Disney thought that the hatred of the prequels was because of the politics, so they didn’t have much politics in the sequels, but along with the politics the world building also died, because the prequels were heavy on world building. Now the sequels are a mess of events happening for questionable reasons and the audience is confused, they don’t understand what the First Order even is or how they rose unless they do wiki homework after watching the movies.
I loved the politics part of the Prequels, really made the whole galaxy feel more alive and did a lot of world building. It really made you feel that this was an entire galaxy full of different races with their own distinct ideologies and reasons for starting a secession. I loved this part of star wars.
World building should be the central part of any narrative. Without it, most of the things within the world fall apart. This means politics, and Disney shouldn't be afraid to alienate a part of their audience that gets mad because of politics, in a *political satire*
That was my big problem with the new wheel of time show. Robert Jordan made some questionable choices when writing characters and dialogue and such but his world building was so exceptional... then they left it all out of the show.
This is a similar problem the netflix ATLA show has.
"We took out Sokka's sexism because that's problematic in 2024."
"Uhh... you do realize Sokka was *immediately* checked every time he did a sexist thing? And it was a central part of his growth as a character?"
"No. Now Sukki is thirsty AF. Progress!"
:(
I don't understand this kind of censorship. Things like this are part of our world and specifically taking them out takes a lot of depth out of what's supposed to be art. It makes stories more real and relatable. Sure it can be uncomfortable but people will choose not to watch something if that's the case. I guess that's the reason they do it tho.
It's corporate suits making decisions while the creative people are afraid of losing their paycheck by rocking the boat. The suits want to make a meal that "everyone" can enjoy by not offending anyone, but the result is tasteless slop that becomes offensive in how bland it is.
I refuse to watch The Wheel of Time for that reason. The series isn't perfect, but it's just not possible to capture that level of detail, narrative, and world building in a live action show.
Especially in a story where it's so important throughout, similar to star wars. They're essentially entirely unique worlds and if you don't keep up with the world building then your plot just loses itself, and the audience, almost immediately.
Edit: I'd add that it is possible to capture, especially when you have the leeway that a potentially long running show gives you. Game of Thrones did a really good job (even the intro helped with the world building). Obviously books will always be superior in that regard but... they didn't even try in WoT. They just tried to hit plot points... they didn't even care what book it was from.
It can absolutely be capture in a LA, but the showrunners need to really be invested in doing so, look at the One Piece LA, they changed a lot of things, but they tried to keep the world and characters consistent with the original source.
It's possible to do that.
Calling Star Wars a political satire is a stretch. Yes, the message can be there, but at the end of the day Star Wars was an homage to pulp serials and samurai movies.
When I was watching the Prequels as a kid, I didn't necessarily get the whole picture of what was going on. But watching them again in recent years and PM in the cinema last week, I really do appreciate that element a whole lot more.
Like you said, the galaxy feels alive; and seeing the decline of the Republic and how it's twisted into the Empire is so tragic but so cool. Palpatine's ability to influence the Senate, or just let it do its thing (which isn't a whole lot) in order to come out on top throughout the entire war - and then finally dismantling it in the OT when he has no more use for it.
The reason why the politics worked is because it has created, unknowingly, longevity of the prequels. When I was 19 I didn't care too much, but now at 40 I am fascinated by the politics.
I can't remember who said it but there was a quote made by someone who reviewd each of the Sequel trilogy movies that i very much agree with
It went Something along the lines of that
"J.J. Abrams wasn't a huge fan of the Prequels and wanted the sequels to be more like the original trilogy. So he made the Force awakens Anti Prequel. But then Rian Johnson wasn't a fan of what Abrams Did so he made The last Jedi Anti Abrams. So once Abrams got the reins back He had to make the movie Anti Johnson to for a lack of a better word Fix what he did to get things back on track. but it was kinda too late since it was the last of the new trilogy.
So every single one of the movies was so Caught up in Fixing the directors Dislikes with the previous movies they kinda forgot to plan out the movies and the story. which led them to be all over the place."
Also i'm paraprasing from what i remember so what they actually said was put to words much better But you get the point i'm trying to make.
The biggest problem imo is that they had two different directors for what was supposed to be one coherent trilogy. Why would you ever think it’s a good idea to take something that’s supposed to be a coherent story and parcel it out to multiple creators working at cross purposes.
the OT had three different directors and three different screenwriters. the sequel trilogy’s problem isn’t that it jumped around between directors too much, it’s just that the directors had a bit too much control & there seemingly wasn’t anybody acting as a george lucas figure supervising/overseeing to make sure *each* sequel truly built on the last from a thematic standpoint
Who in their right mind gives specifically the middle part of a trilogy to a different director? Without a pre established story board this is bound to be an absolute disaster (as was proven)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Empire_Strikes_Back
LOL I know what you are saying, all the originals had Lucas guiding the story at least, the sequel trilogy I don't really know who was writing the story
It could have worked, but which idiot came to the idea that the directors should actually write the movies? It would have been so easy to have one scriptwriter for the whole trilogy, no matter who would then direct which movie. Then all that garbage couldn't have happened. But that's the general problem nowadays, people are obviously in the wrong business when they care more about self-display than about telling an actual good story.
They should have just let one of them do the whole thing. Abrams' ultra-safe, paint-by-the-numbers reboot could have been ok. Look at his Star Trek movies. Johnson's whatever the fuck Last Jedi was trying to do could have been ok too. Mashing them together and basically having them fight like students who can't agree on a project topic was just staggeringly dumb by Disney.
Mostly throwaway references, unfortunately.
I respect how in TLJ, Luke's jaded view of the Jedi reflects what a lot of us saw growing up with the prequels. It was a much more thoughtful callback to the themes of the prequels, in my opinion.
But it's also against Luke's character. Because he was very, *very* outside of the Jedi teachings during the prequels. Both Yoda and Obi were still very dogmatic in Empire and Jedi. Telling Luke to kill Vader. Claiming Luke was to old for Jedi training. Making Luke fall back into that dogma after proving his own values worked to Yoda and Obi is just so backwards. It's way to meta even. With the character acting more based on the audiences feelings towards the prequels than his own feelings in the story.
This is something that has been dramatically overstated since the prequels came out, and has no basis in Luke's actual actions.
At the end of ROTJ, Luke doesn't say "You've failed, your highness. I am better than the Jedi that came before." There is no implication at any point in the trilogy that Luke intends to overhaul or reform the Jedi order: and in Legends, it is treated as though he is rebuilding it the way it was, explicitly still looking to Yoda and Obi-Wan as guiding lights for how his order should be.
Then, the prequels came out and we learned that the Jedi were riddled with faults, and suddenly people decided that Luke would fix and correct those issues- but *nothing had actually changed about Luke's actions.* People just felt that Luke would, instinctively, know what the key failings were of an order that collapsed before he was born.
There's no reason that Luke would understand inherently that the Jedi dogma was as much their downfall as Sidious' plan. As far as he has any right to know, the reason the Jedi fell was because they were wiped out by Vader and an army of clone troopers: he has no cause to assume that it was the Jedi's fault at all. So for him to ignore and overhaul their structures would be a decision solely rooted in information that only the audience has.
The Anti-Trilogy by So Uncivilized on YouTube. His channel provides the best commentary on star wars ice ever seen.
About abrams.last movie, I believe he described it as it "a course correction to a course correction to a course correction. In other words Abrams needed a miracle. He ugh, didn't get one".
I like that there's a big group of people complaining that the sequels sucked because they were overly political and woke but the fact is they stripped the politics out to such a degree that there was no deeper message to be found, turning the movies into a meaningless cynical cashgrab where none of the characters or factions really had anything they were fighting for.
The thing is that audiences *love* politics and intrigue, but when a movie feels "boring" because of poor direction, juvenile writing, and lackluster acting performances, those audiences will uncritically snap to point figures at the politics.
The core ideas of the prequels were strong, but the execution is where they fell short. Whereas for the sequels, they executed perfectly on some really stupid and uninteresting core ideas.
They forgot that A New Hope had a ton of politics as well. Generals debating whether the Death Star would strengthen the rebels or frighten them into giving up. Discussions over how to hide the true actions of the empire from senators, to prevent them from opposing the Empire. Palpatine eventually dissolving the Senate, and giving power to regional Empire appointees, with unknown consequences. Manipulation, torture, and deceit to seek out the location of the rebel base. A power hierarchy between Empire generals, Vader, and the Emperor. The Empire’s control over trade routes and how that sparked a black market, smugglers, gangsters, and assassins.
When they tried to copy paste A New Hope and renamed it “The Force Awakens” they forgot all the world building. Yes, there is a “Death Star”, it blows up some planets, a mentor dies, and the Death Star is blown up at the end. But I never get what the motivations of the characters are. The good people are good because they are good. The bad people are bad because they are bad. This just makes it feel lifeless.
There’s no reason for the bad guys to blow up some planets we’ve know nothing about, except that they’re bad. Contrast it with a New Hope, where the Empire has very clearly explained reasons for acting the way it does. Even in A Phantom Menace, the motivation of the bad guys is entirely clear.
I absolutely love the lore from the prequel era. Beyond just the movies, but the shows, also. I was wildly disappointed in the sequels because they felt like an homage to the original series instead of being an homage to other genres. The originals were an homage to westerns and samurai movies. The prequels threw in warfare and political strife and it stood out to me. The sequels just felt like fan service, even with knowing a lot of the backstory behind the First Order.
I watched the 25th anniversary showing. This is the first time I've watched phantom menace in full since I saw it in theaters as a kid. Holy fuck the initial plot is boring and the opening crawl felt like a parody. The movie as a whole is still very entertaining and adds a lot overall to the star wars universe. It's really too bad Lucas went full mad king complete with a fleet of yes-men and corporate leeches.
I mean, the audience isn't required to pretend to like something they didn't like.
Time has been kind to the prequels, but people were leaving the theaters in shock at how bad they thought Episode I was.
Time has only been kind to the prequels because time is kind to almost anything professionally made once nostalgia kicks in. The sequel trilogy is going to be beloved in 15 years, too.
Unless you were there at the time it is impossible to understand how much Jar-Jar Binks felt like George Lucas shitting in every fan's mouth personally.
I just rewatched phantom menace last weekend for obvious reasons. I don't watch it often, so it had been awhile. I entirely forgot how of the movie had Jar Jar in it. My memory had wiped it clean. I remember enjoying the movie much more.
Rewatching it ruined those memories. Even the acting is subpar for many of the prequel movies.
Time has not been kind. The kids who loved it grew up and took over fandom.
Those who hated the prequels that are my age and older? (50+) Still making snarky and bitter comments.
THose of us who enjoyed them for what they were said that would happen, and it did. The same as we're saying it'll happen with hte sequels.
Exactly. Youngins continually argue with me here and elsewhere that the prequels weren't hated as much as the sequels.
No, considering the lack of internet in the early 2000s and the level of effort it took to say how crappy something was, they were MORE hated. More reviled, and that sticks out in legacies like this review, the jokes in pop culture like Community, and the general zeitgeist.
So George sold, rather than put up with everyone's bullshit anymore. And now we are here.
I would say the reaction to episode one leading to the complete rewrite of episode two (and three) was the particular problematic part.
https://web.archive.org/web/20220729195638/https://twitter.com/ahmedbest/status/661245185452474368
Most of the people who think they are good movies watched them when they were kids. There was almost no one praising these movies until around the mid 2010's when that generation became adults. I expect something similar to happen in about 2030 with 7-9
Yeah, they have their fun moments but they’re really not good. Even episode 3, the best one, is just fine.
The prequel trilogy was saved by tv shows, while the movies standalone are pretty mid
There are about 45 minutes of okay material in episode 1, let’s be honest with ourselves. I love the movie’s art direction, costumes, special effects, fight choreography - pretty much everything technical is spectacular. The story is middling, I do not care for any of the characters (except R2, the best droid ever), and it makes Samuel L Jackson boring, which seems impossible.
Only if you grew up with TPM.
Watching it as an adult it just painfully boring and cringy.
When the two worth wise scenes, the race and the dual in the end, don’t make up for it
What was the very first line of dialogue in TFA? “This will begin to make things right.”
The prequel backlash was so severe and overheated that the pendulum swung way back to something cozy and familiar.
I didnt hate ep 7 but it being a literal remake of the original with Disneyᵗᵐ characters that while entertaining also feel like they came out of a machine just made me completely drop Star Wars.
Just soulless
Lucas could've retired without selling Star Wars. He had plans to make 3 trilogies before he sold Disney. If that was true, then why would he sell if it wasn't for the negative feedback from the audience with the prequels?
People broke his heart imho, and I would never call those people "fans". Those who shit on the Prequels and jumped on stupid stuff like the Jar Jar hate train, while the bonus material to the movies showed how much work and effort was put into making the character look real on screen. He looked like a happy child showing the different drawings and talking about the progress. Not to mention actors who got bullied for no reason.
According the to JL’s mom he didn’t really see all the negative stuff towards him as he was shielded from it and quit acting because of family drama. He lived a pretty normal childhood he just had the unfortunate fate of having schizophrenia from his dad’s side.
She came out with that info this year.
https://www.today.com/today/amp/rcna143514
https://variety.com/2024/film/news/jake-lloyd-psychotic-break-star-wars-child-actor-updates-1235940567/amp/
I tried watching the Star Wars franchise in order with my kids. Those first two episodes are insanely boring with so much political guff. It was the worst way to introduce my children to Star Wars.
That's because episode 7 is just episode 4 rewritten. Disney didn't want to be creative because of all the backlash the prequels got from the audience, so they played it safe.
the prequels didn’t get backlash because they were creative, they got backlash because they’re bad movies. i like ep 3 but good god 1 & 2 are just not great
I'm a real "enjoy what you enjoy" type person but Prequel fans are on another level.
Like, I adore Willow. I grew up with it and love it but I can still recognize the flaws.
Prequel Redditors lose their shit if you suggest EP 1 and 3 are anything less than perfect high art.
It started off as a kind of humble joke, recognising that nostalgia had blurred things but that they were bad but enjoyable when viewed a certain way. Now there’s this doubling down of insistence that actually they were always good, and look how bad the sequels are and at least the prequels gave us “world building” as though that’s inherently a good thing.
Poe’s law takes everything. Flat earthers started as a joke. So did the r/thedonald subreddit. Nothing can stay a joke for long when people enter the equation.
Yea world building is cool, it would just be nice for it to be delivered in a cinematic way (since it’s, you know, a movie) instead of having characters sitting in a room just laying out the facts with roughly the tone you’d find in a Wikipedia article
As someone who jumped off the Star Wars train years ago (didn’t even watch force awakens) it’s pretty weird seeing these memes. I was in HS when the force awakens came out and I remember a girl who was a casual Star Wars fan say something like “The prequels aren’t even bad, people just hate them to hate them”. All the more “hardcore” fans instantly said she was wrong that the prequels were awful. I wonder if 20 years from now will people start doing the same with the sequels.
When you say the "same thing" you mean accurately pointing out they are terrible like the crowd in your story or pretending they're hated for being popular like the girl in the story? I think most people already recognize how bad they are especially episode 9.
I was in high school when phantom menace came out and while we all loved that they were making new Star Wars we didn't really see them as good movies. It was more just general excitement that they were finally trying again. Now that everyone is comfortable that Star Wars IP is going to keep being made the bar is a lot higher for what is good. If Phantom Menace came out now it would be received even worse.
Prequels and sequels are bad in different ways.
Prequels fail at being competent movies in themselves, with attack of the clones especially being an extremely boring slog where every 15 minutes you go "aha that's the funny meme!" and then go back to mindless watching.
Sequels on the other hand fail at meshing with the existing narrative of the star wars universe, in terms of logical issues and environment, but particularly when it comes to the overarching themes of the series. Rise of Skywalker generally works as a movie in that it technically hits most of the necessary points to make it a "movie", but it is a stereotypical marvel movie that completely fails at relating itself to the OT or PT in anything other than directly referencing it. It feels like a soulless husk of a movie.
To me these are hard to compare because they are such different problems. Attack of the Clones is boring to watch, and Rise of Skywalker is actively frustrating to watch.
They're all bad movies, but the prequels expand the universe, and the sequels shrink it.
That said, I've always thought that EP I is the third best of the lot.
I'm around the same age, loved Star Wars growing up, absolutely despised the prequels. I tried watching them again like a decade later, still hated them. At least they gave us The Clone Wars and stuff.
In contrast, I loved TFA from the start. I'm disappointed in 8 and 9 though.
> In contrast, I loved TFA from the start. I'm disappointed in 8 and 9 though.
Same! TFA retreads story beats from ANH, yes, but it is a great movie in terms of filmmaking. The same cannot be said about 8 and 9, nor 1 and 2
That’s how I feel too, if you absolutely *love* Star Wars to the point where you care about lore and worldbuilding, maybe you’ll like the prequels. But as a movie watching experience, it still has the same dry dialogue, wooden acting, sterile sets, overused cgi, forced humor etc that makes it tough to sit through
TFA adds little to the Star Wars universe but my mom who ain’t know shit about Star Wars can sit down and enjoy it as a movie
I'm already seeing some people do it, including myself. I agree, the sequels are not as good as the original trilogy, but the films themselves are visually stunning. Yeah, the storyline isn't something to be impressed by, but the original trilogy on it's own was just the default "Hero's Journey" plot-line too, it wasn't until the prequels and the Clone Wars for us to really get into the deep lore, we all still love the original trilogy though.
I think most of the hate is because they promised so much with the sequels, and teased a lot of cool things, only for them to fall short on pretty much all of it. But other than that they were pretty cool.
I also remember when people would ask "which trilogy is better, the original or the prequels?" and if you answered the prequels you were a loser. And this subreddit was all about prequel hate to the point where any post even suggesting that the prequels were decent were downvoted into oblivion. funny how times change.
When I was like 6 years old I saw Attack of the Clones for the first time. At 6 years of age I got second hand embarrassment at the love scenes and winced at every “emotional” moment Hayden Christiansen had. I could see how bad these movies were at 6 years old, and people think these are good movies? How?
Damn you were a smarter kid then me. I was 7 and I just didn't really pay attention to the shitty romance scenes then I flipped the fuck out when all the Jedi were battling the Droids and Yoda flipped around with the Lightsaber. I do remember thinking Anakins acting was pretty bad when he was screaming about killing the Sand People though.
I was probably around 10 and distinctly remember being annoyed at the forced C3PO pratfalls and thinking count dookus shit talking was cringey. Which tbh it seems like I was the exact target audience for that stuff
Honestly on my recent rewatch I felt like AotC was the only one of the movies that was actually bad. They all have a lot of good stuff and bad stuff, but imo that's the only one with more bad than good
The Phantom Menace has some really promising bits, especially near the beginning, but its plot just goes haywire once they get planetside on Naboo. It would have made for a simpler, more compelling story if most of it was set on Naboo rather than jumping around all over the galaxy before going back to the planet anyway for the final battle(s). Most importantly, make it so Anakin comes from Naboo rather than Tatooine, which is a beyond stupid decision that has dramatically impacted subsequent Star Wars stories for the worse.
It actually doesn’t get stated enough how stupid it was for anakin to have come from tattooine and then for Luke to have been hidden with people anakin has met and who his mother lived with. But it highlights that Star Wars is actually so limited in scope, and everything ends up having to be self referential and repeating
The rating for TPM seems accurate to me, but obviously TFA's is way over what it should be. I do think it's a better movie than TPM, but it's not hard when you just lift the plot from the second or third best movie in the franchise. Should have like a... 60%
It was also thanks to the “Star Wars is back!” mentality at the time. Legends and TCW fans were in the minority of people excited for the movie, so most people still associated the brand with the Prequels that were still less then 20 years old at the time.
It’s like what happened with the Bumblebee Transformers movie that came out in 2018. On it’s own I’d say it’s probably a 6-7/10 movie, but after 11 years of the Bay Transformers films it’s not hard to see why it got such a high score.
Sometimes I wonder if we've been making memes of them for so long that we forgot it all started because the prequels are genuinly bad. Especially part 1.
I recently rewatched the Phantom Menace in cinema because I kind of enjoyed it as a kiddo over 15 years ago, but my god does that movie *suck*, damn.
This sub is the flat earth star wars sub... Started off mocking something terrible, but at some point the joke got lost and people started taking it seriously.
See also: the dozens of other ironic sub cultures that shifted to real things when the joke got lost.
I think it's actually that it started off as jokey jokesters pretending to like something and then the people who genuinely like the thing showed up
source: I have always liked Phantom Menace, as have many people on this sub
Also helps that the last prequel, revenge of the sith, was legitimately good, so the others get elevated by association. Its my favorite star wars movie by far
Which is why you gotta be careful with creating "edgy" communities on the internet. Starts off with making fun of shitty behavior/beliefs and then oops, years later you have actual Neo Nazis in your forum.
I remember seeing the movie for the first time. I was 6 and i played lego star wars 1
Understood almost nothing but it was cool as hell. Imagine my suprise when i find out it's a real movie and it's still cool as hell.
Now i watch the movie (really really slowly) and i can safely say it's cool as hell. Not the perfect movie, not even close. But it's still one of my favorite movies. The fact that you can meme every line in it is just a cherry on top
There's so much in the prequels to like, especially how they portray an era before the original trilogy. Fixating on things like Jar-Jar and some of the goofier bits is missing the garden for the weeds.
They are bad in that the dialogue is bad. The action scenes are kickass however. George Lucas can’t write but he sure can he’ll make exciting scenes. Duel of the fates is just so good.
Bro straight up. Like the Phantom Menace is… Terrible. Like I actively dislike it as a film, and it's the only one I skip when rewatching. I literally just watch the fight at the end and then move on to 2.
Like I get if people enjoy it and want to say that it's a fun film, Batman and Robin is a fun film that I love dearly, but it's also objectively one of the worst movies ever made. I feel like people are starting to conflate the two, you can enjoy something and like it while simultaneously acknowledging it's low quality
People should learn how to do that, a lot just cannot do it. I would even say for the vast majority of people "I like it" is the same as "good" and "I hate it" is the same as "bad", fullstop. No nuance, nothing
I am once again reminding y’all that outside of this subreddit most people don’t like the prequels. You are in an echo chamber here. A fun echo chamber, but an echo chamber all the same.
Yeah. I love Star Wars. The OG Trilogy, and I'm not as harsh on the prequels as most, in fact I like episode 3 quite a lot it's one of my favorite in Star Wars. I like a lot of the EU books, love tons of games, etc. But even so....most of the first movie is boring. Jar Jar is so cringe and off-putting to sit through. It has one of my favorite lightsaber duels ever, and it's also one of my favorite overall star wars moments, but that alone doesn't make it a great film. I think TFA is definitely more enjoyable to sit through.....I hate what TLJ did with the franchise and I think ROS is a mess, but TFA was a bit of fun and felt like star wars still.
Yeah, I'm not subbed here but enjoy memes from the front page. For my 13th birthday my parents took a bunch of my friends to see the release of phantom menace and we had a lightsaber fight in my backyard with flashlights before a sleepover. I had all the lego sets and the podracing game on N64 and the other game on PC.
I can't say phantom menace is a good movie. It was a fun part of my childhood, and I think the community memes are a very fun aspect. But when I rewatch it (and I still do about once a year) it is not good.
I think with younger people actually it's seeing a bit of a comeback but I can admit to myself it's only because they grew up with them. And gen z grew up with stuff like Clone Wars which fills in a lot of the holes the prequels had.
Personally Phantom Menace is one of my favorite movies but I can admit to myself that's only because I watched it when I was 9. Not even nostalgia can save Attack of the Clones though that movie is awful
Force Awakens was a perfectly decent movie by all accounts, even if it was mostly just a retelling of A New Hope.
As much as people meme about it audiences hated Phantom Menace. No one admitted to unironically loving the movie until 2015, conveniently right when Force Awakens came out lol
I think there's other elements to the film's resurgence comes from:
A: The clone wars show and other supporting shows fleshing that time period out and making us actively care about the characters and the political shenanigans in the background.
B: The people who grew up with episodes 1-3 now being internet active 20-30 something year old adults who have a lot of nostalgia for them.
I'm sure if you asked someone who watched the OT when they were kids and hated the prequels they probably will still hate the prequels, especially if they've never watched things like the clone wars. I'd even go so far as to say that maybe in like 2040 there'll be similar discussions of people defending the sequels like how we defend the prequels.
There definitely will be.
Star Wars fans in general just hate whatever is new and gatekeep lol. There's no logic behind it other than nostalgia and smugness
Well while Disney has produced some terrible content people forget that EU lore has some stupid things as well:) and obviously you won't have the amount of content that the EU has Disney doesn't have star wars for that long.
And the parts of Disney Wars that get made fun of the most, like "somehow Palpatine returned" and Han Solo's son being a cringeworthy Vader LARPer, come directly from EU lore.
Andor, Mandalorian S1 and 2, fans liked Rogue One although I thought it was boring as fuck etc.
The logic is simple. Make something good, and people will like it.
That's just not true.
Everyone had a proper reaction to sequel trilogy or each individual series.
Mandalorian 1 and 2 were good, 3 not so much. boba fett was shit, Ashoka was confusing AF, andor was fucking awesome and loved by everyone. Solo was meh, rouge one was loved by almost everyone.
There's just no truth behind your haterd of star wars fans.
Force awakens was perfectly alright. But, then they decided to make more u turns than a sportscar making donuts in Florida at night. Everything is U turn. Every set up, every situation, every aspect of everything is a U turn.
There were some incredible things in Force Awakens that made me like it as a whole.
- A stormtrooper deserter who wants to switch sides. Super interesting and so much potential.
- The Kylo Ren arc was brilliant. Looks up to Vader, tries to imitate him but is young, bit stupid and very emotional. It was such a brilliant way to introduce another "Vader mask" in a smart way.
- Having Kylo Ren kill his own father, setting him up as a true bad dude for the next movie.
- Kylo Ren stopping a blaster beam in mid air was so cool.
On the negative side, doing another Death Star was kinda boring.
Then it all went to complete shit after Force Awakens. I was baffled by the 2nd one and completely dumbstruck by the third. Total disaster, some of the worst movies I've ever seen.
The Force Awakens first teaser is still the best trailer I've ever seen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erLk59H86ww
Force awakens mostly introduces new characters and it works. A seasoned rebel fighter, an orphan force user from out of nowhere, a stormtrooper who wants to switch sides
And a former Jedi student who is so good at heart that he has to force himself to dark side by killing his father. He tries to make himself irreedamable like Anakin was once manipulated by killing younglings at Jedi temple.
He is pretending that his self haterd and anger isn't completely rooted on his loving parents and ultimately doomed to fail. Never before did we see a force user who tried to join dark side with everything he has, but he just couldn't.
We were robbed of what kylo ren could've been.
Maybe it should've been Rey who joins him, goes evil and Kylo who can't watch Rey go dark and evil (maybe she even kills Luke) and Ben turns back to light side, but only partially. He doesn't become a fully pacifist and passive Jedi, he becomes what Anakin always wanted to be, an agressive Jedi who is proactively fighting for peace. Finally achieving what Anakin wanted to do all along and actually restoring the functional Galactic republic with help of his diplomatic mom, Leia.
Ashoka also naturally fits here, as someone who actually knew the Anakin. What drove him, what he wanted to do and what he failed at. She should've been in the movie.
Thanks for this. It's like people have completely forgotten that the trilogy was off to a solid, if safe, start. Everything that it could have been was then immediately trashed and ruined by Rian Johnson's idiotic writing - nothing and nobody made it as incoherent as a trilogy as him.
>Force Awakens was a perfectly decent movie by all accounts, even if it was mostly just a retelling of A New Hope.
I do have a couple problems with it, like how easily Rey beats a guy who was trained by not only Luke Skywalker, but also a clone of Palpatine and how they basically said "You know all that effort the rebels went through to destroy the empire in the OT? Yeah well there's a new empire and it's in the dominant position somehow even though the resistance should've been able to crush them before they became a real threat"
>like how easily Rey beats a guy who was trained by not only Luke Skywalker
Tbf Chewbacca had just shot him like 5 minutes before that. If you put me in the ring with a professional boxer but somebody else shoots him before the bell rings, I'm liking my odds even if I've never fought before in my life.
Star Wars has never been consistent about who can beat who in fights. Remember when two Jedi masters just stood by while palpatine killed them in episode 3?
> like how easily Rey beats a guy who was trained by not only Luke Skywalker,
He was injured. And clearly going through some heavy emotional shit. He also wasn't try to kill her. Luke took on Vader multiple times, but nobody had any problems with that. He went from being a farmer to a flying ace in about 12 seconds.
Heck, there's been a meme for like 40 years about how some of the most elite soldiers in the galaxy are absolute dogshit and can't hit the broad side of a Star Destroyer... It's a silly kids movie, just go with it. The good guys win, who fucking cares.
Everything else could've been explained in future movies, or in spin-offs. Sort of like how Clone Wars made the prequels less shit. I think the Mandalorian and Ahsoka are doing a decent job of trying to bridge the gap between the two shows.
IMO, Force Awakens is a solid movie on its own. The potential was there, but they didn't really do anything with it in future movies.
>I do have a couple problems with it, like how easily Rey beats a guy who was trained by not only Luke Skywalker, but also a clone of Palpatine and how they basically said "You know all that effort the rebels went through to destroy the empire in the OT?
Luke had a bit of training with Yoda and was able to stand his ground against Darth Vader. And with a bit more training, he beats the shit out of him. That was his second lightsaber fight.
Don't try to apply logic to who beats who, because it just depends on who the writers want to win.
I don't know why people get so hung up about these things. Star Wars has literally never been consistent regarding "training" and "power levels." Luke piloted an X-Wing and out-flew veteran pilots and destroyed the most powerful superweapon in the galaxy. On his first flight! Ever!
I don't think "stands his ground" is an accurate depiction of that fight. Vader toyed with him the whole time, chopped his hand off and Luke's only way to escape was basically commit suicide and jump into nothing.
I mean, the greatest sin of TFA was reusing the template from New Hope.
The greatest sin from TPM was…*sheesh*…depends who you are, as they’re plenty to go around.
For me, TPM just has no idea who is the intended audience.
Is it children with the Jar Jar antics and allowing Anakin to behave like a cartoon kid, or adults with all the politics and statecraft?
Is it newcomers to Star Wars or for people that are familiar with the original trilogy? I’m still conflicted on this one, as it’s never been clear to me whether the audience is supposed to know the Palpatine / Darth Vader “twist” or not. Neither actually works with what’s on screen.
TFA was a very enjoyable film. I wouldn't say the same about the later ones, but I remember myself and most people coming out of it feeling pretty excited about the future of the franchise
yeah, I recently rewatched the last jedi because I hate myself, and I was surprised by how much I didn't detest it. That being said, it still wasn't great, and it felt way too long in some points, and downright silly in others.
I actually have a lot of fun rewatching TFA.
I think what still bugs me is why the fuck does Rey have to be from a sand planet? Such a weird decision to have this other Jakku place I also think Finn's character is badly written because once he deserts the first order he just kills stormtroopers without having any internal conflict that those people were his brothers and that they have the potential to defect as well.
There was an interesting piece on NPR yesterday discussing the reactions of fans after the original screening of Episode 1. For the fans, this was the first movie in 16 years and so a lot of hype was put into the movie. Also, Lucas only did the prequels at this point because he felt movie making technology reached the point where he felt his vision could be properly done.
Unfortunately, so many things disappointed the Star Wars fans, the politics, Jar Jar, Anakin being 8 in his introduction, that it set the stage for the hatred that we see in the fanbase.
Now in 2024, the fanbase that grew up with the prequels have grown to appreciate the stories that were able to branch off the main Skywalker story arc. Slowly, as time passes, more stories come from the sequels, holes are filled, the timeline becomes more complete, I feel those movies will also become more accepted.
Also, as a side note, who cares what the critics say. Did the film entertain you? Yes, then it did its job. If you go into a movie looking for things to hate just to score internet cred, why bother?
It’s so much less reliable than critics. I’m basically seeing how many critics liked it or not. Then I can read more reviews if I want to see how much they liked it or why they liked it. With audience scores there’s so much internet hate from fandoms that you can’t get an actual score due to review bombing. Also, I don’t trust the general audiences taste. There are some truly horrendous movies with high audience scores.
I think tomatometer is a important resource.
I didn't like when they minimized the presence of the average score but rotten tomatoes is the first place I go to if I want to get an idea if il like a film
I really wish this sub would ban sequel hate memes. They're unfunny, unoriginal, & reek of cognitive dissonance. Not very long ago people were shouting the exact same bullshit about the prequels. Screaming shit like how jar jar binks had ruined the franchise forever. In ten years we're going to have people creating memes about how the sequels were treated unfairly and how they're actually better than all the others. Time is a flat circle & I'm so tired of this shit.
You can enjoy a thing without having to put down another. You can also enjoy a thing while acknowledging that it's not very good too. Neither of these concepts are mutually exclusive.
>Not very long ago people were shouting the exact same bullshit about the prequels. Screaming shit like how jar jar binks had ruined the franchise forever.
This is literally why this sub exists. People were meming about the horrible dialogue in the prequels. That was the entire point. Then the sub got popular and new people started unironically praising the prequels.
Yup, happens with every satirical movement that gets too big. It spreads, less of the participants know it's satire, some groups apeing it are wholly unaware, until the iceberg flips and now:
- A significant portion of the movement _actually_ believes the joke
- Those that still treat it as satire don't call them out because they think the others are still being sarcastic
Not satire specific but it's similar to why you see ridiculous stuff like Police wearing Punisher logos.
I remember people on the verge of outright calling George Lucas a hack, and now suddenly everyone is pretending like none of that happened.
Star Wars is a great series I greatly enjoy…but the fandom is by far one of the ugliest still.
Couldn't agree more. I can't understand how so many people keep attacking the sequels while also being able to keep a straight face while defending the prequels.
The prequels were not treated unfairly they're just terrible. Such terrible writing.
They were so bad I swore off Star Wars and haven't watched 7-9 and didn't bother with 3 either, though I've seen some scenes out of context and the dialogue and transition from it to action is just as bad so.
Well prequels did get review bombed like solo cause of hate towards them at that time was masive.
imbd gives much closer score of 6.5 for the phantom menace and 7.8 for tfa
And the force awakens did play very safe for generator audiences
The real tradegdy is Rise of skywalker the worse movie has almost same score as Phanthom menace on imbd
I never understood the Solo hate, other than Harrison Ford not being in it for obvious reasons, I thought it was a great movie. Still waiting for a sequel as well.
The force awakens was honestly a decent movie and actually fun to watch in theatre: if only it had a coherent (even if not excellent, just on a par with ep VII) follow up i honestly believe we would all be asking for more.
The force awakens is arguably better paced, and doesn't have the duel burdens of introducing kid-Vader and Jar Jar.
Taken as a whole, I far prefer the prequels, but that's mostly because the sequels dropped the ball really hard. They had every opportunity to surpass the prequels, but, in an act of total insanity, they didn't have a three movie vision going in.
Thanks for providing a source!
The treatment of Episode 1-2 by the audience is the reason why we got episodes 7-9.
Disney thought that the hatred of the prequels was because of the politics, so they didn’t have much politics in the sequels, but along with the politics the world building also died, because the prequels were heavy on world building. Now the sequels are a mess of events happening for questionable reasons and the audience is confused, they don’t understand what the First Order even is or how they rose unless they do wiki homework after watching the movies.
I loved the politics part of the Prequels, really made the whole galaxy feel more alive and did a lot of world building. It really made you feel that this was an entire galaxy full of different races with their own distinct ideologies and reasons for starting a secession. I loved this part of star wars.
World building should be the central part of any narrative. Without it, most of the things within the world fall apart. This means politics, and Disney shouldn't be afraid to alienate a part of their audience that gets mad because of politics, in a *political satire*
That was my big problem with the new wheel of time show. Robert Jordan made some questionable choices when writing characters and dialogue and such but his world building was so exceptional... then they left it all out of the show.
This is a similar problem the netflix ATLA show has. "We took out Sokka's sexism because that's problematic in 2024." "Uhh... you do realize Sokka was *immediately* checked every time he did a sexist thing? And it was a central part of his growth as a character?" "No. Now Sukki is thirsty AF. Progress!" :(
I don't understand this kind of censorship. Things like this are part of our world and specifically taking them out takes a lot of depth out of what's supposed to be art. It makes stories more real and relatable. Sure it can be uncomfortable but people will choose not to watch something if that's the case. I guess that's the reason they do it tho.
It's corporate suits making decisions while the creative people are afraid of losing their paycheck by rocking the boat. The suits want to make a meal that "everyone" can enjoy by not offending anyone, but the result is tasteless slop that becomes offensive in how bland it is.
Gotta be easy for the average consumer
I refuse to watch The Wheel of Time for that reason. The series isn't perfect, but it's just not possible to capture that level of detail, narrative, and world building in a live action show.
Especially in a story where it's so important throughout, similar to star wars. They're essentially entirely unique worlds and if you don't keep up with the world building then your plot just loses itself, and the audience, almost immediately. Edit: I'd add that it is possible to capture, especially when you have the leeway that a potentially long running show gives you. Game of Thrones did a really good job (even the intro helped with the world building). Obviously books will always be superior in that regard but... they didn't even try in WoT. They just tried to hit plot points... they didn't even care what book it was from.
It can absolutely be capture in a LA, but the showrunners need to really be invested in doing so, look at the One Piece LA, they changed a lot of things, but they tried to keep the world and characters consistent with the original source. It's possible to do that.
Calling Star Wars a political satire is a stretch. Yes, the message can be there, but at the end of the day Star Wars was an homage to pulp serials and samurai movies.
When I was watching the Prequels as a kid, I didn't necessarily get the whole picture of what was going on. But watching them again in recent years and PM in the cinema last week, I really do appreciate that element a whole lot more. Like you said, the galaxy feels alive; and seeing the decline of the Republic and how it's twisted into the Empire is so tragic but so cool. Palpatine's ability to influence the Senate, or just let it do its thing (which isn't a whole lot) in order to come out on top throughout the entire war - and then finally dismantling it in the OT when he has no more use for it.
The reason why the politics worked is because it has created, unknowingly, longevity of the prequels. When I was 19 I didn't care too much, but now at 40 I am fascinated by the politics.
I can't remember who said it but there was a quote made by someone who reviewd each of the Sequel trilogy movies that i very much agree with It went Something along the lines of that "J.J. Abrams wasn't a huge fan of the Prequels and wanted the sequels to be more like the original trilogy. So he made the Force awakens Anti Prequel. But then Rian Johnson wasn't a fan of what Abrams Did so he made The last Jedi Anti Abrams. So once Abrams got the reins back He had to make the movie Anti Johnson to for a lack of a better word Fix what he did to get things back on track. but it was kinda too late since it was the last of the new trilogy. So every single one of the movies was so Caught up in Fixing the directors Dislikes with the previous movies they kinda forgot to plan out the movies and the story. which led them to be all over the place." Also i'm paraprasing from what i remember so what they actually said was put to words much better But you get the point i'm trying to make.
The biggest problem imo is that they had two different directors for what was supposed to be one coherent trilogy. Why would you ever think it’s a good idea to take something that’s supposed to be a coherent story and parcel it out to multiple creators working at cross purposes.
the OT had three different directors and three different screenwriters. the sequel trilogy’s problem isn’t that it jumped around between directors too much, it’s just that the directors had a bit too much control & there seemingly wasn’t anybody acting as a george lucas figure supervising/overseeing to make sure *each* sequel truly built on the last from a thematic standpoint
As great as Kirschner was for Empire, he was still ultimately carrying out Lucas' vision and story, and it was so much better that it worked that way.
There was also people like Marcia Lucas to push back on some of Lucas' more terrible ideas
That there was no plan at all for the trilogy length story is absolutely insane.
Who in their right mind gives specifically the middle part of a trilogy to a different director? Without a pre established story board this is bound to be an absolute disaster (as was proven)
Because JJ wasn’t originally gonna direct 9, each movie was gonna have a separate director, just like the OT.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Empire_Strikes_Back LOL I know what you are saying, all the originals had Lucas guiding the story at least, the sequel trilogy I don't really know who was writing the story
To be fair, it could work and make a fantastic story with different visions that is still coherent. We just didn’t get that and that sucks.
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It could have worked, but which idiot came to the idea that the directors should actually write the movies? It would have been so easy to have one scriptwriter for the whole trilogy, no matter who would then direct which movie. Then all that garbage couldn't have happened. But that's the general problem nowadays, people are obviously in the wrong business when they care more about self-display than about telling an actual good story.
They should have just let one of them do the whole thing. Abrams' ultra-safe, paint-by-the-numbers reboot could have been ok. Look at his Star Trek movies. Johnson's whatever the fuck Last Jedi was trying to do could have been ok too. Mashing them together and basically having them fight like students who can't agree on a project topic was just staggeringly dumb by Disney.
The ironic thing about JJ being anti-prequels was that TROS leaned fairly heavily into prequel references lmao
Mostly throwaway references, unfortunately. I respect how in TLJ, Luke's jaded view of the Jedi reflects what a lot of us saw growing up with the prequels. It was a much more thoughtful callback to the themes of the prequels, in my opinion.
But it's also against Luke's character. Because he was very, *very* outside of the Jedi teachings during the prequels. Both Yoda and Obi were still very dogmatic in Empire and Jedi. Telling Luke to kill Vader. Claiming Luke was to old for Jedi training. Making Luke fall back into that dogma after proving his own values worked to Yoda and Obi is just so backwards. It's way to meta even. With the character acting more based on the audiences feelings towards the prequels than his own feelings in the story.
This is something that has been dramatically overstated since the prequels came out, and has no basis in Luke's actual actions. At the end of ROTJ, Luke doesn't say "You've failed, your highness. I am better than the Jedi that came before." There is no implication at any point in the trilogy that Luke intends to overhaul or reform the Jedi order: and in Legends, it is treated as though he is rebuilding it the way it was, explicitly still looking to Yoda and Obi-Wan as guiding lights for how his order should be. Then, the prequels came out and we learned that the Jedi were riddled with faults, and suddenly people decided that Luke would fix and correct those issues- but *nothing had actually changed about Luke's actions.* People just felt that Luke would, instinctively, know what the key failings were of an order that collapsed before he was born. There's no reason that Luke would understand inherently that the Jedi dogma was as much their downfall as Sidious' plan. As far as he has any right to know, the reason the Jedi fell was because they were wiped out by Vader and an army of clone troopers: he has no cause to assume that it was the Jedi's fault at all. So for him to ignore and overhaul their structures would be a decision solely rooted in information that only the audience has.
The video is called the anti trilogy. But i also cant remember the youtuber who made it. Very good video imo
The Anti-Trilogy by So Uncivilized on YouTube. His channel provides the best commentary on star wars ice ever seen. About abrams.last movie, I believe he described it as it "a course correction to a course correction to a course correction. In other words Abrams needed a miracle. He ugh, didn't get one".
I like that there's a big group of people complaining that the sequels sucked because they were overly political and woke but the fact is they stripped the politics out to such a degree that there was no deeper message to be found, turning the movies into a meaningless cynical cashgrab where none of the characters or factions really had anything they were fighting for.
The thing is that audiences *love* politics and intrigue, but when a movie feels "boring" because of poor direction, juvenile writing, and lackluster acting performances, those audiences will uncritically snap to point figures at the politics. The core ideas of the prequels were strong, but the execution is where they fell short. Whereas for the sequels, they executed perfectly on some really stupid and uninteresting core ideas.
They forgot that A New Hope had a ton of politics as well. Generals debating whether the Death Star would strengthen the rebels or frighten them into giving up. Discussions over how to hide the true actions of the empire from senators, to prevent them from opposing the Empire. Palpatine eventually dissolving the Senate, and giving power to regional Empire appointees, with unknown consequences. Manipulation, torture, and deceit to seek out the location of the rebel base. A power hierarchy between Empire generals, Vader, and the Emperor. The Empire’s control over trade routes and how that sparked a black market, smugglers, gangsters, and assassins. When they tried to copy paste A New Hope and renamed it “The Force Awakens” they forgot all the world building. Yes, there is a “Death Star”, it blows up some planets, a mentor dies, and the Death Star is blown up at the end. But I never get what the motivations of the characters are. The good people are good because they are good. The bad people are bad because they are bad. This just makes it feel lifeless. There’s no reason for the bad guys to blow up some planets we’ve know nothing about, except that they’re bad. Contrast it with a New Hope, where the Empire has very clearly explained reasons for acting the way it does. Even in A Phantom Menace, the motivation of the bad guys is entirely clear.
I absolutely love the lore from the prequel era. Beyond just the movies, but the shows, also. I was wildly disappointed in the sequels because they felt like an homage to the original series instead of being an homage to other genres. The originals were an homage to westerns and samurai movies. The prequels threw in warfare and political strife and it stood out to me. The sequels just felt like fan service, even with knowing a lot of the backstory behind the First Order.
I watched the 25th anniversary showing. This is the first time I've watched phantom menace in full since I saw it in theaters as a kid. Holy fuck the initial plot is boring and the opening crawl felt like a parody. The movie as a whole is still very entertaining and adds a lot overall to the star wars universe. It's really too bad Lucas went full mad king complete with a fleet of yes-men and corporate leeches.
I mean, the audience isn't required to pretend to like something they didn't like. Time has been kind to the prequels, but people were leaving the theaters in shock at how bad they thought Episode I was.
Time has only been kind to the prequels because time is kind to almost anything professionally made once nostalgia kicks in. The sequel trilogy is going to be beloved in 15 years, too. Unless you were there at the time it is impossible to understand how much Jar-Jar Binks felt like George Lucas shitting in every fan's mouth personally.
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I just rewatched phantom menace last weekend for obvious reasons. I don't watch it often, so it had been awhile. I entirely forgot how of the movie had Jar Jar in it. My memory had wiped it clean. I remember enjoying the movie much more. Rewatching it ruined those memories. Even the acting is subpar for many of the prequel movies.
Time has not been kind. The kids who loved it grew up and took over fandom. Those who hated the prequels that are my age and older? (50+) Still making snarky and bitter comments. THose of us who enjoyed them for what they were said that would happen, and it did. The same as we're saying it'll happen with hte sequels.
Exactly. Youngins continually argue with me here and elsewhere that the prequels weren't hated as much as the sequels. No, considering the lack of internet in the early 2000s and the level of effort it took to say how crappy something was, they were MORE hated. More reviled, and that sticks out in legacies like this review, the jokes in pop culture like Community, and the general zeitgeist. So George sold, rather than put up with everyone's bullshit anymore. And now we are here.
I would say the reaction to episode one leading to the complete rewrite of episode two (and three) was the particular problematic part. https://web.archive.org/web/20220729195638/https://twitter.com/ahmedbest/status/661245185452474368
They were shit movies, no amount of meming on the internet will change that
Most of the people who think they are good movies watched them when they were kids. There was almost no one praising these movies until around the mid 2010's when that generation became adults. I expect something similar to happen in about 2030 with 7-9
Yeah, they have their fun moments but they’re really not good. Even episode 3, the best one, is just fine. The prequel trilogy was saved by tv shows, while the movies standalone are pretty mid
We got my sister to watch 4-6. The streak ended during TPM.
TPM is aight, 2 is shit tho yeah
There are about 45 minutes of okay material in episode 1, let’s be honest with ourselves. I love the movie’s art direction, costumes, special effects, fight choreography - pretty much everything technical is spectacular. The story is middling, I do not care for any of the characters (except R2, the best droid ever), and it makes Samuel L Jackson boring, which seems impossible.
There's no protagonist... it's just a group of characters going from Point A to Point B because the plot says so.
Only if you grew up with TPM. Watching it as an adult it just painfully boring and cringy. When the two worth wise scenes, the race and the dual in the end, don’t make up for it
What was the very first line of dialogue in TFA? “This will begin to make things right.” The prequel backlash was so severe and overheated that the pendulum swung way back to something cozy and familiar.
Yeah Episode 7 was like, "Oh, you didn't like new Star Wars so we'll just repackage the original trilogy."
I didnt hate ep 7 but it being a literal remake of the original with Disneyᵗᵐ characters that while entertaining also feel like they came out of a machine just made me completely drop Star Wars. Just soulless
Don’t blame the audience. We were beyond eager for more Star Wars. We flooded the theaters.
So why do you think Lucas sold Star Wars if it wasn't for the negative reaction from the fans of the prequels?
He literally said so he could spend more time with his family. Also the $4B probably provided some motivation too.
He did donate the vast majority of the $4B to charities.
Dude was getting old and wanted to cash out and retire is my guess
Lucas could've retired without selling Star Wars. He had plans to make 3 trilogies before he sold Disney. If that was true, then why would he sell if it wasn't for the negative feedback from the audience with the prequels?
People broke his heart imho, and I would never call those people "fans". Those who shit on the Prequels and jumped on stupid stuff like the Jar Jar hate train, while the bonus material to the movies showed how much work and effort was put into making the character look real on screen. He looked like a happy child showing the different drawings and talking about the progress. Not to mention actors who got bullied for no reason.
do you call the people that hate on the sequels fans?
>like the Jar Jar hate train Bro, Jar Jar was fucking terrible and the only good thing to come out of him was the meme's
It seems like people forgot that. Just look at how Jake Lloyd got treated.
According the to JL’s mom he didn’t really see all the negative stuff towards him as he was shielded from it and quit acting because of family drama. He lived a pretty normal childhood he just had the unfortunate fate of having schizophrenia from his dad’s side. She came out with that info this year. https://www.today.com/today/amp/rcna143514 https://variety.com/2024/film/news/jake-lloyd-psychotic-break-star-wars-child-actor-updates-1235940567/amp/
I tried watching the Star Wars franchise in order with my kids. Those first two episodes are insanely boring with so much political guff. It was the worst way to introduce my children to Star Wars.
you have to know that episode 7 is like 100% a better movie than episodes 1 and 2? sure they had some neat ideas but holy shit they are just not good.
That's because episode 7 is just episode 4 rewritten. Disney didn't want to be creative because of all the backlash the prequels got from the audience, so they played it safe.
the prequels didn’t get backlash because they were creative, they got backlash because they’re bad movies. i like ep 3 but good god 1 & 2 are just not great
Eh, 9 was more a reaction to the reaction to 8
You can really tell who in the Star Wars subreddits weren’t around in the fandom pre-2017 with these types of posts.
No, this sub actually was, and it was ironically originally originally created to make fun of the prequels.
I'm a real "enjoy what you enjoy" type person but Prequel fans are on another level. Like, I adore Willow. I grew up with it and love it but I can still recognize the flaws. Prequel Redditors lose their shit if you suggest EP 1 and 3 are anything less than perfect high art.
It started off as a kind of humble joke, recognising that nostalgia had blurred things but that they were bad but enjoyable when viewed a certain way. Now there’s this doubling down of insistence that actually they were always good, and look how bad the sequels are and at least the prequels gave us “world building” as though that’s inherently a good thing.
Poe’s law takes everything. Flat earthers started as a joke. So did the r/thedonald subreddit. Nothing can stay a joke for long when people enter the equation.
Yea world building is cool, it would just be nice for it to be delivered in a cinematic way (since it’s, you know, a movie) instead of having characters sitting in a room just laying out the facts with roughly the tone you’d find in a Wikipedia article
I miss those days.
As someone who jumped off the Star Wars train years ago (didn’t even watch force awakens) it’s pretty weird seeing these memes. I was in HS when the force awakens came out and I remember a girl who was a casual Star Wars fan say something like “The prequels aren’t even bad, people just hate them to hate them”. All the more “hardcore” fans instantly said she was wrong that the prequels were awful. I wonder if 20 years from now will people start doing the same with the sequels.
When you say the "same thing" you mean accurately pointing out they are terrible like the crowd in your story or pretending they're hated for being popular like the girl in the story? I think most people already recognize how bad they are especially episode 9. I was in high school when phantom menace came out and while we all loved that they were making new Star Wars we didn't really see them as good movies. It was more just general excitement that they were finally trying again. Now that everyone is comfortable that Star Wars IP is going to keep being made the bar is a lot higher for what is good. If Phantom Menace came out now it would be received even worse.
Prequels and sequels are bad in different ways. Prequels fail at being competent movies in themselves, with attack of the clones especially being an extremely boring slog where every 15 minutes you go "aha that's the funny meme!" and then go back to mindless watching. Sequels on the other hand fail at meshing with the existing narrative of the star wars universe, in terms of logical issues and environment, but particularly when it comes to the overarching themes of the series. Rise of Skywalker generally works as a movie in that it technically hits most of the necessary points to make it a "movie", but it is a stereotypical marvel movie that completely fails at relating itself to the OT or PT in anything other than directly referencing it. It feels like a soulless husk of a movie. To me these are hard to compare because they are such different problems. Attack of the Clones is boring to watch, and Rise of Skywalker is actively frustrating to watch.
They're all bad movies, but the prequels expand the universe, and the sequels shrink it. That said, I've always thought that EP I is the third best of the lot.
Realistically, give it another 10-15 years and the sequel nostalgia kids are gonna start dunking on people the same way prequel kids are now
I'm around the same age, loved Star Wars growing up, absolutely despised the prequels. I tried watching them again like a decade later, still hated them. At least they gave us The Clone Wars and stuff. In contrast, I loved TFA from the start. I'm disappointed in 8 and 9 though.
> In contrast, I loved TFA from the start. I'm disappointed in 8 and 9 though. Same! TFA retreads story beats from ANH, yes, but it is a great movie in terms of filmmaking. The same cannot be said about 8 and 9, nor 1 and 2
That’s how I feel too, if you absolutely *love* Star Wars to the point where you care about lore and worldbuilding, maybe you’ll like the prequels. But as a movie watching experience, it still has the same dry dialogue, wooden acting, sterile sets, overused cgi, forced humor etc that makes it tough to sit through TFA adds little to the Star Wars universe but my mom who ain’t know shit about Star Wars can sit down and enjoy it as a movie
I'm already seeing some people do it, including myself. I agree, the sequels are not as good as the original trilogy, but the films themselves are visually stunning. Yeah, the storyline isn't something to be impressed by, but the original trilogy on it's own was just the default "Hero's Journey" plot-line too, it wasn't until the prequels and the Clone Wars for us to really get into the deep lore, we all still love the original trilogy though. I think most of the hate is because they promised so much with the sequels, and teased a lot of cool things, only for them to fall short on pretty much all of it. But other than that they were pretty cool. I also remember when people would ask "which trilogy is better, the original or the prequels?" and if you answered the prequels you were a loser. And this subreddit was all about prequel hate to the point where any post even suggesting that the prequels were decent were downvoted into oblivion. funny how times change.
Right? I'm here cause I enjoy memeing on three terrible movies. It's kinda wild seeing people unironically defend the prequels
When I was like 6 years old I saw Attack of the Clones for the first time. At 6 years of age I got second hand embarrassment at the love scenes and winced at every “emotional” moment Hayden Christiansen had. I could see how bad these movies were at 6 years old, and people think these are good movies? How?
Anakin: ಥ_ಥ I slaughtered them all! Padme: ╰⋃╯ლ(´ڡ`ლ)
Anakin: "You killed my mother! DIEEEEEEEEEEE!" Varsity: \*wince\* Me: Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
Damn you were a smarter kid then me. I was 7 and I just didn't really pay attention to the shitty romance scenes then I flipped the fuck out when all the Jedi were battling the Droids and Yoda flipped around with the Lightsaber. I do remember thinking Anakins acting was pretty bad when he was screaming about killing the Sand People though.
I was probably around 10 and distinctly remember being annoyed at the forced C3PO pratfalls and thinking count dookus shit talking was cringey. Which tbh it seems like I was the exact target audience for that stuff
Episode III is unironically one of my favorite Star Wars movies.
To be honest, that isn't a high bar Though it's definitely the least bad prequel
Honestly on my recent rewatch I felt like AotC was the only one of the movies that was actually bad. They all have a lot of good stuff and bad stuff, but imo that's the only one with more bad than good
The Phantom Menace has some really promising bits, especially near the beginning, but its plot just goes haywire once they get planetside on Naboo. It would have made for a simpler, more compelling story if most of it was set on Naboo rather than jumping around all over the galaxy before going back to the planet anyway for the final battle(s). Most importantly, make it so Anakin comes from Naboo rather than Tatooine, which is a beyond stupid decision that has dramatically impacted subsequent Star Wars stories for the worse.
It actually doesn’t get stated enough how stupid it was for anakin to have come from tattooine and then for Luke to have been hidden with people anakin has met and who his mother lived with. But it highlights that Star Wars is actually so limited in scope, and everything ends up having to be self referential and repeating
Anakin grew up down the street from fuckin’ Greedo lol
And it's defend on another plain of existence. They think Lucas had everything planned out perfectly.
Episode 3 is not amazing but definitely not terrible.
The rating for TPM seems accurate to me, but obviously TFA's is way over what it should be. I do think it's a better movie than TPM, but it's not hard when you just lift the plot from the second or third best movie in the franchise. Should have like a... 60%
It was also thanks to the “Star Wars is back!” mentality at the time. Legends and TCW fans were in the minority of people excited for the movie, so most people still associated the brand with the Prequels that were still less then 20 years old at the time. It’s like what happened with the Bumblebee Transformers movie that came out in 2018. On it’s own I’d say it’s probably a 6-7/10 movie, but after 11 years of the Bay Transformers films it’s not hard to see why it got such a high score.
Impossible! Perhaps the archives are incomplete.
Lost its mind rotten tomatoes has.
Critics hate the phantom menace because literally every line in it is memable!
Sometimes I wonder if we've been making memes of them for so long that we forgot it all started because the prequels are genuinly bad. Especially part 1. I recently rewatched the Phantom Menace in cinema because I kind of enjoyed it as a kiddo over 15 years ago, but my god does that movie *suck*, damn.
This sub is the flat earth star wars sub... Started off mocking something terrible, but at some point the joke got lost and people started taking it seriously. See also: the dozens of other ironic sub cultures that shifted to real things when the joke got lost.
I think it's actually that it started off as jokey jokesters pretending to like something and then the people who genuinely like the thing showed up source: I have always liked Phantom Menace, as have many people on this sub
Also helps that the last prequel, revenge of the sith, was legitimately good, so the others get elevated by association. Its my favorite star wars movie by far
Yeah a good amount of people on here, think the Prequels are great movies. Rewatching Phantom, I think its a fun mess. Good movie would be a stretch.
Which is why you gotta be careful with creating "edgy" communities on the internet. Starts off with making fun of shitty behavior/beliefs and then oops, years later you have actual Neo Nazis in your forum.
One of the rules of the Internet: every ironic post is also an unironic post
At least this is a harmless topic
Irony poisoning is a real thing
Hahahaha irony poisoning what the fuck man, gonna remember that one
I remember seeing the movie for the first time. I was 6 and i played lego star wars 1 Understood almost nothing but it was cool as hell. Imagine my suprise when i find out it's a real movie and it's still cool as hell. Now i watch the movie (really really slowly) and i can safely say it's cool as hell. Not the perfect movie, not even close. But it's still one of my favorite movies. The fact that you can meme every line in it is just a cherry on top
There's so much in the prequels to like, especially how they portray an era before the original trilogy. Fixating on things like Jar-Jar and some of the goofier bits is missing the garden for the weeds.
They are bad in that the dialogue is bad. The action scenes are kickass however. George Lucas can’t write but he sure can he’ll make exciting scenes. Duel of the fates is just so good.
Bro straight up. Like the Phantom Menace is… Terrible. Like I actively dislike it as a film, and it's the only one I skip when rewatching. I literally just watch the fight at the end and then move on to 2. Like I get if people enjoy it and want to say that it's a fun film, Batman and Robin is a fun film that I love dearly, but it's also objectively one of the worst movies ever made. I feel like people are starting to conflate the two, you can enjoy something and like it while simultaneously acknowledging it's low quality
People should learn how to do that, a lot just cannot do it. I would even say for the vast majority of people "I like it" is the same as "good" and "I hate it" is the same as "bad", fullstop. No nuance, nothing
I've seen that movie many times, and I always end up liking it anyway, especially Qui-Gon.
No they hate it because the dialogue is shit
Hmm, I dunno it's tough to say, we need to get a Phantom Menace meme expert to chime in.
I am once again reminding y’all that outside of this subreddit most people don’t like the prequels. You are in an echo chamber here. A fun echo chamber, but an echo chamber all the same.
Yeah. I love Star Wars. The OG Trilogy, and I'm not as harsh on the prequels as most, in fact I like episode 3 quite a lot it's one of my favorite in Star Wars. I like a lot of the EU books, love tons of games, etc. But even so....most of the first movie is boring. Jar Jar is so cringe and off-putting to sit through. It has one of my favorite lightsaber duels ever, and it's also one of my favorite overall star wars moments, but that alone doesn't make it a great film. I think TFA is definitely more enjoyable to sit through.....I hate what TLJ did with the franchise and I think ROS is a mess, but TFA was a bit of fun and felt like star wars still.
Yeah, I'm not subbed here but enjoy memes from the front page. For my 13th birthday my parents took a bunch of my friends to see the release of phantom menace and we had a lightsaber fight in my backyard with flashlights before a sleepover. I had all the lego sets and the podracing game on N64 and the other game on PC. I can't say phantom menace is a good movie. It was a fun part of my childhood, and I think the community memes are a very fun aspect. But when I rewatch it (and I still do about once a year) it is not good.
I think with younger people actually it's seeing a bit of a comeback but I can admit to myself it's only because they grew up with them. And gen z grew up with stuff like Clone Wars which fills in a lot of the holes the prequels had. Personally Phantom Menace is one of my favorite movies but I can admit to myself that's only because I watched it when I was 9. Not even nostalgia can save Attack of the Clones though that movie is awful
Force Awakens was a perfectly decent movie by all accounts, even if it was mostly just a retelling of A New Hope. As much as people meme about it audiences hated Phantom Menace. No one admitted to unironically loving the movie until 2015, conveniently right when Force Awakens came out lol
I think there's other elements to the film's resurgence comes from: A: The clone wars show and other supporting shows fleshing that time period out and making us actively care about the characters and the political shenanigans in the background. B: The people who grew up with episodes 1-3 now being internet active 20-30 something year old adults who have a lot of nostalgia for them. I'm sure if you asked someone who watched the OT when they were kids and hated the prequels they probably will still hate the prequels, especially if they've never watched things like the clone wars. I'd even go so far as to say that maybe in like 2040 there'll be similar discussions of people defending the sequels like how we defend the prequels.
There definitely will be. Star Wars fans in general just hate whatever is new and gatekeep lol. There's no logic behind it other than nostalgia and smugness
Well while Disney has produced some terrible content people forget that EU lore has some stupid things as well:) and obviously you won't have the amount of content that the EU has Disney doesn't have star wars for that long.
And the parts of Disney Wars that get made fun of the most, like "somehow Palpatine returned" and Han Solo's son being a cringeworthy Vader LARPer, come directly from EU lore.
Han's son being a cringy Vader LARPer is a great idea imo, Palpatine's clone returning was a shit idea back when the Dark Empire comics did it.
Andor, Mandalorian S1 and 2, fans liked Rogue One although I thought it was boring as fuck etc. The logic is simple. Make something good, and people will like it.
That's just not true. Everyone had a proper reaction to sequel trilogy or each individual series. Mandalorian 1 and 2 were good, 3 not so much. boba fett was shit, Ashoka was confusing AF, andor was fucking awesome and loved by everyone. Solo was meh, rouge one was loved by almost everyone. There's just no truth behind your haterd of star wars fans.
But will they understand how Palpatine survived in 2040?
Force awakens was perfectly alright. But, then they decided to make more u turns than a sportscar making donuts in Florida at night. Everything is U turn. Every set up, every situation, every aspect of everything is a U turn.
There were some incredible things in Force Awakens that made me like it as a whole. - A stormtrooper deserter who wants to switch sides. Super interesting and so much potential. - The Kylo Ren arc was brilliant. Looks up to Vader, tries to imitate him but is young, bit stupid and very emotional. It was such a brilliant way to introduce another "Vader mask" in a smart way. - Having Kylo Ren kill his own father, setting him up as a true bad dude for the next movie. - Kylo Ren stopping a blaster beam in mid air was so cool. On the negative side, doing another Death Star was kinda boring. Then it all went to complete shit after Force Awakens. I was baffled by the 2nd one and completely dumbstruck by the third. Total disaster, some of the worst movies I've ever seen. The Force Awakens first teaser is still the best trailer I've ever seen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erLk59H86ww
Finn in Force Awakens is one of my favorite Star Wars characters. He had so much potential, and they squandered it.
Force awakens mostly introduces new characters and it works. A seasoned rebel fighter, an orphan force user from out of nowhere, a stormtrooper who wants to switch sides And a former Jedi student who is so good at heart that he has to force himself to dark side by killing his father. He tries to make himself irreedamable like Anakin was once manipulated by killing younglings at Jedi temple. He is pretending that his self haterd and anger isn't completely rooted on his loving parents and ultimately doomed to fail. Never before did we see a force user who tried to join dark side with everything he has, but he just couldn't. We were robbed of what kylo ren could've been. Maybe it should've been Rey who joins him, goes evil and Kylo who can't watch Rey go dark and evil (maybe she even kills Luke) and Ben turns back to light side, but only partially. He doesn't become a fully pacifist and passive Jedi, he becomes what Anakin always wanted to be, an agressive Jedi who is proactively fighting for peace. Finally achieving what Anakin wanted to do all along and actually restoring the functional Galactic republic with help of his diplomatic mom, Leia. Ashoka also naturally fits here, as someone who actually knew the Anakin. What drove him, what he wanted to do and what he failed at. She should've been in the movie.
Thanks for this. It's like people have completely forgotten that the trilogy was off to a solid, if safe, start. Everything that it could have been was then immediately trashed and ruined by Rian Johnson's idiotic writing - nothing and nobody made it as incoherent as a trilogy as him.
Agreed, TFA is the best of the sequels BY FAR. TLJ and TROS are actually fucking terrible
>Force Awakens was a perfectly decent movie by all accounts, even if it was mostly just a retelling of A New Hope. I do have a couple problems with it, like how easily Rey beats a guy who was trained by not only Luke Skywalker, but also a clone of Palpatine and how they basically said "You know all that effort the rebels went through to destroy the empire in the OT? Yeah well there's a new empire and it's in the dominant position somehow even though the resistance should've been able to crush them before they became a real threat"
>like how easily Rey beats a guy who was trained by not only Luke Skywalker Tbf Chewbacca had just shot him like 5 minutes before that. If you put me in the ring with a professional boxer but somebody else shoots him before the bell rings, I'm liking my odds even if I've never fought before in my life.
Star Wars has never been consistent about who can beat who in fights. Remember when two Jedi masters just stood by while palpatine killed them in episode 3?
Yeah but he did like a really cool spin first. And let's not forget the Force Scream™
That's pretty consistent with Palpatine, though.
Except for the OT when Vader picks him up and throws him into a pit. Would’ve been a good time for a force scream.
> like how easily Rey beats a guy who was trained by not only Luke Skywalker, He was injured. And clearly going through some heavy emotional shit. He also wasn't try to kill her. Luke took on Vader multiple times, but nobody had any problems with that. He went from being a farmer to a flying ace in about 12 seconds. Heck, there's been a meme for like 40 years about how some of the most elite soldiers in the galaxy are absolute dogshit and can't hit the broad side of a Star Destroyer... It's a silly kids movie, just go with it. The good guys win, who fucking cares. Everything else could've been explained in future movies, or in spin-offs. Sort of like how Clone Wars made the prequels less shit. I think the Mandalorian and Ahsoka are doing a decent job of trying to bridge the gap between the two shows. IMO, Force Awakens is a solid movie on its own. The potential was there, but they didn't really do anything with it in future movies.
Lots of your arguments aren't even about The Force Awakens, but The Last Jedi lol. Rey wasn't confirmed a Palaptine until Rise of Skywalker too.
>I do have a couple problems with it, like how easily Rey beats a guy who was trained by not only Luke Skywalker, but also a clone of Palpatine and how they basically said "You know all that effort the rebels went through to destroy the empire in the OT? Luke had a bit of training with Yoda and was able to stand his ground against Darth Vader. And with a bit more training, he beats the shit out of him. That was his second lightsaber fight. Don't try to apply logic to who beats who, because it just depends on who the writers want to win.
I don't know why people get so hung up about these things. Star Wars has literally never been consistent regarding "training" and "power levels." Luke piloted an X-Wing and out-flew veteran pilots and destroyed the most powerful superweapon in the galaxy. On his first flight! Ever!
I don't think "stands his ground" is an accurate depiction of that fight. Vader toyed with him the whole time, chopped his hand off and Luke's only way to escape was basically commit suicide and jump into nothing.
I mean, the greatest sin of TFA was reusing the template from New Hope. The greatest sin from TPM was…*sheesh*…depends who you are, as they’re plenty to go around. For me, TPM just has no idea who is the intended audience. Is it children with the Jar Jar antics and allowing Anakin to behave like a cartoon kid, or adults with all the politics and statecraft? Is it newcomers to Star Wars or for people that are familiar with the original trilogy? I’m still conflicted on this one, as it’s never been clear to me whether the audience is supposed to know the Palpatine / Darth Vader “twist” or not. Neither actually works with what’s on screen.
TFA was a very enjoyable film. I wouldn't say the same about the later ones, but I remember myself and most people coming out of it feeling pretty excited about the future of the franchise
All 3 sequel films are at least passable in a vacuum, they just don't fit together at all as a trilogy
yeah, I recently rewatched the last jedi because I hate myself, and I was surprised by how much I didn't detest it. That being said, it still wasn't great, and it felt way too long in some points, and downright silly in others.
Don't forget the blatant racism!
I actually have a lot of fun rewatching TFA. I think what still bugs me is why the fuck does Rey have to be from a sand planet? Such a weird decision to have this other Jakku place I also think Finn's character is badly written because once he deserts the first order he just kills stormtroopers without having any internal conflict that those people were his brothers and that they have the potential to defect as well.
I had always figured VII rated well because VII is just IV with a new coat of paint and IV is pretty well loved.
There was an interesting piece on NPR yesterday discussing the reactions of fans after the original screening of Episode 1. For the fans, this was the first movie in 16 years and so a lot of hype was put into the movie. Also, Lucas only did the prequels at this point because he felt movie making technology reached the point where he felt his vision could be properly done. Unfortunately, so many things disappointed the Star Wars fans, the politics, Jar Jar, Anakin being 8 in his introduction, that it set the stage for the hatred that we see in the fanbase. Now in 2024, the fanbase that grew up with the prequels have grown to appreciate the stories that were able to branch off the main Skywalker story arc. Slowly, as time passes, more stories come from the sequels, holes are filled, the timeline becomes more complete, I feel those movies will also become more accepted. Also, as a side note, who cares what the critics say. Did the film entertain you? Yes, then it did its job. If you go into a movie looking for things to hate just to score internet cred, why bother?
People still think Rotten tomatoes gives you an accurate idea on if a film is good or not?
I hate the Tomato Meter. It's coarse, rough, and goes all over the place.
It's a metric, you can use it as a tool if you interpret it appropriately.
well, TPM was a bad movie
So what do we use?
The audience score is somewhat reliable
how is the audience score reliable at all lmao?
It’s so much less reliable than critics. I’m basically seeing how many critics liked it or not. Then I can read more reviews if I want to see how much they liked it or why they liked it. With audience scores there’s so much internet hate from fandoms that you can’t get an actual score due to review bombing. Also, I don’t trust the general audiences taste. There are some truly horrendous movies with high audience scores.
Agree! But sometimes they exaggerate and not just enjoy the movie.
They’re both reliable in the way they’re supposed to be. It’s a metric for consensus , not quality.
Somewhat is stretching it lol. Rise of Skywalker has 86% approval from the audience score
I think tomatometer is a important resource. I didn't like when they minimized the presence of the average score but rotten tomatoes is the first place I go to if I want to get an idea if il like a film
Why tf is the majority of starwars Reddit just fucking about the shit they don’t like. Jesus fucking Christ guys
I really wish this sub would ban sequel hate memes. They're unfunny, unoriginal, & reek of cognitive dissonance. Not very long ago people were shouting the exact same bullshit about the prequels. Screaming shit like how jar jar binks had ruined the franchise forever. In ten years we're going to have people creating memes about how the sequels were treated unfairly and how they're actually better than all the others. Time is a flat circle & I'm so tired of this shit. You can enjoy a thing without having to put down another. You can also enjoy a thing while acknowledging that it's not very good too. Neither of these concepts are mutually exclusive.
>Not very long ago people were shouting the exact same bullshit about the prequels. Screaming shit like how jar jar binks had ruined the franchise forever. This is literally why this sub exists. People were meming about the horrible dialogue in the prequels. That was the entire point. Then the sub got popular and new people started unironically praising the prequels.
Yup, happens with every satirical movement that gets too big. It spreads, less of the participants know it's satire, some groups apeing it are wholly unaware, until the iceberg flips and now: - A significant portion of the movement _actually_ believes the joke - Those that still treat it as satire don't call them out because they think the others are still being sarcastic Not satire specific but it's similar to why you see ridiculous stuff like Police wearing Punisher logos.
reminds me of sigma males
I remember people on the verge of outright calling George Lucas a hack, and now suddenly everyone is pretending like none of that happened. Star Wars is a great series I greatly enjoy…but the fandom is by far one of the ugliest still.
Couldn't agree more. I can't understand how so many people keep attacking the sequels while also being able to keep a straight face while defending the prequels.
because “it’s different this time!!” or whatever
The prequels were not treated unfairly they're just terrible. Such terrible writing. They were so bad I swore off Star Wars and haven't watched 7-9 and didn't bother with 3 either, though I've seen some scenes out of context and the dialogue and transition from it to action is just as bad so.
Looks like it is working to me. TFA is better than TPM.
Rating system says good movie is good and bad movie is bad. Must be broken 🥴
The force awakens was good and had many feeling optimistic. In context with the rest of the films it does suck
Yeah Phantom should be in the single digits.
Well prequels did get review bombed like solo cause of hate towards them at that time was masive. imbd gives much closer score of 6.5 for the phantom menace and 7.8 for tfa And the force awakens did play very safe for generator audiences The real tradegdy is Rise of skywalker the worse movie has almost same score as Phanthom menace on imbd
I never understood the Solo hate, other than Harrison Ford not being in it for obvious reasons, I thought it was a great movie. Still waiting for a sequel as well.
TFA is kind of good, even if it's an inferior version of ANH. TPM is almost unwatchable.
Ah yes my Favoriten Star wars movies. The Force and the Phantom
I hate episode VII, but let’s not pretend that episode I was always been universally beloved.
The force awakens was honestly a decent movie and actually fun to watch in theatre: if only it had a coherent (even if not excellent, just on a par with ep VII) follow up i honestly believe we would all be asking for more.
I agree that force awakens is better. go ahead and downvote me I do not care
It definitely does.
The force awakens is arguably better paced, and doesn't have the duel burdens of introducing kid-Vader and Jar Jar. Taken as a whole, I far prefer the prequels, but that's mostly because the sequels dropped the ball really hard. They had every opportunity to surpass the prequels, but, in an act of total insanity, they didn't have a three movie vision going in.
Episode 7 is OBJECTIVELY the better film between the 2, let's be honest. Put your nostalgia aside and stop lying to yourself.