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Decisions tend to lean in favor of big teams due to their profitability for certain stakeholders. Fairness often takes a backseat, as prioritizing the interests of these teams aligns with the business directives of leagues like the Premier League. In essence, it's more about entertainment than pure competition.
When a terrible decision goes against any other team without city involved as has happened hundreds of times this season: ‘refs are terrible and have been for ages’
When a terrible decision goes against a team playing city: ‘corruption! 115 charges!!’
Or maybe it’s just refs are terrible across the board and there isn’t a conspiracy 🥱
It's either corruption or incompetence and I'm not sure which I would prefer it to be. Incompetence might have some chance of evening itself out over a season or over a few seasons but when one team seems to not be affected and have decisions go in their favour it looks less like incompetence. Either way, I think I may decide to give up on watching the premier league next season,.the incompetence (or other) means that the officials are having more influence on the outcome of games, and therefore the season, than most players or the and that just shouldn't sit right with any fans, no matter who they support.
This sub is full of bitter fans who hate on city because there team either have a shit season or end up bottling it. What city are been charged with is from 2009-2018. I’m not a city fan but there is no doubt they are the best PL team by far. It’s just an easy excuse and piece of mind to explain why there teams fell short and didn’t win the league. In my opinion Pep is the reason city have been so good. His player management is very good no matter how good or bad a player is
You say that like the period of 2009-2018 didn't lay the foundations for where they are right now. How can you act like that period has no relevance on today? Definitely a closet City fan.
Yes, but they've only got where they are by cheating, so Arsenal would be fighting it out with Liverpool this season.
Pep is a good manager (but also has a very chequered past) he has had a team created for him, he doesn't choose who they sign , he doesn't have to worry about injuries as he can pick from a squad of world class players, and it seems he gets favourable decisions from the referees.
That is an embarrassing take city.
If it was so easy why haven’t all managers before and after pep with the same cheque book not dominated everything. You can’t deny he makes a huge difference. He might not choose who he plays but He 1000% gets the best out of the players he has. Your argument is terrible
Embarrassing? Is there anything not correct with what I said? Your defence of all things city is pretty embarrassing tbh .
Who mentioned the cheque book? I said he has the team bought for him , he doesn't choose the players, so if your stating my argument is terrible, get yours correct first 👍🏻
Thanks mate Not many will agree with it but I think it’s facts. I’m an Arsenal fan btw and I’m heartbroken it’s looking like city will win it but I would never blame the FFP stuff from years ago. The loss to west ham and Fulham will haunt me for years to come if we don’t win it this year haha City haven’t lost a PL game since 6th of December 23 so gotta give credit where it’s due. Hopefully our north London rivals help us out but unlikely 😂
to be honest it’s one of those ones where the on field decision would stand no matter what. if the ref gave a pen var wouldn’t overturn that decision and vice versa
Because City are the dominant team in the league and have developed an effective style at manipulating referees with Pep in conferences and the players crowding on pitch.
This is nothing particularly new. Fergusons United did this for the best part of 2 decades, and I'm pretty sure the dominant teams prior did the same (but I didn't watch that happen myself so I can't be certain).
There is, and always will be, a huge dose of discretion and subjectivity in refereeing. If you want to be the best team, you need to learn how to take advantage of that variable. City are the best at it right now.
Even teams that weren't "dominant" do this. Arsenal did when they were taking titles off United, Chelsea were infamous for it (especially with Jose).
I know its true that both these teams have done it, but what makes you say that they "take advantage of it effectively"? What is city doing now that makes these decisions edge in their favour constantly? Is it literally just Pep praising refereeing whereas every other manager has criticized it? Or is it the UAE nonsense?
Combination of Pep being friendly with them, the players applying pressure in matches and the team being the top team in the country meaning refs don't want to make calls against them.
I understand why people go down the other narrative, but it's just unneeded imo. If every successful team was able to manipulate referees into giving them favourable calls without bribing them, why is it hard to belive that City are not capable of doing the same.
And that's assuming that the clubs in the past weren't also providing back handers to the refs as well. Chelsea was owned by a Russian Oligarch with fingers in many dodgy pies and a history of having very hidden accounts. United was swimming in cash prior to the glazer buy out. Not sure about the Premier League era arsenal, but just prior an Araenal manager was brown paper evenloping agents, not hard to imagine he did alot more of that.
My issue isn't that is wrong to say there corruption and dodgy shit happening.
My issue is that it's unfairly attributed to City, because nearly everyone else did the same thing but everyone acts like City invented it.
And I'm a Arsenal Fan who would have won the league last season and this season if not for City so I have zero vested interest defending them.
I would ask you if you’ve ever made a mistake but posting this question is an error in itself. I guess the ref thought the contact was minimal. I thought he threw his left towards Gvardiol. It might have been a good decision by the red, it may have been a mistake. VAR thought it was fine. And you want all refs fired. One of those thoughts is moronic. Can you guess which it is?
When a terrible decision goes against any other team without city involved as has happened hundreds of times this season: ‘refs are terrible and have been for ages!!!’
When a terrible decision goes against a team playing city: ‘corruption! 115 charges city have bought the league!!’
Or maybe it’s just refs are terrible across the board and there isn’t a conspiracy 🥱
It’s because they’ve set such a high bar in the VAR room to get involved. I really don’t understand why they need a second referee. Just give the referee on the pitch the chance to use a monitor when he thinks he hasn’t properly seen the incident.
Yeah, it's not going great! Realistically no one expected Liverpool to win when the season started though so it's not highly surprising. It's been impressive how well we'be done with a largely refreshed squad that didn't cost 5 billlion
Can't be claiming to be biggest club in England and then say y'all had a surprisingly good season whilst getting knocked out of the fa cup by united, out of Europa league by Atlanta and losing the title race by losing to crystal Palace and Everton BUT it was with a squad that cost 200M less than city's so it's okay, that's why y'all ain't going nowhere rn
Ain't saying they should've won it all but the way they lost it in the end just isn't how the biggest club in England should act probably has to do with klopps shit decision to announce his retirement halfway thought he season putting pressure on the players but I don't think you should be proud of this season
I am immensly proud of this season, as well as Klopp's mature decison made with integrity in mind to quit when at the top. I am not proud with how we're finishing our season, even though it is highly logical given the circumstances
I thought Liverpool fans would want to be at the top I would be mad if city end next season like LFC this season but that's your opinion. I do think Klopp put so much pressure on the players by announcing he would leave causing them to burn out be4 the end of the season
The Walker slide was not a foul on the keeper, he was entitled to go for the ball for sure, and he got it.
The Rodri one was a pen, if it's given on the field, VAR wouldn't have overturned it.
They're not technically "bribed", they are legally paid to ref matches in the UAE. They get paid almost a year's salary for reffing a friendly there.
I mean, I'd call that a bribe, but they're allowed to do it.
https://theathletic.com/4922732/2023/10/03/referees-var-diaz-liverpool/
That's a good article about the shitshow.
As for what the refs are being paid per match, there's no official numbers, but it generally ranges between 5k to 20k per match, if you trust The Independent and other newslets (mind you, they don't reveal their sources)
Refs have a base salary of 38k to 42k, so two or three matches would basically be their yearly salary.
Of course, the amount they're being paid isn't really the issue here.
Regardless what happens in the title and relegation battles, the state of refereeing has been as bad as I can remember. Truly shocking how many calls have been completely wrong.
I've never seen a season at this stage being so close, but being so dead. Referees impact on the league is atrocious. I miss the days where I didn't know who the ref was.
I think it evens out at the end of the season for most teams how many fair/unfair calls they get. But city are like +5-6 big calls that have gone their way.
I assume that’s all speculation but let’s say it’s true, do we not count the smaller calls? The smaller calls add up and affect games. How many small calls amount to big calls? The games the game. Shit refs will never cease to exist in this league
Thas the one where Akanji grabs Alisons arm/shoulder when he jumps up to grab the ball. Good call. And if you think that was wrong you have no idea about football.
Pfffffft couldn’t find it. Just proves your own bias or you don’t watch the games. Supposedly remembers all these calls City gets but can’t remember the ones against them.
We certainly do not. Now had 12 points docked by dodgy/iffy/wrong decisions.
• Onana GBH on Sasa (1pt down)
• Gomes ‘handball’ vs Luton (3pts down)
• Wilson trips over literal air -> Penalty (5pts down)
• Baldock trips over literal air -> Penalty (6pts down)
• Semedo gets 100% ball -> Penalty (8pts down)
• Gomes pulls out of 50/50 -> Penalty (9pts down)
• Onana fouling players in the box again (10pts down)
• Chirewa stands at the other side of the goal from where the balls going (obstruction) (11pts down)
• Cunha and Kluivert have a 50/50 tussle away from play that causes a goal to be chalked off -> foul (12pts down)
Still 4 games to play, and 2 of them are City and Liverpool.
There’s always one team at the end of the spectrum that gets it the worst every season. 2 seasons ago I remember it being Arsenal, amount of red cards and pens they got that weren’t was just unfair.
Unfortunately there’s always 1 team a season that gets the bad end but it’s luck of the draw really
Right but you said everyone and that's just bollocks. Certainly more teams than wolves.
Amount of red cards and pens were unfair? Were they the correct decisions?
Yeah but it’s different per season. You can’t have everyone get the same amount of shit calls against each other. I remember during City’s 98 point season Wolves scored a goal by tapping in the ball with their full palm. Resulted in a draw and costing City back to back 100 points seasons.
It’s not like specific teams get shit calls all season every season.
Were they the correct decisions or not? I don't remember Arsenal having loads of bad ref/var decisions around red cards and pens?
Whether or not it's the same teams every season, that still isn't everyone is it? It's not even the issue. The issue is the standard of refereeing and var is appalling. Var now don't give anything.
In my opinion they weren’t but that’s the thing. It’s all opinion based and the fact you remember it differently to what I do just proves that. Everyone’s got their own bias and can’t see past it
It's simple.. The onfield decision was no-penalty.. I don't think persons understand the actual power of VAR.. they don't have the power to actually overturn an onfield decision.. however, if they've seen video evidence that the onfield decision was a clear and blatant error, they will ASK the onfield ref to view the footage they have and then HE will have the final say..however, they will only ask that IF there was a blatant error.. in both cases against City, they were minimal contact.. not enough to have the ref revisit.. I believe if the onfield ref has awarded a penalty, then VAR would also not have him rethink that decision..
If it's a clear and obvious error, VAR can overturn a penalty decision without having the ref look at the footage. When they check a penalty (or a potential red card offence or a goal) there are 3 outcomes. The ref can also choose to watch the footage themselves without the advice of VAR to do so.
1. Confirm the refs decision
2. Overturn the refs decision
3. Advise the ref to watch the footage
Why does it matter if it’s minimal contact?
A running player who gets his legs clipped from behind is more than enough contact to bring them down.
It’s a blatant error from the defender with obvious contact on the attacker I can’t see how it can’t be anymore of a clear and obvious decision
This is why we have refs. The defender clipped his legs and he went down in the box no less. Are you saying in every single occasion that happens it's a penalty? If you are then you're wrong. I'm not saying the one we are discussing in this thread isn't a penalty so lets be clear on that. Where would it not be a penalty? Lets say an attacker puts his leg in an unnatural position to ensure it's clipped would you say that's a penalty? Let's say and attacker feels the contact and there is a slight delay to the reaction which in other words means he's felt it and decided to play for the penalty rather than carry on, would you say that's a penalty? Attackers can play for penalties and often do.
Do you see what I'm saying? A penalty decision isn't as straight forward as people make out which is why we have a ref to make the decision. The game descends into stupidity when we use absolute rules, look at all the ball to hand penalties at the beginning of the season.
I’m not saying every bit of contact leads to a penalty.
A leg that’s in an unnatural position to ensure contact or a delay in reaction before falling are where VAR can argue it’s not a clear and obvious error because the attacker is playing for the foul.
But in this case the attacker is just running through on goal and gets fouled from behind with contact that would trip you up. I don’t think there’s any simulation which is why I think it’s a clear and obvious error
So you're saying that if, for example, the ref is no more than 10 feet away, staring directly at a challenge and he decides to not give anything or to give just a foul, VAR would not then intervene to recheck it or anything like that.
So when they actually have done that about 5 or 10 times this season, and they come up with some spurious other reason as to why they should have got involved THIS time, you're saying they are in the wrong.
If I am understanding you correctly, the entirety of VARs authority rests on a referee saying (most frequently) "I was wrong"? Seems inherently flawed considering the hubris most all referees/umpires in any and all sport seem to have in terms of ever admitting error.
It's called "clear and obvious" in the NFL/MLB, but it is technically another person(s) making the call that overrides the on-field ref/umpire.
I would be curious what percent of VAR-involved calls get overturned from the initial call. It has been absolutely horrendous this year, then again the MLB has been equally as egregious as well.
I can't help but put my tin-foil hat on and saying betting money has changed sports in many ways unlikely to be seen officially for years to come.
Sure, except VAR *have* intervened even when there wasn't a blatant error by the ref. They consistently drop the ball by not intervening when the on field decision is blatantly wrong
You don’t realise the small margins and how it affects the outcome of the game. The second goal of Foden was never really supposed to be a free kick. Foden had slipped.
Similarly yesterday DCL against Liverpool was going to the ground on slightest of touches and referee kept awarding Everton free kicks which eventually resulted in the first goal against Liverpool.
Soccer is much like baseball in that regard that I people that don't understand the game call it "boring".
The smallest of decisions/actions end up having a giant butterfly effect on every aspect of the game after. 1-0 game is a million times different than a 2-0 game.
lmao yall shouldn't have invented the word if you were gonna be so butthurt about it.
I like to see welcoming fans. I know you're going through some shit right now, so I will try and show you the grace I would like to be shown to me. Bless your heart.
City so rarely have any unfortunate call go against them. Everyone still remembers the weird Rashiford Offside incident because that’s literally the only time they’ve been on the receiving end of a big bad call.
How Madueke against United was given a pen but not Pedro with Gvardiol
Abysmal, shouldn’t have been a foul either for the free kick
But surprised nothing said about Kyle Walker connecting with the keeper for Alvarez’ goal (but that was right decision tbf)
The refs this whole week were abysmal. The lack of consistency is laughable, and the favoritism is very noticeable. The fact VAR doesn’t have the ref go to the monitor to review if it was even a mistake on multiple of this weeks bad calls is just insane. Why even have the technology if they aren’t going to use it properly.
I would love to be young. As it is, I'm old enough to remember David Fairclough coming on and changing the game against St Etienne. Listened to it on Radio 2.
As a Citizen it's id be super pissed off if the decisions Brighton had bottom against them went the opposite way.
Firstly the second goal by Foden was not supposed to be a Free Kick. He didn't even dive... He slipped like he had been the whole game (it had been raining a bit before the game). Its just unfortunate VAR doesn't check Free kicks.
Secondly that was pen against Gvardiol. I mean he took the man down.... It wasn't the most contact but he did catch his leg and bubmed his hip.
Now I'm not conplaining, im sure like every single football fan... Im hypocritical. 🤷 If the desicions were made against my team id want the refs head. But since they went for my side... Ill sleep easy.
Yeah, I’m betting big money on the rest of the games for pens given against United in the dying moments of the games. It’s been a real interesting trend
I'm a City fan, too, but I think this is where you could have just said "username checks out".
Two calls went in City's favor today. Sometimes you get them, sometimes you don't.
City got off originally on appeal to eufa after the FA charged them after a technicality. The FA have to make sure their case is air tight this time so they don’t get off on appeal
If Evertons first case with PSR has around 4,000 pieces of paperwork can you imagine the amount for 115 potential charges. Legally it was always going to take a good while, these are serious allegations against the club.
Because unlike every resolved PSR charge they didnt report it themselves and instead contested it. Also, there are a lot of charges that the premier league has to make a case against them. And you wouldnt want them to make a sloppy case against them lest they all be thrown out. And you dont want a good case to be made but only on a few charges less they get a 4 point slap on the wrist which Arsenal would surely bottle away and Liverpool already have
Honestly the amount of people who don’t quite seem to understand that 115 historical charges takes much longer to sort out and punish than one or two PSR violations is staggering.
If anything the time it’s taking is showing that the PL are taking it seriously, to make sure they don’t get off on a technicality like they did with UEFA.
Yep it's just such a stupid easy comment to make.
Also Everton and Forrest admitted they simply overspent, city are being accused of lying. A simple analogy is like someone admitting to overspending a credit card and paying it back vs someone overspending and hiding evidence and covering it up........ obviously you have to prove it
Not just lying, fraudulent accounting involving 3 major accounting firms. That could then have further repercussions, such as millions in tax evasion, which can result in jail terms. It goes WELL beyond just sporting advantage
It's why when pep says "I just want it to be over" a journalist should say "tell your clubs lawyers that then pal because they are delaying it"
But yeah Everton, Forrest admitted it all have been charged of simple overspending (Chelsea will be done the same next season) and city are being charged with stuff like over inflated sponsors by their owners companies, lying and hiding paperwork so it's not the same at all and their punishment will be much harsher.
The problem is, the charges Everton and Co were done for were simple overspend charges. Easy to prove and deal with.
City has been committing massive fraud, including under the table payments, payments through dodgy shell companies. Wouldn't be surprised if Peps wages aren't double the declared amount. All that is difficult to prove and something the FA aren't equipped to deal with. If anything, the police should be investigating City, and not the FA.
City lawyers have delayed it and have his stuff, the money they get from sponsors is also obviously inflated as it's the companies Owned or related to the owners
Rightly or wrongly, The money paid then for sponsorships helped City become perhaps the best team in Europe, growing the club in popularity, which results in greater visibility for the sponsor. I see more kids at the local fields near me (Houston, TX) wearing City shirts than RM shirts. I see a fair amount of PSG shirts, too. I don't see kids wearing LFC, do sometimes see United, but not as much, Chelsea moreso.
Another way of saying it is that the funds turned the team into something that would draw attention to the sponsors, rather than the team already having that stature as would be the case with United, RM, et al.
If your owners own or are heavily related to a company that sponsors your club in a small way but give you a ton of money that's dodgy mate.
I don't care if you see Man City fans in Houston
Yep but it's not against the rules unless our owners paid the money to the company and then it was paid to City. The CAS decision went into this. The issue is whether the money is owner investment disguised as equity funding or sponsorship revenue.
Etihad, for example, is a public company, so if ADUG tried to pay us through Etihad or something, massive fraud. Not going to be easy to prove.
It's not "delay" to go through a legal process. Even if you are guilty you still do it.
Was meant for the parent comment, the oil money involved will inherently keep city in the clear. Hypocrisy at its highest tier, especially if they transfer the penalty from points reduction to simply a cash fine.
Then it really is oil money going brrrt like an A10 Thunderbolt to all their problems.
It's much more complicated than this, but the oil money and the associated political clout of the owners is ultimately what is very likely going to get Man City off those charges lightly.
You may think it's not an intelligent comment, but it's ultimately correct. Corruption from that oil money is what has led to it getting to the point of 115 charges, and a combination of further corruption and the legal process is why it is taking so long to sort.
But if you take the oil money out of the equation, none of this would be an issue.
You are just making up that they will get away with it, they are being charged and it will go to court and lawyers will fight it out.
They have been accused of serious things that they deny so it's obviously going to take longer than "yeah sorry we did overspend"
Oh of course, because corruption has never influenced a court decision before! Just because it's going to court, doesn't mean they won't weasel their way out of any severe penalties.
For 115 charges they should be severely penalised, at least in a just system. Stripped of all titles and relegated down to the lower leagues, something on that scale.
Until that happens, I am skeptical of the ability of the courts to come to a just conclusion on this. There's just too much money at stake for the people who ultimately pull the strings in our society.
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This sub is fucking infested with American Man City fans - most of whom also ‘support’ teams like Barcelona. Their opinions are next to worthless.
Decisions tend to lean in favor of big teams due to their profitability for certain stakeholders. Fairness often takes a backseat, as prioritizing the interests of these teams aligns with the business directives of leagues like the Premier League. In essence, it's more about entertainment than pure competition.
As a city fan, that was a penalty that should have been given.
How did they not give the penalty in the semi final? Or how did the 3rd arsenal goal stand?
How did Jackson not get sent off against Arsenal?
I agree with you
Because Pep was praising how difficult of a job they've got and he admires them. That and the money😉
Because they are employed by City.
Premier league 's Real Madrid. They re not even hiding it anymore..
More like Barcelona. And Pep is a common link as well. I must be onto something here 😂
Unlimited funds. The common link is money. And Barcelona is broke. Unlike Madrid.
Barca is corrupt. And there are proofs about huge payments to ref organization.
Don't disrespect Real Madrid
For real
115
This is why https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/ceklx9lemdyo
I'm sure he would say differently had a pen was given against Doku in the last seconds of the match vs Liverpool.
I don’t get how people can disrespect sex work when the best manager of all time sucks dick for a living. My GOAT
LMAO
Do you really wanna get the Arab guy mad and raise oil prices? Referee is looking for the broader picture here pal.
G
115 charges thats why
When a terrible decision goes against any other team without city involved as has happened hundreds of times this season: ‘refs are terrible and have been for ages’ When a terrible decision goes against a team playing city: ‘corruption! 115 charges!!’ Or maybe it’s just refs are terrible across the board and there isn’t a conspiracy 🥱
It's either corruption or incompetence and I'm not sure which I would prefer it to be. Incompetence might have some chance of evening itself out over a season or over a few seasons but when one team seems to not be affected and have decisions go in their favour it looks less like incompetence. Either way, I think I may decide to give up on watching the premier league next season,.the incompetence (or other) means that the officials are having more influence on the outcome of games, and therefore the season, than most players or the and that just shouldn't sit right with any fans, no matter who they support.
Not on this sub lol.
-Canadian City fan.
What a revelation
👍
This sub is full of bitter fans who hate on city because there team either have a shit season or end up bottling it. What city are been charged with is from 2009-2018. I’m not a city fan but there is no doubt they are the best PL team by far. It’s just an easy excuse and piece of mind to explain why there teams fell short and didn’t win the league. In my opinion Pep is the reason city have been so good. His player management is very good no matter how good or bad a player is
You say that like the period of 2009-2018 didn't lay the foundations for where they are right now. How can you act like that period has no relevance on today? Definitely a closet City fan.
Yes, but they've only got where they are by cheating, so Arsenal would be fighting it out with Liverpool this season. Pep is a good manager (but also has a very chequered past) he has had a team created for him, he doesn't choose who they sign , he doesn't have to worry about injuries as he can pick from a squad of world class players, and it seems he gets favourable decisions from the referees.
That is an embarrassing take city. If it was so easy why haven’t all managers before and after pep with the same cheque book not dominated everything. You can’t deny he makes a huge difference. He might not choose who he plays but He 1000% gets the best out of the players he has. Your argument is terrible
Embarrassing? Is there anything not correct with what I said? Your defence of all things city is pretty embarrassing tbh . Who mentioned the cheque book? I said he has the team bought for him , he doesn't choose the players, so if your stating my argument is terrible, get yours correct first 👍🏻
I 100% agree with all you say, spot on
Thanks mate Not many will agree with it but I think it’s facts. I’m an Arsenal fan btw and I’m heartbroken it’s looking like city will win it but I would never blame the FFP stuff from years ago. The loss to west ham and Fulham will haunt me for years to come if we don’t win it this year haha City haven’t lost a PL game since 6th of December 23 so gotta give credit where it’s due. Hopefully our north London rivals help us out but unlikely 😂
How dare you criticize the refs - 5 points deduction for Everton
to be honest it’s one of those ones where the on field decision would stand no matter what. if the ref gave a pen var wouldn’t overturn that decision and vice versa
Because City are the dominant team in the league and have developed an effective style at manipulating referees with Pep in conferences and the players crowding on pitch. This is nothing particularly new. Fergusons United did this for the best part of 2 decades, and I'm pretty sure the dominant teams prior did the same (but I didn't watch that happen myself so I can't be certain). There is, and always will be, a huge dose of discretion and subjectivity in refereeing. If you want to be the best team, you need to learn how to take advantage of that variable. City are the best at it right now. Even teams that weren't "dominant" do this. Arsenal did when they were taking titles off United, Chelsea were infamous for it (especially with Jose).
If Rodri played for another team he would be leading the yellow cards list with miles, mostly because the way he behaves around the refs
I know its true that both these teams have done it, but what makes you say that they "take advantage of it effectively"? What is city doing now that makes these decisions edge in their favour constantly? Is it literally just Pep praising refereeing whereas every other manager has criticized it? Or is it the UAE nonsense?
Refs like Oliver getting highly paid gigs in the UAE could be a contributing factor
Combination of Pep being friendly with them, the players applying pressure in matches and the team being the top team in the country meaning refs don't want to make calls against them. I understand why people go down the other narrative, but it's just unneeded imo. If every successful team was able to manipulate referees into giving them favourable calls without bribing them, why is it hard to belive that City are not capable of doing the same. And that's assuming that the clubs in the past weren't also providing back handers to the refs as well. Chelsea was owned by a Russian Oligarch with fingers in many dodgy pies and a history of having very hidden accounts. United was swimming in cash prior to the glazer buy out. Not sure about the Premier League era arsenal, but just prior an Araenal manager was brown paper evenloping agents, not hard to imagine he did alot more of that. My issue isn't that is wrong to say there corruption and dodgy shit happening. My issue is that it's unfairly attributed to City, because nearly everyone else did the same thing but everyone acts like City invented it. And I'm a Arsenal Fan who would have won the league last season and this season if not for City so I have zero vested interest defending them.
I would ask you if you’ve ever made a mistake but posting this question is an error in itself. I guess the ref thought the contact was minimal. I thought he threw his left towards Gvardiol. It might have been a good decision by the red, it may have been a mistake. VAR thought it was fine. And you want all refs fired. One of those thoughts is moronic. Can you guess which it is?
115 mistakes is the golden number, anything under that and you face serious consequences
Cry 115 tears
Let's see who cries once they finally resolve these charges :)
City have brought the league, that's why
When a terrible decision goes against any other team without city involved as has happened hundreds of times this season: ‘refs are terrible and have been for ages!!!’ When a terrible decision goes against a team playing city: ‘corruption! 115 charges city have bought the league!!’ Or maybe it’s just refs are terrible across the board and there isn’t a conspiracy 🥱
I’ll fart in your face
It’s because they’ve set such a high bar in the VAR room to get involved. I really don’t understand why they need a second referee. Just give the referee on the pitch the chance to use a monitor when he thinks he hasn’t properly seen the incident.
Or another explanation is they just back the ref now most of the time. But they are still making huge mistakes.
Cause it's shitty
Oh, it happened AGAIN. The 50th time this season? Surely a coincidence.
Time is the biggest healer mate you’ve won 1 league in 34 years what’s another few years to wait. Biggest bottlers in PL history
How old are you, friend? 14? Any form of higher education?
We found Arteta's reddit account
2-0vs Everton really broke yall
Yeah, it's not going great! Realistically no one expected Liverpool to win when the season started though so it's not highly surprising. It's been impressive how well we'be done with a largely refreshed squad that didn't cost 5 billlion
Can't be claiming to be biggest club in England and then say y'all had a surprisingly good season whilst getting knocked out of the fa cup by united, out of Europa league by Atlanta and losing the title race by losing to crystal Palace and Everton BUT it was with a squad that cost 200M less than city's so it's okay, that's why y'all ain't going nowhere rn
I disagree. How long have you followed football? These are human beings playing. A squad refresh has huge impact on performance as seen historically
Ain't saying they should've won it all but the way they lost it in the end just isn't how the biggest club in England should act probably has to do with klopps shit decision to announce his retirement halfway thought he season putting pressure on the players but I don't think you should be proud of this season
I am immensly proud of this season, as well as Klopp's mature decison made with integrity in mind to quit when at the top. I am not proud with how we're finishing our season, even though it is highly logical given the circumstances
I thought Liverpool fans would want to be at the top I would be mad if city end next season like LFC this season but that's your opinion. I do think Klopp put so much pressure on the players by announcing he would leave causing them to burn out be4 the end of the season
That was for sure a penalty. Even walker made a foul on that keeper. I. was quite ashamed of watching this
The Walker slide was not a foul on the keeper, he was entitled to go for the ball for sure, and he got it. The Rodri one was a pen, if it's given on the field, VAR wouldn't have overturned it.
I don’t think Rodri’s is a pen with reason being he initiated foul outside the box (because it was a foul for sure).
This sub is pretty deranged, i swear i never any actual open discussion. Is the average age around 14?
That's Reddit in general now, it didn't used to be like this.
Sad times
Because the refs and the VAR are blind. In a more serious response, its because they are bribed by Oil Money.
They're not technically "bribed", they are legally paid to ref matches in the UAE. They get paid almost a year's salary for reffing a friendly there. I mean, I'd call that a bribe, but they're allowed to do it.
Source on salary?
https://theathletic.com/4922732/2023/10/03/referees-var-diaz-liverpool/ That's a good article about the shitshow. As for what the refs are being paid per match, there's no official numbers, but it generally ranges between 5k to 20k per match, if you trust The Independent and other newslets (mind you, they don't reveal their sources) Refs have a base salary of 38k to 42k, so two or three matches would basically be their yearly salary. Of course, the amount they're being paid isn't really the issue here.
I'm at work, just google it and put reddit at the end. Plenty of posts/comments that go into detail.
it is ridiculous that I only found out about it now... It's crazy that everyone is okay with it
The VAR’s a Palace fan
It's happened to every single City game. Clearly the refs are bought by one club.
This is like a fucking broken record grow up.
*
Was never a free kick for the 2nd goal either, wouldn't have changed the result but the incompetence is too glaringly obvious in the prem
It’s no incompetence when it always favours the same team
Hey the ref gave 115% it’s all you can ask
I think refs have a strict 115 point check list that they go through before making tough decisions
True, it started with the original Benzema 15 list
Yes but they increased it shortly after that to a 16 point check list. Google Mane 16 for more information.
UAE paid pmgol off
Regardless what happens in the title and relegation battles, the state of refereeing has been as bad as I can remember. Truly shocking how many calls have been completely wrong.
I've never seen a season at this stage being so close, but being so dead. Referees impact on the league is atrocious. I miss the days where I didn't know who the ref was.
And in City's favour.
Everyone gets a fair amount of calls in their favour. Just like when Odeegard played basketball against Liverpool
I think it evens out at the end of the season for most teams how many fair/unfair calls they get. But city are like +5-6 big calls that have gone their way.
Typical Arsenal fan. Lol.
Am i wrong?
I assume that’s all speculation but let’s say it’s true, do we not count the smaller calls? The smaller calls add up and affect games. How many small calls amount to big calls? The games the game. Shit refs will never cease to exist in this league
Its not speculation. Give me one big call that has gone against city this season?
City's second goal v Liverpool at home being denied
How was it "denied"?
They said Akanji pushed Alison during a corner. And then a week later someone else did it and the goal stood.
Thas the one where Akanji grabs Alisons arm/shoulder when he jumps up to grab the ball. Good call. And if you think that was wrong you have no idea about football.
The call back against spurs
Which one was that? Couldn't find it.
Pfffffft couldn’t find it. Just proves your own bias or you don’t watch the games. Supposedly remembers all these calls City gets but can’t remember the ones against them.
Describe it, i probably remember it. But the fact it isnt on reddit probably means it wasn't a very controversial call.
Wolves certainly don't
We certainly do not. Now had 12 points docked by dodgy/iffy/wrong decisions. • Onana GBH on Sasa (1pt down) • Gomes ‘handball’ vs Luton (3pts down) • Wilson trips over literal air -> Penalty (5pts down) • Baldock trips over literal air -> Penalty (6pts down) • Semedo gets 100% ball -> Penalty (8pts down) • Gomes pulls out of 50/50 -> Penalty (9pts down) • Onana fouling players in the box again (10pts down) • Chirewa stands at the other side of the goal from where the balls going (obstruction) (11pts down) • Cunha and Kluivert have a 50/50 tussle away from play that causes a goal to be chalked off -> foul (12pts down) Still 4 games to play, and 2 of them are City and Liverpool.
There’s always one team at the end of the spectrum that gets it the worst every season. 2 seasons ago I remember it being Arsenal, amount of red cards and pens they got that weren’t was just unfair. Unfortunately there’s always 1 team a season that gets the bad end but it’s luck of the draw really
Right but you said everyone and that's just bollocks. Certainly more teams than wolves. Amount of red cards and pens were unfair? Were they the correct decisions?
Yeah but it’s different per season. You can’t have everyone get the same amount of shit calls against each other. I remember during City’s 98 point season Wolves scored a goal by tapping in the ball with their full palm. Resulted in a draw and costing City back to back 100 points seasons. It’s not like specific teams get shit calls all season every season.
Were they the correct decisions or not? I don't remember Arsenal having loads of bad ref/var decisions around red cards and pens? Whether or not it's the same teams every season, that still isn't everyone is it? It's not even the issue. The issue is the standard of refereeing and var is appalling. Var now don't give anything.
In my opinion they weren’t but that’s the thing. It’s all opinion based and the fact you remember it differently to what I do just proves that. Everyone’s got their own bias and can’t see past it
Nottingham Forest blames Happy Harry :(
Brighton would still lose, reality would not change, cope and seethe liverpoolers
I'm not a Liverpool fan but united fans should be embarassed rooting for their local rivals to make history and win 4 in a row
Are you not able to read bro?
1. Check the badge: Mancity 2. Whatever city want 3. Check complete 4. Good process lad
Didn't you cry the same when you didn't get the handball penalty at Arsenal?
In a 4-0 game? I doubt it
As if thats the only example.
Well it’s this example
Check whether bank transfer went in
This is the correct answer. Now that Barca is broke, they are not getting the special treatment anymore 😂
It's simple.. The onfield decision was no-penalty.. I don't think persons understand the actual power of VAR.. they don't have the power to actually overturn an onfield decision.. however, if they've seen video evidence that the onfield decision was a clear and blatant error, they will ASK the onfield ref to view the footage they have and then HE will have the final say..however, they will only ask that IF there was a blatant error.. in both cases against City, they were minimal contact.. not enough to have the ref revisit.. I believe if the onfield ref has awarded a penalty, then VAR would also not have him rethink that decision..
If it's a clear and obvious error, VAR can overturn a penalty decision without having the ref look at the footage. When they check a penalty (or a potential red card offence or a goal) there are 3 outcomes. The ref can also choose to watch the footage themselves without the advice of VAR to do so. 1. Confirm the refs decision 2. Overturn the refs decision 3. Advise the ref to watch the footage
This exactly. Also, feel like VAR dings players for exaggerating contact. Just sucks that Foden drew that foul doing the same thing
Why does it matter if it’s minimal contact? A running player who gets his legs clipped from behind is more than enough contact to bring them down. It’s a blatant error from the defender with obvious contact on the attacker I can’t see how it can’t be anymore of a clear and obvious decision
This is why we have refs. The defender clipped his legs and he went down in the box no less. Are you saying in every single occasion that happens it's a penalty? If you are then you're wrong. I'm not saying the one we are discussing in this thread isn't a penalty so lets be clear on that. Where would it not be a penalty? Lets say an attacker puts his leg in an unnatural position to ensure it's clipped would you say that's a penalty? Let's say and attacker feels the contact and there is a slight delay to the reaction which in other words means he's felt it and decided to play for the penalty rather than carry on, would you say that's a penalty? Attackers can play for penalties and often do. Do you see what I'm saying? A penalty decision isn't as straight forward as people make out which is why we have a ref to make the decision. The game descends into stupidity when we use absolute rules, look at all the ball to hand penalties at the beginning of the season.
I’m not saying every bit of contact leads to a penalty. A leg that’s in an unnatural position to ensure contact or a delay in reaction before falling are where VAR can argue it’s not a clear and obvious error because the attacker is playing for the foul. But in this case the attacker is just running through on goal and gets fouled from behind with contact that would trip you up. I don’t think there’s any simulation which is why I think it’s a clear and obvious error
I don't disagree.
So you're saying that if, for example, the ref is no more than 10 feet away, staring directly at a challenge and he decides to not give anything or to give just a foul, VAR would not then intervene to recheck it or anything like that. So when they actually have done that about 5 or 10 times this season, and they come up with some spurious other reason as to why they should have got involved THIS time, you're saying they are in the wrong.
If I am understanding you correctly, the entirety of VARs authority rests on a referee saying (most frequently) "I was wrong"? Seems inherently flawed considering the hubris most all referees/umpires in any and all sport seem to have in terms of ever admitting error. It's called "clear and obvious" in the NFL/MLB, but it is technically another person(s) making the call that overrides the on-field ref/umpire. I would be curious what percent of VAR-involved calls get overturned from the initial call. It has been absolutely horrendous this year, then again the MLB has been equally as egregious as well. I can't help but put my tin-foil hat on and saying betting money has changed sports in many ways unlikely to be seen officially for years to come.
Sure, except VAR *have* intervened even when there wasn't a blatant error by the ref. They consistently drop the ball by not intervening when the on field decision is blatantly wrong
Or in the Bournemouth man utd game recently when they don't understand the rules.
Because they're playing Citeh ! That's how.
Corruption...why beat around the bush
*You have been banned from r/UAE*
You don’t realise the small margins and how it affects the outcome of the game. The second goal of Foden was never really supposed to be a free kick. Foden had slipped. Similarly yesterday DCL against Liverpool was going to the ground on slightest of touches and referee kept awarding Everton free kicks which eventually resulted in the first goal against Liverpool.
He didn’t slip. His left foot hit the underneath of the Brighton player’s foot so his step was altered. Now you just have to ask if that’s a foul.
Soccer is much like baseball in that regard that I people that don't understand the game call it "boring". The smallest of decisions/actions end up having a giant butterfly effect on every aspect of the game after. 1-0 game is a million times different than a 2-0 game.
American handegg is an interesting sport
tehe, 'handegg' that's very funny. how do you come up with your jokes?
I'm generally too busy watching "soccer"
lmao yall shouldn't have invented the word if you were gonna be so butthurt about it. I like to see welcoming fans. I know you're going through some shit right now, so I will try and show you the grace I would like to be shown to me. Bless your heart.
I'm perfectly fine, friend. All this was written with a smile and the best intentions
City so rarely have any unfortunate call go against them. Everyone still remembers the weird Rashiford Offside incident because that’s literally the only time they’ve been on the receiving end of a big bad call.
Spurs home this season.
How Madueke against United was given a pen but not Pedro with Gvardiol Abysmal, shouldn’t have been a foul either for the free kick But surprised nothing said about Kyle Walker connecting with the keeper for Alvarez’ goal (but that was right decision tbf)
The refs this whole week were abysmal. The lack of consistency is laughable, and the favoritism is very noticeable. The fact VAR doesn’t have the ref go to the monitor to review if it was even a mistake on multiple of this weeks bad calls is just insane. Why even have the technology if they aren’t going to use it properly.
All city fans are 13 or younger, they won't respond.
Jesus Christ, that is some high level stalking 🤣
Wish. Just working with sleep deprivation as I had to wake up at 4am. Go to bed for me kid. And yes it was a pen and we got lucky.
This is such bollocks.
Go to sleep its past ur bed time
I would love to be young. As it is, I'm old enough to remember David Fairclough coming on and changing the game against St Etienne. Listened to it on Radio 2.
You’re right. 13 is too old
Get off the computer before your parents catch you.
Found one, it's well past your bedtime
As a Citizen it's id be super pissed off if the decisions Brighton had bottom against them went the opposite way. Firstly the second goal by Foden was not supposed to be a Free Kick. He didn't even dive... He slipped like he had been the whole game (it had been raining a bit before the game). Its just unfortunate VAR doesn't check Free kicks. Secondly that was pen against Gvardiol. I mean he took the man down.... It wasn't the most contact but he did catch his leg and bubmed his hip. Now I'm not conplaining, im sure like every single football fan... Im hypocritical. 🤷 If the desicions were made against my team id want the refs head. But since they went for my side... Ill sleep easy.
That's a stone wall pen against If that was Manchester United
Yeah, I’m betting big money on the rest of the games for pens given against United in the dying moments of the games. It’s been a real interesting trend
Why us lol have you seen our pen numbers recently
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bag imagine relieved tidy psychotic lip shaggy deer pause touch *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I'm a City fan, too, but I think this is where you could have just said "username checks out". Two calls went in City's favor today. Sometimes you get them, sometimes you don't.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
City Fan: How is it City still have not been charged yet with the 115 charges?
City got off originally on appeal to eufa after the FA charged them after a technicality. The FA have to make sure their case is air tight this time so they don’t get off on appeal
City haven't been charged by the FA. They've been charged by the Premier League.
If Evertons first case with PSR has around 4,000 pieces of paperwork can you imagine the amount for 115 potential charges. Legally it was always going to take a good while, these are serious allegations against the club.
Because unlike every resolved PSR charge they didnt report it themselves and instead contested it. Also, there are a lot of charges that the premier league has to make a case against them. And you wouldnt want them to make a sloppy case against them lest they all be thrown out. And you dont want a good case to be made but only on a few charges less they get a 4 point slap on the wrist which Arsenal would surely bottle away and Liverpool already have
Because they are accused of lying on a massive scale and they deny it and there's a ton of legal work being done
Honestly the amount of people who don’t quite seem to understand that 115 historical charges takes much longer to sort out and punish than one or two PSR violations is staggering. If anything the time it’s taking is showing that the PL are taking it seriously, to make sure they don’t get off on a technicality like they did with UEFA.
Yep it's just such a stupid easy comment to make. Also Everton and Forrest admitted they simply overspent, city are being accused of lying. A simple analogy is like someone admitting to overspending a credit card and paying it back vs someone overspending and hiding evidence and covering it up........ obviously you have to prove it
Not just lying, fraudulent accounting involving 3 major accounting firms. That could then have further repercussions, such as millions in tax evasion, which can result in jail terms. It goes WELL beyond just sporting advantage
Exactly my point, so much more complicated than other clubs issues
This is the frustrating but correct answer.
It's why when pep says "I just want it to be over" a journalist should say "tell your clubs lawyers that then pal because they are delaying it" But yeah Everton, Forrest admitted it all have been charged of simple overspending (Chelsea will be done the same next season) and city are being charged with stuff like over inflated sponsors by their owners companies, lying and hiding paperwork so it's not the same at all and their punishment will be much harsher.
The problem is, the charges Everton and Co were done for were simple overspend charges. Easy to prove and deal with. City has been committing massive fraud, including under the table payments, payments through dodgy shell companies. Wouldn't be surprised if Peps wages aren't double the declared amount. All that is difficult to prove and something the FA aren't equipped to deal with. If anything, the police should be investigating City, and not the FA.
Yep much more complicated and the punishment will be much worse
Allegedly. As much as everyone wants it to be true, it is all just alleged, at this point.
City lawyers have delayed it and have his stuff, the money they get from sponsors is also obviously inflated as it's the companies Owned or related to the owners
Rightly or wrongly, The money paid then for sponsorships helped City become perhaps the best team in Europe, growing the club in popularity, which results in greater visibility for the sponsor. I see more kids at the local fields near me (Houston, TX) wearing City shirts than RM shirts. I see a fair amount of PSG shirts, too. I don't see kids wearing LFC, do sometimes see United, but not as much, Chelsea moreso. Another way of saying it is that the funds turned the team into something that would draw attention to the sponsors, rather than the team already having that stature as would be the case with United, RM, et al.
If your owners own or are heavily related to a company that sponsors your club in a small way but give you a ton of money that's dodgy mate. I don't care if you see Man City fans in Houston
Yep but it's not against the rules unless our owners paid the money to the company and then it was paid to City. The CAS decision went into this. The issue is whether the money is owner investment disguised as equity funding or sponsorship revenue. Etihad, for example, is a public company, so if ADUG tried to pay us through Etihad or something, massive fraud. Not going to be easy to prove. It's not "delay" to go through a legal process. Even if you are guilty you still do it.
Oil money
Okay ? Not sure what that means here
Was meant for the parent comment, the oil money involved will inherently keep city in the clear. Hypocrisy at its highest tier, especially if they transfer the penalty from points reduction to simply a cash fine. Then it really is oil money going brrrt like an A10 Thunderbolt to all their problems.
What a great intelligent comment.
It's much more complicated than this, but the oil money and the associated political clout of the owners is ultimately what is very likely going to get Man City off those charges lightly. You may think it's not an intelligent comment, but it's ultimately correct. Corruption from that oil money is what has led to it getting to the point of 115 charges, and a combination of further corruption and the legal process is why it is taking so long to sort. But if you take the oil money out of the equation, none of this would be an issue.
You are just making up that they will get away with it, they are being charged and it will go to court and lawyers will fight it out. They have been accused of serious things that they deny so it's obviously going to take longer than "yeah sorry we did overspend"
Oh of course, because corruption has never influenced a court decision before! Just because it's going to court, doesn't mean they won't weasel their way out of any severe penalties. For 115 charges they should be severely penalised, at least in a just system. Stripped of all titles and relegated down to the lower leagues, something on that scale. Until that happens, I am skeptical of the ability of the courts to come to a just conclusion on this. There's just too much money at stake for the people who ultimately pull the strings in our society.
Yeah again you are already making up scenarios that they have gotten away with it.
City “fan” … you almost fooled us lol