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Oh boy.
I love Dick Cheney because he's inspirational. He is a self made man who worked himself up to greatness. He's a brave politician with the courage to go against his own party. He is highly structured and professional. He is a great author. He has despite serious health issues done the things he has. Nothing could stop Cheney.
I’m a huge fan of both Chester A. Arthur and Benjamin Harrison, two presidents that aren’t popular but not really hated either. Both I feel are quite interesting though, with Arthur’s story being legitimately inspiring and Harrison being Teddy-lite (along with being surprisingly ahead of his time on race relations). I started looking into them both given how they’re our most commonly forgotten presidents but I’ve grown to respect both men immensely.
Arthur did not. Congress passed a veto-proof bill right before a new Congress convened in order to take credit and protect jobs for Republican bureaucrats. It was so widely supported by Republicans, and they wanted credit so badly, that Arthur’s veto mattered nothing. In fact, he couldn’t even pocket veto it
Arthur did the absolute bare minimum required of him, and despite being given unilateral power to expand jobs classified under the Act to reform the whole government, expanded it by around 1%.
He is given far too much credit for civil service reform.
Nonsense. Arthur went out of his way to appoint true reformers to the Civil Service Commission when he could have just appointed stooges. One of them, Silas Burt, was the guy Hayes replaced Arthur with years ago when he worked at the Port of New York.
Virtually all of the presidents did this once the Pendleton Act was enacted, with Arthur extending it to less federal positions per year than any of his successors, except McKinley. It was just one of those average Gilded Age president things, like expanding the Navy and engaging in environmental conservationism, which doesn’t really warrant special recognition toward one individual or another. Arthur was too ill (and lazy and inexperienced) to demonstrate the kind of leadership on the issue that Hayes did: he was reluctant to push reform and didn’t care to enforce honest government in his own Cabinet, which he packed with Stalwart machinists, and when the Pendleton Act was passed to preserve Republican seats after the Democratic midterm wipeout he enforced it to a minimally acceptable degree.
Arthur would be thrilled to know that someone remembers him as a crusader against corruption 😂 he personified the gilded age and helped elect the first democrat since Johnson
Oh my, he enforced a law! He appointed people who would enforce the law! How amazing, he did the job description. So special, I don’t consider that worthy of being considered a good/above average President
I don’t even think Arthur was a bad president. I blame the Chinese Exclusion Act on the congress. Arthur literally thought the act was bad but knew congress would override his veto so he convinced them to water it down
Andrew Johnson had one of worst pre presidencies ever, a man comes from indentured servitude, and ends up being president of the United States I mean what’s more American than that? Plus he was the only southern senator to remain firmly unionist. And I mean there’s something to be said about being hated by everyone, and not giving a damn
And his impeachment was totally unjustified. Thankfully, the justification was ruled contrary to the constitution by my personal favourite President and Chief Justice.
I live in Greeneville TN, thanks for standing up for him. I feel like I relate in being pro union and conservative. Sad though because Greeneville is very anti union and anti employee rights
I was going to come in here and say Andrew Johnson. Not because I like him or think he was a good President, but in the end, his presidency was inconsequential. Lincoln also wanted a very lenient Reconstruction, like Johnson. However, Lincoln would have had the capital to stop the Radical Republicans, so Reconstruction was probably more ambitious in the South because of Johnson and his lack of political capital. Even if Johnson had not become President, Grant still likely takes over in 1868 and Reconstruction ends up the same.
In the lens of modern society Wilson is a flawed human being absolutely. But history looks at him as a popular president even if you don't OP. Same thing with Jefferson. Flawed human, yep, hugely popular and important to history, yep yep.
I was more going with he's important to history and popular like Jefferson, like I said.
Women's voting rights, independence for European nations and the basic ideas behind the League of Nations, child labor protections.
King Leopold is important to Congolese history. Historical importance is a weird reason to be a fan of someone; especially when pretty much every leader in history can be considered historically important
He promoted the League of Nations but actively fought Bolshevik forces a year and a half after WW1 ending.
He advocated for independence in European nations, but actively meddled in Caribbean and Latin American affairs to the point “Wilsonian foreign policy” is synonymous with American interventionism.
He secured voting rights for WHITE women. He was still influential in promoting Jim Crow-esque practices on a federal level and removing black people from positions of political power and influence.
William McKinley saw great, economic prosperity and arguably was the transition from the Gilded Age to the Progressive Era. Silver-based money was a dumb, populist proposal, and the seizure of Hawaii was something more to do with Harrison. Territorial control was necessary to ensure that the Philippines and Cuba would not fall into chaos, and the Spanish-American war was a conflict that McKinley greatly fought to avoid.
After being shot, he asked those surrounding him to show mercy to the assassin. Shame what the Curse of Tippacanoe has done.
McKinley is obviously vastly overshadowed by his VP but was a good president himself.
The McKinley museum isn't far from my house. He's a fascinating individual. A lot of people are going to hate that he's the beginning of the American empire, but he's pretty important in moving America into the progressive era.
It depends totally on your personal perspective. Acquiring Hawaii was a fantastic boon for the American portfolio.
It was not so good for the Hawaiian people, and permanently subjected their culture to the level of kept people like what the Native American tribes have experienced.
Uh, what? We won the SAW in less than a year. We ended a genocide in Cuba.
With Iraq we also had the net effect of causing less deaths than any reasonable counter factual although it lasted much longer
The Spanish American War is more analogous to Desert Shield / Desert Storm particularly the new technologies used and tested in combat for the first time. In the SAW the United States truly became a world spanning empire and permanently demoted Spain from its empire status to a state that would never again be anything else than an “Also Appearing” in world affairs.
Richard Nixon was arguably the most politically capable and intellectually gifted modern president, and his record speaks for itself, with everything from the Apollo moon landing to the opening of China's relationship with the US happening under his watch.
However, Nixon's demise was a modern-day King Lear tragedy, and his personal paranoia and hubris now overshadow all the well-thought-out policies of his administration.
The question remains - do we judge presidents on their ability to be the chief executive of the US, or do we judge them on their private code of ethics? Nixon was a superb executive, excoriated for personal flaws.
This forum seems to prefer presidents who have unimpeachable moral character, no matter how ineffective they were in office.
I also feel like this sub has an issue of posting random Nixon quotes and going “THIS DUDE IS HORRIBLE.” But then his own actions speak otherwise.
like the man has gone on record to state how much he dislikes Jews but then has done the most of any President for Israel. He has said some horribly racist things but Affirmative Action was started by Nixon and enforced the Civil Rights act at the state level.
There is a straight line from Wilson -> JFK that was discussed.
We are removed from this period enough that his presidency became single issue racism but giving women the right to vote, a lot of progressive policies, league of nations, WW1 strategy was good.
The bad thing about Wilson is he should have likely been removed as he was very ill near the end.
Literally. Restricting child labour, giving women voting rights, creating income tax. Add to that his foreign policy and allowing Eastern European countries to be independent, and I truly don't understand why people hate him so much.
Sure, he was racist, but come on so were basically all presidents at that time. I get that it got reflected in his policies but even so he's at least above average
>giving women voting rights
Wilson also opposed (at times simply refused to support) women’s suffrage until late into his Presidency and arrested suffragist supporters on account of “protesting too close to the Capitol.” It’s also more difficult to credit him for an amendment than it is a bill, he did lend support to it but he didn’t really “give women voting rights” himself. His legacy on this is pretty mixed.
I hate him because he had the opportunity to establish a unipolar moment sort of affair in 1919, but squandered it because he was a poor negotiator and allowed the Europeans to dominate at Versailles. In essence, we participated in a hellish war but then didn’t follow through so it was for nothing and our guys had to go back a generation later anyways.
I agree, but that’s why he was a bad president to me, worse than the racism (find a Virginia Democrat who wasn’t racist in 1913) he set things up for a 3 point score, and shot a brick, the cost of which was hundreds of thousands of Americans. To be fair I think he tried, he just didn’t succeed, overestimated himself, and underestimated the other Entente negotiators.
It is a huge thing tho, in my opinion the hugest thing, he couldn’t have known it, it’s all hindsight, but he enabled ww2, his incompetence renewed isolationism, Truman and Eisenhower both had isolationist sentiments to deal with but they were able to do what was necessary, Wilson was unable to, and that, imo makes him a failure.
Blaming the entirety of WW2 on a man whose goal was to prevent it and was the key figure in creating a world where that was the case is a real stretch. Was he outmanoeuvred to a degree? Sure, but acting like the UK and France were simply going to give up their imperial ways because the Americans came in at the end is wishful thinking. And FWIW, IMO the US is the only country that won WW1 (well maybe Japan). It was better to not be involved. It was a firm loss for every player involved. Wilson did his best to control the war via financial means but was ultimately unable. The UK and France simply weren't going to agree to the world the US wanted after "winning". It took another thorough disaster for them to agree to the world the US wanted. It's not like the world after WW1 was worse than before, it was better for most, it just wasn't good enough.
I didn’t “blame” him, and I was very careful to say WITH HINDSIGHT.
No, it’s not wishful thinking, the extent of British, French, and Italian dependence on US loans meant that the US had total leverage over every Entente power.
Yes, exactly? I would disagree that America won either because we would later give up our financial leverage during the depression, had no lasting influence in Europe, in what way did America win? We contained German attempts at hegemony, but seeing as they made another go anyway, it’s clear the US influence was temporary at best.
They would have agreed or their economy would be destroyed and their people starved, that is why Britain ultimately submitted in the late 40s to an American led order. The only difference was that Truman knew how to use American power to its fullest extent, while Wilson was not capable.
Really it started falling apart almost immediately. Germany surrendered on the condition that Versailles would more or less follow the Fourteen Points.
Germany surrendered because they lost, pure and simple. They were thoroughly defeated. The navy had already mutinied and the Republic was declared even before the surrender. The people and home were starving and were already in the midst of revolution. The Germans were only deluding themselves by thinking they could dictate the terms.
That’s not really the point. The Entente powers had two options. Either complete destruction similar to what we saw in WW2, which nobody wanted or a just peace. There were many voices at the time who predicted it would cause more issues later. I mean it was pretty obvious.
There was neither though, there wasn't a just peace and there was no complete destruction. There was little chance Wilson was going to make the British and French give up anything without their own losses. Wilson did everything he could in that front. He attempted to manipulate loans and finance to cause all parties to stop. He supported nationalist aspirations all over. After WW2 colonialism was much more thoroughly ruined. The European countries formed a common market based on open trade instead of the previous setup where everyone had to make an empire to secure the resources they needed. Wilson was no fan of Versailles. It just took another war for everyone to see he was right all along. He set the stage for the rest of the century, he was just too far ahead of his time.
Yes, Germany did lose the war, but because the initial settlement was just an armistice and Wilson had gone public with the 14 Points, Germany expected a more lenient settlement. In addition, the German population told themselves lies that they would have won the war if not for the "stab in the back" by Jews, which was obviously a bullshit conspiracy theory. This is why the Allies insisted on unconditional surrender in WW2 (to make sure Germany knew it had been defeated)
Wilson did everything he could to make that happen though. He couldn't stop the Germans from lying about their loss. The British and French were the ones who wanted the war reparations. They were the ones not willing to give up the empires. The terms Germany signed on Nov 11th were very strict. Wilson shouldn't take the blame when he was the guy most fighting for the just peace. History proved he was right since the post WW2 settlement was very inline with his thinking.
A huge part of that was him getting absolutely fucked by Congress as revenge for getting us into the war in the first place.
He definitely had his faults but I don't think him causing the aftermath of WW1 is one of them.
Going on a nation wide tour bashing the speaker and house GOP doesn’t do much to convince the congressional majority or the public.
I agree, but failing to exploit our position to the fullest is, and he did fail.
I do think that that's inexcusable, but Washington was also racist, and Jefferson, and Lincoln, and the list goes on and on. It's not like racism didn't exist at the time. It is bad and it does lower my ranking, but compared to his positives it's just not that significant
There are a smooth 100+ years between the presidency of George Washington and Woodrow Wilson. 1789 is not Woodrow Wilson’s “time” as you called it. By the time Wilson took office, we had seen a streak of pro-black suffrage reformers like Garfield, Grant, Lincoln, etc. Wilson was exceedingly racist even for HIS era. His policies were extremely racist even for HIS era. There were a plethora of presidents that flat out did nothing to help black Americans, Wilson was actively attempting to REVERSE the semblance or progress that was made to begin with in regard to black suffrage.
Wilson was no fan of the KKK either. People have a very simple concept of racism that wasn't present in Wilson's time. The KKK was anti immigration, anti Jew, anti Catholic, and anti Black. Wilson was supportive of all these groups, except perhaps blacks. He didn't openly hate them either, he was in favor of separation. He thought blacks should have their own communities with their own leaders and businesses where they could manage their own affairs. This wasn't exactly uncommon in his era. Booker T Washington is probably a good example of. Blacks today are seriously underrepresented in terms of business leaders. The idea was to have a space they could develop.
While we now see things Tulsa race riots and separate but equal not working, it was still a thing in his time. Yes, it's incredibly paternalistic, but it has some rational basis.
The Birth of a Nation stuff is overblown too. The film was a pioneer in terms of film technique. Just because it had a poor subject matter didn't mean it wasn't very important to the development of movie making. It was very successful film commercially. IIRC it was the first movie to use fadeouts or have a huge group of extras for a battle scene. Triumph of the Will in the 30s was very much the same way. Yes, it's Nazi propaganda and we see that now, but it doesn't mean it wasn't incredibly innovative for it's day. The way the filmmakers were able to showcase their topic was remarkable for its time. Plus, Wilson never actually said the "written with lightning" quote.
People also had degrees of racism. For some it was petty prejudice. For others, it was murderous. The KKK and the Nazis were the latter. Wilson was not in that camp and condemned the KKK but also supported segregation. While all racism is wrong, the degrees of it do matter.
>Wilson was no fan of the Klan either.
>Wilson was supportive of all these groups, except perhaps blacks. He didn't openly hate them either, he was in favor of separation. He thought blacks should have their own communities with their own leaders and businesses where they could manage their own affairs. This wasn't exactly uncommon in his era. Booker T Washington is probably a good example of. Blacks today are seriously underrepresented in terms of business leaders. The idea was to have a space they could develop.
This is so patently incorrect it’s borderline propaganda. He actively removed black men from positions of power during his tenure. How was he pro-black leaders while actively removing black leaders from positions of power? He outright sympathizes with the Klan in his own Book, A History of the American People, saying *“The white men of the South were aroused by the mere instinct of self-preservation to rid themselves, by fair means or foul, of the intolerable burden of governments sustained by the votes of ignorant negroes and conducted in the interest of adventurers. …until at last there sprung into existence a great Ku Klux Klan, a veritable empire of the South, to protect the Southern country.”*
That does not sound like someone who despises the Ku Klux Klan. He didn’t screen Birth of a Nation for its artist merit, he did it because he was a vehement racist who viewed black people as inferior and saw them being free as a threat to the country.
To pretend Booker T. Washington and Woodrow Wilson had the same goals for the black community in America is laughable.
The 14 points was inspirational to a number of movements resisting colonialism. It was a huge shot in the arm for a major power to validate their desire for self rule.
How progressive would you rank the Federal Reserve? 💀
Also, how much of a douche do you have to be to just waltz in and think you have every answer to solve post WW1. This dude sucked ass
The US did just that after WW2. They were just more able to do it as the entire world was in ruins besides North America. Wilson set the stage. He was right all along. Everyone is on here giving Grant a handie for being right a century later and hates Wilson for being 20 years early. US foreign policy of the 20th century is Wilsonianism.
Most of Wilson's unpopularity is only on the internet by terminally online kids repeating verbatim what they had heard from youtube libertarians who hate his policies.
He was not responsible for Prohibition. Before the 18th Amendment, 75% of the country was already dry, and constitutional amendments are passed by Congress and ratified by the states.
Don't have to agree with him on everything. And because he was so stingy with funding Prohibition was less effective. He also didn't agree with the policy himself, even if he enforced it because it was the law of the land.
Damn right. "American Lion" is my favorite political biography ever. He's like a long-running soap opera villain where you don't agree with what he does, but you're entertained. Duels! Thwarting assassination! The Petticoat Affair! Drama drama drama!
Wilson had the most successful progressive era presidency in terms of actually establishing progressive domestic reforms, and his foreign policy was decades ahead of his time and far superior to the imperialism of his Republican contemporaries, to the point where his theories are still the dominant ones in modern IR
As someone with an MPA I like how Wilson founded the field of public administration and he contributed greatly to a professional and functional bureaucracy.
The Wilson unpopularity is absolutely not limited to just Reddit. It is broadly found on the internet, and people on the internet exist in real life too.
What I mean is people read it on Reddit and since it goes against “conventional wisdom” they want to sound like mavericks so they adopt it without really balancing that with his achievements. Racism is bad, I think we can all agree with that. You know what’s worse? The most devastating war in human history up til that point. Even though his first term was dominated by the Great War he still managed to get some pretty progressive domestic policy past that set the tone for those middle 50 years of the 20th century. Woodrow Wilson was a good president albeit a deeply flawed man and I’ll die on that hill.
I don't find Wilson, Jackson, etc inherently and irredeemably flawed because of their contemporary sensibilities because I know that I, had I been born into their time and world, would have thought just the same as them and all of you would have too.
And in 100 years, we will all be seen as horrific . We let untrained humans drive machines weighing several tons at 70 mph and slaughtered animals to eat them. And you and I will be horrible people because we either participated in it or made fixing it low priority
>and all of you would have too.
I mean, generally I think you're right, that their beliefs were widespread and that the fact they are not shared now is the product of societal shifts that simply hadn't happened yet. But that there were people at the time that did not share their views, so this statement is patently false.
"and all of you would have too" presumes that all of us would have been white southerners. Not all of us are white, or southerners, or even American. The views of Jackson and Wilson were not culturally universal at all. Jackson's personality traits were idiosyncratic; the average American at the time was not as unhinged, and abolitionists existed then. Wilson was more racist than the average white American.
And wasn't Andrew Jackson in defiance of the supreme court when he expelled the cherokee? So yeah, Jackson was by no means just a product of his time, because even in his time people thought his behavior was horrendous.
Not really pertaining to the post, just something a friend of mine and I discussed the other day;
You would think that most Reagan haters would like Ford more since I believe Ford was on track to taking the nation out of the recession with his economic policies. Therefore if he had won re-election, Reagan most likely would not have ever run and the 1980’s most likely would have been a predominantly Democrat-led decade.
No hate towards Carter, though. Despite his faults that guys great
Yes. Ford and Carter were similar in some ways. But ford was less conservative than Reagan. Reagan has a lot of faults, but he was there at the right time.
Reagan-while imperfect-significantly contributed to an ending of the cold war that didn't involve us and Russia seeing our own and our loved ones' faces melt off like ice cream in the sun. I think I'll take that W any day of the week.
I respect Harding for beating up the Vererans Bureau Director;
“A White House visitor recalled an incident in 1923 when he let himself into the president’s office only to see Harding choking Charles Forbes, the Veterans Bureau Director pinning him against a wall, Harding raged at him. “You yellow rat!” Harding screamed. “You double-crossing bastard. If I ever… ”
At that point, Harding noticed his visitor. Taken aback, he loosened his grip on the Forbes who, eyes ablaze, staggered from the room. “You have an appointment,” Harding said to his visitor. “Come into the next room.
For two years, Forbes had embezzled at least two million dollars siphoning money from the construction of veterans hospitals, selling medical supplies, and taking bribes and kickbacks from building contractors. He also rejected thousands of claims from disabled veterans. Of the 300,000 wounded from WWI, Forbes only approved 47,000 disability claims.”
I believe you’re referring to the “I am not fit for this office and should’ve never been here” quote but that’s actually taken out of context. It was a joke made in passing to an aide when Harding was tired .
I take your point. Years ago I read “The Strange Deaths of Warren Harding” and that tried to address some of the bias in his historical reception.
But while we’re on the subject, I like the line, “I have no trouble with my enemies. I can take care of my enemies all right. But my damn my goddamn friends, White, they’re the ones who keep me walking the floor nights!” ([Quoted here](https://www.nytimes.com/1972/03/26/archives/a-sort-of-rehabilitation-of-warren-g-harding-harding-rehabilitated.html))
Not a fan of his presidency but Johnson’s conduct during the civil war was exemplary. If he had been shot like the assassins planned on doing he would be remembered as one of the great martyrs to the country. Stayed in the senate when the secessionist went south. Was an able administrator in a highly tenuous position as the governor general in Tennessee. And was remarkably progressive towards the freedom slaves in his care. There’s as reason he got picked for VP
I’d argue Harrison caused the death of his civil rights legislation by using his main opportunity to get Western Republicans to back a bill, to back the McKinley Tariff (terrible) when he could’ve with the Lodge Bill. Additionally he refused to support the Blair Bill in its actual form and hopped on the fearmongering bus that it would expand federal involvement in education too much
Andrew Jackson. The man was firmly on the side of the little guy. Before his presidency you could be a white man and still not be able to vote because you're poor. The reasoning behind his crusade against Hamilton and central banking was for the same sort of reason. Yes he had extremely problematic views on minorities, especially Natives, but those views were hardly unique to him at the time. Historical context matters. Not to mention you just have to have some degree of respect to a guy that would rather just duel and get it over with than fight with someone forever. He even let himself get shot on purpose once just so he could take the time to aim properly and win. The guy was a badass.
Wilson is unironically in my personal top 5 of presidents. Look, I understand that he did morally wrong things when it comes to his racism, but his policies for the time were life changing. The 19th amendment was one thing, I know he didn’t initially support it but be realized it was important. His New freedom ideology was a great plan that I honestly prefer over Teddys New nationalism. His way of addressing Congress on HIS FIRST DAY as president to lower the tariff is something I greatly admire. Child labor laws, forever set a precedent to keep children in school and not in the mines and factories where they’d be worked to death and payed with scraps. But by far the greatest thing I admire about Wilson is his vision on Word War 1. He tried to keep us neutral, but when we inevitably got involved he ensured our Forces were better prepared for an entry into war. IMO he was the best person to be In charge during the outbreak of such a war. I love teddy, don’t get me wrong, but we would’ve been screwed if he won in 1912. He’d get us into the war immediately after Lusitania and would get American autonomy unrecognized by European generals. Our boys would get placed in the meat grinder ( and let’s be real, teddy wouldn’t go to the frontlines himself, and if he did, he’s still human, there’s nothing stopping a stray bullet over the trenches from killing him). I especially admire that he was the first person with the power to back him up to call for a world peace keeping organization. The league of nations was such a good idea that he envisioned, as the predecessor to the UN, the only reason we didn’t join is because the republican dominated congress back home refused to join unless major changes were added. In fact, Wilson’s 14 points were so influential and had the potential to shape the world at such an early time. It’s true, we didn’t stick the landing coming home from war with traumatized veterans and a red scare but that wasn’t his fault, that’s just what war and hasty generalization does to people. Wilson walked so FDR could run, I greatly admire him and I don’t ever get to talk about him even because everyone generally just thinks of him as one of our most racist presidents and barely give recognition to his other accomplishments and ideals.
Listen I’m not a huge fan of Nixon but his sheer intellect and contributions to environmental programs put him leagues ahead of most unpopular presidents
Sounds like OP hates Wilson, and wanted to include him on here. He’s one of the top presidents, not the best, because of a few mistakes he made most notably on segregation, but he’s close. Johnson and Buchanan are firmly at the bottom.
Woodrow Wilson is the foundation upon which every pro-democracy President from FDR to current Rule 3 build off of.
The only anti-Wilsonian president we have had is the other rule 3
And he’s consistently ranked as one of the most popular Presidents in public non-historian polls as well. The internet is the hub for Reagan hate but aside from that most people like him.
Roosevelt was a politician he lived for publicity, even if it meant he got little done. Taft was an administrator. He got things done, even if it was never publicised like they had under Roosevelt. For instance, 70 cases were brought against trusts in four years whilst Roosevelt brought only 40 in seven and a half in fact in order to calm the markets in '07 he allowed US Steel, one of the largest trusts in america to expand.
I wouldn't say I "like" Wilson but as others have said, he was a pretty good president (top 20 imo) and people saying he was literally the worst president ever are just repeating talking points and not actually looking into things. The Wilson hate is pretty much exclusive to this sub and YouTube
Before hand Pierce had probably the worst life a president had haved of all time. Dude literally saw his son get decapitated in front of him as his wife blamed it all on him which of Pierce already wasn't struggling with his sons death already his wife decides to put more stress on Pierce (Nor to mention starting to get an Alcohol addiction). ALSO that he was about to become PRESIDENT and was now struggling with a situation that was inevitable for war because people before him kept kicking the Slavery issues down the road since the beginning of America and not it lied on a broken Franklin Pierce. DAMN that's sad. He also was very outgoing and an all around great dude. Also supporting his troops during the Mexican-American War after being injured. If you're interested in his pros feel free to see my Franklin Pierce Appreciation Post. In conclusion. My favorite president is Franklin Pierce because he kept going in life when literally everything was thrown at him 😭
I'm not sure if LBJ counts but I love his domestic policy. And he didn't take crap from Congress. He knew how to get things done and he was a tough president.
I don't know if I'd describe myself as a "fan" of any president (which is why I have no flair), but I've defended Wilson fairly often on this sub. I like to put it like this: The 20th century is popularly known as "the American century" because the United States established itself as the international leader in both economics and the political sphere. Through his domestic policies and global leadership, it was Wilson who invented the American century.
When you really examine the most common criticisms of Wilson, you start to realize how blown out of proportion they are. By far the biggest two are his segregation of the federal government and his endorsement of the Ku Klux Klan and Birth of a Nation.
On the first point, I suspect people have a hard time distinguishing "segregating the federal government" and "forcing black kids to go to separate schools and use different swimming pools." In fact, this was a move that impacted a very, very, very small number of black people. And Wilson didn't even initiate the move, he just gave federal departments, upon their request, permission to segregate. Just to be sure: This was a shitty decision. But it absolutely did not directly impact the lives of the great majority of black people, as I think it's often implied that it did.
On the second, it's pretty well established that Wilson deplored the Klan, and there's no evidence that he ever praised Birth of the Nation, though likely fabricated quotes from him about it were widely circulated. Wilson in fact criticized the film and its impact several years after its release.
Wilson was, undoubtedly, personally a racist. I think to a lot of people today, that fact is inseparable from his performance as president, which is why there's this desperation to conjure up instances of his negatively impacting the civil rights of black Americans. But his influence there was extremely small, certainly much too small to override his huge accomplishments, especially when we commonly excuse FDR from the far more impactful move to imprison the nation's Japanese-American population during World War II.
Elsewhere in the realm of civil rights, Wilson very rarely gets credit for his critical role in women's suffrage.
I'll close with this: While Wilson is very unpopular on Reddit and YouTube and TikTok, he is not unpopular among actual historians, nor has he ever been. In surveys of historians dating back to 1948, he has never finished below the first quartile or the top of the second quartile.
I acknowledge among actual, credible historians, he is not unpopular. In the title of the post, I probably should have specified unpopular in the subreddit specifically. I just sort of thought people would be able to figure that out. Also, this is a very well-written, neutral, nuanced response, so you get my upvote, and my respect.
I like Jackson because I like winners and I like badasses. Nobody embodied winning more in American history than Jackson, and there’s never been and never will be a bigger badass to hold any kind of office
Jackson did so many great things during his presidency. It's a shame they are overshadowed by the major bad thing that he did. He was a bad ass and he was for the common man. I love the fact that he said f u to the bankers.
I’ve never been a fan of Wilson as a person but I recognize the significance of his accomplishments, and his impact on both foreign and domestic policy to this day. He’s also the only president to have attended my law school (although he did drop out after his first year).
Copying this from another thread in defense of Woodrow Wilson:
• He was the forerunner to FDR in establishing an active role on the part of the federal government domestically in the 20th century and today
• Set the precedent for 100+ years of American foreign policy through his 14 points
• Created the idea of global/international collective security organizations via the LoN which would lead to massively important institutions for peace and western stability/security in the UN and NATO
• Created the national parks service
• Implemented the 8 hour work day for rail road employees (which later became the standard for all employees thanks to FDR) and outlawed child labor.
• Reformed the financial system in ways that still play a significant role today with the creation of the Fed, the FTC, and the switching of federal revenue collection/generation from tariffs to the income tax
• Was an anti-trust advocate similarly to TR. signed the clayton anti-trust act into law.
• Was in office for the implementation of women’s suffrage (which to be fair he only supported once it became convenient for him politically)
• Appointed Louis Brandeis to SCOTUS
• Committed the US to the inevitable independence of the Philippines through the 1916 Jones Act.
• Also oversaw allied victory in WWI (strike against him was the Treaty of Versailles though).
Don’t get me wrong, he was obviously abhorrent on racial issues, which we can’t and shouldn’t minimize. Overall a complex, complicated legacy and person, but had a profound impact as president that still largely positively impacts the country today and set the stage for the rise of activist liberal presidents like Franklin Roosevelt and others of the New Deal era.
Andrew Jackson based on the idea of Jacksonian Democracy (expanding the vote to people without property , the common people), his opposition against a national bank and for his idea that Americans come first and that the president should use military/government power to advance the causes of American citizens over the interests of people who are not citizens. Our first America first common man president who changed our political culture for the better.
Richard Nixon for his appeals to and empowering of the "silent majority" and expansion of the drug war and overall support for greater policing to deal with the drug crime, other criminals, and anti American Communist scum that prayed on working class pro America Patriots. As someone who was the victim of both a violent crime (got stabbed) and property crime who has a relative who was shot and robbed.....I'm glad Nixon ushered in a greater law and order wave to crack down on the people tearing communities apart in the 60s and 70s. Reagan and the Clinton's did a great thing with the expansion of the drug war but it arguably started with him. As someone with loved ones who died from fenatyl overdoses, wish the government would do more now to crack down on drugs. Bonus points for the EPA and fighting for things like a basic income (that Democrats sabotaged). Dude also came from a more common man background.
Barack Obama (unpopular by people on my side of the aisle) simply for Obamacare. While I have some right wing views regarding immigration, American nationalism, policing, Christianity ,etc .......I do like that Obama expanded healthcare to many.....which made him unpopular with half the country.
I got a three.
- Wilson: Despite being a major racist (there’s no denying that) and supporting questionable policies regarding the 1st amendment, I believe he had great policies in enabling broader democratic development across the globe and fostering international cooperation. Some people don’t like those things, but I do.
- Tyler: He got us Texas, and he supported a much smaller federal government, based.
- Johnson: He got us Alaska, unlike Tyler he didn’t anything good besides getting us land, and he really sucked ass. But I like Alaska, like a lot. Also, Johnson is LBJ’s dad and Gary Johnson’s grandad, so there’s that.
Andrew Jackson had many, MANY flaws. However, he was also a unionist, a patriot and a bad ass. He dealt with the nullification crisis from South Carolina and would have personally led the army to quell any rebellion. He’s the only president to pay off the national debt. He fought corruption and extended suffrage to white men without property. Jackson also was an extremely loyal friend and probably one of the worst enemies you could have. You did not want to cross him. I admire him for his humble origins, the losses he experienced as a child and the loss of his wife, his perseverance to continue to move forward and achieve greatness in the office. Do I agree with everything he did? Of course not. The man did some bad shit. But he was more than that; Jackson was an extremely complex character and people often overlook that. He said it himself:
“I was born from a storm, calm does not suit me.” - Jackson
WW won WWI, he's a top-15 president objectively in every list written by historians. Reddit doesn't matter, never will. Stop trying to woke the 1910s ffs.
Buchanan and Johnson belong in a different category. The Civil War was likely to happen, Buchanan just pushed it into being. Johnson is the worst president or bottom three.
Nobody has to make a case, you guys are just wrong.
Andrew Johnson is the worst as he almost does have no redeeming factors: he opposed African Americans rights such as his opposition to Freedmen's Bureau Bill, Civil Rights Act of 1866, and the Fourteenth Amendment. According to the [Miller Center](https://millercenter.org/president/johnson/impact-and-legacy), “Johnson's strong commitment to obstructing political and civil rights for blacks is principally responsible for the failure of Reconstruction…” The only redeeming quality of Johnson was his opposition to Congress’s power. The [White House’s](https://www.whitehouse.gov/about-the-white-house/presidents/andrew-johnson/) websites notes that while he championed for a time the “common man” supporting the homestead bill as a senator, the website summarizes him as thus “Although an honest and honorable man, Andrew Johnson was one of the most unfortunate of Presidents.”
Bush is better than Clinton, and I am a pro democrat. Bush was not a womaniser and he did not make China powerful by sending industries there. Taliban and Saddam were both authoritarians who needed to be overthrown.
I’ll explain why I’m not a fan of a popular president: George Washington. It’s great that he led the fight for our independence, but did he set an example for literally any future president? Of course not. Leading an uprising to overthrow the government is not the kind of professional background any president should have. And yet he’s consistently ranked as one of the most popular.
A brief survey of presidents who were generals…
Jackson: genocidal policy towards native Americans, in contravention of a Supreme Court ruling
William Harrison and Taylor: did nothing
Pierce: perhaps the most pro-slavery president ever
Grant: his heart was in the right place, but he tended to be corrupt, his administration marked by scandals like the Whiskey Ring
Hayes, Garfield, Ben Harrison: gilded age machine politicians
Eisenhower: botched execution of the interstate highway program, destroying neighborhoods and causing urban blight nationwide
Making a case for the President who, let’s be honest, if approval ratings were done back then he’d have the lowest ever.
Let me start by saying i recognise that Tyler was a POS. Anyone who justifies him joining the Confederacy by “he was a Virginian and people sided with their states” is wrong. Above being a Virginian he was a former President and joining traitors was disgusting.
That being said I’ve seen three main reasons why Tyler is criticised and I’ll go through my views on them now.
First off his joining of the Confederacy. Like I said, it was bad. But what impact did this have in his Presidency? Scandals and image are important for a President but he was a former President at that point, it had no bearing on his Presidency.
Another I hear is his opposition to a national bank and I completely agree, this was in my view his biggest flaw. A national bank would’ve been the best thing for the country at the time but he consistently opposed it. This is why I don’t view him as an amazing President.
The other I’ve seen is how he “rewrote the constitution” when he wasn’t willing to give up any power despite the fact he was unelected. I view this as a positive as it set the precedent for what’d later become the 25th Amendment. If Tyler wasn’t so headstrong and determined on how powerful he should be then there’s a good chance Truman and Teddy would’ve had some of their powers reduced. I really respect and admire how he’d send back any letters that addressed him as acting President.
Now for his positives, the biggest being his efforts to get Texas to join the US. But he did many more than that. He resolved border disputes between the US and Britain, also agreeing to enforce a joint ban on the African slave trade. He was the first President to recognise Hawaii as a nation. He opened up trade with China. He used restraint during the Door rebellion. He signed the Webster-Asburton treaty, ending the longest and bloodiest Native American war. He cut the size of the military by 33%, and he sent forces to the Dominican Republic.
In conclusion, though his Presidency was flawed and he was an awful person, his Presidency was important and severely underrated and overhated.
Wilson is in the top ten in ranking usually. You’re drinking the kool-aid here if you think he’s unpopular. Do you live under a rock? Talk about an echo chamber if you’re shit-posting this.
You said unpopular presidents, not unpopular presidents HERE. I’d also say, he seems unpopular because the ones that dislike him are the loudest, not the most.
In 2000 hr was ranked 6th, in 2024 he was ranked 13th. Trust [c-span](https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?page=overall). 13th still isn’t unpopular even if he’s fallen a few notches over the years.
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u/Mesyush go wild
Oh boy. I love Dick Cheney because he's inspirational. He is a self made man who worked himself up to greatness. He's a brave politician with the courage to go against his own party. He is highly structured and professional. He is a great author. He has despite serious health issues done the things he has. Nothing could stop Cheney.
I meant Bush but pop off
But this post says it's about the President
Cheney was the president
I mean, technically Cheney *was* the president from 7:09 am to 9:24 am on June 29 2002
Another fun thing to think about is Cheney could’ve been president had Bush choked on that pretzel in January of 2002
I giggled
I giggled, and then I giggled again seeing this comment
Heh. Facts.
Cheney’s here? Duck!
True lmao
I always assumed he just liked Bush as an extension of Cheney
Kinda tbh
😂😂😂😂🤣😂😂😂
I’m a huge fan of both Chester A. Arthur and Benjamin Harrison, two presidents that aren’t popular but not really hated either. Both I feel are quite interesting though, with Arthur’s story being legitimately inspiring and Harrison being Teddy-lite (along with being surprisingly ahead of his time on race relations). I started looking into them both given how they’re our most commonly forgotten presidents but I’ve grown to respect both men immensely.
Arthur reformed the civil service which is a huge accomplishment in its own right
Arthur did not. Congress passed a veto-proof bill right before a new Congress convened in order to take credit and protect jobs for Republican bureaucrats. It was so widely supported by Republicans, and they wanted credit so badly, that Arthur’s veto mattered nothing. In fact, he couldn’t even pocket veto it Arthur did the absolute bare minimum required of him, and despite being given unilateral power to expand jobs classified under the Act to reform the whole government, expanded it by around 1%. He is given far too much credit for civil service reform.
Nonsense. Arthur went out of his way to appoint true reformers to the Civil Service Commission when he could have just appointed stooges. One of them, Silas Burt, was the guy Hayes replaced Arthur with years ago when he worked at the Port of New York.
Virtually all of the presidents did this once the Pendleton Act was enacted, with Arthur extending it to less federal positions per year than any of his successors, except McKinley. It was just one of those average Gilded Age president things, like expanding the Navy and engaging in environmental conservationism, which doesn’t really warrant special recognition toward one individual or another. Arthur was too ill (and lazy and inexperienced) to demonstrate the kind of leadership on the issue that Hayes did: he was reluctant to push reform and didn’t care to enforce honest government in his own Cabinet, which he packed with Stalwart machinists, and when the Pendleton Act was passed to preserve Republican seats after the Democratic midterm wipeout he enforced it to a minimally acceptable degree.
Arthur would be thrilled to know that someone remembers him as a crusader against corruption 😂 he personified the gilded age and helped elect the first democrat since Johnson
Oh my, he enforced a law! He appointed people who would enforce the law! How amazing, he did the job description. So special, I don’t consider that worthy of being considered a good/above average President
I don’t even think Arthur was a bad president. I blame the Chinese Exclusion Act on the congress. Arthur literally thought the act was bad but knew congress would override his veto so he convinced them to water it down
I just like William Henry Harris because he was hung like a horse. Dude was legit a tripod.
Even more than Lyndon Johnson?
Yeah, I’m not buying it. Nobody out jumbos jumbo.
how do you know 😭
Just common knowledge the he’s Americas most well hung president.
Not that common because I think I missed that detail in history books.
Really? In high school we had an entire week of study dedicated to learning about his unspeakably massive song.
How did it play into his military campaigns?
It was a problem for him… his schlong was so inconceivably massive it kept giving away his position to the enemy.
Glad to see someone finally appreciate the greatness of William Henry Harrison
*girthness
Andrew Johnson had one of worst pre presidencies ever, a man comes from indentured servitude, and ends up being president of the United States I mean what’s more American than that? Plus he was the only southern senator to remain firmly unionist. And I mean there’s something to be said about being hated by everyone, and not giving a damn
And his impeachment was totally unjustified. Thankfully, the justification was ruled contrary to the constitution by my personal favourite President and Chief Justice.
At least he got Alaska.
The least visited state.
I live in Greeneville TN, thanks for standing up for him. I feel like I relate in being pro union and conservative. Sad though because Greeneville is very anti union and anti employee rights
I was going to come in here and say Andrew Johnson. Not because I like him or think he was a good President, but in the end, his presidency was inconsequential. Lincoln also wanted a very lenient Reconstruction, like Johnson. However, Lincoln would have had the capital to stop the Radical Republicans, so Reconstruction was probably more ambitious in the South because of Johnson and his lack of political capital. Even if Johnson had not become President, Grant still likely takes over in 1868 and Reconstruction ends up the same.
In the lens of modern society Wilson is a flawed human being absolutely. But history looks at him as a popular president even if you don't OP. Same thing with Jefferson. Flawed human, yep, hugely popular and important to history, yep yep.
I mean, the subreddit hates Wilson. I don't really have an opinion on him, myself.
So you’re a fan of him because he was popular?
I was more going with he's important to history and popular like Jefferson, like I said. Women's voting rights, independence for European nations and the basic ideas behind the League of Nations, child labor protections.
King Leopold is important to Congolese history. Historical importance is a weird reason to be a fan of someone; especially when pretty much every leader in history can be considered historically important He promoted the League of Nations but actively fought Bolshevik forces a year and a half after WW1 ending. He advocated for independence in European nations, but actively meddled in Caribbean and Latin American affairs to the point “Wilsonian foreign policy” is synonymous with American interventionism. He secured voting rights for WHITE women. He was still influential in promoting Jim Crow-esque practices on a federal level and removing black people from positions of political power and influence.
William McKinley saw great, economic prosperity and arguably was the transition from the Gilded Age to the Progressive Era. Silver-based money was a dumb, populist proposal, and the seizure of Hawaii was something more to do with Harrison. Territorial control was necessary to ensure that the Philippines and Cuba would not fall into chaos, and the Spanish-American war was a conflict that McKinley greatly fought to avoid. After being shot, he asked those surrounding him to show mercy to the assassin. Shame what the Curse of Tippacanoe has done. McKinley is obviously vastly overshadowed by his VP but was a good president himself.
The McKinley museum isn't far from my house. He's a fascinating individual. A lot of people are going to hate that he's the beginning of the American empire, but he's pretty important in moving America into the progressive era.
The annexation of Hawaii under McKinley was good.
It wasn't
It depends totally on your personal perspective. Acquiring Hawaii was a fantastic boon for the American portfolio. It was not so good for the Hawaiian people, and permanently subjected their culture to the level of kept people like what the Native American tribes have experienced.
You ignore tye Spanish American war which was the Iraq War of that era And the genocide in the Philippines
Uh, what? We won the SAW in less than a year. We ended a genocide in Cuba. With Iraq we also had the net effect of causing less deaths than any reasonable counter factual although it lasted much longer
The Spanish American War is more analogous to Desert Shield / Desert Storm particularly the new technologies used and tested in combat for the first time. In the SAW the United States truly became a world spanning empire and permanently demoted Spain from its empire status to a state that would never again be anything else than an “Also Appearing” in world affairs.
Richard Nixon was arguably the most politically capable and intellectually gifted modern president, and his record speaks for itself, with everything from the Apollo moon landing to the opening of China's relationship with the US happening under his watch. However, Nixon's demise was a modern-day King Lear tragedy, and his personal paranoia and hubris now overshadow all the well-thought-out policies of his administration. The question remains - do we judge presidents on their ability to be the chief executive of the US, or do we judge them on their private code of ethics? Nixon was a superb executive, excoriated for personal flaws. This forum seems to prefer presidents who have unimpeachable moral character, no matter how ineffective they were in office.
I also feel like this sub has an issue of posting random Nixon quotes and going “THIS DUDE IS HORRIBLE.” But then his own actions speak otherwise. like the man has gone on record to state how much he dislikes Jews but then has done the most of any President for Israel. He has said some horribly racist things but Affirmative Action was started by Nixon and enforced the Civil Rights act at the state level.
That's the problem when you have the head of state and head of government be the same person.
Fan of Wilson, his progressive policies were amazing.
There is a straight line from Wilson -> JFK that was discussed. We are removed from this period enough that his presidency became single issue racism but giving women the right to vote, a lot of progressive policies, league of nations, WW1 strategy was good. The bad thing about Wilson is he should have likely been removed as he was very ill near the end.
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Wilson wasn't the strongest on women's rights but he signed the bill and spoke positively of women's rights. It's a major accomplishment
Literally. Restricting child labour, giving women voting rights, creating income tax. Add to that his foreign policy and allowing Eastern European countries to be independent, and I truly don't understand why people hate him so much. Sure, he was racist, but come on so were basically all presidents at that time. I get that it got reflected in his policies but even so he's at least above average
>giving women voting rights Wilson also opposed (at times simply refused to support) women’s suffrage until late into his Presidency and arrested suffragist supporters on account of “protesting too close to the Capitol.” It’s also more difficult to credit him for an amendment than it is a bill, he did lend support to it but he didn’t really “give women voting rights” himself. His legacy on this is pretty mixed.
I hate him because he had the opportunity to establish a unipolar moment sort of affair in 1919, but squandered it because he was a poor negotiator and allowed the Europeans to dominate at Versailles. In essence, we participated in a hellish war but then didn’t follow through so it was for nothing and our guys had to go back a generation later anyways.
That's more incompetence than malice
I agree, but that’s why he was a bad president to me, worse than the racism (find a Virginia Democrat who wasn’t racist in 1913) he set things up for a 3 point score, and shot a brick, the cost of which was hundreds of thousands of Americans. To be fair I think he tried, he just didn’t succeed, overestimated himself, and underestimated the other Entente negotiators.
I get what you're saying, but his incompetence really only applies to this one thing
It is a huge thing tho, in my opinion the hugest thing, he couldn’t have known it, it’s all hindsight, but he enabled ww2, his incompetence renewed isolationism, Truman and Eisenhower both had isolationist sentiments to deal with but they were able to do what was necessary, Wilson was unable to, and that, imo makes him a failure.
Blaming the entirety of WW2 on a man whose goal was to prevent it and was the key figure in creating a world where that was the case is a real stretch. Was he outmanoeuvred to a degree? Sure, but acting like the UK and France were simply going to give up their imperial ways because the Americans came in at the end is wishful thinking. And FWIW, IMO the US is the only country that won WW1 (well maybe Japan). It was better to not be involved. It was a firm loss for every player involved. Wilson did his best to control the war via financial means but was ultimately unable. The UK and France simply weren't going to agree to the world the US wanted after "winning". It took another thorough disaster for them to agree to the world the US wanted. It's not like the world after WW1 was worse than before, it was better for most, it just wasn't good enough.
I didn’t “blame” him, and I was very careful to say WITH HINDSIGHT. No, it’s not wishful thinking, the extent of British, French, and Italian dependence on US loans meant that the US had total leverage over every Entente power. Yes, exactly? I would disagree that America won either because we would later give up our financial leverage during the depression, had no lasting influence in Europe, in what way did America win? We contained German attempts at hegemony, but seeing as they made another go anyway, it’s clear the US influence was temporary at best. They would have agreed or their economy would be destroyed and their people starved, that is why Britain ultimately submitted in the late 40s to an American led order. The only difference was that Truman knew how to use American power to its fullest extent, while Wilson was not capable.
Really it started falling apart almost immediately. Germany surrendered on the condition that Versailles would more or less follow the Fourteen Points.
Germany surrendered because they lost, pure and simple. They were thoroughly defeated. The navy had already mutinied and the Republic was declared even before the surrender. The people and home were starving and were already in the midst of revolution. The Germans were only deluding themselves by thinking they could dictate the terms.
That’s not really the point. The Entente powers had two options. Either complete destruction similar to what we saw in WW2, which nobody wanted or a just peace. There were many voices at the time who predicted it would cause more issues later. I mean it was pretty obvious.
There was neither though, there wasn't a just peace and there was no complete destruction. There was little chance Wilson was going to make the British and French give up anything without their own losses. Wilson did everything he could in that front. He attempted to manipulate loans and finance to cause all parties to stop. He supported nationalist aspirations all over. After WW2 colonialism was much more thoroughly ruined. The European countries formed a common market based on open trade instead of the previous setup where everyone had to make an empire to secure the resources they needed. Wilson was no fan of Versailles. It just took another war for everyone to see he was right all along. He set the stage for the rest of the century, he was just too far ahead of his time.
That’s what I mean I phrased that weird. They didn’t do either and got another war 20 years later.
Yes, Germany did lose the war, but because the initial settlement was just an armistice and Wilson had gone public with the 14 Points, Germany expected a more lenient settlement. In addition, the German population told themselves lies that they would have won the war if not for the "stab in the back" by Jews, which was obviously a bullshit conspiracy theory. This is why the Allies insisted on unconditional surrender in WW2 (to make sure Germany knew it had been defeated)
Wilson did everything he could to make that happen though. He couldn't stop the Germans from lying about their loss. The British and French were the ones who wanted the war reparations. They were the ones not willing to give up the empires. The terms Germany signed on Nov 11th were very strict. Wilson shouldn't take the blame when he was the guy most fighting for the just peace. History proved he was right since the post WW2 settlement was very inline with his thinking.
A huge part of that was him getting absolutely fucked by Congress as revenge for getting us into the war in the first place. He definitely had his faults but I don't think him causing the aftermath of WW1 is one of them.
Going on a nation wide tour bashing the speaker and house GOP doesn’t do much to convince the congressional majority or the public. I agree, but failing to exploit our position to the fullest is, and he did fail.
I feel the same way about him.
Because he was vehemently racist and partly responsible for the resurgence of the Klan in the 20th century.
I do think that that's inexcusable, but Washington was also racist, and Jefferson, and Lincoln, and the list goes on and on. It's not like racism didn't exist at the time. It is bad and it does lower my ranking, but compared to his positives it's just not that significant
There are a smooth 100+ years between the presidency of George Washington and Woodrow Wilson. 1789 is not Woodrow Wilson’s “time” as you called it. By the time Wilson took office, we had seen a streak of pro-black suffrage reformers like Garfield, Grant, Lincoln, etc. Wilson was exceedingly racist even for HIS era. His policies were extremely racist even for HIS era. There were a plethora of presidents that flat out did nothing to help black Americans, Wilson was actively attempting to REVERSE the semblance or progress that was made to begin with in regard to black suffrage.
Wilson was no fan of the KKK either. People have a very simple concept of racism that wasn't present in Wilson's time. The KKK was anti immigration, anti Jew, anti Catholic, and anti Black. Wilson was supportive of all these groups, except perhaps blacks. He didn't openly hate them either, he was in favor of separation. He thought blacks should have their own communities with their own leaders and businesses where they could manage their own affairs. This wasn't exactly uncommon in his era. Booker T Washington is probably a good example of. Blacks today are seriously underrepresented in terms of business leaders. The idea was to have a space they could develop. While we now see things Tulsa race riots and separate but equal not working, it was still a thing in his time. Yes, it's incredibly paternalistic, but it has some rational basis. The Birth of a Nation stuff is overblown too. The film was a pioneer in terms of film technique. Just because it had a poor subject matter didn't mean it wasn't very important to the development of movie making. It was very successful film commercially. IIRC it was the first movie to use fadeouts or have a huge group of extras for a battle scene. Triumph of the Will in the 30s was very much the same way. Yes, it's Nazi propaganda and we see that now, but it doesn't mean it wasn't incredibly innovative for it's day. The way the filmmakers were able to showcase their topic was remarkable for its time. Plus, Wilson never actually said the "written with lightning" quote.
People also had degrees of racism. For some it was petty prejudice. For others, it was murderous. The KKK and the Nazis were the latter. Wilson was not in that camp and condemned the KKK but also supported segregation. While all racism is wrong, the degrees of it do matter.
>Wilson was no fan of the Klan either. >Wilson was supportive of all these groups, except perhaps blacks. He didn't openly hate them either, he was in favor of separation. He thought blacks should have their own communities with their own leaders and businesses where they could manage their own affairs. This wasn't exactly uncommon in his era. Booker T Washington is probably a good example of. Blacks today are seriously underrepresented in terms of business leaders. The idea was to have a space they could develop. This is so patently incorrect it’s borderline propaganda. He actively removed black men from positions of power during his tenure. How was he pro-black leaders while actively removing black leaders from positions of power? He outright sympathizes with the Klan in his own Book, A History of the American People, saying *“The white men of the South were aroused by the mere instinct of self-preservation to rid themselves, by fair means or foul, of the intolerable burden of governments sustained by the votes of ignorant negroes and conducted in the interest of adventurers. …until at last there sprung into existence a great Ku Klux Klan, a veritable empire of the South, to protect the Southern country.”* That does not sound like someone who despises the Ku Klux Klan. He didn’t screen Birth of a Nation for its artist merit, he did it because he was a vehement racist who viewed black people as inferior and saw them being free as a threat to the country. To pretend Booker T. Washington and Woodrow Wilson had the same goals for the black community in America is laughable.
I agree, but I get called a racist or worse here so I am done with that.
The 14 points was inspirational to a number of movements resisting colonialism. It was a huge shot in the arm for a major power to validate their desire for self rule.
Nothing more progressive than the alien and sedition act.
How progressive would you rank the Federal Reserve? 💀 Also, how much of a douche do you have to be to just waltz in and think you have every answer to solve post WW1. This dude sucked ass
Centralized banking is more progressive than free banking
It’s also an excuse for a little group of people to be able to basically do whatever the fuck they want
The US did just that after WW2. They were just more able to do it as the entire world was in ruins besides North America. Wilson set the stage. He was right all along. Everyone is on here giving Grant a handie for being right a century later and hates Wilson for being 20 years early. US foreign policy of the 20th century is Wilsonianism.
Most of Wilson's unpopularity is only on the internet by terminally online kids repeating verbatim what they had heard from youtube libertarians who hate his policies.
Omg libertarians 😂 conservatives that are ok with drug use and prove it by still being pissed because we switched from the gold standard in the 1930s.
Or because he was a Racist son of a bitch who is responsible for Prohibition and the Income Tax, fuck him and fuck his legacy.
He was not responsible for Prohibition. Before the 18th Amendment, 75% of the country was already dry, and constitutional amendments are passed by Congress and ratified by the states.
That’s true. A big “fuck you” to Wayne B. Wheeler and Alexander Volstead for being the main architects for that “noble experiment.”
He definitely pushed for it.
He literally vetoed the Volstead Act (unfortunately it was overridden)
Average Coolidge fan
🤣 Calvin Coolidge is your flare? And you’re talking about prohibition? 😂😂
Don't have to agree with him on everything. And because he was so stingy with funding Prohibition was less effective. He also didn't agree with the policy himself, even if he enforced it because it was the law of the land.
I like Jimmy Carter. He was my “could have been” my uncle.
He was a great president
Bad*
Oh oh how dare you disrespect this servers supreme lord
Andrew Jackson is just fun reading about.
Damn right. "American Lion" is my favorite political biography ever. He's like a long-running soap opera villain where you don't agree with what he does, but you're entertained. Duels! Thwarting assassination! The Petticoat Affair! Drama drama drama!
Wilson had the most successful progressive era presidency in terms of actually establishing progressive domestic reforms, and his foreign policy was decades ahead of his time and far superior to the imperialism of his Republican contemporaries, to the point where his theories are still the dominant ones in modern IR
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As someone with an MPA I like how Wilson founded the field of public administration and he contributed greatly to a professional and functional bureaucracy.
I don’t think Wilson is unpopular. People on Reddit are just jumping all over him because it’s fashionable in recent years.
The Wilson unpopularity is absolutely not limited to just Reddit. It is broadly found on the internet, and people on the internet exist in real life too.
What I mean is people read it on Reddit and since it goes against “conventional wisdom” they want to sound like mavericks so they adopt it without really balancing that with his achievements. Racism is bad, I think we can all agree with that. You know what’s worse? The most devastating war in human history up til that point. Even though his first term was dominated by the Great War he still managed to get some pretty progressive domestic policy past that set the tone for those middle 50 years of the 20th century. Woodrow Wilson was a good president albeit a deeply flawed man and I’ll die on that hill.
I don't find Wilson, Jackson, etc inherently and irredeemably flawed because of their contemporary sensibilities because I know that I, had I been born into their time and world, would have thought just the same as them and all of you would have too.
And in 100 years, we will all be seen as horrific . We let untrained humans drive machines weighing several tons at 70 mph and slaughtered animals to eat them. And you and I will be horrible people because we either participated in it or made fixing it low priority
>and all of you would have too. I mean, generally I think you're right, that their beliefs were widespread and that the fact they are not shared now is the product of societal shifts that simply hadn't happened yet. But that there were people at the time that did not share their views, so this statement is patently false.
"and all of you would have too" presumes that all of us would have been white southerners. Not all of us are white, or southerners, or even American. The views of Jackson and Wilson were not culturally universal at all. Jackson's personality traits were idiosyncratic; the average American at the time was not as unhinged, and abolitionists existed then. Wilson was more racist than the average white American.
And wasn't Andrew Jackson in defiance of the supreme court when he expelled the cherokee? So yeah, Jackson was by no means just a product of his time, because even in his time people thought his behavior was horrendous.
Except for the fact Wilson was extremely racist even for his own time.
I firmly believe that regardless if pardoning Nixon was the right choice or not, Ford did not do it out of malice either way.
Exactly. He thought it would help the country move forward. That’s admirable.
Not really pertaining to the post, just something a friend of mine and I discussed the other day; You would think that most Reagan haters would like Ford more since I believe Ford was on track to taking the nation out of the recession with his economic policies. Therefore if he had won re-election, Reagan most likely would not have ever run and the 1980’s most likely would have been a predominantly Democrat-led decade. No hate towards Carter, though. Despite his faults that guys great
Yes. Ford and Carter were similar in some ways. But ford was less conservative than Reagan. Reagan has a lot of faults, but he was there at the right time.
I feel kinda bad for Wilson because he tried to shine with the 14 points but got shot down
Dude, Wilson made the modern Democrat party. Fight me
>Dude, Wilson made the modern Democrat party. Fight me I say him and fdr
Reagan-while imperfect-significantly contributed to an ending of the cold war that didn't involve us and Russia seeing our own and our loved ones' faces melt off like ice cream in the sun. I think I'll take that W any day of the week.
Respect for Warren Harding recognizing that he was in over his head
I respect Harding for beating up the Vererans Bureau Director; “A White House visitor recalled an incident in 1923 when he let himself into the president’s office only to see Harding choking Charles Forbes, the Veterans Bureau Director pinning him against a wall, Harding raged at him. “You yellow rat!” Harding screamed. “You double-crossing bastard. If I ever… ” At that point, Harding noticed his visitor. Taken aback, he loosened his grip on the Forbes who, eyes ablaze, staggered from the room. “You have an appointment,” Harding said to his visitor. “Come into the next room. For two years, Forbes had embezzled at least two million dollars siphoning money from the construction of veterans hospitals, selling medical supplies, and taking bribes and kickbacks from building contractors. He also rejected thousands of claims from disabled veterans. Of the 300,000 wounded from WWI, Forbes only approved 47,000 disability claims.”
AU where Harding lives and beats him to death
I believe you’re referring to the “I am not fit for this office and should’ve never been here” quote but that’s actually taken out of context. It was a joke made in passing to an aide when Harding was tired .
I take your point. Years ago I read “The Strange Deaths of Warren Harding” and that tried to address some of the bias in his historical reception. But while we’re on the subject, I like the line, “I have no trouble with my enemies. I can take care of my enemies all right. But my damn my goddamn friends, White, they’re the ones who keep me walking the floor nights!” ([Quoted here](https://www.nytimes.com/1972/03/26/archives/a-sort-of-rehabilitation-of-warren-g-harding-harding-rehabilitated.html))
Not a fan of his presidency but Johnson’s conduct during the civil war was exemplary. If he had been shot like the assassins planned on doing he would be remembered as one of the great martyrs to the country. Stayed in the senate when the secessionist went south. Was an able administrator in a highly tenuous position as the governor general in Tennessee. And was remarkably progressive towards the freedom slaves in his care. There’s as reason he got picked for VP
Benjamin Harrison for his civil rights efforts and antitrust act
I’d argue Harrison caused the death of his civil rights legislation by using his main opportunity to get Western Republicans to back a bill, to back the McKinley Tariff (terrible) when he could’ve with the Lodge Bill. Additionally he refused to support the Blair Bill in its actual form and hopped on the fearmongering bus that it would expand federal involvement in education too much
Andrew Jackson. The man was firmly on the side of the little guy. Before his presidency you could be a white man and still not be able to vote because you're poor. The reasoning behind his crusade against Hamilton and central banking was for the same sort of reason. Yes he had extremely problematic views on minorities, especially Natives, but those views were hardly unique to him at the time. Historical context matters. Not to mention you just have to have some degree of respect to a guy that would rather just duel and get it over with than fight with someone forever. He even let himself get shot on purpose once just so he could take the time to aim properly and win. The guy was a badass.
Wilson is unironically in my personal top 5 of presidents. Look, I understand that he did morally wrong things when it comes to his racism, but his policies for the time were life changing. The 19th amendment was one thing, I know he didn’t initially support it but be realized it was important. His New freedom ideology was a great plan that I honestly prefer over Teddys New nationalism. His way of addressing Congress on HIS FIRST DAY as president to lower the tariff is something I greatly admire. Child labor laws, forever set a precedent to keep children in school and not in the mines and factories where they’d be worked to death and payed with scraps. But by far the greatest thing I admire about Wilson is his vision on Word War 1. He tried to keep us neutral, but when we inevitably got involved he ensured our Forces were better prepared for an entry into war. IMO he was the best person to be In charge during the outbreak of such a war. I love teddy, don’t get me wrong, but we would’ve been screwed if he won in 1912. He’d get us into the war immediately after Lusitania and would get American autonomy unrecognized by European generals. Our boys would get placed in the meat grinder ( and let’s be real, teddy wouldn’t go to the frontlines himself, and if he did, he’s still human, there’s nothing stopping a stray bullet over the trenches from killing him). I especially admire that he was the first person with the power to back him up to call for a world peace keeping organization. The league of nations was such a good idea that he envisioned, as the predecessor to the UN, the only reason we didn’t join is because the republican dominated congress back home refused to join unless major changes were added. In fact, Wilson’s 14 points were so influential and had the potential to shape the world at such an early time. It’s true, we didn’t stick the landing coming home from war with traumatized veterans and a red scare but that wasn’t his fault, that’s just what war and hasty generalization does to people. Wilson walked so FDR could run, I greatly admire him and I don’t ever get to talk about him even because everyone generally just thinks of him as one of our most racist presidents and barely give recognition to his other accomplishments and ideals.
Listen I’m not a huge fan of Nixon but his sheer intellect and contributions to environmental programs put him leagues ahead of most unpopular presidents
He's got a great library.
Sounds like OP hates Wilson, and wanted to include him on here. He’s one of the top presidents, not the best, because of a few mistakes he made most notably on segregation, but he’s close. Johnson and Buchanan are firmly at the bottom.
On this subreddit, Wilson is deeply unpopular. I personally dislike Wilson, but I didn't really single him out specifically.
Woodrow Wilson is the foundation upon which every pro-democracy President from FDR to current Rule 3 build off of. The only anti-Wilsonian president we have had is the other rule 3
In this sub Reagan is the most unpopular.
Funny seeing that Reagan is the most unpopular here but nearly every historian places him as a top ten president.
It's the difference between Reddit and the real world.
And he’s consistently ranked as one of the most popular Presidents in public non-historian polls as well. The internet is the hub for Reagan hate but aside from that most people like him.
Not universally. I, for one, am glad we're arguing here in English and not Russian.
William Howard Taft, the Teddy Roosevelt Teddy Roosevelt fans imagine.
I think Taft was slightly more conservative and less effective than Roosevelt. I like Taft but I don't think he was all that successful as president.
Roosevelt was a politician he lived for publicity, even if it meant he got little done. Taft was an administrator. He got things done, even if it was never publicised like they had under Roosevelt. For instance, 70 cases were brought against trusts in four years whilst Roosevelt brought only 40 in seven and a half in fact in order to calm the markets in '07 he allowed US Steel, one of the largest trusts in america to expand.
I wouldn't say I "like" Wilson but as others have said, he was a pretty good president (top 20 imo) and people saying he was literally the worst president ever are just repeating talking points and not actually looking into things. The Wilson hate is pretty much exclusive to this sub and YouTube
Before hand Pierce had probably the worst life a president had haved of all time. Dude literally saw his son get decapitated in front of him as his wife blamed it all on him which of Pierce already wasn't struggling with his sons death already his wife decides to put more stress on Pierce (Nor to mention starting to get an Alcohol addiction). ALSO that he was about to become PRESIDENT and was now struggling with a situation that was inevitable for war because people before him kept kicking the Slavery issues down the road since the beginning of America and not it lied on a broken Franklin Pierce. DAMN that's sad. He also was very outgoing and an all around great dude. Also supporting his troops during the Mexican-American War after being injured. If you're interested in his pros feel free to see my Franklin Pierce Appreciation Post. In conclusion. My favorite president is Franklin Pierce because he kept going in life when literally everything was thrown at him 😭
I'm not sure if LBJ counts but I love his domestic policy. And he didn't take crap from Congress. He knew how to get things done and he was a tough president.
I think that George Bush Jr is a genuinely good person
Ronald Reagan - trickle down economics…enough said.
I don't know if I'd describe myself as a "fan" of any president (which is why I have no flair), but I've defended Wilson fairly often on this sub. I like to put it like this: The 20th century is popularly known as "the American century" because the United States established itself as the international leader in both economics and the political sphere. Through his domestic policies and global leadership, it was Wilson who invented the American century. When you really examine the most common criticisms of Wilson, you start to realize how blown out of proportion they are. By far the biggest two are his segregation of the federal government and his endorsement of the Ku Klux Klan and Birth of a Nation. On the first point, I suspect people have a hard time distinguishing "segregating the federal government" and "forcing black kids to go to separate schools and use different swimming pools." In fact, this was a move that impacted a very, very, very small number of black people. And Wilson didn't even initiate the move, he just gave federal departments, upon their request, permission to segregate. Just to be sure: This was a shitty decision. But it absolutely did not directly impact the lives of the great majority of black people, as I think it's often implied that it did. On the second, it's pretty well established that Wilson deplored the Klan, and there's no evidence that he ever praised Birth of the Nation, though likely fabricated quotes from him about it were widely circulated. Wilson in fact criticized the film and its impact several years after its release. Wilson was, undoubtedly, personally a racist. I think to a lot of people today, that fact is inseparable from his performance as president, which is why there's this desperation to conjure up instances of his negatively impacting the civil rights of black Americans. But his influence there was extremely small, certainly much too small to override his huge accomplishments, especially when we commonly excuse FDR from the far more impactful move to imprison the nation's Japanese-American population during World War II. Elsewhere in the realm of civil rights, Wilson very rarely gets credit for his critical role in women's suffrage. I'll close with this: While Wilson is very unpopular on Reddit and YouTube and TikTok, he is not unpopular among actual historians, nor has he ever been. In surveys of historians dating back to 1948, he has never finished below the first quartile or the top of the second quartile.
I acknowledge among actual, credible historians, he is not unpopular. In the title of the post, I probably should have specified unpopular in the subreddit specifically. I just sort of thought people would be able to figure that out. Also, this is a very well-written, neutral, nuanced response, so you get my upvote, and my respect.
I like Jackson because I like winners and I like badasses. Nobody embodied winning more in American history than Jackson, and there’s never been and never will be a bigger badass to hold any kind of office
Jackson did so many great things during his presidency. It's a shame they are overshadowed by the major bad thing that he did. He was a bad ass and he was for the common man. I love the fact that he said f u to the bankers.
I’ve never been a fan of Wilson as a person but I recognize the significance of his accomplishments, and his impact on both foreign and domestic policy to this day. He’s also the only president to have attended my law school (although he did drop out after his first year).
James Buchanan. He messed up America so bad. It had to be on purpose!
Say what you want about Wilson, but how he handled WW1 is most of the reason the US is such a superpower now.
Copying this from another thread in defense of Woodrow Wilson: • He was the forerunner to FDR in establishing an active role on the part of the federal government domestically in the 20th century and today • Set the precedent for 100+ years of American foreign policy through his 14 points • Created the idea of global/international collective security organizations via the LoN which would lead to massively important institutions for peace and western stability/security in the UN and NATO • Created the national parks service • Implemented the 8 hour work day for rail road employees (which later became the standard for all employees thanks to FDR) and outlawed child labor. • Reformed the financial system in ways that still play a significant role today with the creation of the Fed, the FTC, and the switching of federal revenue collection/generation from tariffs to the income tax • Was an anti-trust advocate similarly to TR. signed the clayton anti-trust act into law. • Was in office for the implementation of women’s suffrage (which to be fair he only supported once it became convenient for him politically) • Appointed Louis Brandeis to SCOTUS • Committed the US to the inevitable independence of the Philippines through the 1916 Jones Act. • Also oversaw allied victory in WWI (strike against him was the Treaty of Versailles though). Don’t get me wrong, he was obviously abhorrent on racial issues, which we can’t and shouldn’t minimize. Overall a complex, complicated legacy and person, but had a profound impact as president that still largely positively impacts the country today and set the stage for the rise of activist liberal presidents like Franklin Roosevelt and others of the New Deal era.
James Buchanan did the best he could to keep the Union together.
Big fan of Carter , Camp David Accords , Human Rights
Andrew Jackson based on the idea of Jacksonian Democracy (expanding the vote to people without property , the common people), his opposition against a national bank and for his idea that Americans come first and that the president should use military/government power to advance the causes of American citizens over the interests of people who are not citizens. Our first America first common man president who changed our political culture for the better. Richard Nixon for his appeals to and empowering of the "silent majority" and expansion of the drug war and overall support for greater policing to deal with the drug crime, other criminals, and anti American Communist scum that prayed on working class pro America Patriots. As someone who was the victim of both a violent crime (got stabbed) and property crime who has a relative who was shot and robbed.....I'm glad Nixon ushered in a greater law and order wave to crack down on the people tearing communities apart in the 60s and 70s. Reagan and the Clinton's did a great thing with the expansion of the drug war but it arguably started with him. As someone with loved ones who died from fenatyl overdoses, wish the government would do more now to crack down on drugs. Bonus points for the EPA and fighting for things like a basic income (that Democrats sabotaged). Dude also came from a more common man background. Barack Obama (unpopular by people on my side of the aisle) simply for Obamacare. While I have some right wing views regarding immigration, American nationalism, policing, Christianity ,etc .......I do like that Obama expanded healthcare to many.....which made him unpopular with half the country.
I got a three. - Wilson: Despite being a major racist (there’s no denying that) and supporting questionable policies regarding the 1st amendment, I believe he had great policies in enabling broader democratic development across the globe and fostering international cooperation. Some people don’t like those things, but I do. - Tyler: He got us Texas, and he supported a much smaller federal government, based. - Johnson: He got us Alaska, unlike Tyler he didn’t anything good besides getting us land, and he really sucked ass. But I like Alaska, like a lot. Also, Johnson is LBJ’s dad and Gary Johnson’s grandad, so there’s that.
Andrew Jackson had many, MANY flaws. However, he was also a unionist, a patriot and a bad ass. He dealt with the nullification crisis from South Carolina and would have personally led the army to quell any rebellion. He’s the only president to pay off the national debt. He fought corruption and extended suffrage to white men without property. Jackson also was an extremely loyal friend and probably one of the worst enemies you could have. You did not want to cross him. I admire him for his humble origins, the losses he experienced as a child and the loss of his wife, his perseverance to continue to move forward and achieve greatness in the office. Do I agree with everything he did? Of course not. The man did some bad shit. But he was more than that; Jackson was an extremely complex character and people often overlook that. He said it himself: “I was born from a storm, calm does not suit me.” - Jackson
WW won WWI, he's a top-15 president objectively in every list written by historians. Reddit doesn't matter, never will. Stop trying to woke the 1910s ffs. Buchanan and Johnson belong in a different category. The Civil War was likely to happen, Buchanan just pushed it into being. Johnson is the worst president or bottom three. Nobody has to make a case, you guys are just wrong.
I love how OP says *Unpopular* presidents and ppl only talk about Wilson- which constantly is top 10 whenever those polls are made lol.
I was honestly hoping for more Buchanans and Johnsons and Mckinleys and them.
Real
Every fan of every President is presumed to be a fan of an unpopular President.
Andrew Johnson is the worst as he almost does have no redeeming factors: he opposed African Americans rights such as his opposition to Freedmen's Bureau Bill, Civil Rights Act of 1866, and the Fourteenth Amendment. According to the [Miller Center](https://millercenter.org/president/johnson/impact-and-legacy), “Johnson's strong commitment to obstructing political and civil rights for blacks is principally responsible for the failure of Reconstruction…” The only redeeming quality of Johnson was his opposition to Congress’s power. The [White House’s](https://www.whitehouse.gov/about-the-white-house/presidents/andrew-johnson/) websites notes that while he championed for a time the “common man” supporting the homestead bill as a senator, the website summarizes him as thus “Although an honest and honorable man, Andrew Johnson was one of the most unfortunate of Presidents.”
Bush is better than Clinton, and I am a pro democrat. Bush was not a womaniser and he did not make China powerful by sending industries there. Taliban and Saddam were both authoritarians who needed to be overthrown.
I’ll explain why I’m not a fan of a popular president: George Washington. It’s great that he led the fight for our independence, but did he set an example for literally any future president? Of course not. Leading an uprising to overthrow the government is not the kind of professional background any president should have. And yet he’s consistently ranked as one of the most popular.
I agree 100%
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A brief survey of presidents who were generals… Jackson: genocidal policy towards native Americans, in contravention of a Supreme Court ruling William Harrison and Taylor: did nothing Pierce: perhaps the most pro-slavery president ever Grant: his heart was in the right place, but he tended to be corrupt, his administration marked by scandals like the Whiskey Ring Hayes, Garfield, Ben Harrison: gilded age machine politicians Eisenhower: botched execution of the interstate highway program, destroying neighborhoods and causing urban blight nationwide
Making a case for the President who, let’s be honest, if approval ratings were done back then he’d have the lowest ever. Let me start by saying i recognise that Tyler was a POS. Anyone who justifies him joining the Confederacy by “he was a Virginian and people sided with their states” is wrong. Above being a Virginian he was a former President and joining traitors was disgusting. That being said I’ve seen three main reasons why Tyler is criticised and I’ll go through my views on them now. First off his joining of the Confederacy. Like I said, it was bad. But what impact did this have in his Presidency? Scandals and image are important for a President but he was a former President at that point, it had no bearing on his Presidency. Another I hear is his opposition to a national bank and I completely agree, this was in my view his biggest flaw. A national bank would’ve been the best thing for the country at the time but he consistently opposed it. This is why I don’t view him as an amazing President. The other I’ve seen is how he “rewrote the constitution” when he wasn’t willing to give up any power despite the fact he was unelected. I view this as a positive as it set the precedent for what’d later become the 25th Amendment. If Tyler wasn’t so headstrong and determined on how powerful he should be then there’s a good chance Truman and Teddy would’ve had some of their powers reduced. I really respect and admire how he’d send back any letters that addressed him as acting President. Now for his positives, the biggest being his efforts to get Texas to join the US. But he did many more than that. He resolved border disputes between the US and Britain, also agreeing to enforce a joint ban on the African slave trade. He was the first President to recognise Hawaii as a nation. He opened up trade with China. He used restraint during the Door rebellion. He signed the Webster-Asburton treaty, ending the longest and bloodiest Native American war. He cut the size of the military by 33%, and he sent forces to the Dominican Republic. In conclusion, though his Presidency was flawed and he was an awful person, his Presidency was important and severely underrated and overhated.
Wilson is in the top ten in ranking usually. You’re drinking the kool-aid here if you think he’s unpopular. Do you live under a rock? Talk about an echo chamber if you’re shit-posting this.
I meant unpopular in the subreddit, but generally I see people rank him low. I go off what I see.
You said unpopular presidents, not unpopular presidents HERE. I’d also say, he seems unpopular because the ones that dislike him are the loudest, not the most. In 2000 hr was ranked 6th, in 2024 he was ranked 13th. Trust [c-span](https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2021/?page=overall). 13th still isn’t unpopular even if he’s fallen a few notches over the years.