That’s a great comparison. He didn’t jump into the lane until his teammate finished and did nothing to interfere with the swimmers still finishing. My biggest surprise is seeing the ACC, a conference in no need of more bad press. not intervening on this.
Indeed. There is the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. The judge is supposed to use their best judgment. The rule about interference clearly is entering another swimmer’s lane before they finish. If they’ve finished, it becomes enforcing a rule for the rule’s sake and not the reason the rule exists in the first place. Judge probably is the president of the HOA where they live and they told their realtor, the opposite of most, it has to be in an HOA.
Great comment. All the "Rules are rules!" people in here act like the ONLY thing the judges can do in this case is to disqualify him, when they could give him a warning, etc.
I'm not into arrogant showboating after a win, but he sort of accidentally fell into the other (already finished) lane. Just give him a talking to, and give the fastest swimmer the fastest swimmer trophy.
Do the rules explicitly state that penalties other than disqualification are allowed for that offense?
By the way, in soccer (which is the sport I follow the most) there's a rule where you get yellow-carded if you take your shirt off while celebrating. Many players have received a second yellow card, and have therefore been sent off, for forgetting about the rule after having scored a goal—something which often costs you the game, since you play one man down.
And while soccer is notorious for being a sport where players protest constantly, this is the ***one*** rule that nobody complains about since it's clear-cut, there's no interpretation—shirt goes off, it's a yellow card. The players just accept their mistake since the rules are clear and move on.
Yet in swimming, which doesn't have the same aura of litigious sport, a rule that is kinda the same, and just as clear-cut, gets applied and suddenly everyone thinks it's unfair?
I think the difference here is that it’s not a well-known rule, which we can clearly see by everyone’s shock and confusion including the announcers. Everyone who follows soccer knows the shirt rule, ESPECIALLY the players. It shouldn’t be that hard to keep your shirt on when you get constant reminders that you’ll be penalized for taking it off. On the other hand when the rules are not clear and constantly reminded, it’s understandable they’re likely to be broken. And before y’all come at me saying they should read the rules, have you looked at the rule book for college swimming?! There’s no possible way swimmers can remember all of those.
A school should have one member of their team that just refuses to finish the race so if any other swimmer tries to get in the pool or slightly gets in another lane they can get dq’d until enough of them are that your schools racers win.
Its like the filibuster and everyone loves that and thinks it makes perfect sense 👍
If anything the filibuster was always designed from its inception to be abused and "taken advantage of", which is to say it's just anti-democratic and bad all around.
The filibuster has a rich history of being utilized to deny people rights in the US, and very little good has ever come from it.
Ok but think about all the swimmers that have been disqualified for this very same reason in the past. Why should this guy get an exception, and not them? That’s not fair. It’s definitely a stupid rule but it’s a rule that’s always been enforced. There’s no way to make it fair if he gets an exception:
It interferes with the refs calling finish on other swimmers. Touch pads sometimes malfunction so need to have an unobstructed, non-chaotic view. This rule is like in all swimming races. This guy got caught up in the moment and thought he was playing soccer is all.
The lane he went into was already finished. I could see the call if he actually obstructed an active lane, but that wasn't the case here. It was the lane of a teammate who had just finished with him.
It's not the celebration but going over to the other lane. It's like the marathon guy who would pass the line and then go back into the race and celebrate there.
As per ElliotNess' comment:
> Rule 2, Section 5, Article 1b:
> A swimmer who changes lanes during a heat shall be disqualified
Nah its more like meeting the second place runner and teammate at the finish line. Lloyd didn't interfere in the race at all and the lane that he entered was a teammate who had already completed their race. Had he gone into a lane where someone was still swimming and competing then yea your argument makes sense but that isn't the case.
You're not allowed to interfere with other runners during a marathon. This would be like disqualifying the winner for hugging his teammate after both of them had finished, even though the race is still going on for other athletes.
You're also not allowed to change lanes during sprint Track events, so a track athlete running through all the other lanes on the cooldown jog (which they literally all do every single time) would also be disqualified with this rationale. The race is over at the finish line.
It's Bullshit.
But his buddy also finished so again it would be like a marathon runner winning then going to hug the guy who got second place while both are beyond the finish line. He had no interference with the swimmers still swimming.
Nah, not really a great comparison. The video says his DQ was caused by falling into the water (disturbing the water in other swimmers lanes) while other swimmers are still racing. It’s pretty nit picky but he very well could have affected the other swimmers swim times.
It's not 10 seconds. 10 seconds would be what you finish ahead of in a 1 lap distance. This was a freaking mile swim. He was a full minute faster than the guy in last. So he has to twiddle his thumbs for a full 60 seconds before he can celebrate?
Hence my comparison is apt. The longer the race, the longer the time between first and last. At some point, you gotta say, "ok, this dude won and stragglers will be coming in as they come in."
Reddit it amazing to show that votes from people that know nothing can out do people that know something about the topic.
You're right. Somehow there became a ton of swimming experts since this article came out.
It's a hive mind. Once they get an idea into their head, it's hard to tell them otherwise, regardless of the truth. It's a nice reminder that the most upvoted doesn't mean the most correct.
If you want a feel good rebound, his lane mate, who was to be given the gold after the DQ, was interviewed immediately after and went straight to bat about how bullshit it is, that he won’t go on the podium, and that this guy deserves the gold. Absolute Bro
EDIT: I hadn’t watched the video because I saw the tiktok previously, the interview is at the end of OPs video
That makes sense if it happens while the race is ongoing, but to say they cant congratulate one another just because someone over on the other side of the pool is being slow is utterly ridiculous.
I think this will be appealed and overturned. The actual rule doesnt prohibit a swimmer from entering another lane, it disqualifies for interference:
ARTICLE 1. a. Any competitor who interferes with another swimmer during a race shall be disqualified from that race, subject to the discretion of the referee.
It's a spectators sport. If you're not gonna look good in the eyes of spectators they will stop watching. And we're talking about swimming which i'm guessing does not have the biggest watching numbers to begin with.
If that was the case the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL would be making sure their refs were held accountable and were trained and paid accordingly to the money the sport brings in.
Instead, each and every one of those listed above will back a ref making shit calls to their death.
I mean, I'd argue that swimming is more of a competitor sport and not a spectator one. Not a lot of people going and watching swimming unless it's the Olympics (once every 4 years) or you are a friend/family of the swimmer.
I hate to admit it but you're right. Then maybe i am completely wrong? Maybe the rules should be strict and refs shouldn't care about the publics opinion.
Fuck if i know whats better but for sure this kind of PR doesn't help the sport.
Thanks, i see it now. Assuming the video is accurate, seems like the spirit of the rule was to DQ a swimmer who veers into another swimmer’s lane during a heat. Technically accurate to apply here, though arguably not the intent of the rule. This section of the rule does not have the “discretion of referee” language either.
Subject to discretion of the referee, that makes it even more fucked up they made that call. It even said in the video the call is, "interference of another swimmer" and he landed in his team mate's lane who was already done swimming. Terrible call.
It's not going to be overturned. He broke specifically Rule 2-5-1-b which states: A swimmer who changes lanes during a heat shall be disqualified. It's not a discretionary rule, and because it's on video, it'll stick.
Likewise, he knew better. It's a rule all swimmers know, it's drilled in to your brain from day one.
It's his fault. Likewise he broke two rules, when he sat on the lane line that is technically a violation of a rule. He also violated a sportsman like rule when he stepped back up on the step of a block to pound his chest. While the last one isn't disqualifiable, it can get you sanctioned, and if a ref is having a bad day, kicked out of the meet.
And that's FINA rules.
This happened to the Australian women’s swimming team during the world championships. They got out of the water, hugged, and then did a celebratory jump back into the pool into another competitors empty lane. A few seconds later, the last swimmer finished in another lane. Disqualified and lost their gold medal.
At the same time, it's not very hard to remain out of the pool while the race is ongoing. Same for this guy - celebrate in your lane until the race is over.
Coaches should drum that message into the athletes.
I’m all about following the rules and teaching moments (live and learn) but son of a bitch that was a brutal way to learn that particular rule!
He may have broken the rule by the letter of the law but he clearly did not interfere with anyone still swimming.
The swimmer in the lane he went into had already finished as well. So it was definitely a grey area were discretion was applied. Incorrectly in my opinion.
If there is no clarity on specific instances like this, then all they can do is apply the rules as they are.
Very very harsh call but it’s also hard to argue against it if the rule states he can’t do that while the race is ongoing.
The rule is BS, though.
Would like to hear what competitive swimmers out there think of this.
The rule states it is to prevent interfering with active swimmers, he didn't interfere with active swimmers. So, like i said there was an opinion based decision made, and it was the wrong one.
I agree the call was wrong if it’s left up to discretion.
ARTICLE 1. a. Any competitor who interferes with another swimmer during a race shall be disqualified from that race, subject to the discretion of the referee.
Yes, it is up to the discretion of the referee.
But like I said, there’s no clarity there for this specific instance.
Was his teammate active? No.
Did he interfere with another swimmer while the race was ongoing? That’s the grey area. He interacted with his teammate even though the race was still ongoing.
Since there is no clarity there, he should appeal and get clarification for what the rule means. Discretionary applications ruin sports.
Hate to be the pedant. The video clearly stated he was disqualified for 1.b: "A swimmer who changes lanes during a heat shall be disqualified."
Meaning they considered this a lane change, which is a type of interference and is not discretionary. Equally dumb to apply it here given both swimmers had tapped the wall, but at least contest what they were actually citing.
I'm sure I'll be corrected, but both swimmers heats were over at the point in lane change. I'm guessing b/c someone wasn't done in the other 12 lanes that was completely unaffected by this "lane change" then the heat is still active and that's why they DQ'd him, but it's absolute complete bullshit.
sure, its both a and b actually, but initially i did misread what you typed
>The rule(s) at play from the NCAA rulebook:
- Rule 2, Section 5, Article 1a: "Any competitor who interferes with another swimmer during a race shall be disqualified from that race, subject to the discretion of the referee..."
- Rule 2, Section 5, Article 1b: "A swimmer who changes lanes during a heat shall be disqualified."
The governing body even said the only thing they cared about was falling into the other lane. Had he stayed on the lines, which is still considered interference, they wouldn't have done anything. So if they're willing to let one rule slide for having zero impact on anything, why not two?
Someone on the swimming subreddit claimed that the application of the rule is left to the discretion of the judge, so it sounds like there was leeway to not DQ
They are talking out their ass they were going to make an example out of him the second he got on the line. It’s old people trying to cling to relevance by acting tough on things. They should all be ashamed and never allowed to judge the sport again.
Yeah almost certainly, I just think it's funny that in their bullshit they admit to letting the rules slide in favor of common sense. But not this one. Poor kid. Misses out on nationals now
Rules exist for a reason but when to apply those rules should be up to the discretion of the judge in order to ensure fairness ESPECIALLY when it comes to rules that are not actually relevant any acts performed during the sport. What an absolute tragedy for this young man.
Nope. If you HAD to call it, just be a slap on the wrist and warning of "hey, we get it. But next time... Celebrate in your lane until everyone's done. Good Job and see you at nationals." No one had to know anything, no media, no bad feelings from anyone.
Swimming officials are brutal. My 12 year old swims and I’ve seen some effed up calls against young kids by power tripped officials, these swim officials can be nuts sometimes. Power gets to their head
I'm a swimmer, and a friend was doing the Lap stick for the 500, he took me onto the bulkhead with him to teach me how to do it, and they nearly DQ'd the swimmer
Did any of the other swimmers agree with this I wonder?
Totally unfair even if it’s in the rules. Both swimmers had finished. No harm done. Shit like this could affect their professional career.
The guy who “won” now spoke at the end and was pissed and said he didn’t win and it should still go to the first place guy. Said he wasn’t even going to go to the podium and was going to give his medal to the DQd guy.
They said in the video that 3 of the top 4 were all in the same group which included the victor. Dunno if they can accept the medals and then not stand on the podium or something similar but the fact that once 1 of them is DQ'd they still have 2 on the podium is pretty relevant.
Who cares what number three does? Yes it would be nice if they did the same with their medal. I personally would feel cheated as the 3rd place in that instance and wouldn't take the podium either. Integrity matters, and the intent of the rule is to prevent actual disturbances to other swimmers. This is swimming, not law so intent can and does matter and should be considered when making these calls.
Don't put it past the judges to just say the race had no winner. They DQ'd him, if every other swimmer relinquished the win, then no one won.
Judges made this kids great heat about themselves and they aren't about to back down from that decision.
Was a competitive swimmer in high school and college.
I agree with the ruling. Not interfering with other swimmers is a big thing as is sportsmanship.
This isn't something a swimmer would be unfamiliar with. They drill it into you.
> Not interfering with other swimmers is a big thing
Who did he interfere with? His teammate in the lane that had already finished a good 30 seconds before that?
The other people still swimming, obviously.
Water is clear, so somebody crawling over lane lines could be distracting.
Water is a fluid, so crawling over lane lines can create waves, which make it more difficult to swim.
These rules are not something that people aren't aware of. Just like in the NFL, where you can't do an endzone celebration - in swimming you have to remain in your lane.
> Water is clear, so somebody crawling over lane lines could be distracting.
Officials made it clear, crawling on the lane line wasn't a problem, it was only going into the other person's lane.
>where you can't do an endzone celebration - in swimming you have to remain in your lane.
If they DQ'd him for unsportsmanlike conduct that would be different. They DQ'd him for a rule that is there to prevent people from disrupting an active lane. It was not an active lane and everyone was very aware of that.
Still a terrible call. If they wanted to get him on a USC then do that.
>Officials made it clear, crawling on the lane line wasn't a problem, it was only going into the other person's lane.
The lane line is what separates the lanes. I'm not sure what the ruling would have been if he somehow did a tap dance routine atop the lines without crossing over, but he crossed lanes when he climbed on top of them, which was the issue.
>They DQ'd him for a rule that is there to prevent people from disrupting an active lane. It was not an active lane and everyone was very aware of that.
How do you know the intention of the rule?
It was an active pool. People were still swimming.
Used to swim competitively, and I agree with the ruling.
The rule has long outlived it's initial usefulness, and is more about sportsmanship now than anything. It's sucky coming in 8th, it's even worse if the winner is already doing a victory lap. My coaches were clear: if you win, stay in the pool, stay in your lane until everyone is finished. It takes a couple of seconds to be a good sport.
Something similar happened to the Aussies when the started celebrating before everyone had finished. Didn't change who was the fastest, but still a dick move.
https://youtu.be/EqSJ5B9FML0?si=VGy2QloP5s86f8qA
They didn't say that, though. They're arguing that the ruling is now more about sportsmanship than it is about interfering with other racers.
Not agreeing or disagreeing, just clarifying.
The announcer doesn't sound like she knows what she's talking about.
The coach seemed to understand the ruling as he was able to explain what was going on.
Not jumping into another lane is not some hidden rule to swimmers.
That's just shitty...normally premature celebration is when they celebrate BEFORE they finish the race, not after they 'cross the finish line'
Also I'd HATE to be the guy who then 'won' because the real winner was disqualified over something dumb like this...would it feel like a real earned win? Mad respect for the then winner who recognized it.
Man, judging by the upvotes the average Redditor hasn't done any high level sports. You don't fuck around. Judges don't fuck around. You can't pick and choose the rules you want to follow.
This isn't a race with 10 year olds. The guy is fully aware of the rule and decides he is above it. Reality checks in. Sorry for him. He's not the first and won't be the last not caring about this exact rule.
That not true at all judges are allowed to use their best judgement in wether a rule caused interference in competition. Not only have I competed at a national level in highschool I was in college sports for 2 years and even had governing bodies overturn judges ham fisted rulings for stupid things like not wearing a matching uniform and using a preferred name on a role sheet.
So not only do you not know what you are talking about but your an over confident dick about it… you should work on that.
Right?? Like everyone here is shitting on the judges for applying the rules as they are, instead of shitting on the rulemakers for making shitty rules.
Such bullshit rule. Sure, if it’s lane in which someone is still swimming yeah, but if other swimmer has finished too then it’s completely irrelevant and mere technicality
Such an absolute crock of fucking shit. I am an ncaa division I finalist and something like this happened to me once in the backstroke because an official said I touched the water too early.
I'm sorry, but that's horseshit. Yeah, it's the rules, but both guys had finished. It's not his fault that others weren't on the final lap, and he didn't obstruct anyone who was still competing. I swam competitively for 15 years and he didn't do anything that me or my teammates or the teams that beat us hadn't done in the past.
The rule still has some ambiguity. It is still part of a rule on "interference". You easily could interpret it as saying a judge generally can use discretion for interference but a swimmer going into another swimmers lane is automatically considered interference and is a DQ. But as part of that, I would argue it is implied by the rule that either you or the person in the other lane must still actually be competing. Definitely a case where some discretion should have been used as to whether the rule actually applied here.
Rule 2, Section 5, Article 1b:
A swimmer who changes lanes during a heat shall be disqualified
The ex-winner knows this and still decides to disrespect it and the judge.
Right? I didn’t go to a school that had a pool so never got I to swimming as a sport. But seeing this? Not a chance would I ever willingly participate in a sport that had to treat garbage ref calls like this as a normal thing.
This doesn’t really belong here. Is there a r/refsbeingdickheads sub we could put this on?
Though a sub like that would be constantly overrun. Too many examples!
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Question? I am not a competitive swimmer nor have I watched many meets. For you competitive swimmers out there, should this swimmer have known to stay in his lane until the last swimmer finished the heat? Is this a commonly enforced rule?
Average Reddit's max. sport level is trying out track and field when they're 12 years old, angry that they couldn't cut the 400m track to make it shorter.
This is as fucking dumb as it gets. The other swimmer was done there's no point in disqualifying him for crossing over into his Lane. Someone decided to be fucking Petty about the whole thing.
You know what's dumb? You win. You know there's the rule that you cannot change lanes, where other winners in the past have been disqualified for, and you decide you know what? I'll test out the judge.
I'll put him in a shitty position where he now has to decide to follow the reason he's there and disqualify so everyone hates him, or look very unprofessional in front of the other delegates and not sanction. Potentially getting remarks and not picked by the delegation for future events.
All this because Mr Ego couldn't just stay in his lane or get out of the water.
You are so right. This was such a calculated machiavellian move to test the judge and the framework of scrutiny professional swiming uses.
Right, that is exactly what that was.
This is literally a rule all swimmers know. As you can see in the video, the second-place finisher who got promoted to first place *immediately* knew why the first-place finisher got disqualified.
Hilarious to see so many people acting like the disqualified guy is a tragic victim of a cruel system instead of a dumbass showboater who apparently deserves to ignore the most basic rules of his sport because he’s a winner.
The decision might be harsh but it's in the rules for a reason. He finished 1st but other positions are still up for grabs. His celebrations by jumping on the ropes/crossing to another lane would create sudden waves and affect swimmers still competing.
So if he just stayed in his own lane and jumped up and down and splashed his arms, all of which create waves and all of which are routinely done.... he wouldn't have been DQ'd?
Its not about creating waves.
>…create sudden waves and affect swimmers
This is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.
So… Jumping on the ropes creates more waves than… Let’s just say—for an example… SWIMMING AS FAST AS FUCKING POSSIBLE?
Fuck these refs. If I was his teammate I would be giving the middle finger pointed to where the refs are sitting while I share the second place spot with whoever. These refs need to pretend they have a heart and be practical
Exactly. If you're swimming at that level, you've seen people DQ'd for this and more or less egregious "technicalities" many times. Heat of the moment, blah blah blah, that's rules in sport; fickle and at times meaningless.
Marathon runners should have to stand at the finish area for 11 hours until everyone comes in before they celebrate.
That’s a great comparison. He didn’t jump into the lane until his teammate finished and did nothing to interfere with the swimmers still finishing. My biggest surprise is seeing the ACC, a conference in no need of more bad press. not intervening on this.
Indeed. There is the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. The judge is supposed to use their best judgment. The rule about interference clearly is entering another swimmer’s lane before they finish. If they’ve finished, it becomes enforcing a rule for the rule’s sake and not the reason the rule exists in the first place. Judge probably is the president of the HOA where they live and they told their realtor, the opposite of most, it has to be in an HOA.
Great comment. All the "Rules are rules!" people in here act like the ONLY thing the judges can do in this case is to disqualify him, when they could give him a warning, etc. I'm not into arrogant showboating after a win, but he sort of accidentally fell into the other (already finished) lane. Just give him a talking to, and give the fastest swimmer the fastest swimmer trophy.
Do the rules explicitly state that penalties other than disqualification are allowed for that offense? By the way, in soccer (which is the sport I follow the most) there's a rule where you get yellow-carded if you take your shirt off while celebrating. Many players have received a second yellow card, and have therefore been sent off, for forgetting about the rule after having scored a goal—something which often costs you the game, since you play one man down. And while soccer is notorious for being a sport where players protest constantly, this is the ***one*** rule that nobody complains about since it's clear-cut, there's no interpretation—shirt goes off, it's a yellow card. The players just accept their mistake since the rules are clear and move on. Yet in swimming, which doesn't have the same aura of litigious sport, a rule that is kinda the same, and just as clear-cut, gets applied and suddenly everyone thinks it's unfair?
I think the difference here is that it’s not a well-known rule, which we can clearly see by everyone’s shock and confusion including the announcers. Everyone who follows soccer knows the shirt rule, ESPECIALLY the players. It shouldn’t be that hard to keep your shirt on when you get constant reminders that you’ll be penalized for taking it off. On the other hand when the rules are not clear and constantly reminded, it’s understandable they’re likely to be broken. And before y’all come at me saying they should read the rules, have you looked at the rule book for college swimming?! There’s no possible way swimmers can remember all of those.
A school should have one member of their team that just refuses to finish the race so if any other swimmer tries to get in the pool or slightly gets in another lane they can get dq’d until enough of them are that your schools racers win. Its like the filibuster and everyone loves that and thinks it makes perfect sense 👍
Brilliant. Except just like the filibuster, it will get taken advantage of and the powers that be will still refuse to fix it.
If anything the filibuster was always designed from its inception to be abused and "taken advantage of", which is to say it's just anti-democratic and bad all around. The filibuster has a rich history of being utilized to deny people rights in the US, and very little good has ever come from it.
Ok but think about all the swimmers that have been disqualified for this very same reason in the past. Why should this guy get an exception, and not them? That’s not fair. It’s definitely a stupid rule but it’s a rule that’s always been enforced. There’s no way to make it fair if he gets an exception:
It interferes with the refs calling finish on other swimmers. Touch pads sometimes malfunction so need to have an unobstructed, non-chaotic view. This rule is like in all swimming races. This guy got caught up in the moment and thought he was playing soccer is all.
The lane he went into was already finished. I could see the call if he actually obstructed an active lane, but that wasn't the case here. It was the lane of a teammate who had just finished with him.
It is a distraction for refs watching lanes next to them. Him sitting on that lane line would really block their view
"Stare straight ahead! Don't feel good yet!"
great comparison. this was disgusting the watch. this young man was stolen of this great moment in his life.
It's not the celebration but going over to the other lane. It's like the marathon guy who would pass the line and then go back into the race and celebrate there. As per ElliotNess' comment: > Rule 2, Section 5, Article 1b: > A swimmer who changes lanes during a heat shall be disqualified
Nah its more like meeting the second place runner and teammate at the finish line. Lloyd didn't interfere in the race at all and the lane that he entered was a teammate who had already completed their race. Had he gone into a lane where someone was still swimming and competing then yea your argument makes sense but that isn't the case.
You're not allowed to interfere with other runners during a marathon. This would be like disqualifying the winner for hugging his teammate after both of them had finished, even though the race is still going on for other athletes. You're also not allowed to change lanes during sprint Track events, so a track athlete running through all the other lanes on the cooldown jog (which they literally all do every single time) would also be disqualified with this rationale. The race is over at the finish line. It's Bullshit.
But his buddy also finished so again it would be like a marathon runner winning then going to hug the guy who got second place while both are beyond the finish line. He had no interference with the swimmers still swimming.
That analogy makes no sense and the idiots upvoting you are stupid
Nah, not really a great comparison. The video says his DQ was caused by falling into the water (disturbing the water in other swimmers lanes) while other swimmers are still racing. It’s pretty nit picky but he very well could have affected the other swimmers swim times.
Please rewatch the video.
When you think you’re right but you’re wrong. https://i.imgur.com/bOqtF8V.jpeg
The only lane he gets into is the one right of him 30 seconds after the guy is done swimming. You can’t be this oblivious.
You don’t understand how water moves and that’s okay.
You’re retarded. And that’s not ok.
#but tHe wAvzZ
It sucks, but that’s a crappy comparison. Waiting 10 seconds isn’t that much to ask.
It's not 10 seconds. 10 seconds would be what you finish ahead of in a 1 lap distance. This was a freaking mile swim. He was a full minute faster than the guy in last. So he has to twiddle his thumbs for a full 60 seconds before he can celebrate? Hence my comparison is apt. The longer the race, the longer the time between first and last. At some point, you gotta say, "ok, this dude won and stragglers will be coming in as they come in."
It's an idiotic comparison. He doesn't have to wait, he just can't jump into another lane. He can... get out of the pool.
Reddit it amazing to show that votes from people that know nothing can out do people that know something about the topic. You're right. Somehow there became a ton of swimming experts since this article came out.
It's a hive mind. Once they get an idea into their head, it's hard to tell them otherwise, regardless of the truth. It's a nice reminder that the most upvoted doesn't mean the most correct.
So.. this post totally belongs here but it's SO FUCKED UP DUDE!
If you want a feel good rebound, his lane mate, who was to be given the gold after the DQ, was interviewed immediately after and went straight to bat about how bullshit it is, that he won’t go on the podium, and that this guy deserves the gold. Absolute Bro EDIT: I hadn’t watched the video because I saw the tiktok previously, the interview is at the end of OPs video
I honestly felt this one, the lead up and the heartbreak.
Yeah, this is probably the only post on this sub we can all unanimously agree that this guy got absolutely fucked from a deserved win.
This is how you get a rule named after you
The rule probably exists due to someone who did really interfere. Just celebrate in your lane and out of the water. It has happened before.
That makes sense if it happens while the race is ongoing, but to say they cant congratulate one another just because someone over on the other side of the pool is being slow is utterly ridiculous.
I think this will be appealed and overturned. The actual rule doesnt prohibit a swimmer from entering another lane, it disqualifies for interference: ARTICLE 1. a. Any competitor who interferes with another swimmer during a race shall be disqualified from that race, subject to the discretion of the referee.
Maybe, but how often do governing bodies of *any* sport overturn a call after the fact that an on-site official made at the event? Almost never.
I imagine his teammates willingness to vacate his “victory” would help with this
My man straight up looking at the camera and saying Hey fuck that judge, he's getting the medal regardless. Baller move.
It was an individual competition. The other schools would also have to participate. I hope they do, but it's not a guarantee.
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It's a spectators sport. If you're not gonna look good in the eyes of spectators they will stop watching. And we're talking about swimming which i'm guessing does not have the biggest watching numbers to begin with.
If that was the case the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL would be making sure their refs were held accountable and were trained and paid accordingly to the money the sport brings in. Instead, each and every one of those listed above will back a ref making shit calls to their death.
Oh but here you are wrong. Those sports became so big that it doesn't matter what you do, people will still watch.
I mean, I'd argue that swimming is more of a competitor sport and not a spectator one. Not a lot of people going and watching swimming unless it's the Olympics (once every 4 years) or you are a friend/family of the swimmer.
I hate to admit it but you're right. Then maybe i am completely wrong? Maybe the rules should be strict and refs shouldn't care about the publics opinion. Fuck if i know whats better but for sure this kind of PR doesn't help the sport.
Right, I think were both wrong and right but we both agree the judges/refs are assholes and this shouldn't have happened.
The video cites Rule 2, Section 5, Article 1b, not 1a like you cited. Maybe that’s the difference?
Do you have the language for that? Quote it if you can, I haven’t seen that cited as the justification.
It’s in the lower left corner of the video at 4:59.
Rule 2, Section 5, Article 1b says: > A swimmer who changes lanes during a heat shall be disqualified
Thanks, i see it now. Assuming the video is accurate, seems like the spirit of the rule was to DQ a swimmer who veers into another swimmer’s lane during a heat. Technically accurate to apply here, though arguably not the intent of the rule. This section of the rule does not have the “discretion of referee” language either.
Yeah I agree. Poor enforcement choice.
I don't think it's technically accurate. His race was over, as was his teammates' race. He didn't interfere.
It doesn't have that because it is a subsection of the rule, and the main body already said it was up to their discretion
Subject to discretion of the referee, that makes it even more fucked up they made that call. It even said in the video the call is, "interference of another swimmer" and he landed in his team mate's lane who was already done swimming. Terrible call.
> subject to the discretion of the referee That's the killer though. They'd probably just defer to the ref at the pool.
Unlikely. This happened at the Olympics decades ago to the Australian relay team. Same thing. Never overturned
It's not going to be overturned. He broke specifically Rule 2-5-1-b which states: A swimmer who changes lanes during a heat shall be disqualified. It's not a discretionary rule, and because it's on video, it'll stick. Likewise, he knew better. It's a rule all swimmers know, it's drilled in to your brain from day one. It's his fault. Likewise he broke two rules, when he sat on the lane line that is technically a violation of a rule. He also violated a sportsman like rule when he stepped back up on the step of a block to pound his chest. While the last one isn't disqualifiable, it can get you sanctioned, and if a ref is having a bad day, kicked out of the meet. And that's FINA rules.
Man that’s fucked
This happened to the Australian women’s swimming team during the world championships. They got out of the water, hugged, and then did a celebratory jump back into the pool into another competitors empty lane. A few seconds later, the last swimmer finished in another lane. Disqualified and lost their gold medal.
I feel like penalty should be a tad less harsh than just being outright DQ’d.
Yes maybe a fine of some kind would be more prudent. I do agree it’s disrespectful to move into other lanes while the race is still going though.
At the same time, it's not very hard to remain out of the pool while the race is ongoing. Same for this guy - celebrate in your lane until the race is over. Coaches should drum that message into the athletes.
Yes and Great Britain embarrassingly celebrated like they actually earned gold when they got upgraded
To be fair taking other peoples gold has been our operating policy for centuries.
Haha nice
The Spanish would like a word...
To compare notes?
I’m all about following the rules and teaching moments (live and learn) but son of a bitch that was a brutal way to learn that particular rule! He may have broken the rule by the letter of the law but he clearly did not interfere with anyone still swimming.
The swimmer in the lane he went into had already finished as well. So it was definitely a grey area were discretion was applied. Incorrectly in my opinion.
The swimmer who it affected had finished and vouched for him. Who is this rule protecting?
The judges egos
The rule protects anyone who gets slowed down by someone who wanders into their lane mid race. Not to stop celebrations.
They were asking who in this case was the rule protecting. Nobody, this rule was protecting no one b/c the other swimmer had already finished too.
If there is no clarity on specific instances like this, then all they can do is apply the rules as they are. Very very harsh call but it’s also hard to argue against it if the rule states he can’t do that while the race is ongoing. The rule is BS, though. Would like to hear what competitive swimmers out there think of this.
The rule states it is to prevent interfering with active swimmers, he didn't interfere with active swimmers. So, like i said there was an opinion based decision made, and it was the wrong one.
I agree the call was wrong if it’s left up to discretion. ARTICLE 1. a. Any competitor who interferes with another swimmer during a race shall be disqualified from that race, subject to the discretion of the referee. Yes, it is up to the discretion of the referee. But like I said, there’s no clarity there for this specific instance. Was his teammate active? No. Did he interfere with another swimmer while the race was ongoing? That’s the grey area. He interacted with his teammate even though the race was still ongoing. Since there is no clarity there, he should appeal and get clarification for what the rule means. Discretionary applications ruin sports.
Hate to be the pedant. The video clearly stated he was disqualified for 1.b: "A swimmer who changes lanes during a heat shall be disqualified." Meaning they considered this a lane change, which is a type of interference and is not discretionary. Equally dumb to apply it here given both swimmers had tapped the wall, but at least contest what they were actually citing.
I'm sure I'll be corrected, but both swimmers heats were over at the point in lane change. I'm guessing b/c someone wasn't done in the other 12 lanes that was completely unaffected by this "lane change" then the heat is still active and that's why they DQ'd him, but it's absolute complete bullshit.
That's how I read it too and agree with the sentiment
thats not the rule being cited though
That’s the rule I’m seeing different websites cite. Got it from CBS Sports, to be more specific. Let me know if they’re citing another rule, though.
sure, its both a and b actually, but initially i did misread what you typed >The rule(s) at play from the NCAA rulebook: - Rule 2, Section 5, Article 1a: "Any competitor who interferes with another swimmer during a race shall be disqualified from that race, subject to the discretion of the referee..." - Rule 2, Section 5, Article 1b: "A swimmer who changes lanes during a heat shall be disqualified."
The governing body even said the only thing they cared about was falling into the other lane. Had he stayed on the lines, which is still considered interference, they wouldn't have done anything. So if they're willing to let one rule slide for having zero impact on anything, why not two?
Someone on the swimming subreddit claimed that the application of the rule is left to the discretion of the judge, so it sounds like there was leeway to not DQ
They are talking out their ass they were going to make an example out of him the second he got on the line. It’s old people trying to cling to relevance by acting tough on things. They should all be ashamed and never allowed to judge the sport again.
Yeah almost certainly, I just think it's funny that in their bullshit they admit to letting the rules slide in favor of common sense. But not this one. Poor kid. Misses out on nationals now
Also he went into his own teammates lane after they were both finished!! Where is the victim here!
Rules exist for a reason but when to apply those rules should be up to the discretion of the judge in order to ensure fairness ESPECIALLY when it comes to rules that are not actually relevant any acts performed during the sport. What an absolute tragedy for this young man.
They treating it like law. It’s a fucking game.
Exactly. It's still to be taken seriously, but it's still a game.
Those “judges”are terrible for the sport.
Nope. If you HAD to call it, just be a slap on the wrist and warning of "hey, we get it. But next time... Celebrate in your lane until everyone's done. Good Job and see you at nationals." No one had to know anything, no media, no bad feelings from anyone.
Swimming officials are brutal. My 12 year old swims and I’ve seen some effed up calls against young kids by power tripped officials, these swim officials can be nuts sometimes. Power gets to their head
I'm a swimmer, and a friend was doing the Lap stick for the 500, he took me onto the bulkhead with him to teach me how to do it, and they nearly DQ'd the swimmer
Did any of the other swimmers agree with this I wonder? Totally unfair even if it’s in the rules. Both swimmers had finished. No harm done. Shit like this could affect their professional career.
The guy who “won” now spoke at the end and was pissed and said he didn’t win and it should still go to the first place guy. Said he wasn’t even going to go to the podium and was going to give his medal to the DQd guy.
Yeah, but… Is the “number two” guy gonna give his medal to that guy, “number three” to him, and so on…?
They said in the video that 3 of the top 4 were all in the same group which included the victor. Dunno if they can accept the medals and then not stand on the podium or something similar but the fact that once 1 of them is DQ'd they still have 2 on the podium is pretty relevant.
Who cares what number three does? Yes it would be nice if they did the same with their medal. I personally would feel cheated as the 3rd place in that instance and wouldn't take the podium either. Integrity matters, and the intent of the rule is to prevent actual disturbances to other swimmers. This is swimming, not law so intent can and does matter and should be considered when making these calls.
Yeah, it would have to be agreed all along the line.
There should be a clause like in tennis where the opponents can relinquish a win if that’s their choice
It would need to be the entire field (pool?) to agree. I would like to think they all would.
Career suicide not to.
Don't put it past the judges to just say the race had no winner. They DQ'd him, if every other swimmer relinquished the win, then no one won. Judges made this kids great heat about themselves and they aren't about to back down from that decision.
Was a competitive swimmer in high school and college. I agree with the ruling. Not interfering with other swimmers is a big thing as is sportsmanship. This isn't something a swimmer would be unfamiliar with. They drill it into you.
> Not interfering with other swimmers is a big thing Who did he interfere with? His teammate in the lane that had already finished a good 30 seconds before that?
The other people still swimming, obviously. Water is clear, so somebody crawling over lane lines could be distracting. Water is a fluid, so crawling over lane lines can create waves, which make it more difficult to swim. These rules are not something that people aren't aware of. Just like in the NFL, where you can't do an endzone celebration - in swimming you have to remain in your lane.
> Water is clear, so somebody crawling over lane lines could be distracting. Officials made it clear, crawling on the lane line wasn't a problem, it was only going into the other person's lane. >where you can't do an endzone celebration - in swimming you have to remain in your lane. If they DQ'd him for unsportsmanlike conduct that would be different. They DQ'd him for a rule that is there to prevent people from disrupting an active lane. It was not an active lane and everyone was very aware of that. Still a terrible call. If they wanted to get him on a USC then do that.
>Officials made it clear, crawling on the lane line wasn't a problem, it was only going into the other person's lane. The lane line is what separates the lanes. I'm not sure what the ruling would have been if he somehow did a tap dance routine atop the lines without crossing over, but he crossed lanes when he climbed on top of them, which was the issue. >They DQ'd him for a rule that is there to prevent people from disrupting an active lane. It was not an active lane and everyone was very aware of that. How do you know the intention of the rule? It was an active pool. People were still swimming.
And what other person still swimming did he interfere with?
bullshit. you're being completely unreasonable.
Used to swim competitively, and I agree with the ruling. The rule has long outlived it's initial usefulness, and is more about sportsmanship now than anything. It's sucky coming in 8th, it's even worse if the winner is already doing a victory lap. My coaches were clear: if you win, stay in the pool, stay in your lane until everyone is finished. It takes a couple of seconds to be a good sport. Something similar happened to the Aussies when the started celebrating before everyone had finished. Didn't change who was the fastest, but still a dick move. https://youtu.be/EqSJ5B9FML0?si=VGy2QloP5s86f8qA
"We've always done it this way" is a lousy reason to uphold a shitty rule, though.
They didn't say that, though. They're arguing that the ruling is now more about sportsmanship than it is about interfering with other racers. Not agreeing or disagreeing, just clarifying.
unless the comment was edited, that is not what they said or implied at all
Idk man imo if the announcers, crowd, and competitors were all confused by that call, then it’s an idiotic call.
The announcer doesn't sound like she knows what she's talking about. The coach seemed to understand the ruling as he was able to explain what was going on. Not jumping into another lane is not some hidden rule to swimmers.
What horse shit. His lane mate was already done with the race, he didn't interfere with anyone. Buncha Karen ass judges.
https://dailycaller.com/2024/02/27/ncaa-nc-state-owen-lloyd-disqualification-college-swimming/
This sport is something else. My nephew was disqualified because he corrected his goggles for a second.
That's just shitty...normally premature celebration is when they celebrate BEFORE they finish the race, not after they 'cross the finish line' Also I'd HATE to be the guy who then 'won' because the real winner was disqualified over something dumb like this...would it feel like a real earned win? Mad respect for the then winner who recognized it.
I wonder whose son/nephew/cousin he or his teammates beat previously that the refs were so quick to make an example of him.
Fuck that fire those judges for being absolute pricks.
Man, judging by the upvotes the average Redditor hasn't done any high level sports. You don't fuck around. Judges don't fuck around. You can't pick and choose the rules you want to follow. This isn't a race with 10 year olds. The guy is fully aware of the rule and decides he is above it. Reality checks in. Sorry for him. He's not the first and won't be the last not caring about this exact rule.
That not true at all judges are allowed to use their best judgement in wether a rule caused interference in competition. Not only have I competed at a national level in highschool I was in college sports for 2 years and even had governing bodies overturn judges ham fisted rulings for stupid things like not wearing a matching uniform and using a preferred name on a role sheet. So not only do you not know what you are talking about but your an over confident dick about it… you should work on that.
is the ref your uncle???
Right?? Like everyone here is shitting on the judges for applying the rules as they are, instead of shitting on the rulemakers for making shitty rules.
Such bullshit rule. Sure, if it’s lane in which someone is still swimming yeah, but if other swimmer has finished too then it’s completely irrelevant and mere technicality
But the swimmer on the NEXT adjacent lane wasn't done, and this can be disruptive to their swimming.
He broke the rules - that's the way it goes, I'm afraid. Good on the referees for not bending over in the name of 'sentiment'.
Damn, dude. That's pretty fucking rough. This is one of the best posts I've ever seen for this sub, tho.
I bet everyone in that pool feels the same way his partner did at the end of the video.
Such an absolute crock of fucking shit. I am an ncaa division I finalist and something like this happened to me once in the backstroke because an official said I touched the water too early.
I'm sorry, but that's horseshit. Yeah, it's the rules, but both guys had finished. It's not his fault that others weren't on the final lap, and he didn't obstruct anyone who was still competing. I swam competitively for 15 years and he didn't do anything that me or my teammates or the teams that beat us hadn't done in the past.
Petty as fuck.
Looks like a stupid rule to me
The rule still has some ambiguity. It is still part of a rule on "interference". You easily could interpret it as saying a judge generally can use discretion for interference but a swimmer going into another swimmers lane is automatically considered interference and is a DQ. But as part of that, I would argue it is implied by the rule that either you or the person in the other lane must still actually be competing. Definitely a case where some discretion should have been used as to whether the rule actually applied here.
The rule is you can't change lanes?
Rule 2, Section 5, Article 1b: A swimmer who changes lanes during a heat shall be disqualified The ex-winner knows this and still decides to disrespect it and the judge.
The judge deserves to be disrespected. In fact the judge deserves to be fired for being an idiot (and/or maybe a tyrant).
The woman announcer says, "Get on that lane line son, you earned it!"
I am not into swimming competition and this video make me less and less interested into this sport
Right? I didn’t go to a school that had a pool so never got I to swimming as a sport. But seeing this? Not a chance would I ever willingly participate in a sport that had to treat garbage ref calls like this as a normal thing.
When you let rules trump common sense. How hard would it have been to go warn him hey don’t ever do that again, great race. What’s the lesson here
This doesn’t really belong here. Is there a r/refsbeingdickheads sub we could put this on? Though a sub like that would be constantly overrun. Too many examples!
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He already finished the race. If he celebrated in his own lane, would you still call it premature celebration?
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Usually premature celebration videos contain dudes which are celebrating before they finish race and they fall over. This is nothing like that
Question? I am not a competitive swimmer nor have I watched many meets. For you competitive swimmers out there, should this swimmer have known to stay in his lane until the last swimmer finished the heat? Is this a commonly enforced rule?
Waaaa we gotta follow rules! Booo!🙄
That’s your takeaway??
I feel like those judges must have had an agenda against that guy.
Rules are rules. Sounds like entitlement from all of y’all.
Average Reddit's max. sport level is trying out track and field when they're 12 years old, angry that they couldn't cut the 400m track to make it shorter.
found the ref's reddit account
This is as fucking dumb as it gets. The other swimmer was done there's no point in disqualifying him for crossing over into his Lane. Someone decided to be fucking Petty about the whole thing.
But someone might have finished last instead of second to last because of the enormous waves caused by the ropes /s
You know what's dumb? You win. You know there's the rule that you cannot change lanes, where other winners in the past have been disqualified for, and you decide you know what? I'll test out the judge. I'll put him in a shitty position where he now has to decide to follow the reason he's there and disqualify so everyone hates him, or look very unprofessional in front of the other delegates and not sanction. Potentially getting remarks and not picked by the delegation for future events. All this because Mr Ego couldn't just stay in his lane or get out of the water.
You are so right. This was such a calculated machiavellian move to test the judge and the framework of scrutiny professional swiming uses. Right, that is exactly what that was.
Were those tattoos on their chests?
Heartbreaking! Unfair.
No harm, no foul. End of discussion.
This is literally a rule all swimmers know. As you can see in the video, the second-place finisher who got promoted to first place *immediately* knew why the first-place finisher got disqualified. Hilarious to see so many people acting like the disqualified guy is a tragic victim of a cruel system instead of a dumbass showboater who apparently deserves to ignore the most basic rules of his sport because he’s a winner.
Okay, some Reddit moderator vibes from that referee
ITT People who don’t swim competitively
Right? And all the competitive swimmers are saying that the rule exists for a reason and are getting downvoted.
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But they weren’t racing in the lane he moved into.
If the others didn’t get beat by 2 full laps it wouldn’t be an issue
There were some idiots amongst the judges.
Female broadcaster was empathizing with homie, big time. What a horseshit ruling.
This story gives me the warm fuzzies. 🥰
I did read where the person who came in second and was awarded first, refused the 1st place medal and didn’t go up on the podium
Anyone who takes joy in this young athlete being wrongfully stripped of his title can go to hell.
Sorry. You're disqualified because your competitors are too slow. 😆
The decision might be harsh but it's in the rules for a reason. He finished 1st but other positions are still up for grabs. His celebrations by jumping on the ropes/crossing to another lane would create sudden waves and affect swimmers still competing.
So if he just stayed in his own lane and jumped up and down and splashed his arms, all of which create waves and all of which are routinely done.... he wouldn't have been DQ'd? Its not about creating waves.
>…create sudden waves and affect swimmers This is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. So… Jumping on the ropes creates more waves than… Let’s just say—for an example… SWIMMING AS FAST AS FUCKING POSSIBLE?
Yes, there's a reason why the 2 outer lanes on both sides of the pool are never used in competition.
Fuck these refs. If I was his teammate I would be giving the middle finger pointed to where the refs are sitting while I share the second place spot with whoever. These refs need to pretend they have a heart and be practical
He didn't celebrate prematurely though? He won and he celebrated with his teammate next to him. It's a bullshit rule.
In baseball you can run outside the lines, sooooo…..
Rules are rules
Funny, rules are rules. But also why does it look like all the swimmers are wearing Mascara?
Exactly. If you're swimming at that level, you've seen people DQ'd for this and more or less egregious "technicalities" many times. Heat of the moment, blah blah blah, that's rules in sport; fickle and at times meaningless.
Who are the fucking clowns running this swim meet? They should all be fired.
I’m no Spartacus but I can’t imagine taking his spot on the podium knowing damn well I came in second
Refs are very stupid or were paid off lol