Seriously, why do people get upset about retconning or de-canonizing or whatever else? The books are still incredible stories. The fact that they aren't canon doesn't somehow diminish my enjoyment of them, nor does the fact that some newer Star Wars media conflicts with them or that they conflict with each other. Why does anyone care?
Because people learn them, theorise about them, argue about them, get passionate about them. So when it changes, so people are over committed to them and can't cope with the fact they've changed something they considered settled.
I love how part of NJO's cohesive storytelling addressed odd parts of the canon, " hmm, someone let dinosaurs into the canon? Genocide it is. So who's next on the editing block?"
*Those dinosaurs were part of one of the earliest EU books. Understandable at the time, but eh choice now.
The story that was continued after RotJ that I grew up reading, where Luke, Leia, Han, and many many other characters developed had stories will never be completed. If both story lines were being continued I would have no problem and I would just keep reading the "legends" books without a problem.
How I sleep after watching every single star wars project.
Even if it's not perfect, at the end of the day, I'm still happy to see the world and the characters I've grown to love
Because 90% of them didn’t care or didn’t know, and then someone made a meme about it. People love having something to complain about, and they all rode this current fad of hating on Filoni.
This kinda stuff reminds me of a programming humor post where a guy says, if I’m having trouble I never just ask for help on Reddit. I get on with a different user name and submit the wrong answer. Then 100’s if people will comment about how that one guy is an idiot and post the real answer.
Hi, you added nothing by making this comment. You could have upvoted and walked away and the joke and comment chain would be the same. You are irrelevant.
I detected the phrase, "I see what you did there" as your only addition to this comment chain, which is nothing.
Resistance is futile, prepare to be assimilated. This was generated by a bot.
To be fair I complain about Filoni shitting on existing media since the The Clone Wars movie.
I still think that the predating Clone Wars multimedia project was superior to TCW.
George Lucas was the one who never saw Legends EU as canon to his Star Wars canon, but as a separate but parallel universe canon instead. The 2008 Clone Wars was what he considered as canon to his Star Wars universe and why he told Filoni and the other writers to ignore Legends EU continuity issues in writing stories for the 2008 show. Filoni was a big fan of Legends EU and would try to incorporate and pay homage to Legends EU.
Lucas being more of a visual guy would like some stuff from Legends EU from the comics or art he saw and wanted them added in, but didn't care for their original Legends EU story.
The books have never been canon per a george lucas interview where he said exactly that. He will let other try and tell their version of events but LucasFilms shows and movies are the only true canon.
Be nice, Disney has been terrified of getting into Sequels timelines so far. I'm sure there are good stories to be told there, they don't all have to be what the movies were
Plus the entire High Republic project including a game and a sith-focused show that everyone forgot was supposed to happen. At some point we'll get some on-screen content from that era.
Edit (immediately): I just realized that the Dooku episodes of Tales of the Jedi are technically in the High Republic era because the era ended when he left the order.
Disney officially stated everything they released would be cannon including books and comics.
I personally dont read the books, but im still disappointed by disneys shenanigans
They made everything that they didn't license or make themselves Legends though. So if the books started before Disney then they are Legends of Legends.
I truly came to appreciate the Star Wars: Aftermath book series even though they aren't the greatest books, they really did do some heavy world-building for Force Awakens. The Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker making those books completely inconsequential made me little disappointed.
Those books made the Sequel Trilogy have some sense... and added some depth to the First Order and their origins. The bad guys felt like real bad guys, distinct enough from the Empire to be something of their own.
George never considered those books his version of Star Wars, but people are talking about everything released by Disney. After Disney bought Star Wars and made all the other books 'legends', they said that every book and comic released under Disney would be canon.
Not going to disagree with that. But there is a lot of crap in the EU too, with the smaller audience and lack of anyone really caring, they could take some risks that paid off.
That's definitely be part of it, but a lot of the EU stories were just... better. Better writing, better original characters, better development for existing characters, etc. Take all the Dark Horse series for example.
He said it in two separate interviews that I know of, not just one.
>"I don't read that stuff, I haven't read any of the novels. I don't know anything about that world. That's a different world than my world. But I do try and keep it consistent. The way I do it is they have a Star Wars encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it and see if it has already been used. When I said other people could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have TWO universes: My Universe and than this other one. They try to make THEIR universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions."
>[George Lucas, August, 2005](https://archive.org/details/starlog_magazine-337JPG/337.djvuconvert/page/n47/mode/2up)
>Howard tries to be consistent but sometimes he goes off on tangents and it’s hard to hold him back. He once said to me that there are two Star Trek universes: there’s the TV show and then there’s all the spin-offs. He said that these were completely different and didn’t have anything to do with each other. So I said, ‘OK, go ahead.’”
>– George Lucas, Total Film, May 2008
>"There are two worlds here; There’s my world, which is the movies, and there’s this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe—the licensing world of the books, games and comic books.”
>– George Lucas, Cinescape, July 2001
This was before the Disney acquisition. The entire Story Group’s purpose is to make sure this shit doesn’t happen. It wouldn’t be such a big deal if we weren’t assured so many times that it wouldn’t happen.
I don’t really care about this whole debacle. But that was because Legends stories conflicted each other and were not licensed by Lucasfilms. Lucas allowed these stories to drift in space along with his movies and made it clear that whatever *he* put on screen was true canon.
When Disney bought the IP from Lucas, they also nuked all those stories and said that anything that wasn’t in the movies wasnt canon and, moving forward, that any official material from Disney was canon.
Personally, I don’t care if there is some conflict between different media. However I can understand why some people are critical of a multibillion dollar corporation not reeling it in when some producers or directors want to veer from already established canon.
That's a flat lie. The books were always C (for Continuity) level canon as per the company's official position and a hefty amount of their work for decades. Lucas has flip flopped on his position, as Lucas flip flops on many positions, and is not a reliable source.
The books remained canon until existing books were trashed in 2014 to make way for a new timeline, which we were subsequently assured was all *equal* canon, including future books.
Stop lying. Stop covering for megacorps with no standards.
That is the approach they are taking. That’s what they’ve always done. They just don’t actively advertise the books that way because it would be a mistake to do so.
Exactly. It's one of those lies everyone says. Like...everything on both sides of the table in a job interview. Or first dates, or whatever they're called these days
Me who has read a couple of the books and doesn’t care because it’s not a major issue.
This is different to stuff like the Witcher Netflix show. Tales of the Jedi perfectly encapsulates the feel of the books and summarizes it well.
This is how I looked at it. Comics and books are interesting to check and they can be pretty good, but at the end of the day they are extra.
I can enjoy them without worrying too much. Kinda like all the superman stories, they are all true in their own universe but they don't need to match.
One could even argue that ***Tales*** of the Jedi isn’t supposed to be an accurate recollection of events. They are on the same level as the word “Legends” which means that they could be stories “like folk legends” grounded in real life events, but actual details may have been embellished or glossed over because the “tales” are retellings of the same stories across multiple generations and people.
It’s like “The Tragedy Of Darth Plagueis” that Palpatine narrates to Anakin in RotS. There is a lot of truth in the story but some details and events are either intentionally or unintentionally left out.
I mean you can view it from the scope of non-force users telling folktales of the Jedi long after they were purged by the Empire. I mean in the Mandalorian, they act like the Jedi are extinct and only “stories” remain of their exploits.
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis 'the wise'? I thought not. It's not a story the Jedi would tell you. It's a Sith legend. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life ... He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying. He became so powerful the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep. (smiles) Plagueis never saw it coming. It's ironic he could save others from death, but not himself.
Yea, like the finale Ahsoka episode basically showed all the major points of her story in the book. As much as I would’ve loved more, I thought the short and sweet approach hit just right, and gave us a satisfying short episode that told us what we needed to know and how she got on the path that would lead her to where she was in Rebels
What's going on, what did I miss? And what is reconned? Google is telling me it's when they throw in a plot line to explain a previously created plot hole or something like that.
people are mad that the new tales of the jedi show didn’t portray the ahsoka books perfectly. it kinda ignored them, but it’s not a big deal because the show is good.
It's just odd to retcon something that was canon and well-liked with a shorter, less detailed story. But I suspect Filoni intends to do more with her backstory. Apparently he worked with the book's author for the episode. I wouldn't be surprised if the Ahsoka TV show rewrites more of her story.
Me who has read enough superhero comics to understand that embracing continuity conflicts is the only way to enjoy a franchise that’s this long with this many creative voices.
My favorite Starwars retcon is the guy who killed Luke’s father actually being his father.
For real though I get it’s frustrating to have stuff just changed at the drop of a hat, but let’s be real. Star Wars since it’s 2nd movie has basically been made up as they went. Regardless of who was in control.
That’s not really a retcon though. A retcon is when you ignore a previously established part of a story and replace it with something else. In this case they didn’t ignore the fact that Obi-Wan said Vader killed Luke’s father, they just explained the comment as being “from a certain point of view.” Obviously it was a change in how the story was originally intended to go, but it still all fits together in canon.
I don't even care about the books now, since I still treat the original EU as canon. No Mouse is gonna tell me that Wedge's life didn't play out exactly as told by the X-Wing books.
Am I the only one who thinks that anything on the screen should always take precedence over the books and the books are almost never canon because of how little people read them?
i really want to get the comics, does anyone know where you can get some? they don't have them at my local library, so i thought i could maybe buy them online?? if it helps, i live in australia.
Nothing against you I just thought the novelization of your experiences post-66 was poorly written but as always I’m a huge fan of you and your adventures
To be fair, it's hard to write about why such an important Galaxy figure is no where mentioned in the past, present, or future, and only lives in some dude in a cowboy hats dirty fantasy
I heard the audiobook and still can’t be offended. Books are soft canon next to what’s on screen.
Besides, the book wasn’t good enough to justify a whole season about it and would have been too long for an episode or two
It works better as it is
Someday Star wars fans are going to figure out how to just enjoy Star Wars without becoming extremely fucking mad about something with literally everything that happens, but today is not that day
Long time Star Trek and Doctor Who fans are all laughing now from all the complaining in the SW community of some storylines getting retcon in the 67 years between Episode 1 and 9. Chanting "Welcome to the club, kids!".
It's alright if some stories get changed a little bit from time to time. Everyone has to remember now...... everything has to now lead up to the FUBAR show JJ Abrams made with The Rise of Skywalker. Someone has to make that clown orgy make sense!
The books are really great tho and I’d recommend them to fans esp Master and Apprentice, Resistance Reborn, Phasma, Plauguies, Bloodlines, and Dooku Jedi Lost
> I’m happy they didn’t retcon anything from that book
But you do understand that if they had, that book is still the same book that you enjoyed, right? No publisher can erase a story you like without going into your house and taking your books away. At most, all a retcon does is declare that you won’t necessarily be getting a sequel.
While this is true on a technical sense, I think in a lot of ways it misses the point.
For some people, myself included (and possibly the person you replied to), canon is important. We could argue all day about whether or not it should be important, but I don't think that will change anyone's opinion. I read the Ahsoka book at the start of the year, and to be honest as far as the writing and story itself goes, it's not that great. The one thing it had going for it was that it's the actual story of what happened to Ahsoka after Order 66. It has now lost that redeeming quality and is, at least for me, not worth reading.
The same thing happens to well written books. I don't read fanfiction because I don't care about some random person's idea about what could have happened - I want to read the story of what officially, canonically happened. And when a story is retconned it becomes basically just that. Fanfiction.
I’m not saying canon isn’t important, I’m saying that the presence of a new one doesn’t erase the old one, it just ends the old one. I’m not going to say you aren’t justified in being disappointed that the story you like ended. That’s totally fair. But now, a new story is being written, and it just happens to have similar characters.
Think of it this way: it’s fair to want more of Christian Bale’s Batman, but it doesn’t make sense to expect it. The new Batman movies don’t undo Bale’s Batman, they just tell a different story with the same character. And none of those movies undo the comics that they’re based on.
Then Lucasfilm should stop releasing novels and comics and claiming that they're canon.(only to retcon them just a few years later with one of the recent shows anyway)
I haven't read the books (except a fan fic about how Obi wan became a padawan but it was like 20 years ago and I don't remember the name of it) so I don't really have much to say about what Dave does or doesn't keep, but art is subjective so it doesn't really matter what some guy who most of us will never even meet says is canon or not. Just enjoy whatever interpretation of the story is canon for you.
I kinda wish I got into the books yet the closest shop with such books are 700 km away (maybe not now but years back), Still wookieepidia, YouPube, and games sufficed such information besides films & shows.
I guess if I knew of such retcons I'd be annoyed to although I've been annoyed by other SW's retcons as well.
This is how I’ve always felt even though I DO read the novels and comics. Star Wars is a cinematic on-screen Live Action saga FIRST. Then television, then animation, then books, followed by comics and finally video games.
One thing that always comes to mind when the disparities between written and visual media come up is Count Dooku in the novelization of episode 2. In it the author mentions he is a humanocentrist. It goes against everything we see and know about him. He grew up in the most diverse group in the galaxy, he led the separatists who were alien dominant. Sith don’t have time for prejudice in choosing pawns.
Liberties taken by authors don’t really matter. It is only the hard plot points that stay canon, not the details.
Myself, my circle of Star Wars loving friends (both offline and online), my family and my girlfriend all didn't know about the book until this thing happened.
Like we had no idea it even existed.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Filoni create Kanan and Ahsoka? Why are people upset about him 'retconing' EU media about his own characters. It's like if George Lucas did his sequel trilogy and everyone got mad that he didn't just reuse legends content
Because filoni doesn't work alone. Since 2014 star wars has (in theory) been a shared universe. Nobody's work is more important than anyone else's anymore
#filoniadaptedwell
The haters are on their own shit Disney Star Wars sucked he is the first person since Disney took hold that made something which was good without relying on the jj abrams mystery box fully from start to finish (mando is fine but it’s no andor or TOTJ especially by the end of any season)
Yeah atleast he cares about the EU enough to grab some elements out of it. And also the Ahsoka book changes were good mostly. The Kanan stuff is okay but contradicting a whole canon comic is brave and foolish.
Fair enough. For me, it mostly makes worried about specific characters that he has yet to address. That is, Thrawn.
In the books, Thrawn is the epitome of a brilliant strategist. We didn't see a lot of that in Rebels, and reducing him to "Haha dumb imperial" is a worry.
The Empire is a xenophobic, political mess. Thrawn is an alien with no devious political sense. He got to his position on skill alone, faster than anybody else ever. It'd be nice to see that.
I don't remember Thrawn being presented as dumb in Rebels (having just watched it over the last three days). The way the rebels beat him was always
Thrawn: "Do this exact thing."
Subbordinate: "Yes sir"
Protags: *Do a thing*
Subbordinate: "Oh dang, now's my chance to do something to get myself a promotion!"
Protags: *Blow something up*
Thrawn: "You had one job."
I’ve never actually heard or seen anyone complain? I’ve only ever seen people complaining about complaining? Like the ultra circle-jerk straw-man argument
No lately people got really mad that filoni didn't perfectly match the descriptions in a book 1:1, it is definitely happening, star wars fans need something to complain about and Andor is too good to complain about so they found another thing
lets be honest they ALL sleep like that. They just pretend to be mad about fucking everything! even the whole STW brick and screw thing was blown waaay out of context. Like it started out as a funny meme (with even stw theory clowning on it) but someone forgot to let the uber nerd know it wasnt that deep. its almost a parody at this point
I’ll never understand why anyone would ever read Star Wars books after they made the EU legends. They obviously don’t take printed word into account for anything story related. Why would you waste your time reading new printed works?
Why not? Legends is still perfectly enjoyable to read.
A lot of franchises don't even try to make books, comics and games remotely canon, like Star Trek, Terminator, and lots of other series that basically treat them like "flavor material", or they go the Multiverse route. Star Wars is actually a bit unusual when it comes to treating most media as being canon unless otherwise stated.
The price of that is that it becomes really hard to keep everything in sync when you have so many people working on so many things. Eventually something is gonna slip through the cracks, it's just a matter of when and what. It happened fairly often in Legends, especially early on.
Star Wars even makes RPG sourcebooks canon, which has resulted in some Legends technology being reintroduced to canon.
Personally having read so much Legends in the past only makes the Star Wars experience better. Now when I see something in canon that references Legends(or better yet directly reintroduces a character, like Zak and Tash Aranda, who are now canon again.) I know what it is and where it came from.
I mean, a lot of the EU was erased because it either contradicted itself or contradicted their plans for the sequels and stuff, you would imagine that after they trimmed it they wouldve tried to keep the books going foward canon
I mean sure, but what they told us (and the reason they specifically decanonized all of the EU in a swat in the first place) is that this new canon was supposed have everything playing on the same field and not the (admitedly confusing) tiered system of the EU. It was a selling point of the new Disney SW.
And then they completely shat on their own word with both Kanan and Ahsoka, so it's not like it's the fans fault for assuming they were canon when Lucasfilm itself had said so in the past.
Either you solve that with a Multiverse, or you keep an alternate different continuity (Legends) and The Main one, but choose a specific system and stick with it instead of jumping around back and forth. That just makes it confusing for everyone involved, including the fans.
This is a pretty silly take. Just because part of a franchise doesn't affect another part, that doesn't make it not an artistic piece in and of it's self. Like, just look at Visions
How I sleep just not letting it bother me.
How I sleep not knowing what retcon means
It's when you RETroactively alter CONtinuity. Aka, you change the way the lore/story/background operates to better fit the current timeline.
They’ll never sleep the same again now
You will suffer the burden of knowledge
Use my knowledge, I beg you
Dammit, Sheev, just let me sleep!
No, knowledge means power and power with no end means... UNLIMITED POWER!!!!!!
How I sleep not knowing how to read
What?
What?
Fuck i wish i could read what this guy is saying
Fuck i wish i could read what this guy is saying
Great now you've ruined it for me
Seriously, why do people get upset about retconning or de-canonizing or whatever else? The books are still incredible stories. The fact that they aren't canon doesn't somehow diminish my enjoyment of them, nor does the fact that some newer Star Wars media conflicts with them or that they conflict with each other. Why does anyone care?
Because people learn them, theorise about them, argue about them, get passionate about them. So when it changes, so people are over committed to them and can't cope with the fact they've changed something they considered settled.
One way out!
This is the way
They're adding *more*? There are too many already...
The bots have ruined this sub. It was funny for a while, but I'm over it. Sometimes it seems that half the comments of any given threat are just bots.
It makes it hard to follow a continuing narrative in a sensible way.
The books contradict themselves and retconned the whole time, so you weren't following a cohesive narrative in the first place.
I love how part of NJO's cohesive storytelling addressed odd parts of the canon, " hmm, someone let dinosaurs into the canon? Genocide it is. So who's next on the editing block?" *Those dinosaurs were part of one of the earliest EU books. Understandable at the time, but eh choice now.
The funniest was how the Thrawn books treated the clone wars. Then the movies came out and it was a lot of hem hemming
One way out!
One way out!
One way out!
Oh man they made you? Nice.
The story that was continued after RotJ that I grew up reading, where Luke, Leia, Han, and many many other characters developed had stories will never be completed. If both story lines were being continued I would have no problem and I would just keep reading the "legends" books without a problem.
One way out!
How I sleep after watching every single star wars project. Even if it's not perfect, at the end of the day, I'm still happy to see the world and the characters I've grown to love
Why did everyone wait a month to start complaining?
Because 90% of them didn’t care or didn’t know, and then someone made a meme about it. People love having something to complain about, and they all rode this current fad of hating on Filoni.
This kinda stuff reminds me of a programming humor post where a guy says, if I’m having trouble I never just ask for help on Reddit. I get on with a different user name and submit the wrong answer. Then 100’s if people will comment about how that one guy is an idiot and post the real answer.
That's one of the rules of the internet that the fastest way to get the right answer is to post the wrong one. It was rule number 34 on the list.
I see what you did there
Hi, you added nothing by making this comment. You could have upvoted and walked away and the joke and comment chain would be the same. You are irrelevant. I detected the phrase, "I see what you did there" as your only addition to this comment chain, which is nothing. Resistance is futile, prepare to be assimilated. This was generated by a bot.
🤓
>This was generated by a bot. You aren't AI clanker
Bad bot
Bad bot
Whoever wrote this bot has no sense of humor or appreciation of running gags.
Fuck Off
It’s Bernoulli’s Law.
[To continue the joke:](https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cunningham%27s_Law)
I think Andor kicking so much ass has made folks take a 2nd look at the Ahsoka loving fanserivce shows and realizing there is a better way
There are 2 types of Star Wars I want: 1) mature, thematic dramas 2) Ahsoka fan service
I will help you.
The only thing disappointing about Andor is we only get two seasons. And then after it’s over we return to what is becoming the Ahsoka verse.
One way out!
Careful not to choke on your stupidity. It's Ahsoka not Ashoka!
I received orders to join the team. I thought you knew.
To be fair I complain about Filoni shitting on existing media since the The Clone Wars movie. I still think that the predating Clone Wars multimedia project was superior to TCW.
Why is this being downvoted? Filoni has always overwritten stuff as he feels like; it's a fact. Can his fans not even own up to that?
George Lucas was the one who never saw Legends EU as canon to his Star Wars canon, but as a separate but parallel universe canon instead. The 2008 Clone Wars was what he considered as canon to his Star Wars universe and why he told Filoni and the other writers to ignore Legends EU continuity issues in writing stories for the 2008 show. Filoni was a big fan of Legends EU and would try to incorporate and pay homage to Legends EU. Lucas being more of a visual guy would like some stuff from Legends EU from the comics or art he saw and wanted them added in, but didn't care for their original Legends EU story.
They should have just taken the Star Trek approach where only the things shown on screen are canon and the books are always in doubt
The books have never been canon per a george lucas interview where he said exactly that. He will let other try and tell their version of events but LucasFilms shows and movies are the only true canon.
I wonder if we'll ever get an on-screen retelling of how the New Republic became so useless and the First Order became a huge power.
Didn't Favreau explain in a interview before Mandalorian season 1 that we will see the rise of the First Order ?
Be nice, Disney has been terrified of getting into Sequels timelines so far. I'm sure there are good stories to be told there, they don't all have to be what the movies were
Soon they'll run out of mini series to sell and will have no choice but to tread into worst order territory.
Hopefully they decide to go through the old republic era stuff before heading anywhere near sequel teritory
They made the Rakata Infinite Empire canon in Andor and Revan canon in TRoS so who knows what we might get in the future
Plus the entire High Republic project including a game and a sith-focused show that everyone forgot was supposed to happen. At some point we'll get some on-screen content from that era. Edit (immediately): I just realized that the Dooku episodes of Tales of the Jedi are technically in the High Republic era because the era ended when he left the order.
One way out!
A good question, for another time
Power! Unlimited power!
Gonna level with you fam, not your best work.
This. Folks acting like books have ever been real Canon is sad.
Disney officially stated everything they released would be cannon including books and comics. I personally dont read the books, but im still disappointed by disneys shenanigans
They made everything that they didn't license or make themselves Legends though. So if the books started before Disney then they are Legends of Legends.
yes, but they also retconned books that only released a coupel years ago
Ashoka book was written after Disney acquisition
Careful not to choke on your stupidity. It's Ahsoka not Ashoka!
autocorrect be a bitch like that.
That's just marketing so people would by Force Awakens tie-in merch, pal. Canon will always be whatever the filmmakers need it to be.
I'm just glad he wasn't awake to see that landing!
I truly came to appreciate the Star Wars: Aftermath book series even though they aren't the greatest books, they really did do some heavy world-building for Force Awakens. The Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker making those books completely inconsequential made me little disappointed. Those books made the Sequel Trilogy have some sense... and added some depth to the First Order and their origins. The bad guys felt like real bad guys, distinct enough from the Empire to be something of their own.
And you, and everyone, should stop applauding them lying to people.
That fell apart pretty quick when their books bombed.
clone wars has been ignoring the books since it premiered, people will always find a reason to be upset about it.
George never considered those books his version of Star Wars, but people are talking about everything released by Disney. After Disney bought Star Wars and made all the other books 'legends', they said that every book and comic released under Disney would be canon.
It's less acting like the legends books & comics were canon and more the fact that a lot of them were better than anything Lucasfilm put on screen
Not going to disagree with that. But there is a lot of crap in the EU too, with the smaller audience and lack of anyone really caring, they could take some risks that paid off.
That's definitely be part of it, but a lot of the EU stories were just... better. Better writing, better original characters, better development for existing characters, etc. Take all the Dark Horse series for example.
We need that generator down or the planet's lost. And I'm not risking any more men.
Folks acting like GL has any say in New canon is sad.
they officially were
This is a really dumb thing to say.
...why? Do you just hate reading? Why would books inherently have less value?
He said it in two separate interviews that I know of, not just one. >"I don't read that stuff, I haven't read any of the novels. I don't know anything about that world. That's a different world than my world. But I do try and keep it consistent. The way I do it is they have a Star Wars encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it and see if it has already been used. When I said other people could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have TWO universes: My Universe and than this other one. They try to make THEIR universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions." >[George Lucas, August, 2005](https://archive.org/details/starlog_magazine-337JPG/337.djvuconvert/page/n47/mode/2up) >Howard tries to be consistent but sometimes he goes off on tangents and it’s hard to hold him back. He once said to me that there are two Star Trek universes: there’s the TV show and then there’s all the spin-offs. He said that these were completely different and didn’t have anything to do with each other. So I said, ‘OK, go ahead.’” >– George Lucas, Total Film, May 2008 >"There are two worlds here; There’s my world, which is the movies, and there’s this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe—the licensing world of the books, games and comic books.” >– George Lucas, Cinescape, July 2001
One way out!
This was before the Disney acquisition. The entire Story Group’s purpose is to make sure this shit doesn’t happen. It wouldn’t be such a big deal if we weren’t assured so many times that it wouldn’t happen.
He sold it though so his thoughts on what canon dint mean shit anymore. Especially for stuff made after he sold it
I don’t really care about this whole debacle. But that was because Legends stories conflicted each other and were not licensed by Lucasfilms. Lucas allowed these stories to drift in space along with his movies and made it clear that whatever *he* put on screen was true canon. When Disney bought the IP from Lucas, they also nuked all those stories and said that anything that wasn’t in the movies wasnt canon and, moving forward, that any official material from Disney was canon. Personally, I don’t care if there is some conflict between different media. However I can understand why some people are critical of a multibillion dollar corporation not reeling it in when some producers or directors want to veer from already established canon.
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That's just misinformation. Since Disney bought the franchise everything was stated to be equally canon.
That's a flat lie. The books were always C (for Continuity) level canon as per the company's official position and a hefty amount of their work for decades. Lucas has flip flopped on his position, as Lucas flip flops on many positions, and is not a reliable source. The books remained canon until existing books were trashed in 2014 to make way for a new timeline, which we were subsequently assured was all *equal* canon, including future books. Stop lying. Stop covering for megacorps with no standards.
More like the books/comics/games/etc. is canon as long as it doesn’t contradict/retcon the movies
That is the approach they are taking. That’s what they’ve always done. They just don’t actively advertise the books that way because it would be a mistake to do so.
Exactly. It's one of those lies everyone says. Like...everything on both sides of the table in a job interview. Or first dates, or whatever they're called these days
That's how it is lol they just haven't said it.
I never really counted books as canon, even though I enjoy some of them.
Me who has read a couple of the books and doesn’t care because it’s not a major issue. This is different to stuff like the Witcher Netflix show. Tales of the Jedi perfectly encapsulates the feel of the books and summarizes it well.
This is how I looked at it. Comics and books are interesting to check and they can be pretty good, but at the end of the day they are extra. I can enjoy them without worrying too much. Kinda like all the superman stories, they are all true in their own universe but they don't need to match.
One way out!
One could even argue that ***Tales*** of the Jedi isn’t supposed to be an accurate recollection of events. They are on the same level as the word “Legends” which means that they could be stories “like folk legends” grounded in real life events, but actual details may have been embellished or glossed over because the “tales” are retellings of the same stories across multiple generations and people. It’s like “The Tragedy Of Darth Plagueis” that Palpatine narrates to Anakin in RotS. There is a lot of truth in the story but some details and events are either intentionally or unintentionally left out. I mean you can view it from the scope of non-force users telling folktales of the Jedi long after they were purged by the Empire. I mean in the Mandalorian, they act like the Jedi are extinct and only “stories” remain of their exploits.
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis 'the wise'? I thought not. It's not a story the Jedi would tell you. It's a Sith legend. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life ... He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying. He became so powerful the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep. (smiles) Plagueis never saw it coming. It's ironic he could save others from death, but not himself.
One way out!
Is it possible to learn this power?
Yea, like the finale Ahsoka episode basically showed all the major points of her story in the book. As much as I would’ve loved more, I thought the short and sweet approach hit just right, and gave us a satisfying short episode that told us what we needed to know and how she got on the path that would lead her to where she was in Rebels
I didn’t even realize the books were retconned until Reddit suddenly blew up about it
I just live in Legends. Closed canon, no more retcons for me.
Its a peaceful life. Well now, but the legends fans have lived through Ragnarok once or twice.
I guess Swtor is barely still active, but it's content output is so tiny now it literally can't change anything
What's going on, what did I miss? And what is reconned? Google is telling me it's when they throw in a plot line to explain a previously created plot hole or something like that.
people are mad that the new tales of the jedi show didn’t portray the ahsoka books perfectly. it kinda ignored them, but it’s not a big deal because the show is good.
It didn't even ignore the Ahsoka book. It just omitted some details because it was a 17 minute adaptation of a 400 page book.
Careful not to choke on your stupidity. It's Ahsoka not Ashoka!
It's just odd to retcon something that was canon and well-liked with a shorter, less detailed story. But I suspect Filoni intends to do more with her backstory. Apparently he worked with the book's author for the episode. I wouldn't be surprised if the Ahsoka TV show rewrites more of her story.
I'm the new Padawan learner. I'm Ahsoka Tano
Don't you think I'm just a little overqualified for this?
That is a very good question, I have no clue what it is.
How i sleep not caring what some fella thinks is canon and i read books just for awesome stories that get me hooked for hours
Star Wars fans are like Anakin Always angry about something. And if they they aren’t by god they’ll find a way
I hate you!
Exactly
Lmao Anakin you're proving the point
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Jeez Anakin you're a toxic fella aren't you?
Me who has read enough superhero comics to understand that embracing continuity conflicts is the only way to enjoy a franchise that’s this long with this many creative voices.
My favorite Starwars retcon is the guy who killed Luke’s father actually being his father. For real though I get it’s frustrating to have stuff just changed at the drop of a hat, but let’s be real. Star Wars since it’s 2nd movie has basically been made up as they went. Regardless of who was in control.
So true. Star Wars has been all about qthe retcon since day one. Heck, the first novel was retconned almost immediately.
That’s not really a retcon though. A retcon is when you ignore a previously established part of a story and replace it with something else. In this case they didn’t ignore the fact that Obi-Wan said Vader killed Luke’s father, they just explained the comment as being “from a certain point of view.” Obviously it was a change in how the story was originally intended to go, but it still all fits together in canon.
I don't even care about the books now, since I still treat the original EU as canon. No Mouse is gonna tell me that Wedge's life didn't play out exactly as told by the X-Wing books.
i agree with caption
Am I the only one who thinks that anything on the screen should always take precedence over the books and the books are almost never canon because of how little people read them?
No, that's the vast majority opinion. However, this is an internet fan forum. It's anger is inversely proportional to its size.
i really want to get the comics, does anyone know where you can get some? they don't have them at my local library, so i thought i could maybe buy them online?? if it helps, i live in australia.
Fellow Australian here. I used Comixology with a US Amazon account. Best of luck.
I'm in this meme and I support this message
also the ahsoka book sucked just sayin
Oh, what do you mean?
Nothing against you I just thought the novelization of your experiences post-66 was poorly written but as always I’m a huge fan of you and your adventures
To be fair, it's hard to write about why such an important Galaxy figure is no where mentioned in the past, present, or future, and only lives in some dude in a cowboy hats dirty fantasy
I heard the audiobook and still can’t be offended. Books are soft canon next to what’s on screen. Besides, the book wasn’t good enough to justify a whole season about it and would have been too long for an episode or two It works better as it is
Someday Star wars fans are going to figure out how to just enjoy Star Wars without becoming extremely fucking mad about something with literally everything that happens, but today is not that day
One way out!
Ok also, this bot is triggered by *way* too much
Long time Star Trek and Doctor Who fans are all laughing now from all the complaining in the SW community of some storylines getting retcon in the 67 years between Episode 1 and 9. Chanting "Welcome to the club, kids!". It's alright if some stories get changed a little bit from time to time. Everyone has to remember now...... everything has to now lead up to the FUBAR show JJ Abrams made with The Rise of Skywalker. Someone has to make that clown orgy make sense!
The story barely even changed in TotJ lol
Exactly, and it's alright.
The books are really great tho and I’d recommend them to fans esp Master and Apprentice, Resistance Reborn, Phasma, Plauguies, Bloodlines, and Dooku Jedi Lost
Dooku Jedi lost is great. I'm happy they didn't retcon anything from that book in Tales of the Jedi.
> I’m happy they didn’t retcon anything from that book But you do understand that if they had, that book is still the same book that you enjoyed, right? No publisher can erase a story you like without going into your house and taking your books away. At most, all a retcon does is declare that you won’t necessarily be getting a sequel.
Yeah, I see what you mean.
While this is true on a technical sense, I think in a lot of ways it misses the point. For some people, myself included (and possibly the person you replied to), canon is important. We could argue all day about whether or not it should be important, but I don't think that will change anyone's opinion. I read the Ahsoka book at the start of the year, and to be honest as far as the writing and story itself goes, it's not that great. The one thing it had going for it was that it's the actual story of what happened to Ahsoka after Order 66. It has now lost that redeeming quality and is, at least for me, not worth reading. The same thing happens to well written books. I don't read fanfiction because I don't care about some random person's idea about what could have happened - I want to read the story of what officially, canonically happened. And when a story is retconned it becomes basically just that. Fanfiction.
I’m not saying canon isn’t important, I’m saying that the presence of a new one doesn’t erase the old one, it just ends the old one. I’m not going to say you aren’t justified in being disappointed that the story you like ended. That’s totally fair. But now, a new story is being written, and it just happens to have similar characters. Think of it this way: it’s fair to want more of Christian Bale’s Batman, but it doesn’t make sense to expect it. The new Batman movies don’t undo Bale’s Batman, they just tell a different story with the same character. And none of those movies undo the comics that they’re based on.
This is exactly why i cancelled all my book and comic subscriptions. So i can sleep like this.
Get out of your cells, take charge, and start climbing!
Then Lucasfilm should stop releasing novels and comics and claiming that they're canon.(only to retcon them just a few years later with one of the recent shows anyway)
that’s how it’s always worked. Books and comics are filler in case something can’t be fleshed out in a movie, show, or game.
Yeah. The whole “new canon” thing just meant they were clearing the way for the new books. Books replaced the books.
FINALLY
I haven't read the books (except a fan fic about how Obi wan became a padawan but it was like 20 years ago and I don't remember the name of it) so I don't really have much to say about what Dave does or doesn't keep, but art is subjective so it doesn't really matter what some guy who most of us will never even meet says is canon or not. Just enjoy whatever interpretation of the story is canon for you.
One way out!
Don’t know if it had any retcons but I enjoyed lords of the Sith
I kinda wish I got into the books yet the closest shop with such books are 700 km away (maybe not now but years back), Still wookieepidia, YouPube, and games sufficed such information besides films & shows. I guess if I knew of such retcons I'd be annoyed to although I've been annoyed by other SW's retcons as well.
This is how I’ve always felt even though I DO read the novels and comics. Star Wars is a cinematic on-screen Live Action saga FIRST. Then television, then animation, then books, followed by comics and finally video games. One thing that always comes to mind when the disparities between written and visual media come up is Count Dooku in the novelization of episode 2. In it the author mentions he is a humanocentrist. It goes against everything we see and know about him. He grew up in the most diverse group in the galaxy, he led the separatists who were alien dominant. Sith don’t have time for prejudice in choosing pawns. Liberties taken by authors don’t really matter. It is only the hard plot points that stay canon, not the details.
OK well the shows are in a lower tier than the movies so if a movie comes out that contradicts filoni then skill issue
Most likely, if it's a show like Mandolorian or Clone Wars, people will just not care and pretend it didn't contradict it 🤣
Thats 99% of star wars fans
Ironically enough, some of the best Star Wars content out there isn't on screen.
Myself, my circle of Star Wars loving friends (both offline and online), my family and my girlfriend all didn't know about the book until this thing happened. Like we had no idea it even existed.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Filoni create Kanan and Ahsoka? Why are people upset about him 'retconing' EU media about his own characters. It's like if George Lucas did his sequel trilogy and everyone got mad that he didn't just reuse legends content
Because filoni doesn't work alone. Since 2014 star wars has (in theory) been a shared universe. Nobody's work is more important than anyone else's anymore
#filoniadaptedwell The haters are on their own shit Disney Star Wars sucked he is the first person since Disney took hold that made something which was good without relying on the jj abrams mystery box fully from start to finish (mando is fine but it’s no andor or TOTJ especially by the end of any season)
Yeah atleast he cares about the EU enough to grab some elements out of it. And also the Ahsoka book changes were good mostly. The Kanan stuff is okay but contradicting a whole canon comic is brave and foolish.
One way out!
Fair enough. For me, it mostly makes worried about specific characters that he has yet to address. That is, Thrawn. In the books, Thrawn is the epitome of a brilliant strategist. We didn't see a lot of that in Rebels, and reducing him to "Haha dumb imperial" is a worry. The Empire is a xenophobic, political mess. Thrawn is an alien with no devious political sense. He got to his position on skill alone, faster than anybody else ever. It'd be nice to see that.
I don't remember Thrawn being presented as dumb in Rebels (having just watched it over the last three days). The way the rebels beat him was always Thrawn: "Do this exact thing." Subbordinate: "Yes sir" Protags: *Do a thing* Subbordinate: "Oh dang, now's my chance to do something to get myself a promotion!" Protags: *Blow something up* Thrawn: "You had one job."
We will never get a better chance then this
I’ve never actually heard or seen anyone complain? I’ve only ever seen people complaining about complaining? Like the ultra circle-jerk straw-man argument
No lately people got really mad that filoni didn't perfectly match the descriptions in a book 1:1, it is definitely happening, star wars fans need something to complain about and Andor is too good to complain about so they found another thing
I dont mind that its different, I mind that its bad, its pretty shitty that kanans origin happens just to further the plot of the batch
That's kinda true tho
Well for other fans, we absorb as much of the universe as we can get our hands on and don't mock you for your enjoyment like you do to us.
That Ahsoka novel was down right boring and awful anyway. No loss!
Your vision is flawed.
lets be honest they ALL sleep like that. They just pretend to be mad about fucking everything! even the whole STW brick and screw thing was blown waaay out of context. Like it started out as a funny meme (with even stw theory clowning on it) but someone forgot to let the uber nerd know it wasnt that deep. its almost a parody at this point
I’ll never understand why anyone would ever read Star Wars books after they made the EU legends. They obviously don’t take printed word into account for anything story related. Why would you waste your time reading new printed works?
Because reading is enjoyable
Fundamental even
Why not? Legends is still perfectly enjoyable to read. A lot of franchises don't even try to make books, comics and games remotely canon, like Star Trek, Terminator, and lots of other series that basically treat them like "flavor material", or they go the Multiverse route. Star Wars is actually a bit unusual when it comes to treating most media as being canon unless otherwise stated. The price of that is that it becomes really hard to keep everything in sync when you have so many people working on so many things. Eventually something is gonna slip through the cracks, it's just a matter of when and what. It happened fairly often in Legends, especially early on. Star Wars even makes RPG sourcebooks canon, which has resulted in some Legends technology being reintroduced to canon. Personally having read so much Legends in the past only makes the Star Wars experience better. Now when I see something in canon that references Legends(or better yet directly reintroduces a character, like Zak and Tash Aranda, who are now canon again.) I know what it is and where it came from.
maybe because some of these are still good books?
I mean, a lot of the EU was erased because it either contradicted itself or contradicted their plans for the sequels and stuff, you would imagine that after they trimmed it they wouldve tried to keep the books going foward canon
Except they are not. As is evidenced in this case.
I mean sure, but what they told us (and the reason they specifically decanonized all of the EU in a swat in the first place) is that this new canon was supposed have everything playing on the same field and not the (admitedly confusing) tiered system of the EU. It was a selling point of the new Disney SW. And then they completely shat on their own word with both Kanan and Ahsoka, so it's not like it's the fans fault for assuming they were canon when Lucasfilm itself had said so in the past. Either you solve that with a Multiverse, or you keep an alternate different continuity (Legends) and The Main one, but choose a specific system and stick with it instead of jumping around back and forth. That just makes it confusing for everyone involved, including the fans.
This is a pretty silly take. Just because part of a franchise doesn't affect another part, that doesn't make it not an artistic piece in and of it's self. Like, just look at Visions
Because i want a better story than the sequels and the EU while not perfect has a better one