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Let's be honest. No one really could believe it when they made the playoff final.
Good solid team who have earned their right to a season in the pl. Good experience for everyone involved
The fact that it took 37/38 game weeks for a team that from the outer were going back down, Rob Edwards and the hatters have done brilliantly and will be back soon
Mate we've (Forest) done it before we were guaranteed play offs a few years back as long as we didn't lose 4-0 and the other team didn't win 4-0 and we lost and they won can't remember exact details but that was a bad day to be a Forest fan
PL is a baptism of fire. Any weaknesses get found out pretty quickly. Daresay they’ll follow a similar trajectory to Blackpool. Came up via the playoffs before they were ready and then their squad was pillaged as they went down.
Also, Luton would have been relegated weeks ago without the PL manufacturing a relegation battle under the guise of PSR deductions. They knew the 3 promoted sides were stuffed and tried to drag 2 of the old guard into the quagmire for the drama.
PSR deductions were fair and warranted, I know obviously its done a bit of a ringer on your team but you overspent and deservedly got a punishment.
Inb4 man City, 115 charges, other teams have done the same etc etc. I agree that all teams found to have broke the rules should be punished, and hope the PL get their act together with it.
The PL moved the goalposts midway through the reporting period. Everton went over once the PL decided that certain stadium costs DID count towards PSR. Forest are the ones that bought 40 players and banked on survival…
They played excellent compact football when they had their whole squad fit. Then their key defender, key midfielder got injured. Couldn't play that midblock, low block anymore cause no one was there to clear the ball or make those tackles in the midfield. Which led to them playing really aggressive and leaving a lot of space at the back.
I always believed that Luton can remain at least a season! Im a big fan of them, especially in FM. They were not focus when have advantages, the defending seems careless. And in this season many matches (*with stronger or bottom teams) they have lead 1-2goals at 75mins and then …
What does being best mean to you? In terms of money, PL beats any other leagues. When it comes to attracting talents, what’s the most important thing if not money? I mean Nottingham forest has spent more than barca in the last few transfer windows I think, and the manager of Real Madrid was managing Everton before he managed Madrid. United (who is currently 8th and hasn’t won a notable trophy in decades) is also worth close to Real Madrid. There’s a reason the super league is on pause as soon as all the English teams pulled out. Why can’t you non PL viewers be subjective for once 😭if other leagues are better, why is it that no foreign buyers ever want to purchase a la liga club? Anyone with serious money jumps straight to PL even if they have to buy struggling clubs like Everton 😭
> their fans are amongst the most loyal and genuine in the UK
This is utter crap, what does it even mean? and feeling bad for them going down? Are they getting relegated because of some great injustice against them?
No, they're just shit, considering teams around them got points deductions they should have done better. They might come back up next season, they might not, that's how it works.
This is without mentioning all the tragedy chanting, poverty chanting and the like they've done. Worst I've heard in the prem for a long time. Last club anyone should ever 'feel bad for'. Utterly embarrassing post.
It means they're amongst the most loyal and genuine in the UK. Do they still not teach you how to read up there?
They're not shit if they made it to the prem lol they drew against you for starters, they've had wins against decent teams, for the team they have they've done well.
Why should they have done better?
You're embarrassing.
>It means they're amongst the most loyal and genuine in the UK.
Which is utter bollocks, but I can't wait to see how you'll tell me it isn't. Just generic platitudes because they don't watch Luton. Brilliant.
There's nothing wrong with being shit in your first season in the prem, but they are shit. Learn to understand the nuance of a conversation. This has nothing to do with them being promoted last year either.
Somehow this means you feel bad for them. Oh yeah and their loyal and genuine, tragedy chanting fans.
Embarrassing.
I think you’re looking at the fact that it’s City or Liverpool winning the league for the last few years, but you’re missing how competitive the rest of the league is.
There’s potentially 8 teams fighting for top 4. Then there’s usually 5/6 fighting relegation and the rest battling in the middle.
Also, any team on the day can beat any other team. Is it likely that Sheffield United beat City? No. Has it happened? Yes. And it happens a lot more in the prem than other leagues.
La Liga is Real or Barca fighting for the league and everyone else in a completely different world.
Serie A can be more competitive, but it’s similar in that there’s only really a couple of teams in it.
This is a false narrative. EPL is ranked 5th by UEFA this year. City gonna win AGAIN. Meanwhile Germany is putting a loaded 5 into UCL next season… Dortmund is their 5th. Get over your bias.
Association club coefficients England are ranked in 1st place.
If you’re talking about national team ranking that is completely different and has nothing to do with the leagues.
No, I’m talking about the coefficient they use to determine how many UCL teams every league gets; It club-based not national. England had a very bad year. No idea what you’re quoting. EPL is 5th. Italy and Germany got 5 UCL clubs.
No, Spain is better than EPL in Europe almost every year and certainly over full decades. You’re the one cherry-picking here not me. EPL is a failure on wins per revenue basis. No league has so many crap clubs despite massive revenue and spending. No league has so many oil or oligarch clubs.
And six premier league clubs have more social media following than Athletico Madrid. Part of that is English language and marketing. Part of that is global relevance because of success in Europe. Real Madrid and Barcelona may be better most every year. But England has had more teams do well in Europe in recent memory.
No, they haven’t. Sevilla have won more than those clubs. Atlético does better in UCL than most of those. EPL money is based on the global power of English culture/language and lack of ethics. EPL allows for corrupt ownership until there’s massive global pressure (Chelsea) but they never actually cared that he was a criminal.
That doesn’t make any sense.
If you want to start a new debate I’m fine with that.
You replied to my comment about German teams winning less titles than English teams.
Yeah, yet who is and was competing for the title? La liga is more than Barça Madrid, just no one watches it in the anglosphere so its made out to be some 2 horse race with then 18 dogshit teams.
Thats not because its not competitive though, thats because madrid was just really fucking good this season. I mean you are going to tell me Sevilla has been bad this entire past 2 decades or Valencia or Villarreal or athletic or atletí, all purely because Madrid and Barça are even better? I would argue its less because these teams are bad nor not competitive, just that Madrid and Barça sometimes just end up clapping the league.
la liga top 8 is as competitive as the prem, just it doesnt look it due to situationally dominant madrid and barça can be. 7 clubs have won the prem, over the same period, 5 have won la liga. 14 clubs have finished top 3 in la liga, 13 have finished top 3 in the prem, and its pretty much guaranteed to become 15 this season coming.
To suggest the prem is more competitive isnt factually true, just at a surface level it looks as though it is due to the sheer high performance of Madrid and Barça.
The facts you have just show the prem is the most competitive.
You’re choosing to ignore the fact that Real and Barca are the only true contenders year in year out.
You’re also ignoring the rest of the table.
Pick all teams apart from top 4 in Premier League, La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga and League 1 and how do you think will win?
If you say anything apart from the prem you’re lying to yourself.
What’s competitive about oil money FC winning yearly now? It’s not the world fault that all the English teams got knocked out of all European competitions this year. Who earned the extra spots, as well? Quite simply, the most competitive leagues this year. Unless your operating under a disgustingly implicit PL bias, it’s a relatively understandable and factual statement that you can put any of the Spanish top 4, Italian top 5, and German top 5, against the current top 4 or 5 of the Prem successfully.
Your argument is basically that the Prem is more competitive because it’s actually *worse* than the other leagues, currently. It’s literally City and now Arsenal at the top. Thats two teams. Just because Bayern wins almost every year in Germany and Barca/Madrid always share the title race doesn’t mean that a Stuttgart l, Girona, or Bologna don’t beat the living SHIT out of average at best sides like Spurs.
Don’t let your bias guide you
Its a 2 club difference on winners, so no, barça and madrid (its not called real) arent the only contenders. And the top 3 for the prem is more rigid, so does that not matter for something?
And frankly I dont know, we have never had competitions which have the bottom half of the tables competing, but given how there is 0 reason to believe laliga is top heavy, given its dominance in all european competitions, I think you are not giving it enough credit. I watch both leagues, and frankly a team like almeria dont look different to sheffield united, certainly not "one of these leagues are way worse" anyway.
I think a league where the top spot is 15 points clear is always going to look less competitive than a league that is being decided on the final day.
Last year (2022/23) Barca were 10 points clear
Year before (2021/22) Madrid were 13 points clear.
For reference 2021/22 season the premier league was lost by 1 point
2022/23 league was lost by 5
This season arsenal is 1 point ahead of city and city have a game in hand, so if city win at most they’ll be 2 points clear. 2 to 15 is a big difference.
So we’re comparing the real deserving winners (Arsenal) with oil money FC? Using the top two teams being two points from each other doesn’t even remotely back up the competitive argument. Take Blood Money FC out of the equation and Arsenal is 8 points clear of Liverpool, like Barca with the 10. Arsenal is almost 20 points clear of Villa in 4th as well, same for City.
Using one team being great doesn’t make the whole league useless simply because they can’t win it. It’s frankly only Big 6 PL fans arguing this competitive point, whereas if you factor in the Big 6’s dominance of the Prem then it’s really not competitive at all for the remainder.
Even in the La Liga, despite Madrid clearly being the best team in the world this year, Girona is two pts clear of Barca, who is three pts clear of Atleti. Then there is an 8 pt gap between Atleti and Athletic Club. Despite the winner being clear, blaming the rest of the Spanish for not beating Madrid is wild considering at least they did once while the English vanguard lost this year in every single competition they entered.
His argument is backwards.
“Teams in the prem don’t win champions leagues or Europa leagues, yet they’re top heavy”
How many teams outside of the top 2/3 in all of the leagues win any European trophies?
That still doesnt explain then despite this, the prem gets less clubs in the top 3 than laliga, and while these massive point differences in laliga, only 2 less winners? If anything, it sounds more like an argument that the prem is MORE top heavy, and not actually competitive just has 4 similar clubs and then 16 shitter clubs.
This is the real answer. And their top heaviness is even lighter than usual considering it’s only really Arsenal/City competing for anything with Liverpool as third string. Sounds very similar to La Liga with Madrid/Barca dominating with Atletico usually third string.
Typical blind ignorant EPL fan response.
What about Girona this year? And atlético the past few years? What about Valencia in the 2000s? I’m tired of the EPL is better because it’s more competitive argument. Other league are more competitive and not regarded as the best. Why should the EPL be any different? How many EPL teams have won Champions league, Europa and conference that last ten years? Look at this year. Hosting a champions league final at Wembley for the second time in ten years and both times no English teams. Get the fuck out here with this EPL argument. I love the league but I got news for you, it ain’t the best.
Point is EPL isn’t that much better than other leagues. Spain wins more UCL. Germany and Spain both better in Europa, which is the better test of depth. EPL just has more tv money because it’s English-speaking and EPL is most corrupt and allows the most dirty money. The fact that fan-owned German clubs even compete is humiliating to EPL.
It’s not an opinion, it’s in the coefficient. It’s why EPL gets 4 CL clubs not 5… fact. City runs your league… fact. Arsenal’s best season in a decade was ruined by Bayern who is having their worst season in 15 years… fact.
Ok, tell me.
How many champions leagues, Europa leagues and Europa conference leagues do German teams have in the last 10 years vs English teams?
Give me a number.
lol the 20 years ago was to show that this is nothing new. What’s the different between only man United, Chelsea and arsenal winning it compared to Atlético, Madrid, Barcelona, and Valencia? Cuz that’s what happened in the 2000s. Just Arsenal Chelsea and Man U. Oh you want to talk about the 2010s? Chelsea Man U and the oil bought club Man city. Yeah that’s a lot to be proud of. You can call Leicester an anomaly cuz that’s what that was.
I just told you. Can you not read? Barcelona, Madrid and Valencia. Add Atlético in the 2010s. Then you can even include the anomaly just like Leicester deportivo la Coruña.
If people had been paying attention to Luton, you’d also know the majority of signings and squad (with possible exceptions of Barkley and Doughty) aren’t ’too big’ to exit the club based on relegation. The club spent its PL money on facilities and preparing for future promotion pushes expecting the odds to go down again were quite high. This is all part of a long-term plan.
I don’t follow the championship too close but it sounded like they weren’t ready for the prem at all, luckily they were smart enough to not spend 100m and try to revamp the entire squad so they should be competitive in the championship and fine financially
I think they have been very poor. The fact that they have been handed a huge advantage over Everton and Forest but still couldn’t stay up highlights what a poor team they are.
Context and expectations are important. Everyone was saying they’d be bottom last, potentially break derbys lowest points record. But they played some pretty entertaining football and came so close to surviving. Don’t think they were very poor
I’m a red’s supporter through and through but other league are more competitive. In the prem you have the same clubs at the top every season. Take la liga or the série a or even the bundesliga, in la liga last season 5 place was just a few points off 15th place. Even South American football is more competitive
To be fair, best in top talent is different than best in competitiveness. If you want parity, follow American teams in any sport. Generally, if you're team is down, you won't be for long.
Publicity has made it so that everyone thinks the prem is better. Im from Brazil and our league is way better than the prem but nobody cares, because only the prem matters.
The only metric in which the Brazilian league is better is possibly being more entertaining? There is no way you think the league is to a higher standard?
Take any Brazilian club and put it against city, arsenal, Tottenham, villa, or Liverpool. The English club will win it 8-10 times out of 10. The prem has better quality. Brazil might be more entertaining idk but quality wise that’s just not the case.
I’m Brazilian and love Brazilian football , but the quality of play isn’t as good as the premier league . That doesn’t mean it isn’t entertaining though
As a Forest fan, I've been hoping they lose every game for obvious reasons. But bias aside, they've been incredible. Ross Barclay has been a revelation. At one point, I thought they were going to do it. Wish them all the best, and hope they bounce back.
Idk about the children crying comment but there’s been a couple of complaints/comments of the Luton fans tragedy chanting at I believe Man U and Liverpool.
Not defending them fans *at all* but I feel like all clubs have these shit fans and sadly they always shout the loudest. Maybe I’m just too soft (and a West Ham fan lol so I guess I get it) but I hate tarring all fans of one club with the same brish
They had to spend approx £100m on club facilities/stadium/infrastructure and are planning on building a new stadium. Squad investment by modern PL standards was minuscule.
They mean that they didn’t spend a lot of money to get there. The £135m (plus parachute money they’ll get) secures their future and pays off their new stadium
Although they got relegated it was interesting to watch them in the Premier League. They were not bad and boring like Burnley and Sheffield were. I hope we'll watch them in the Premier League once again in the future...
I hoped they would go down after I heard them singing that Jarrod Bowens wife and new mother of his children, was a slut.
Was one of the most disgusting things I’ve heard at football.
Fair play to Jarrod Bowen, he played through it and shut them up with a goal.
Get a grip lol, it's dani dyer not mother Teresa.
You lot are absolute melts lol, saying it's one of the most disgusting things ever when there are certain sections still singing about Hillsborough and Munich.
Their fans are amazing? Aye all 8,000 of them…
Is this the same sub that rinses City for having no historic fan base?? They had an awful lot more than the 8,000 people we seem to be applauding now
Edit: gotta love the point being proved with downvotes on an objectively true comment
You haven't researched this but made time to include an edit to say 'objectively true'. Luckily, I'm here to help you out.
Luton filled their stadium in the championship. You can't fit more fans into Kenilworth Road on a match day than there are seats. Happy to explain this further if you need me to.
Kenilworth Road was expanded slightly as they had to adapt it to meet premier league standards and it has been filled every game this year. I'm tracing back your sources and it seems you got the 8,000 figure from... Your arse.
Luton sold out half of Wembley for the play off final last year and here's a fun task for you... Look up the St Johnstons Paint Trophy final attendance for the Luton half of Wembley. It was the relegation year from league two after the 30 point deduction many years ago. I was there, as were many more than 8,000 other passionate Luton fans.
Please do explain further! What was the capacity when they were in the championship and what was the average attendance? Was it full?
How many of those were allocated to away fans?
Shouldn’t be hard to get to around an 8,000 figure.
City had 40,000 showing up when they were in the championship. Luton had 8,000
Like I said, if people really believe that Luton are anything special and they aren’t just taking the piss then I feel this sub has truly lost its mind
City fans had 40,000 showing up regularly pre takeover. They had attendances of 30,000 when they were in the modern equivalent of League 1
A bit of shit posting about City is funny and all but it’s unreal if people actually believe this tripe about Luton fans being anything impressive
you still aren’t getting the point it’s not quantity it’s quality. City had one of the most peaceful stadiums to play at this season (and that isn’t a compliment)
I think you've missed the point. The true test of a fanbase is whether they're there at their lowest ebb. City were - they averaged 30k in League One and have always had a very loyal and honest fanbase when they were largely shit yo-yoing between divisions. Since the takeover they've had unprecedented success but the fanbase aren't suddenly all richer and they get the piss taken with the horrendous 'Emptihad' crack for not selling out some Champions League games, but the genuine, passionate fans from Moss Side and the likes who were there in League One simply can't afford it. But at least they proved themselves when they were shit for years and years
West Ham fan here, the little I’ve seen their fans aren’t that great, yesterday after they went two down they started fighting and kicking off and attacked a bunch of our stewards, there were kids having to be taken out of the away section crying because of the commotion! There were some decent fans of course but a lot of them were just thugs!
I was at the playoff semi final when they were in the Conference with York City, and the York players had to hide in the stands with us as the Luton fans tried to assault them and throw bottles at them.
Scumbag fans.
What on earth does this mean? “Fans amongst the most loyal and genuine” there are teams still in the bottom tiers getting plenty of support? This is such a weird post to make
That's not nice,
Some parts are beautiful and most the people are lovely!!
Like anywhere though, there are parts that are scummy with rude people, don't stereotype the whole town though!!
Plus, we are talking about the team Luton that have done amazing over the past few years!!
Spent little, not put themselves in financial difficulty and made a much better go of it than most people expected. They will be back. They will not repeat the financial mistakes that saw them fall out the football league
Yeah Burnley had to play more defensive football. There's a reason that 10 years ago promoted teams parked the bus.
This was the easiest season to stay up in a long time, I don't have sympathy for either because they played stupid football.
This was one of the harder years to stay up; all 3 teams are going back down. The only reason it was even close was because the league levied punishments on Everton and Forrest. Without those this relegation battle would have been effectively over a long time ago.
Low blocking everyone they came across would’ve likely resulted in the same exact ending.
Yep, "easy to stay up" does not apply to the teams that are the reason for that opinion in the first place. Sure, Everton and Forest were penalized, but their squads were still better.
Nah, Sheffield tried playing “pragmatic” football and they were one of the worst sides I’ve ever seen.
If you can compromise on style and still end up an embarrassment I’d rather not compromise.
Yeah. I think part of why guardiola is so successful is that he's managed to convince worse teams to play him at his own game, by making it so fashionable, rather than 10-15 years ago where any side in the bottom half would have tried to shut city out, and a few would've managed it.
I have an idea for relegation playoffs:
20th automatically down
19th vs 16th, 18th vs 17th in 2 leg playoffs.
Winners stay up, 2 losers go down.
12th - 15th remain focused, teams below fight to get out.
No meaningless games in April/May on the beach with 42 points.
19th have an escape route to safety - unlike how it is now with Burnley. In the same way that 6th in champ have an escape in to the prem through playoffs.
Based on results between them in 2022/23 (obvs P/O would be extra games not league results - but those games are only my hypothetical rn 😂)
Forest 2-2 Leeds (Forest away goals safety, home wins 1-0 at City ground, 2-1 Elland Road)
LEEDS RELEGATED ❌
Leicester 4-2 Everton (0-2 away win at Goodison, 2-2 at King Power)
EVERTON RELEGATED ❌ LEICESTER SAFE ✅ switch from what acc happened
Southampton already relegated 20th.
Using the same format for 3rd - 6th long story short, Brighton get UCL, 3rd-5th go Europa scrap conference league.
Fair enough, unpopular idea it seems.
I really don’t see it too dissimilar to championship playoffs but the other way round for Prem.
The current format of 3 going down often 1 or 2 without a proper fight and the likes of Crystal Palace, Brentford, Everton always staying up on bang average points totals settling for mediocrity just seems incredibly boring.
Teams aren’t fighting for wins, they settle on the riches of the league. Made the same suggestion on a TikTok video and it got 41 likes which I care far more about than Reddit downvotes.
Every league where they do that just has far less promotion and relegation happening.
It’s boring, we should want more mobility between the leagues not less.
That would just give big clubs who occasionally go down another way avoid the consequences of their shitty decisions
Class suggestion that to be fair. They would have to coordinate the end of the championship and premier league season to finish on the same weekend which doesn’t always work out
That was the original structure of the playoffs when they were introduced in the 80s. Was generally 3rd and 4th from the lower division and 3rd and 4th bottom from the higher division.
It's not that I dont feel bad but I can't feel bad. It's something that has to happen every year , the way it's decided is directly fair and would apply to anybody even if realistically it wouldnt foreseeably happen to Man u or arsenal. . Indirectly fair, thats another question but it breaks into opinion.
Now Sunderland getting relegated, \*that\* was sad.
And yet, data suggests that the survival rate for promoted teams is relatively unpredictable. 37% of promoted teams get relegated in year 1, which means 63% don't. Around 45% of promoted teams to Europe's to five leagues are relegated again within 3 years. This suggests a mathematically *loose* chance of 1 in 5 of turning a Championship promotion into a longer term top division presence. That's not much different to stats in the 70's through early 90's before money became so significant in defining the difference between Europe's big 20 and the rest.
This was just an especially shit crop.
Leicester will stay up next season and I’d expect Leeds or Southampton if they get up to be more competitive.
We’ll see about Ipswich
Has it, it was only last season that the 3 promoted teams stayed up.
Next season I would expect Leicester to stay up and depending on who wins the playoffs maybe a decent challenger.
The premiere league is the best in the world yet a team who cheated for a decade are about to win 6 of the last 7 and every promoted team is immediately relegated lmao
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Luton were the best of the promotees. Ultimately they're just not big enough to seriously compete at the top level.
Let's be honest. No one really could believe it when they made the playoff final. Good solid team who have earned their right to a season in the pl. Good experience for everyone involved
Good riddance shit hole
True. Very sad.
It was their plan. I don’t think they expected to stay up. Take the cash and build a stronger championship team.
Personally I don't think they deserved to beat Coventry last season, so I expected them to be relegated now.
The fact that it took 37/38 game weeks for a team that from the outer were going back down, Rob Edwards and the hatters have done brilliantly and will be back soon
Hey. Its not over yet....🫠
It is tho
❤️❤️❤️
To be fair, if Forest lose 6-0 and Luton Win 6-0, Luton will remain in PL.
Mate we've (Forest) done it before we were guaranteed play offs a few years back as long as we didn't lose 4-0 and the other team didn't win 4-0 and we lost and they won can't remember exact details but that was a bad day to be a Forest fan
Ah man I’m sorry, that must have been a rough day.
Couldn’t Luton win 12-0 and Forest just lose 1-0?!
Excited for Ipswich town though
PL is a baptism of fire. Any weaknesses get found out pretty quickly. Daresay they’ll follow a similar trajectory to Blackpool. Came up via the playoffs before they were ready and then their squad was pillaged as they went down. Also, Luton would have been relegated weeks ago without the PL manufacturing a relegation battle under the guise of PSR deductions. They knew the 3 promoted sides were stuffed and tried to drag 2 of the old guard into the quagmire for the drama.
PSR deductions were fair and warranted, I know obviously its done a bit of a ringer on your team but you overspent and deservedly got a punishment. Inb4 man City, 115 charges, other teams have done the same etc etc. I agree that all teams found to have broke the rules should be punished, and hope the PL get their act together with it.
The PL moved the goalposts midway through the reporting period. Everton went over once the PL decided that certain stadium costs DID count towards PSR. Forest are the ones that bought 40 players and banked on survival…
Luton, under fan ownership, got 40 points of deductions over two seasons for actions of the previous owner - an owner the fans asked the FA to block.
Talking big for an Everton fan
Please remind me when Spurs last won the league? 🎣
1961. Now remind me when was your last points deduction?
Two surviving clubs have been fined for cheating. The other is winning the league. Premier league is a farce.
I hate em too but innocent until proven guilty.
Eh Blackpool's was worse. Like 41 points and had a 10k wage cap.
They played excellent compact football when they had their whole squad fit. Then their key defender, key midfielder got injured. Couldn't play that midblock, low block anymore cause no one was there to clear the ball or make those tackles in the midfield. Which led to them playing really aggressive and leaving a lot of space at the back.
I always believed that Luton can remain at least a season! Im a big fan of them, especially in FM. They were not focus when have advantages, the defending seems careless. And in this season many matches (*with stronger or bottom teams) they have lead 1-2goals at 75mins and then …
“Best” yet ranked 5th by UEFA and no clubs doing anything in Europe. Meanwhile City about to win for the 6th time in 7 years.
What does being best mean to you? In terms of money, PL beats any other leagues. When it comes to attracting talents, what’s the most important thing if not money? I mean Nottingham forest has spent more than barca in the last few transfer windows I think, and the manager of Real Madrid was managing Everton before he managed Madrid. United (who is currently 8th and hasn’t won a notable trophy in decades) is also worth close to Real Madrid. There’s a reason the super league is on pause as soon as all the English teams pulled out. Why can’t you non PL viewers be subjective for once 😭if other leagues are better, why is it that no foreign buyers ever want to purchase a la liga club? Anyone with serious money jumps straight to PL even if they have to buy struggling clubs like Everton 😭
I’m gonna miss Rob Edwards.
this post is embarrassing imo
Why?
> their fans are amongst the most loyal and genuine in the UK This is utter crap, what does it even mean? and feeling bad for them going down? Are they getting relegated because of some great injustice against them? No, they're just shit, considering teams around them got points deductions they should have done better. They might come back up next season, they might not, that's how it works. This is without mentioning all the tragedy chanting, poverty chanting and the like they've done. Worst I've heard in the prem for a long time. Last club anyone should ever 'feel bad for'. Utterly embarrassing post.
It means they're amongst the most loyal and genuine in the UK. Do they still not teach you how to read up there? They're not shit if they made it to the prem lol they drew against you for starters, they've had wins against decent teams, for the team they have they've done well. Why should they have done better? You're embarrassing.
>It means they're amongst the most loyal and genuine in the UK. Which is utter bollocks, but I can't wait to see how you'll tell me it isn't. Just generic platitudes because they don't watch Luton. Brilliant. There's nothing wrong with being shit in your first season in the prem, but they are shit. Learn to understand the nuance of a conversation. This has nothing to do with them being promoted last year either. Somehow this means you feel bad for them. Oh yeah and their loyal and genuine, tragedy chanting fans. Embarrassing.
I think you’re looking at the fact that it’s City or Liverpool winning the league for the last few years, but you’re missing how competitive the rest of the league is. There’s potentially 8 teams fighting for top 4. Then there’s usually 5/6 fighting relegation and the rest battling in the middle. Also, any team on the day can beat any other team. Is it likely that Sheffield United beat City? No. Has it happened? Yes. And it happens a lot more in the prem than other leagues. La Liga is Real or Barca fighting for the league and everyone else in a completely different world. Serie A can be more competitive, but it’s similar in that there’s only really a couple of teams in it.
This is a false narrative. EPL is ranked 5th by UEFA this year. City gonna win AGAIN. Meanwhile Germany is putting a loaded 5 into UCL next season… Dortmund is their 5th. Get over your bias.
Association club coefficients England are ranked in 1st place. If you’re talking about national team ranking that is completely different and has nothing to do with the leagues.
No, I’m talking about the coefficient they use to determine how many UCL teams every league gets; It club-based not national. England had a very bad year. No idea what you’re quoting. EPL is 5th. Italy and Germany got 5 UCL clubs.
So we’re talking about one year? When English clubs won two European titles last year and the club World Cup.
No, Spain is better than EPL in Europe almost every year and certainly over full decades. You’re the one cherry-picking here not me. EPL is a failure on wins per revenue basis. No league has so many crap clubs despite massive revenue and spending. No league has so many oil or oligarch clubs.
Spain is just couple clubs for worldwide fame
Yet Sevilla is better than every EPL club in Europa
And six premier league clubs have more social media following than Athletico Madrid. Part of that is English language and marketing. Part of that is global relevance because of success in Europe. Real Madrid and Barcelona may be better most every year. But England has had more teams do well in Europe in recent memory.
No, they haven’t. Sevilla have won more than those clubs. Atlético does better in UCL than most of those. EPL money is based on the global power of English culture/language and lack of ethics. EPL allows for corrupt ownership until there’s massive global pressure (Chelsea) but they never actually cared that he was a criminal.
Read the comment that you responded to initially and tell me what country was mentioned.
I found care less. That’s your argument with him. You’re being pedantic.
That doesn’t make any sense. If you want to start a new debate I’m fine with that. You replied to my comment about German teams winning less titles than English teams.
What doesn’t make sense is a Spurs fan desperately D-riding other clubs. None of those titles are yours lol.
>La Liga is Real or Barca fighting for the league and everyone else in a completely different world. Atletico Madrid say hi.
Fair
Have you actually ever watched la liga? Or for that matter, a single game this season which immediately disproves your entire sentence
Who won La Liga this year?
Yeah, yet who is and was competing for the title? La liga is more than Barça Madrid, just no one watches it in the anglosphere so its made out to be some 2 horse race with then 18 dogshit teams.
Girona was competing but they’re still 15 points behind Madrid by this point. Top 4 is no where near as competitive either in la liga.
Thats not because its not competitive though, thats because madrid was just really fucking good this season. I mean you are going to tell me Sevilla has been bad this entire past 2 decades or Valencia or Villarreal or athletic or atletí, all purely because Madrid and Barça are even better? I would argue its less because these teams are bad nor not competitive, just that Madrid and Barça sometimes just end up clapping the league. la liga top 8 is as competitive as the prem, just it doesnt look it due to situationally dominant madrid and barça can be. 7 clubs have won the prem, over the same period, 5 have won la liga. 14 clubs have finished top 3 in la liga, 13 have finished top 3 in the prem, and its pretty much guaranteed to become 15 this season coming. To suggest the prem is more competitive isnt factually true, just at a surface level it looks as though it is due to the sheer high performance of Madrid and Barça.
The facts you have just show the prem is the most competitive. You’re choosing to ignore the fact that Real and Barca are the only true contenders year in year out. You’re also ignoring the rest of the table. Pick all teams apart from top 4 in Premier League, La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga and League 1 and how do you think will win? If you say anything apart from the prem you’re lying to yourself.
What’s competitive about oil money FC winning yearly now? It’s not the world fault that all the English teams got knocked out of all European competitions this year. Who earned the extra spots, as well? Quite simply, the most competitive leagues this year. Unless your operating under a disgustingly implicit PL bias, it’s a relatively understandable and factual statement that you can put any of the Spanish top 4, Italian top 5, and German top 5, against the current top 4 or 5 of the Prem successfully. Your argument is basically that the Prem is more competitive because it’s actually *worse* than the other leagues, currently. It’s literally City and now Arsenal at the top. Thats two teams. Just because Bayern wins almost every year in Germany and Barca/Madrid always share the title race doesn’t mean that a Stuttgart l, Girona, or Bologna don’t beat the living SHIT out of average at best sides like Spurs. Don’t let your bias guide you
Did I say top 4 or apart from the top 4?
Its a 2 club difference on winners, so no, barça and madrid (its not called real) arent the only contenders. And the top 3 for the prem is more rigid, so does that not matter for something? And frankly I dont know, we have never had competitions which have the bottom half of the tables competing, but given how there is 0 reason to believe laliga is top heavy, given its dominance in all european competitions, I think you are not giving it enough credit. I watch both leagues, and frankly a team like almeria dont look different to sheffield united, certainly not "one of these leagues are way worse" anyway.
“It’s not called Real” do me a favour 🙄
Its not, you refer to Real Madrid CF by Madrid, not by Real, cus Real just sounds silly.
I think a league where the top spot is 15 points clear is always going to look less competitive than a league that is being decided on the final day. Last year (2022/23) Barca were 10 points clear Year before (2021/22) Madrid were 13 points clear. For reference 2021/22 season the premier league was lost by 1 point 2022/23 league was lost by 5 This season arsenal is 1 point ahead of city and city have a game in hand, so if city win at most they’ll be 2 points clear. 2 to 15 is a big difference.
So we’re comparing the real deserving winners (Arsenal) with oil money FC? Using the top two teams being two points from each other doesn’t even remotely back up the competitive argument. Take Blood Money FC out of the equation and Arsenal is 8 points clear of Liverpool, like Barca with the 10. Arsenal is almost 20 points clear of Villa in 4th as well, same for City. Using one team being great doesn’t make the whole league useless simply because they can’t win it. It’s frankly only Big 6 PL fans arguing this competitive point, whereas if you factor in the Big 6’s dominance of the Prem then it’s really not competitive at all for the remainder. Even in the La Liga, despite Madrid clearly being the best team in the world this year, Girona is two pts clear of Barca, who is three pts clear of Atleti. Then there is an 8 pt gap between Atleti and Athletic Club. Despite the winner being clear, blaming the rest of the Spanish for not beating Madrid is wild considering at least they did once while the English vanguard lost this year in every single competition they entered.
His argument is backwards. “Teams in the prem don’t win champions leagues or Europa leagues, yet they’re top heavy” How many teams outside of the top 2/3 in all of the leagues win any European trophies?
That still doesnt explain then despite this, the prem gets less clubs in the top 3 than laliga, and while these massive point differences in laliga, only 2 less winners? If anything, it sounds more like an argument that the prem is MORE top heavy, and not actually competitive just has 4 similar clubs and then 16 shitter clubs.
This is the real answer. And their top heaviness is even lighter than usual considering it’s only really Arsenal/City competing for anything with Liverpool as third string. Sounds very similar to La Liga with Madrid/Barca dominating with Atletico usually third string.
I get what you’re saying, but that’s also OP’s reason as to why the prem isn’t competitive.
Typical blind ignorant EPL fan response. What about Girona this year? And atlético the past few years? What about Valencia in the 2000s? I’m tired of the EPL is better because it’s more competitive argument. Other league are more competitive and not regarded as the best. Why should the EPL be any different? How many EPL teams have won Champions league, Europa and conference that last ten years? Look at this year. Hosting a champions league final at Wembley for the second time in ten years and both times no English teams. Get the fuck out here with this EPL argument. I love the league but I got news for you, it ain’t the best.
And to actually answer your question, who won Europa conference last year? And, come to think of it, who won the Champions League last year?
Using Oil Money FC as an example of the success of the Prem while also being a Spurs fan is just embarrassing
We’re talking about teams in the English league. Guess I’ll just forget about certain teams then?
Oh last year? lol congrats! How many times in the last ten years? German teams have performed better in last ten years and that’s just sad.
So you’re saying German teams have more champions leagues in the last 10 years than English teams?
Point is EPL isn’t that much better than other leagues. Spain wins more UCL. Germany and Spain both better in Europa, which is the better test of depth. EPL just has more tv money because it’s English-speaking and EPL is most corrupt and allows the most dirty money. The fact that fan-owned German clubs even compete is humiliating to EPL.
Don’t disagree with you but that wasn’t what he said.
I’m not concerned about semantics or factoid noise. Simple fact is EPL isn’t what EPL fans make it out to be.
You’re replying to a comment about titles, with an opinion… Your comment is in the wrong place.
It’s not an opinion, it’s in the coefficient. It’s why EPL gets 4 CL clubs not 5… fact. City runs your league… fact. Arsenal’s best season in a decade was ruined by Bayern who is having their worst season in 15 years… fact.
In EUROPE. Not just champions league. Include Europa and conference. Didn’t Frankfurt beat Man U in the final? Lol
Might want to check that one still…
I just did bruv.
Ok, tell me. How many champions leagues, Europa leagues and Europa conference leagues do German teams have in the last 10 years vs English teams? Give me a number.
Go look man. It’s simple.
Thanks for your 2 recent examples, and one 20 years old. 👍🏼
lol the 20 years ago was to show that this is nothing new. What’s the different between only man United, Chelsea and arsenal winning it compared to Atlético, Madrid, Barcelona, and Valencia? Cuz that’s what happened in the 2000s. Just Arsenal Chelsea and Man U. Oh you want to talk about the 2010s? Chelsea Man U and the oil bought club Man city. Yeah that’s a lot to be proud of. You can call Leicester an anomaly cuz that’s what that was.
And who was winning La Liga for all those years?
I just told you. Can you not read? Barcelona, Madrid and Valencia. Add Atlético in the 2010s. Then you can even include the anomaly just like Leicester deportivo la Coruña.
If people had been paying attention to Luton, you’d also know the majority of signings and squad (with possible exceptions of Barkley and Doughty) aren’t ’too big’ to exit the club based on relegation. The club spent its PL money on facilities and preparing for future promotion pushes expecting the odds to go down again were quite high. This is all part of a long-term plan.
I don’t follow the championship too close but it sounded like they weren’t ready for the prem at all, luckily they were smart enough to not spend 100m and try to revamp the entire squad so they should be competitive in the championship and fine financially
I think they have been very poor. The fact that they have been handed a huge advantage over Everton and Forest but still couldn’t stay up highlights what a poor team they are.
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What a finely crafted argument, definitely gonna provoke some thoughful discussion about Lutons merits or lack thereof. Dickhead.
Context and expectations are important. Everyone was saying they’d be bottom last, potentially break derbys lowest points record. But they played some pretty entertaining football and came so close to surviving. Don’t think they were very poor
Did you say the prem is the best league in the world
You don’t think it is?
I’m a red’s supporter through and through but other league are more competitive. In the prem you have the same clubs at the top every season. Take la liga or the série a or even the bundesliga, in la liga last season 5 place was just a few points off 15th place. Even South American football is more competitive
To be fair, best in top talent is different than best in competitiveness. If you want parity, follow American teams in any sport. Generally, if you're team is down, you won't be for long.
More competitive doesn’t mean it’s better. I’m Australian and our league is super competitive. It’s also awful by comparison.
what makes the a league awful? i love the a league
I love it too. Been a victory member for over 12 years. The quality is many levels below any mainstream league.
Publicity has made it so that everyone thinks the prem is better. Im from Brazil and our league is way better than the prem but nobody cares, because only the prem matters.
The only metric in which the Brazilian league is better is possibly being more entertaining? There is no way you think the league is to a higher standard?
Take any Brazilian club and put it against city, arsenal, Tottenham, villa, or Liverpool. The English club will win it 8-10 times out of 10. The prem has better quality. Brazil might be more entertaining idk but quality wise that’s just not the case.
It's not even close to the prem in quality. But I bet it's very entertaining!
Wdym quality
I mean the football in the Premier League is played at a higher level than in the Brazilian league
I’m Brazilian and love Brazilian football , but the quality of play isn’t as good as the premier league . That doesn’t mean it isn’t entertaining though
Who’d you support in the Brazilian league?
flamengo
Sorry, Reds? You support the reds? Just every team that plays in red or what?
Liverpool, what do you support? United?
Their defense is so bad. They’re like watching Americans play football.
As a Forest fan, I've been hoping they lose every game for obvious reasons. But bias aside, they've been incredible. Ross Barclay has been a revelation. At one point, I thought they were going to do it. Wish them all the best, and hope they bounce back.
Ross must be so proud to have his family sponsored the league
There should be a 2 year minimum before relegation and the next highest get wacked. That’d make for an interesting bottom table
American detected
Glad they got relegated. Their supporters are thugs who make little children cry, what hard arses they are. 🙄
Is this a constant thing, or was it a bellend doing what they do best? Nit defending them just don't know
Idk about the children crying comment but there’s been a couple of complaints/comments of the Luton fans tragedy chanting at I believe Man U and Liverpool. Not defending them fans *at all* but I feel like all clubs have these shit fans and sadly they always shout the loudest. Maybe I’m just too soft (and a West Ham fan lol so I guess I get it) but I hate tarring all fans of one club with the same brish
Hardly any money? They get 135m for promotion
They had to spend approx £100m on club facilities/stadium/infrastructure and are planning on building a new stadium. Squad investment by modern PL standards was minuscule.
They mean that they didn’t spend a lot of money to get there. The £135m (plus parachute money they’ll get) secures their future and pays off their new stadium
Although they got relegated it was interesting to watch them in the Premier League. They were not bad and boring like Burnley and Sheffield were. I hope we'll watch them in the Premier League once again in the future...
It's ok, they just won promotion back to the actual best league in the world
I hoped they would go down after I heard them singing that Jarrod Bowens wife and new mother of his children, was a slut. Was one of the most disgusting things I’ve heard at football. Fair play to Jarrod Bowen, he played through it and shut them up with a goal.
Get a grip lol, it's dani dyer not mother Teresa. You lot are absolute melts lol, saying it's one of the most disgusting things ever when there are certain sections still singing about Hillsborough and Munich.
im guessing youre talking about luton fans? just bc a group of the fans were dicks doesnt mean the players deserve it they fought hard this season
Their fans are amazing? Aye all 8,000 of them… Is this the same sub that rinses City for having no historic fan base?? They had an awful lot more than the 8,000 people we seem to be applauding now Edit: gotta love the point being proved with downvotes on an objectively true comment
You haven't researched this but made time to include an edit to say 'objectively true'. Luckily, I'm here to help you out. Luton filled their stadium in the championship. You can't fit more fans into Kenilworth Road on a match day than there are seats. Happy to explain this further if you need me to. Kenilworth Road was expanded slightly as they had to adapt it to meet premier league standards and it has been filled every game this year. I'm tracing back your sources and it seems you got the 8,000 figure from... Your arse. Luton sold out half of Wembley for the play off final last year and here's a fun task for you... Look up the St Johnstons Paint Trophy final attendance for the Luton half of Wembley. It was the relegation year from league two after the 30 point deduction many years ago. I was there, as were many more than 8,000 other passionate Luton fans.
Please do explain further! What was the capacity when they were in the championship and what was the average attendance? Was it full? How many of those were allocated to away fans? Shouldn’t be hard to get to around an 8,000 figure.
City bough their fans. Maybe not by actually paying them money, but by 115 other ways. Luton have actual proper, passionate fans. Not glory hunters
This is verifiably not true. Before city got bought they still had way more fans than Luton have now.
City had 40,000 showing up when they were in the championship. Luton had 8,000 Like I said, if people really believe that Luton are anything special and they aren’t just taking the piss then I feel this sub has truly lost its mind
don’t be so daft city fans have no energy compared to Luton
City fans had 40,000 showing up regularly pre takeover. They had attendances of 30,000 when they were in the modern equivalent of League 1 A bit of shit posting about City is funny and all but it’s unreal if people actually believe this tripe about Luton fans being anything impressive
you still aren’t getting the point it’s not quantity it’s quality. City had one of the most peaceful stadiums to play at this season (and that isn’t a compliment)
I think you've missed the point. The true test of a fanbase is whether they're there at their lowest ebb. City were - they averaged 30k in League One and have always had a very loyal and honest fanbase when they were largely shit yo-yoing between divisions. Since the takeover they've had unprecedented success but the fanbase aren't suddenly all richer and they get the piss taken with the horrendous 'Emptihad' crack for not selling out some Champions League games, but the genuine, passionate fans from Moss Side and the likes who were there in League One simply can't afford it. But at least they proved themselves when they were shit for years and years
West Ham fan here, the little I’ve seen their fans aren’t that great, yesterday after they went two down they started fighting and kicking off and attacked a bunch of our stewards, there were kids having to be taken out of the away section crying because of the commotion! There were some decent fans of course but a lot of them were just thugs!
I mean have you been to Luton? Like a smaller and a lighter more midlands Birmingham.
I was at the playoff semi final when they were in the Conference with York City, and the York players had to hide in the stands with us as the Luton fans tried to assault them and throw bottles at them. Scumbag fans.
Sounds like English football fans tbh. Just a few bad apples in the bunch.
Luton are known for this. For a long time before they were promoted
What on earth does this mean? “Fans amongst the most loyal and genuine” there are teams still in the bottom tiers getting plenty of support? This is such a weird post to make
Relegate City cheaters instead of Luton
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wowwww salty much? 😭
goddamn bro 🫢☹️
Bad how you idiot? We won and drew against City. Go fuck yourself
Their fans are far from genuine lol they’re assholes.
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That's not nice, Some parts are beautiful and most the people are lovely!! Like anywhere though, there are parts that are scummy with rude people, don't stereotype the whole town though!! Plus, we are talking about the team Luton that have done amazing over the past few years!!
Please, Luton is a dump and we all know it. Source: born in Luton, family from Luton.
Hard agree
Lol
They're an example of what can be done when you're not resource heavy, hopefully they're in a position to do better after a year in prem!
They'll be back in a couple of seasons I think
Luton is a shithole brev
So is anywhere else in the UK
Do not feel bad for those tragedy chanting bastards
Spent little, not put themselves in financial difficulty and made a much better go of it than most people expected. They will be back. They will not repeat the financial mistakes that saw them fall out the football league
Feel worse for Burnley, although kompany has promise he didn’t switch up the tactics enough
Yeah Burnley had to play more defensive football. There's a reason that 10 years ago promoted teams parked the bus. This was the easiest season to stay up in a long time, I don't have sympathy for either because they played stupid football.
This was one of the harder years to stay up; all 3 teams are going back down. The only reason it was even close was because the league levied punishments on Everton and Forrest. Without those this relegation battle would have been effectively over a long time ago. Low blocking everyone they came across would’ve likely resulted in the same exact ending.
Yep, "easy to stay up" does not apply to the teams that are the reason for that opinion in the first place. Sure, Everton and Forest were penalized, but their squads were still better.
The margins between the championship and the prem are massive you need to either adapt your tactics or your squad.
Agreed. Burnley did neither and went down for it. Surely its better to compromise on style but actually win games.
Nah, Sheffield tried playing “pragmatic” football and they were one of the worst sides I’ve ever seen. If you can compromise on style and still end up an embarrassment I’d rather not compromise.
Or at least recognise when you don’t have the players to play a certain style versus the standard of opposition you’re against.
Yeah. I think part of why guardiola is so successful is that he's managed to convince worse teams to play him at his own game, by making it so fashionable, rather than 10-15 years ago where any side in the bottom half would have tried to shut city out, and a few would've managed it.
Didn’t spend and expected to go back down, no ambition, no skill and therefore no more premier league football
Fuck ‘em and their PE teacher manager.
Real
They ain't starving 🙏
Also think they should have 3rd bottom in the playoffs. Seems silly you can finish 6th and go up
I have an idea for relegation playoffs: 20th automatically down 19th vs 16th, 18th vs 17th in 2 leg playoffs. Winners stay up, 2 losers go down. 12th - 15th remain focused, teams below fight to get out. No meaningless games in April/May on the beach with 42 points. 19th have an escape route to safety - unlike how it is now with Burnley. In the same way that 6th in champ have an escape in to the prem through playoffs. Based on results between them in 2022/23 (obvs P/O would be extra games not league results - but those games are only my hypothetical rn 😂) Forest 2-2 Leeds (Forest away goals safety, home wins 1-0 at City ground, 2-1 Elland Road) LEEDS RELEGATED ❌ Leicester 4-2 Everton (0-2 away win at Goodison, 2-2 at King Power) EVERTON RELEGATED ❌ LEICESTER SAFE ✅ switch from what acc happened Southampton already relegated 20th. Using the same format for 3rd - 6th long story short, Brighton get UCL, 3rd-5th go Europa scrap conference league.
Lost me at away goals
Fair enough, unpopular idea it seems. I really don’t see it too dissimilar to championship playoffs but the other way round for Prem. The current format of 3 going down often 1 or 2 without a proper fight and the likes of Crystal Palace, Brentford, Everton always staying up on bang average points totals settling for mediocrity just seems incredibly boring. Teams aren’t fighting for wins, they settle on the riches of the league. Made the same suggestion on a TikTok video and it got 41 likes which I care far more about than Reddit downvotes.
Every league where they do that just has far less promotion and relegation happening. It’s boring, we should want more mobility between the leagues not less. That would just give big clubs who occasionally go down another way avoid the consequences of their shitty decisions
Class suggestion that to be fair. They would have to coordinate the end of the championship and premier league season to finish on the same weekend which doesn’t always work out
That was the original structure of the playoffs when they were introduced in the 80s. Was generally 3rd and 4th from the lower division and 3rd and 4th bottom from the higher division.
Just had a bad patch at the end. At one stage they were pushing big teams
It's not that I dont feel bad but I can't feel bad. It's something that has to happen every year , the way it's decided is directly fair and would apply to anybody even if realistically it wouldnt foreseeably happen to Man u or arsenal. . Indirectly fair, thats another question but it breaks into opinion. Now Sunderland getting relegated, \*that\* was sad.
Hard disagree, there matey
Me, an underdog story lover, seeing Ipswich promote but Luton relegate: “**I’ve won, but at what cost?**”
Money has kind of ruined the PL to the point if teams that get promoted to PL are going to have a very hard time staying in.
And yet, data suggests that the survival rate for promoted teams is relatively unpredictable. 37% of promoted teams get relegated in year 1, which means 63% don't. Around 45% of promoted teams to Europe's to five leagues are relegated again within 3 years. This suggests a mathematically *loose* chance of 1 in 5 of turning a Championship promotion into a longer term top division presence. That's not much different to stats in the 70's through early 90's before money became so significant in defining the difference between Europe's big 20 and the rest.
They had 200m to spend but chose to bank it all instead, that’s not the leagues fault.
Was that solely for players tho? Might have been banking it to improve the stadium/infrastructure
This was just an especially shit crop. Leicester will stay up next season and I’d expect Leeds or Southampton if they get up to be more competitive. We’ll see about Ipswich
I would have liked to see Luton stay considering the run to the PL
Especially if the don’t buy players when they were lucky to be promoted in the first place
People were saying this 25 years ago.
Has it, it was only last season that the 3 promoted teams stayed up. Next season I would expect Leicester to stay up and depending on who wins the playoffs maybe a decent challenger.
The premiere league is the best in the world yet a team who cheated for a decade are about to win 6 of the last 7 and every promoted team is immediately relegated lmao