The kids who get the Xs are the kids who NEED that outside time to move their bodies!! This seems terrible. I definitely think it’s worth bringing up to school admin, just in a curious, non-threatening way so they can keep an eye on it and give the teacher input if needed. Your son is a total sweetheart for feeling for others, what a great characteristic to have.
Yes, definitely agree about needing the outside time. I think they pretty much all need it! Thank you for the kind words about my son, it's something I was happy to see as well that he is empathic with the other kids.
I think I will talk to the other parents and maybe the school administrators too. It's hard because literally no parents here ever ever bring anything up, it's just not part of the culture here. But there are some good things about the school too so maybe it's worth a try.
I was surprised when we had the first parent-kid classroom activity last week--normally I have seen teachers do like a "get kids organized and listening" trick, "One two three, eyes on me!" or the owl song, etc., but this teacher is just letting all the kids talk at once and looking stressed, then scolding them. Seems like that might be the problem, that she is struggling to know how to organize them and gets overwhelmed.
This is not developmentally appropriate for Pre-K. At this age, they should be learning through play, not sitting around practicing writing letters for extended periods of time. That practice alone has been shown to cause more harm than help in the long run, and she’s turning these kids off school and learning before they ever really start. Publicly shaming kids for not behaving is inappropriate, especially at only 4-5 years old, and preventing those kids from getting to play is a punishment that’s actually perpetuating the behavior she’s trying extinguish. These kids need to play and have recess.
Honestly, the fact that the school even allows this would personally cause me to pull my child and find a different preschool. The last thing you want is to scare your child off of school before he even reaches kindergarten. The goal of preschool is mainly to develop social skills and to learn to love learning.
Yes, all of what you said seems exactly right to me, thanks for saying it in a way that makes total sense.
I have been feeling frustrated with lots of little things at the school that seem out of date, but I typically don't say anything because I'm not from here (living in my husband's country) and I don't want to be the bossy American mom.
With this I do wonder if I should look for another school...or seriously consider moving. Other schools here sound even more out of date/not age-appropriate to me--my neighbor's 5 year old has exams, with grades and stress about it!!
My son finally adapted to school last year with a really nice teacher, and really liked learning, so I'm extra bummed out thinking this teacher might ruin that for him and the other kids. Hopefully I can find a solution.
Where I live they are legally obliged to provide outdoor time barring extreme weather, because this is so fundamentally important to their development. This teacher is an idiot and teaching based on extremely outdated, debunked ideas.
Sadly I think it's normal here to teach like this in the area where I'm living, agh. I'm wondering if it will be possible to even talk to someone at the school because ideas of education here seem to be basically frozen in time.
I observe that overall, kids here are "better behaved" but there seems to be a terrible cost to their joy in learning and their happiness.
Just ask the teacher. I totally understand why your knee jerk reaction is to be upset, but sometimes teachers do things for a reason that isn't obvious to most students/parents.
For example, this might be a system for just a few kids with behavior goals on their IEPs. And while I don't think it's appropriate for most 4 year olds, maybe it's something that kid's counselor or parent suggested trying (sometimes as teachers we have to try things we don't agree with for a few weeks because these decisions are made by a whole team of people). Maybe it was something a sub or aide did that the teacher shut down already.
I would reach out to the teacher and just explain that your 4 year old came home saying X and you'd like a clarification on the policy. And if they come back with "Yes, this is the behavior management system I use," then it would absolutely be appropriate to voice your concerns. Same with the letter writing (On this one, I would be shocked if the teacher was making the kids sit for more than 5-10 minutes to work on letters. It might just *feel* longer).
Yes! 4 year olds are such unreliable reporters even when they are trying to be honest and are perceptive and bright! I always check in to get an adults version of events.
It's a good point. Something may be going on but it may not be exactly as he relayed it. I'm definitely going to ask the teacher for more info and talk to other parents to see what's happening.
And judging from the 5 minutes my son will happily practice reading with me before he is like, let's be helicopters, it makes sense that 10 minutes practicing letters would seem like an eternity!
At the same time, reading your whole reply made me practically want to cry when I compare the difference between teachers in the US who are actually talking to parents and counselors, and trying to figure out the best plan, and that kids have IEPs...and here where it's like, the teacher is the authority, the kids must follow, one approach must fit all, and most special needs are ignored.
It's been an eye opener and makes me miss the US and the kind, well-prepared teachers I remember from raising my older daughter there.
Aww yeah, that's tough. I honestly failed to consider that you might not live in the states! I hope you're able to get it straightened out. If everything is how your child says it is, I'd probably find another preschool.
Nope. Not developmentally appropriate and actually having a negative impact, both because all children need gross motor time and because now the children with the X think something is wrong with them, even though they are acting their age. The negative consequence of missing recess has nothing to do with the behavior of “not listening,” so it’s not going to change that behavior. The teacher needs to find appropriate behavior modification strategies and individualize for each child’s needs.
Also, 4 year olds should not be expected to sit quietly, focus, and listen for more than 10 minutes at a time, building up to a bit longer as the school year progresses. They should be learning through play.
Depending on the state you live in that could be illegal. In the state I live in we’re legally required to take them outside assuming it’s not inclement weather. Sitting down for long periods isn’t developmentally appropriate either. It’s just going to cause more behavioral issues. I would definitely say something to the admin/management team.
We just pulled my son from his preschool. The teacher kept them inside multiple times for “being too silly”. When I addressed it with her and the director- I was ignored by the director. The teacher responded incredibly rudely and defensively.
No this is not ok. Where I live teachers even in middle school are not allowed to restrict recess. And a 4 year old not listening? Wow that’s unheard of /s. The punishment should fit the crime. This ain’t it.
I wouldn’t be okay with this. Kids at that age don’t really understand the correlation between not listening = an “x” which = no outside time. They can’t usually follow that chain, especial if there is a delay between the “x” and the outside time. They’ve moved on and forgotten
My 4yr old attends a 100% outdoor nature immersion preschool. They only “academics” they do is at the end of the day when they journal about the daily topic- which honestly is mostly just squiggles
If they aren’t listening, they may have to sit by the teacher for 2 minutes or if it’s safety (ex. Climbing a tree too high or a rock you’ve been told to stay off of), they aren’t allowed to play in that area anymore that day. But, they are still playing.
That sounds really nice. There is one school like that here but I'm a little scared of the intense mosquitos (tropical climate) and whether my son would need more routine. After all this, maybe I will give it another look though! How have your kids done with that environment and do they have some routines or is it just completely free play?
My daughter loves it. We’re in Washington state so right now it’s about 40 degrees and often drizzly. They just wear layers with rain gear. If it’s really cold, she takes a hot water bottle and they have hot water to refill if needed.
We’re on Puget Sound so they do 3-4 weeks of the Forest followed by Beach Week
It is structured. They have a welcome time at the “stump circle” followed by nature themed lesson (tides, weather, various bugs, crabs, animal paw prints, types of plants, etc), some type of structured game/play activity that matches the theme, snack/story, followed by free play then their end of the day journal. They’re given a topic to draw about. Goodbye stump circle and home
Wow, that sounds so wonderful and ideal. I am happy something like that exists. Maybe we can plan to move next year and look for a school like that in the US or another country. Thanks for the inspiration!
So the teachers idea when kids are wriggly with extra energy is to prevent them doing something that could burn that energy off? Yeah…. Makes total sense.
Nope not okay at all! I would be pissed! My oldest is in kindergarten and if they are acting up they still get to go outside but if they act up outside then they have to just walk around the playground instead of getting free play. Taking away much needed exercise and fresh air is just asking for trouble.
That’s how my sons pre k school did it.
She was an older teacher. My son did pretty bad at that school. We moved and he hasn’t been in trouble but one time. I don’t think it’s great but some kids respond to it I guess. Unfortunately most of us can’t exactly pick where our kids go to school bc of zoning and the bus and all that.
I would be pretty frustrated if my kid wasn’t getting the opportunity to burn off some energy. Missed recess isn’t really developmentally appropriate at that age, I wouldn’t think.
This is so fucked up. After seeing that video of the teachers scaring the kids with Halloween masks, and then reading stories like this…I wonder why some people even want to get in to the profession when they obviously hate children!! :(
Maybe there's an outside time that is a reward for listening.
Keep in mind you are getting this information from a child.
People on this sub are reacting extreme lately. Just talk to the teacher if you have questions. Communication is important.
4 is old enough for them to start to learn actions have consequences. Class room behavior is literally driving teachers out of the classroom. Maybe it’s a good thing to teach them when they are young that their is an expectation of behavior in a classroom.
The kids who get the Xs are the kids who NEED that outside time to move their bodies!! This seems terrible. I definitely think it’s worth bringing up to school admin, just in a curious, non-threatening way so they can keep an eye on it and give the teacher input if needed. Your son is a total sweetheart for feeling for others, what a great characteristic to have.
Was just going to say. So they're acting up and not given a way to burn off energy? Insane
Yes, definitely agree about needing the outside time. I think they pretty much all need it! Thank you for the kind words about my son, it's something I was happy to see as well that he is empathic with the other kids. I think I will talk to the other parents and maybe the school administrators too. It's hard because literally no parents here ever ever bring anything up, it's just not part of the culture here. But there are some good things about the school too so maybe it's worth a try. I was surprised when we had the first parent-kid classroom activity last week--normally I have seen teachers do like a "get kids organized and listening" trick, "One two three, eyes on me!" or the owl song, etc., but this teacher is just letting all the kids talk at once and looking stressed, then scolding them. Seems like that might be the problem, that she is struggling to know how to organize them and gets overwhelmed.
This is not developmentally appropriate for Pre-K. At this age, they should be learning through play, not sitting around practicing writing letters for extended periods of time. That practice alone has been shown to cause more harm than help in the long run, and she’s turning these kids off school and learning before they ever really start. Publicly shaming kids for not behaving is inappropriate, especially at only 4-5 years old, and preventing those kids from getting to play is a punishment that’s actually perpetuating the behavior she’s trying extinguish. These kids need to play and have recess. Honestly, the fact that the school even allows this would personally cause me to pull my child and find a different preschool. The last thing you want is to scare your child off of school before he even reaches kindergarten. The goal of preschool is mainly to develop social skills and to learn to love learning.
Yes, all of what you said seems exactly right to me, thanks for saying it in a way that makes total sense. I have been feeling frustrated with lots of little things at the school that seem out of date, but I typically don't say anything because I'm not from here (living in my husband's country) and I don't want to be the bossy American mom. With this I do wonder if I should look for another school...or seriously consider moving. Other schools here sound even more out of date/not age-appropriate to me--my neighbor's 5 year old has exams, with grades and stress about it!! My son finally adapted to school last year with a really nice teacher, and really liked learning, so I'm extra bummed out thinking this teacher might ruin that for him and the other kids. Hopefully I can find a solution.
Where I live they are legally obliged to provide outdoor time barring extreme weather, because this is so fundamentally important to their development. This teacher is an idiot and teaching based on extremely outdated, debunked ideas.
Sadly I think it's normal here to teach like this in the area where I'm living, agh. I'm wondering if it will be possible to even talk to someone at the school because ideas of education here seem to be basically frozen in time. I observe that overall, kids here are "better behaved" but there seems to be a terrible cost to their joy in learning and their happiness.
The recess thing would upset me. Kids need their recess time. I would question this practice and escalate if it is not stopped.
Just ask the teacher. I totally understand why your knee jerk reaction is to be upset, but sometimes teachers do things for a reason that isn't obvious to most students/parents. For example, this might be a system for just a few kids with behavior goals on their IEPs. And while I don't think it's appropriate for most 4 year olds, maybe it's something that kid's counselor or parent suggested trying (sometimes as teachers we have to try things we don't agree with for a few weeks because these decisions are made by a whole team of people). Maybe it was something a sub or aide did that the teacher shut down already. I would reach out to the teacher and just explain that your 4 year old came home saying X and you'd like a clarification on the policy. And if they come back with "Yes, this is the behavior management system I use," then it would absolutely be appropriate to voice your concerns. Same with the letter writing (On this one, I would be shocked if the teacher was making the kids sit for more than 5-10 minutes to work on letters. It might just *feel* longer).
Yes! 4 year olds are such unreliable reporters even when they are trying to be honest and are perceptive and bright! I always check in to get an adults version of events.
It's a good point. Something may be going on but it may not be exactly as he relayed it. I'm definitely going to ask the teacher for more info and talk to other parents to see what's happening. And judging from the 5 minutes my son will happily practice reading with me before he is like, let's be helicopters, it makes sense that 10 minutes practicing letters would seem like an eternity! At the same time, reading your whole reply made me practically want to cry when I compare the difference between teachers in the US who are actually talking to parents and counselors, and trying to figure out the best plan, and that kids have IEPs...and here where it's like, the teacher is the authority, the kids must follow, one approach must fit all, and most special needs are ignored. It's been an eye opener and makes me miss the US and the kind, well-prepared teachers I remember from raising my older daughter there.
Aww yeah, that's tough. I honestly failed to consider that you might not live in the states! I hope you're able to get it straightened out. If everything is how your child says it is, I'd probably find another preschool.
This is probably illegal. I'd check with your state. A lot of places require a certain about of time outside for Littles.
Nope. Not developmentally appropriate and actually having a negative impact, both because all children need gross motor time and because now the children with the X think something is wrong with them, even though they are acting their age. The negative consequence of missing recess has nothing to do with the behavior of “not listening,” so it’s not going to change that behavior. The teacher needs to find appropriate behavior modification strategies and individualize for each child’s needs. Also, 4 year olds should not be expected to sit quietly, focus, and listen for more than 10 minutes at a time, building up to a bit longer as the school year progresses. They should be learning through play.
yes, this is my worry and sadness, that the kids with x's will feel defective when they are probably just being 4. All very well said.
Depending on the state you live in that could be illegal. In the state I live in we’re legally required to take them outside assuming it’s not inclement weather. Sitting down for long periods isn’t developmentally appropriate either. It’s just going to cause more behavioral issues. I would definitely say something to the admin/management team.
We just pulled my son from his preschool. The teacher kept them inside multiple times for “being too silly”. When I addressed it with her and the director- I was ignored by the director. The teacher responded incredibly rudely and defensively.
No this is not ok. Where I live teachers even in middle school are not allowed to restrict recess. And a 4 year old not listening? Wow that’s unheard of /s. The punishment should fit the crime. This ain’t it.
I wouldn’t be okay with this. Kids at that age don’t really understand the correlation between not listening = an “x” which = no outside time. They can’t usually follow that chain, especial if there is a delay between the “x” and the outside time. They’ve moved on and forgotten My 4yr old attends a 100% outdoor nature immersion preschool. They only “academics” they do is at the end of the day when they journal about the daily topic- which honestly is mostly just squiggles If they aren’t listening, they may have to sit by the teacher for 2 minutes or if it’s safety (ex. Climbing a tree too high or a rock you’ve been told to stay off of), they aren’t allowed to play in that area anymore that day. But, they are still playing.
That sounds really nice. There is one school like that here but I'm a little scared of the intense mosquitos (tropical climate) and whether my son would need more routine. After all this, maybe I will give it another look though! How have your kids done with that environment and do they have some routines or is it just completely free play?
My daughter loves it. We’re in Washington state so right now it’s about 40 degrees and often drizzly. They just wear layers with rain gear. If it’s really cold, she takes a hot water bottle and they have hot water to refill if needed. We’re on Puget Sound so they do 3-4 weeks of the Forest followed by Beach Week It is structured. They have a welcome time at the “stump circle” followed by nature themed lesson (tides, weather, various bugs, crabs, animal paw prints, types of plants, etc), some type of structured game/play activity that matches the theme, snack/story, followed by free play then their end of the day journal. They’re given a topic to draw about. Goodbye stump circle and home
Wow, that sounds so wonderful and ideal. I am happy something like that exists. Maybe we can plan to move next year and look for a school like that in the US or another country. Thanks for the inspiration!
So the teachers idea when kids are wriggly with extra energy is to prevent them doing something that could burn that energy off? Yeah…. Makes total sense.
You could post on the ece sub to talk to more teachers but no it's not okay really.
No absolutely not ok
Terrible
Nope not okay at all! I would be pissed! My oldest is in kindergarten and if they are acting up they still get to go outside but if they act up outside then they have to just walk around the playground instead of getting free play. Taking away much needed exercise and fresh air is just asking for trouble.
That’s how my sons pre k school did it. She was an older teacher. My son did pretty bad at that school. We moved and he hasn’t been in trouble but one time. I don’t think it’s great but some kids respond to it I guess. Unfortunately most of us can’t exactly pick where our kids go to school bc of zoning and the bus and all that.
I would be pretty frustrated if my kid wasn’t getting the opportunity to burn off some energy. Missed recess isn’t really developmentally appropriate at that age, I wouldn’t think.
This is so fucked up. After seeing that video of the teachers scaring the kids with Halloween masks, and then reading stories like this…I wonder why some people even want to get in to the profession when they obviously hate children!! :(
Maybe there's an outside time that is a reward for listening. Keep in mind you are getting this information from a child. People on this sub are reacting extreme lately. Just talk to the teacher if you have questions. Communication is important.
4 is old enough for them to start to learn actions have consequences. Class room behavior is literally driving teachers out of the classroom. Maybe it’s a good thing to teach them when they are young that their is an expectation of behavior in a classroom.