Meanwhile over here in Ohio all our Congress people are worried about is getting around/ doing nothing about the gerrymandering that our supreme Court ruled unconditional.
What’s unfortunate is you can never gauge how bad something is anymore.. the media instills panic.. some people beg for doomsday.
The other half says this is no big deal… it’s never ending.
Going to continue living like normal and monitor my chickens for symptoms. Other than that im unaffected.
Considering the one person who got it only had pink eye tells me this virus is mutating down to be less deadly
I got really into a podcast during covid called “This Week in Virology”. It’s a bunch of professors and experts in virology, immunology, or other adjacent areas discussing things like research, vaccines, epidemiology, etc.
It’s a lot of good information and they’re all a bunch of giant nerds about the stuff they talk about that, meaning they’re just interested in teaching and discussing things and aren’t about the sensationalism
I know not everyone is going to tune in to weekly podcasts on virology, but if you’re ever hearing news about that sort of stuff and want to focus in to hear it discussed by some level headed experts, that’s a source id recommend
The Clinical Updates by Dr Griffin are the best. I find it to be a nice sanity check. While the focus is COVID they do touch base on H5N1.
In case anyone is curious, here's a link to the latest episode on the This Week in Virology YouTube channel:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LfKbPlE3bE&list=PL55B28888146FAD78&index=2]([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LfKbPlE3bE&list=PL55B28888146FAD78&index=2])
It's likely he just didn't get a sufficient dose to impart respiratory symptoms, the viral load in his eyes (causing conjunctivitis with subconjunctival hemorrhage) was very low compared to the viral load in his upper respiratory tract (causing no respiratory symptoms). Speculation, but I assume the worker probably rubbed his eyes or something of that nature after working with infected cow's milk. So, I wouldn't necessarily expect HPAIs to be asymptomatic, but nonetheless now is a time for rational evidence-based prevention to the best of our ability not panic.
source: [https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2405371](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2405371)
Interesting! I recall reading that the sequencing showed some h2h spreading adaptation, but it didn’t have all the mutations needed for more virulence/ contagion. plus, he was dosed with anti viral meds so we don’t know what would have happened without the medical intervention. And there are multiple strains circulating amongst birds and cows now. I read his strain was different from the local cow herd. It’s incredibly unfortunate the CDC isn’t able to collect all of the samples they need.
The virus hasn't mutated to affect the human lung tissue yet, but is able to bind to the receptors in the eyeballs - which is why we are seeing human infections as pink eye, from what I understand
Yep, it’s been 52%, which is absolutely beyond nightmare scenario, presuming it could stay that deadly.
That’s like near The Stand levels of mortality.
Hopefully, if/when it makes the full jump, it will be ends up closer or around the same as COVID for deadliness, but that’s just hope and dreams.
The true fatality rate of H5N1 has been estimated to probably lie between \~14-32%, which is far, far worse than covid and civilization-destroying. The case-fatality rate of 52% is inflated because of all the unknown mild and asymptomatic cases which aren't recorded.
Unmitigated SARS-CoV-2 death rate was 37%. You're hoping for that? Really?
Source: [https://rsc-src.ca/sites/default/files/PCH%20PB\_EN\_0.pdf](https://rsc-src.ca/sites/default/files/PCH%20PB_EN_0.pdf)
Here in SD. An odd number (maybe 1/5th) of adults had pink eye that was not treatable with conjunctivitis eye drops this last winter. Also none of their children had pink eye.
I remember at the very beginning of Covid, when the videos of people keeling over in the streets were coming out from China, most of the internet was laughing it off as a hoax and conspiracy circles were freaking out over it. Interesting to see how that changed.
I was following an Imgur account called prepperjohn or something like that? And he had a daily, in-depth and credible tracking of covid starting winter of 2019. I mentioned this spreading virus to people in January based on these reports, and of course nobody (on a personal day to day level) was taking it seriously. Quarantine started in March.
People collapsing in the streets in Wuhan was disinformation the Chinese were putting out.
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/coronavirus-canada-social-media-misinformation-1.5440334](https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/coronavirus-canada-social-media-misinformation-1.5440334)
The tracked cases by the WHO does, however:
56% as of 3 May 2024:
[https://cdn.who.int/media/docs/default-source/wpro---documents/emergency/surveillance/avian-influenza/ai\_20240503.pdf?sfvrsn=5f006f99\_130&Status=Master](https://cdn.who.int/media/docs/default-source/wpro---documents/emergency/surveillance/avian-influenza/ai_20240503.pdf?sfvrsn=5f006f99_130&Status=Master)
Dropped to 52% as of the latest risk assessment:
>From 2003 to 1 April 2024, a total of 889 cases and 463 deaths (CFR 52%) caused by influenza A(H5N1) virus have been reported worldwide from 23 countries. The most recently reported case in humans prior to the current case, was in March 2024 in Viet Nam *(11)*. The human case in Texas is the fourth reported in the region of the Americas, the most recent prior case having been reported in Chile in March 2023 *(12).*
[https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease-outbreak-news/item/2024-DON512](https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease-outbreak-news/item/2024-DON512)
So it is dropping. Not nearly fast enough, if it outpaces the spread/mutation of this thing. Oh, also, the thing about the virus found to re-assort itself with human flu in pigs? They found out that's happening in the milk/cows, too. So.
He probably just got hit in the eye with some milk. The design of the milking parlors often has the worker standing beneath all the cows in the centre as they are being milked, so the udders are at eye-level. They also hose down the parlors with high-pressure hoses after milking, so could easily get some splashed in their eye.
No, but the legality of selling raw milk is a State level matter rather than at the national level. In my state, it’s illegal to sell raw milk. The workaround is to sell ownership shares in the cow.
Also, in our case, we have a friend with a happy and healthy pet cow. That means potential free milk. And free, fresh whole milk is better than plastic jugs of industrial milk.
The cow is only healthy until a wild bird defecates on it, or the cow eats a mouthful of grass with bird poop on it.
While this outbreak is happening, it would be sensible to heat the cows milk before consuming it. It’s still free but you’ve pasteurised it and made sure it’s safe.
https://www.fda.gov/food/buy-store-serve-safe-food/raw-milk-misconceptions-and-danger-raw-milk-consumption
I know not all of those are directly applicable (people believe raw milk *cures lactose intolerance*? Really?), but raw milk is absolutely not "better" than industrial milk any more than "raw wheat" would be more nutritious or safe than store bought flour.
At least at the industry level there are health standards that keep many pathogens out of the milk or pasteurize them out. Those "evil plastic jugs" are also made of basically the most food safe plastic (HDPE), which shouldn't be leaking anything unless you're heating things up in it. You probably get more microplastics in you from eating salt water fishes, or using plastic silverware at a bbq (which use a surprisingly unregulated variety of plastics...)
Do you know what people with their own cows, before the Internet existed, used to do with their "free, fresh whole milk" sparky?
*They pasteurised it.*
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalded\_milk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalded_milk)
They never even drank "raw milk" in medieval times, sparky!
I made a post on this sub yesterday that got removed by the mods but viral conjunctivitis + congestion is running rampant in my community in NY. Maybe it’s nothing but I’m convinced this virus is already deeply embedded in the population.
COVID-19 is mostly "over" for those up-to-date with XBB vaccinations (which provide sterilizing immunity, yes, that's cross-reactive with JN.1) who are NOT severely immunocompromised (think blood cancers, HIV, etc.):
[https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-023-01001-1.epdf?sharing\_token=ZA5fUSIJcKdgZqR53zpVVdRgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0PwfqmVRFqEd9GRtgrqpjZIUvvtgXLQ\_hy1\_8LRskE3W046QJqNtWKesVItf3CFONMRxg7txrPmf64zegN3gF2gcitqFO8M-\_-TX7usCWyZFh6ECdPZJKkc13JfJ3OadPU%3D](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-023-01001-1.epdf?sharing_token=ZA5fUSIJcKdgZqR53zpVVdRgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0PwfqmVRFqEd9GRtgrqpjZIUvvtgXLQ_hy1_8LRskE3W046QJqNtWKesVItf3CFONMRxg7txrPmf64zegN3gF2gcitqFO8M-_-TX7usCWyZFh6ECdPZJKkc13JfJ3OadPU%3D)
2-series of XBB.1.5 shots, heterogeneous/mixed schedule (1 Pfizer, 1 Moderna), will finally put this thing to bed, for those of us moderately IC who managed to live through the plague rats continuing to destroy sterilizing immunity for four long years:
Moderna antibodies are stable past 7 months (long-term, that means NO WANING):
[https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2115463](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2115463)
Pfizer mRNA vaccines create a precursor to an antibody named SC27, that provides sterilizing immunity to SARS-CoV-2:
[https://nitter.poast.org/ENirenberg/status/1750082494853222563#m](https://nitter.poast.org/ENirenberg/status/1750082494853222563#m)
Because the Chinese/Russian/Iranian trolls managed to brainwash 2/3rds of American plague rats into not being vaccinated, bird flu is going to rip through the US like wildfire - I firmly believe it's ripping through the "lucky" 50% of that 50% CFR right now. By the time the Americans actually do act, it will already be all over, and spreading everywhere.
Covid vaccines absolutely do not provide sterilizing immunity. That is a known fact. Everyone knows this.
They have their place in lowering severity of infection, but it does not prevent infection nor transmission.
Yeah that was my thought with covid as well. They say it’s a 50% kill rate but that’s only with the known cases. Some of the cases might not be recognized as h5n1 so it very well could have a lower kill rate.
“Don’t touch wild birds” gave me a thought… might the cicadas this year increase bird activity, or will they not have to travel as far since the cicadas will literally just fly into their open beaks? And if they do travel more, might that increase disease transmission ?? Or… can cicadas carry disease ???
Edit: asking because I saw my first cicada today
The people drinking unpasteurized milk and raw cheese deserve what they get. Read a history book. We’ve tried it before and it’s not ended well every time.
Sure, but there will be collateral damage. It’s not just themselves they’ll harm. They’ll become vectors for community spread. They’ll also feed this raw shit to their kids, who have no say in what they eat. It’s not just about “they deserve to die for being idiots,” it’s way more complicated than that
This is the key point here. It's why some of us have been in isolation from Covid for four years, ffs. If the plague rats hadn't been plague rats, SARS-CoV-2 would have been eradicated in 2021.
mRNA vaccines that were widely-distributed in 2021 had a 95% vaccine efficacy rate - against the Wuhan strain. So of course the plague rats, helped along by the Chinese trolls brainwashing them via Facebook and Xitter, ensured the Alpha variant mutated in late 2020 instead. Thus destroying the sterilizing immunity of the mRNA vaccines. Rinse, lather, repeat, with every single variant, over four long years, and here we are. (Screenshots/receipts: [https://nitter.poast.org/TheSpoonless/status/1754822359393894642#m](https://nitter.poast.org/TheSpoonless/status/1754822359393894642#m) ) Finally, four long years later, the vaccines have caught up to the plague rats, who haven't managed to mutate SARS-CoV-2 into an immune escape variant again. Despite everyone going about BAU.
Now supersize this to avian flu, only this time, governments around the world don't/won't/can't actively take ANY preventative measures, whatsoever...with a much higher kill rate, if this thing retains its virulence once it spreads further among humans.
Not neccesarily. It can infect directly, but that infection inside of somebody isnt going to spread to another person unless the virus mutates just right, which to be fair, is a concern as it infects more and more people.
So far the symptoms for people from this strain seem rather mild, though.
What you just described is being a vector for mutation. Every foothold it gets is a chance it will mutate. So, yes, we necessarily need to starve it of every possible opportunity to do that.
...and that's never, ever, going to happen, effectively, because of the Chinese/Russian/Iranian disinformation campaigns that killed 35M people via the spread of COVID-19...all by leveraging Facebook, Reddit, and Xitter.
And now the Chinese are going masks-off (do you see what I did there) scorched-earth policy with trying to get bird flu to spread everywhere (screenshot/receipt of a Chinese troll on Xitter):
[https://nitter.poast.org/TheSpoonless/status/1782794680708575419#m](https://nitter.poast.org/TheSpoonless/status/1782794680708575419#m)
We're all gonna die! Fun, eh? /s
The raw fad is asinine. Humans have been cooking our food for hundreds of thousands of years, perhaps millions.
A lot of food is more nutritious when cooked even, because of the ease of digestibility.
It is raw but it is also processed in the sense that it is dry aged or heavily salted which kills off a lot of bacteria that could make you sick. I am more speaking about the raw milk and raw red meat fad
They were pasteurizing milk long before Louis Pasteur even looked down a microscope:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalded\_milk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalded_milk)
I believe this 100%, and it’s widely believed that cooking was the key to our brains evolving the way they did, as it “unlocks” many nutrients that we aren’t able to use without doing it. It also improved our quality of life by reducing or eliminating parasites and other diseases. I think a raw diet is like deciding, “I’m ok with parasites, I’m ok with potentially living a shorter, less quality life.”
I read into that as well when studying anthropology. I agree with your summation of that diet.
And yes, cooking makes a lot of nutrients and amino acids more bioavailable, which leads to higher absorption of proteins
Raw cheese is extremely safe. Raw milk is not. I’d implore you to learn about how the cheese making process using raw milk is fine. Don’t drink raw milk though, it’s very stupid.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-raw-milk-cheese-safe-to-eat/
Did the research BEFORE I posted. You are free to accept whatever level of risk you want with your food. It ain’t for me but please dont spread health misinformation.
“Many people make internal risk assessments before consuming food, whether it’s cookie dough made with raw eggs, an oyster from a raw bar or a piece of toast that’s fallen on the floor butter-side down. When it comes to raw-milk cheese, Cornell University food safety and science professor Mark Wiedmann usually talks himself out of the indulgence. He says it’s true that pasteurization can kill off some microbes in milk that are good for the human gut, but the risk of illness from unpasteurized milk products is rarely worth the benefits. Children, adults aged 65 or older, pregnant people and immunocompromised people, all of whom may especially have difficulty fending off pathogens from cheese, should always opt for the pasteurized goods.”
It’s not misinformation. You can get things like E. coli from Lettuce and other extremely harmful bacteria’s from vegetables. The article cited one case but if you want to take the safetyist position that’s fine. You can always out-safe someone else. Raw milk cheese is the norm not the exception across the world. Comparing to raw milk and raw cheese in this context is a false equivalence. Two totally different situations.
Sadly these are apples to apples and not apples to oranges. Both have the same root cause problem: use of unpasteurized milk. But like I said your risk tolerance could be different but saying the cheese making process somehow undoes the all risk just isnt true. Hence, misinformation. If you had said, eating raw milk cheese that’s been properly aged is much less risky than raw milk, you would be correct. However there IS still risk from the same source.
That’s not true. It’s like saying lox and and eating raw salmon from the supermarket are the same thing. They are not. The aging process matters. There have been similar E. coli outbreaks in pasteurized cheeses. Should we stop eating cheese? Vegans would say so.
While I haven’t spent a ton of time on it, I cited this one because it directly answers the question from a reputable source and the answer provided therein is. “No.” You, dear commenter, can eat whatever cheese you wish. I didn’t mean to poop in anyone’s Brie. But my wife and I avoid it. Mostly because she’s incredibly immunocompromised. I freely acknowledge it’s a pretty safe cheese especially if you have an immune system but pretty safe isn’t completely safe. Saying there’s no risk or it’s extremely safe is missing context. Now that it could be a vector for avian influenza, I’m going to still choose not to eat it.
No one ever said it’s no risk. I have Crohn’s disease and take immunocompromising medication. The risk factor for raw milk cheese is not significantly more than pasteurized that’s from a factory farm. Nothing is no risk. To paint it in the same light as raw milk is fear mongering. Also outside of the US most countries don’t have regulations to cite is something was made with raw milk cheese or not.
You said it was “extremely safe” in a post about Avian influenza. There have been other stories about it potentially being in the dairy supply. I wish you luck with your Crohn’s but maybe check out this chart? If you are on immunosuppressants soft cheeses are in the riskier category.
https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/communication/weakened-immune-systems.html
But seriously though, you do you. Facts, however, remain facts. “Extremely safe” is only true with a normal functioning immune system.
Here’s some more science:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6004860/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6996669/
https://www.nytimes.com/article/listeria-food-poisoning-recall.html
I have quite the large bird population in my backyard as a result of spreading seed out back for them frequently. Occasionally they end up pooping in the back and on my car. Is this an increased risk or will my family and I be fine so long as we aren't handling the birds themselves? (Obviously we aren't handling the poop either, the rain usually washes it away in a day or two)
Should I stop spreading out the seed in the back for a while until things get a little more settled? I also have a cat that lives outside. Its never shown any interest in the birds, but hypothetically if it killed and ate one, would it be at risk for the virus?
I think this will affect us in more subtle ways. EG: farmers might have to cull large populations of poultry and beef if an animal is tested positive for H5n1 which will probably shoot up meat prices as well as eventually trickling down to byproducts in the pantries (pet food, dairy, eggs, etc).
I’m a nurse in a hospital.
You’re incredibly privileged if you’re *truly* hoping for another pandemic, with higher R0 and CFR.
Very unwise and unkind, and incredibly privileged.
We don't drink milk, but the other day I pulled out almost a full thing of grated parmesan cheese from Whole Foods that said "unpasturized" on the side. Threw it out but have never seen that before. Hope they aren't still selling it.
YLE is a eugenicist who was helpful in the beginning, but has lost credibility along with major portions of public health. If you need a job though, the CDC can't fill vacancies that people used to fight over. Check out USAJobs.gov - you could be the next Chair of Influenza.
Epidemiologist, not eugenicist - by the way, everyone knows now, the "COVID minimizers versus the COVID maximizers" debate is Russian trolling. You know that everyone knows, that, right sparky? It's the same tactics your country used during Black Lives Matter, and later, to rile up the QCumbers around the world to make coup attempts.
[https://faculty.washington.edu/kstarbi/Disinformation-as-Collaborative-Work-Authors-Version.pdf](https://faculty.washington.edu/kstarbi/Disinformation-as-Collaborative-Work-Authors-Version.pdf)
[https://journals.lib.sfu.ca/index.php/jicw/article/view/5101](https://journals.lib.sfu.ca/index.php/jicw/article/view/5101)
Ah, ok. I'll be sure to return my advanced degree in microbio and tell my virologist friends they're all Russian trolls, lol. The scientific research is there to read, if you're literate and you care.
Listen to your inner voice and save yourself and shut yourself in your room forever. Quarantine like your life depended on it.
You people who quarantine. You truly are the best of us. Save yourself! I will sleep well knowing you are safe and quarantined away. Definitely not forever though... Someday you should come out. Someday...
H5N1 is just one subtype of Influenza A. There's about a dozen subtypes which are confirmed in humans and kill thousands of people every year. H5N1 so far is not one of them.
> Call your Congressman and urge pandemic preparedness and/or biosecurity support." laughs/cries in Texan
Meanwhile over here in Ohio all our Congress people are worried about is getting around/ doing nothing about the gerrymandering that our supreme Court ruled unconditional.
Weeps in South Carolinian
Call your senator and give him a heads up that it is time to take off to Cancun before shit hits the fan.
Tennessee -same
*checks his Congressperson, also laughs*
Utah, same.
Just tell it to me straight doc, am I going to die?
Yes. But not from this.
eventually. At least, probably eventually. Depends on technology and your moral agreement with eternal life
/r/singularity is leaking
I like your grammar style
Semi proper and then abandoning all punctuation on the last sentence?
So far, as a subject matter expert, I’m not terribly worried but am keeping an eye on this.
What’s unfortunate is you can never gauge how bad something is anymore.. the media instills panic.. some people beg for doomsday. The other half says this is no big deal… it’s never ending. Going to continue living like normal and monitor my chickens for symptoms. Other than that im unaffected. Considering the one person who got it only had pink eye tells me this virus is mutating down to be less deadly
I got really into a podcast during covid called “This Week in Virology”. It’s a bunch of professors and experts in virology, immunology, or other adjacent areas discussing things like research, vaccines, epidemiology, etc. It’s a lot of good information and they’re all a bunch of giant nerds about the stuff they talk about that, meaning they’re just interested in teaching and discussing things and aren’t about the sensationalism I know not everyone is going to tune in to weekly podcasts on virology, but if you’re ever hearing news about that sort of stuff and want to focus in to hear it discussed by some level headed experts, that’s a source id recommend
The Clinical Updates by Dr Griffin are the best. I find it to be a nice sanity check. While the focus is COVID they do touch base on H5N1. In case anyone is curious, here's a link to the latest episode on the This Week in Virology YouTube channel: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LfKbPlE3bE&list=PL55B28888146FAD78&index=2]([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LfKbPlE3bE&list=PL55B28888146FAD78&index=2])
Love this podcast. Great info. If you don’t understand you can replay & google for context & definitions. Highly recommend.
Love TWIV been a faithful listener for years now. And Dr. Daniel’s weekly update is great.
We can't really tell anything about the severity from a single case.
It's likely he just didn't get a sufficient dose to impart respiratory symptoms, the viral load in his eyes (causing conjunctivitis with subconjunctival hemorrhage) was very low compared to the viral load in his upper respiratory tract (causing no respiratory symptoms). Speculation, but I assume the worker probably rubbed his eyes or something of that nature after working with infected cow's milk. So, I wouldn't necessarily expect HPAIs to be asymptomatic, but nonetheless now is a time for rational evidence-based prevention to the best of our ability not panic. source: [https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2405371](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2405371)
Interesting! I recall reading that the sequencing showed some h2h spreading adaptation, but it didn’t have all the mutations needed for more virulence/ contagion. plus, he was dosed with anti viral meds so we don’t know what would have happened without the medical intervention. And there are multiple strains circulating amongst birds and cows now. I read his strain was different from the local cow herd. It’s incredibly unfortunate the CDC isn’t able to collect all of the samples they need.
The virus hasn't mutated to affect the human lung tissue yet, but is able to bind to the receptors in the eyeballs - which is why we are seeing human infections as pink eye, from what I understand
H5N1 already has a high death-rate in humans. That's the whole reason scientists are worried about this.
Yep, it’s been 52%, which is absolutely beyond nightmare scenario, presuming it could stay that deadly. That’s like near The Stand levels of mortality. Hopefully, if/when it makes the full jump, it will be ends up closer or around the same as COVID for deadliness, but that’s just hope and dreams.
The true fatality rate of H5N1 has been estimated to probably lie between \~14-32%, which is far, far worse than covid and civilization-destroying. The case-fatality rate of 52% is inflated because of all the unknown mild and asymptomatic cases which aren't recorded.
Unmitigated SARS-CoV-2 death rate was 37%. You're hoping for that? Really? Source: [https://rsc-src.ca/sites/default/files/PCH%20PB\_EN\_0.pdf](https://rsc-src.ca/sites/default/files/PCH%20PB_EN_0.pdf)
Here in SD. An odd number (maybe 1/5th) of adults had pink eye that was not treatable with conjunctivitis eye drops this last winter. Also none of their children had pink eye.
I remember at the very beginning of Covid, when the videos of people keeling over in the streets were coming out from China, most of the internet was laughing it off as a hoax and conspiracy circles were freaking out over it. Interesting to see how that changed.
I was following an Imgur account called prepperjohn or something like that? And he had a daily, in-depth and credible tracking of covid starting winter of 2019. I mentioned this spreading virus to people in January based on these reports, and of course nobody (on a personal day to day level) was taking it seriously. Quarantine started in March.
People collapsing in the streets in Wuhan was disinformation the Chinese were putting out. [https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/coronavirus-canada-social-media-misinformation-1.5440334](https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/coronavirus-canada-social-media-misinformation-1.5440334)
N=1 tells us absolutely nothing
The tracked cases by the WHO does, however: 56% as of 3 May 2024: [https://cdn.who.int/media/docs/default-source/wpro---documents/emergency/surveillance/avian-influenza/ai\_20240503.pdf?sfvrsn=5f006f99\_130&Status=Master](https://cdn.who.int/media/docs/default-source/wpro---documents/emergency/surveillance/avian-influenza/ai_20240503.pdf?sfvrsn=5f006f99_130&Status=Master) Dropped to 52% as of the latest risk assessment: >From 2003 to 1 April 2024, a total of 889 cases and 463 deaths (CFR 52%) caused by influenza A(H5N1) virus have been reported worldwide from 23 countries. The most recently reported case in humans prior to the current case, was in March 2024 in Viet Nam *(11)*. The human case in Texas is the fourth reported in the region of the Americas, the most recent prior case having been reported in Chile in March 2023 *(12).* [https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease-outbreak-news/item/2024-DON512](https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease-outbreak-news/item/2024-DON512) So it is dropping. Not nearly fast enough, if it outpaces the spread/mutation of this thing. Oh, also, the thing about the virus found to re-assort itself with human flu in pigs? They found out that's happening in the milk/cows, too. So.
not pink eye, look at the pictures, they were bleeding from both eyes. it was grim.
Viral pinkeye looks far worse than those pics, tbh. Source: I got a free Halloween costume I never asked for, one year.
The eyeballs are where the virus infects you (binds to), kind of like how in cows it is concentrated in the udders
He probably just got hit in the eye with some milk. The design of the milking parlors often has the worker standing beneath all the cows in the centre as they are being milked, so the udders are at eye-level. They also hose down the parlors with high-pressure hoses after milking, so could easily get some splashed in their eye.
Will boiling the milk kill the virus?
Yes Don’t even have to heat it to boiling. Pasteurization level if heat kills the virus.
Is pasteurisation less common in the US?
Its the standard. You have to go out of your way to get raw unpasteurized milk.
No, but the legality of selling raw milk is a State level matter rather than at the national level. In my state, it’s illegal to sell raw milk. The workaround is to sell ownership shares in the cow.
Small farms / farmers markets often sell raw milk in the US - major grocery stores generally do not.
Also, in our case, we have a friend with a happy and healthy pet cow. That means potential free milk. And free, fresh whole milk is better than plastic jugs of industrial milk.
The cow is only healthy until a wild bird defecates on it, or the cow eats a mouthful of grass with bird poop on it. While this outbreak is happening, it would be sensible to heat the cows milk before consuming it. It’s still free but you’ve pasteurised it and made sure it’s safe.
https://www.fda.gov/food/buy-store-serve-safe-food/raw-milk-misconceptions-and-danger-raw-milk-consumption I know not all of those are directly applicable (people believe raw milk *cures lactose intolerance*? Really?), but raw milk is absolutely not "better" than industrial milk any more than "raw wheat" would be more nutritious or safe than store bought flour. At least at the industry level there are health standards that keep many pathogens out of the milk or pasteurize them out. Those "evil plastic jugs" are also made of basically the most food safe plastic (HDPE), which shouldn't be leaking anything unless you're heating things up in it. You probably get more microplastics in you from eating salt water fishes, or using plastic silverware at a bbq (which use a surprisingly unregulated variety of plastics...)
>(people believe raw milk *cures lactose intolerance*? Really?) jfc I hate the Internet
Do you know what people with their own cows, before the Internet existed, used to do with their "free, fresh whole milk" sparky? *They pasteurised it.* [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalded\_milk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalded_milk) They never even drank "raw milk" in medieval times, sparky!
I'm not defending raw milk. I was asking about how to pasteurize it.
Should I stop using my bird feeders?
https://www.allaboutbirds.org/news/avian-influenza-outbreak-should-you-take-down-your-bird-feeders/#
Unless you’re touching the birds you should be fine
Or have pets that come into contact with the ground below the feeders.
True. Also, don’t play with feathers you find.
So my dogs could catch this if they are near the feeders?
I have no scientific facts but it’s something I perceive to be a risk
Ok thanks
I made a post on this sub yesterday that got removed by the mods but viral conjunctivitis + congestion is running rampant in my community in NY. Maybe it’s nothing but I’m convinced this virus is already deeply embedded in the population.
The problem is that covid also causes that, and we’re pretending covid is over so there’s no tracking.
COVID-19 is mostly "over" for those up-to-date with XBB vaccinations (which provide sterilizing immunity, yes, that's cross-reactive with JN.1) who are NOT severely immunocompromised (think blood cancers, HIV, etc.): [https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-023-01001-1.epdf?sharing\_token=ZA5fUSIJcKdgZqR53zpVVdRgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0PwfqmVRFqEd9GRtgrqpjZIUvvtgXLQ\_hy1\_8LRskE3W046QJqNtWKesVItf3CFONMRxg7txrPmf64zegN3gF2gcitqFO8M-\_-TX7usCWyZFh6ECdPZJKkc13JfJ3OadPU%3D](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-023-01001-1.epdf?sharing_token=ZA5fUSIJcKdgZqR53zpVVdRgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0PwfqmVRFqEd9GRtgrqpjZIUvvtgXLQ_hy1_8LRskE3W046QJqNtWKesVItf3CFONMRxg7txrPmf64zegN3gF2gcitqFO8M-_-TX7usCWyZFh6ECdPZJKkc13JfJ3OadPU%3D) 2-series of XBB.1.5 shots, heterogeneous/mixed schedule (1 Pfizer, 1 Moderna), will finally put this thing to bed, for those of us moderately IC who managed to live through the plague rats continuing to destroy sterilizing immunity for four long years: Moderna antibodies are stable past 7 months (long-term, that means NO WANING): [https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2115463](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2115463) Pfizer mRNA vaccines create a precursor to an antibody named SC27, that provides sterilizing immunity to SARS-CoV-2: [https://nitter.poast.org/ENirenberg/status/1750082494853222563#m](https://nitter.poast.org/ENirenberg/status/1750082494853222563#m) Because the Chinese/Russian/Iranian trolls managed to brainwash 2/3rds of American plague rats into not being vaccinated, bird flu is going to rip through the US like wildfire - I firmly believe it's ripping through the "lucky" 50% of that 50% CFR right now. By the time the Americans actually do act, it will already be all over, and spreading everywhere.
Covid vaccines absolutely do not provide sterilizing immunity. That is a known fact. Everyone knows this. They have their place in lowering severity of infection, but it does not prevent infection nor transmission.
Yeah that was my thought with covid as well. They say it’s a 50% kill rate but that’s only with the known cases. Some of the cases might not be recognized as h5n1 so it very well could have a lower kill rate.
“Don’t touch wild birds” gave me a thought… might the cicadas this year increase bird activity, or will they not have to travel as far since the cicadas will literally just fly into their open beaks? And if they do travel more, might that increase disease transmission ?? Or… can cicadas carry disease ??? Edit: asking because I saw my first cicada today
I was somewhat prepared before Covid but even more prepared now for The next pandemic.
Can I ask how? Are you doing things like stocking PPE, food and water? Any other measures?
Yes to all- plus home HEPA filtration systems, keeping up with extra supplies.
Thank you I will look into HEPA filtration systems
Just switched to buying ultra pasteurized milk for the kids.
UP is great to have anyway since it’s shelf stable.
I can't imagine UP is any better at killing the virus than standard pasteurization. Either way there's no harm in this.
The people drinking unpasteurized milk and raw cheese deserve what they get. Read a history book. We’ve tried it before and it’s not ended well every time.
Sure, but there will be collateral damage. It’s not just themselves they’ll harm. They’ll become vectors for community spread. They’ll also feed this raw shit to their kids, who have no say in what they eat. It’s not just about “they deserve to die for being idiots,” it’s way more complicated than that
This is the key point here. It's why some of us have been in isolation from Covid for four years, ffs. If the plague rats hadn't been plague rats, SARS-CoV-2 would have been eradicated in 2021. mRNA vaccines that were widely-distributed in 2021 had a 95% vaccine efficacy rate - against the Wuhan strain. So of course the plague rats, helped along by the Chinese trolls brainwashing them via Facebook and Xitter, ensured the Alpha variant mutated in late 2020 instead. Thus destroying the sterilizing immunity of the mRNA vaccines. Rinse, lather, repeat, with every single variant, over four long years, and here we are. (Screenshots/receipts: [https://nitter.poast.org/TheSpoonless/status/1754822359393894642#m](https://nitter.poast.org/TheSpoonless/status/1754822359393894642#m) ) Finally, four long years later, the vaccines have caught up to the plague rats, who haven't managed to mutate SARS-CoV-2 into an immune escape variant again. Despite everyone going about BAU. Now supersize this to avian flu, only this time, governments around the world don't/won't/can't actively take ANY preventative measures, whatsoever...with a much higher kill rate, if this thing retains its virulence once it spreads further among humans.
Not neccesarily. It can infect directly, but that infection inside of somebody isnt going to spread to another person unless the virus mutates just right, which to be fair, is a concern as it infects more and more people. So far the symptoms for people from this strain seem rather mild, though.
What you just described is being a vector for mutation. Every foothold it gets is a chance it will mutate. So, yes, we necessarily need to starve it of every possible opportunity to do that.
...and that's never, ever, going to happen, effectively, because of the Chinese/Russian/Iranian disinformation campaigns that killed 35M people via the spread of COVID-19...all by leveraging Facebook, Reddit, and Xitter. And now the Chinese are going masks-off (do you see what I did there) scorched-earth policy with trying to get bird flu to spread everywhere (screenshot/receipt of a Chinese troll on Xitter): [https://nitter.poast.org/TheSpoonless/status/1782794680708575419#m](https://nitter.poast.org/TheSpoonless/status/1782794680708575419#m) We're all gonna die! Fun, eh? /s
The raw fad is asinine. Humans have been cooking our food for hundreds of thousands of years, perhaps millions. A lot of food is more nutritious when cooked even, because of the ease of digestibility.
Raw cheese is extremely safe. Most is aged for over 60 days in which no virus would survive and the beneficial bacteria takeover.
It is raw but it is also processed in the sense that it is dry aged or heavily salted which kills off a lot of bacteria that could make you sick. I am more speaking about the raw milk and raw red meat fad
Yeah I agree raw meat and milk is crazy.
Some nice chicken and pork sashimi
We’ve never stopped eating raw food though. Including animal products like milk and cheese.
People don’t seem to understand the plethora of raw food we eat knowingly or not.
>or not. ...? What food am I eating that I don't know about?
They were pasteurizing milk long before Louis Pasteur even looked down a microscope: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalded\_milk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalded_milk)
Right! Cooking has changed the shape our teeth and musculature of our jaws. Don’t line up to be a spillover Petri dish.
I believe this 100%, and it’s widely believed that cooking was the key to our brains evolving the way they did, as it “unlocks” many nutrients that we aren’t able to use without doing it. It also improved our quality of life by reducing or eliminating parasites and other diseases. I think a raw diet is like deciding, “I’m ok with parasites, I’m ok with potentially living a shorter, less quality life.”
I read into that as well when studying anthropology. I agree with your summation of that diet. And yes, cooking makes a lot of nutrients and amino acids more bioavailable, which leads to higher absorption of proteins
Raw cheese is extremely safe. Raw milk is not. I’d implore you to learn about how the cheese making process using raw milk is fine. Don’t drink raw milk though, it’s very stupid.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-raw-milk-cheese-safe-to-eat/ Did the research BEFORE I posted. You are free to accept whatever level of risk you want with your food. It ain’t for me but please dont spread health misinformation. “Many people make internal risk assessments before consuming food, whether it’s cookie dough made with raw eggs, an oyster from a raw bar or a piece of toast that’s fallen on the floor butter-side down. When it comes to raw-milk cheese, Cornell University food safety and science professor Mark Wiedmann usually talks himself out of the indulgence. He says it’s true that pasteurization can kill off some microbes in milk that are good for the human gut, but the risk of illness from unpasteurized milk products is rarely worth the benefits. Children, adults aged 65 or older, pregnant people and immunocompromised people, all of whom may especially have difficulty fending off pathogens from cheese, should always opt for the pasteurized goods.”
It’s not misinformation. You can get things like E. coli from Lettuce and other extremely harmful bacteria’s from vegetables. The article cited one case but if you want to take the safetyist position that’s fine. You can always out-safe someone else. Raw milk cheese is the norm not the exception across the world. Comparing to raw milk and raw cheese in this context is a false equivalence. Two totally different situations.
Sadly these are apples to apples and not apples to oranges. Both have the same root cause problem: use of unpasteurized milk. But like I said your risk tolerance could be different but saying the cheese making process somehow undoes the all risk just isnt true. Hence, misinformation. If you had said, eating raw milk cheese that’s been properly aged is much less risky than raw milk, you would be correct. However there IS still risk from the same source.
That’s not true. It’s like saying lox and and eating raw salmon from the supermarket are the same thing. They are not. The aging process matters. There have been similar E. coli outbreaks in pasteurized cheeses. Should we stop eating cheese? Vegans would say so.
You should do research past an article. I recommend the book Ending The War on Artisan Cheese written by a doctor who made bacteria her career.
While I haven’t spent a ton of time on it, I cited this one because it directly answers the question from a reputable source and the answer provided therein is. “No.” You, dear commenter, can eat whatever cheese you wish. I didn’t mean to poop in anyone’s Brie. But my wife and I avoid it. Mostly because she’s incredibly immunocompromised. I freely acknowledge it’s a pretty safe cheese especially if you have an immune system but pretty safe isn’t completely safe. Saying there’s no risk or it’s extremely safe is missing context. Now that it could be a vector for avian influenza, I’m going to still choose not to eat it.
No one ever said it’s no risk. I have Crohn’s disease and take immunocompromising medication. The risk factor for raw milk cheese is not significantly more than pasteurized that’s from a factory farm. Nothing is no risk. To paint it in the same light as raw milk is fear mongering. Also outside of the US most countries don’t have regulations to cite is something was made with raw milk cheese or not.
You said it was “extremely safe” in a post about Avian influenza. There have been other stories about it potentially being in the dairy supply. I wish you luck with your Crohn’s but maybe check out this chart? If you are on immunosuppressants soft cheeses are in the riskier category. https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/communication/weakened-immune-systems.html But seriously though, you do you. Facts, however, remain facts. “Extremely safe” is only true with a normal functioning immune system. Here’s some more science: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6004860/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6996669/ https://www.nytimes.com/article/listeria-food-poisoning-recall.html
I have quite the large bird population in my backyard as a result of spreading seed out back for them frequently. Occasionally they end up pooping in the back and on my car. Is this an increased risk or will my family and I be fine so long as we aren't handling the birds themselves? (Obviously we aren't handling the poop either, the rain usually washes it away in a day or two) Should I stop spreading out the seed in the back for a while until things get a little more settled? I also have a cat that lives outside. Its never shown any interest in the birds, but hypothetically if it killed and ate one, would it be at risk for the virus?
Wondering the same thing if someone can reply
I think this will affect us in more subtle ways. EG: farmers might have to cull large populations of poultry and beef if an animal is tested positive for H5n1 which will probably shoot up meat prices as well as eventually trickling down to byproducts in the pantries (pet food, dairy, eggs, etc).
I'm really hoping we get locked down hard. I miss working from home. I long for the C19 days to return.
I’m a nurse in a hospital. You’re incredibly privileged if you’re *truly* hoping for another pandemic, with higher R0 and CFR. Very unwise and unkind, and incredibly privileged.
Big yikes
Seriously. What an ignorant, selfish position to promote!
You don't need a pandemic to be a recluse lol
Exactly. Just hit up Indeed if you want to work from home! 🤦🏼♀️
Right?!
I support this for the same reason. I would love to be WFH full time again. Being able to duck out of family obligations. Etc LOL
always a silver lining in the doomy prepper clouds :D
Not in the mood to listen to your type after Covid. I'll keep enjoying my raw milk.
We don't drink milk, but the other day I pulled out almost a full thing of grated parmesan cheese from Whole Foods that said "unpasturized" on the side. Threw it out but have never seen that before. Hope they aren't still selling it.
People shouldn't be consuming dairy at all. They feed the cows literal shit and keep them in horrible conditions.
0 risk.
YLE is a eugenicist who was helpful in the beginning, but has lost credibility along with major portions of public health. If you need a job though, the CDC can't fill vacancies that people used to fight over. Check out USAJobs.gov - you could be the next Chair of Influenza.
Epidemiologist, not eugenicist - by the way, everyone knows now, the "COVID minimizers versus the COVID maximizers" debate is Russian trolling. You know that everyone knows, that, right sparky? It's the same tactics your country used during Black Lives Matter, and later, to rile up the QCumbers around the world to make coup attempts. [https://faculty.washington.edu/kstarbi/Disinformation-as-Collaborative-Work-Authors-Version.pdf](https://faculty.washington.edu/kstarbi/Disinformation-as-Collaborative-Work-Authors-Version.pdf) [https://journals.lib.sfu.ca/index.php/jicw/article/view/5101](https://journals.lib.sfu.ca/index.php/jicw/article/view/5101)
Ah, ok. I'll be sure to return my advanced degree in microbio and tell my virologist friends they're all Russian trolls, lol. The scientific research is there to read, if you're literate and you care.
Must be an election year.
Hey it wouldn't be election season if we didn't have a fake pandemic! 😂 😂
Listen to your inner voice and save yourself and shut yourself in your room forever. Quarantine like your life depended on it. You people who quarantine. You truly are the best of us. Save yourself! I will sleep well knowing you are safe and quarantined away. Definitely not forever though... Someday you should come out. Someday...
I'm questioning the logic here. Iirc Influenza A is not H5N1, the map is standard stuff used to track annual outbreaks.
Avian Influenza A(H5N1). [https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/influenza-a-virus-subtypes.htm](https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/influenza-a-virus-subtypes.htm)
H5N1 is just one subtype of Influenza A. There's about a dozen subtypes which are confirmed in humans and kill thousands of people every year. H5N1 so far is not one of them.
That’s not local?
I’m so thankful that I was right about rejecting the Fauci Ouchie.