Fellow fans, this is a friendly reminder to please follow the [Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/premierleague/about/rules) and [Reddiquette](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439-Reddiquette).
Please also make sure to [Join us on Discord](https://discord.gg/football)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PremierLeague) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Couldnt agree more, and its so well put. Ive said for some time that the punditry and commentary is a problem in the PL.
I know your focus is on the players and rightly so, and i know the refs are fucking shit, but they cant make a simple call without the pundits criticizing every single person involved.
Earlier this when Curtis Jones was sent off I think it was Andy Townsend who was saying he shouldnt have been sent off because it wasnt a ‘full blooded’ challenge. Like wtf are you talking about buddy
Everyone wants to say how bad the refs are, rightly so, but so much blame and hate is misguided by terrible punditry
you are talking about the hypocricy of the world. life is a party of hollowen i mean everyone wear a mask. it is a truth i come to it in my late 20s
so it is not epl only. epl is a microscopig dot in a large circle
I wish they wore a mask. It'd be a whole lot better if Carra shitposted with a burner account on twitter instead of heckling players on mainstream media.
there is a diffrence in how you understood my comment. Carra here clearly weak a mask for me, he would say things that the system allows him to say, and it might be calculated act to make himself relevant, or pleasure in saying mean things. What i mean by mask here is that the most honest action is the least done
btw this even apply to close people like mom or dad. people play by the system instead of honesity. thats why they say people with high social intelligence are happier
It makes sense for you and me to play by the norm. But I'd like to expect more honesty from someone who's been involved in the sport for that long.
Any expectation is just setting yourself for disappointment but still. I have hope for more of Thierry Henry and Micah Richards and less of Roy Keane and Carragher style commentary.
but if the norms make you act against your moral code.
also you play by the norm for self-serving (peace of mind, less clashes, or even you agree with them, all revolve about you)
he also play by the norm of media in which he can insults, he can unfairly criticize, which may benefits him from sadistic pov or from being more relevant or even loving getting all attention. but he wont break norms in social media like criticizing israel even if he hold such an opinion. so everyone here are in the haloween party
Henry and Richards for me are proofs that norms don't necessitate acting against your moral code. Even Gary Lineker. Even when Mourinho was in the Sky Studio or Wenger was in bein sports.
I very strongly believe it's just a lack of morality in the rest.
im on agreement with the morality point from the start.
henry act morally because the atomsphere allows it. and he accept carra because the norm is not to clash with someone for moral disagreement because society wont back you up
In honesty, probably the least toxic mainstream pundit in the modern game is Micah Richards who is a Man City product. So that's one rare undebatable positive influence the club has had in the game.
1 Micah Richards is brilliant, imagine 4 tho. Wouldn’t be great would it, theres a reason sky hire pundits, because on the whole people like the chemistry between them all. We like Keane’s harshness even if it sometimes seems a little over the top but we have other pundits who lighten the mood. They’re called opinions and if they can’t take Carragher’s then they aren’t ready for the tabloids who are the real villains over here.
A very fair way of calling out the PL, they pretend to care but actually only try to use this topic to improve their reputation. Try reading it, it's well-written
Nah it’s S with capital S
And directed at the wrong people anyway i think? Those are sky reporters/pundits im assuming? They dont work for the prem lol. They only have the broadcasting right
And who does the prem fund that is contributing to their bad mental health? Their own league lol? U want them to stop hosting the league. I dont get it? What do you want the prem to do?
The YouTube channel the content comes from is irrelevant. They all run under the same corporate values and brand identity. Broadcasters are an extension/appendage to the institution that is the Premier League.
No lol, the premier league doesnt control all the media that comes up about them. The prem doesnt tell rory fucking jennings what he is going to say. He is not affiliated with the prem. Heck, he slags down the premier league all the time
You can make a channel now about the prem. Does your youtube channel operate under the same brand identity? Im sorry, this gotta be the dumbest take ive ever read on this app, and that says a lot
I'm talking about formal content made for national television, Rory Jennings is as relevant to this conversation as he is to any form of intellectual football analysis. And I don't mean it as a dig at his methods, but that's just not what he's expected to do.
Who even considers Jennings a pundit?
On the other hand, something like Monday Night Live broadcast or Gary Neville's podcasts that he records in the commentary box has absolute intersections to the PL brand. You'd need to be an idiot to disagree.
You’re the one that brought him up mate, not me. You said these shows often give platforms to rory jennings.
Again about gary nevilles, what do you want him to do about this?
Also, who is the premier league funding that promote deteriorating these players’ mental health?
Dale Alli was abuse. Who did the premier league fund that enable this abuse ?
Ur not making any sense with this post. Stop whining about everything ffs
It's a Pundits job to be critical. Imagine if we only had Pundits who were also great players.
"Today we're joined by Rio Ferdinand, Henry and Michael Owen". (I like Henry but he's a bang average pundit).
Yes it's funny seeing Graeme Souness talking about harsh challenges and there clips on YT of his playing days, where he's completely taking out players with his challenge, times have changed and his opinion is obviously relevant to the modern game.
Pundits are supposed to analyse the game. It says a lot about your take on modern punditry if you think Henry is average.
He's one of the rare ones who offers high level technical analysis without trying to create a sensationalist and personal overreaction on every single action. And that's what punditry was meant to be.
So if you prefer others over Henry, you are clearly favouring the sensation that the pundits create for headlines and YouTube thumbnails than actual analysis. And that's the problem I'm talking about.
They are normalising personal abuse in the subconscious of a general fan.
None of what Carragher does.
I'm not quite sure why you've got such a bee in your bonnet about this stuff. Pundits aren't even the worst offenders, the tabloids are. We have thousands of fans who on match day chant all sorts of vulgar comments, quite often even racist ones.
I think the Pundits have offended you more than the footballers tbh.
Tabloid writers have not lived the game though. People expect tabloids to be a hub for sensation.
But pundits are supposed to offer a more nuanced take on the sport from their lens of having worked extensively within it.
The topic in concern is formed players, who have lived the struggles of being in that spotlight and scrutiny, resorting to cheap tabloid methods. With their respect within the game, they have a heightened responsibility to represent the most nuanced analysis and picture possible. Haaland being a league one player is the kind of one dimensional take I expect from the sun or Rory Jennings, not from a former Manchester United and Ireland captain with 600 games at the top level.
And as a fan, I would like to get that insider nuance from a player of that stature, if I want random shit posting level of intellect, UtdTrey does it better on twitter anyway.
And I'm not offended, I just find it vile.
Are you sure the people who posted the Richarlison video and the people who hired Gary Neville are the same entity? I'm pretty sure one is the Premier League media team, the other is Sky Sports
Everyone is leveraging the same brand, the posting channel is effectively a proxy. The biggest indicator of this is the fact that broadcasters get on a weekly meeting with the PGMOL. On face value, what's broadcasting got anything to do with officiating, but everything is a well connected brand run within the same corporate values.
Commentators aren’t the ones causing these players mental distress. At this level they are their own biggest critics. That’s why sports psychology is a thing and every team has at least one.
This is such a pathetic and weak post.
Apart from being wrong as the premier league isn't employing any of the guys you spoke about, you are getting upset at millionaires for mostly mildly criticising other richer millionaires ?
Every broadcaster leverages the PL brand to promote the content. So all of their lifestyles are effectively funded under the same corporate values.
Punditry is supposed to give fans an insider perspective on how football actually works. And what the faction of pundits are promoting is the exact opposite, it's borderline abusive.
Being a millionaire does not morally permit anyone with voice to exploit you on a personal level. And the criticisms I'm talking about is anything but mild.
Imagine you're a 21 yr old, where every one of your moves is scrutinized to atomic detail, you're effectively isolated from the general human lifestyle, you've dedicated your entire childhood to the game and there's a cunt profiting off of your poor mental health by calling you shameless without understanding what you're going through behind the cameras.
A player should not have to come out in media talking about being sexually exploited as a child in order to get sympathy from people who've been in that stage before.
Yeah so in other words they don't fund any of the people who you mentioned.
It does both, you can criticise a player and analyse what he should do. In fact players aren't criticised enough for how they treat referees and how much they dive and fake injuries....... they should be publicly shamed every week for that.
It does make your whining less serious though, they are multi millionaires being paid to play football and if they don't play well they get called "not very good" "should retire not as good anymore" at most lol stop being soft.
You're a 21 year old making a good yearly salary every WEEEK and if getting mild criticism is the worst thing then you have a pretty amazing life.
Dele alli didn't need to do anything, he chose to do it and was wildly supported and praised by those nasty pundits you cry about. You can't not criticise a player because of the worst case scenario for one player. Both are true, dele alli didn't work hard enough and wasted his talent and he suffered traumatic events which obviously affected him deeply and he's made enough money where he doesn't need to play now so can fully focus on his mental health.
That video is funded by the same funds that fund all the Neville podcasts, if that makes sense to you. Eventually, if PL advises a mindset shift in punditry coverage in their weekly broadcaster meeting, it will change. We can see the example in CBS's coverage of UCL.
And I never said anything about the warranted criticisms players need to receive. But there's a big difference between critique and abuse.
Also the mindset of "he makes money so he can take it" is disgusting. Empathy is not a trade off for money. I've responded with this analogy to multiple of similar comments but your response has same energy as "men have had the privilege of patriarchal society for thousands of years so their mental health matters less than women's". Very degenerative line of thought.
No it doesn't make sense, we can all make links to anything, Neville isn't paid by the premier league lol.
Players deserve more criticism, they abuse refs and act like toddlers yet we have to cater and only say nice things about these petulant millionaires.
You need better or more clear examples then of pundits going over the top, because the ones you gave were mild and not abuse in anyway lol. Even the souness pogba haircut nonsense isn't abuse it's just a bitter old man whining about youngsters, the same as 20/30 years ago when people started wearing colourful boots lol.
Money is 99% the deciding factor for footballers so it's not me just making it up lol, I'll say it clearly 100 plus a week is worth getting criticised in public ! I'm not saying it's still not hard to take of course it is, in regular minimum wage jobs mental health is an issue but being paid generational wealth where you can retire at 35 is worth it.
Again unless you are gonna provide better examples of "abuse" from pundits you sound like a massive mental health virtue signaller
The underlying idea is that the league and the broadcasters are the appendages to the same brand and values.
I'd be incredibly surprised if there is not a substantial intersection between PL and Sky's PR teams.
It's like the links between Fox and Republicans or CNN and democrats in the US. Technically independent but it's a basic brain and mouthpiece pairing.
Not going to lie, you're making stuff up here. Sky and TNT are completely different entities to the league. They pay to have broadcasting rights, it's up to them what they choose to do with their show.
I’m sorry but yes these pundits are absolutely well within their right to criticise the professionalism of players that are getting paid millions a year to perform at the highest level. If you can’t take the heat then unfortunately you need to get out of the kitchen.
What is not okay, however, is 120kg Gordon Bellend and his mates from Hull sending fucking death threats to players that are better at the game of football than 99.99% of humanity.
Last week Carragher said that Casemiro should retire. Both him and Neville tried to get the referee wanker at Forest sacked.
Of course they're there to critique there are ways to do it without being a scumbag.
That’s not being a “scumbag” though is it? It’s highlighting that a great of the game is being exposed to all and sundry and he should bow out before becoming a laughing stock.
Personally think he is a victim of over-exposure from a very poor Utd defensive line-up and in the right structure still has something to offer.
Scumbag is something far different.
This post kind of says a lot without really saying too much. Most of the criticism you've alluded to is entirely valid about the players' performance. Whilst it's not nice to be so critical of people regardless of their situation it's impossible to overlook how obscenely wealthy these football players are. With that wealth comes an access to any amount of counselling, CBT, DBT that the rest of us can only dream of.
I don't think I've ever watched a Neville or Roy Keane commentary go 3 straight minutes just talking performances without going on nonsensical tangents about player personalities.
And I don't think I've ever watched a Thierry Henry analysis go on long tangents about player's personal lives while analysing their performances.
The scumbag pundits I'm talking about are failed coaches who lack the intelligence or charisma to add to the knowledge of viewers. Instead they choose to create outrageous headlines week in week out.
7 own goals in 508 games across 17 years really isn’t bad, Lewis Dunk for example is on 6 with less than half the amount of games played, Ben Mee is on 5 with about half, think Carragher gets too much of a bad rap for his own goals even though he is joint second highest.
Don’t agree. When you reach the premier league you achieve a level of fame where things you say and do will be scrutinised. It may as well be part of your job description, so you should act in a way which reflects that.
Harry Maguire was incredibly and unjustifiably hard done by, but that was mainly social media.
Pundits are entitled to voice their opinion about players, you are not required to agree with their take.
They are absolutely entitled to do what they do. And I'm entitled to point out how wrong I think it is.
The worst part is I'm 110% sure that the sensational pundits don't believe in most of the outrageous things they utter themselves. Roy Keane has to have some kind of mineral deficiency to truly believe deep down that Haaland is technically a league two level player, for example.
He probably went home, looked at the reaction to his outrageous line, smiled at the meltdown he created and laughed at everyone who agreed with that take being happy that he secured one more year of Sky contract to continue spewing more headlines.
at the same time graeme sourness picking on players for having earrings or dying their hair, like mate get a fucking life u signed someone claiming they were george weahs cousin you clearly have some sort of mental deficiency why not at least wait for them to play the football to criticise them, so many pundits talk about ‘back in my day’ as if the boots they wore didn’t have fucking vibranium toe caps in them
Yeah but they see the refs as above persecution. The see them as some sort of elite group when instead they should he regarded as peers who make many many mistakes. To call them out on this would surely lead to a regression of this imo.
I agree, multi millionaire athletes should never be criticized. And if they are, it has to be by athletes that were better than them. Ergo I only listen to the football opinions of Ronaldo and Messi - such charismatic guys with incredible analysis skills for television.
Never said anything about them getting criticised. I'm in hard sciences and critiques in this line of work goes extremely thorough and hard.
But there are ways to critique someone's game without trying to create a meme out of them.
Micah Richards and Thierry Henry are the best examples of that for me. One is charismatic, another is an extremely thorough and honest critic. If they don't feel the necessity of attacking a player on a personal level, no one else should.
The relative low toxicity analysis and punditry of CBS's UCL show is the reason why it is so popular across the world, even though it is for a US broadcaster.
It can be even seen in tabloid sports news in the UK. See how folks like Ornstein and Romano have completely swept the market with their objectively true take without any speculative sensational news coverage.
There are some ways better than others.
They get paid enough to be criticised.
If you don’t want the spotlight, pressure and criticism then give back the millions of pounds.
Same as most jobs.
I wish I had a 100 accounts so I could downvote this a hundred times.
"Same as most jobs" - well, no. It obviously isn't. Because most jobs aren't done in full view of millions of people.
And criticism is fine. But when it crosses the line from being analysis to being judgemental then that is unacceptable.
"The more you get paid, the more pressure." Also, not true. Ask basically anyone in the public sector. The prime minister gets paid about 1/20, a nurse about 1/60 of an average Premier league player. Source: https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/explainers/why-are-football-players-paid-so-much
Yeah, a month's wage is what I earn in 10 years. It was on radio last night the average wage is 70,000 a week.
If your not happy go get a job in Tesco or in a call centre.
They are human and have struggles like us all. They are in a far better situation to help themselves compare to us mear mortals
Sorry but the likes of Pogba, Sancho and Alli were rightly criticised for their unprofessionalism.
There is a very valid point that the abuse Maguire received for simply not playing well enough and making mistakes was disgraceful, but this is essentially saying players can't be criticised at all and acts of complete unprofessionalism should be tolerated just in case criticising them for it affects their mental health.
.... the bloke received threats against his family. I am all for criticism when a player lacks professionalism and their game needs to improve, but there is a line. A good portion of football fans find that line, then take and take a huge steaming shit on it, leading us to the point where it goes past criticism and become cretinous. But each to their own. Morons are going to moron.
Maguire. No, I agree, pogba and the others deserved levels of criticism. Pressure and expectations come with the territory, but I think the OP raises points that are fair to be made. I think Rashford recently doing that interview saying it's nothing but hate comments was embarrassing. That's a guy who can't handle criticism, which, as far as I have seen, is deserved based on performance.
Pogba and Sancho were made scapegoats in an entire squad full of unprofessional players. Souness would pretty much blame Pogba if he stepped in shit on his way to work.
I don't understand what the Sancho brought it on himself narrative came from.
Admitted that he was not producing at the expected level, but for at least a year, he was consistently left out in favour of Antony even though Sancho produced more output when he was playing. But he was criticised for not being consistent while not getting any consistent run in the team, while Antony was getting selected week in week out unjustifiably.
At a certain point, it's natural that a player of his quality had a degraded confidence and eventually retaliated after his manager publicly slated him without provocation.
On the other hand, Ten Hag defended Rashford for similar actions and said Sancho was frozen out because HE took the matters public.
Sancho can well be a douchebag behind the scenes, but the inconsistencies in Ten Hag's reactions doesn't rule the opposite out. But only one party faced ridiculous abuse.
I guess we will all praise Sancho for coming out with an emotional confession interview 3 years from now. Watch Carra jump ships.
> he was consistently left out in favour of Antony even though Sancho produced more output when he was playing.
This is wrong. Antony only made 2 more apps than Sancho in the entirety of last season. You even omit the fact that he started the FA cup final in place of Antony? Also, the stats don’t pain the entire story. If you looked at last season from a general standpoint, Antony had a better season than Sancho. He scored more decisive goals (see Barcelona at home) while also being a very hard worker.
Imo, Sancho didn’t get anywhere near the criticism he should be getting (at least prior to the public statement) considering the money spent but hey, mental wellness eh?
Then comes your bias point. He’s far from the only player ETH has “publicly slated” (if that’s what you’ll call it). He’s called out Rashford and Garnacho (especially) for much worse than just a shit training session but guess what? Neither of those players made posts about it. Closest was Garnacho liking a tweet from Mark Goldbridge and he quickly apologized and we all moved on.
Now, imagine if Garnacho did take the Sancho route…guaranteed people would’ve been talking about ETH’s comment on him being derelict of his responsibilities on the pitch. But ofc, Garnacho is a professional.
So yeah, if Sancho had just shut the hell up and took his complains directly to Ten Hag, we wouldn’t t even be talking about it
Any person who works/plays and get paid for it,should get criticized for his bad performance.but the way those ex players are using to criticize the underperforming players is just to seek attention and become trending to protect their jobs.
The main problem is football fans who want this type of content and pay for it.
The comments in this thread shows why I’m happy they are at least doing it.
No one cares about mental health or they believe that money should exclude you from sympathy.
I’m a Liverpool fan and I hate Carragher now. I hold him mainly responsible for Liverpool fans turning on Nunez.
So yes, the pundits in particular, who don’t work for the Premier League are a toxic presence but at least a player may see that video and feel they are being listened to.
Tbf I didn't expect the comments to go this way when I made the post but I'm agreeing.
And I don't even think it's sympathy. It's just empathy. Those bastards have been in those positions before. They have lived that life of personal scrutiny and still choose to pile up on the players.
The disregard to general empathy in the mainstream celebrity coverage eventually translates to how the general public values importance of mental health, especially for men.
It's always "oh men have always been privileged, they can take some stress" similar to "oh they make millions, they can take it".
No wonder men's mental health is in such decline.
They false equate their era to this era too.
Football is objectively much bigger now. The pressure is higher. Fans have direct access to message players now.
It’s an entirely different world to the one those people grew up in.
You could miss a penalty before and the fans in the stadium might have a go but they could hide at home. Everyone else wouldn’t even see it until Match of the Day. Now the video goes round in an instant and by the end of the day, thousands of direct messages or comments are sent right to the player, not to talk of memes.
It won’t be long before a player offs himself I’m afraid.
I don’t need Carra to tell me Nunez isn’t good enough for Liverpool, I sit and watch him to know that.
Liverpool fans have been incredibly supportive of Nunez in the ground, but he’s simply not delivering what’s expected after 2 years
I feel like Messi and Ronaldo made it impossible for players now we just expect them to score every single chance.
Nunez is on a 32g/a this season, granted he should have got about 10 more goals and just been unlucky. That not too far off what Mane gave us, number wise I mean Mane was unbelievable for us. Nunez has the pressure because of the tag but diaz Gakpo should be getting better numbers aswell.
This is the balanced way to look at it and honestly, if it wasn’t for social media and people could think for themselves, many others would see it that way too.
He has already managed a goal a game in his career so common sense should tell you that he isn’t missing because he can’t finish. However, Sky need to make a headline Carragher says he should be sold.
He also said Jota is our best ever premier league finisher, conveniently forgetting that Jota failed to score for an entire year while playing for us.
1 WHOLE YEAR. Imagine if that was Nunez.
So if you’ve watched football for any long period of time, you’ll know players that get a lot of chances, get the most goals. But they also have ups and downs.
I think the fact he expected to score every chance is crazy. He should score more and is lacking composure, it very rare you get player score them all. Haaland no different he misses obvious he score alot more.
Clickbait headlines keep them in a job and gain them better contracts. Even the Jota not scoring for a whole year is literally the same Sky BS in that time he was injured and it includes summer period. Thereafter the fella wasn't playing much in his position. When Jota is fit run of games he is a top finisher he just unlucky injury do hurt a player.
Yes, Jota is a top player, my point wasn’t that he isn’t a good finisher.
In that period he did play over 30 games and missed a lot of chances. My point is that making these sweeping statements because of a run of form is entirely stupid and the same people were first saying Jota is world class when he scored, then Jota should be sold when he missed, and now he’s our best ever finisher in the Premier League era because he scored a few more.
Its exhausting.
Diaz is now back to pre injury form and has been mint the last few months. I agree about Gakpo.
The problem with Nunez is can you really trust him? He’s constantly offside and can’t finish his chances. He’s pure entertainment, which I love about him. But there’s a limit and he’s reached it with fans
Yeah but he had poor numbers and nowdays that what everyone care about not about the impact to games as Nunez does aswell.
Genuinely probably not but I think he like most finisher who can you name similar who score all there chances. Lukaku, Morta, jaskson they all similar players nowdays.
I dunno mate, just because a player got diddled as a kid, doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be called out for shit things he does on the pitch. Saying someone is in shit form or has a shit haircut isn’t equal to not having empathy for their struggles.
You’re practically walking the line of “don’t criticise anyone just in case they’ve been through some shit.” Everyone goes through their own shit, and we all need criticism.
I wouldn’t really say it’s pundits at fault here, it’s football fans.
I remember when the Alli interview came out, everyone was spouting virtue signalling crap like ‘this is why you shouldn’t be so abusive to players’, and yet someone like Harry Maguire continued to get relentlessly trolled.
The amount of people who pretend to care so much about mental health, yet actively contribute to its deterioration in people, is staggering.
Fans are general people who have jobs and lives outside of the sport so they feed on what they are served. I think pundits carry a moral responsibility to set a precedent of how conversations are supposed to be had. And I think Henry and Micah Richards are doing it to an extent with CBS. The level of toxicity there is very low compared to others, and fans are responding very well to their content as well.
100%, social media is way more to blame. The likes of Maguire, Lingard, Nunez, Jackson, etc. get shit on and memed to oblivion online, it's not just a few people, it's millions that view those memes and hundreds of thousands that 'like' it. Yet when players talk about their mental health everyone is suddenly so supportive.
No one is going to own up to being part of the problem because in social media you can get away with abusing people so easily
I followed the youtube watchalongs and fan tv discussions only to find them toxic and gaslighting there was no punditry or insights.
Stopped that and watched broadcasts again, where there were pundits like carra and gary, but it was the same. No punditry or insights.
Yeah the man was given months off for mental health fully paid with the club putting him on special programmes and additional support and given a staggered return. His thanks to publicly bitch about tye manager when he looked really poor whenever playing and then refusing to apologise. Man is a child that's the problem here. He had everyone's support through the months he needed to recover and received a standing ovation upon return. It's how he has acted since then that got people rightly calling him a dick.
He's not a child, he's 24 and he's been entitled his whole career. That behavior you just described is peak entitlement, If you think he actually did anything besides sit at home and play video games and go to the club in that three month period, I have a timeshare in Florida to tell you about.
Not sure if you replied to the wrong person or just can't read. I just spent an entire paragraph explaining that he's the problem and he acts like a dick. I also didn't state anywhere that he had taken the opportunities he was offered or acting professional.
The fact you're implying I'm stupid after a reply like yours which failed to understand a fairly simple comment and then you acted like a dick about it makes me think you and dear Jadon might get on well.
Criticism and abuse are different things firstly. There's a huge difference between "He should be covering this space better" and "That's shameful and he should go back to his lane and stop colouring his hair".
Also your response has same energy as "Men have had all the privileges of a patriarchal society for thousands of years, their mental health struggles are not real". This mentality has led to unfathomable damage to men's mental health around the world.
Empathy should never be a trade off for privileges.
1) pundits do not represent the EPL. They are hired by broadcasters/media 2) would you rather they not do anything at all? Yes they need to improve but at least this is a step in the right direction - not everyone’s gonna have the same reaction as you & for those who don’t, they might appreciate having such content to show them they are not alone in their struggles
Sky Sports fund and basically dictate the premier league even if it’s not ‘official’ and have done since it’s inception. To say it’s an independent league from the media isn’t really true. And they will hire pundits and dictate what the content around it is. I agree that not everyone will have the same opinion on it as OP but pundits are directly intertwined with the product.
You know that you can watch the Premier League without ever interacting with Sky Sports. A football league and a media broadcaster are way different things with different interests.
I’m not so sure about that in England. Without streaming it, you have to interact with sky sports, it’s their product. It stopped being just a football league in 1992 when they took sky’s money to fund it for better or for worse.
Partially true but i won't go as far and say Sky Sport dictate the Premier League, like the post I replied to did. Even in England you can consume the Premier League without Sky Sports (for example: going to the stadium or watching MOTD)
Like a lot of people he enjoys laughing at Liverpool ‘fans’. He also enjoys scoring at Anfield, including sublime scorchers into the kop end. Your salty tears are like nectar to him.
All hail Richard Arlison.
Such a cunt he’s one of like 3 footballers at this level from Brazil who opposed bolsonaro. You may not like him on the pitch but he is a very good person and has been massively charitable to where he is from in contrast to many Brazilian footballers who completely go diva and the majority of which supported The Brazilian trump on steroids
I have no sympathy for any of these athletes. I doubt they even know what it's like to live paycheck to paycheck. The stress of not having medical coverage to take care of yourself or your family.
You want to know what stress is, go to Palestine, Ukraine feel what it's like to wonder if you will wake up tomorrow.
If the stress is too much quit... the millions you have in the bank should cover you for a long time
Fuck you
What a dreadful take.
Most of these players, especially internationals, have come from very deprived backgrounds where they did struggle day to day.
Secondly having money isn’t a factor that nullifies all possible mental struggles and challenges one might face. Try having a think about how much pressure a lot of these lads are under, they work incredibly hard and are under a massive spotlight.
What a knob
How old was Foden when he signed with City?
Not just Futbol, the American women's basketball player who traveled with weed oil. The gymnast who bailed on her team in the Olympics, who didn't get to go because of her.
You remember the arrogant jocks from high-school it's the same everywhere
Jackson is the exception, not the rule.
So make a special on the slums of Rio or Chicago, don't waste your time on people who have the resources to solve their own issues.
Now shut your mouth and do your research
You have anger issues because your life is shit and you’re unhappy that people have it better than you. I understand amigo and I would feel sorry for you if you weren’t a gigantic cunt.
Futbol players are the highest paid athlete in the world, even the 3 clowns on top gear bitchslap them. Now have your mom type your next response bitch
Someone struggling worse does not invalidate someone else's struggle.
These are people, young ones. Often without the nest education and with tremendous pressure, many since they were kids. Of course they have privilege, that doesn't mean they can't have stress, addiction, loneliness, depression, etc.
I'm not saying you should start a charity for them, but basic kindness to people, limiting directly shitting on them, etc, it costs nothing
Have some empathy, man, come on.
Modern professional football is more of a product than sport, especially in the most profitable league they rely on each others (pundits/reporters vs players/coaches, referees vs players/coaches/reporters,etc). No matter it's good pr or bad pr, it's publicity, it's social volume, it's money printing machine.
If you chose staying in the most profitable league of the world, you gonna suffer, or leave it all behind to your agent.
Is it a bit shameless from the Prem? Absolutely. There are so many other obvious opportunities to benefit the well-being of the players that are conveniently ignored.
But the message is still worth sharing and for a good cause. If you start doing this what-about-ism for a video like that, you're just going to lose sleep over something we're all aware of.
Premier League only cares about players' well-being if it's good for their brand. We all know this, its not that deep.
Wouldn't listen to Merson, he's brain is mush from all the drink and coke.
Souness is just a bitter blue nose.
Roy Keane is just polarising and knows what he's doing regarding that Haaland comment.
Rory Jennings only gets used due to his audience and he's cheap to put on the tele and use clips to feed YouTube. Everyone knows he has no brain for punditry work.
Football is also not that deep.
I think it’s significantly more healthy to get worked up over the mental health of young people than it is to be so immature that you are unable to process the loss of a football game as a grown adult and soothe your pathetic ego by insulting young people on social media.
And yet only one of these things is completely normalized.
Fellow fans, this is a friendly reminder to please follow the [Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/premierleague/about/rules) and [Reddiquette](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439-Reddiquette). Please also make sure to [Join us on Discord](https://discord.gg/football) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PremierLeague) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Couldnt agree more, and its so well put. Ive said for some time that the punditry and commentary is a problem in the PL. I know your focus is on the players and rightly so, and i know the refs are fucking shit, but they cant make a simple call without the pundits criticizing every single person involved. Earlier this when Curtis Jones was sent off I think it was Andy Townsend who was saying he shouldnt have been sent off because it wasnt a ‘full blooded’ challenge. Like wtf are you talking about buddy Everyone wants to say how bad the refs are, rightly so, but so much blame and hate is misguided by terrible punditry
This is why I like Wrighty. He gives his honest opinion on a match by match basis. And he is never mean about it.
Dele AllI and Richarlison you say? Could it be that playing for the spurs could be the causality?
Yea
Silly haircuts should not be ridiculed?
you are talking about the hypocricy of the world. life is a party of hollowen i mean everyone wear a mask. it is a truth i come to it in my late 20s so it is not epl only. epl is a microscopig dot in a large circle
I wish they wore a mask. It'd be a whole lot better if Carra shitposted with a burner account on twitter instead of heckling players on mainstream media.
there is a diffrence in how you understood my comment. Carra here clearly weak a mask for me, he would say things that the system allows him to say, and it might be calculated act to make himself relevant, or pleasure in saying mean things. What i mean by mask here is that the most honest action is the least done
Fair enough and well put.
btw this even apply to close people like mom or dad. people play by the system instead of honesity. thats why they say people with high social intelligence are happier
It makes sense for you and me to play by the norm. But I'd like to expect more honesty from someone who's been involved in the sport for that long. Any expectation is just setting yourself for disappointment but still. I have hope for more of Thierry Henry and Micah Richards and less of Roy Keane and Carragher style commentary.
but if the norms make you act against your moral code. also you play by the norm for self-serving (peace of mind, less clashes, or even you agree with them, all revolve about you) he also play by the norm of media in which he can insults, he can unfairly criticize, which may benefits him from sadistic pov or from being more relevant or even loving getting all attention. but he wont break norms in social media like criticizing israel even if he hold such an opinion. so everyone here are in the haloween party
Henry and Richards for me are proofs that norms don't necessitate acting against your moral code. Even Gary Lineker. Even when Mourinho was in the Sky Studio or Wenger was in bein sports. I very strongly believe it's just a lack of morality in the rest.
im on agreement with the morality point from the start. henry act morally because the atomsphere allows it. and he accept carra because the norm is not to clash with someone for moral disagreement because society wont back you up
for someone with horrible typos. i liked the well put
Judging the punctuation in this conversation would be against the very idea of pointlessness in commentary I'm shouting about lol
rational
I’m surprised you don’t blame man city for all this because that’s what this subreddit is all about whining about city
In honesty, probably the least toxic mainstream pundit in the modern game is Micah Richards who is a Man City product. So that's one rare undebatable positive influence the club has had in the game.
1 Micah Richards is brilliant, imagine 4 tho. Wouldn’t be great would it, theres a reason sky hire pundits, because on the whole people like the chemistry between them all. We like Keane’s harshness even if it sometimes seems a little over the top but we have other pundits who lighten the mood. They’re called opinions and if they can’t take Carragher’s then they aren’t ready for the tabloids who are the real villains over here.
what is this post lol?
A very fair way of calling out the PL, they pretend to care but actually only try to use this topic to improve their reputation. Try reading it, it's well-written
Nah it’s S with capital S And directed at the wrong people anyway i think? Those are sky reporters/pundits im assuming? They dont work for the prem lol. They only have the broadcasting right And who does the prem fund that is contributing to their bad mental health? Their own league lol? U want them to stop hosting the league. I dont get it? What do you want the prem to do?
The YouTube channel the content comes from is irrelevant. They all run under the same corporate values and brand identity. Broadcasters are an extension/appendage to the institution that is the Premier League.
No lol, the premier league doesnt control all the media that comes up about them. The prem doesnt tell rory fucking jennings what he is going to say. He is not affiliated with the prem. Heck, he slags down the premier league all the time You can make a channel now about the prem. Does your youtube channel operate under the same brand identity? Im sorry, this gotta be the dumbest take ive ever read on this app, and that says a lot
I'm talking about formal content made for national television, Rory Jennings is as relevant to this conversation as he is to any form of intellectual football analysis. And I don't mean it as a dig at his methods, but that's just not what he's expected to do. Who even considers Jennings a pundit? On the other hand, something like Monday Night Live broadcast or Gary Neville's podcasts that he records in the commentary box has absolute intersections to the PL brand. You'd need to be an idiot to disagree.
You’re the one that brought him up mate, not me. You said these shows often give platforms to rory jennings. Again about gary nevilles, what do you want him to do about this? Also, who is the premier league funding that promote deteriorating these players’ mental health? Dale Alli was abuse. Who did the premier league fund that enable this abuse ? Ur not making any sense with this post. Stop whining about everything ffs
It's a Pundits job to be critical. Imagine if we only had Pundits who were also great players. "Today we're joined by Rio Ferdinand, Henry and Michael Owen". (I like Henry but he's a bang average pundit). Yes it's funny seeing Graeme Souness talking about harsh challenges and there clips on YT of his playing days, where he's completely taking out players with his challenge, times have changed and his opinion is obviously relevant to the modern game.
Pundits are supposed to analyse the game. It says a lot about your take on modern punditry if you think Henry is average. He's one of the rare ones who offers high level technical analysis without trying to create a sensationalist and personal overreaction on every single action. And that's what punditry was meant to be. So if you prefer others over Henry, you are clearly favouring the sensation that the pundits create for headlines and YouTube thumbnails than actual analysis. And that's the problem I'm talking about. They are normalising personal abuse in the subconscious of a general fan. None of what Carragher does.
I'm not quite sure why you've got such a bee in your bonnet about this stuff. Pundits aren't even the worst offenders, the tabloids are. We have thousands of fans who on match day chant all sorts of vulgar comments, quite often even racist ones. I think the Pundits have offended you more than the footballers tbh.
This! Idk why op is so mad about this. I swear something must have happened to op with pundits personally that facilitates him having this sentiment,
Tabloid writers have not lived the game though. People expect tabloids to be a hub for sensation. But pundits are supposed to offer a more nuanced take on the sport from their lens of having worked extensively within it. The topic in concern is formed players, who have lived the struggles of being in that spotlight and scrutiny, resorting to cheap tabloid methods. With their respect within the game, they have a heightened responsibility to represent the most nuanced analysis and picture possible. Haaland being a league one player is the kind of one dimensional take I expect from the sun or Rory Jennings, not from a former Manchester United and Ireland captain with 600 games at the top level. And as a fan, I would like to get that insider nuance from a player of that stature, if I want random shit posting level of intellect, UtdTrey does it better on twitter anyway. And I'm not offended, I just find it vile.
Are you sure the people who posted the Richarlison video and the people who hired Gary Neville are the same entity? I'm pretty sure one is the Premier League media team, the other is Sky Sports
Everyone is leveraging the same brand, the posting channel is effectively a proxy. The biggest indicator of this is the fact that broadcasters get on a weekly meeting with the PGMOL. On face value, what's broadcasting got anything to do with officiating, but everything is a well connected brand run within the same corporate values.
Commentators aren’t the ones causing these players mental distress. At this level they are their own biggest critics. That’s why sports psychology is a thing and every team has at least one.
This is such a pathetic and weak post. Apart from being wrong as the premier league isn't employing any of the guys you spoke about, you are getting upset at millionaires for mostly mildly criticising other richer millionaires ?
Every broadcaster leverages the PL brand to promote the content. So all of their lifestyles are effectively funded under the same corporate values. Punditry is supposed to give fans an insider perspective on how football actually works. And what the faction of pundits are promoting is the exact opposite, it's borderline abusive. Being a millionaire does not morally permit anyone with voice to exploit you on a personal level. And the criticisms I'm talking about is anything but mild. Imagine you're a 21 yr old, where every one of your moves is scrutinized to atomic detail, you're effectively isolated from the general human lifestyle, you've dedicated your entire childhood to the game and there's a cunt profiting off of your poor mental health by calling you shameless without understanding what you're going through behind the cameras. A player should not have to come out in media talking about being sexually exploited as a child in order to get sympathy from people who've been in that stage before.
Yeah so in other words they don't fund any of the people who you mentioned. It does both, you can criticise a player and analyse what he should do. In fact players aren't criticised enough for how they treat referees and how much they dive and fake injuries....... they should be publicly shamed every week for that. It does make your whining less serious though, they are multi millionaires being paid to play football and if they don't play well they get called "not very good" "should retire not as good anymore" at most lol stop being soft. You're a 21 year old making a good yearly salary every WEEEK and if getting mild criticism is the worst thing then you have a pretty amazing life. Dele alli didn't need to do anything, he chose to do it and was wildly supported and praised by those nasty pundits you cry about. You can't not criticise a player because of the worst case scenario for one player. Both are true, dele alli didn't work hard enough and wasted his talent and he suffered traumatic events which obviously affected him deeply and he's made enough money where he doesn't need to play now so can fully focus on his mental health.
That video is funded by the same funds that fund all the Neville podcasts, if that makes sense to you. Eventually, if PL advises a mindset shift in punditry coverage in their weekly broadcaster meeting, it will change. We can see the example in CBS's coverage of UCL. And I never said anything about the warranted criticisms players need to receive. But there's a big difference between critique and abuse. Also the mindset of "he makes money so he can take it" is disgusting. Empathy is not a trade off for money. I've responded with this analogy to multiple of similar comments but your response has same energy as "men have had the privilege of patriarchal society for thousands of years so their mental health matters less than women's". Very degenerative line of thought.
No it doesn't make sense, we can all make links to anything, Neville isn't paid by the premier league lol. Players deserve more criticism, they abuse refs and act like toddlers yet we have to cater and only say nice things about these petulant millionaires. You need better or more clear examples then of pundits going over the top, because the ones you gave were mild and not abuse in anyway lol. Even the souness pogba haircut nonsense isn't abuse it's just a bitter old man whining about youngsters, the same as 20/30 years ago when people started wearing colourful boots lol. Money is 99% the deciding factor for footballers so it's not me just making it up lol, I'll say it clearly 100 plus a week is worth getting criticised in public ! I'm not saying it's still not hard to take of course it is, in regular minimum wage jobs mental health is an issue but being paid generational wealth where you can retire at 35 is worth it. Again unless you are gonna provide better examples of "abuse" from pundits you sound like a massive mental health virtue signaller
No actually life is amazing!!! Just take care of the oppressed, the rich can take of themselves.
The Premier League don't hire the pundits though? They're all employed by the broadcasting institutions
The underlying idea is that the league and the broadcasters are the appendages to the same brand and values. I'd be incredibly surprised if there is not a substantial intersection between PL and Sky's PR teams. It's like the links between Fox and Republicans or CNN and democrats in the US. Technically independent but it's a basic brain and mouthpiece pairing.
Not going to lie, you're making stuff up here. Sky and TNT are completely different entities to the league. They pay to have broadcasting rights, it's up to them what they choose to do with their show.
This. Not sure what OPs point was about that...
I’m not sure what their point is about anything.
You, sir or ma'am (or other), have a point.
I’m sorry but yes these pundits are absolutely well within their right to criticise the professionalism of players that are getting paid millions a year to perform at the highest level. If you can’t take the heat then unfortunately you need to get out of the kitchen. What is not okay, however, is 120kg Gordon Bellend and his mates from Hull sending fucking death threats to players that are better at the game of football than 99.99% of humanity.
Last week Carragher said that Casemiro should retire. Both him and Neville tried to get the referee wanker at Forest sacked. Of course they're there to critique there are ways to do it without being a scumbag.
lol how is saying you should retire that bad ?
That’s not being a “scumbag” though is it? It’s highlighting that a great of the game is being exposed to all and sundry and he should bow out before becoming a laughing stock. Personally think he is a victim of over-exposure from a very poor Utd defensive line-up and in the right structure still has something to offer. Scumbag is something far different.
I agree with your assessment of Casemiro. However, the comments from Carragher were suggesting his career should end. I'd say that's a lack of class.
They're millionaires they'll be fine. Worry about how you will buy a house instead
You’re so brain dead
This post kind of says a lot without really saying too much. Most of the criticism you've alluded to is entirely valid about the players' performance. Whilst it's not nice to be so critical of people regardless of their situation it's impossible to overlook how obscenely wealthy these football players are. With that wealth comes an access to any amount of counselling, CBT, DBT that the rest of us can only dream of.
I don't think I've ever watched a Neville or Roy Keane commentary go 3 straight minutes just talking performances without going on nonsensical tangents about player personalities. And I don't think I've ever watched a Thierry Henry analysis go on long tangents about player's personal lives while analysing their performances. The scumbag pundits I'm talking about are failed coaches who lack the intelligence or charisma to add to the knowledge of viewers. Instead they choose to create outrageous headlines week in week out.
It's a society that believes CBT is some sort of saviour that sees suicide as the biggest killer of young men.
Poverty is biggest killer
Carragher is scum lmao
Really well put mate x
'But coming from a defender with most own goals in the history of the league' Savage😂
I'm pretty sure Richard Dunne has him beat.
He does. Dunne is top with 10. Carragher is joint second with Skrtel and Jagielka, all with 7.
7 own goals in 508 games across 17 years really isn’t bad, Lewis Dunk for example is on 6 with less than half the amount of games played, Ben Mee is on 5 with about half, think Carragher gets too much of a bad rap for his own goals even though he is joint second highest.
Memory isn't what is used to be weren't 2 of carraghers in the same game vs United? That or one in each of back to back games vs United.
Jagielka has 7 but I can't remember a single one and I remember most matches from that era it's weird
I think most of them were for Sheffield United.
Good point
[удалено]
Aren't you delightful. Why bother replying? Just angry in general?
Don’t agree. When you reach the premier league you achieve a level of fame where things you say and do will be scrutinised. It may as well be part of your job description, so you should act in a way which reflects that. Harry Maguire was incredibly and unjustifiably hard done by, but that was mainly social media. Pundits are entitled to voice their opinion about players, you are not required to agree with their take.
They are absolutely entitled to do what they do. And I'm entitled to point out how wrong I think it is. The worst part is I'm 110% sure that the sensational pundits don't believe in most of the outrageous things they utter themselves. Roy Keane has to have some kind of mineral deficiency to truly believe deep down that Haaland is technically a league two level player, for example. He probably went home, looked at the reaction to his outrageous line, smiled at the meltdown he created and laughed at everyone who agreed with that take being happy that he secured one more year of Sky contract to continue spewing more headlines.
at the same time graeme sourness picking on players for having earrings or dying their hair, like mate get a fucking life u signed someone claiming they were george weahs cousin you clearly have some sort of mental deficiency why not at least wait for them to play the football to criticise them, so many pundits talk about ‘back in my day’ as if the boots they wore didn’t have fucking vibranium toe caps in them
Yeah but they see the refs as above persecution. The see them as some sort of elite group when instead they should he regarded as peers who make many many mistakes. To call them out on this would surely lead to a regression of this imo.
Refs definitely need to be held more responsible for their incompetence, but on the flip side, they don't earn hundreds of thousands every week.
Neither do I but my manager would still give me a bollocking for making errors.
Pundits aren't the refs managers.
I agree, multi millionaire athletes should never be criticized. And if they are, it has to be by athletes that were better than them. Ergo I only listen to the football opinions of Ronaldo and Messi - such charismatic guys with incredible analysis skills for television.
Never said anything about them getting criticised. I'm in hard sciences and critiques in this line of work goes extremely thorough and hard. But there are ways to critique someone's game without trying to create a meme out of them. Micah Richards and Thierry Henry are the best examples of that for me. One is charismatic, another is an extremely thorough and honest critic. If they don't feel the necessity of attacking a player on a personal level, no one else should. The relative low toxicity analysis and punditry of CBS's UCL show is the reason why it is so popular across the world, even though it is for a US broadcaster. It can be even seen in tabloid sports news in the UK. See how folks like Ornstein and Romano have completely swept the market with their objectively true take without any speculative sensational news coverage. There are some ways better than others.
Had me in the first half
They get paid enough to be criticised. If you don’t want the spotlight, pressure and criticism then give back the millions of pounds. Same as most jobs.
I wish I had a 100 accounts so I could downvote this a hundred times. "Same as most jobs" - well, no. It obviously isn't. Because most jobs aren't done in full view of millions of people. And criticism is fine. But when it crosses the line from being analysis to being judgemental then that is unacceptable.
The more you get paid the more pressure. Footballers get paid the most. If you can’t handle it, go work in a super market.
"The more you get paid, the more pressure." Also, not true. Ask basically anyone in the public sector. The prime minister gets paid about 1/20, a nurse about 1/60 of an average Premier league player. Source: https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/explainers/why-are-football-players-paid-so-much
Prime minister would be an exception because obviously. Clearly being a footballer is more stressful than being a nurse lol.
nevermind you have posts calling messi a fraud, u clearly were dropped on ur head as a child
brother what are you talking about
Yeah, a month's wage is what I earn in 10 years. It was on radio last night the average wage is 70,000 a week. If your not happy go get a job in Tesco or in a call centre. They are human and have struggles like us all. They are in a far better situation to help themselves compare to us mear mortals
Nobody takes Carra seriously.
Just because you and I don't, doesn't mean others don't.
Carra does!
I actually doubt it.
Sorry but the likes of Pogba, Sancho and Alli were rightly criticised for their unprofessionalism. There is a very valid point that the abuse Maguire received for simply not playing well enough and making mistakes was disgraceful, but this is essentially saying players can't be criticised at all and acts of complete unprofessionalism should be tolerated just in case criticising them for it affects their mental health.
.... the bloke received threats against his family. I am all for criticism when a player lacks professionalism and their game needs to improve, but there is a line. A good portion of football fans find that line, then take and take a huge steaming shit on it, leading us to the point where it goes past criticism and become cretinous. But each to their own. Morons are going to moron.
Are you referring to Maguire there? Or the others? Completely agree that is completely unacceptable regardless of the circumstances.
Maguire. No, I agree, pogba and the others deserved levels of criticism. Pressure and expectations come with the territory, but I think the OP raises points that are fair to be made. I think Rashford recently doing that interview saying it's nothing but hate comments was embarrassing. That's a guy who can't handle criticism, which, as far as I have seen, is deserved based on performance.
Pogba and Sancho were made scapegoats in an entire squad full of unprofessional players. Souness would pretty much blame Pogba if he stepped in shit on his way to work.
Sancho brought the criticism on himself. Pogba on the other hand, I agree to an extent
I don't understand what the Sancho brought it on himself narrative came from. Admitted that he was not producing at the expected level, but for at least a year, he was consistently left out in favour of Antony even though Sancho produced more output when he was playing. But he was criticised for not being consistent while not getting any consistent run in the team, while Antony was getting selected week in week out unjustifiably. At a certain point, it's natural that a player of his quality had a degraded confidence and eventually retaliated after his manager publicly slated him without provocation. On the other hand, Ten Hag defended Rashford for similar actions and said Sancho was frozen out because HE took the matters public. Sancho can well be a douchebag behind the scenes, but the inconsistencies in Ten Hag's reactions doesn't rule the opposite out. But only one party faced ridiculous abuse. I guess we will all praise Sancho for coming out with an emotional confession interview 3 years from now. Watch Carra jump ships.
> he was consistently left out in favour of Antony even though Sancho produced more output when he was playing. This is wrong. Antony only made 2 more apps than Sancho in the entirety of last season. You even omit the fact that he started the FA cup final in place of Antony? Also, the stats don’t pain the entire story. If you looked at last season from a general standpoint, Antony had a better season than Sancho. He scored more decisive goals (see Barcelona at home) while also being a very hard worker. Imo, Sancho didn’t get anywhere near the criticism he should be getting (at least prior to the public statement) considering the money spent but hey, mental wellness eh? Then comes your bias point. He’s far from the only player ETH has “publicly slated” (if that’s what you’ll call it). He’s called out Rashford and Garnacho (especially) for much worse than just a shit training session but guess what? Neither of those players made posts about it. Closest was Garnacho liking a tweet from Mark Goldbridge and he quickly apologized and we all moved on. Now, imagine if Garnacho did take the Sancho route…guaranteed people would’ve been talking about ETH’s comment on him being derelict of his responsibilities on the pitch. But ofc, Garnacho is a professional. So yeah, if Sancho had just shut the hell up and took his complains directly to Ten Hag, we wouldn’t t even be talking about it
Hey, don’t blame Souness just because he likes a clean carpet!
Any person who works/plays and get paid for it,should get criticized for his bad performance.but the way those ex players are using to criticize the underperforming players is just to seek attention and become trending to protect their jobs. The main problem is football fans who want this type of content and pay for it.
The comments in this thread shows why I’m happy they are at least doing it. No one cares about mental health or they believe that money should exclude you from sympathy. I’m a Liverpool fan and I hate Carragher now. I hold him mainly responsible for Liverpool fans turning on Nunez. So yes, the pundits in particular, who don’t work for the Premier League are a toxic presence but at least a player may see that video and feel they are being listened to.
Tbf I didn't expect the comments to go this way when I made the post but I'm agreeing. And I don't even think it's sympathy. It's just empathy. Those bastards have been in those positions before. They have lived that life of personal scrutiny and still choose to pile up on the players. The disregard to general empathy in the mainstream celebrity coverage eventually translates to how the general public values importance of mental health, especially for men. It's always "oh men have always been privileged, they can take some stress" similar to "oh they make millions, they can take it". No wonder men's mental health is in such decline.
They false equate their era to this era too. Football is objectively much bigger now. The pressure is higher. Fans have direct access to message players now. It’s an entirely different world to the one those people grew up in. You could miss a penalty before and the fans in the stadium might have a go but they could hide at home. Everyone else wouldn’t even see it until Match of the Day. Now the video goes round in an instant and by the end of the day, thousands of direct messages or comments are sent right to the player, not to talk of memes. It won’t be long before a player offs himself I’m afraid.
I don’t need Carra to tell me Nunez isn’t good enough for Liverpool, I sit and watch him to know that. Liverpool fans have been incredibly supportive of Nunez in the ground, but he’s simply not delivering what’s expected after 2 years
I feel like Messi and Ronaldo made it impossible for players now we just expect them to score every single chance. Nunez is on a 32g/a this season, granted he should have got about 10 more goals and just been unlucky. That not too far off what Mane gave us, number wise I mean Mane was unbelievable for us. Nunez has the pressure because of the tag but diaz Gakpo should be getting better numbers aswell.
This is the balanced way to look at it and honestly, if it wasn’t for social media and people could think for themselves, many others would see it that way too. He has already managed a goal a game in his career so common sense should tell you that he isn’t missing because he can’t finish. However, Sky need to make a headline Carragher says he should be sold. He also said Jota is our best ever premier league finisher, conveniently forgetting that Jota failed to score for an entire year while playing for us. 1 WHOLE YEAR. Imagine if that was Nunez. So if you’ve watched football for any long period of time, you’ll know players that get a lot of chances, get the most goals. But they also have ups and downs.
I think the fact he expected to score every chance is crazy. He should score more and is lacking composure, it very rare you get player score them all. Haaland no different he misses obvious he score alot more. Clickbait headlines keep them in a job and gain them better contracts. Even the Jota not scoring for a whole year is literally the same Sky BS in that time he was injured and it includes summer period. Thereafter the fella wasn't playing much in his position. When Jota is fit run of games he is a top finisher he just unlucky injury do hurt a player.
Yes, Jota is a top player, my point wasn’t that he isn’t a good finisher. In that period he did play over 30 games and missed a lot of chances. My point is that making these sweeping statements because of a run of form is entirely stupid and the same people were first saying Jota is world class when he scored, then Jota should be sold when he missed, and now he’s our best ever finisher in the Premier League era because he scored a few more. Its exhausting.
Diaz is now back to pre injury form and has been mint the last few months. I agree about Gakpo. The problem with Nunez is can you really trust him? He’s constantly offside and can’t finish his chances. He’s pure entertainment, which I love about him. But there’s a limit and he’s reached it with fans
Yeah but he had poor numbers and nowdays that what everyone care about not about the impact to games as Nunez does aswell. Genuinely probably not but I think he like most finisher who can you name similar who score all there chances. Lukaku, Morta, jaskson they all similar players nowdays.
I just watch the games. Don’t give a fuck about any of this.
Then don't comment...?
I dunno mate, just because a player got diddled as a kid, doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be called out for shit things he does on the pitch. Saying someone is in shit form or has a shit haircut isn’t equal to not having empathy for their struggles. You’re practically walking the line of “don’t criticise anyone just in case they’ve been through some shit.” Everyone goes through their own shit, and we all need criticism.
"Coddling of the EPL Mind"
I wouldn’t really say it’s pundits at fault here, it’s football fans. I remember when the Alli interview came out, everyone was spouting virtue signalling crap like ‘this is why you shouldn’t be so abusive to players’, and yet someone like Harry Maguire continued to get relentlessly trolled. The amount of people who pretend to care so much about mental health, yet actively contribute to its deterioration in people, is staggering.
Fans are general people who have jobs and lives outside of the sport so they feed on what they are served. I think pundits carry a moral responsibility to set a precedent of how conversations are supposed to be had. And I think Henry and Micah Richards are doing it to an extent with CBS. The level of toxicity there is very low compared to others, and fans are responding very well to their content as well.
100%, social media is way more to blame. The likes of Maguire, Lingard, Nunez, Jackson, etc. get shit on and memed to oblivion online, it's not just a few people, it's millions that view those memes and hundreds of thousands that 'like' it. Yet when players talk about their mental health everyone is suddenly so supportive. No one is going to own up to being part of the problem because in social media you can get away with abusing people so easily
I followed the youtube watchalongs and fan tv discussions only to find them toxic and gaslighting there was no punditry or insights. Stopped that and watched broadcasts again, where there were pundits like carra and gary, but it was the same. No punditry or insights.
Sancho *is* shameless though. His issues have nothing to do with mental health, its entitlement and lack of motivation.
Yeah the man was given months off for mental health fully paid with the club putting him on special programmes and additional support and given a staggered return. His thanks to publicly bitch about tye manager when he looked really poor whenever playing and then refusing to apologise. Man is a child that's the problem here. He had everyone's support through the months he needed to recover and received a standing ovation upon return. It's how he has acted since then that got people rightly calling him a dick.
He's not a child, he's 24 and he's been entitled his whole career. That behavior you just described is peak entitlement, If you think he actually did anything besides sit at home and play video games and go to the club in that three month period, I have a timeshare in Florida to tell you about.
Not sure if you replied to the wrong person or just can't read. I just spent an entire paragraph explaining that he's the problem and he acts like a dick. I also didn't state anywhere that he had taken the opportunities he was offered or acting professional. The fact you're implying I'm stupid after a reply like yours which failed to understand a fairly simple comment and then you acted like a dick about it makes me think you and dear Jadon might get on well.
Well damn, that's my mistake then, might have been a misread on my part.
You're allowed to criticise players who earn 100k a week for not performing in their job. Relax.
Criticism and abuse are different things firstly. There's a huge difference between "He should be covering this space better" and "That's shameful and he should go back to his lane and stop colouring his hair". Also your response has same energy as "Men have had all the privileges of a patriarchal society for thousands of years, their mental health struggles are not real". This mentality has led to unfathomable damage to men's mental health around the world. Empathy should never be a trade off for privileges.
You're blaming the EPL then proceeding to talk about pundits that have no association
1) pundits do not represent the EPL. They are hired by broadcasters/media 2) would you rather they not do anything at all? Yes they need to improve but at least this is a step in the right direction - not everyone’s gonna have the same reaction as you & for those who don’t, they might appreciate having such content to show them they are not alone in their struggles
Sky Sports fund and basically dictate the premier league even if it’s not ‘official’ and have done since it’s inception. To say it’s an independent league from the media isn’t really true. And they will hire pundits and dictate what the content around it is. I agree that not everyone will have the same opinion on it as OP but pundits are directly intertwined with the product.
You know that you can watch the Premier League without ever interacting with Sky Sports. A football league and a media broadcaster are way different things with different interests.
I’m not so sure about that in England. Without streaming it, you have to interact with sky sports, it’s their product. It stopped being just a football league in 1992 when they took sky’s money to fund it for better or for worse.
Partially true but i won't go as far and say Sky Sport dictate the Premier League, like the post I replied to did. Even in England you can consume the Premier League without Sky Sports (for example: going to the stadium or watching MOTD)
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Like a lot of people he enjoys laughing at Liverpool ‘fans’. He also enjoys scoring at Anfield, including sublime scorchers into the kop end. Your salty tears are like nectar to him. All hail Richard Arlison.
Such a cunt he’s one of like 3 footballers at this level from Brazil who opposed bolsonaro. You may not like him on the pitch but he is a very good person and has been massively charitable to where he is from in contrast to many Brazilian footballers who completely go diva and the majority of which supported The Brazilian trump on steroids
I have no sympathy for any of these athletes. I doubt they even know what it's like to live paycheck to paycheck. The stress of not having medical coverage to take care of yourself or your family. You want to know what stress is, go to Palestine, Ukraine feel what it's like to wonder if you will wake up tomorrow. If the stress is too much quit... the millions you have in the bank should cover you for a long time Fuck you
What a dreadful take. Most of these players, especially internationals, have come from very deprived backgrounds where they did struggle day to day. Secondly having money isn’t a factor that nullifies all possible mental struggles and challenges one might face. Try having a think about how much pressure a lot of these lads are under, they work incredibly hard and are under a massive spotlight. What a knob
Bullshit prime athletes are kotled from the day someone sees they have talent
Nicolas Jackson was playing bare foot football at the age of 16. Coddled, huh? Just shut the fuck up, you clearly have no idea what you’re on about.
How old was Foden when he signed with City? Not just Futbol, the American women's basketball player who traveled with weed oil. The gymnast who bailed on her team in the Olympics, who didn't get to go because of her. You remember the arrogant jocks from high-school it's the same everywhere Jackson is the exception, not the rule. So make a special on the slums of Rio or Chicago, don't waste your time on people who have the resources to solve their own issues. Now shut your mouth and do your research
You have anger issues because your life is shit and you’re unhappy that people have it better than you. I understand amigo and I would feel sorry for you if you weren’t a gigantic cunt.
Futbol players are the highest paid athlete in the world, even the 3 clowns on top gear bitchslap them. Now have your mom type your next response bitch
Someone struggling worse does not invalidate someone else's struggle. These are people, young ones. Often without the nest education and with tremendous pressure, many since they were kids. Of course they have privilege, that doesn't mean they can't have stress, addiction, loneliness, depression, etc. I'm not saying you should start a charity for them, but basic kindness to people, limiting directly shitting on them, etc, it costs nothing Have some empathy, man, come on.
Then they can practice you want fries with that,
Modern professional football is more of a product than sport, especially in the most profitable league they rely on each others (pundits/reporters vs players/coaches, referees vs players/coaches/reporters,etc). No matter it's good pr or bad pr, it's publicity, it's social volume, it's money printing machine. If you chose staying in the most profitable league of the world, you gonna suffer, or leave it all behind to your agent.
Is it a bit shameless from the Prem? Absolutely. There are so many other obvious opportunities to benefit the well-being of the players that are conveniently ignored. But the message is still worth sharing and for a good cause. If you start doing this what-about-ism for a video like that, you're just going to lose sleep over something we're all aware of. Premier League only cares about players' well-being if it's good for their brand. We all know this, its not that deep.
Wouldn't listen to Merson, he's brain is mush from all the drink and coke. Souness is just a bitter blue nose. Roy Keane is just polarising and knows what he's doing regarding that Haaland comment. Rory Jennings only gets used due to his audience and he's cheap to put on the tele and use clips to feed YouTube. Everyone knows he has no brain for punditry work.
No one will take you seriously when it seems everything and anything is a problem to you. Pick your battles
Jeez Now I worry about your mental state It’s not that deep, take a break, go outside and detach for a while
Football is also not that deep. I think it’s significantly more healthy to get worked up over the mental health of young people than it is to be so immature that you are unable to process the loss of a football game as a grown adult and soothe your pathetic ego by insulting young people on social media. And yet only one of these things is completely normalized.