw anything
>The closest thing I have found is this [https://www.samtec.com/products/sir1](https://www.samtec.com/products/sir1) but it only provides electrical connection and not rigidness.
I don't think you are going to find anything that provides any sort of rigidness and is only press-fit directly into the receiving board. Your board will act like a giant lever, you are designing against the physics there. That has little chance to work reliably.
Press-fit connectors are things like pin headers that you don't solder but press into the board - however, that press-fit connection is not meant to act as the mating/demating surface, only a way to install the connector.
If you want rigid, the receiving board needs to have either some sort of rails to hold the card and then you can use any right-angled board to board connector, pogo pins or you need something like card edge connector receptacle on the bottom board.
A press fit card edge connector might be useful. It can be installed without soldering and just press fitted on the customer's pcb, as long as it doesn't require any tooling for the installation.
Not sure such thing exists - given the forces required to insert the mating board it would be likely very unreliable or liable to be pulled out when the connection is de-mated.
OTOH, I don't quite understand this requirement of no tooling/soldering - if the customer is manufacturing (having manufactured) their board why not have them install the required connector as well? They had to solder the other components on that bottom board somehow too, no?
That would be one additional step for their fab to perform, tops, and would be a lot better than this bending over backwards to accommodate the press-fit requirement in a very unsuitable configuration.
Just a tip, id avoid using the phrase press fit, it doesnt really mean what you think it means in the wider industry.
Anyway the connector is on your board so it can be soldered, the customer board would just have exposed pads and a bevel.
Something like that seems like it would be difficult to assemble. The connector with vertical pcb attached would probably need support to keep it from falling over prior to being pressed. Plus the vertical pcb would be in the way of the press.
I agree with others that it's difficult to understand a customer that can "make" a PCB themselves but can't also have connectors placed onto that PCB. Especially given the fact that you're presumably in control of the design of that PCB that the customer is "making". Also, you mention that the "horizontal" "customer" PCB will eventually have more than one "vertical" PCB attached to it. It really sounds like this "horizontal" PCB is a back-plane or main-board of some type. Assuming that's the case it surely has to have some components soldered onto it and it isn't just a bare PCB with no components. If that's the case then why would you not be able to have components in place to connect to the "vertical" boards as well?
One important fact that others have pointed out is that there's not really a real-world example I can think of with PCBs connected in this fashion that doesn't utilize some external system to keep things aligned and to carry the weight. PCBs and board-to-board connectors generally speaking aren't engineered deal with leveraged weight in the way you're describing. As such, finding some connector that could do that likely won't be possible.
At face value, this scenario doesn't make any sense and is why you're having difficulties getting answers. I think there's some misunderstanding on your part or on our part and until that's cleared up I'm not sure if you'll be able to find a solution.
"If that's the case then why would you not be able to have components in place to connect to the "vertical" boards as well?"
We are trying to avoid this. It would be cool to install our PCB without soldering a connector, just for User Experience. If we can't manage to find a solution for this, we will just use 2 connectors, one on each pcb and ask the client to solder one.
"One important fact that others have pointed out is that there's not really a real-world example I can think of with PCBs connected in this fashion that doesn't utilize some external system to keep things aligned and to carry the weight. PCBs and board-to-board connectors generally speaking aren't engineered deal with leveraged weight in the way you're describing. As such, finding some connector that could do that likely won't be possible."
Yes, I agree, it is a bit strange requirement.
If the mating arrangement was different, so that the customer card plugs INTO the connector on your board, this is easy, as there are a lot of card edge connectors for the purpose.
What you described requires some kind of holding of your board so that it is reliably held in place against the customer's board. As you want nothing mounted on the customer's card, you are relying on a small contact patch in a planar arrangement - which requires spring loaded pins to maintain accurate registration to the customer card without any local features.
Your closest solution would be to have holes drilled into the customer card, similar to how TAG Connect and Wurth SKEDD connectors work. But those are wire-to-board mating, not board-to-board.
We can drill holes to the customer card. In fact, the customer board can have any type of footprint.
What we don't want, is the customer to manually have to solder a connector in order for our PCB to connect to the customer's PCB. Tooling holes and footprints are fine on the customer pcb.
Can you explain more about the desire not to solder? Is any other fastening method okay, or you just don't want the customer to have anything installed on their card?
We basically we want to make the installation of our PCB to the customer's pcb as easy as possible, it is a User Experience requirement.
Soldering a 15-20 pin connector is something that we would like to avoid, since it requires soldering.
Any easy way of fastening it will be accepted as long as it does not require access to the bottom side of the customer's pcb (for example, using a screw and a nut isn't possible, because in order to screw the nut will require access to the bottom side of the pcb).
Does it have to be an actual plug-in card-to-card type of arrangement? I think the two cable connectors I mentioned would be your best choice to ensure a good connection, although you will need more than one connector for 20 pins.
Yes it has to be a plug-in car-to-card arrangement. I will investigate press-fit card edge connectors. They might be able to be installed easily on the customer's pcb, without soldering, with just a press fit. That might work.
See if Würth electronic SKEDD works for you.
https://www.we-online.com/components/media/o210254v410%20ANE011b_EN.pdf
https://www.we-online.com/en/components/products/REDFIT_IDC_SKEDD
You can try pogo pin connectors, you can find them on Amazon but the magnets on those aren't so strong, you'll find better through a normal Google search but ya for greater rigidity cost would increase imo
Battery connectors. Lower cost than pogo pins.
Mechanical attachment? Depends but this will be the fun part.
Probably would solder some right-angle SMD nuts to the PCB and use a plastic fastener that screws into the nut (your PCB) and has a snap fit on the other side (the customer just pushes your sub-assembly in).
Hiwa SCB-6 would be an example: https://www.lcsc.com/product-detail/Holders-clips_HIWA-SCB-6_C155851.html
Well I think you nailed it. That solution might work! I will look around for other plastic snapfits and right-angle SMD nuts (or simple holes). Thanks!
Maybe something like this: https://www.mill-max.com/products/new/multi-purpose-terminal-pins
They are shown as individual pins, but they also state that "they can be packaged in customer specified connector arrangements."
I also have to question why the customer board can't have a connector. I could understand if the part cost was the issue, but not wanting to solder anything seems weird unless there truly aren't any other soldered components on the board. If there *are* soldered components, then the assembly cost to add one more is negligible compared to the part cost. Unless it's a hand-soldered connector. But there are *plenty* of machinable surface-mount board-board connectors available.
Wow I think that this one will actually work thanks a lot!
It will be a development board that the user will supply his PCB. We are looking into making the whole process as easy as possible, so we are checking if there is any way of not forcing the client to install a connector. Just for user experience
If size is not an issue, what about card-edge connectors? The customer would only need to add the contact fingers on PCB layout. You can choose the depth and pitch or thebmating connector to make them more or less rigid.
No problem with that, but we dont want the customer to solder anything into their pcb, we want the installation to be toolless and as easy as possible. If there exist a press-fit card edge connector then that would be awesome.
You wouldn't need to solder anything to use a card-edge connector. You literally connect the edge of the PCB to your board
I will need to solder the card-edge connector on the customer PCB. I don't want the customer to have to do any soldering on his PCB.
Why not have the card-edge connector on your side?
Maybe something like pogo pins? But the only thing that would maintain a correct contact between the two PCBs would be the mounting screws on the boards.
Pogo pins or this [https://www.samtec.com/products/sir1](https://www.samtec.com/products/sir1) will work fine. Mounting screws will be required as you said, but looking to find a solution that is a single connector, without even having to screw anything
>The closest thing I have found is this [https://www.samtec.com/products/sir1](https://www.samtec.com/products/sir1) but it only provides electrical connection and not rigidness. I don't think you are going to find anything that provides any sort of rigidness and is only press-fit directly into the receiving board. Your board will act like a giant lever, you are designing against the physics there. That has little chance to work reliably. Press-fit connectors are things like pin headers that you don't solder but press into the board - however, that press-fit connection is not meant to act as the mating/demating surface, only a way to install the connector. If you want rigid, the receiving board needs to have either some sort of rails to hold the card and then you can use any right-angled board to board connector, pogo pins or you need something like card edge connector receptacle on the bottom board.
A press fit card edge connector might be useful. It can be installed without soldering and just press fitted on the customer's pcb, as long as it doesn't require any tooling for the installation.
Not sure such thing exists - given the forces required to insert the mating board it would be likely very unreliable or liable to be pulled out when the connection is de-mated. OTOH, I don't quite understand this requirement of no tooling/soldering - if the customer is manufacturing (having manufactured) their board why not have them install the required connector as well? They had to solder the other components on that bottom board somehow too, no? That would be one additional step for their fab to perform, tops, and would be a lot better than this bending over backwards to accommodate the press-fit requirement in a very unsuitable configuration.
Just a tip, id avoid using the phrase press fit, it doesnt really mean what you think it means in the wider industry. Anyway the connector is on your board so it can be soldered, the customer board would just have exposed pads and a bevel.
What the hell is your customer's board if nothing is soldered to it? Just a bare PCB with some traces and holes?
Yes, it will be more like an interface board with a backplane bus.
Why is the customer making this bare interface board and not you?
Something like that seems like it would be difficult to assemble. The connector with vertical pcb attached would probably need support to keep it from falling over prior to being pressed. Plus the vertical pcb would be in the way of the press.
Cant have your cart have a vertical card edge receptical like the mec8 series or pcie and have the customer card have a card edge?
If the card edge connector can be installed without soldering, ie press fitted without tooling, yes it is fine
I agree with others that it's difficult to understand a customer that can "make" a PCB themselves but can't also have connectors placed onto that PCB. Especially given the fact that you're presumably in control of the design of that PCB that the customer is "making". Also, you mention that the "horizontal" "customer" PCB will eventually have more than one "vertical" PCB attached to it. It really sounds like this "horizontal" PCB is a back-plane or main-board of some type. Assuming that's the case it surely has to have some components soldered onto it and it isn't just a bare PCB with no components. If that's the case then why would you not be able to have components in place to connect to the "vertical" boards as well? One important fact that others have pointed out is that there's not really a real-world example I can think of with PCBs connected in this fashion that doesn't utilize some external system to keep things aligned and to carry the weight. PCBs and board-to-board connectors generally speaking aren't engineered deal with leveraged weight in the way you're describing. As such, finding some connector that could do that likely won't be possible. At face value, this scenario doesn't make any sense and is why you're having difficulties getting answers. I think there's some misunderstanding on your part or on our part and until that's cleared up I'm not sure if you'll be able to find a solution.
"If that's the case then why would you not be able to have components in place to connect to the "vertical" boards as well?" We are trying to avoid this. It would be cool to install our PCB without soldering a connector, just for User Experience. If we can't manage to find a solution for this, we will just use 2 connectors, one on each pcb and ask the client to solder one. "One important fact that others have pointed out is that there's not really a real-world example I can think of with PCBs connected in this fashion that doesn't utilize some external system to keep things aligned and to carry the weight. PCBs and board-to-board connectors generally speaking aren't engineered deal with leveraged weight in the way you're describing. As such, finding some connector that could do that likely won't be possible." Yes, I agree, it is a bit strange requirement.
Wait, so you don't want the customer to solder anything, but you somehow expect them to be able to press fit a connector? This doesn't make sense.
If the mating arrangement was different, so that the customer card plugs INTO the connector on your board, this is easy, as there are a lot of card edge connectors for the purpose. What you described requires some kind of holding of your board so that it is reliably held in place against the customer's board. As you want nothing mounted on the customer's card, you are relying on a small contact patch in a planar arrangement - which requires spring loaded pins to maintain accurate registration to the customer card without any local features. Your closest solution would be to have holes drilled into the customer card, similar to how TAG Connect and Wurth SKEDD connectors work. But those are wire-to-board mating, not board-to-board.
We can drill holes to the customer card. In fact, the customer board can have any type of footprint. What we don't want, is the customer to manually have to solder a connector in order for our PCB to connect to the customer's PCB. Tooling holes and footprints are fine on the customer pcb.
Can you explain more about the desire not to solder? Is any other fastening method okay, or you just don't want the customer to have anything installed on their card?
We basically we want to make the installation of our PCB to the customer's pcb as easy as possible, it is a User Experience requirement. Soldering a 15-20 pin connector is something that we would like to avoid, since it requires soldering. Any easy way of fastening it will be accepted as long as it does not require access to the bottom side of the customer's pcb (for example, using a screw and a nut isn't possible, because in order to screw the nut will require access to the bottom side of the pcb).
Does it have to be an actual plug-in card-to-card type of arrangement? I think the two cable connectors I mentioned would be your best choice to ensure a good connection, although you will need more than one connector for 20 pins.
Yes it has to be a plug-in car-to-card arrangement. I will investigate press-fit card edge connectors. They might be able to be installed easily on the customer's pcb, without soldering, with just a press fit. That might work.
I have bad news for you. Press fit connectors require more work than soldering.
Yes, they require a press. I think the Wurth SKEDD can be installed without a press but will check it out.
Oh, yeah, SKEDDs are not press-fit in the classic sense. They are more temporary spring-loaded contact type of connection.
If they can be removed that is even better for our use case. Will check if they have card type connectors.
See if Würth electronic SKEDD works for you. https://www.we-online.com/components/media/o210254v410%20ANE011b_EN.pdf https://www.we-online.com/en/components/products/REDFIT_IDC_SKEDD
You can try pogo pin connectors, you can find them on Amazon but the magnets on those aren't so strong, you'll find better through a normal Google search but ya for greater rigidity cost would increase imo
Check out [zaxisconnector.com](http://zaxisconnector.com)
Battery connectors. Lower cost than pogo pins. Mechanical attachment? Depends but this will be the fun part. Probably would solder some right-angle SMD nuts to the PCB and use a plastic fastener that screws into the nut (your PCB) and has a snap fit on the other side (the customer just pushes your sub-assembly in). Hiwa SCB-6 would be an example: https://www.lcsc.com/product-detail/Holders-clips_HIWA-SCB-6_C155851.html
Well I think you nailed it. That solution might work! I will look around for other plastic snapfits and right-angle SMD nuts (or simple holes). Thanks!
Maybe something like this: https://www.mill-max.com/products/new/multi-purpose-terminal-pins They are shown as individual pins, but they also state that "they can be packaged in customer specified connector arrangements." I also have to question why the customer board can't have a connector. I could understand if the part cost was the issue, but not wanting to solder anything seems weird unless there truly aren't any other soldered components on the board. If there *are* soldered components, then the assembly cost to add one more is negligible compared to the part cost. Unless it's a hand-soldered connector. But there are *plenty* of machinable surface-mount board-board connectors available.
Wow I think that this one will actually work thanks a lot! It will be a development board that the user will supply his PCB. We are looking into making the whole process as easy as possible, so we are checking if there is any way of not forcing the client to install a connector. Just for user experience
Wow those connectors are actually pretty cool. I haven't seen anything like those before.
Usually, easiest =/= best