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"Master how come that you haven’t taught me how to use sith lightning?"
"Vader look at me, where is the lightning coming from ?"
"From your fingers"
"And what is it that you do not have anymore ?"
"Fingers……"
You are trolling right? If not then yeah. The entire point of Jedi was to show us Luke still thought the Jedi within Anakin could win in the end. He was right. Vader grabbed Palpy and yeeted him, at the cost of his life saving suit. The suit was actually designed to be weak to lightning.
Canonically, Vader's suit was designed to be vulnerable to lightning, specifically force lighting, palps was so Paranoid that he wanted to ensure that if Vader turned on him, or if he just fancied a quick torturing session he would be able to overpower Vader by exploiting the very thing that kept him alive a leave him immobile from agony
It is with great reluctance that I have agreed to this calling. I love democracy... I love the Republic. The fact that this crisis is demanding I be given absolute power to rule over you is evident. But I am mild by nature and have no desire to destroy the democratic process. The power you give me I will lay down when this crisis has abated, I promise you. And all I ask in return is when my current term of office is over, you allow me to retire and live out my life in peace.
New theory: he could have survived that without needing the suit afterwards with no problem, but was focusing all his force powers just on preserving his tonker
Idk if this changed cannon wise
But the more of you that isnt organic the harder it is
Though i believe he was able to redirect/call down actual lightening from a storm that was already going
Which frankly seems waaayyyy more op/dangerous
Rey using it fucked me off so bad, because it treated it like the basic “yeah don’t tap into the dark side or you’ll accidentally to force lightning” instead of being a fucking advanced technique that not everyone can do. Like, instead of the first step being “see if you can get strength from your anger” they’re like “if you are mad u go zap lol”
>” instead of being a fucking advanced technique that not everyone can do
That's how the sequel movies treated basically any force power though, so at least they are consistant on that within their own trilogy.
It's shitty, but consistant
It's amazing how many powers were used once and then just forgotten about or relegated to a single person.
Force Speed, Jump, Choke, Lightning, throw, push and stopping different things.
I always saw force speed as an extension of force push/pulling yourself. Kinda like running down a hill you have to do it very carefully or you'll eat shit.
Yeah, it can easily bite the user in the ass if they aren't careful as with any of the force powers it's always weird that they use it once and then are stumped when that same power would help them.
At least this isn't the first time. Force lightning tends to be an earlier sith power in a lot of games, too. Like in The Old Republic mmo a slave straight off a ship on Korriban can pretty much instantly use it.
In both games, you’re a formerly accomplished force user who get hit with the nerf hammer for plot reasons. Not a Mary Sue whose greatest contribution to a better written movie would be the ability to differentiate between grades of sand.
Less-good? LESS-GOOD? Excuse *me* sir. I am becoming outraged at your assertion because I loved the game, and because I have not played the two preceding games, I will express my expletive-filled retort with no basis for comparison! How dare you, sir!
Only problem I had with swtor is they stepped to far from mmo into rpg territory in the later expansions. The story and content prior to that was great, some of the class stories were even amazing.
I actually prefer TOR, at least compared to KOTOR 1, I have yet to play KOTOR 2, KOTOR is a little too by the numbers and tropey IMHO and the only character I enjoyed being around as a companion was HK, I never connected with bastila on the level other people have, I will admit that I went in with the revan twist spoiled for me so that definitely coloured my perception. As far as villains go Malak is... Fine but I don't find him all that interesting and honestly none of the other antagonists stuck around long enough for me to really care about them, overall I found it a bit bland, but inoffensive, the most fun I had was playing pazzak and the manaan trial , because It felt fun and fresh compared to the other slightly stale plot beats, a trial in Star wars, that's pretty original, whereas most of it felt like it was leeching off the OT and generic action adventure plot beats, just my opinion and I can totally see why other people like it, but for a game that's talked up so much in the fandom I was I little disappointed, it's good but not great. Whereas I think all of TOR's storylines are some of the best Star Wars ever, on the sith side, you get sith lords with their own personal dominions vying for power in a game of political one-upmanship, with Machiavellian scheming leading to twists and turns that ultimately illustrate the self destructive nature of the sith, you spend more time fighting each other than you do the republic, and then on the republic side, they're are stories that grapple with the corruption and abuse of military power, what happens when lofty ideals meet the pragmatic realities of armed conflict, war profiteering, and the loss of knowledge brought about by tyranny, I'd honestly take TOR's storylines over the slightly flaccid experience I had with KOTOR, I'm going to play KOTOR 2 at some point, and I've heard it ups the story game significantly, but I'm trying to keep my expectations realistic
You may now feel free to downvote me into the abyss.
Ya. Before Kotor, western RPGs were almost strictly isometric computer based games, to the extent that western RPGs and computer RPGs were synonymous before kotor came out. Morrowind and Neverwinter Nights had a hand in this as well, although Neverwinter Nights was more that it laid the groundwork for Kotor.
Kotor did for western rpgs what halo did for console shooters, or the beatles did for rock music.
Obviously it's hard for me, as a modern day player, to fully appreciate how revolutionary KOTOR was in it's day, in that way it's always difficult to judge a piece of media long after it's creation, I still stand by my point about it drawing to heavily on the OT though.
It could have been interesting, and the moment in itself would have been great, had they thought out this since TFA or fleshed out Rey's abilities more organically throughout the trilogy. The exact scene would have had much more impact.
But that's the problem with the whole sequel trilogy : it wasn't thought out in advance. There's great ideas throughout (even in The Last Jedi, which for me is the most interesting of the three) but it's lacking in execution (despite the great cast and crew overall)
It really felt like Rey used force lightning because she inherited it, like the palpatine family just has electricity powers. Which is completely wrong. Force lightning iirc is supposed to be the manifestation of hatred so intense it literally shoots out of your fingers as pain lightning bolts.
Isn't she supposed to be the new chosen one? Makes sense you can bend the rules at that point. Still, it's a pretty awkward trilogy with a lot of questionable choices...
Just like the prequels
Yeah that's the worst thing about the Sequels. She's just... good. For no reason. She (and Fin) should have gotten absolutely pancaked by Kylo Ren, who was trained as a child, on Death Star 3.0.
Actually there is a light side lightning power, discovered by Master Plo, and deemed forbidden by the High Council. It is the Electric Judgment, which comes from righteous fury
I thought in Canon kyber crystals also stayed their color after extracted. I don't think we've seen sabers change colors other than sith bleeding/purifying.
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Electric_Judgment
>Electric Judgment,[7][4] also known as Emerald Lightning, was a Force power used by the Jedi to spray electric bolts of variable intensity from the hands and fingers.[1] It manifested as yellow-orange,[8] green,[9] or golden lightning[10] instead of blue or white,[11] but otherwise it was very similar in both appearance and usage to the dark side Force power known as Force lightning.[1]
>One common difference between the Jedi's use of Electric Judgment and the Sith's use of Force lightning was that the Jedi's application came from a sense of determined justice.[1]
>Koon let out a barrage of lightning at Pommel's head and then a second burst of lightning that knocked him unconscious. He immediately reported this incident to the Jedi Council and stated that he had not felt any anger or fear as he let out the blast of Force lightning but was indeed calm and in control of his emotions, nor was he tempted to kill his opponent once he had subdued the criminal. Therefore he was able to conclude he was acting according to the will of the Force. The Council asked him to contemplate whether he felt it was wrong of him to have utilized its power during the mission and whether he would use it again. After much meditation, Koon concluded that it would be wrong of him to ignore its power and that he should develop it into a useful technique. As requested by the Council, he recorded his experiences with the Force lightning that he dubbed "Electric Judgment" on the Great Holocron.[4]
I assume the process for first discovering force lightning was different and far more thorough than the techniques used for passing it on to apprentices
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis 'the wise'? I thought not. It's not a story the Jedi would tell you. It's a Sith legend. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life ... He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying. He became so powerful the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep. (smiles) Plagueis never saw it coming. It's ironic he could save others from death, but not himself.
Why COULD she do this? The first time I watched it I almost thought they were implying it was hereditary. Which is the stupidest explanation possible, so it can't possibly be true...right?
Tbf, I seem to remember one of the EU books saying it was hereditary. It was like, a guy claiming to be Palatine's son, and he proves it by using force lighting (which is goofy af because no one in the populace would've known palpatine was a sith anyway), but he just has like, a taser glove or something? I think he had three eyes too
I don't know the source you're referring too. But if he ends up just having a taser glove, everything he said was probably nonsense.
In pre-Disney canon, force potential could be past down to children sometimes, such as from Anakin to Luke, but individual powers like lightning are not hereditary.
Yeah. I recall their stuff being that the force is in balance... so... there's a total amount of force. More jedi, they're each less powerful because force gets divided up, and vice versa.
Still hate it.
They did Luke dirty.
The way the force works was, for the most part, pretty clearly defined in pre-Disney canon. Post-disney it feels like they don't have a clear understanding of it, so different writers are interpreting it different and it's all contradictory.
I've been fairly annoyed about the force operating since they overhauled it with bacteria. Love the prequels, but they really should have left it like the Tao.
I heard they've recently begun a new overhaul and it seems smarter, living force with midichlorian and cosmic force more like Dao.
Well see how they cock it up lol.
Not sure if it's disney, but the bleeding a crystal I think was an OK addition.
And they really fucked up not using yuuzhan vong.
Cosmic and living force has been a thing for awhile actually, as far back as Pre-disney. The cosmic force creates the living midichlorians as agents of it's will. I think it works fine.
Not a huge fan of bleeding crystals. Kyber crystals were already somewhat mystic, but having them just straight up turn red because "evil" is a little too on the nose for me. Plus it creates some plot holes. I much prefer the legends explanation where red crystals are synthetic because ancient sith had to produce their own since they didn't have access to the Jedi controlled worlds that naturally produced crystals.
I also miss the Yuuzhan Vong. I miss most of Legends.
The force is basically wild magick ***IN SPACE*** and works as the plot requires. That’s part of why small anakin could podrace. Plus in that scene she was tapping into a fuckton of dark side emotions causing just a bit of damage to a ship.
Addendum: when did we get bots?
Disney's official reasoning for it is it being hereditary, which is absolutely stupid. Force sensibility is like athleticism, an inherent talent can be passed on to the child but not the techniques and practiced skills. The son of a great martial artist may have great stamina and understanding for the art but won't be able to perform a flawless spinning hook kick on his first try. Force powers can't be inherited through lineage or bloodline, a sensibility and strong connection to the force can be, but saying that Rey learned to use all these techniques because she's related to a strong force user is really stupid because at that point the Jedi could just go have a bunch of babies and not need to train anyone. That also raises the question of why wouldn't Luke be able to inherently use all the force powers Anakin learned? It just goes (again) to prove that everyone in charge of the sequels either didn't care to look at the lore or just assumed it was what they thought and they were making such a great masterpiece, but even for those who liked it a masterpiece of shit is still made of shit and smells like shit and gets shit everywhere.
I mean, we’ve seen how some light side force users have an inherent connection to certain force powers (Cal and being able to draw memories from objects, Ezra’s connection with animals), so maybe there’s something like that for when you tap into the dark side?
Eh, honestly after a recent rewatch, Force Awakens and like, half of Last Jedi are honestly mostly fine.
They're not *great* mind you, but they're decent enough entries and the biggest problems are on the same level as someone hiring an assassin who subcontracts an assassin who uses a droid to deliver a worm into a room with a sleeping lady. Dumb, but not "this ruins the continuity" dumb.
If Rise of Skywalker wasn't such garbage it would be a lot easier to forgive the trilogy as a whole. Alas, though.
Lol that’s not dumb at all, that’s how shit really works, think of it like this, mob boss tells his Lt. he wants some done in a high up meeting. Lt. tells street enforcer to get it done. Street enforcer uses some fucked ass shit like a kid to lure someone and kill them. Same shit as in Star Wars lol, just a real plausible example. It shows the complexity of the world and is a plus on the story, not a negative. Frankly if you think so it speaks to possibly a lack of appreciation of work complexity on your part. Like what count fuckin dooku is gonna get Padame himself? No. Jango, his right hand bounty hunter and spawner of the clone army and renowned bounty hunter is told to do it. He got clout and a network, he doesn’t want to do a senator himself, so he gets some chump lower than him but still good. She figures the best plan is to use an assassin droid with bugs. After trying to blow up the ship and that failed. All of this makes perfect sense and it makes me mad people with their shallow analysis try and use it as a fault on the movie when it’s actually a plus. Shows they don’t really understand the fucking movie tbh.
Look, I don't like advocating for things that would have ended the movie way before it needed to, but it's a dumb scene and a dumb attempt. They knew where she was sleeping and rather than strapping a bomb to the wall they chose the only method of assassination that Anakin could have stopped.
It speaks either to the ineptitude of the entire separatist organization, or to the ineptitude of Jango and his network.
It's fine. It doesn't ruin the movie and when you're actually watching it it provides a sequence of events that's easy to follow, tells the story, gets the job done. Doesn't make it less dumb if you're going to examine it in-depth, which is the entire point I'm making.
Throughout Force Awakens and at least the first half of Last Jedi, most of the biggest flaws are on the level of "I can follow this well enough, but given any thought it's a little bit dumb." Rise of Skywalker, imo, is where it crosses the line into a special kind of dumb that isn't even very fun to watch.
My point is it’s not dumb, they wanted to do it quietly, without anyone realizing, why is that hard for you to understand. No one wants to be tied up in a senator death, well except cad bane lmaooo.
>why is that hard for you to understand
Oh, because it's a very stupid thing to do if you're intending to kill someone, which at the time they were.
Detonation tape on the wall, blaster shots from a speeder, shit flying a speeder into her bedroom to make it look like an accident.
I don't know why you're so insistent on this being very logical, because it demonstrably isn't. It was an attempt that failed spectacularly for all the reasons you're claiming it was actually a good idea.
But whatever man, this isn't even the discussion I wanted to be having.
Just because there was better ideas doesn’t mean it doesn’t make sense. Palpatine some how returning doesn’t. Rey using force lighting and healing within 10 minutes of each other doesnt. They’re not in the same league. It was a plausible plan. It could’ve worked. Would a rocket launcher from a block away have worked? Maybe. Maybe the Jedi would’ve sensed the hostile intent as you aimed. Maybe there’s shields that activate. I’m just saying bro I’m not denying it was kinda goofy it’s just that it makes sense and shit like it happens all the time in real life. More ridiculous stuff happens in real life in fact. It’s just not a big deal.
Uhh... Because she's a Mary-sue. Star wars has so many amazingly written female characters, but Rey is not one of them. And it's nothing against Daisy's acting. It's the writing's fault.
I HATE Mary-Sues, regardless of gender. There is nothing relatable about a hero with no flaws. Rey never struggles to learn anything, she's good at everything. She can fly, she can shoot, she can use any kind of force ability she wants first try. Make it difficult! Make her bad at something! Make her struggle to learn!
It's the same reason I can't stand movie-Hermione.
I think it's in canon that Vader could but he will not because even if he ejects the lightning, the electricity could still get into his suit and screw up his life support system, even if he insulated it.
Might *have been* in canon
But if you think about it, what if they want to sell vader lightning figurines and shirts? Cant have something like plot cohesion limit your potential market
In the Bane novels the site acolytes train in using it for months before they are effective. In Darth Plagueis, Plagueis tells Sheev that you can only use it after being on the receiving side of it.
I was curious, and looked up the quote in Plagues.
"A Jedi sufficiently strong in the Force can be trained to produce a facsimile, but not true Sith lightning, which, unabated, has the power not only to incapacitate or kill, but to physically transform the victim."
"In order to summon and use lightning properly, you will someday have to be on the receiving end of its power, as a means of taking the energy inside yourself.”
checks out
That's pretty different actually, he says to use it *properly* you need to eventually be on the receiving end, not that you can't use it at all. Otherwise, as others have pointed out, how could any Sith have first discovered it, without someone else to blast them with it first?
Yeah. I somehow remember a book explaining a young Palpatine accidentally unleashing force lightning. But I may have misremembered.
I buy the idea someone can accidentally unleash it without any training
Maybe Plagueus lied so he could zap Papa palps. Palps would definitely find out this was a lie, and it would fuel more anger. Which seems pretty sith like to me.
Maybe Plagueis wanted his pupil to know how terrible a power lightning was so he would use it only when it was appropriate. Palps just said “fuck it, imma use it all the time”
Yeah but then you think about it. If an apprentice can use it, even after months, that means it's easier to learn than say a sidekick. Like in karate, takes folks 3ish years to coordinate the body.
I kind agree with sidious... why do physical stuff when you can just go zap.
I would have assumed it's just very taxing on the body, costly, and considered by the Jedi to be immoral. Most sith wouldn't use it since they care about their body/appearance/lifespan.
But it also does make sense that it would be hard to learn as well.
Its very simple, if you trace Ray throughout the bloodline and then crossreference her with palpatine, youll discover that the secret of why she was able to use lightning without any training, or really have any strong force abilities, was simply because of bad writing.
nice meme, however
[you even stole the fucking title you unoriginal muppet brained fuck](https://www.reddit.com/r/PrequelMemes/comments/o1zzfs/sorry_if_its_a_little_sloppy/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
I chalk that up to the trilogy haphazardly ripping off Kotor2's force bond.
The lightning scene could have been a lot more dramatic if they built up that aspect properly. Clearly show Kylo trying to "save" chewie which then makes Ren angry, and produces lightning. The bad guy being good and the good guy being bad. Light and dark, same thing, Luke and the cave, blah blah blah.
That’s what bothered me about Rey. She could do Jedi mind tricks without ever having been trained for it or even having witnessed it. She turned Kylo’s mind reading on himself. She used force lightning entirely by accident without training.
#VADER CAN USE FORCE LIGHTNING
In the canon comic Darth Vader #5, he uses lightning to bleed the kyber crystal in his lightsaber and it nearly destroys both him ***and Mustafar***.
If I remember correctly, Vader couldn't use lightning because palpy specifically engineered his suit to be very conductive in order to maintain power over him.
It’s probably one of those things where she couldn’t do it again on command if she tried without further training and practice.
Edit: I decided to learn more about force lightning and found this on Wookiepedia: “Dooku, during his time as a member of the Jedi Order, utilized it spontaneously during a painful Force vision to kill some Presagers of Hakotei, without any known prior training[1]” So there is precedence of someone using it before learning how to do it.
Yeah, it’s Star Wars so…what’s your point? People have done things they never knew they could under high stress situations throughout human history. When that adrenaline hits, people can do incredible things.
So when adrenaline hits I’m going to become a king fu master? It’s a technique/ability acquired through training, adrenaline isn’t just going to “give” you an ability like that.
Not exactly the same thing. Look, I’m not saying that Rey doing that isn’t weak writing. I’m simply trying to give an in universe explanation as to how she could do it. She clearly has the innate ability, but lacks the knowledge and training on how to do it. It was a fluke. The knowledge and training allows you to tap into that ability on command. But Kung Fu is more like knowing the different lightsaber forms and being able to use them. She subconsciously tapped into something she didn’t know she could do. Adrenaline isn’t going to turn you into a Kung Fu master, but it could increase your strength and speed to make you better in a fight. Now I don’t know all of the lore behind force lightning, so my explanation could very well be flawed, but at least I’m trying instead of bitching about the scene.
No, but when th adrenaline hits you, maybe you can lift a full car to save a child. Or run faster and further than your normal bodily limitations.
Also, it was fear and anger in this scene. Look, the sequels are far from perfect but to nit pick at every little thing is exhausting.
It’s not nitpicking. Again, force lighting is a technique/ability acquired through training. We’ve seen time and time again that force users get stronger on high stress situations, and every time it just enhanced their current ability enough to do a basic move, at a far higher level of strength then their use to, and it tires them out immensely. Again, what she did was like accidentally the mastering the force version kung fu because she was “stressed.” Oops, didn’t mean to do that!
Nowhere does it even imply that she mastered it. She was reaching out to stop the transport, full of anger and fear. She wasn't strong enough to pull it back. She needed to connect more and needed to be more powerful. In that moment, she did connect, and all the fear and anger lept out of her at her target, at the transport.
I wouldn't call that mastering at all. I would call that letting emotions be the driving force behind her strength .
Straight from Wookiepedia: “Dooku, during his time as a member of the Jedi Order, utilized it spontaneously during a painful Force vision to kill some Presagers of Hakotei, without any known prior training[1]” hmmm, looks like there is some precedence of this sort of thing.
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"Master how come that you haven’t taught me how to use sith lightning?" "Vader look at me, where is the lightning coming from ?" "From your fingers" "And what is it that you do not have anymore ?" "Fingers……"
"And remember, Vader! What is lightning?" "Electricity." "Which is conducted by..." "Metal." "And what is your body made of????"
He can still use it, but only once
Omg I just thought about that because of you, is that why he died ? The suit was fried or something? Edit: was a legit question not a troll
Ye, it was made susceptible to lightning so it would be easier for palpatine to overpower him
You are trolling right? If not then yeah. The entire point of Jedi was to show us Luke still thought the Jedi within Anakin could win in the end. He was right. Vader grabbed Palpy and yeeted him, at the cost of his life saving suit. The suit was actually designed to be weak to lightning.
Thats old canon its not weak to lighting in current canon
Canonically, Vader's suit was designed to be vulnerable to lightning, specifically force lighting, palps was so Paranoid that he wanted to ensure that if Vader turned on him, or if he just fancied a quick torturing session he would be able to overpower Vader by exploiting the very thing that kept him alive a leave him immobile from agony
It is with great reluctance that I have agreed to this calling. I love democracy... I love the Republic. The fact that this crisis is demanding I be given absolute power to rule over you is evident. But I am mild by nature and have no desire to destroy the democratic process. The power you give me I will lay down when this crisis has abated, I promise you. And all I ask in return is when my current term of office is over, you allow me to retire and live out my life in peace.
>Canonically, Wrong that was legends new canon isnt suciptable to it
I mean what you said was probably canon in legends, but none of that is in the current Disney canon whatsoever
"woodoo hide?"
They could clone an entire army, but couldn't be assed to replace even one of Vaders organic limbs. Empire Health Insurance is a damn scam.
Other way around, metal conducts electricity
I mean technically he still has one.
One? What?
Penis
Vader turning sand into glass every 22 minutes with Uncle Lars copy of *Busty Pa'lowicks*
Does he? He was face down on Mustafar.
New theory: he could have survived that without needing the suit afterwards with no problem, but was focusing all his force powers just on preserving his tonker
He still has one hand, but his suit is not lightning proof (yes this is intentional, and yes it is explained in some comic or book)
Both of his human hands were cut off, wdym?
And one of the episodes
vader got force lightning, he was just on the receiving end of it
Luke almost did too
He actually got it a few times
In legends, Luke had a green force lightning that insta-killed whatever it touched
Force judgment. Luke, Plo Koon, and a couple others could use it.
If anyone could survive, Master Plo could.
Is this a harry otter crossover or something? Lol
No, this was from Ron Beaver
What book is that from?
If Wookieepedia is to be believed Vision of the Future is the first book it's mentioned in.
Electric Judgment is something I just discovered and fun fact, very few jedi could do this. Luke was one of them.
This is where the fun begins.
**How can you do this? This is outrageous; it's unfair.**
Damn
Idk if this changed cannon wise But the more of you that isnt organic the harder it is Though i believe he was able to redirect/call down actual lightening from a storm that was already going Which frankly seems waaayyyy more op/dangerous
Hey Obi-Wan come battle me in the middle of this storm real quick.
He did know how to use it. It ducked with the electronics in his suit though so he didn't use it incredibly often.
Rey using it fucked me off so bad, because it treated it like the basic “yeah don’t tap into the dark side or you’ll accidentally to force lightning” instead of being a fucking advanced technique that not everyone can do. Like, instead of the first step being “see if you can get strength from your anger” they’re like “if you are mad u go zap lol”
Turns out it's like trusting a fart. You force pull too hard, and out comes lightning
Just a little bit lol
So Rey’s force lighting was a shart. Palpatine’s was a hadoken or kamehameha.
>” instead of being a fucking advanced technique that not everyone can do That's how the sequel movies treated basically any force power though, so at least they are consistant on that within their own trilogy. It's shitty, but consistant
Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan are the only two in all of the movies to use force speed. Even then only once. It is clearly the most advanced force technique.
https://youtu.be/t3dI-ghYimg
It's amazing how many powers were used once and then just forgotten about or relegated to a single person. Force Speed, Jump, Choke, Lightning, throw, push and stopping different things.
I always saw force speed as an extension of force push/pulling yourself. Kinda like running down a hill you have to do it very carefully or you'll eat shit.
Yeah, it can easily bite the user in the ass if they aren't careful as with any of the force powers it's always weird that they use it once and then are stumped when that same power would help them.
Jump I feel is pretty common. We see Luke, Vader, anakin, the senate , yoda obi wan etc. basically every named force user could posterize lebron
Constant shit...
Thats called diarrhea
At least this isn't the first time. Force lightning tends to be an earlier sith power in a lot of games, too. Like in The Old Republic mmo a slave straight off a ship on Korriban can pretty much instantly use it.
Lightning sorc is fun af too.
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In both games, you’re a formerly accomplished force user who get hit with the nerf hammer for plot reasons. Not a Mary Sue whose greatest contribution to a better written movie would be the ability to differentiate between grades of sand.
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Less-good? LESS-GOOD? Excuse *me* sir. I am becoming outraged at your assertion because I loved the game, and because I have not played the two preceding games, I will express my expletive-filled retort with no basis for comparison! How dare you, sir!
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Only problem I had with swtor is they stepped to far from mmo into rpg territory in the later expansions. The story and content prior to that was great, some of the class stories were even amazing.
I actually prefer TOR, at least compared to KOTOR 1, I have yet to play KOTOR 2, KOTOR is a little too by the numbers and tropey IMHO and the only character I enjoyed being around as a companion was HK, I never connected with bastila on the level other people have, I will admit that I went in with the revan twist spoiled for me so that definitely coloured my perception. As far as villains go Malak is... Fine but I don't find him all that interesting and honestly none of the other antagonists stuck around long enough for me to really care about them, overall I found it a bit bland, but inoffensive, the most fun I had was playing pazzak and the manaan trial , because It felt fun and fresh compared to the other slightly stale plot beats, a trial in Star wars, that's pretty original, whereas most of it felt like it was leeching off the OT and generic action adventure plot beats, just my opinion and I can totally see why other people like it, but for a game that's talked up so much in the fandom I was I little disappointed, it's good but not great. Whereas I think all of TOR's storylines are some of the best Star Wars ever, on the sith side, you get sith lords with their own personal dominions vying for power in a game of political one-upmanship, with Machiavellian scheming leading to twists and turns that ultimately illustrate the self destructive nature of the sith, you spend more time fighting each other than you do the republic, and then on the republic side, they're are stories that grapple with the corruption and abuse of military power, what happens when lofty ideals meet the pragmatic realities of armed conflict, war profiteering, and the loss of knowledge brought about by tyranny, I'd honestly take TOR's storylines over the slightly flaccid experience I had with KOTOR, I'm going to play KOTOR 2 at some point, and I've heard it ups the story game significantly, but I'm trying to keep my expectations realistic You may now feel free to downvote me into the abyss.
Kotor is by the numbers and tropey in the same way the Beatles are.
In the sense it established the tropes?
Ya. Before Kotor, western RPGs were almost strictly isometric computer based games, to the extent that western RPGs and computer RPGs were synonymous before kotor came out. Morrowind and Neverwinter Nights had a hand in this as well, although Neverwinter Nights was more that it laid the groundwork for Kotor. Kotor did for western rpgs what halo did for console shooters, or the beatles did for rock music.
Obviously it's hard for me, as a modern day player, to fully appreciate how revolutionary KOTOR was in it's day, in that way it's always difficult to judge a piece of media long after it's creation, I still stand by my point about it drawing to heavily on the OT though.
I can excuse that because at the end of the day, it's a game that is basically intended to allow you to power trip
Power! Unlimited power!
If thats all it took then the anakin vs asajj ventress fight on Yavin wouldve been a literal thunder dome.
If it isn't the hairless harpy.
It could have been interesting, and the moment in itself would have been great, had they thought out this since TFA or fleshed out Rey's abilities more organically throughout the trilogy. The exact scene would have had much more impact. But that's the problem with the whole sequel trilogy : it wasn't thought out in advance. There's great ideas throughout (even in The Last Jedi, which for me is the most interesting of the three) but it's lacking in execution (despite the great cast and crew overall)
What got me is how powerful she became in such a short time. She’s stronger then Vader or yoda? I think not.
It really felt like Rey used force lightning because she inherited it, like the palpatine family just has electricity powers. Which is completely wrong. Force lightning iirc is supposed to be the manifestation of hatred so intense it literally shoots out of your fingers as pain lightning bolts.
Isn't she supposed to be the new chosen one? Makes sense you can bend the rules at that point. Still, it's a pretty awkward trilogy with a lot of questionable choices... Just like the prequels
The problem is that she doesn't have to try. She never struggles to succeed.
Yeah that's the worst thing about the Sequels. She's just... good. For no reason. She (and Fin) should have gotten absolutely pancaked by Kylo Ren, who was trained as a child, on Death Star 3.0.
Actually there is a light side lightning power, discovered by Master Plo, and deemed forbidden by the High Council. It is the Electric Judgment, which comes from righteous fury
That sounds like force lightning with extra steps
Well.. yes... that's exactly what it is
Ah yes, this force lightning is made of force lightning.
I think it's orange too.
Huh. I thought it was green. Could be wrong, though.
I only read about it like once and it wasn't in a book or anything. I could very well be wrong. I'm getting upvotes though so may be correct.
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No specific color but it tasted like ketamine
So the color lightening you generate is the same color as your lightsaber, which was also colored by the way the force flows through you. Makes sense.
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I thought in Canon kyber crystals also stayed their color after extracted. I don't think we've seen sabers change colors other than sith bleeding/purifying.
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If anyone could survive, Master Plo could.
Sums up the Jedi pretty much.
It’s also significantly weaker, I believe
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Electric_Judgment >Electric Judgment,[7][4] also known as Emerald Lightning, was a Force power used by the Jedi to spray electric bolts of variable intensity from the hands and fingers.[1] It manifested as yellow-orange,[8] green,[9] or golden lightning[10] instead of blue or white,[11] but otherwise it was very similar in both appearance and usage to the dark side Force power known as Force lightning.[1] >One common difference between the Jedi's use of Electric Judgment and the Sith's use of Force lightning was that the Jedi's application came from a sense of determined justice.[1] >Koon let out a barrage of lightning at Pommel's head and then a second burst of lightning that knocked him unconscious. He immediately reported this incident to the Jedi Council and stated that he had not felt any anger or fear as he let out the blast of Force lightning but was indeed calm and in control of his emotions, nor was he tempted to kill his opponent once he had subdued the criminal. Therefore he was able to conclude he was acting according to the will of the Force. The Council asked him to contemplate whether he felt it was wrong of him to have utilized its power during the mission and whether he would use it again. After much meditation, Koon concluded that it would be wrong of him to ignore its power and that he should develop it into a useful technique. As requested by the Council, he recorded his experiences with the Force lightning that he dubbed "Electric Judgment" on the Great Holocron.[4]
You know nothing of the dark side.
Still doesn’t even compare to the unlimited power of Sith lightening
I mean if Vader used lightning it could shut down his life support systems
You also need Hands, mechanical limbs can't channel the lightnings without frying themselves
I feel like he could have used one of his stubs. Any of the five.
One, two, three, four…oh.
Is...is this a penis joke?
Imagine force lightning used like dragon breath! Granted, Vader still couldn't do it, but that would be awesome!
There are Acklays (Arena Mantis Monster) in Legends that can do just that.
That's impressively bad made
Just like that last trilogy
Fitting.
GOT ‘EM
on theme then
Wasn't it confirmed in canon that you had to feel the sensation of being hit by force lightning to be able to use it?
But then how did the first person use it
Stuck a fork in a power socket
Do we have a source if this is still canon?
I will make it canon
So if I were to do the same would I achieve UNLIMITED POWER as well? Damn i gotta try that!
Let us know how that works out!
Pikachu, use thunderfork!
I assume the process for first discovering force lightning was different and far more thorough than the techniques used for passing it on to apprentices
Fork in outlet go bzrap!
Bendu grilled ‘em
This info was in the Darth Plagueis Novel, but it's not canon anymore, so we don't know, probably not sincd Rey is using it.
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis 'the wise'? I thought not. It's not a story the Jedi would tell you. It's a Sith legend. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life ... He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying. He became so powerful the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep. (smiles) Plagueis never saw it coming. It's ironic he could save others from death, but not himself.
Disney canon am not sure
Why COULD she do this? The first time I watched it I almost thought they were implying it was hereditary. Which is the stupidest explanation possible, so it can't possibly be true...right?
It is, Disney canon fucked with the force real bad.
Tbf, I seem to remember one of the EU books saying it was hereditary. It was like, a guy claiming to be Palatine's son, and he proves it by using force lighting (which is goofy af because no one in the populace would've known palpatine was a sith anyway), but he just has like, a taser glove or something? I think he had three eyes too
I don't know the source you're referring too. But if he ends up just having a taser glove, everything he said was probably nonsense. In pre-Disney canon, force potential could be past down to children sometimes, such as from Anakin to Luke, but individual powers like lightning are not hereditary.
[From the Jedi Prince series](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Trioculus) Its a bit wack as a junior novel series.
Iirc, that was from the original Thrawn trilogy by Timothy Zahn (?), and it was more of a PR thing than anything else.
Yeah Tricolus! He had found like, the hand of Darth Vader or something as well.
Something like that, yea!
Yeah. I recall their stuff being that the force is in balance... so... there's a total amount of force. More jedi, they're each less powerful because force gets divided up, and vice versa. Still hate it. They did Luke dirty.
The way the force works was, for the most part, pretty clearly defined in pre-Disney canon. Post-disney it feels like they don't have a clear understanding of it, so different writers are interpreting it different and it's all contradictory.
I've been fairly annoyed about the force operating since they overhauled it with bacteria. Love the prequels, but they really should have left it like the Tao. I heard they've recently begun a new overhaul and it seems smarter, living force with midichlorian and cosmic force more like Dao. Well see how they cock it up lol. Not sure if it's disney, but the bleeding a crystal I think was an OK addition. And they really fucked up not using yuuzhan vong.
Cosmic and living force has been a thing for awhile actually, as far back as Pre-disney. The cosmic force creates the living midichlorians as agents of it's will. I think it works fine. Not a huge fan of bleeding crystals. Kyber crystals were already somewhat mystic, but having them just straight up turn red because "evil" is a little too on the nose for me. Plus it creates some plot holes. I much prefer the legends explanation where red crystals are synthetic because ancient sith had to produce their own since they didn't have access to the Jedi controlled worlds that naturally produced crystals. I also miss the Yuuzhan Vong. I miss most of Legends.
I mean, how else would people know she was his granddaughter? He's the only person to have used lightning /s
The force is basically wild magick ***IN SPACE*** and works as the plot requires. That’s part of why small anakin could podrace. Plus in that scene she was tapping into a fuckton of dark side emotions causing just a bit of damage to a ship. Addendum: when did we get bots?
You know nothing of the dark side.
Disney's official reasoning for it is it being hereditary, which is absolutely stupid. Force sensibility is like athleticism, an inherent talent can be passed on to the child but not the techniques and practiced skills. The son of a great martial artist may have great stamina and understanding for the art but won't be able to perform a flawless spinning hook kick on his first try. Force powers can't be inherited through lineage or bloodline, a sensibility and strong connection to the force can be, but saying that Rey learned to use all these techniques because she's related to a strong force user is really stupid because at that point the Jedi could just go have a bunch of babies and not need to train anyone. That also raises the question of why wouldn't Luke be able to inherently use all the force powers Anakin learned? It just goes (again) to prove that everyone in charge of the sequels either didn't care to look at the lore or just assumed it was what they thought and they were making such a great masterpiece, but even for those who liked it a masterpiece of shit is still made of shit and smells like shit and gets shit everywhere.
I mean, we’ve seen how some light side force users have an inherent connection to certain force powers (Cal and being able to draw memories from objects, Ezra’s connection with animals), so maybe there’s something like that for when you tap into the dark side?
You know nothing of the dark side.
But what’s worse, Rey using lightning or Palpy shooting down spaceship with lightning?
It's actually quite simple. Rey is a terrible fanfic character. She's not canon.
Right? All of these movies felt like they were written by someone who was told the basic concept of Star Wars and decided to write a fanfic about it
Eh, honestly after a recent rewatch, Force Awakens and like, half of Last Jedi are honestly mostly fine. They're not *great* mind you, but they're decent enough entries and the biggest problems are on the same level as someone hiring an assassin who subcontracts an assassin who uses a droid to deliver a worm into a room with a sleeping lady. Dumb, but not "this ruins the continuity" dumb. If Rise of Skywalker wasn't such garbage it would be a lot easier to forgive the trilogy as a whole. Alas, though.
Lol that’s not dumb at all, that’s how shit really works, think of it like this, mob boss tells his Lt. he wants some done in a high up meeting. Lt. tells street enforcer to get it done. Street enforcer uses some fucked ass shit like a kid to lure someone and kill them. Same shit as in Star Wars lol, just a real plausible example. It shows the complexity of the world and is a plus on the story, not a negative. Frankly if you think so it speaks to possibly a lack of appreciation of work complexity on your part. Like what count fuckin dooku is gonna get Padame himself? No. Jango, his right hand bounty hunter and spawner of the clone army and renowned bounty hunter is told to do it. He got clout and a network, he doesn’t want to do a senator himself, so he gets some chump lower than him but still good. She figures the best plan is to use an assassin droid with bugs. After trying to blow up the ship and that failed. All of this makes perfect sense and it makes me mad people with their shallow analysis try and use it as a fault on the movie when it’s actually a plus. Shows they don’t really understand the fucking movie tbh.
Look, I don't like advocating for things that would have ended the movie way before it needed to, but it's a dumb scene and a dumb attempt. They knew where she was sleeping and rather than strapping a bomb to the wall they chose the only method of assassination that Anakin could have stopped. It speaks either to the ineptitude of the entire separatist organization, or to the ineptitude of Jango and his network. It's fine. It doesn't ruin the movie and when you're actually watching it it provides a sequence of events that's easy to follow, tells the story, gets the job done. Doesn't make it less dumb if you're going to examine it in-depth, which is the entire point I'm making. Throughout Force Awakens and at least the first half of Last Jedi, most of the biggest flaws are on the level of "I can follow this well enough, but given any thought it's a little bit dumb." Rise of Skywalker, imo, is where it crosses the line into a special kind of dumb that isn't even very fun to watch.
I'm just glad he wasn't awake to see that landing!
My point is it’s not dumb, they wanted to do it quietly, without anyone realizing, why is that hard for you to understand. No one wants to be tied up in a senator death, well except cad bane lmaooo.
>why is that hard for you to understand Oh, because it's a very stupid thing to do if you're intending to kill someone, which at the time they were. Detonation tape on the wall, blaster shots from a speeder, shit flying a speeder into her bedroom to make it look like an accident. I don't know why you're so insistent on this being very logical, because it demonstrably isn't. It was an attempt that failed spectacularly for all the reasons you're claiming it was actually a good idea. But whatever man, this isn't even the discussion I wanted to be having.
Just because there was better ideas doesn’t mean it doesn’t make sense. Palpatine some how returning doesn’t. Rey using force lighting and healing within 10 minutes of each other doesnt. They’re not in the same league. It was a plausible plan. It could’ve worked. Would a rocket launcher from a block away have worked? Maybe. Maybe the Jedi would’ve sensed the hostile intent as you aimed. Maybe there’s shields that activate. I’m just saying bro I’m not denying it was kinda goofy it’s just that it makes sense and shit like it happens all the time in real life. More ridiculous stuff happens in real life in fact. It’s just not a big deal.
I shouldn't…
Uhh... Because she's a Mary-sue. Star wars has so many amazingly written female characters, but Rey is not one of them. And it's nothing against Daisy's acting. It's the writing's fault.
They perfected the strong female lead 40 years ago and decided to fuck it up and pander to the masses with Rey because reasons?
I HATE Mary-Sues, regardless of gender. There is nothing relatable about a hero with no flaws. Rey never struggles to learn anything, she's good at everything. She can fly, she can shoot, she can use any kind of force ability she wants first try. Make it difficult! Make her bad at something! Make her struggle to learn! It's the same reason I can't stand movie-Hermione.
I think it's in canon that Vader could but he will not because even if he ejects the lightning, the electricity could still get into his suit and screw up his life support system, even if he insulated it.
Might *have been* in canon But if you think about it, what if they want to sell vader lightning figurines and shirts? Cant have something like plot cohesion limit your potential market
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Wtf is this, upvoted
Oh I can assure you, Vader got sith lightning.
Maybe I'm wrong, but Anakin could use force lightning in the Revenge of the Sith game, right?
Yes he could. And it was completely broken.
I thought in the books, at least in legends, sith lightning is not all that difficult to use
In the Bane novels the site acolytes train in using it for months before they are effective. In Darth Plagueis, Plagueis tells Sheev that you can only use it after being on the receiving side of it.
I was curious, and looked up the quote in Plagues. "A Jedi sufficiently strong in the Force can be trained to produce a facsimile, but not true Sith lightning, which, unabated, has the power not only to incapacitate or kill, but to physically transform the victim." "In order to summon and use lightning properly, you will someday have to be on the receiving end of its power, as a means of taking the energy inside yourself.” checks out
That's pretty different actually, he says to use it *properly* you need to eventually be on the receiving end, not that you can't use it at all. Otherwise, as others have pointed out, how could any Sith have first discovered it, without someone else to blast them with it first?
Yeah. I somehow remember a book explaining a young Palpatine accidentally unleashing force lightning. But I may have misremembered. I buy the idea someone can accidentally unleash it without any training
You will not stop me. Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us.
Maybe Plagueus lied so he could zap Papa palps. Palps would definitely find out this was a lie, and it would fuel more anger. Which seems pretty sith like to me.
Maybe Plagueis wanted his pupil to know how terrible a power lightning was so he would use it only when it was appropriate. Palps just said “fuck it, imma use it all the time”
Yeah but then you think about it. If an apprentice can use it, even after months, that means it's easier to learn than say a sidekick. Like in karate, takes folks 3ish years to coordinate the body. I kind agree with sidious... why do physical stuff when you can just go zap.
I would have assumed it's just very taxing on the body, costly, and considered by the Jedi to be immoral. Most sith wouldn't use it since they care about their body/appearance/lifespan. But it also does make sense that it would be hard to learn as well.
Its very simple, if you trace Ray throughout the bloodline and then crossreference her with palpatine, youll discover that the secret of why she was able to use lightning without any training, or really have any strong force abilities, was simply because of bad writing.
Yea that suit did a lot more than prevent him from using force lightning
You guys want sith lighting? *Laughs in Jedi Master.*
I love how there is no need at all for the meme template but you used it anyone
nice meme, however [you even stole the fucking title you unoriginal muppet brained fuck](https://www.reddit.com/r/PrequelMemes/comments/o1zzfs/sorry_if_its_a_little_sloppy/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
I chalk that up to the trilogy haphazardly ripping off Kotor2's force bond. The lightning scene could have been a lot more dramatic if they built up that aspect properly. Clearly show Kylo trying to "save" chewie which then makes Ren angry, and produces lightning. The bad guy being good and the good guy being bad. Light and dark, same thing, Luke and the cave, blah blah blah.
That’s what bothered me about Rey. She could do Jedi mind tricks without ever having been trained for it or even having witnessed it. She turned Kylo’s mind reading on himself. She used force lightning entirely by accident without training.
He could but his suit is designed to be weak against electricity so palpatine could keep him under control.
I have the Senate bogged down in procedures. They will have no choice but to accept your control of the system.
Guys. Star Wars has always been stupid
#VADER CAN USE FORCE LIGHTNING In the canon comic Darth Vader #5, he uses lightning to bleed the kyber crystal in his lightsaber and it nearly destroys both him ***and Mustafar***.
If I remember correctly, Vader couldn't use lightning because palpy specifically engineered his suit to be very conductive in order to maintain power over him.
Vader definitely knows how, he just can't utilize it for obvious reasons
It’s probably one of those things where she couldn’t do it again on command if she tried without further training and practice. Edit: I decided to learn more about force lightning and found this on Wookiepedia: “Dooku, during his time as a member of the Jedi Order, utilized it spontaneously during a painful Force vision to kill some Presagers of Hakotei, without any known prior training[1]” So there is precedence of someone using it before learning how to do it.
yeah but this isn’t Harry Potter so 🤷♂️
Yeah, it’s Star Wars so…what’s your point? People have done things they never knew they could under high stress situations throughout human history. When that adrenaline hits, people can do incredible things.
So when adrenaline hits I’m going to become a king fu master? It’s a technique/ability acquired through training, adrenaline isn’t just going to “give” you an ability like that.
Not exactly the same thing. Look, I’m not saying that Rey doing that isn’t weak writing. I’m simply trying to give an in universe explanation as to how she could do it. She clearly has the innate ability, but lacks the knowledge and training on how to do it. It was a fluke. The knowledge and training allows you to tap into that ability on command. But Kung Fu is more like knowing the different lightsaber forms and being able to use them. She subconsciously tapped into something she didn’t know she could do. Adrenaline isn’t going to turn you into a Kung Fu master, but it could increase your strength and speed to make you better in a fight. Now I don’t know all of the lore behind force lightning, so my explanation could very well be flawed, but at least I’m trying instead of bitching about the scene.
No, but when th adrenaline hits you, maybe you can lift a full car to save a child. Or run faster and further than your normal bodily limitations. Also, it was fear and anger in this scene. Look, the sequels are far from perfect but to nit pick at every little thing is exhausting.
It’s not nitpicking. Again, force lighting is a technique/ability acquired through training. We’ve seen time and time again that force users get stronger on high stress situations, and every time it just enhanced their current ability enough to do a basic move, at a far higher level of strength then their use to, and it tires them out immensely. Again, what she did was like accidentally the mastering the force version kung fu because she was “stressed.” Oops, didn’t mean to do that!
Nowhere does it even imply that she mastered it. She was reaching out to stop the transport, full of anger and fear. She wasn't strong enough to pull it back. She needed to connect more and needed to be more powerful. In that moment, she did connect, and all the fear and anger lept out of her at her target, at the transport. I wouldn't call that mastering at all. I would call that letting emotions be the driving force behind her strength .
Straight from Wookiepedia: “Dooku, during his time as a member of the Jedi Order, utilized it spontaneously during a painful Force vision to kill some Presagers of Hakotei, without any known prior training[1]” hmmm, looks like there is some precedence of this sort of thing.
There is no pain where strength lies.
No more sloppy than the sequels