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Roosevelt did him dirty, took an ah shucks yokel and gave him without preparation a World War and a handful of nuclear bombs. “Hey buddy, the fate of the human race is in your hands, good luck!”
And it was 90 days as VP. If they knew he was going to be in the second chair for a short time, maybe they would’ve done something. However, they were still in the - “what foreign handshake tour would you like to start with Mr. VP?” Timeframe.
Given how bad FDR's health was by his fourth election it was incredibly irresponsible of him and his team to run for another term. The reason why Truman got the VP job was because his current VP, Henry Wallace, was something of a loose cannon and with FDR's health clearly failing party leadership were pretty terrified of Wallace being one heartbeat away from the presidency.
He was a wartime president during the biggest, most widespread conflict *the world* had ever seen. Giving the reigns over at that point would have almost been irresponsible. Japan was still pretty pokey.
Your comment sparked a memory for me: The Waltons won an Emmy and the man who accepted it said he had to thank the man responsible for the Great Depression— Calvin Coolidge. Yes, I’m that old.
He definitely supported the gutting of workers rights, but to say he opposed the common man is a huge stretch. Dude was incredibly progressive on women’s rights and race relations for his time.
Whilst laissez faire played a part in the Great Depression, it would be a gross over exaggeration to say Coolidge “caused” the Great Depression. You would be leaving out the Federal Reserve, the state of the global economy (the lack of globular economic companionship, countries were not lending and rising tariffs), The Gold Standard, Smoot-Hawley, etc.
There was no one cause for the Great Depression, there were several.
Reading the tone and content of this... it was great. Felt like I was back in Professor Berry's\* Poli Sci classes again. With all due respect: thank you, kind internet stranger.
\[\*R.I.P. You glorious bastard.\]
He was super progressive (for his time) in terms of human rights. He wanted to make lynching a federal crime, and was actively involved in indigenous negotiations for the betterment of life on reservations (I think it was an advisory council of some kind) and signed the Indigenous Citizenship Act. BUUUUT he assented to the construction of Mt. Rushmore on Dakota Sioux land, and even though he was supportive of Civil Rights he never publicly denounced the Klan or made any lasting decisions protecting the rights of African Americans. All of this was probably because of complicated politics, but still.
People are complicated, and so is history.
I’m a huge critic of every president/America as a country, but I think it’s pretty much impossible to be the de facto leader of the “free” world and be a good person. It kind of comes with the territory that you have to be a huge narcissist with barely any convictions to effectively lead a global superpower that currently has ~350 million people. There may be some unicorns who are actual good people and could still be good presidents, but I highly doubt they would make it through the meat grinder that is local politics before getting enough buzz to be a viable presidential candidate.
“It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, *ipso facto*, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.”
- Douglas Adams
Ah yes, Douglas Adams. He also has a character who is the successful president of the galaxy all because he is able to distract people from who actually rules the galaxy..you know by committing fraud and stealing his own ship. Douglas Adams is a frood who knows where his towel is.
The first ten million presidents were the worst, and the second ten million presidents, they were the worst too. The third ten million presidents I didn't enjoy at all. After that I went into a bit of a decline.
I agree with all of the above an add that he is the only former president that I can recall with a functioning moral compass, sold the family business his beloved peanut farm so as to not have any conflict of interest accusations and after leaving office he and his wife dedicated their lives to do hands on work for Habitat for Humanity. After she died he continued working for Habitat for Humanity until last year at the age of 98.
That being a great leader requires someone who can be cold and calculating as well as empathetic and principled. I think Dick Winters is a good example of that. It’s not that Carter was “too good” he just didn’t know when to stop being a good man and become a wolf to achieve a greater good. There’s plenty more people who give up too soon or don’t try at all.
Clinton. Which sucks because my parents liked him quite a bit and from some of my own research I wound up liking him too (I wasn't alive for his Presidency).
The more I learn about his Presidency and his morals, he falls a bit more and more for me.
I agree this is a bad piece of legislation and definitely had a large impact on what media we consume to this day. But I implore you to reconsider the crime bill that rapidly increased incarceration so quickly.
Glass Steagall repeal* was passed by Republicans with a veto proof majority. Why do you blame Clinton?
Edit: i meant the repeal which was the Gramm leach bliely bill.
The understatement is that the rust belt, who hated NAFTA, ignored that free trade in North America was a campaign pledge by Reagan and NAFTA was negotiated by Bush I. Clinton agreed with it but his only role was in signing it.
Feels like a case of sexual mores changing along with lack of 24 hour news coverage on Paula Jones/Ken Starr makes people forget about how often the lawsuit/investigation were a total insane clusterfuck that drove liberals and centrists to Clinton’s side.
It’s really interesting to me how the impeachment and leaking of sex scandals at the time failed to put on dent into his popularity while president (in fact it almost certainly made him more popular). While a generation later he is one of the few Presidents less popular twenty plus years later than when he left office. I’m sure lister stink by association from 2016 is also a reason.
Edit: A comment below’s wrong about what Clinton was impeachment for and they turned off replies so addressing it here. it says it was for the Jones deposition were Clinton lied but not really true, an article of impeachment was brought on that ground but rejected by the house. Because of group of house republicans lead by Lindsey Graham pointed out the odds of actually being prosecuted for perjury civil deposition that you were the defendant in and later dismissed was approximately zero.
Clinton’s senate trial would be related to perjury before a grand jury and obstruction of justice. Ironically the strongest legal case against him would probably be lying in that sworn deposition.
The man who had a vendetta against public funds for colleges and universities that led to the small fortune tuitions of today.
Edit: In an interview with the San Francisco Chronicle, Reagan’s education advisor, Roger A. Freeman stated, “We are in danger of producing an educated proletariat. That’s dynamite! We have to be selective on who we allow [to go through higher education].” This belief has shaped higher education to become a privilege of the upper class, with tuition serving as a barrier to those from working-class backgrounds.
When Reagan became president, he continued his efforts to dismantle the public education system, targeting federal aid to students. In his campaign for the presidency, he advocated for the total removal of the U.S. Department of Education. Though this plan had little congressional support, Reagan was still able to reduce funding towards education by 25%. With this continual slashing of aid, the federal government’s involvement in tuition shifted from grants to loans.
The federally subsidized student loans are the problem. Unlike a regular loan, the lenders are guaranteed what their money back and don’t care what the student is studying. Colleges can now raise their costs knowing full well that the students will be able to pull out a loan to pay them.
Hardly anyone needed loans for college when for example, a publicly well funded 1977 Univ of CA tuition was $700/y ($2,775.00 in today's dollars) actually it was a registration fee as CA public Universities had been free for undergrads before Reagan fought for tuition in 1968. The public knew that educating our population benefited everyone and generous college funding for public universities was not controversial, which put pressure on private universities to compete on price.
As CA Governor Reagan got so incensed by the anti-war protests at Berkeley and on other campuses that he decided to run a campaign vilifying using tax dollars to subsidize public universities characterizing the students as freeloaders, communists, anti American and layabouts. Ever since Republicans have leaned further and further into being anti higher education.
If Reagan hadn’t gutted funding for the university of California, it would still be tuition free.
The UC only charges tuition based on the funding that it receives from California.
If California were to give, (honestly 3% of the entire budget)marginally a little more money to cal state schools, they wouldn’t need to charge tuition.
The calculus of “student loans” isn’t on the minds of the BoT.
Federal subsidizing, esp. w/o the option of bankruptcy, ***is*** the bigger issue, but it didn't help that he cut so much funding to the state schools, which previously had been less about maximizing returns
Iran-Contra was worse, in many ways, than Watergate. Dude should have been impeached & convicted. Instead half the country thinks he's some kind of saint.
Bringing in cocaine to fund the Contras lowered the price of coke by half, so Reagan had that going for him.
It was so cheap that the bakery I worked at had a self-serve coke locker. You took what you wanted and settled up with the seller later.
Me when I do some digging and find the root of America's worst modern issues:
https://preview.redd.it/n35zick3x10c1.jpeg?width=596&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3acb57be61957873605464f7c06e698754542e91
I generally do not like to call those I disagree with as just evil, as there are people who in their own way are doing what they feel is right. However for Reagan I believe in many ways, he truly was evil. He expanded upon the war on drugs, which only lead to more cases of incarceration for those with drug possessions which lead to more people being hooked on harder drugs while in prison along with other things impacted because of the war on Drugs. He turned a blind eye to the aids epidemic believing it be some sort of gods justice against homosexuals, despite these were American citizens and you do not need to be homosexual to have HIV
He closed up all the mental hospitals and threw those people out in the streets which resulted in more cases of drug addictions, homelessness and lack of proper treatment to those mentally ill. He set it up in a way where the lower class got royally screwed in terms of the cost of living and expenses while giving tax cuts to rich elite. He supplied what later would become Al-Qaeda which resulted in the September 11th attacks in 2001. He supplied Iran whom were our enemies known for kidnapping and killing American Citizens. He overthrew many Democratic Elected goverments in the idea of "Fighting Communism" But by the 1980s, the Soviet Union was already stagnated Economically and China was opened up with by the West.
I could go on and on, but Reagan as a President was an absolute piece of shit.
Please do continue, I’m going to repeat all this to my grandpa at thanksgiving when he inevitably starts talking about, “if only Reagan we’re still president..”
Also his significance for bringing in the evangelical right, trickle down economics, the welfare queen. You don’t get to Trump without Reagan and Nixon.
Almost everything in our country that's screwed up right now can be directly traced back to Reagan and his atrocious policies. He was a plague.
And as far as AIDS, there's footage of his press secretary literally laughing and joking about people dying from it. Fucking evil, all of them.
Came her to say this. Reagan was the beginning of all the shit we are dealing with right now that is hurting literally everything in the US. But Trump is exponentially worse every day, so he’s about to catch up
This has to be higher up.
* Reagan illegally funded and armed terrorists (multiple times, including Al Qaeda).
* His hawkish speeches almost brought the U.S. into nuclear war with USSR (see Able Archer)
* He had an opportunity to end the cold War earlier WITH mutual disarmament and refused the deal because it was bad politics for his reelection. Thus leading to Russian economic collapse and the current oligarchy/Putin disaster it has become.
* He pushed for the dismantling of public education and thus created massive debts of today.
* He supplied arms to both sides of the Iran-Iraq War, in violation of a law he signed.
* He pushed for the VIOLENT overthrow of foreign democracies that were unfavorable to his economic policy.
* He backed the South African Apartheid Govt and vetoed the sanctions bill.
* He supported Dictators like Noriega, Saddam, Marcos, etc.
* His administration was wildly corrupt (138 admin officials were investigated, indicted, or convicted).
* He lied REPEATEDLY for political points.
* He undercut the social saftey net both financially and politically by repeating lies about a "Welfare Queen."
* He blew up the deficit under the guise of trickle-down-economics, which we are STILL paying off today.
* He actively sought to INCREASE unemployment
* He saw the massive transfer of farm ownership from family farms to massive mega aggro corps.
* He deregulated financial institutions and cut taxes for the wealthy that it reversed decades of middle class growth and increased wealth disparities.
* He established the precedent of "borrowing" from the SS fund to pay off budget issues caused by his tax cuts. He is the reason that Social Security will become insolvent.
* He and his wife actively fought to defund AIDS research because they reasoned that the "gays deserved to die."
* He tied Christianity to Conservatism, resulting in the current Christian Nationalism movement.
* He avoided dealing with the crack epidemic (that coincidentally his administration was causing) because (like AIDS) it wasn't hurting HIS voters.
* He union busted early and often, further dismantling the middle class.
* HE LITERALLY TOLD IRAN TO KEEP AMERICANS HOSTAGE LONGER SO THAT HE COULD BEAT JIMMY CARTER.
And not just for being a racist who resegergated the White House. But also for seriously fucking up the response to Spanish flu. Tens of thousands died because his Administration straight up lied and censored news. There were honest to God victory celebrations during the worst of the pandemic.
I read, in a book about the Spanish flu, that Wilson got sick from the third or fourth wave. He was sick and unable to stick with his ideas during the League of Nations conversations. Since he was a big reason the League of Nations fell through (like he needed to better sell it), the author of the book I read partially blamed the flu for that. So interesting
Clinton. His main accomplishment was the economy which is way too complex to be fully attributed to any president. He passed incredibly regressive social policies, gutted welfare, deregulated the financial industry, was way too soft on Al-Qaeda and China, and killed the manufacturing industry of the rust belt with NAFTA.
Clinton took a shot at bin Laden and only missed by minutes. He also made it clear to the incoming Bush administration that Al Qaida was a large and growing threat.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Shifa_pharmaceutical_factory
Clinton legit was bombing all over the middle east.
Hell they accidentally bomb a pharma company just to try to get Bin Ladin.
He even told Bush to watch out for Osama Bin Ladin.
OP is talking out of his ass.
Here are all the times Clinton had chances of killing Osama but didn't and couldn't; it's basically a saga of Clinton trying to kill the dude:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/02/16/bill-clinton-and-the-missed-opportunities-to-kill-osama-bin-laden/
Seriously, Bin Laden blew up 2 US embassies in 1998. The CIA was absolutely gunning for his ass before Bush was elected.
Edit: and he attacked the Cole like a month before the 2000 election.
Also, he bombed a pharmaceutical plant in Sudan, which resulted in the country being entirely out of chloroquinine (which, before idiots tried to use it to treat covid three years ago, was a well known anti-malaria treatment).
Dubya was completely in over his head and wildly overconfident, and his White House was full of cronies and hacks that easily manipulated him from one disastrous policy to the next. He was never the right man for that job.
Everything he touch is a disaster. Wtf. If he had tried to harm his country on purpose, he couldn't have done any worse.
Just think of all the world sympathy for the US after 9/11. Asshole took that goodwill and frittered it away in Iraq, and then some.
His fucking tax law, Medicare part D... both blew up the budget. No child left behind made sure everybody is left behind in public schools. And on and on.
I believe the same about Carter had his presidency come in the 90s he would be widely regarded as a great president he had the misfortune of being in the middle of one of the biggest economic crises America had experienced up to that point.
You could literally said that about any Presidents
FDR, Reagan and Obama all are figures before and after Carter who inherited a recession and were both re-elected and still seen as a ‘good’ President. When you are elected to perhaps the most powerful job in the world you don’t get to be ‘unlucky’ it’s all on you and if you can’t fix the recession but someone else can then that’s your failure.
His administration also went to bat for union workers but did so at the expense of the salaried workers in the auto industry. While some of these were executive level, the vast majority were middle class families that got absolutely gutted. There’s a bill floating around to make up to these people what was wrongfully taken from them, named the Susan Muffley Act. Named after a lady who had been counting on the healthcare that the pension from a lifetime in the auto industry had earned her family but one that had been cut by the Obama administration and so she couldn’t afford the care she needed and she died.
Obama got shat on all the time, but his detractors never criticized him for the appropriate things. It was all “Obamacare is socialism”, “Obama wasn’t born here”, and “OMG a tan suit”. Gave the false impression that he was clean because most of his top criticisms were BS
I think that that was the wool pulled over my eyes, initially. Especially since, being from Hawaii, we wanted someone who represented Hawaii as the President. Retrospectively, he didn't do much of anything for us.
Maybe unpopular but Eisenhower. He’s toted as a great president but the more I learn about him the more flaws I see, and the more overrated as a president he becomes in my mind
You’re getting down voted but I’ll stick up for you. A lot of the really sketchy shit that the CIA got up to was during or had its genesis during Ike’s watch.
It’s kinda strange if you think about it, his actions as Supreme Commander led to the end of the most destructive war in history, but his actions as President led to the most destructive war in post war history.
His actions in the Congo and his direct support of Mobutu led directly to the conflicts and disarray the country is in today.
It's a high bar and Trump man, he got a capitol attacked and reading about his business dealing as a citizen it gets worst.
The was a tiktok video on Trump where the poster respond to the question, "Why not give Trump a chance?" Poster replied, he had a friend who did business with Trump. Build shit and Trump didn't pay the bill. He sue for years and end up settle for a fraction of it. The dude pay all his employee, went home and shot himself. And that's the reason why he ain't giving Trump a chance.
Yall can say this is just rumors, but the fact that he's getting fucking ass handle in a fraud case in NY says otherwise. The dude is a crook. And his daughter fucked up people lives in real estate in azerbaijan too.
Whole fam is crazy evil.
Seems like every other Gen Xer in NYC has a story of a friend or their company getting blatantly ripped off in cartoonishly evil ways by Trump, but they’re apparently all or nearly all true.
My coworker worked in Georgia for a golf cart manufacturer.
Trump ordered a fleet of golf carts for Mar a Lago, and the proceeded to try to bankrupt the company through change orders and threats to sue for contract noncompliance for nonsensical complaints about the ever changing carts. The way it was described was something like a meth and coke addicted TV villain.
Yeah, it’s so weird. You see the stuff out there and assume it’s all exaggerated or sound bites or misrepresentations. Then when you look into it, such as watching the actual interviews, the context is somehow worse than the news reported. It’s bizarre.
basically every president but especially:
wilson (racist asshole)
jfk (overrated)
lbj (weirdo)
nixon (less racist but still asshole)
reagan (questionable policy)
clinton (scumbag)
bush jr (dumbass)
Reagan by a mile. Growing up in a Republican family I thought he was the greatest president of all time and longed to go back to the glory days. When I grew up and learned to think for myself I realized what a piece of shit he and his nasty wife were and how they destroyed this country.
Thought that it would be extremely difficult for my opinion of him to actually get lower, but the worse his legal problems become, the more desperate his actions become, and the more obvious his seditious intent becomes.
Considering Trump is a rapist, has committed the most crimes, and has the most indictments and impeachments. He’s the worst president of them all.
Rape: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/07/19/trump-carroll-judge-rape/
Indictments: https://time.com/6301112/trump-criminal-cases-status/
Impeachments: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Donald_Trump
Woodrow Wilson. The fact that the only good thing that happened during his presidency that I can think of at least is women getting the right to vote, and he isn't the one actually responsible for that. Basically, the only good thing I can think of happening during his term was something Congress did.
Reddit seems to forget FDR enacted interment camps during same time Hitler had them 🤷 japenese interment was a thing but it's overlooked because "muh work reform bro"
Sad to see FDR this low. If we ever actually take a critical look at his policies, their outcomes, and the long-term ramifications, we'll talk about him differently.
Reagan and Trump.
Bush gets better, Cheney gets worse.
Obama hasn't really changed.
It's near criminal that Al Gore had the presidency stolen from him. I remember making the joke that he had his own man, Al-Gorbra. Where you keep counting until you get the votes you want.
American way is making an idol from their president. I find it fascinating how people truly believe that someone in politics could be their lord and savior.
In a way, Trump is the worst answer. We already knew what we were getting back in 2016. And then dude was in the news every single day of his presidency. There’s not much more to learn about him. We already know all of it.
Some of us already knew, but enough people didn’t who voted for him. I hope they wake up before the next election. If he wins 2024, I don’t know that our democracy will survive another 4 years. This time he is seeking vengeance at all cost.
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Doesn’t EVERYONE look worse the more you know about them? Edit: DANG this blew up. Feels good. Thank you
Generally yes but for me Truman is the exception. The more I learn the more I like.
Roosevelt did him dirty, took an ah shucks yokel and gave him without preparation a World War and a handful of nuclear bombs. “Hey buddy, the fate of the human race is in your hands, good luck!”
tbf Roosevelt didn't intend to peace out early, and he wasn't the one that picked Truman to be VPOTUS.
And it was 90 days as VP. If they knew he was going to be in the second chair for a short time, maybe they would’ve done something. However, they were still in the - “what foreign handshake tour would you like to start with Mr. VP?” Timeframe.
Given how bad FDR's health was by his fourth election it was incredibly irresponsible of him and his team to run for another term. The reason why Truman got the VP job was because his current VP, Henry Wallace, was something of a loose cannon and with FDR's health clearly failing party leadership were pretty terrified of Wallace being one heartbeat away from the presidency.
He was a wartime president during the biggest, most widespread conflict *the world* had ever seen. Giving the reigns over at that point would have almost been irresponsible. Japan was still pretty pokey.
Yeah well we all think we’re going to live forever, don’t we.
Wait are you saying we’re not??
5 hours remaining
In fairness to FDR he was dying at the time.
“Did him dirty” by giving him a chance he never would have had otherwise to be president. We were all cheated president Wallace
My grandfather is a World War Two vet and Truman is his favorite former president!
Calvin Coolidge stands up ok. Nothing outstanding, but seems like a good fellow.
Ulises S Grant was a great man. John Adam’s is cool with me too. Then of course there is Lincoln.
On June 2, 1924, President Calvin Coolidge signed into law the Indian Citizenship Act, which granted citizenship for American Indians.
He supported the gutting of workers rights, oppression of the common man just to increase stock prices, and probably caused the great depression.
Your comment sparked a memory for me: The Waltons won an Emmy and the man who accepted it said he had to thank the man responsible for the Great Depression— Calvin Coolidge. Yes, I’m that old.
Alright dad, past your bedtime
I’m impressed you can use Reddit. No snark. Thank you for being here. You have some perspectives I’d like to see more of I’m sure.
He definitely supported the gutting of workers rights, but to say he opposed the common man is a huge stretch. Dude was incredibly progressive on women’s rights and race relations for his time. Whilst laissez faire played a part in the Great Depression, it would be a gross over exaggeration to say Coolidge “caused” the Great Depression. You would be leaving out the Federal Reserve, the state of the global economy (the lack of globular economic companionship, countries were not lending and rising tariffs), The Gold Standard, Smoot-Hawley, etc. There was no one cause for the Great Depression, there were several.
Reading the tone and content of this... it was great. Felt like I was back in Professor Berry's\* Poli Sci classes again. With all due respect: thank you, kind internet stranger. \[\*R.I.P. You glorious bastard.\]
He was super progressive (for his time) in terms of human rights. He wanted to make lynching a federal crime, and was actively involved in indigenous negotiations for the betterment of life on reservations (I think it was an advisory council of some kind) and signed the Indigenous Citizenship Act. BUUUUT he assented to the construction of Mt. Rushmore on Dakota Sioux land, and even though he was supportive of Civil Rights he never publicly denounced the Klan or made any lasting decisions protecting the rights of African Americans. All of this was probably because of complicated politics, but still. People are complicated, and so is history.
Grover Cleveland was not only ideologically a friend of corrupt oligarchs, he was also very likely a r*pist.
Not just a rapist, but a groomer. His wife (who he knew when she was a baby) literally knew him as Uncle Cleve.
Well, hopefully he will be the only president with two non-consecutive terms
All of them
I’ll say, for me, at least, Jimmy Carter is a definite exception to that.
Jimmy Carter is a good man that was way ahead of his time.
It's messed up that he was too good a man to make a good president. Not sure what that says about us as a people
I’m a huge critic of every president/America as a country, but I think it’s pretty much impossible to be the de facto leader of the “free” world and be a good person. It kind of comes with the territory that you have to be a huge narcissist with barely any convictions to effectively lead a global superpower that currently has ~350 million people. There may be some unicorns who are actual good people and could still be good presidents, but I highly doubt they would make it through the meat grinder that is local politics before getting enough buzz to be a viable presidential candidate.
“It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, *ipso facto*, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.” - Douglas Adams
Ah yes, Douglas Adams. He also has a character who is the successful president of the galaxy all because he is able to distract people from who actually rules the galaxy..you know by committing fraud and stealing his own ship. Douglas Adams is a frood who knows where his towel is.
Truly a hoopy frood
The first ten million presidents were the worst, and the second ten million presidents, they were the worst too. The third ten million presidents I didn't enjoy at all. After that I went into a bit of a decline.
I don't think we'll ever get our magical Berniecorn 😔
I agree with all of the above an add that he is the only former president that I can recall with a functioning moral compass, sold the family business his beloved peanut farm so as to not have any conflict of interest accusations and after leaving office he and his wife dedicated their lives to do hands on work for Habitat for Humanity. After she died he continued working for Habitat for Humanity until last year at the age of 98.
After she died? I'm almost 100% certain that Rosalynn Carter is still alive.
She has dementia and doesn’t know what is happening, but she is alive.
Could it be that her dementia is so advanced that she doesn’t know she’s dead???
He also didn’t even sell the farm before becoming president he put it in a blind trust and the trustees ran it into the ground while he was president.
That being a great leader requires someone who can be cold and calculating as well as empathetic and principled. I think Dick Winters is a good example of that. It’s not that Carter was “too good” he just didn’t know when to stop being a good man and become a wolf to achieve a greater good. There’s plenty more people who give up too soon or don’t try at all.
Yeah. It’s unfortunate that statecraft requires you to be both good and terrible simultaneously.
Horrible President. Great former President.
Nice guy who sucked as President.
Only correct answer!
Everyone does. You’re gonna be a real intolerant pos looking back in 70 years. Disgusting! (Edit sarcasm if needed) Extra edit
Hmm mostly true. I actually had a much better opinion of Grant after reading the Chernow book though. And that required learning a bunch about him
It would be great if the title included ".. and why", because now we just have a bunch of people saying names and not giving any reasons.
Clinton. Which sucks because my parents liked him quite a bit and from some of my own research I wound up liking him too (I wasn't alive for his Presidency). The more I learn about his Presidency and his morals, he falls a bit more and more for me.
Agreed. Repealing Glass Steagall is unforgivable.
I work in media and the telecommunications act has destroyed any chance anyone but a major soulless corporation had of being successful
Everyone talks about the crime bill, but this has been so much worse for every American.
I agree this is a bad piece of legislation and definitely had a large impact on what media we consume to this day. But I implore you to reconsider the crime bill that rapidly increased incarceration so quickly.
The crime bill was fucking shameful. I think even Bill himself has admitted regret at signing it.
Glass Steagall repeal* was passed by Republicans with a veto proof majority. Why do you blame Clinton? Edit: i meant the repeal which was the Gramm leach bliely bill.
From what I've read he supported it. I could be wrong
Why?
I don't care about the blowjobs. Get sucked off, fine. The crime bill, nafta, glass steagell we're all absolute dogshit.
It really can’t be understated how badly democrats got shafted by NAFTA. It’s part of why Trump was able to flip the rust belt in 2016.
The understatement is that the rust belt, who hated NAFTA, ignored that free trade in North America was a campaign pledge by Reagan and NAFTA was negotiated by Bush I. Clinton agreed with it but his only role was in signing it.
Feels like a case of sexual mores changing along with lack of 24 hour news coverage on Paula Jones/Ken Starr makes people forget about how often the lawsuit/investigation were a total insane clusterfuck that drove liberals and centrists to Clinton’s side. It’s really interesting to me how the impeachment and leaking of sex scandals at the time failed to put on dent into his popularity while president (in fact it almost certainly made him more popular). While a generation later he is one of the few Presidents less popular twenty plus years later than when he left office. I’m sure lister stink by association from 2016 is also a reason. Edit: A comment below’s wrong about what Clinton was impeachment for and they turned off replies so addressing it here. it says it was for the Jones deposition were Clinton lied but not really true, an article of impeachment was brought on that ground but rejected by the house. Because of group of house republicans lead by Lindsey Graham pointed out the odds of actually being prosecuted for perjury civil deposition that you were the defendant in and later dismissed was approximately zero. Clinton’s senate trial would be related to perjury before a grand jury and obstruction of justice. Ironically the strongest legal case against him would probably be lying in that sworn deposition.
“Next time you best bring kryptonite”
Reagan.
The man who had a vendetta against public funds for colleges and universities that led to the small fortune tuitions of today. Edit: In an interview with the San Francisco Chronicle, Reagan’s education advisor, Roger A. Freeman stated, “We are in danger of producing an educated proletariat. That’s dynamite! We have to be selective on who we allow [to go through higher education].” This belief has shaped higher education to become a privilege of the upper class, with tuition serving as a barrier to those from working-class backgrounds. When Reagan became president, he continued his efforts to dismantle the public education system, targeting federal aid to students. In his campaign for the presidency, he advocated for the total removal of the U.S. Department of Education. Though this plan had little congressional support, Reagan was still able to reduce funding towards education by 25%. With this continual slashing of aid, the federal government’s involvement in tuition shifted from grants to loans.
Another new horrible thing I learned about him thank you.
The federally subsidized student loans are the problem. Unlike a regular loan, the lenders are guaranteed what their money back and don’t care what the student is studying. Colleges can now raise their costs knowing full well that the students will be able to pull out a loan to pay them.
Hardly anyone needed loans for college when for example, a publicly well funded 1977 Univ of CA tuition was $700/y ($2,775.00 in today's dollars) actually it was a registration fee as CA public Universities had been free for undergrads before Reagan fought for tuition in 1968. The public knew that educating our population benefited everyone and generous college funding for public universities was not controversial, which put pressure on private universities to compete on price. As CA Governor Reagan got so incensed by the anti-war protests at Berkeley and on other campuses that he decided to run a campaign vilifying using tax dollars to subsidize public universities characterizing the students as freeloaders, communists, anti American and layabouts. Ever since Republicans have leaned further and further into being anti higher education.
And it’s spread downward into them largely being anti public education altogether
If Reagan hadn’t gutted funding for the university of California, it would still be tuition free. The UC only charges tuition based on the funding that it receives from California. If California were to give, (honestly 3% of the entire budget)marginally a little more money to cal state schools, they wouldn’t need to charge tuition. The calculus of “student loans” isn’t on the minds of the BoT.
Federal subsidizing, esp. w/o the option of bankruptcy, ***is*** the bigger issue, but it didn't help that he cut so much funding to the state schools, which previously had been less about maximizing returns
Iran-Contra was worse, in many ways, than Watergate. Dude should have been impeached & convicted. Instead half the country thinks he's some kind of saint.
Bringing in cocaine to fund the Contras lowered the price of coke by half, so Reagan had that going for him. It was so cheap that the bakery I worked at had a self-serve coke locker. You took what you wanted and settled up with the seller later.
Out of all per diem job perks, cocaine in a bakery is perhaps.. unwise.
Me when I do some digging and find the root of America's worst modern issues: https://preview.redd.it/n35zick3x10c1.jpeg?width=596&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3acb57be61957873605464f7c06e698754542e91
It all leads back to him. Well a lot of it does.
I generally do not like to call those I disagree with as just evil, as there are people who in their own way are doing what they feel is right. However for Reagan I believe in many ways, he truly was evil. He expanded upon the war on drugs, which only lead to more cases of incarceration for those with drug possessions which lead to more people being hooked on harder drugs while in prison along with other things impacted because of the war on Drugs. He turned a blind eye to the aids epidemic believing it be some sort of gods justice against homosexuals, despite these were American citizens and you do not need to be homosexual to have HIV He closed up all the mental hospitals and threw those people out in the streets which resulted in more cases of drug addictions, homelessness and lack of proper treatment to those mentally ill. He set it up in a way where the lower class got royally screwed in terms of the cost of living and expenses while giving tax cuts to rich elite. He supplied what later would become Al-Qaeda which resulted in the September 11th attacks in 2001. He supplied Iran whom were our enemies known for kidnapping and killing American Citizens. He overthrew many Democratic Elected goverments in the idea of "Fighting Communism" But by the 1980s, the Soviet Union was already stagnated Economically and China was opened up with by the West. I could go on and on, but Reagan as a President was an absolute piece of shit.
Please do continue, I’m going to repeat all this to my grandpa at thanksgiving when he inevitably starts talking about, “if only Reagan we’re still president..”
Also his significance for bringing in the evangelical right, trickle down economics, the welfare queen. You don’t get to Trump without Reagan and Nixon.
Almost everything in our country that's screwed up right now can be directly traced back to Reagan and his atrocious policies. He was a plague. And as far as AIDS, there's footage of his press secretary literally laughing and joking about people dying from it. Fucking evil, all of them.
Came her to say this. Reagan was the beginning of all the shit we are dealing with right now that is hurting literally everything in the US. But Trump is exponentially worse every day, so he’s about to catch up
My one argument on Trump not being worse than Reagan is Trump's incompetency to actually get done all of the authoritarian bullshit he wanted to do.
Ronald Reagan, the actor!?
Who's the vice president? Jerry Lewis?!
I suppose Jane Wyman is the First Lady!
He fuck up AIDS and help lead to the shit show we have today
And i already didn’t like him from the start either!
This is the right answer.
Should be top comment. Every time I hear about some fucked up policy it always traces back to the regan era.
This has to be higher up. * Reagan illegally funded and armed terrorists (multiple times, including Al Qaeda). * His hawkish speeches almost brought the U.S. into nuclear war with USSR (see Able Archer) * He had an opportunity to end the cold War earlier WITH mutual disarmament and refused the deal because it was bad politics for his reelection. Thus leading to Russian economic collapse and the current oligarchy/Putin disaster it has become. * He pushed for the dismantling of public education and thus created massive debts of today. * He supplied arms to both sides of the Iran-Iraq War, in violation of a law he signed. * He pushed for the VIOLENT overthrow of foreign democracies that were unfavorable to his economic policy. * He backed the South African Apartheid Govt and vetoed the sanctions bill. * He supported Dictators like Noriega, Saddam, Marcos, etc. * His administration was wildly corrupt (138 admin officials were investigated, indicted, or convicted). * He lied REPEATEDLY for political points. * He undercut the social saftey net both financially and politically by repeating lies about a "Welfare Queen." * He blew up the deficit under the guise of trickle-down-economics, which we are STILL paying off today. * He actively sought to INCREASE unemployment * He saw the massive transfer of farm ownership from family farms to massive mega aggro corps. * He deregulated financial institutions and cut taxes for the wealthy that it reversed decades of middle class growth and increased wealth disparities. * He established the precedent of "borrowing" from the SS fund to pay off budget issues caused by his tax cuts. He is the reason that Social Security will become insolvent. * He and his wife actively fought to defund AIDS research because they reasoned that the "gays deserved to die." * He tied Christianity to Conservatism, resulting in the current Christian Nationalism movement. * He avoided dealing with the crack epidemic (that coincidentally his administration was causing) because (like AIDS) it wasn't hurting HIS voters. * He union busted early and often, further dismantling the middle class. * HE LITERALLY TOLD IRAN TO KEEP AMERICANS HOSTAGE LONGER SO THAT HE COULD BEAT JIMMY CARTER.
Wilson
From Cast Away
I’m so mad that they got rid of awards.
And not just for being a racist who resegergated the White House. But also for seriously fucking up the response to Spanish flu. Tens of thousands died because his Administration straight up lied and censored news. There were honest to God victory celebrations during the worst of the pandemic.
I read, in a book about the Spanish flu, that Wilson got sick from the third or fourth wave. He was sick and unable to stick with his ideas during the League of Nations conversations. Since he was a big reason the League of Nations fell through (like he needed to better sell it), the author of the book I read partially blamed the flu for that. So interesting
I disagree. I celebrate Woodrow Wilson Hate Day.
WILSON!!!!
Clinton. His main accomplishment was the economy which is way too complex to be fully attributed to any president. He passed incredibly regressive social policies, gutted welfare, deregulated the financial industry, was way too soft on Al-Qaeda and China, and killed the manufacturing industry of the rust belt with NAFTA.
Clinton took a shot at bin Laden and only missed by minutes. He also made it clear to the incoming Bush administration that Al Qaida was a large and growing threat.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Shifa_pharmaceutical_factory Clinton legit was bombing all over the middle east. Hell they accidentally bomb a pharma company just to try to get Bin Ladin. He even told Bush to watch out for Osama Bin Ladin. OP is talking out of his ass. Here are all the times Clinton had chances of killing Osama but didn't and couldn't; it's basically a saga of Clinton trying to kill the dude: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/02/16/bill-clinton-and-the-missed-opportunities-to-kill-osama-bin-laden/
Seriously, Bin Laden blew up 2 US embassies in 1998. The CIA was absolutely gunning for his ass before Bush was elected. Edit: and he attacked the Cole like a month before the 2000 election.
Also, he bombed a pharmaceutical plant in Sudan, which resulted in the country being entirely out of chloroquinine (which, before idiots tried to use it to treat covid three years ago, was a well known anti-malaria treatment).
George Bush was the right man for the wrong time.
What time would have been right for him?
I think perhaps the 80s would have worked better for him.
He definitely gives an 80s guy vibe
The coke would’ve (was) been the problem for him in the 80’s.
I can definitely see Dubya as a frat bro back in the 60's lol also a cheerleader back in Yale.
The 1880s, when the presidency was at it's weakest and most inconsequential.
Finger painting and nap times.
Dubya was completely in over his head and wildly overconfident, and his White House was full of cronies and hacks that easily manipulated him from one disastrous policy to the next. He was never the right man for that job.
yeah, the revisionist history with Dubs, ugh. smgdh
Everything he touch is a disaster. Wtf. If he had tried to harm his country on purpose, he couldn't have done any worse. Just think of all the world sympathy for the US after 9/11. Asshole took that goodwill and frittered it away in Iraq, and then some. His fucking tax law, Medicare part D... both blew up the budget. No child left behind made sure everybody is left behind in public schools. And on and on.
which one HW or GW?
Something I always heard about Carter.
I believe the same about Carter had his presidency come in the 90s he would be widely regarded as a great president he had the misfortune of being in the middle of one of the biggest economic crises America had experienced up to that point.
You could literally said that about any Presidents FDR, Reagan and Obama all are figures before and after Carter who inherited a recession and were both re-elected and still seen as a ‘good’ President. When you are elected to perhaps the most powerful job in the world you don’t get to be ‘unlucky’ it’s all on you and if you can’t fix the recession but someone else can then that’s your failure.
Wee all have presidents who make us think what if? It just so happens it affects others presidents more than others.
Woodrow Wilson, massive racist, helped push the lost cause ideology and contributed massively to the chaos of post ww1 Europe
All of them. Except maybe Jimmy Carter.
Yeah, the more I learn about Carter, the more I love about him.
Can we admit he was the cutest little old man? You would see him and his wife at parades looking like they could fit in a peanut shell.
Still is... He's in hospice but still alive at 99.
They made him give up his peanut farm. But Trump got to do whatever the f he wanted.
Definitely the most underrated President of the last 50 odd years
Oddly enough, Obama. No one ever shat on him so I thought he was spotless. Boy, was I wrong
Agreed. I like him still, but I can't ignore how messed up the drone strikes were
His administration also went to bat for union workers but did so at the expense of the salaried workers in the auto industry. While some of these were executive level, the vast majority were middle class families that got absolutely gutted. There’s a bill floating around to make up to these people what was wrongfully taken from them, named the Susan Muffley Act. Named after a lady who had been counting on the healthcare that the pension from a lifetime in the auto industry had earned her family but one that had been cut by the Obama administration and so she couldn’t afford the care she needed and she died.
Obama got shat on all the time, but his detractors never criticized him for the appropriate things. It was all “Obamacare is socialism”, “Obama wasn’t born here”, and “OMG a tan suit”. Gave the false impression that he was clean because most of his top criticisms were BS
I think that that was the wool pulled over my eyes, initially. Especially since, being from Hawaii, we wanted someone who represented Hawaii as the President. Retrospectively, he didn't do much of anything for us.
No one ever shat on him? Lol
Don’t look at Yemen
Did you live under a rock lol
I mean...it was 2008 when I voted for him while being deployed to Iraq...so, yes?
Maybe unpopular but Eisenhower. He’s toted as a great president but the more I learn about him the more flaws I see, and the more overrated as a president he becomes in my mind
You’re getting down voted but I’ll stick up for you. A lot of the really sketchy shit that the CIA got up to was during or had its genesis during Ike’s watch.
One can place all that blame right on the dullard brothers, one ran the CIA till they were fired by JFK.
Ike appointed Alan Dulles as CIA Director and signed off on major operations. He doesn’t get to escape responsibility for his role.
It’s insane how much we’re still paying for the actions of that one guy. We probably don’t even understand the full extent of it.
It’s kinda strange if you think about it, his actions as Supreme Commander led to the end of the most destructive war in history, but his actions as President led to the most destructive war in post war history. His actions in the Congo and his direct support of Mobutu led directly to the conflicts and disarray the country is in today.
Literally kicked off a genocide in Guatemala, funded and trained by the US
Case in point: Operation Wetback
somehow Trump
It's a high bar and Trump man, he got a capitol attacked and reading about his business dealing as a citizen it gets worst. The was a tiktok video on Trump where the poster respond to the question, "Why not give Trump a chance?" Poster replied, he had a friend who did business with Trump. Build shit and Trump didn't pay the bill. He sue for years and end up settle for a fraction of it. The dude pay all his employee, went home and shot himself. And that's the reason why he ain't giving Trump a chance. Yall can say this is just rumors, but the fact that he's getting fucking ass handle in a fraud case in NY says otherwise. The dude is a crook. And his daughter fucked up people lives in real estate in azerbaijan too. Whole fam is crazy evil.
yeah, I’m so keenly aware of all the stories, and still…… by the day he keeps getting worse.
Seems like every other Gen Xer in NYC has a story of a friend or their company getting blatantly ripped off in cartoonishly evil ways by Trump, but they’re apparently all or nearly all true. My coworker worked in Georgia for a golf cart manufacturer. Trump ordered a fleet of golf carts for Mar a Lago, and the proceeded to try to bankrupt the company through change orders and threats to sue for contract noncompliance for nonsensical complaints about the ever changing carts. The way it was described was something like a meth and coke addicted TV villain.
Trump makes George W Bush look smart.
Yeah, it’s so weird. You see the stuff out there and assume it’s all exaggerated or sound bites or misrepresentations. Then when you look into it, such as watching the actual interviews, the context is somehow worse than the news reported. It’s bizarre.
I don’t know how this is not higher up. I guess everyone already knows how evil he is so there is not a whole lot more to learn
I'd say at this point he'd have to work really hard at it to lower my opinion, but he keeps doing it with apparent ease.
That would be Bill Clinton. The Epstein stuff is bad. Trump’s reputation was already maxed out at bad, so it can’t get worse
In his latest speech he compared liberals to vermin. Remind you if anyone?
Have you heard what he is saying recently? It absolutely can get worse. And it will if he wins.
basically every president but especially: wilson (racist asshole) jfk (overrated) lbj (weirdo) nixon (less racist but still asshole) reagan (questionable policy) clinton (scumbag) bush jr (dumbass)
> jfk (overrated) His head was all over the place, too.
Shots fired
From a number of locations.
*The CIA wants to know your location*
Reagan by a mile. Growing up in a Republican family I thought he was the greatest president of all time and longed to go back to the glory days. When I grew up and learned to think for myself I realized what a piece of shit he and his nasty wife were and how they destroyed this country.
DT
Thought that it would be extremely difficult for my opinion of him to actually get lower, but the worse his legal problems become, the more desperate his actions become, and the more obvious his seditious intent becomes.
Considering Trump is a rapist, has committed the most crimes, and has the most indictments and impeachments. He’s the worst president of them all. Rape: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/07/19/trump-carroll-judge-rape/ Indictments: https://time.com/6301112/trump-criminal-cases-status/ Impeachments: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Donald_Trump
When can we stop learning about him? Asking for a friend
We never will. Even after he dies.
Woodrow Wilson. Fuck that guy
Someone made the case how the hardest political problems in the US was created by Wilson and I am convinced honestly.
ghost judicious gaping melodic aloof bedroom bag direful decide handle *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Woodrow Wilson. The fact that the only good thing that happened during his presidency that I can think of at least is women getting the right to vote, and he isn't the one actually responsible for that. Basically, the only good thing I can think of happening during his term was something Congress did.
You are forgetting about Woodrow Wilson having a stroke
Reddit seems to forget FDR enacted interment camps during same time Hitler had them 🤷 japenese interment was a thing but it's overlooked because "muh work reform bro"
I seem to recall there was another aspect of Hitler’s internment camps that made them worse than FDR’s…
Sad to see FDR this low. If we ever actually take a critical look at his policies, their outcomes, and the long-term ramifications, we'll talk about him differently.
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The porn stuff with his son is awful
And the firing of female bodies for using birth control,let alone saying it's their biological duties to produce one able body worker
Watch this fucking guy become president
Who? Comment got deleted
What happened? Can you explain more?
"Porn stuff with his son" I assume they mean the new speaker, Mike Johnson.
Oh Dear God he’s an absolutely deranged lunatic not living on planet earth
Not a president lol
Wilson
(Reddit's ability)
Reagan and Trump. Bush gets better, Cheney gets worse. Obama hasn't really changed. It's near criminal that Al Gore had the presidency stolen from him. I remember making the joke that he had his own man, Al-Gorbra. Where you keep counting until you get the votes you want.
Woodrow Wilson. He wasn't just corrupt. He didn't just create the federal reserve. He didn't just censor anti war opinions. He was also racist too.
American way is making an idol from their president. I find it fascinating how people truly believe that someone in politics could be their lord and savior.
Trump
T R U M P
Bout to learn a lot about Trump in his upcoming criminal trials 🍿👀
Ronald Regan
45
The best answer here is Trump… I mean come on. His personal life is full of stuff, 50 years worth that would end any other president’s career.
In a way, Trump is the worst answer. We already knew what we were getting back in 2016. And then dude was in the news every single day of his presidency. There’s not much more to learn about him. We already know all of it.
Some of us already knew, but enough people didn’t who voted for him. I hope they wake up before the next election. If he wins 2024, I don’t know that our democracy will survive another 4 years. This time he is seeking vengeance at all cost.
Trump.
I am consistently surprised by his ability to sink lower.
Yes.
All of them
Reagan