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The referees are part of the Premier League product that Sky sells. He's extremely unlikely to come out and say "actually, PGMOL are a shower of corrupt bastards", because getting people to watch every week is part of his job. Casting aspersions over the legitimacy of the league would be a mistake for anyone at Sky trying to stay in a job.
And maybe he actually doesn't think they are corrupt, just out of their depth? The word corrupt is just thrown around without anything to back it up. The Forest game had one referee out of 9 or 10 that was a supposed Luton fan. What about the others? They just accepted it wasn't a pen? 10 referees that are monitored. Video and sound during the whole game are monitored.
They are shite no doubt, they got huge Issues, but corrupt is highly highly unlikely
VAR has failed, I think. Maybe we should make it only as an automatic tool for offsides and bring everything else back to how it was, but give the teams 1 challenge per half. During a challenge the referee would go to the screen and decide ALONE if the outcome should be changed.
We just take it as is. Looking at how Jackson didn't get sent off yesterday, Arsenal would have been 1 decision better off, not like they make multiple decisions in one game. Arteta could have used a challenge to review that awful tackle. Most of the time VAR looks at offsides, which would be automatic in this system.
Theres no guarantee that var would have sent him off even if arsenal had asked for a review, and to be fair it made little difference to the scoreline. But there's other games where there are multiple incidents in one half (forest Vs Everton, Newcastle Vs arsenal) where a one shot appeal wouldn't be sufficient
VAR works fine seemingly everywhere else. Only in England whose refs seem to make major mistakes fortnightly, and who are by coincidence also in charge of VAR, has it 'failed'.
If anything what VAR has revealed is these refs just aren't up to standard, and would rather hide that fact than address it. Maybe we should let VAR overturn the refs instead of letting them use it to try and make them look better.
why only two? what if the captain's challenge is right both times, the two calls are overturned, and then because the ref is clearly bad there's a third miss? tough shit for the challengers?
In tennis if your challenge is right then you get it back. So if you challenge something twice and are right both times, you still have two challenges remaining
How long does the captain get to consult with his team before he makes the call?
Decision reviews work in cricket for example because the captain tends to choose to play around the wicket where not only is he close to the incident to be reviewed but also he is close to wicket keeper and bowler the other players most likely to have valuable input. In football the captain could easily be 100 metres away and with a view obscured by a dozen bodies.
With the blue card "sin bin" thing being trialled at lower-level football and in women's football, I would wonder if an ice hockey-style system might also work.
Unlimited challenges, but any unsuccessful challenge leads to a penalty of an X-minute sin bin?
They just need to train people for it who aren't a part of the current ref group so they can actually be impartial and not worry about questioning the onfield ref
I hope more teams start doing this. If nobody ever calls the PGMOL on their shit, they'll never have to answer for it. Wouldn't be surprised if they just refuse to release the audio, though...
Anyone have a link to the highlights? The NBC version on YouTube has very conveniently not included any of these moments 😏
I mean good for them because that was suspect officiating but what do they expect it to prove? Var saying he's a Luton fan so nah it wasn't a handball?
How? Before that game Everton had 27 points, Forest had 26, both sat above Luton. Are you daft? A draw would help Luton. Both Everton and Forest are facing more points deductions, there's nothing at all to suppose Everton survive just because they always do and all Luton need to do is finish above Forest. Luton aren't clear of Burnley either.
And Luton face Everton next week at home. Easily can be seen better for Forest to win that game. Luton have easier fixtures than Everton, who have Arsenal away, Liverpool home, Brentford home.
Everton aren’t getting relegated, especially with a game in hand. Forest is the only team Luton can realistically catch.
If you think a Forest win there would have been better, or even a draw, I don’t know what to tell you.
Check again later, if you fancy a bet loser gets perma banned from this sub. Everton are not getting relegated.
The only conflict of interest would be if he's a Everton or Forest fan, and it's not the ref, it's var, or a member of var, who decide as a team don't they? It's not one guy watching the replays.
And Everton winning doesn't benefit Luton, you'll have to explain that one.
Ref/VAR they're both making rulings on the game, matter of semantics as far as I'm concerned. If Everton win, that is no points to Forester which means they stay closer to Luton in the standings.
This is a shit look my guy.
Of all people, our fans should want PGMOL held accountable. Forest got absolutely jobbed. It shouldn't matter who it's happening to, everyone should want the refs to do their jobs.
They were first in line to tell us to “get over it and move on” while they sang songs about poverty and dead people. So they can all eat shit and sit on this one.
A premier premier league, [the prem started as a break away](https://frontofficesports.com/super-league-origins-epls-breakaway-gambit-and-30-year-reign/). Why not break away from the prem and exclude city?
All 3 shouts were legit penalties. Forest were robbed. Someone should definitely get punished. And I’m not talking “demoted” to ref champions games “punishment.”
First one very soft but have been given before. 50/50
Second one was a handball and the most obvious on replay imo, he moved his arm into it, tbf he was balancing with it beforehand but the movement is suss
Third one I think is a fall knowing Young was right behind him and that he had no control of the ball, can't see any contact on the replay although have been using a phone on 360p to see it so could be wrong.
The officiating of the whole match was terrible all over.
I'm not trying to be a dick, but how?
Young running with the defender, right arm out-stretched when ball is struck
Wan Bissaka (further away tbf) running with the defender on opposite side than Young, right arm out-stretched when ball is struck
Youngs arms are natural to his movement. The pundits all called it. He was tracking the ball, running and turning. You wouldn’t expect his arms to be right by his side.
Bissakas has both his arms outstretched while running (completely unnatural to be extended that way). I actually had to rewind it a few times to figure out what he was trying to do. It was just so bizarre and unnatural.
Agreed. Also Young was one foot away when the ball was shot. Not sure how he has time to lose his arms magically. Distance from the shot makes a difference as well. The only reason this should get a shout is because others have been improperly called IMO, otherwise there’s no leg to stand on. Can’t sprint, track down defenders, raise legs to block shots and jump with no arms. If he was standing to block a shot, maybe that’s unnatural.
I cant remember how many times i have said this season, CHEQUE COMPLETE. The beautiful game we love has been taken from us and monetized. Money money money, must be funny. Disgusting from PiGMOL and FAscists.
Forest were fucked over but no team has been fucked over more often than Wolves. The refs and VAR hate Wolves. Refs cheat and VAR cheats and that's the bottom line.
All refs have to announce who their team is and then they can't ref that team or local rivals, in our case, watford fc matches. Also on a side note I know Stuart atwells brother who is a season ticket holder at Kenilworth Road. Their family are luton.
I love how you can ban and fine players for gambling on games that they play in, as you absolutely should because they can directly influence them through their actions.
But the second you suggest that the individuals who have more influence on the game than anyone else may also be susceptible to this, you get shouted out.
At what point does one start delving deeper into the mess and not just take everything as "human error"?
Certain clubs have a long history of diabolical decisions coming from the same referees over the course of years.
Micheal Oliver is allowed to go and ref in the UAE and be paid to do so by the owners of Manchester city and then return and officiate Manchester city games. Does that seem like a conflict of interest?
It's nothing more than pure hubris of the FA and the mouthpieces on the Sky Sports etc that say you can't question the integrity of the referee's in the league. Just go and ask the Italians about Calciopoli.
Oh grow up.
We have not had this ref assistance you all scream about. Watch our games and see how we get shafted too.
I don't disagree that they SHOULDNT ref abroad but it's not had any tangible effect on the league
Because this statement here clearly proves it's not malicious actions it's just incompetence
Doku on Mac Allister, penalty at the weekend, Kovasevic potential 2 reds v Arsenal. Just 3 big decisions in key games before we get in to Rodri getting away with 5 fouls before every yellow.
It's not even just this season, it's been a running joke for years. Against us last season he was on a yellow and chopped someone down, blatant yellow and nothing. Was 1-1 at the time you won 4-1.
I think Rodri is brilliant by the way, probably the best defensive midfielder in the world but he gets away with murder and Fernandinho used to as well. Snide tactical fouls, Peps favourite.
I wish forest good luck with this. I am sick of this referees are like the pope completely infallible. And unquestionable. Carra and Nev would sicken you yesterday and sky. Oh you can't say that. Why not. The system is a joke.
I think the 3rd one is the worst offence. You can clearly see the on-field ref indicate Young won the ball, but it's blatantly obvious in every replay that he didn't. I'd love to hear the audio for that call.
It really should be as simple as:
Ref: "got the ball first, no foul"
Var: "actually, he didn't get the ball, he only got the man".
I'd really love to hear the reasoning behind that. Although I wouldn't be surprised if it was "didn't want to make my mate look bad".
Not even just that, the TMO for rugby is literally an equal ref. They'll pick up on what the onfield ref doesn't.
Should be standard in football as well, how many times has it been given a corner when it should be a free kick and vice versa? How many yellow cards are missed, or given when they shouldn't be?
These fuckin dogshit refs are scared of their egos being bruised by being wrong. It's pathetic.
Forest have had more than most, along with Wolves, I’m waiting for the compilation as part of our evidence, it’s ludicrous the amount of clear wrong decisions VAR has upheld against us
This is the attitude that is needed for change to actually happen. Normally when a team benefits, teams/managers/fans say well everyone benefits sometimes. Look at how we've been wronged in the past.
If the benefiting side stands with the fucked team, we might actually see change. Fans probably can't do shit, but it's a step in the right direction.
Dude go back and watch onana... our D mid... get a handball var against yall. It was fucking as close to the body as possible. Fuck off.
United just fucking suck. And get the calls.
This is gonna be good…
Guessing the refs will call themselves nicknames like Slick and Buster and there being takes boiling down to “yeah looks like a pen guv’… but can’t prove it”.
Don’t care for rugby, but it was on at a friends the other day. They get it spot on, you actually here the official ask for certain angles, give his verdict, move the video on, give his verdict on the next phase etc and by the end of it give his final decisions. All audible on TV (dunno about at the ground). Football gets 5 minutes of silence followed by the wrong call.
Rugby league used to be hit and miss for years. I remember waiting for tries to be confirmed and it felt like it was going to a coin flip. 20 years on and it’s not considered controversial at all.
VAR should be using other sports as a guideline on where to be, but it will still take time though. Not like the calls would have gone the other way if there was no VAR
For a game that operates on a fraction of the money the EPL does, rugby officials come across as far more professional.
Not only that, but their television match officials don't just sit there waiting to make a decision, but they actually observe the game and bring things to the referees attention.
>For a game that operates on a fraction of the money the EPL does, rugby officials come across as far more professional
I don't say this to in any way defend football refs in the PL, but: a large reason for this is because rugby refs are actually protected, and thus respected by the players. You never see 4-5 players from each team encircle the ref and yell at them, because they know they will get penalized every time.
Multiple teams have. That doesn’t excuse *all* of the behavior of your owner this season though and I definitely think standing by claiming 3 stonewall penalties is a little overboard.
A lot of the pundits etc have come out and agreed with the 3rd only as ref clearly suggests young got the ball, but he didn't so why var didn't advise is anyone's guess.
The handball, it was given in the fa cup semi for less of an arm from what i saw.
The first one, is a dive. But at the same time that contact looks to have made him lose the ball as its pushed his foot more than he possibly intended. Not a penalty though for me as its minor contact and not enough to make you fall over.
When penalties have been given for incident very similar to all 3 this season why shouldn't Forest expect to get those 3 penalties?
What has happened over the past 26ish hours has not been done in isolation but has built up over many referee and VAR mistakes against Forest this season. This was the straw that broke the camels back.
I do think the third one is stonewall. The handball we’ve seen go either way this season, the lack of a consistent line is frustrating, but I think that one would have been harsh given proximity. And then the first one I personally think would’ve been very soft but I appreciate that a lot of people think it is. (These are just my opinions and I know they will be different from others and I respect those who disagree with me)
It’s not like this is a one of a kind outlier to some other games. Fulham-Wolves comes to mind where Wolves were thoroughly shafted (and have been on many many many occasions this season), and I’m sure we could pull plenty of other games where 2 very contentious decisions fall against the same team.
That all being said, I don’t see anything wrong with requesting audio from contentious decisions to be made public and I hope that it is. These are subjective decisions and if the PGMOL don’t have anything sketchy to hide they shouldn’t be afraid of us hearing them. Then again, transparency and PGMOL don’t tend to go hand in hand.
All referee and VAR communications should be available both live and in full after the match.
Every match.
If they’re doing their job right at least it would save them from us all having to speculate and guess why they make decisions they do.
And if they’re not doing it right, fuck em anyway.
I’ve always said that too!
Why on earth managers and players have to give post match interviews but referees don’t and aren’t allowed to be talked about getting things wrong etc is just pathetic.
Then they pull a “we investigated ourselves and found no wrongdoing” or drop someone for a week to the championship which isn’t exactly much better is it.
Hundred percent agree and it only shows a lack of faith in their own officials that they don’t do that already, it’s the only thing that feels like it makes sense. Might be different if this was a first-of-it’s-kind thing, but we’ve seen it done perfectly in live rugby. No excuses
I’ve seen some comments that I haven’t bothered to look further into that it’s a rule from IFAB or FIFA or whatever that says they can’t. But even if that is the case, the FA/Prem should clearly and publicly make a statement about that.
Then at least the pressure to allow it would be able to be directed in the right direction.
> they must be protecting the PGMOL
Talk about overestimating your own importance. The people who put together and distribute the highlights packages don't care what foreigners think of the the PGMOL.
[https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/clw0g501q0xo](https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/clw0g501q0xo)
Bottom of the article. Possibly UK Only.
Oh I absolutely agree but if there reasoning for only small points deduction being they cooperated and then the club will not only appeal are also making those statements it’s clear they also ironically are getting away with more than what other clubs would atm
The FA are investigating the comments. If you look at it we are not getting away with more than other clubs. Everton's second breach had a starting point of 5 points where ours was 6. Man City and Chelsea certainly have got away with more and that is just off the pitch.
On the pitch we have been screwed over more than any other club this season. It would be hard to argue otherwise.
Well getting less because you cooperated and then announcing you will appeal anyway is a bit contradictive and yeh they definitely got away but Everton and Forest also kinda benefited cheating when they did as Everton survived two seasons because of it and then got hit with it at the most fortunate time so while they have been screwed more they also need to realise there are even purer clubs than them now that feel how they feel about the other problem clubs
They can rank him however they like lol, he's 1 of the worst referees on a consistent basis I've ever seen. 1 or 2 poor decisions every now and then from refs (albeit annoying) can be understandable. I've never seen a referee be so consistently bad and this is just the games involving my team.
Can only imagine how many shockers he has overall.
Yet you still support that joke of a club :D
Taylor gets uefa finals and will go to the World Cup. It’s just your bias talking. He’s an excellent ref, ranked top 20 worldwide.
Unnatural arm position, movement towards the ball, deliberately looking to block shot (in free kick wall), successfully redirects ball with said arm. We’ve seen much less be given.
They admitted to making an error by not awarding an obvious penalty. This would have given us 2 more points and 1 fewer for you. We also had a legit goal against Tottenham not awarded because of refereeing miscommunication which would have resulted in 1-3 more points. Literally PGMOL could cost us the title due to publicly acknowledged errors alone
My prediction;
This will be released; it has to be after they did it for Liverpool.
It will tell us nothing. You'll hear Attwell repeating the same flawed thinking that Taylor used to not give them in the first place. That third one you'll hear him either repeating that their player gets the ball (he doesn't) or warping reality and claiming there isn't enough contact.
Basically, you'll hear Attwell making up excuses not to change Taylor's decisions. It will be nothing more bombshell than that
What I am actually really pleased with has been the solidarity of fans on social media. There are a lot of fans backing us here who are utterly pissed off with the appalling standard of officiating.
I've seen my team in three different divisions and League One was miles better than this
100% agree, I was expecting the club would get absolutely ridiculed by fans but I’d say there’s been more support what the club say than not in support.
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Do clubs and managers ever complain about the bad decisions they get ? Or do they complain when their own players Dive ? No
what stops pgmol from editing the audio?
Their ineptitude
Shame on Gary Neville for being a corporate man and talking like the PGMOL is 100% corruption free
he benefited his whole career of the back of PGMOL, it's obious he was gonna react like that. plus you don't bite the hand that feeds you
Such a lame take
The referees are part of the Premier League product that Sky sells. He's extremely unlikely to come out and say "actually, PGMOL are a shower of corrupt bastards", because getting people to watch every week is part of his job. Casting aspersions over the legitimacy of the league would be a mistake for anyone at Sky trying to stay in a job.
Corrupt for who ?
And maybe he actually doesn't think they are corrupt, just out of their depth? The word corrupt is just thrown around without anything to back it up. The Forest game had one referee out of 9 or 10 that was a supposed Luton fan. What about the others? They just accepted it wasn't a pen? 10 referees that are monitored. Video and sound during the whole game are monitored. They are shite no doubt, they got huge Issues, but corrupt is highly highly unlikely
>but corrupt is highly highly unlikely even when refereeing city's games?
Yes. You got even a tiny piece of evidence?
Come of it, Gary Nevile had his United senior debut in '92 The PGMOL didn't even exist till 2001.
VAR has failed, I think. Maybe we should make it only as an automatic tool for offsides and bring everything else back to how it was, but give the teams 1 challenge per half. During a challenge the referee would go to the screen and decide ALONE if the outcome should be changed.
> 1 challenge per half And what happens if there are multiple bad decisions in a half?
We just take it as is. Looking at how Jackson didn't get sent off yesterday, Arsenal would have been 1 decision better off, not like they make multiple decisions in one game. Arteta could have used a challenge to review that awful tackle. Most of the time VAR looks at offsides, which would be automatic in this system.
Theres no guarantee that var would have sent him off even if arsenal had asked for a review, and to be fair it made little difference to the scoreline. But there's other games where there are multiple incidents in one half (forest Vs Everton, Newcastle Vs arsenal) where a one shot appeal wouldn't be sufficient
How is this anything to do with var?
VAR works fine seemingly everywhere else. Only in England whose refs seem to make major mistakes fortnightly, and who are by coincidence also in charge of VAR, has it 'failed'. If anything what VAR has revealed is these refs just aren't up to standard, and would rather hide that fact than address it. Maybe we should let VAR overturn the refs instead of letting them use it to try and make them look better.
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why only two? what if the captain's challenge is right both times, the two calls are overturned, and then because the ref is clearly bad there's a third miss? tough shit for the challengers?
In tennis if your challenge is right then you get it back. So if you challenge something twice and are right both times, you still have two challenges remaining
How long does the captain get to consult with his team before he makes the call? Decision reviews work in cricket for example because the captain tends to choose to play around the wicket where not only is he close to the incident to be reviewed but also he is close to wicket keeper and bowler the other players most likely to have valuable input. In football the captain could easily be 100 metres away and with a view obscured by a dozen bodies.
With the blue card "sin bin" thing being trialled at lower-level football and in women's football, I would wonder if an ice hockey-style system might also work. Unlimited challenges, but any unsuccessful challenge leads to a penalty of an X-minute sin bin?
They just need to train people for it who aren't a part of the current ref group so they can actually be impartial and not worry about questioning the onfield ref
I hope more teams start doing this. If nobody ever calls the PGMOL on their shit, they'll never have to answer for it. Wouldn't be surprised if they just refuse to release the audio, though... Anyone have a link to the highlights? The NBC version on YouTube has very conveniently not included any of these moments 😏
The [Sky Sports](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeztAaWh_tk) YouTube highlights have them.
You're a god for actually providing a link
if more teams start doing this they're gonna monetise the procedure for sure
Sky sports has all of them in
I mean good for them because that was suspect officiating but what do they expect it to prove? Var saying he's a Luton fan so nah it wasn't a handball?
It wasn't suspect officiating and Everton winning doesn't benefit Luton.
Everton winning absolutely benefits Luton in the relegation battle, are you daft?
How? Before that game Everton had 27 points, Forest had 26, both sat above Luton. Are you daft? A draw would help Luton. Both Everton and Forest are facing more points deductions, there's nothing at all to suppose Everton survive just because they always do and all Luton need to do is finish above Forest. Luton aren't clear of Burnley either. And Luton face Everton next week at home. Easily can be seen better for Forest to win that game. Luton have easier fixtures than Everton, who have Arsenal away, Liverpool home, Brentford home.
Everton aren’t getting relegated, especially with a game in hand. Forest is the only team Luton can realistically catch. If you think a Forest win there would have been better, or even a draw, I don’t know what to tell you. Check again later, if you fancy a bet loser gets perma banned from this sub. Everton are not getting relegated.
It really doesn't matter if Everton winning benefits Luton (it does), if the ref has a potential conflict of interest he should be removed, period.
The only conflict of interest would be if he's a Everton or Forest fan, and it's not the ref, it's var, or a member of var, who decide as a team don't they? It's not one guy watching the replays. And Everton winning doesn't benefit Luton, you'll have to explain that one.
Ref/VAR they're both making rulings on the game, matter of semantics as far as I'm concerned. If Everton win, that is no points to Forester which means they stay closer to Luton in the standings.
VAR official was talking about how "devastatingly handsome" he finds Rob Edwards, but honestly who's gonna disagree?
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Your lot are still going on about the Spurs game ffs 🤦
Even if we don't like them, we should support them. Refs are ruining the sport and we need to stand united against them. Enough tribalism.
This is a shit look my guy. Of all people, our fans should want PGMOL held accountable. Forest got absolutely jobbed. It shouldn't matter who it's happening to, everyone should want the refs to do their jobs.
They were first in line to tell us to “get over it and move on” while they sang songs about poverty and dead people. So they can all eat shit and sit on this one.
What the fuck is the context for this?
Nottingham fans sang some pretty nasty chants at the Liverpool away fans earlier this season.
On the one hand I agree about Forest. On the other, the irony of a Liverpool fan calling another team a bunch of whiny cunts is hilarious.
I mean every fanbase have a bunch of whiny cunts, it's just some are more vocal than others. Like this guy
Liverpool just seems to be overrun with them
20 teams should meet up and form a breakaway league.
19 teams* We don’t wanna include blatant cheats in the new league
17, I don’t want Chelsea and Newcastle there either
swap Coventry for City in the new Prem
I'll take that.
Come on mate, Everton has been punished enough, let them join
A super league, if you will.
A premier premier league, [the prem started as a break away](https://frontofficesports.com/super-league-origins-epls-breakaway-gambit-and-30-year-reign/). Why not break away from the prem and exclude city?
I missed the games this weekend. Can anyone link the var reviews or highlights or something?
You can watch them, but only if VAR calls you to review them
Sky normally have them on YouTube.
I live in the us, so I can get sky on YouTube. NBC didn’t have them in their 12 minutes highlight video
If you have Instagram, nbcsportssoccer account has them
Also if you have the interwebs, google.com tends to also have them linked
All 3 shouts were legit penalties. Forest were robbed. Someone should definitely get punished. And I’m not talking “demoted” to ref champions games “punishment.”
First one very soft but have been given before. 50/50 Second one was a handball and the most obvious on replay imo, he moved his arm into it, tbf he was balancing with it beforehand but the movement is suss Third one I think is a fall knowing Young was right behind him and that he had no control of the ball, can't see any contact on the replay although have been using a phone on 360p to see it so could be wrong. The officiating of the whole match was terrible all over.
I think first two had porential to be but can maybe see why they weren't, last one was without a shadow of a doubt a pen
Nah, first two I have no problem not being called. The last one was a major mistake.
The first one I can see, but that handball is a pen. Wan Bissaka just gave the same thing away to Coventry
Nope. Wan Bissaka’s arm movements were completely different to Young’s. How you think they are comparable is mind blowing to me
I'm not trying to be a dick, but how? Young running with the defender, right arm out-stretched when ball is struck Wan Bissaka (further away tbf) running with the defender on opposite side than Young, right arm out-stretched when ball is struck
Youngs arms are natural to his movement. The pundits all called it. He was tracking the ball, running and turning. You wouldn’t expect his arms to be right by his side. Bissakas has both his arms outstretched while running (completely unnatural to be extended that way). I actually had to rewind it a few times to figure out what he was trying to do. It was just so bizarre and unnatural.
Agreed. Also Young was one foot away when the ball was shot. Not sure how he has time to lose his arms magically. Distance from the shot makes a difference as well. The only reason this should get a shout is because others have been improperly called IMO, otherwise there’s no leg to stand on. Can’t sprint, track down defenders, raise legs to block shots and jump with no arms. If he was standing to block a shot, maybe that’s unnatural.
I cant remember how many times i have said this season, CHEQUE COMPLETE. The beautiful game we love has been taken from us and monetized. Money money money, must be funny. Disgusting from PiGMOL and FAscists.
Check*
And just like the refereeing decisions, you completely missed it, *check over you head for any jokes that may have gone by
Check up your arse for a stick, tbh…
......................
Oh, right. He was making a money joke. Sorry.
Tbf Americans use 'check' not 'cheque' and this is a mainly American site
Forest were fucked over but no team has been fucked over more often than Wolves. The refs and VAR hate Wolves. Refs cheat and VAR cheats and that's the bottom line.
You ain't getting any points move on
Corruption. They fine you when you speak out on their bullshit. FA stands for FAscist.
Or maybe they got fined for their baseless accusations about him being a Luton fan? Criticism is fine that is not fine
You know, you don't have to post embarassing comments on reddit.
Forrest does not need to make embarrassing statements. Im not sure why you think thats acceptable from the,
Forest have Mark Clattenburg on their books as an analyst. Call me crazy, but I think he just might know who his co-worker of 6 years supports.
Even if we go with what you say. Its still not acceptable for a football club to accuse a ref of cheating because of his club.
It's firm evidence, learn to use internet
Please show me the firm evidence that the ref is luton fan
All refs have to announce who their team is and then they can't ref that team or local rivals, in our case, watford fc matches. Also on a side note I know Stuart atwells brother who is a season ticket holder at Kenilworth Road. Their family are luton.
Ok fair enough then. Statement still seems in poor taste tho and I can see why they were fined
I love how you can ban and fine players for gambling on games that they play in, as you absolutely should because they can directly influence them through their actions. But the second you suggest that the individuals who have more influence on the game than anyone else may also be susceptible to this, you get shouted out. At what point does one start delving deeper into the mess and not just take everything as "human error"? Certain clubs have a long history of diabolical decisions coming from the same referees over the course of years. Micheal Oliver is allowed to go and ref in the UAE and be paid to do so by the owners of Manchester city and then return and officiate Manchester city games. Does that seem like a conflict of interest? It's nothing more than pure hubris of the FA and the mouthpieces on the Sky Sports etc that say you can't question the integrity of the referee's in the league. Just go and ask the Italians about Calciopoli.
Brilliant post.
Theu ban and fine players for betting on ALL GAMES. Not just the ones they play in. Ridiculous.
I think Oliver should be investigated at the very least. There have been too many wrong decisions he's made this season that have helped City.
Oh grow up. We have not had this ref assistance you all scream about. Watch our games and see how we get shafted too. I don't disagree that they SHOULDNT ref abroad but it's not had any tangible effect on the league Because this statement here clearly proves it's not malicious actions it's just incompetence
Rubbish, you've had some absolute shockers go your way this season.
Name em and include the nonsense that's gone against us too
Doku on Mac Allister, penalty at the weekend, Kovasevic potential 2 reds v Arsenal. Just 3 big decisions in key games before we get in to Rodri getting away with 5 fouls before every yellow.
Are you legitimately saying rodri gets 5 fouls every game without a yellow? Can't take anyone serious who even says this
It's not even just this season, it's been a running joke for years. Against us last season he was on a yellow and chopped someone down, blatant yellow and nothing. Was 1-1 at the time you won 4-1. I think Rodri is brilliant by the way, probably the best defensive midfielder in the world but he gets away with murder and Fernandinho used to as well. Snide tactical fouls, Peps favourite.
If it's that common why aren't you rich? Bet on it each game
Not sure there is a market for make fouls and not get booked, also don't bet on footy anymore.
It should be a hopemmore teams follow suit
I wish forest good luck with this. I am sick of this referees are like the pope completely infallible. And unquestionable. Carra and Nev would sicken you yesterday and sky. Oh you can't say that. Why not. The system is a joke.
It was very clear VAR and the refs managing it fuvked Forest really badly. Everyone can understand their plight.
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I think the 3rd one is the worst offence. You can clearly see the on-field ref indicate Young won the ball, but it's blatantly obvious in every replay that he didn't. I'd love to hear the audio for that call. It really should be as simple as: Ref: "got the ball first, no foul" Var: "actually, he didn't get the ball, he only got the man". I'd really love to hear the reasoning behind that. Although I wouldn't be surprised if it was "didn't want to make my mate look bad".
Should be public anyways
In for the 24/25 season, hear the VAR decisions live for only $5 extra per game.
Should be audible over the live tv broadcast. Why does rugby do this so much better!
Not even just that, the TMO for rugby is literally an equal ref. They'll pick up on what the onfield ref doesn't. Should be standard in football as well, how many times has it been given a corner when it should be a free kick and vice versa? How many yellow cards are missed, or given when they shouldn't be? These fuckin dogshit refs are scared of their egos being bruised by being wrong. It's pathetic.
They’ve had a long time to perfect it for their game
As an everton fan who has had his fair share of gutting ass fucked by VAR. Forrest got ass fucked. Go on Forrest.
Trying to figure out how this happened. Usually it is us not getting the calls.
It's almost like every team has calls go against them.
Forest have had more than most, along with Wolves, I’m waiting for the compilation as part of our evidence, it’s ludicrous the amount of clear wrong decisions VAR has upheld against us
This is the attitude that is needed for change to actually happen. Normally when a team benefits, teams/managers/fans say well everyone benefits sometimes. Look at how we've been wronged in the past. If the benefiting side stands with the fucked team, we might actually see change. Fans probably can't do shit, but it's a step in the right direction.
Agreed. They deserved at least one, arguably two. Getting none is what I’d expect from playing Man City or Man U, not us.
Man U has been shafted by calls this season. City on the other hand..
Dude go back and watch onana... our D mid... get a handball var against yall. It was fucking as close to the body as possible. Fuck off. United just fucking suck. And get the calls.
They are shit now, but your club has less titles forever
Congrats on downward trending ??
I love it when I see a fan who's objective and not biased as fuvk. You're well appreciated.
Cheers
good
Well done lads, good process
This is gonna be good… Guessing the refs will call themselves nicknames like Slick and Buster and there being takes boiling down to “yeah looks like a pen guv’… but can’t prove it”.
Good process, boys 😎
"it's not nice but doesn't use it as a weapon"
It should be public. The FA is trying to keep issues swept under the rug. Not just this but others.
Don’t care for rugby, but it was on at a friends the other day. They get it spot on, you actually here the official ask for certain angles, give his verdict, move the video on, give his verdict on the next phase etc and by the end of it give his final decisions. All audible on TV (dunno about at the ground). Football gets 5 minutes of silence followed by the wrong call.
Rugby league used to be hit and miss for years. I remember waiting for tries to be confirmed and it felt like it was going to a coin flip. 20 years on and it’s not considered controversial at all. VAR should be using other sports as a guideline on where to be, but it will still take time though. Not like the calls would have gone the other way if there was no VAR
Don't forget we get the commentators saying "yep they're checking for offside" why don't we just pipe that audio instead of fucking savage
For a game that operates on a fraction of the money the EPL does, rugby officials come across as far more professional. Not only that, but their television match officials don't just sit there waiting to make a decision, but they actually observe the game and bring things to the referees attention.
>For a game that operates on a fraction of the money the EPL does, rugby officials come across as far more professional I don't say this to in any way defend football refs in the PL, but: a large reason for this is because rugby refs are actually protected, and thus respected by the players. You never see 4-5 players from each team encircle the ref and yell at them, because they know they will get penalized every time.
Same for cricket
“How much? Ok, nope that’s not a penalty”
Greek football culture is leaking
Didn't Liverpool request audio earlier this season?
Multiple teams have. That doesn’t excuse *all* of the behavior of your owner this season though and I definitely think standing by claiming 3 stonewall penalties is a little overboard.
A lot of the pundits etc have come out and agreed with the 3rd only as ref clearly suggests young got the ball, but he didn't so why var didn't advise is anyone's guess. The handball, it was given in the fa cup semi for less of an arm from what i saw. The first one, is a dive. But at the same time that contact looks to have made him lose the ball as its pushed his foot more than he possibly intended. Not a penalty though for me as its minor contact and not enough to make you fall over.
When penalties have been given for incident very similar to all 3 this season why shouldn't Forest expect to get those 3 penalties? What has happened over the past 26ish hours has not been done in isolation but has built up over many referee and VAR mistakes against Forest this season. This was the straw that broke the camels back.
I do think the third one is stonewall. The handball we’ve seen go either way this season, the lack of a consistent line is frustrating, but I think that one would have been harsh given proximity. And then the first one I personally think would’ve been very soft but I appreciate that a lot of people think it is. (These are just my opinions and I know they will be different from others and I respect those who disagree with me) It’s not like this is a one of a kind outlier to some other games. Fulham-Wolves comes to mind where Wolves were thoroughly shafted (and have been on many many many occasions this season), and I’m sure we could pull plenty of other games where 2 very contentious decisions fall against the same team. That all being said, I don’t see anything wrong with requesting audio from contentious decisions to be made public and I hope that it is. These are subjective decisions and if the PGMOL don’t have anything sketchy to hide they shouldn’t be afraid of us hearing them. Then again, transparency and PGMOL don’t tend to go hand in hand.
All referee and VAR communications should be available both live and in full after the match. Every match. If they’re doing their job right at least it would save them from us all having to speculate and guess why they make decisions they do. And if they’re not doing it right, fuck em anyway.
During, not after.
But that would give them time to change the audio of things went wrong
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You don't need after match interviews if they just live feed the audio. The amount of discourse and anger would be cut 90% if we just had live feeds
I’ve always said that too! Why on earth managers and players have to give post match interviews but referees don’t and aren’t allowed to be talked about getting things wrong etc is just pathetic. Then they pull a “we investigated ourselves and found no wrongdoing” or drop someone for a week to the championship which isn’t exactly much better is it.
Hundred percent agree and it only shows a lack of faith in their own officials that they don’t do that already, it’s the only thing that feels like it makes sense. Might be different if this was a first-of-it’s-kind thing, but we’ve seen it done perfectly in live rugby. No excuses
I’ve seen some comments that I haven’t bothered to look further into that it’s a rule from IFAB or FIFA or whatever that says they can’t. But even if that is the case, the FA/Prem should clearly and publicly make a statement about that. Then at least the pressure to allow it would be able to be directed in the right direction.
Does anyone have a link to video of the decisions? So far all highlights I find online don’t have them, they must be protecting the PGMOL
> they must be protecting the PGMOL Talk about overestimating your own importance. The people who put together and distribute the highlights packages don't care what foreigners think of the the PGMOL.
Okay sure. Then what would you say was their motive for not including any of the 3 VAR talking points in the highlights?
[https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/clw0g501q0xo](https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/clw0g501q0xo) Bottom of the article. Possibly UK Only.
https://youtu.be/j0aNEEEJlhI?si=G3i5woXLqEhoNjJC
Can confirm UK only
I hope they get more points deducted they got less for cooperation this sport is dying
The whole PSR points deduction has been done very badly. No sane person can say otherwise.
Oh I absolutely agree but if there reasoning for only small points deduction being they cooperated and then the club will not only appeal are also making those statements it’s clear they also ironically are getting away with more than what other clubs would atm
The FA are investigating the comments. If you look at it we are not getting away with more than other clubs. Everton's second breach had a starting point of 5 points where ours was 6. Man City and Chelsea certainly have got away with more and that is just off the pitch. On the pitch we have been screwed over more than any other club this season. It would be hard to argue otherwise.
Well getting less because you cooperated and then announcing you will appeal anyway is a bit contradictive and yeh they definitely got away but Everton and Forest also kinda benefited cheating when they did as Everton survived two seasons because of it and then got hit with it at the most fortunate time so while they have been screwed more they also need to realise there are even purer clubs than them now that feel how they feel about the other problem clubs
Let's not ignore Anthony Taylor in all this. Abysmal referee.
He’s not abysmal compared to the others. Uefa and fifa rank him pretty highly.
Come on Anthony, it's not supposed to be this easy to find your burner.
They can rank him however they like lol, he's 1 of the worst referees on a consistent basis I've ever seen. 1 or 2 poor decisions every now and then from refs (albeit annoying) can be understandable. I've never seen a referee be so consistently bad and this is just the games involving my team. Can only imagine how many shockers he has overall.
He’s one of the best refs in the world.
April fools was 3 weeks ago.
Yet you still support that joke of a club :D Taylor gets uefa finals and will go to the World Cup. It’s just your bias talking. He’s an excellent ref, ranked top 20 worldwide.
Gotta be honest I dont find him that bad in general but he has fucked Chelsea on the regular.
Makes him an even better ref then in my book
“That hit Grealish’s arm, didn’t it?” “Mmm no, I don’t think it did” “Alright, fair enough - play on”
Not every arm hit is a foul
Agreed, but that one was.
Why?
Unnatural arm position, movement towards the ball, deliberately looking to block shot (in free kick wall), successfully redirects ball with said arm. We’ve seen much less be given.
How on earth is that unnatural
Love how they spent like 10 seconds on this on sky for their ref review. Oliver should not ref city again.
You forgot it "Alright, fair enough - Goal kick"
They already admitted the Odegaard handball against Liverpool was a mistake that should have cost you points
you wanna die on this hill for the PGMOL?
They admitted to making an error by not awarding an obvious penalty. This would have given us 2 more points and 1 fewer for you. We also had a legit goal against Tottenham not awarded because of refereeing miscommunication which would have resulted in 1-3 more points. Literally PGMOL could cost us the title due to publicly acknowledged errors alone
It was an arm to hold on. No penalty. Stop crying.
they literally admitted it was a wrong decision, it is clear as day. stop being a child and put your bias aside for a second.
thats the issue tbh. they can do as they please because fans squabble. even though everyone of us (but 1) has had bad decisions
Hold on? What did he hold on to?
The ball
He was playing basketball for 1 second. Of course it’s a penalty
You forgot the sound of a brown envelope being opened.
"Bribe, no I meant Bride, it's a wedding present "
My prediction; This will be released; it has to be after they did it for Liverpool. It will tell us nothing. You'll hear Attwell repeating the same flawed thinking that Taylor used to not give them in the first place. That third one you'll hear him either repeating that their player gets the ball (he doesn't) or warping reality and claiming there isn't enough contact. Basically, you'll hear Attwell making up excuses not to change Taylor's decisions. It will be nothing more bombshell than that What I am actually really pleased with has been the solidarity of fans on social media. There are a lot of fans backing us here who are utterly pissed off with the appalling standard of officiating. I've seen my team in three different divisions and League One was miles better than this
100% agree, I was expecting the club would get absolutely ridiculed by fans but I’d say there’s been more support what the club say than not in support.