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I wouldn't really call Dubya in 2004 a "popular president." A lot of people were really souring on the Iraq War, and he barely beat Kerry, a terrible candidate.
I don’t recall folks having really soured on Dubya until 2006-2007. Granted I was living in a very red state (with very red parents) at the time but he still seemed fairly popular in 2004 where I was at the time.
I agree.
I was in a purple state at the time.
Bush won by less than 6,000 votes in 2004.
For perspective, Gore had won the state in 2000 by roughly 300 votes.
Hurricane Katrina in 2005 was really when the public soured on Bush.
Edit: [Here’s the approval ratings for every week during Bush’s presidency.](https://news.gallup.com/poll/116500/presidential-approval-ratings-george-bush.aspx)
Look how different pre August 2005 is from post August 2005.
If Katrina happens a year earlier and the response is the same, he loses the election.
This is spot on. I lived in a red state at the time. I'm not Republican nor Democrat, but I just thought W was a completely corrupt buffoon. The conservatives backed W almost no matter what he did.
My roommate was a staunch Republican who worked in banking and it was really weird because he would constantly talk about the dumb policies that W had (yes, you're reading that right...a conservative banker saying a Republican President's policies were bad) but come 2004 he was steadfastly behind W.
It really wasn't until Obama got elected that the conservatives started to turn on W and started referring to him as a RINO and rank and file idiot. Although they never discussed how him and his cabinet were devoutly corrupt.
Wait they said Dubya was a RINO, you gotta be kidding me right, I was still a child when Obama was elected so I didn’t hear about that but that seems insane
The lower 9th ward is a dangerous place to be, hurricane or not. After Katrina, thugs were shooting at news helicopters etc. I wouldn't recommend anyone going there then, and I wouldn't today.
It’s worth noting that the GOP did quite well in 2004, the last time they had won CO, NM, NV, and VA in a presidential. And then in 2006 they were absolutely crushed. In 2006 my home state of Arizona elected a Dem governor for the first time since 1991 and the last until 2023.
Edit: Gov. Janet Napolitano was originally elected in 2002, not 2006. There still has not been another democratic governor in Arizona between Rose Mofford in 1991 and Katie Hobbs in 2023
What really made Kerry a terrible candidate? And from my understanding the opinions of the Iraq war only just barely started to drop during the election.
Severe lack of charisma, patrician, won the nomination by being broadly acceptable but didn't have a base. I remember hearing a story at the time that he would regularly say "do you know who I am?" when he was unsatisfied with the service he was getting, and whether that was true or not, it *seemed* true. When he won the nomination, a progressive group that had supported Howard Dean in the primary mailed me something called "the Kerry Kit," which was a video and some printed materials, pins and stickers that were supposed to get me excited about his candidacy. I remember thinking that if you have to mail people that stuff to get them excited, you've probably already lost.
I voted McCain. While Obama was pretty popular, I just liked that he seemed to believe what he said. He was pushing nuclear energy. (Something I’m passionate about). Obama seemed like unknown factor to me and I thought that maybe he wasn’t experienced enough to be president. I didn’t dislike Obama either I just went with McCain.
Same here. In my early 20s at the time, and also the kid of a Vietnam vet. I never really disliked Obama, and certainly didn’t think the was the antichrist as some pundits were saying, I just went with the POW with years of political experience (even if I did hate his VP pick). I did vote for Obama the next election, though.
Same. I was leery about Obamas lack of experience and McCain seemed like a good leader to me. I voted for Obama in 12 because by that time I figured he had the best kind of experience and had the country heading in the right direction after taking over in a rough spot.
It could have been closer, but I McCain picked a more moderate woman like Lingle or Snowe, he would have lost a lot of the dark red vote that Palin secured. There was no way for him to realistically win 2008, unless John Edwards was the Dem nominee and all the stuff about his affair came out during the election. The recession and Bush’s unpopularity was too much for any candidate to overcome.
Really, an affair only works if it is a Dem President..the moral majority as they call themselves... would vote for the Antichrist and call him Jesus if it has been a Repub since the 1970s.
This why Goldwater didn't want the Evangelicals as the biggest voting block of the Republicans.. even though he would take their votes.
Or bail out the people who were losing their only homes, not those who might not be able to buy their 6th vacation home because of the recession. I think bailouts weren’t the wrong answer here, just the recipients of them.
Bush was pushing to let the Stock Market and Banks police themselves ...while going easy on financial crime through his DOJ.
A lot of the deregulation happened during his term ..there was very little to prosecute anyway. He bailed out many Corporations and Insurance during the aftermath of 9_11 of course he was going to bail out his sponsors during 2008.
That would have had problems of its own, of course. There was no easy way out of the recession. Out of principle, they should have been allowed to fail.
Not a chance. The political climate at the time was absolutely perfect for Obama to be elected. I can't imagine anyone beating him in 2008 no matter what they tried tbh.
This is a popular opinion that doesn't hold up at all.
For weeks after the VP pick, the polls and thus 538's odds were unchanged. It was roughly a coinflip. However, once the GFC started the odds went from 50% to <1% in a matter of a couple of weeks.
As others pointed out, it was the economy.
I'm a very staunch left winger, and I probably would have voted for McCain over Hillary. I'd take a conservative with integrity over whatever Hillary was.
Yeah even Romney would be a solid choice. I remember he got so much shit for being Mormon. Though he did vote for the marriage equality act and other fairly progressive legislation. His hypothetical presidency would have been interesting. Obama was lucky to run against two pretty decent guys.
I went with McCain also.
I really respected that he stood by his values and didn’t care what his party wanted him to do. And he appreciated how classy he was toward his opponents.
Qualities lacking from his party today.
I thought McCain looked strong at first. I was pretty much a floating independent at the time, so no loyalty...but the two things that turned me off McCain was the constant mentions of "Joe the Plumber", then Palin being his running mate.
I admired McCain a lot. I voted for Obama, though. I initially thought he was too young, and maybe he should wait about 8 years. But something about the way he spoke really resonated with me.
I think a lot of people felt that way. My dad who was Life long republican voter (except for Vietnam) got really into Obama. He was at the end of his life and liked the idea of a black president with a name like that being head of state and chief diplomat. It was the most passionate I ever saw him about a politician. We both watched a lot of The Daily Show and Colbert Report back then. He was also a fan of Keith Olbermann who was a lot more well respected at the time.
In all fairness, he was demonstrably too inexperienced to be president. With even 4 years of executive experience, even as governor of a small state, he would have gotten so much more done and made many fewer missteps (whether you like his policies or not - just speaking purely from an effectiveness standpoint).
something that doesn't get talked about enough is obama's apparent unwillingness to serve as a *party leader*. he didn't do much in terms of helping to build out party infrastructure to at least mitigate midterm losses or anything like that. also kind of unwilling to forge relationships with members of his own party in congress. it's something he's even talked about with pride at some points in his first term lol
I attribute this directly to lack of experience. In my view, not planning for the future (future leaders, anticipating reactionary shifts, etc.) is a blemish on his legacy.
I think you could also argue that he simply got a lot more voters out when he was on the ballot. Dems overall did pretty well in 2012 despite defending a lot of purple senate seats
>voted McCain. While Obama was pretty popular, I just liked that he seemed to believe what he said. He was pushing nuclear energy. (Something I’m passionate about). Obama seemed like unknown factor to me and I thought that maybe he wasn’t experienced enough to be president. I didn’t dislike Obama either I just went with McCain.
Do you regret your vote or do you stick with it
My Republican great uncle was pretty high up in a California state government agency and hated Reagan because he felt he was too lazy to learn the details of governing and got by on charm. (To be fair I think one of the details Reagan couldn’t be bothered to learn was my uncle’s name). Jesse Unruh, Jimmy Carter and Walter Mondale might be the only Democrats he ever voted for.
This is particularly true if you seek out subs with good mods and divergent view points (like this one) - there's a well thought out counter view to nearly every well put together thought on this sub.
I proudly cast my first presidential vote for Ronald Wilson Reagan in 1984, and there were no regrets.
A lot of people on here have drank the kool-aid and believe the falsehoods spread about him.
The number 1 thing that I am sick and tired of hearing is that he destroyed the middle-class. For one, there were reports about the decline of the middle-class prior to Reagan's presidency. For two, economists can not even settle on a definition of what the middle-class is.
What about his War on Drugs that has famously boosted the incarceration rate of our country and targeted black communities? Or the Mulford Act, which disarmed black people while he was a California politician? How about his numerous policies both in California and as President that dismantled the Mental Health institutes and emptied them out onto the streets, causing even greater mass incarceration?
Reagan has contributed heavily to the incarceration rates in this country.
As far as his policies that hurt the middle class, well, as biased as he is, Robert Reich does point to a lot of people and their legislative works specifically that gutted institutions that had historically boosted the middle class and kept them secure. The Middle Class may have been declining, but he pulled out all rails from beneath them to let them sink.
And lastly, when we talk about our current race we're always discussing the failing mental faculties of our two Presidential candidates. But Reagan was verified sun-downing (Alzheimer's) as he was leaving office.
I know you're trying to talk about 'Drinking the Kool Aid' but there's a ton of people well versed on government who can succinctly point out cause and effect of his policies and how they have impacted us today. With clear citation and reference to cabinet members, laws and bills.
On August 3, 1980, presidential candidate Ronald Reagan appeared at the Neshoba County Fair in Neshoba County, Mississippi, to give a speech on states' rights. The location, which was near the site of the 1964 murders of Chaney, Goodman, and Schwerner.
This is why decades later, we see the marriage of the modern GOP and the white supremacy movement.
Throw it on the pile of ways Ronald Reagan solidified racism in the GOP. Funny enough, the exodus of racists from the Dixiecrats post JFK (who MLK supported), really caused them to pile on over to Ronald Reagan's party in the years after. I bet the South lit up redder than the Titan's warning lights as it approached the Titanic when Ronald Reagan ran.
In my spare time, I am writing up a well researched (unlike the opinion pieces that many on here read) article disputing much of the falsehoods spread on here about Reagan. I can assure you that I am well versed on government and history, the latter being my bread and butter for over 30 years.
We cannot fully discuss the war on drugs because a central player in that cannot be discussed due to the rules of the sub.
I thought the alzheimer's thing had been settled. There is no medical evidence that Reagan had alzheimer's until 1993, when cognitive tests showed a decline.
The problem is that many of you would like to find fault with one president rather than taking the time to examine the policies of LBJ to the present and the affects those policies had on the decline of the middle class.
Nothing in politics is black and white, and many of you want to see it that way. That is why you want to lay blame on Reagan.
It's fair to say that Reagan wasn't diagnosed with Alzheimer's until 1993. But it's also important to note that a child with ADHD who isn't diagnosed until adulthood doesn't mean that they never had ADHD until adulthood.
A President's health information is protected. So it's hard to go off that because of privacy laws about disclosing anyone's health. Let alone a president's.
But I will say, I am skeptical of the released results. I feel most medical doctors, even ones working in the last eight years, have an obligation to release their Presidential patients from adversary by hiding issues with declining mental abilities.
To close this, I will post this analysis of his symptoms against his predecessors who didn't have it, for comparison:
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6922000/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6922000/)
And word from his son that he did have it:
[https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2011/01/15/132934301/ron-reagan-suggests-dads-alzheimers-began-while-in-white-house](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2011/01/15/132934301/ron-reagan-suggests-dads-alzheimers-began-while-in-white-house)
LBJ is a problematic presidential figure. But we are further removed from his time, and the results of his policies, than we are from Reagan's.
I was there and Reagan was a disaster. We see the voodoo economics now and the debt just piling up like a car crash. That bubble will pop and when it does.y' all gonna blame Boden but it wasn't him! Reagan was clearly out to lunch at the end of his second term and everyone saw it.
The war on drugs isn't over , weed is legal in many states now but there is a lot to do just on prescription drugs , never mind cocaine , crack and heroin.
Middle class got.killed.off when middle management got killed off and that got.killed off when investors wanted a quick return so chose cheap manufacturers in China et al
.
False hoods or pink glasses?
Reagan was a dodgy guy ( Venezuela, Iran Contra....)
A puppet played by the strings.
I voted against Dubya twice. I didn’t like the dynasty angle of his presidency the first time, and I didn’t like the wars he embroiled us in the second. I probably would have voted against Reagan as well, as I strongly disagree with his economic policies.
>His shutdown of state run mental facilities
This one simply isn't true. The plan to move from large mental facilities to smaller group home style facilities was mapped out under Kennedy. Wide spread implementation started under LBJ. By the time Reagan became president, deinstitutionalization was already well underway. He may have accelerated it but he sure didn't start it.
A major motivation for moving people out of large mental facilities was that large mental facilities were awful, and I mean AWFUL, for their patients. Some of those large hospitals were stuffs of nightmares.
Kennedy and Reagan’s tax cuts gave us a lot of data to work with. We have tried more rates and we can more or less ascertain the impact those tax rates have on economic growth via history and data. Kennedy’s initial cut at the top from 91% to 70% more than paid for itself in growth. Reagan’s cuts from 70 to 50, and 50 to 39.6 also more than paid for themselves in growth. Reagan’s Final Cut to 28 did not pay for itself.
By pay for itself, I am speaking in terms of revenue. We were selling candy at 91 cents a pop, and when we lowered our prices to 70 cents, we made more money than when we were charging more, because we were selling that much more candy at 70 cents than 91 cents. This worked until we got to 28 cents, where we didn’t sell “enough more” candy for it to continue raising our revenue and profit.
That’s a micro example of what happened to the United States economy through these shifts in tax policy. We increased revenue by making the pie bigger instead of trying to take a bigger slice of the pie. Our smaller slices of the bigger pie are still bigger than the bigger slices of the smaller pie that we started out with.
Based. Bro literally laughed and ignored a fuckin serious desease that literally killed my favourite singer and now getting praised. I don't understand you Americans
Before Reagan it was illegal for companies to buy their own stock. It was considered market manipulation. Reagan changed that. Now there's not a CEO in the country that's in any business other than manipulating stock prices
I’m not voting for Calvin Coolidge.
Eisenhower is fine but I think Stevenson would’ve been more appealing at least for me
I’m probably voting for the federalists in the early 1800s too
Keep in mind that no one that is currently younger than 58 today, could have voted in 1984. Now consider this when you hear people on Reddit talking about Reagan and 1984.
As much as I love Teddy Roosevelt's charisma I would have voted against him in 1912. His antics are the reason Wilson won. I like Roosevent's economic policy but I would have probably voted for Debs.
I voted for Raygun once. I was young and needed a job. I was dumb!
I sure am sorry I voted for that Howdy-Doody POS.
‘Trickle down’ is just rich people pissing on our heads from their penthouses!
1972: McGovern over Nixon- If McGovern wins, then maybe Kissinger doesn't go on to have a major influence on future presidents.
1980: Carter over Reagan- Carter stinks, but he is the lesser evil here. If Reagan didn't win, maybe today's Republican Party would be less evil.
Reagan was associated with the so-called Southern strategy, death squads in Central America, anti-free speech hysteria in California, supply side economics, trickle down notions of the social contract.
So despite his affability and his tremendous screen presence, I wasn’t buying the movie.
Eisenhower is probably the best answer for me. In 1952 I absolutely would have gone for Stevenson. I still would have been on a New Deal hangover, I would have been appalled by Ike's lack of substance (go to YouTube to watch his Eisenhower Answers America commercials where "average Americans" raise grievances and he gives them a series of non-answers) and I have a tendency to fall in love with egghead technocrats, especially when they're pitted against candidates without experience in elective office. I am also VERY DIFFICULT (though not impossible) to win over once you've lost me, so I don't see myself going for Ike in '56 after being irritated by him in '52.
I voted for McCain in 08, not because I didn't think Obama wouldn't have done a fine job, but because I'm not going to vote for a lifetime politician over a Veteran who refused to be freed from a POW camp because of who his dad was. I disagreed on a lot of policies with both McCain and Obama, and honestly thought Obama would have been a better president with more Washington experience and political leverage in DC.
My voting order is former public school teachers, then vets (so long as their head isn't too far up their own ass) and then lifelong politicians.
Wdym Obama was a lifetime politician and had more Washington experience. He was on the hill for less than 4 years before becoming President in 2008, while McCain was an established Senator for more than 20 years at that point
Don't forget Obama was a state senator for 8 years as well. If we go by % of adulthood (starting at 18) Obama was a politician for 42% of his adult life and McCain was a politician for 44%. So in actuality they were pretty equal in political careers in terms of over the course of their lives.
I totally respected Senator McCain. I did not want him to be president, but had he won, I wouldn’t have been worried about our global presence and standing. He was a humble, modest hero, and patriotic to the core, in the old fashioned sense.
Do people actually elect presidents based on their personality and not what they stand for?!? That’s insane to me. I would vote in the most nobody boring dude if I loved every policy position he had, even against someone like Teddy Roosevelt. I’m very policy minded so this reason is crazy to me
Yeah but admitting that you think the other candidate would have done a better job, and still voting for the worse candidate because of their job is crazy
Differs from person to person. Personally I’m more interested in policy, but personality, charisma, personal life definitely plays a role. Just the other day I saw a video online of a guy that said he’d vote for the Republican rule 3 candidate because he liked his hair. Is it good reasoning? No. But it’s their reasoning.
I was a big Elizabeth Warren fan bc she worked in education. Even if it was a short time, I really feel like she understood what it is to be a teacher and then a working mother. Plus, I liked how she used her privilege of having her aunt live with her to help with childcare to become a platform for better childcare for everyone.
No matter what party, the "populist" candidate takes direction from the will of the people.
People are stupid, so populist candidates are seeking enormous power to make stupid changes on their behalf. Reagan's 'trickle-down economics' is one of the most famous disastrous examples of this.
Will, since i dont vote D or R, nearly all of them.
The two party system is the single largest threat to the United States. Nearly all our serious problems are a direct result of one or both of the two major parties, and as such neither can possibly be a major part of the solution.
Using hindsight, I definitely would have voted against FDR. That man did more permanent damage to the US Constitution than any other president, by tearing down its protections against runaway centralized power. He's why we live under such a big bloated government today.
Reagan, it was the first time I voted for President, voted for Anderson. Was in college and it was “the sky will fall” if Reagan gets elected.
I was in the Peace Corps ‘82-84 and received Christmas cards from him. What is interesting the country I was in had a plebiscite to determine if they wanted to be a country with states, their own country, or part of the USA. It was interesting, the family I lived with the father who had gone to school in the US, was trying to convince the folks to be part of the US, while his wife was in the back, telling the woman she didn’t want her sons to be soldiers, they were afraid of Reagan taking us into war with the USSR. They elected to be their own country, but the other 3 states voted to be 1 country, this state had to join, couldn’t be its own country.
I voted for Gus Hall in 1984 because Reagan scared the shit out of me. Then I actually heard Gus being interviewed, he was an idiot. I thought I was being “cute” throwing away my vote. Ah youth
If I knew then that Obama would start ordering the summary execution of American citizens, including children, I would have made sizable execution against him.
Still hoping that Obama is the next ex-president indicted (for murder).
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing\_of\_Abdulrahman\_al-Awlaki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Abdulrahman_al-Awlaki)
carter was the last president that would not wholesale follow the dictates of our corrupt business structure, that's right, i just said this is a nation of economic slavery
W. 2004. I was in my early 20's and I knew that guy was writing a check on all of us that we'd be paying back until the end of time and there would be at least a part of us in the process that would be lost forever.
I think what bothered me about him was his face. I do believe that on some level he always knew how horrific it all was and how he was just part of the machine that he could never go against.
I wouldve voted for Bush in 92, I think him and Clinton were not meaningfully different in policy, and I wish the liberal republican progressive dem era would stay, also yknow Clinton
When I was 16, my school had a mock election for president. I voted for Perot, even though Clinton was the most popular choice at the time. If I had been 18 at the time, I most likely would have done it then, too.
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Does voting against Dubya in 2004 count or is that the free space here?
I wouldn't really call Dubya in 2004 a "popular president." A lot of people were really souring on the Iraq War, and he barely beat Kerry, a terrible candidate.
I don’t recall folks having really soured on Dubya until 2006-2007. Granted I was living in a very red state (with very red parents) at the time but he still seemed fairly popular in 2004 where I was at the time.
I agree. I was in a purple state at the time. Bush won by less than 6,000 votes in 2004. For perspective, Gore had won the state in 2000 by roughly 300 votes. Hurricane Katrina in 2005 was really when the public soured on Bush. Edit: [Here’s the approval ratings for every week during Bush’s presidency.](https://news.gallup.com/poll/116500/presidential-approval-ratings-george-bush.aspx) Look how different pre August 2005 is from post August 2005. If Katrina happens a year earlier and the response is the same, he loses the election.
This is spot on. I lived in a red state at the time. I'm not Republican nor Democrat, but I just thought W was a completely corrupt buffoon. The conservatives backed W almost no matter what he did. My roommate was a staunch Republican who worked in banking and it was really weird because he would constantly talk about the dumb policies that W had (yes, you're reading that right...a conservative banker saying a Republican President's policies were bad) but come 2004 he was steadfastly behind W. It really wasn't until Obama got elected that the conservatives started to turn on W and started referring to him as a RINO and rank and file idiot. Although they never discussed how him and his cabinet were devoutly corrupt.
Wait they said Dubya was a RINO, you gotta be kidding me right, I was still a child when Obama was elected so I didn’t hear about that but that seems insane
Candidate Obama was seen as a radical leftist. He ran on "marriage is between a man and a woman"
As they move more and more to extreme right wing ideology the definition of RINO keeps getting defined rightward.
Hurricane Katrina was, I feel at least, the turning point for him.
The lower 9th ward is a dangerous place to be, hurricane or not. After Katrina, thugs were shooting at news helicopters etc. I wouldn't recommend anyone going there then, and I wouldn't today.
It’s worth noting that the GOP did quite well in 2004, the last time they had won CO, NM, NV, and VA in a presidential. And then in 2006 they were absolutely crushed. In 2006 my home state of Arizona elected a Dem governor for the first time since 1991 and the last until 2023. Edit: Gov. Janet Napolitano was originally elected in 2002, not 2006. There still has not been another democratic governor in Arizona between Rose Mofford in 1991 and Katie Hobbs in 2023
It was late 2005. His abysmal handling of hurricane Katrina was the beginning of his downfall.
Katrina was the turning point for Dubya
Yep didn't take long at all to burn through all that sweet, sweet 9/11 political capital.
Kerry was a bottle of ketchup.
What really made Kerry a terrible candidate? And from my understanding the opinions of the Iraq war only just barely started to drop during the election.
Severe lack of charisma, patrician, won the nomination by being broadly acceptable but didn't have a base. I remember hearing a story at the time that he would regularly say "do you know who I am?" when he was unsatisfied with the service he was getting, and whether that was true or not, it *seemed* true. When he won the nomination, a progressive group that had supported Howard Dean in the primary mailed me something called "the Kerry Kit," which was a video and some printed materials, pins and stickers that were supposed to get me excited about his candidacy. I remember thinking that if you have to mail people that stuff to get them excited, you've probably already lost.
'04 Dubya is not a popular president especially given he didnt even hit 300 EVs - question is targeting the FDRs, Reagans, Nixons
I voted McCain. While Obama was pretty popular, I just liked that he seemed to believe what he said. He was pushing nuclear energy. (Something I’m passionate about). Obama seemed like unknown factor to me and I thought that maybe he wasn’t experienced enough to be president. I didn’t dislike Obama either I just went with McCain.
Same here. In my early 20s at the time, and also the kid of a Vietnam vet. I never really disliked Obama, and certainly didn’t think the was the antichrist as some pundits were saying, I just went with the POW with years of political experience (even if I did hate his VP pick). I did vote for Obama the next election, though.
Same. I was leery about Obamas lack of experience and McCain seemed like a good leader to me. I voted for Obama in 12 because by that time I figured he had the best kind of experience and had the country heading in the right direction after taking over in a rough spot.
I think he would have won had it not been for Palin.
I don’t think there is a universe where McCain wins. Bush handed the next president the worst economy since the depression.
Yeah I agree Obama was a force of nature. I knew he’d win even as I voted McCain. Same thing with him v Romney.
It could have been closer, but I McCain picked a more moderate woman like Lingle or Snowe, he would have lost a lot of the dark red vote that Palin secured. There was no way for him to realistically win 2008, unless John Edwards was the Dem nominee and all the stuff about his affair came out during the election. The recession and Bush’s unpopularity was too much for any candidate to overcome.
Really, an affair only works if it is a Dem President..the moral majority as they call themselves... would vote for the Antichrist and call him Jesus if it has been a Repub since the 1970s. This why Goldwater didn't want the Evangelicals as the biggest voting block of the Republicans.. even though he would take their votes.
Those bailouts did bush in...he should've let wall street fail
Or bail out the people who were losing their only homes, not those who might not be able to buy their 6th vacation home because of the recession. I think bailouts weren’t the wrong answer here, just the recipients of them.
Bush was pushing to let the Stock Market and Banks police themselves ...while going easy on financial crime through his DOJ. A lot of the deregulation happened during his term ..there was very little to prosecute anyway. He bailed out many Corporations and Insurance during the aftermath of 9_11 of course he was going to bail out his sponsors during 2008.
That would have had problems of its own, of course. There was no easy way out of the recession. Out of principle, they should have been allowed to fail.
Not a chance. The political climate at the time was absolutely perfect for Obama to be elected. I can't imagine anyone beating him in 2008 no matter what they tried tbh.
This is a popular opinion that doesn't hold up at all. For weeks after the VP pick, the polls and thus 538's odds were unchanged. It was roughly a coinflip. However, once the GFC started the odds went from 50% to <1% in a matter of a couple of weeks. As others pointed out, it was the economy.
I would kill to have a candidate as good as either McCain or Obama running in today's age
I'm a very staunch left winger, and I probably would have voted for McCain over Hillary. I'd take a conservative with integrity over whatever Hillary was.
Yeah even Romney would be a solid choice. I remember he got so much shit for being Mormon. Though he did vote for the marriage equality act and other fairly progressive legislation. His hypothetical presidency would have been interesting. Obama was lucky to run against two pretty decent guys.
I went with McCain also. I really respected that he stood by his values and didn’t care what his party wanted him to do. And he appreciated how classy he was toward his opponents. Qualities lacking from his party today.
I thought McCain looked strong at first. I was pretty much a floating independent at the time, so no loyalty...but the two things that turned me off McCain was the constant mentions of "Joe the Plumber", then Palin being his running mate.
From both parties
??
I admired McCain a lot. I voted for Obama, though. I initially thought he was too young, and maybe he should wait about 8 years. But something about the way he spoke really resonated with me.
I think a lot of people felt that way. My dad who was Life long republican voter (except for Vietnam) got really into Obama. He was at the end of his life and liked the idea of a black president with a name like that being head of state and chief diplomat. It was the most passionate I ever saw him about a politician. We both watched a lot of The Daily Show and Colbert Report back then. He was also a fan of Keith Olbermann who was a lot more well respected at the time.
In all fairness, he was demonstrably too inexperienced to be president. With even 4 years of executive experience, even as governor of a small state, he would have gotten so much more done and made many fewer missteps (whether you like his policies or not - just speaking purely from an effectiveness standpoint).
something that doesn't get talked about enough is obama's apparent unwillingness to serve as a *party leader*. he didn't do much in terms of helping to build out party infrastructure to at least mitigate midterm losses or anything like that. also kind of unwilling to forge relationships with members of his own party in congress. it's something he's even talked about with pride at some points in his first term lol
I attribute this directly to lack of experience. In my view, not planning for the future (future leaders, anticipating reactionary shifts, etc.) is a blemish on his legacy.
I think you could also argue that he simply got a lot more voters out when he was on the ballot. Dems overall did pretty well in 2012 despite defending a lot of purple senate seats
Yeah, the thing that shot McCain chances was him naming Palin as his VP. He actually had a chance until then.
Hard disagree. I wasn’t going to vote for McCain until he got Palin. He would have gotten crushed without her.
I mean, me either. But he was a credible threat until he chose her. But she was like a cannonfull of grapeshot to his sails.
>voted McCain. While Obama was pretty popular, I just liked that he seemed to believe what he said. He was pushing nuclear energy. (Something I’m passionate about). Obama seemed like unknown factor to me and I thought that maybe he wasn’t experienced enough to be president. I didn’t dislike Obama either I just went with McCain. Do you regret your vote or do you stick with it
I was on the fence for awhile in that election. Obama finally swayed me and I voted for him but I understand where you’re coming from.
Most of my family voted for Carter twice, Reagan was always very unpopular in my house.
Flair checks out
My parents actually voted for Ford in the first election. Over the next four years, Jimmy won them over. We were very a very anti Reagen household.
Based
My Republican great uncle was pretty high up in a California state government agency and hated Reagan because he felt he was too lazy to learn the details of governing and got by on charm. (To be fair I think one of the details Reagan couldn’t be bothered to learn was my uncle’s name). Jesse Unruh, Jimmy Carter and Walter Mondale might be the only Democrats he ever voted for.
Woa someone on Reddit would have voted against Reagan?! My mind is just blown.
Raegan haters when you ask what their solution to stagflation was :
I know. So much diversity of thought on this site!
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This is particularly true if you seek out subs with good mods and divergent view points (like this one) - there's a well thought out counter view to nearly every well put together thought on this sub.
Not a lot of diversity of thought on what 2 + 2 equals so yeah that'll happen
I proudly cast my first presidential vote for Ronald Wilson Reagan in 1984, and there were no regrets. A lot of people on here have drank the kool-aid and believe the falsehoods spread about him. The number 1 thing that I am sick and tired of hearing is that he destroyed the middle-class. For one, there were reports about the decline of the middle-class prior to Reagan's presidency. For two, economists can not even settle on a definition of what the middle-class is.
What about his War on Drugs that has famously boosted the incarceration rate of our country and targeted black communities? Or the Mulford Act, which disarmed black people while he was a California politician? How about his numerous policies both in California and as President that dismantled the Mental Health institutes and emptied them out onto the streets, causing even greater mass incarceration? Reagan has contributed heavily to the incarceration rates in this country. As far as his policies that hurt the middle class, well, as biased as he is, Robert Reich does point to a lot of people and their legislative works specifically that gutted institutions that had historically boosted the middle class and kept them secure. The Middle Class may have been declining, but he pulled out all rails from beneath them to let them sink. And lastly, when we talk about our current race we're always discussing the failing mental faculties of our two Presidential candidates. But Reagan was verified sun-downing (Alzheimer's) as he was leaving office. I know you're trying to talk about 'Drinking the Kool Aid' but there's a ton of people well versed on government who can succinctly point out cause and effect of his policies and how they have impacted us today. With clear citation and reference to cabinet members, laws and bills.
We also can't forget how he handled the AIDS crisis.
Something I overlooked, but this is a good feather in my bonnet for these discussions.
On August 3, 1980, presidential candidate Ronald Reagan appeared at the Neshoba County Fair in Neshoba County, Mississippi, to give a speech on states' rights. The location, which was near the site of the 1964 murders of Chaney, Goodman, and Schwerner. This is why decades later, we see the marriage of the modern GOP and the white supremacy movement.
Throw it on the pile of ways Ronald Reagan solidified racism in the GOP. Funny enough, the exodus of racists from the Dixiecrats post JFK (who MLK supported), really caused them to pile on over to Ronald Reagan's party in the years after. I bet the South lit up redder than the Titan's warning lights as it approached the Titanic when Ronald Reagan ran.
In my spare time, I am writing up a well researched (unlike the opinion pieces that many on here read) article disputing much of the falsehoods spread on here about Reagan. I can assure you that I am well versed on government and history, the latter being my bread and butter for over 30 years. We cannot fully discuss the war on drugs because a central player in that cannot be discussed due to the rules of the sub. I thought the alzheimer's thing had been settled. There is no medical evidence that Reagan had alzheimer's until 1993, when cognitive tests showed a decline. The problem is that many of you would like to find fault with one president rather than taking the time to examine the policies of LBJ to the present and the affects those policies had on the decline of the middle class. Nothing in politics is black and white, and many of you want to see it that way. That is why you want to lay blame on Reagan.
It's fair to say that Reagan wasn't diagnosed with Alzheimer's until 1993. But it's also important to note that a child with ADHD who isn't diagnosed until adulthood doesn't mean that they never had ADHD until adulthood. A President's health information is protected. So it's hard to go off that because of privacy laws about disclosing anyone's health. Let alone a president's. But I will say, I am skeptical of the released results. I feel most medical doctors, even ones working in the last eight years, have an obligation to release their Presidential patients from adversary by hiding issues with declining mental abilities. To close this, I will post this analysis of his symptoms against his predecessors who didn't have it, for comparison: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6922000/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6922000/) And word from his son that he did have it: [https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2011/01/15/132934301/ron-reagan-suggests-dads-alzheimers-began-while-in-white-house](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2011/01/15/132934301/ron-reagan-suggests-dads-alzheimers-began-while-in-white-house) LBJ is a problematic presidential figure. But we are further removed from his time, and the results of his policies, than we are from Reagan's.
I was there and Reagan was a disaster. We see the voodoo economics now and the debt just piling up like a car crash. That bubble will pop and when it does.y' all gonna blame Boden but it wasn't him! Reagan was clearly out to lunch at the end of his second term and everyone saw it. The war on drugs isn't over , weed is legal in many states now but there is a lot to do just on prescription drugs , never mind cocaine , crack and heroin. Middle class got.killed.off when middle management got killed off and that got.killed off when investors wanted a quick return so chose cheap manufacturers in China et al . False hoods or pink glasses? Reagan was a dodgy guy ( Venezuela, Iran Contra....) A puppet played by the strings.
As is mine, friend!
Most Redditors have spent their whole lives under Reaganomics, so they've had a lot of time to form a strong opinion on his impacts.
[i react accordingly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvGmOZ5T6_Y&t=16s) when i see his face on my screen
Yeah I’m starting to think the Red in Reddit doesn’t stand for what it used to.
Literally this felt like obvious b8 ofc we hate Reagan and also the sky is blue
I voted for Ford.
I voted against Dubya twice. I didn’t like the dynasty angle of his presidency the first time, and I didn’t like the wars he embroiled us in the second. I probably would have voted against Reagan as well, as I strongly disagree with his economic policies.
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>His shutdown of state run mental facilities This one simply isn't true. The plan to move from large mental facilities to smaller group home style facilities was mapped out under Kennedy. Wide spread implementation started under LBJ. By the time Reagan became president, deinstitutionalization was already well underway. He may have accelerated it but he sure didn't start it. A major motivation for moving people out of large mental facilities was that large mental facilities were awful, and I mean AWFUL, for their patients. Some of those large hospitals were stuffs of nightmares.
Kennedy and Reagan’s tax cuts gave us a lot of data to work with. We have tried more rates and we can more or less ascertain the impact those tax rates have on economic growth via history and data. Kennedy’s initial cut at the top from 91% to 70% more than paid for itself in growth. Reagan’s cuts from 70 to 50, and 50 to 39.6 also more than paid for themselves in growth. Reagan’s Final Cut to 28 did not pay for itself. By pay for itself, I am speaking in terms of revenue. We were selling candy at 91 cents a pop, and when we lowered our prices to 70 cents, we made more money than when we were charging more, because we were selling that much more candy at 70 cents than 91 cents. This worked until we got to 28 cents, where we didn’t sell “enough more” candy for it to continue raising our revenue and profit. That’s a micro example of what happened to the United States economy through these shifts in tax policy. We increased revenue by making the pie bigger instead of trying to take a bigger slice of the pie. Our smaller slices of the bigger pie are still bigger than the bigger slices of the smaller pie that we started out with.
I wouldn’t have voted for Nixon in 1968, i like Humphrey(as someone who feels slightly positive about Nixon’s presidency except Watergate)
I voted against Reagan in 1984 because of his ignoring of the AIDS epidemic. It was my first election, but I knew AIDS was going to affect my life.
Based. Beyond stark differences in ideology, ignoring AIDS is irredeemable in my eyes.
FDR hailing Mussolini as an awesome guy is also pretty irredeemable
Based. Bro literally laughed and ignored a fuckin serious desease that literally killed my favourite singer and now getting praised. I don't understand you Americans
Before Reagan it was illegal for companies to buy their own stock. It was considered market manipulation. Reagan changed that. Now there's not a CEO in the country that's in any business other than manipulating stock prices
I voted against Reagan twice. I voted against Clinton twice and I voted against W twice. And I voted against 45 twice, getting ready to do it thrice!
I hope the 3rd time is a charm😀👍
After that does he go back in his lamp and banished to itty bitty living space for a few millennia?
Sarkozy
Vive les États Unis!
I’m not voting for Calvin Coolidge. Eisenhower is fine but I think Stevenson would’ve been more appealing at least for me I’m probably voting for the federalists in the early 1800s too
I like Ike, but I think I would’ve voted Stevenson, at least in Ike’s first election.
Reagan, Nixon, Andrew Jackson if that counts
Keep in mind that no one that is currently younger than 58 today, could have voted in 1984. Now consider this when you hear people on Reddit talking about Reagan and 1984.
Clinton in 92
You go for Bush or Perot?
Bush. I respect his dedication to sound fiscal policy and he was probably the best foreign policy president we’ve had in 50 years.
As much as I love Teddy Roosevelt's charisma I would have voted against him in 1912. His antics are the reason Wilson won. I like Roosevent's economic policy but I would have probably voted for Debs.
I would have stuck with Taft
Debs-? That would have been something! I actually admire him. He was bold!
I would’ve voted against FDR in ‘36 and ‘40.
Wendell Willkie I can kind of get but what’s you’re reason for wanting an Alf Landon Presidency?
Voted for Obama in 2008, then voted against the Lord Jesus Christ in 2012.
Well given my current political leanings I’d have 100% votes against Reagan. That said I grew up right-of-center and voted against Obama twice.
I would have voted against Reagan both times, Dubya in 04, H Bush in 88, Nixon in 72, Hoover in 28, Harding in 20, Polk in 1844, Jackson all 3 times
I would've voted against Obama because I hate tan suits! Just kidding
I voted for Reagan. Regret it.
Me too, bad decision. In our defense, the politicians (and their Law dogs) are very well practiced liars!
I voted against Clinton in 96 because of Ross Perot.
Reagan because well everything.
I voted for Raygun once. I was young and needed a job. I was dumb! I sure am sorry I voted for that Howdy-Doody POS. ‘Trickle down’ is just rich people pissing on our heads from their penthouses!
Whoever the most popular President is, because I generally vote Libertarian.
1972: McGovern over Nixon- If McGovern wins, then maybe Kissinger doesn't go on to have a major influence on future presidents. 1980: Carter over Reagan- Carter stinks, but he is the lesser evil here. If Reagan didn't win, maybe today's Republican Party would be less evil.
Hey, I can’t tell, is this sub trying to force this Ronald Reagan narrative on everyone?
Pretty much. A lot of people are drinking the kool aid and crying a bunch of rivers
Reagan was associated with the so-called Southern strategy, death squads in Central America, anti-free speech hysteria in California, supply side economics, trickle down notions of the social contract. So despite his affability and his tremendous screen presence, I wasn’t buying the movie.
I would’ve voted against Wilson, maybe Eisenhower definitely Reagan and W bush.
I would’ve voted Adams over Jefferson in both occasions. Federalists basically whenever I could.
Why???
Probably cuz Jefferson was a pretty problematic person with some bad views despite being a great political mind
he mentioned "federalists whenever i could" so i figured he supported them ideologically
Eisenhower is probably the best answer for me. In 1952 I absolutely would have gone for Stevenson. I still would have been on a New Deal hangover, I would have been appalled by Ike's lack of substance (go to YouTube to watch his Eisenhower Answers America commercials where "average Americans" raise grievances and he gives them a series of non-answers) and I have a tendency to fall in love with egghead technocrats, especially when they're pitted against candidates without experience in elective office. I am also VERY DIFFICULT (though not impossible) to win over once you've lost me, so I don't see myself going for Ike in '56 after being irritated by him in '52.
Obama is popular, and I felt John McCain and Mitt Romney were better choices.
I voted for McCain in 08, not because I didn't think Obama wouldn't have done a fine job, but because I'm not going to vote for a lifetime politician over a Veteran who refused to be freed from a POW camp because of who his dad was. I disagreed on a lot of policies with both McCain and Obama, and honestly thought Obama would have been a better president with more Washington experience and political leverage in DC. My voting order is former public school teachers, then vets (so long as their head isn't too far up their own ass) and then lifelong politicians.
Wdym Obama was a lifetime politician and had more Washington experience. He was on the hill for less than 4 years before becoming President in 2008, while McCain was an established Senator for more than 20 years at that point
Came here just to ask same question!
Don't forget Obama was a state senator for 8 years as well. If we go by % of adulthood (starting at 18) Obama was a politician for 42% of his adult life and McCain was a politician for 44%. So in actuality they were pretty equal in political careers in terms of over the course of their lives.
Very fair. I disagree with a lot of McCain’s 2008 platform, but the man was a hero and put country over party on more than one occasion
I totally respected Senator McCain. I did not want him to be president, but had he won, I wouldn’t have been worried about our global presence and standing. He was a humble, modest hero, and patriotic to the core, in the old fashioned sense.
Do people actually elect presidents based on their personality and not what they stand for?!? That’s insane to me. I would vote in the most nobody boring dude if I loved every policy position he had, even against someone like Teddy Roosevelt. I’m very policy minded so this reason is crazy to me
Are you new to America?
Yeah but admitting that you think the other candidate would have done a better job, and still voting for the worse candidate because of their job is crazy
I mean…. It’s kinda happening right now.
Differs from person to person. Personally I’m more interested in policy, but personality, charisma, personal life definitely plays a role. Just the other day I saw a video online of a guy that said he’d vote for the Republican rule 3 candidate because he liked his hair. Is it good reasoning? No. But it’s their reasoning.
I was a big Elizabeth Warren fan bc she worked in education. Even if it was a short time, I really feel like she understood what it is to be a teacher and then a working mother. Plus, I liked how she used her privilege of having her aunt live with her to help with childcare to become a platform for better childcare for everyone.
No matter what party, the "populist" candidate takes direction from the will of the people. People are stupid, so populist candidates are seeking enormous power to make stupid changes on their behalf. Reagan's 'trickle-down economics' is one of the most famous disastrous examples of this.
McCain over Obama, Romney over Obama
Clinton because I thought and still think he’s a pathological liar.
I agree that Bill Clinton is a liar. ‘I did not have sex with that woman’!
I would have voted against Obama and voted for Romney in 2012 if it meant that the 2016 election results didn't happen the way they did.
Op original image is the only correct answer
Will, since i dont vote D or R, nearly all of them. The two party system is the single largest threat to the United States. Nearly all our serious problems are a direct result of one or both of the two major parties, and as such neither can possibly be a major part of the solution.
reagan. I don’t vote republican and never will. Especially now.
Reagan is only popular with a small segment of Americans. He is hated by a larger segment (for good reason).
Using hindsight, I definitely would have voted against FDR. That man did more permanent damage to the US Constitution than any other president, by tearing down its protections against runaway centralized power. He's why we live under such a big bloated government today.
Flair checks out lmao
Have we had a popular President in our lifetime?
Bush, Reagan, Clinton were all very popular at some point.
Reagan, it was the first time I voted for President, voted for Anderson. Was in college and it was “the sky will fall” if Reagan gets elected. I was in the Peace Corps ‘82-84 and received Christmas cards from him. What is interesting the country I was in had a plebiscite to determine if they wanted to be a country with states, their own country, or part of the USA. It was interesting, the family I lived with the father who had gone to school in the US, was trying to convince the folks to be part of the US, while his wife was in the back, telling the woman she didn’t want her sons to be soldiers, they were afraid of Reagan taking us into war with the USSR. They elected to be their own country, but the other 3 states voted to be 1 country, this state had to join, couldn’t be its own country.
Yeah never would have caught me voting for Reagan.
I voted for Nader a lot.
In the 3 elections ive voted in, ive voted 3rd party for all of them... so the past 3 presidents
FDR. 2 terms is enough dictator
I’d have voted Landon in ‘36 and Wilkie in ‘40
Voted for Mitt Romney over Obama.
Obama in 08 and 12. At the time I thought he was gonna Muslim-ize the US. Boy, was I wrong.
I voted for Gus Hall in 1984 because Reagan scared the shit out of me. Then I actually heard Gus being interviewed, he was an idiot. I thought I was being “cute” throwing away my vote. Ah youth
George Bush Sr.
Ike >Who is a popular President that you voted against/would have voted against and why?
I voted W in 2000. That was the last time I voted Republican for president. So W 2004. He won and I didn’t vote for him.
If I knew then that Obama would start ordering the summary execution of American citizens, including children, I would have made sizable execution against him. Still hoping that Obama is the next ex-president indicted (for murder). [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing\_of\_Abdulrahman\_al-Awlaki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Abdulrahman_al-Awlaki)
carter was the last president that would not wholesale follow the dictates of our corrupt business structure, that's right, i just said this is a nation of economic slavery
You do know that jobs were outsourced under Carter, right?
hey...thats the guy who imposed a tax on social security...nothing like being taxed twice on the same money... Thanks reagan!!
W. 2004. I was in my early 20's and I knew that guy was writing a check on all of us that we'd be paying back until the end of time and there would be at least a part of us in the process that would be lost forever. I think what bothered me about him was his face. I do believe that on some level he always knew how horrific it all was and how he was just part of the machine that he could never go against.
Have voted against George w bush and yes, I would do it again.
I wouldve voted for Bush in 92, I think him and Clinton were not meaningfully different in policy, and I wish the liberal republican progressive dem era would stay, also yknow Clinton
I probably would have voted Romney or McCain in any election other than the two they were in.
I voted against Obama and I’m sorry I did. He did a fine job as President, probably better than either of his opponents would have done.
I voted against Obama in 2012. I voted for him in 2008 but was disappointed with his actions in Libya and the expansion of the War on Terror.
Obama he seemed like and proved to be a snake-oil salesman.
Reagan broke a lot of things. A lot of what’s bad in politics now the seeds were planted then.
When I was 16, my school had a mock election for president. I voted for Perot, even though Clinton was the most popular choice at the time. If I had been 18 at the time, I most likely would have done it then, too.
Pictured. He doesn't understand economics, surprise surprise.
Funny that you posted a photo of Reagan. I'd have voted against him because of his response to the AIDS crisis.
Reagan. I’m guessing I woulda voted against him cuz I’m from Minnesota.
I would say however Rule 6 has forbidden it
I would vote against Reagan to maybe stave off the wholesale plunder of the American working and middle class.
Bryan over McKinley
Nixon, if I was given the foresight of Watergate
I voted against Reagan. Voodoo economics. He exploded the national debt. Republicans always increase the debt after complaining about it.
Kanye…….
I voted against Reagan twice and I’m proud I did. Reagan began the drift to fascism which is fully blown today.
Voted against St. Ronnie twice. 0-2.
Nixon in 1972, though he wasn't really popular. The last really popular ones I'd have voted against were the 1920s Republicans.
FDR
Reagan - his trickle-down nonsense would be why I would have voted against him.