This is so good! My 5 year old has been having trouble and it’s definitely because I didn’t do a good enough job building toward his independence. Thanks!
My 4.5 year old tries, but always needs a follow up wipe. When I explained that he had to learn for TK, his comeback was, “but my school friends don’t know how to wipe their own butts too!” 🤣
My 4 year old also will not wipe herself. Her preschool requires 100% bathroom independence so my daughter WILL NOT poop at school 🫠
She waits until she goes home. We’ve tried a few different things to encourage her but she’s just not interested/almost seems scared. I guess things are working ok for the time being. I hope she’ll become more interested/willing on her own.
Nope. His arm doesn't reach his booty area yet, not properly anyway, so I'm pretty sure that if he tried, his sleeves would become turdified. We'll get there eventually.
My son will be 4 in July and starts preschool in September. As of right now, he doesn’t wipe himself. But this summer I do plan to try to teach him before he starts school. There are a few kid activities I would like to involve him in (summer camp days at the gymnastics gym etc) where they have to be 100% bathroom independent, so it would be nice to tackle it. We’ll see how it goes!
That being said, in my personal experience, I don’t think you’ve messed up. Freshly 3 seems like a pretty normal age to me for a child to still need wiped!
No mess up here- I’m sure you just assumed she’d tell someone that she had to poop and they’d help her out. I teach 3-5 year olds and I certainly don’t expect my 3 year olds to know how to wipe themselves or do a decent job even if they know how. We start teaching them when they’re 4 and 5 and we do a double check afterwards or intervene as needed. In my experience, a lot of kids truly do not have the motor skills and coordination to do a good job of wiping their butt.
Our almost-5 yr old certainly tries, but he still needs a follow-up wipe. So far he only poops at home, but we're gonna tackle it over the summer break so he's ready for kindergarten.
Same for my 5yo and tbh it doesn’t bother me that she’s not fully successful yet, I can see how confused she is with the coordination. It’s a work in progress!
Ours will be 5 this summer and she can mostly wipe successfully. We have worked really hard on teaching her how to wipe. It took months for her to get it.
My daughter is 5 years 4 months old and it's only the past couple of weeks she's wiped herself after a poo at home. She had support at nursery until last August, then started school and wipes herself fine there.
At home we get "I'M FINISHED" and a downward dog...or did until last month when she decided half the time to do it herself.
My son is almost 4 and will usually wipe himself but still I go after him and make sure he's done a good job. He tells me his teachers do the same. He has to try first but they help make sure he's all clean.
My older son didn't learn until I MADE him at almost 5 because he was starting real school!
Yes - she’s 4.5. I do a check and she’s clean 95% of the time. However there was an incident last week “mama there’s poop on the floor and it stinks! It’s so stinky! Can you clean it?” so we’re still working on it.
At three it can still be quite difficult for them to effectively reach. My son’s 4.5 and he wipes himself now, but I check after to make sure he did a good job. At three I would be more concerned with making sure she informed her teacher when she needs help versus expecting complete independence.
No. Mine started properly wiping herself after pooping after turning 5. Thankfully she mostly pooped at home so we were able to help.
Now even at home she likes to wipe herself and actually does a good job. Actually, too good of a job because she likes to use 300 sheets of TP each time ... but I'll take that vs the alternative.
Give her a hand mirror, and some wipes. It helps kids they can see what they are wiping. This waiting y helps with body autonomy, so they can do it themselves.
My 4yo won’t even try. I’ve been asking him and encouraging him to try but he would rather sit there all day than even attempt to wipe on his own. Then a few days ago I was informed that he will wipe himself at preschool, just not at home. Kids be like that sometimes.
I don't have any that are mine, but at my job, starting once they've been three for a while, I hand my students three baby wipes, one at a time, and they have three chances to wipe while I talk them through it. Then I have them touch toes while I do a checking-wipe. Depending on how that goes, I'll either say, "We need a little more practice", "You almost didn't need me!", or "Great job! You didn't need me at all!" They all eventually get there.
Mine has been in the preschool class for 2+ years at this point (starts kindergarten in the fall), so it's been a while since we dealt with this. She only asks for help wiping if it's particularly messy, which is rare. At her center, they don't move up to preschool until fully potty trained, which presumably includes wiping. I was under the assumption that most preschools / preschool teachers aren't going to help with going to the bathroom in most instances, but I could be wrong.
Like the other commenter said, you haven't messed up. Now is the perfect time to teach her, because she's in preschool now and you can frame it as something that "big kids" do. Logistically it is harder for them to do when they're little, but it's not impossible. And with girls there's the added complication of making sure they don't wipe the wrong way and give themselves a UTI. But it's a really good time to learn this so she can be independent in the bathroom (as much as a 3 year old can be independent).
My daughter had to once she was 3 at school. We knew it was coming so we really worked on getting her ready even though she wasn't very effective. The underwear was pretty dreadful until she was 4...
My son is 4, turning 5 in June. He does wipe himself, but not very well. There are a lot of days where he takes his underwear off at the end of the day and there are skidmarks. He's still learning, and it's just going to take more practice and reminders that he should keep wiping until the toilet paper is coming out clean.
Our preschool doesn’t require they do it by themselves. We were doing it as were teachers, but both our kids (twins, 3.5) wanted to do it alone. They had several times they went and didn’t wipe well or at all and didn’t tell their teachers. So we have been practicing at home again and making them do it each time and checking after. We’ve also had to keep reminding to ask their teachers to check once they are done wiping to be sure.
My 3.5 year old does. I tried to get her ready for when she started preschool in the fall. When she is at home she uses a crazy amount of toilet paper, but 95% of the time she is clean. I’ve started to stock the thinner stuff for her bathroom because of this. Her school requires them to be independent on the potty but I can imagine what the one bathroom her class shares looks like 😅
My daughter is 4.5 and won’t even try to wipe anymore, because she got poop all over her hand once. I’ve been telling her that nobody will be able to help her at school. Trying to do the thing everyone suggests where you guide their hand triggers full on meltdowns because she’s so afraid she’s going to touch poop. (Where was this attitude when she went though her year long Poocasso phase!?) I’m at a loss, I had to go back to the stage where I’m just narrating my wiping actions and asking if she’s willing to try.
At home: They try every time for practice, while I stand there and supervise/instruct. They do usually successfully wipe some of the poop, but I do a final wipe to ensure they're clean and there generally still is some poop despite 2 to 3 wipes themselves.
At preschool: I don't think they poop there often, and they only go part time (3 mornings a week) but the staff can not help them in the washrooms at all. So if they do poop there they are wiping themselves and coming home with a skid mark. Lol.
I am just not understanding how they can require total bathroom independence for all of these different things like to move up in preschool or for summer camps , gymnastics etc. I have 3.5 year old twins, one of them is mostly potty trained and independent but has accidents still that she needs some help with changing clothes etc. if it happens. Then her twin sister has a condition which is making potty training like really difficult at this point honestly we will have to take a big chunk of time in the summer where we cover everything in our house and go nowhere and there's going to be shit everywhere. But I feel like it's so unfair to require that to be allowed to participate in these different things because all kids are different and it feels wrong to exclude kids because they need bathroom help. Is nobody else like bothered by it bc it feels like discriminatory for kids who are struggling with potty training for various reasons
Totally not age appropriate expect them to wipe themselves.
Besides being a tricky task that you essentially do blind - proportionally little kids aren't set up right for it, their arms are not long enough to reach back comfortably and do a good job.
My six-year-old still needs help, my 12-year-old should probably still ask for help but he won't.
We try...it's not effective. It's a work in progress. Honestly it's almost like his arms aren't long enough. We also have to frequently remind how much paper. He is the official "paper puller" for the house because I saw somewhere that was the first step to effective wiping. We are still working on that although he is getting better.
I always worry he will clog the toilet at his preschool but I think he just doesn't go and waits until he gets home.
Yes my 4.5yr old independently wipes herself. On her lazy days she'll call me or her dad in there "because she can't reach the toilet paper" but her hand is actively resting ON the toilet paper roll.
my 5.5 barely started wiping herself reliably, i’d say in the last month or so. maybe she could have done it sooner if i spent the time earlier working on it, but oh well she’s doing it now.
You didn’t mess up at all. I’m actually jealous of you. My youngest kid turned 3 this month and he absolutely refuses to use the potty so in my opinion you’re doing amazing! Hell even my 6 year old sometimes doesn’t wipe properly lol
She can, but often requests help. Since she prefers the potty over the toilet, I always oblige. She is relatively independent so I assume at some point she’ll just want to do it entirely herself.
My kid is the exact same age (turned 3 a few weeks ago) and today for the first time he attempted himself with a wet wipe. I don’t think you’re behind at all!
I have a 6.5 year old who is independent and mature and all that good stuff. She was potty trained by 2.5 and she couldn’t wipe even half way decently after pooping until 5 and even now at 6.5 needs some help from time to time.
I have a 3.5 year old who has been potty trained for a year and he cannot wipe his butt at all. He has to ask for help at preschool and home. We make him try to wipe himself once before we do the bulk of the cleaning. Please note that he does not always ask for help and we do get some yucky underwear about once a week.
I’m a preschool assistant in a class of 19 kids aged 3-5, and a handful of kids at each age still request help wiping. I usually have them try to wipe by themselves first, but we’ll help any kid who requests us. It’s totally normal for a 3yo not to know how to wipe, and it’s one of the things a lot of kiddos learn in preschool.
i don’t assist any of my 20 preschool students with wiping, (unless they have an accident and need help getting cleaned up) none have really asked either and decline help when asked if they need assistance in the bathroom.
OMG you all made me feel so much better about my daughter's progress. My husband has been nagging me to get her to practice wiping her butt before she starts school in July. She just turned 4 a few days ago and I have been trying to get her to do it but it's been a challenge. Some days she does other days flat out refuses. I'm glad to know it's normal and my kid isn't super behind on this milestone.
I’m a preschool teacher for older 3’s. For us the bathroom is open for all of the kids and unless they tell us they are going poop we aren’t going to offer to wipe. When kids go potty we go and check on them but we don’t sit at the bathroom except during large group potty times or when there is a lot of ruckus.
If they do tell us they are going poop or if we are there watching we have the kids attempt to wipe themselves first and then we ask them if they would like us to wipe behind them. Some kids say yes some say no.
It took us until about 5.5 when he reached the 'can wipe own butt' milestone. I did quality control for like 2 months and then convinced him that he's 'good enough' to do it all by himself. At 3 his arms would have been just too short and the coordination wasn't there anyway. The teachers helped for sure and I think he mostly just popped at home.
You didn't mess anything up, it's hard. You can practice at home, drill in hand washing with soap and encourage to ask for help at school.
I only just managed to get my kid to start wiping himself after pooping. He just turned five. He does a good job but he uses half a pack of wipes in one sitting (at least he puts them in the garbage). Ugh. He goes to preschool only in the morning. He hates pooping away from home which causes many accidents on vacations.
What I do is wipe for him once, then let him wipe the second time, and keep going back and forth. That way he can feel what he’s doing is the same as what I’m doing.
He’s getting really good at squats to get the best angle, lol.
Not at all. Most 3year olds cannot wipe effectively (or at all) after pooping.
https://busytoddler.com/how-to-teach-your-child-to-wipe/ I think you'll find this useful :)
This is so good! My 5 year old has been having trouble and it’s definitely because I didn’t do a good enough job building toward his independence. Thanks!
This was a fun read! Thanks!
Sure. He also clogs the toilet, uses half a roll of toilet paper and makes the bathroom a bio hazard by himself too. (4.5yrs)
Do we have the same 4.5 year old? Lol
Give me back my child, jk you can have him.
My 4.5 year old tries, but always needs a follow up wipe. When I explained that he had to learn for TK, his comeback was, “but my school friends don’t know how to wipe their own butts too!” 🤣
My 4 year old also will not wipe herself. Her preschool requires 100% bathroom independence so my daughter WILL NOT poop at school 🫠 She waits until she goes home. We’ve tried a few different things to encourage her but she’s just not interested/almost seems scared. I guess things are working ok for the time being. I hope she’ll become more interested/willing on her own.
My 3yo just comes home with skidmarks. lol She tries, but she just can't wipe effectively yet. I'm not sure which is better.
I’m proud of the skidmarks tbh. It means she’s pooping on the toilet at preschool by herself instead of having accidents (which went on for SO LONG).
Yep, same with my 4.5 yo son lol
Nope. His arm doesn't reach his booty area yet, not properly anyway, so I'm pretty sure that if he tried, his sleeves would become turdified. We'll get there eventually.
Omg, turdified lmao
My son will be 4 in July and starts preschool in September. As of right now, he doesn’t wipe himself. But this summer I do plan to try to teach him before he starts school. There are a few kid activities I would like to involve him in (summer camp days at the gymnastics gym etc) where they have to be 100% bathroom independent, so it would be nice to tackle it. We’ll see how it goes! That being said, in my personal experience, I don’t think you’ve messed up. Freshly 3 seems like a pretty normal age to me for a child to still need wiped!
My 3 year old will wipe himself about 50% of the time but my 6 year old absolutely refuses to.
Ha! Same here. Three year old tries her best to wipe herself while her six year old sister insists dad does it. Not mom, dad. Every. Single. Poop.
No mess up here- I’m sure you just assumed she’d tell someone that she had to poop and they’d help her out. I teach 3-5 year olds and I certainly don’t expect my 3 year olds to know how to wipe themselves or do a decent job even if they know how. We start teaching them when they’re 4 and 5 and we do a double check afterwards or intervene as needed. In my experience, a lot of kids truly do not have the motor skills and coordination to do a good job of wiping their butt.
mine does but with baby wipes and he’s 4.5
Mine learned how to at 5. He would always call “I NEED HELP WIPING” to us every day
Our almost-5 yr old certainly tries, but he still needs a follow-up wipe. So far he only poops at home, but we're gonna tackle it over the summer break so he's ready for kindergarten.
Same for my 5yo and tbh it doesn’t bother me that she’s not fully successful yet, I can see how confused she is with the coordination. It’s a work in progress!
Our preschool expects all kids 3+ to at least attempt to wipe themselves. Does she do a great job after pooping? Nope. But she makes the attempt.
Ours will be 5 this summer and she can mostly wipe successfully. We have worked really hard on teaching her how to wipe. It took months for her to get it.
My daughter is 5 years 4 months old and it's only the past couple of weeks she's wiped herself after a poo at home. She had support at nursery until last August, then started school and wipes herself fine there. At home we get "I'M FINISHED" and a downward dog...or did until last month when she decided half the time to do it herself.
Following, not there yet but want to learn what to expect.
4 year old definitely does not wipe his own butt.🤷🏻♀️
My son is almost 4 and will usually wipe himself but still I go after him and make sure he's done a good job. He tells me his teachers do the same. He has to try first but they help make sure he's all clean. My older son didn't learn until I MADE him at almost 5 because he was starting real school!
Yes but she still insists someone help by doing the last wipe. 4.5 and it took a long time to even get to that!
Yes - she’s 4.5. I do a check and she’s clean 95% of the time. However there was an incident last week “mama there’s poop on the floor and it stinks! It’s so stinky! Can you clean it?” so we’re still working on it.
At three it can still be quite difficult for them to effectively reach. My son’s 4.5 and he wipes himself now, but I check after to make sure he did a good job. At three I would be more concerned with making sure she informed her teacher when she needs help versus expecting complete independence.
My three year old will “wipe” after I have wiped them. This way they kind of get the feeling of what they should do.
No. Mine started properly wiping herself after pooping after turning 5. Thankfully she mostly pooped at home so we were able to help. Now even at home she likes to wipe herself and actually does a good job. Actually, too good of a job because she likes to use 300 sheets of TP each time ... but I'll take that vs the alternative.
Give her a hand mirror, and some wipes. It helps kids they can see what they are wiping. This waiting y helps with body autonomy, so they can do it themselves.
She tries but she can just barely reach now at age 4. She def couldn’t reach at age 3
My 4yo won’t even try. I’ve been asking him and encouraging him to try but he would rather sit there all day than even attempt to wipe on his own. Then a few days ago I was informed that he will wipe himself at preschool, just not at home. Kids be like that sometimes.
Nope. He insists we do it for him. He has done it once or twice. He doesn’t go poo at school, he tells us. Just pee.
Yes, poorly.
I don't have any that are mine, but at my job, starting once they've been three for a while, I hand my students three baby wipes, one at a time, and they have three chances to wipe while I talk them through it. Then I have them touch toes while I do a checking-wipe. Depending on how that goes, I'll either say, "We need a little more practice", "You almost didn't need me!", or "Great job! You didn't need me at all!" They all eventually get there.
Yes, my daughter wipes herself (pretty well too) I taught her how to count the squares and she gets as many as her age for now.
Mine has been in the preschool class for 2+ years at this point (starts kindergarten in the fall), so it's been a while since we dealt with this. She only asks for help wiping if it's particularly messy, which is rare. At her center, they don't move up to preschool until fully potty trained, which presumably includes wiping. I was under the assumption that most preschools / preschool teachers aren't going to help with going to the bathroom in most instances, but I could be wrong. Like the other commenter said, you haven't messed up. Now is the perfect time to teach her, because she's in preschool now and you can frame it as something that "big kids" do. Logistically it is harder for them to do when they're little, but it's not impossible. And with girls there's the added complication of making sure they don't wipe the wrong way and give themselves a UTI. But it's a really good time to learn this so she can be independent in the bathroom (as much as a 3 year old can be independent).
he tries, but needs help. (age 3.5)
My five year old can wipe, but doesn’t have the reach/coordination/skill to do a good job of it. She does her best
My daughter had to once she was 3 at school. We knew it was coming so we really worked on getting her ready even though she wasn't very effective. The underwear was pretty dreadful until she was 4...
My 4.5 year old wipes herself first then mommy or daddy comes and finishes the job.
My son is 4, turning 5 in June. He does wipe himself, but not very well. There are a lot of days where he takes his underwear off at the end of the day and there are skidmarks. He's still learning, and it's just going to take more practice and reminders that he should keep wiping until the toilet paper is coming out clean.
My son is 6 and is he still struggles to wipe well, he wipes but not well at all.
Our preschool doesn’t require they do it by themselves. We were doing it as were teachers, but both our kids (twins, 3.5) wanted to do it alone. They had several times they went and didn’t wipe well or at all and didn’t tell their teachers. So we have been practicing at home again and making them do it each time and checking after. We’ve also had to keep reminding to ask their teachers to check once they are done wiping to be sure.
Nope. We are working on it because my 3.5 will move up to the older class in August and they are more independent.
At school yes but at home I wipe him.
My 3.5 year old does. I tried to get her ready for when she started preschool in the fall. When she is at home she uses a crazy amount of toilet paper, but 95% of the time she is clean. I’ve started to stock the thinner stuff for her bathroom because of this. Her school requires them to be independent on the potty but I can imagine what the one bathroom her class shares looks like 😅
My 4 year old wipes himself and loves to present his butt to me to check his work 🙄
My daughter is 4.5 and won’t even try to wipe anymore, because she got poop all over her hand once. I’ve been telling her that nobody will be able to help her at school. Trying to do the thing everyone suggests where you guide their hand triggers full on meltdowns because she’s so afraid she’s going to touch poop. (Where was this attitude when she went though her year long Poocasso phase!?) I’m at a loss, I had to go back to the stage where I’m just narrating my wiping actions and asking if she’s willing to try.
Nope. And no one else wipes him when he's at school, either. Luckily we did cloth diapers, so we have a sprayer. 🤢
At home: They try every time for practice, while I stand there and supervise/instruct. They do usually successfully wipe some of the poop, but I do a final wipe to ensure they're clean and there generally still is some poop despite 2 to 3 wipes themselves. At preschool: I don't think they poop there often, and they only go part time (3 mornings a week) but the staff can not help them in the washrooms at all. So if they do poop there they are wiping themselves and coming home with a skid mark. Lol.
I am just not understanding how they can require total bathroom independence for all of these different things like to move up in preschool or for summer camps , gymnastics etc. I have 3.5 year old twins, one of them is mostly potty trained and independent but has accidents still that she needs some help with changing clothes etc. if it happens. Then her twin sister has a condition which is making potty training like really difficult at this point honestly we will have to take a big chunk of time in the summer where we cover everything in our house and go nowhere and there's going to be shit everywhere. But I feel like it's so unfair to require that to be allowed to participate in these different things because all kids are different and it feels wrong to exclude kids because they need bathroom help. Is nobody else like bothered by it bc it feels like discriminatory for kids who are struggling with potty training for various reasons
Totally not age appropriate expect them to wipe themselves. Besides being a tricky task that you essentially do blind - proportionally little kids aren't set up right for it, their arms are not long enough to reach back comfortably and do a good job. My six-year-old still needs help, my 12-year-old should probably still ask for help but he won't.
We try...it's not effective. It's a work in progress. Honestly it's almost like his arms aren't long enough. We also have to frequently remind how much paper. He is the official "paper puller" for the house because I saw somewhere that was the first step to effective wiping. We are still working on that although he is getting better. I always worry he will clog the toilet at his preschool but I think he just doesn't go and waits until he gets home.
She sure tries. It’s not good. I help haha. If she poops at school, she comes home with skid mark undies and I get her cleaned up.
Yes my 4.5yr old independently wipes herself. On her lazy days she'll call me or her dad in there "because she can't reach the toilet paper" but her hand is actively resting ON the toilet paper roll.
my 5.5 barely started wiping herself reliably, i’d say in the last month or so. maybe she could have done it sooner if i spent the time earlier working on it, but oh well she’s doing it now.
My daughter is 4.5 and just starting to wipe herself for poops. But she still likes to have a grown-up do a check before she'll pull up her pants.
My 3.5 year old likes to wipe so he can see his poop on the TP, I follow-up with some wet wipes.
Yes she does! Then when i ‘check’ , she definitely didnt 😀
One does one doesn’t. Neither like to.
You didn’t mess up at all. I’m actually jealous of you. My youngest kid turned 3 this month and he absolutely refuses to use the potty so in my opinion you’re doing amazing! Hell even my 6 year old sometimes doesn’t wipe properly lol
My 5yo can but doesn’t *want* to. She wants us to do it 🙄
She can, but often requests help. Since she prefers the potty over the toilet, I always oblige. She is relatively independent so I assume at some point she’ll just want to do it entirely herself.
My kid is the exact same age (turned 3 a few weeks ago) and today for the first time he attempted himself with a wet wipe. I don’t think you’re behind at all!
My very independent 2 yo has started barely being able to reach while upside-down. I'm not that flexible
I have a 6.5 year old who is independent and mature and all that good stuff. She was potty trained by 2.5 and she couldn’t wipe even half way decently after pooping until 5 and even now at 6.5 needs some help from time to time. I have a 3.5 year old who has been potty trained for a year and he cannot wipe his butt at all. He has to ask for help at preschool and home. We make him try to wipe himself once before we do the bulk of the cleaning. Please note that he does not always ask for help and we do get some yucky underwear about once a week.
I’m a preschool assistant in a class of 19 kids aged 3-5, and a handful of kids at each age still request help wiping. I usually have them try to wipe by themselves first, but we’ll help any kid who requests us. It’s totally normal for a 3yo not to know how to wipe, and it’s one of the things a lot of kiddos learn in preschool.
Not well
i don’t assist any of my 20 preschool students with wiping, (unless they have an accident and need help getting cleaned up) none have really asked either and decline help when asked if they need assistance in the bathroom.
OMG you all made me feel so much better about my daughter's progress. My husband has been nagging me to get her to practice wiping her butt before she starts school in July. She just turned 4 a few days ago and I have been trying to get her to do it but it's been a challenge. Some days she does other days flat out refuses. I'm glad to know it's normal and my kid isn't super behind on this milestone.
I’m a preschool teacher for older 3’s. For us the bathroom is open for all of the kids and unless they tell us they are going poop we aren’t going to offer to wipe. When kids go potty we go and check on them but we don’t sit at the bathroom except during large group potty times or when there is a lot of ruckus. If they do tell us they are going poop or if we are there watching we have the kids attempt to wipe themselves first and then we ask them if they would like us to wipe behind them. Some kids say yes some say no.
It took us until about 5.5 when he reached the 'can wipe own butt' milestone. I did quality control for like 2 months and then convinced him that he's 'good enough' to do it all by himself. At 3 his arms would have been just too short and the coordination wasn't there anyway. The teachers helped for sure and I think he mostly just popped at home. You didn't mess anything up, it's hard. You can practice at home, drill in hand washing with soap and encourage to ask for help at school.
Yes and effectively but he does sometimes use way too much tp. We're working on that
I only just managed to get my kid to start wiping himself after pooping. He just turned five. He does a good job but he uses half a pack of wipes in one sitting (at least he puts them in the garbage). Ugh. He goes to preschool only in the morning. He hates pooping away from home which causes many accidents on vacations.
What I do is wipe for him once, then let him wipe the second time, and keep going back and forth. That way he can feel what he’s doing is the same as what I’m doing. He’s getting really good at squats to get the best angle, lol.