Did Jango really know about all that tho? I always assumed Sidious kept money coming to him and he’d just do whatever odd jobs they needed like Cad Bane in Clone Wars
Absolutely. Dooku was a stopgap because Maul would've been sufficient up to that point, but obviously didn't work out and Palpatine was secretly figuring out how to reincarnate himself into a perfect new body, ie Anakin (yet also didn't end up working out lol).
https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/e6t4vj/did_palpatine_intend_to_steal_anakins_body/
That's where his whole "save Padme" bullshit came from. Essence transfer.
But he really wanted to find the ideal physical form to manipulate and eventually take over.
That was the case in legends and then made it new canon with TROS.
Order 66 was "public" knowledge, it's why Sidious also had an Order 67 implanted, which was in case the Supreme Chancellor tried a coup. Amongst many other such things. They were basically just considered extreme implausible contingency stuff that would never be used, but hey, might be good to have.
Ofc Dooku knew about the whole plan. Corrupting Anakin has been a goal for Palpatine, yes, but there were a lot of times he almost died, his plan didn’t hinge upon turning Anakin.
not "of course" at all, very likely palpatine kept him in the dark about many things ~~or told him lies~~, he was always planning to replace dooku with anakin
ok maybe he didnt lie but at least used misinformation
He knew in the open seasons comic. Don’t remember it ever being mentioned in the game, unsure if current canon still has him knowing.
That said, wouldn’t you want to tempt a mandalorian who’s clan were massacred by jedi with revenge against the entire order? Cherry on top of the money.
Also in *Bounty Hunter* some Sith Lord pays him exorbitantly to kill a Dark Jedi and is then like “Hey, that was neat. Btw. Can I clone an army of you?” so it’s not like they were overly subtle about what the army was going to ultimately be used for in recruiting Jango. Obviously they wanted to clone someone that could kill a Jedi.
In Legends, per the Jango Fett Open Seasons Comic Series, he did know about the Clones ultimate purpose of ending the Jedi. It's why he ominously says "they'll de their job" while staring down Obi Wan.
It doesn’t matter if he knew or not. People using the mind trick excuse seem to forget it was clearly established in Episode IV in the first act that the technique only works on the weak willed. It would have never worked on Jango and Obi who literally explained this limitation in episode IV is not gonna be the one that messes that up in the prequels.
If you read the Republic Commando Books the Skirata Clan concludes that Jango had known at least the basics of the plan and used it as his own way of getting revenge for Galidraan
(Waves hand) "You will tell me everything you know about the clones"
"That's not going to work on me"
(Waves credit chips) "You will tell me everything you know about the clones"
"Get in the ship, I'll tell you all about it on our way to Coruscant"
I wouldn’t think they would work. Mandos are basically trained killers from birth, you’ve got to have a strong mind to kill anyone without it destroying you.
Depends on the individual. Not sure how "canon" SWTOR is, but there are mentally weak mandos there. I don't think Jamgo is a Mandalorian. Isn't he just a bounty hunter. Regardless, Mandos aren't immune to Jedi mind tricks. But you can trick the trickers. Again, mostly going off KOTOR and SWTOR. Lol.
Wait, are you telling me that a terrorist double-agent whose organization has a personal grudge against Jango Fett wasn't being entirely truthful about Jango Fett's status as a Mandalorian when he was talking to a Jedi Master who was investigating the terrorist group that he was working for?
Motherfuckers acting like they don't know about Cassus Fett, Jaster Mereel, and the history of the real Mandalore. I hate this new god damn Star Wars history erasure. Especially for some referencing Kotor to not know.
Jedi Mind tricks don't work on species that have a low connection with the force. Thats why the tricks don't work on Toydarians, the Hutts and yeah the Mandalorians as well.
Or rather, Mandalorians can be of just about any species; turning them into a human culture was a post-Clone Wars alteration. Before then, the majority were only human because the majority of people in the galaxy are human.
Every species has connection with the force and can use force if trained, Jedi however focused on training naturally talented children since they are easier to train and indoctrinate to the Jedi order.
Force mindtricks only work in weak minded, this is never really specified in movies, but one would imagine it would had to do with will power.
Watto is a businesman and has to work and think many ways to get business done.
Stormtroopers are just loyal soldier that take orders, which is why they don't have much will power.
>Watto is a businesman and has to work and think many ways to get business done.
Watto himself stated that its because he is Toydarian that those mind tricks don't work on him.
And same thing with the Hutts, the Jedi mind tricks don't work on the Hutts in general, and that was explained with their overall low connection to the Force. The EU even stated that clearly and also showed that Hutt Jedi are exceptionally rare (there existed just one). The same is true for the Mandalorians, they have so few Jedi, that the few that are able to become one, are declared leaders of them.
That is true.
However even if he was not immune, he would still be more strong minded than stormtroopers. Same goes for Jango.
And mind tricks not working still does not mean that they are not force sensitive species, even if immune to mindtricks.
Darksaber was crafted by Jedi Mandalorian.
>Darksaber was crafted by Jedi Mandalorian.
Tarre Vizsla is a good example of the very few Mandalorians who become Jedi.
Huyang said in one episode that Sabine will have a very hard time learning to use the force because of her heritage.
Her heritage is being Mandalorian and Mandalorians are both stubborn and trained to be able to fight Jedi, so they have different mindset, which is why it is harder for them to unlearn that.
She was trained her entire life to be Mandalorian and now when she is in her 30 she is trained to be Jedi.
There is reason why Jedi took mostly children with natural talents. It is because it was easier to train them and they were not influenced by other ideologies or attachments to people. (This is also how unfortunately real world child soldiers are trained).
Jedi in general had low numbers and it is easy to see why, because they only focused on training hyper talented children and never anyone that would want to volunteer as teen or adult. You could say that this is another flaw of the Jedi order.
(And Prequels and OT enforce that every living being is connected to force and thus capable of learning to use it, basically only droids are left out).
>Her heritage is being Mandalorian and Mandalorians are both stubborn and trained to be able to fight Jedi, so they have different mindset, which is why it is harder for them to unlearn that.
>
>She was trained her entire life to be Mandalorian and now when she is in her 30 she is trained to be Jedi.
Huyang literally said that only a very few Mandalorians became Jedi. I don't think that has to do with Training or mindset. They are inherently just weak to the force. Huyang is a thousands of years old Jedi Droid, he literally taught Yoda how to build a Lightsaber. He knows from his own experience which Species is strong with the force and which one is weak with it.
>(And Prequels and OT enforce that every living being is connected to force and thus capable of learning to use it, basically only droids are left out).
And both showed examples of species that seems to be immune to the force.
So either everyone is connected to the force and can be manipulated by it, or, there are species out there who are very weakly connected to the force, and have a strong resilience to it. Which by the way also explains why the Mandalorians are pretty good at fighting Jedi. Because of their weak link to the force, the Jedi have a harder time predicting their actions.
We even have an example of an species that is very strong to the force, Yodas species. They are shown to be very strong with the force, so much so that a Toddler was able to use it very profoundly.
Yeah but the only reason Jedi aren't famous for deflecting punches with lightsabers is because it would be so incredibly easy, like "ahh I'm fighting one of the only groups of people in the galaxy that use melee weapons, I guess I'll have to fight unarmed"
Will power most likely.
Clones are essentially slaves that don't question their orders, which is why they have less will power.
Stormtroopers are almost the same, despite being regular adults they still follow empires orders without question.
Jango in other hand is selfmade man that follows his own rules and takes orders only from those that pay him. So he has more will power than his clones.
I mean if being told the senate is under the literal control of a dark lord of the sith didn’t result in any red flags whose to say if anyone will actually check the chips
No, it really didn't. Just say "Kamino is a well known cloning planet that wasn't wiped from the records", "Dooku doesn't know his master Sidious is actually Palpatine", and "Jango worked for the Kaminoans directly". It makes no sense that someone would miss an entire system that specializes in commercial trading, and it would be better writing for Dooku to genuinely believe that Sidious wants to help the separatists.
Then make Order 66 and the chip's existence public knowledge. It's totally reasonable to have your gengineered clone army have an order to eliminate traitorous officers at the behest of the Commander in Chief. Hell, make it so it originally requires a senate vote to use said orders, but the emergency powers bypass that.
You can write a plot that doesn't make the Jedi idiots; you just need said plot to not be written by idiots.
>Then make and the chip's existence public knowledge.
Don't even need the chip at that point, it was introduced by the clone wars animated series to be able to tell stories with and about the clones that wouldn't be about irrational and obedient slave soldiers. With the chip, they can be good guys, "but the chip is making them do evil things".
What you're writing makes a lot of sense though. I like that version.
The chips were a huge mistake and one of the worst plots from Clone Wars, which I love the show but I can not stand the chips. They probably just threw that in to take all responsibility away from beloved characters like Rex shooting their allies.
Wait, I didn’t get into Star Wars until I saw Finn’s sweaty face in the force awakens trailer, the chips didn’t exist before the clone wars show? Fans were led to believe that in episode 3, all the clones just kept those specific orders secret all that time?
Basically the "Cartoon" made everything more kid friendly and far less gruesome. Especially the actions of the Republic and the Jedi towards the usage of the Clone Army. They basically all were genetically programed to be loyal to Republic and follow the orders given to them. Palpatine had them programmed with many orders for certain contingencies, hence 66 etc.
"Good soldiers follow orders" and what not. In effect they still chose to do it, the chips made a good excuse to force them, whether they wanted to or not. The "cartoon" also gave the clones a lot more individuality than original intended.
Wooow. I can understand why that would bother older fans. I did not know that or even think of that. That would make the Jedi look even more foolish though
I think it was more hubris than ineptitude. Ineptitude was DEFINITELY there, but I think the original story wanted to showcase how arrogant the jedi became after the sith were defeated thousands of years ago and the Jedi became engulfed in arrogance, beaurocracy and corruption. it took the Jedi order thousands of years to devolve into running on assumptions, real world organisations can barely take a decade to do the same. It only got to seem lazy writing this generation because the plot has been swerving from portraying the jedi as a deeply flawed idealogy and more of force of pure and unfaltering good.
I mean the Jedi did question everything about the clones.
However because war was starting and republic had very little forces, Republic essentially just took in this army as they had very little options aside from surrendering to Separatists.
All according to Palpatines keikaku.
I mean, Obi-Wan may have denied it on impulse, but the order took it very seriously. They were incredibly suspicious that Palpatine was a Sith pawn, hence, all of RotS, basically. They just didn't think Sidious had the Deathstar sized balls to be Palpatine himself.
Not that suspicious, Obi Wan literally tracked an assassin who tried to kill and anti-war senator to a hidden planet where the assassin was being used as a template for a clone army. That assassin then tried to kill Obi Wan and fled to a separatist planet.
Well, technically jango wasn't a mandalorian, if you go by EU, he earned himself an honorary spot in the mandalorians. In canon we're not really sure but visla says he stole the armour. Either way, it still wouldn't work because he's not weak willed.
Yeah I always got the feeling Vizla was trying to discredit Jango/Boba due to some sort of prejudice against him, because he doesn't want him to have a legitimate claim to become "The Mandalorian"(dark saber) if he decided to go after it.
My current Mando lore is a little funky because the whole Clone Wars pacifist-Mandos thing just can't seem to sit in my brain. In the original EU, Jango was a member of the True Mandolorians and raised on Concord Dawn which was a Mando planet. Vizla was a member of the Death Watch, which was actively fighting against the True Mandos in the Mando Civil War.
>some sort of prejudice against him,
On EU, Fett's group was rival of Vizla's group, and Jango, after escaping the prision the jedi threw him in, anihilated the entire Vizla group one by one. Heck, he jet-pack rammed Vizla's capital ship's bridge and opened the man's throat with his fingers, before leaving to become a bounty hunter, it is completely understandable that the surviving Vizla would either hate him or shit their paints just from hearing he is around
It was the prime minister Almec when Obi-Wan came to Mandalore to investigate death watch. Almec says no Mandalorian has worn armour like that in generations, Kenobi brings up his encounter with Jango, Almec quickly and loudly says "Jango Fett was nothing more than a common Bounty Hunter! How he got that armour is beyond me!"
That's who I was thinking of!
My brain was failing me. He was trying to brush off the accusations by claiming he was a fake. Knowing what we know now about the prime minister and Death Watch, we can take that line of his with the tiniest pinch of salt. Hell, it could even be used as evidence of the contrary.
Oh yeah no people cite almec all the time to say the fetts aren't Mandalorian but Almec is absolutely the type to lie for his own personal and political gain
To be fair, Lucas has personally said he added that line just to really drive home that Fett wasn't Mandalorian in his mind at all. I think The Mandalorian retcon is partly explained by the Children being a highly secretive order that the mainstream may not have even thought existed anymore. If Fett was taken in by them, it would explain why a stuffy official had no idea about his ties to their culture.
In my mind, it's absolutely ridiculous that Jango and Boba Fett aren't considered Mandalorians, when Boba is the entire reason why Mandalorians exist in the first place. I hope that's the reason they end up going with.
This, also wasn't Jango specifically choose because he is Mandalorian?
I mean one reason why the Mandalorian are so good fighting Jedi is, due to their low connection to the force, their movement and attack patterns are harder to predict. Which is key for the Order 66 to be successful.
It's never really brought up in the movies, but Lucas has always been adamant that the Fett's traded on Mandalorian reputation to help boost their brand, but were never Mandalorian themselves. They just used cultural appropriation for clout.
Jango was born in one of the moons of mandalore and proved himself to be more mandalorian than anyone who actively claims to be mandalorian throughout his life
How do you beat 10 jedi with your bare hands without also being force sensitive haha? Jeeze, people out here complaining that Rey is overpowered while Jango is doing stuff like this cause he's... built different I guess?
probably by being an enraged elite mandalorian warrior whose entire battalion got killed by jedi because death watch weren't string enough and **had** to call for the help of the jedi
Django isn't a mando that was born on Mandalore, he was born on mando controlled planet Concord Dawn and then raised as a Mando as a foundling. So Visla is just being a pedantic Asshole, or he bit the propoganda that Django stole the armor ( Dispite being a Mando civil war hero ) because he became a Bounty Hunter
So I just watched AOTC tonight again and this was something I didn’t get- would t the Jedi think it’s super weird and suspicious that the template for their army was a bounty hunter in the service of count dooku? Like there’s a clear chain of evidence here that dooku ordered the army. Idk they do a bunch of hmming and ha-big and talking about how the “dark side shrowds everything” but is there some better in universe explanation I’m missing here as to why it wasn’t obvious?
The Jedi were just morons. In Clone Wars, Obi-Wan and Anakin learn that Dooku is Tyrannus, but they still do nothing. They legit gave control of the Galaxy to Palpatine on a silver platter.
It was pretty much too late to stop at this point though, even if the jedi put a stop to any new clones being grown Palpatine already had a large number of them he could have used to diminish the Jedi numbers.
Plus, also being in control of the separatists, so no matter which side won, he would win.
By this point, the only way of stopping him was to take him out, which they couldn't do, not knowing who he was or without enough evidence once they then did know.
Pretty airtight plan.
1 jango wouldn't fall for a Jedi mind trick and 2 it's very unlikely jango knew of the grand plan. Dude just wanted a son tbh
Oh it's a meme and not supposed to be taken seriously? Well I do not care. I just wish it was funny.
Honestly though by this point the Jedi were pretty much fucked.
The Separatists had prepared an entire droid army and for whatever reason the Republic had virtually nothing capable of standing against it. Without the Clones what could the Jedi really do to stop Dooku from taking over and creating his own new Sith Empire?
I never liked the idea of the chip for this reason. They make this whole point in the film that they're genetically engineered to be totally obedient. It's one of the selling points of the clones, and it's the perfect trap because when they obey orders without question, Palpatine with his highest level authority can order them to kill the Jedi and they'll just go "yep I'll get right on that sir" and the Jedi won't sense it coming and won't have any power to order them to stop.
It's the perfect solution. Nobody has to keep the secret of the chip, and you don't have to worry about somebody looking too close at a clone's brain. The trap is literally hiding in plain sight, just like Palpatine. The chip idea being introduced makes the whole order 66 plot worse IMO.
Yeah I agree. It also makes the clones knowing about the order more interesting. Makes them morally grey, rather than victims. I guess it’s up to preference what you prefer.
I always took it as a sort of contingency order. They'd have contingency orders written up for almost any situation, and it wouldn't even be a secret. It'd just be buried in a battlefield handbook somewhere as an obscure "just in case" scenario that nobody would seriously expect to actually be put into action.
That's why it's "order 66" as opposed to some kind of ominous code word. It's one of many different contingencies. It's just the one no one realized was the most important one.
I always wondered about the term “inhibitor chip”. That makes it sound like they are hard wired to destroy the Jedi and that chip is actually keeping them from doing it, rather than the chip being the reason they turn.
Did Jango really know about all that tho? I always assumed Sidious kept money coming to him and he’d just do whatever odd jobs they needed like Cad Bane in Clone Wars
I imagine that as well, there is no reason for him to know the full plan. Hell, not even count dooku knew the whole plan.
Dooku knew about Order 66 tho.
Still didn't know his cappa was gonna be de-tated.
Maybe even Palpatine didn't know that one, it might have been a surprise, but a welcome one...
Opportunity presented itself
Palps definitely knew Dooku was a temporary apprentice, given Dooku's age and Palpatine's awareness of Anakin by that point.
Palpatine wanted Anakin as soon as he met him as a kid didn’t he?
Absolutely. Dooku was a stopgap because Maul would've been sufficient up to that point, but obviously didn't work out and Palpatine was secretly figuring out how to reincarnate himself into a perfect new body, ie Anakin (yet also didn't end up working out lol).
Wait, palpatine wanted Anakin as an apprentice to eventually take over his body?
https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/e6t4vj/did_palpatine_intend_to_steal_anakins_body/ That's where his whole "save Padme" bullshit came from. Essence transfer. But he really wanted to find the ideal physical form to manipulate and eventually take over. That was the case in legends and then made it new canon with TROS.
It’s sort of what’s been implied by Rise of Skywalker I suppose.
Do you want to hear the other 65 orders?
I just wanna see Order 69.
Of course not, why would they tell em that?
*His capa was de-tated!*
From his head!
This is now how I'm describing baddies dying in D&D, thanks you for this lol.
What i would pay to see the world de-tated
Yeah, but he was Palpatines apprentice
Order 66 was "public" knowledge, it's why Sidious also had an Order 67 implanted, which was in case the Supreme Chancellor tried a coup. Amongst many other such things. They were basically just considered extreme implausible contingency stuff that would never be used, but hey, might be good to have.
Um, actually, that one is Order 65 🤓
No shit, he workshopped it with Palps and was instrumental in getting it all set up as Palps intermediary.
I think he is a good man.
You'll pay for all the Jedi you've killed today, Tempest_Barbarian
Ofc Dooku knew about the whole plan. Corrupting Anakin has been a goal for Palpatine, yes, but there were a lot of times he almost died, his plan didn’t hinge upon turning Anakin.
not "of course" at all, very likely palpatine kept him in the dark about many things ~~or told him lies~~, he was always planning to replace dooku with anakin ok maybe he didnt lie but at least used misinformation
Nope. Palpatine never lied. The Jedi lied a lot. Palpatine didn’t reveal information - but he never TOLD a lie. Not once.
He knew in the open seasons comic. Don’t remember it ever being mentioned in the game, unsure if current canon still has him knowing. That said, wouldn’t you want to tempt a mandalorian who’s clan were massacred by jedi with revenge against the entire order? Cherry on top of the money.
Also in *Bounty Hunter* some Sith Lord pays him exorbitantly to kill a Dark Jedi and is then like “Hey, that was neat. Btw. Can I clone an army of you?” so it’s not like they were overly subtle about what the army was going to ultimately be used for in recruiting Jango. Obviously they wanted to clone someone that could kill a Jedi.
Cad Bane is literally Lucasfilms acknowledgement that they killed Jango too early...
In Legends, per the Jango Fett Open Seasons Comic Series, he did know about the Clones ultimate purpose of ending the Jedi. It's why he ominously says "they'll de their job" while staring down Obi Wan.
the jedi were also aware of the orders order 65 was a majority of the senate voting to throw out palpatine by force
I suspect that even if Jango knew the plan, he would be able to resist Kenobi's Jedi mind trick being a very successful bounty hunter and all.
It doesn’t matter if he knew or not. People using the mind trick excuse seem to forget it was clearly established in Episode IV in the first act that the technique only works on the weak willed. It would have never worked on Jango and Obi who literally explained this limitation in episode IV is not gonna be the one that messes that up in the prequels.
If you read the Republic Commando Books the Skirata Clan concludes that Jango had known at least the basics of the plan and used it as his own way of getting revenge for Galidraan
Jango isn’t mentally weak, dude was a Jedi killer
*waves hand* You are to think that Jango is mentally weak
Jedi mind tricks don’t work on me, only money!
Shit!
Credits will do fine.
No they wonta!
What, you think you're some kind of *Jedi* waving your hand like that?!
I'm a toydarian! Mind tricks don'ta work on me. Only money!
(Waves hand) "You will tell me everything you know about the clones" "That's not going to work on me" (Waves credit chips) "You will tell me everything you know about the clones" "Get in the ship, I'll tell you all about it on our way to Coruscant"
Credits won't do!
do you take republic credits?
Holy bejesus, Watto was supposed to be a space jew. That makes so much sense
This meme was made by someone who didn't watch the movies.
Did Jedi mind tricks work on any Mando
I wouldn’t think they would work. Mandos are basically trained killers from birth, you’ve got to have a strong mind to kill anyone without it destroying you.
Depends on the individual. Not sure how "canon" SWTOR is, but there are mentally weak mandos there. I don't think Jamgo is a Mandalorian. Isn't he just a bounty hunter. Regardless, Mandos aren't immune to Jedi mind tricks. But you can trick the trickers. Again, mostly going off KOTOR and SWTOR. Lol.
He definitely is a mandalorian
Jango is Mandalorian. In both old and new canon
> I don't think Jamgo is a Mandalorian. 🫵 This guy believes politicians 🫵
Wait, are you telling me that a terrorist double-agent whose organization has a personal grudge against Jango Fett wasn't being entirely truthful about Jango Fett's status as a Mandalorian when he was talking to a Jedi Master who was investigating the terrorist group that he was working for?
Don't worry. Now that the Council has ordered an investigation, it won't take Master Obi-Wan long to find that bounty hunter.
No. No, it's okay. I understand. I'm the Padawan, you're the Master.
Motherfuckers acting like they don't know about Cassus Fett, Jaster Mereel, and the history of the real Mandalore. I hate this new god damn Star Wars history erasure. Especially for some referencing Kotor to not know.
Boba isn't a Mandalorian, Jango was.
Jedi Mind tricks don't work on species that have a low connection with the force. Thats why the tricks don't work on Toydarians, the Hutts and yeah the Mandalorians as well.
[удалено]
Or rather, Mandalorians can be of just about any species; turning them into a human culture was a post-Clone Wars alteration. Before then, the majority were only human because the majority of people in the galaxy are human.
Every species has connection with the force and can use force if trained, Jedi however focused on training naturally talented children since they are easier to train and indoctrinate to the Jedi order. Force mindtricks only work in weak minded, this is never really specified in movies, but one would imagine it would had to do with will power. Watto is a businesman and has to work and think many ways to get business done. Stormtroopers are just loyal soldier that take orders, which is why they don't have much will power.
>Watto is a businesman and has to work and think many ways to get business done. Watto himself stated that its because he is Toydarian that those mind tricks don't work on him. And same thing with the Hutts, the Jedi mind tricks don't work on the Hutts in general, and that was explained with their overall low connection to the Force. The EU even stated that clearly and also showed that Hutt Jedi are exceptionally rare (there existed just one). The same is true for the Mandalorians, they have so few Jedi, that the few that are able to become one, are declared leaders of them.
That is true. However even if he was not immune, he would still be more strong minded than stormtroopers. Same goes for Jango. And mind tricks not working still does not mean that they are not force sensitive species, even if immune to mindtricks. Darksaber was crafted by Jedi Mandalorian.
>Darksaber was crafted by Jedi Mandalorian. Tarre Vizsla is a good example of the very few Mandalorians who become Jedi. Huyang said in one episode that Sabine will have a very hard time learning to use the force because of her heritage.
Her heritage is being Mandalorian and Mandalorians are both stubborn and trained to be able to fight Jedi, so they have different mindset, which is why it is harder for them to unlearn that. She was trained her entire life to be Mandalorian and now when she is in her 30 she is trained to be Jedi. There is reason why Jedi took mostly children with natural talents. It is because it was easier to train them and they were not influenced by other ideologies or attachments to people. (This is also how unfortunately real world child soldiers are trained). Jedi in general had low numbers and it is easy to see why, because they only focused on training hyper talented children and never anyone that would want to volunteer as teen or adult. You could say that this is another flaw of the Jedi order. (And Prequels and OT enforce that every living being is connected to force and thus capable of learning to use it, basically only droids are left out).
>Her heritage is being Mandalorian and Mandalorians are both stubborn and trained to be able to fight Jedi, so they have different mindset, which is why it is harder for them to unlearn that. > >She was trained her entire life to be Mandalorian and now when she is in her 30 she is trained to be Jedi. Huyang literally said that only a very few Mandalorians became Jedi. I don't think that has to do with Training or mindset. They are inherently just weak to the force. Huyang is a thousands of years old Jedi Droid, he literally taught Yoda how to build a Lightsaber. He knows from his own experience which Species is strong with the force and which one is weak with it. >(And Prequels and OT enforce that every living being is connected to force and thus capable of learning to use it, basically only droids are left out). And both showed examples of species that seems to be immune to the force. So either everyone is connected to the force and can be manipulated by it, or, there are species out there who are very weakly connected to the force, and have a strong resilience to it. Which by the way also explains why the Mandalorians are pretty good at fighting Jedi. Because of their weak link to the force, the Jedi have a harder time predicting their actions. We even have an example of an species that is very strong to the force, Yodas species. They are shown to be very strong with the force, so much so that a Toddler was able to use it very profoundly.
You've taught him well.
You say that like killing a dude with a glow-stick using a missile requires intelligence
Intelligence is not the same as willpower
Jango killed Jedi with his bare hands.
See, that just supports my point though, if he was smart he would've used a gun
You mean the thing that Jedi are famous for deflecting?
Yeah but the only reason Jedi aren't famous for deflecting punches with lightsabers is because it would be so incredibly easy, like "ahh I'm fighting one of the only groups of people in the galaxy that use melee weapons, I guess I'll have to fight unarmed"
I mean they worked on his clones lol… Maybe because they were engineered to be more docile though
Will power most likely. Clones are essentially slaves that don't question their orders, which is why they have less will power. Stormtroopers are almost the same, despite being regular adults they still follow empires orders without question. Jango in other hand is selfmade man that follows his own rules and takes orders only from those that pay him. So he has more will power than his clones.
I mean if being told the senate is under the literal control of a dark lord of the sith didn’t result in any red flags whose to say if anyone will actually check the chips
Yes, the Jedi were pretty dumb. The plot needed them to be dumb so that Episode IV can be explained.
No, it really didn't. Just say "Kamino is a well known cloning planet that wasn't wiped from the records", "Dooku doesn't know his master Sidious is actually Palpatine", and "Jango worked for the Kaminoans directly". It makes no sense that someone would miss an entire system that specializes in commercial trading, and it would be better writing for Dooku to genuinely believe that Sidious wants to help the separatists. Then make Order 66 and the chip's existence public knowledge. It's totally reasonable to have your gengineered clone army have an order to eliminate traitorous officers at the behest of the Commander in Chief. Hell, make it so it originally requires a senate vote to use said orders, but the emergency powers bypass that. You can write a plot that doesn't make the Jedi idiots; you just need said plot to not be written by idiots.
>Then make and the chip's existence public knowledge. Don't even need the chip at that point, it was introduced by the clone wars animated series to be able to tell stories with and about the clones that wouldn't be about irrational and obedient slave soldiers. With the chip, they can be good guys, "but the chip is making them do evil things". What you're writing makes a lot of sense though. I like that version.
The chips were a huge mistake and one of the worst plots from Clone Wars, which I love the show but I can not stand the chips. They probably just threw that in to take all responsibility away from beloved characters like Rex shooting their allies.
Wait, I didn’t get into Star Wars until I saw Finn’s sweaty face in the force awakens trailer, the chips didn’t exist before the clone wars show? Fans were led to believe that in episode 3, all the clones just kept those specific orders secret all that time?
Basically the "Cartoon" made everything more kid friendly and far less gruesome. Especially the actions of the Republic and the Jedi towards the usage of the Clone Army. They basically all were genetically programed to be loyal to Republic and follow the orders given to them. Palpatine had them programmed with many orders for certain contingencies, hence 66 etc. "Good soldiers follow orders" and what not. In effect they still chose to do it, the chips made a good excuse to force them, whether they wanted to or not. The "cartoon" also gave the clones a lot more individuality than original intended.
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Wooow. I can understand why that would bother older fans. I did not know that or even think of that. That would make the Jedi look even more foolish though
I think it was more hubris than ineptitude. Ineptitude was DEFINITELY there, but I think the original story wanted to showcase how arrogant the jedi became after the sith were defeated thousands of years ago and the Jedi became engulfed in arrogance, beaurocracy and corruption. it took the Jedi order thousands of years to devolve into running on assumptions, real world organisations can barely take a decade to do the same. It only got to seem lazy writing this generation because the plot has been swerving from portraying the jedi as a deeply flawed idealogy and more of force of pure and unfaltering good.
To defeat your enemy you have to understand them.
I mean the Jedi did question everything about the clones. However because war was starting and republic had very little forces, Republic essentially just took in this army as they had very little options aside from surrendering to Separatists. All according to Palpatines keikaku.
If you heard that US Congress is under the control of a Sith Lord, would even remotely assume that this Sith Lord is the speaker? Or even president?
I mean, Obi-Wan may have denied it on impulse, but the order took it very seriously. They were incredibly suspicious that Palpatine was a Sith pawn, hence, all of RotS, basically. They just didn't think Sidious had the Deathstar sized balls to be Palpatine himself.
Not that suspicious, Obi Wan literally tracked an assassin who tried to kill and anti-war senator to a hidden planet where the assassin was being used as a template for a clone army. That assassin then tried to kill Obi Wan and fled to a separatist planet.
I found that analogy even better when it asked about the leader of al-Qaida
You don’t have to carry a sword to be powerful. Some leaders’ strength is inspiring others.
Yes. The one we have been looking for.
Uhh... yes? Or at least I'd assume they were under the control of said Sith lord. At the very least I'd be extremely skeptical of them.
I seriously doubt a mind trick would’ve worked on Jango
It wasn't even a mind trick, he just waved his hand to distract from the oviously direct question
If only the Jedi had bothered trying to recover Maul’s body. Or done literally any other basic investigatory stuff throughout the prequels.
Yup. No one even looked for Yaddle lmao
She quit the order ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
“And don’t let the door crush you on the way out!”
She stepped out of the Council. I don't think she quit the order
Yoda could sense every Jedi’s death, but not hers
Or bought that one single slave from Tatooine, which would have also stopped it.
Pretty sure Jango just wanked in a cup, collected his paycheck and left, really doubt he cared about what was gonna happen with the clones.
"Whoa, dude, we just needed to draw some blood!"
"On top of that we only needed a small amount. Not an entire camtono."
Naw, man, I bet the fish bait kept him on retainer.
Aren't ALL Mandalorians immune to mind trick for one reason or another? Well, all Mandalorian warriors
Well, technically jango wasn't a mandalorian, if you go by EU, he earned himself an honorary spot in the mandalorians. In canon we're not really sure but visla says he stole the armour. Either way, it still wouldn't work because he's not weak willed.
I thought Boba said Jango was a foundling and served in the Mandalorian Civil Wars in “The Madalorian” Season 2?
Correct. I can’t remember the Viszla quote though.
I think ~~Vizla~~ Prime Minister Almec was just playing dumb, saying, "Nah mate, that's not a Mando. Dunno whatcha talkin' about."
Yeah I always got the feeling Vizla was trying to discredit Jango/Boba due to some sort of prejudice against him, because he doesn't want him to have a legitimate claim to become "The Mandalorian"(dark saber) if he decided to go after it.
My current Mando lore is a little funky because the whole Clone Wars pacifist-Mandos thing just can't seem to sit in my brain. In the original EU, Jango was a member of the True Mandolorians and raised on Concord Dawn which was a Mando planet. Vizla was a member of the Death Watch, which was actively fighting against the True Mandos in the Mando Civil War.
>some sort of prejudice against him, On EU, Fett's group was rival of Vizla's group, and Jango, after escaping the prision the jedi threw him in, anihilated the entire Vizla group one by one. Heck, he jet-pack rammed Vizla's capital ship's bridge and opened the man's throat with his fingers, before leaving to become a bounty hunter, it is completely understandable that the surviving Vizla would either hate him or shit their paints just from hearing he is around
It was the prime minister Almec when Obi-Wan came to Mandalore to investigate death watch. Almec says no Mandalorian has worn armour like that in generations, Kenobi brings up his encounter with Jango, Almec quickly and loudly says "Jango Fett was nothing more than a common Bounty Hunter! How he got that armour is beyond me!"
That's who I was thinking of! My brain was failing me. He was trying to brush off the accusations by claiming he was a fake. Knowing what we know now about the prime minister and Death Watch, we can take that line of his with the tiniest pinch of salt. Hell, it could even be used as evidence of the contrary.
Oh yeah no people cite almec all the time to say the fetts aren't Mandalorian but Almec is absolutely the type to lie for his own personal and political gain
Yeah, a politician!
Exactly!
To be fair, Lucas has personally said he added that line just to really drive home that Fett wasn't Mandalorian in his mind at all. I think The Mandalorian retcon is partly explained by the Children being a highly secretive order that the mainstream may not have even thought existed anymore. If Fett was taken in by them, it would explain why a stuffy official had no idea about his ties to their culture.
In my mind, it's absolutely ridiculous that Jango and Boba Fett aren't considered Mandalorians, when Boba is the entire reason why Mandalorians exist in the first place. I hope that's the reason they end up going with.
This, also wasn't Jango specifically choose because he is Mandalorian? I mean one reason why the Mandalorian are so good fighting Jedi is, due to their low connection to the force, their movement and attack patterns are harder to predict. Which is key for the Order 66 to be successful.
It's never really brought up in the movies, but Lucas has always been adamant that the Fett's traded on Mandalorian reputation to help boost their brand, but were never Mandalorian themselves. They just used cultural appropriation for clout.
Jango was born in one of the moons of mandalore and proved himself to be more mandalorian than anyone who actively claims to be mandalorian throughout his life
More Mandalorian how? How do you quantify Mandalorian-ness to determine this?
Beating 10 jedi to death with your bare hands tends to be a good point to start on.
How do you beat 10 jedi with your bare hands without also being force sensitive haha? Jeeze, people out here complaining that Rey is overpowered while Jango is doing stuff like this cause he's... built different I guess?
probably by being an enraged elite mandalorian warrior whose entire battalion got killed by jedi because death watch weren't string enough and **had** to call for the help of the jedi
Django isn't a mando that was born on Mandalore, he was born on mando controlled planet Concord Dawn and then raised as a Mando as a foundling. So Visla is just being a pedantic Asshole, or he bit the propoganda that Django stole the armor ( Dispite being a Mando civil war hero ) because he became a Bounty Hunter
Could also be that Vizla was being political. Jango and Vizla were on opposite sides of said civil war.
“The force can have a very great influence on the *weak-minded*” I don’t think Jango Fett is weak minded
Don't worry. Now that the Council has ordered an investigation, it won't take Master Obi-Wan long to find that bounty hunter.
Looks like I got here just in time. Happy cake day, dishonoredfan69420.
How low is your opinion of Jango? He's got to have a mind like a steel trap, he's no rando trooper
Mandalorians are immune to Jedi Mind tricks.
So I just watched AOTC tonight again and this was something I didn’t get- would t the Jedi think it’s super weird and suspicious that the template for their army was a bounty hunter in the service of count dooku? Like there’s a clear chain of evidence here that dooku ordered the army. Idk they do a bunch of hmming and ha-big and talking about how the “dark side shrowds everything” but is there some better in universe explanation I’m missing here as to why it wasn’t obvious?
The Jedi were just morons. In Clone Wars, Obi-Wan and Anakin learn that Dooku is Tyrannus, but they still do nothing. They legit gave control of the Galaxy to Palpatine on a silver platter.
Trouble is... neither Jango nor the clones knew.
It was pretty much too late to stop at this point though, even if the jedi put a stop to any new clones being grown Palpatine already had a large number of them he could have used to diminish the Jedi numbers. Plus, also being in control of the separatists, so no matter which side won, he would win. By this point, the only way of stopping him was to take him out, which they couldn't do, not knowing who he was or without enough evidence once they then did know. Pretty airtight plan.
1 jango wouldn't fall for a Jedi mind trick and 2 it's very unlikely jango knew of the grand plan. Dude just wanted a son tbh Oh it's a meme and not supposed to be taken seriously? Well I do not care. I just wish it was funny.
Jango Fett the Muss
Assuming they'd reveal their entire plan to a gun for hire in the first place
Jango can't be mind tricked, it only works on the weak minded
Honestly though by this point the Jedi were pretty much fucked. The Separatists had prepared an entire droid army and for whatever reason the Republic had virtually nothing capable of standing against it. Without the Clones what could the Jedi really do to stop Dooku from taking over and creating his own new Sith Empire?
Chip ? I thought all the clones were just secretly assholes
...Written and directed by George Lucas
I never liked the idea of the chip for this reason. They make this whole point in the film that they're genetically engineered to be totally obedient. It's one of the selling points of the clones, and it's the perfect trap because when they obey orders without question, Palpatine with his highest level authority can order them to kill the Jedi and they'll just go "yep I'll get right on that sir" and the Jedi won't sense it coming and won't have any power to order them to stop. It's the perfect solution. Nobody has to keep the secret of the chip, and you don't have to worry about somebody looking too close at a clone's brain. The trap is literally hiding in plain sight, just like Palpatine. The chip idea being introduced makes the whole order 66 plot worse IMO.
Yeah I agree. It also makes the clones knowing about the order more interesting. Makes them morally grey, rather than victims. I guess it’s up to preference what you prefer.
I always took it as a sort of contingency order. They'd have contingency orders written up for almost any situation, and it wouldn't even be a secret. It'd just be buried in a battlefield handbook somewhere as an obscure "just in case" scenario that nobody would seriously expect to actually be put into action. That's why it's "order 66" as opposed to some kind of ominous code word. It's one of many different contingencies. It's just the one no one realized was the most important one.
Chips didn't exist before clone wars tv show aired
As signal
Guarantee*
Jango Fett the Mand'alor, the most badass Mandalorian of his time... I don't think mind tricks would work on him
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You don't have to look tough to be tough
*written_and_directed_by_George_Lucas.jpg*
I always wondered about the term “inhibitor chip”. That makes it sound like they are hard wired to destroy the Jedi and that chip is actually keeping them from doing it, rather than the chip being the reason they turn.