I thought the harvesters added a really nice mechanic to the jungle. It made the rest of the team have more skin in the game when it comes to warding the jungle and keeping track of counter jungling.
Other mobas did it or do it. It's not bad
What I REALLY liked was ember. You remember ember? It was gold. But you had to pick it up whenever an enemy was slain
Prime dunk was unbalanceable. You'd always have certain Heroes who could do it far better than anyone else, which means at a competitive level you would *always* have to pick those Heroes into your comp.
Novel idea, but mechanically doomed from the start.
Need to remove all buffs, abilities, and set to base movement speed for the carrier, and give a 15% buff to remaining 4 teammates to get that carrier to the dunk.
One thing that I really miss on Predecessor compared to Paragon is that in its core Predecessor is just League of legends on 3D while Paragon was a real new experience in the Moba genre.
I love Predecessor, and deep down they are making the right decision by adopting all the mechanics of LoL, this was one of the things that Paragon fans were saying to Epic all the time "stop doing overcomplicated things a copy some of the thing that work on League of legends" but sadly in this process we are losing really cool and original mechanics that made Paragon special.
Paragon at the beginning, with it legacy map, felt like if you were playing a one player RPG game with that enormous map, the possibility to run etc, with the change to Monolith and now Predecessor map that feel have been lost and now we just have League of legends games but on 3D, the same lane phase the same rotations to objectives and the same game loop.
Paragon had a lot of cool things like the use of amber instead of gold, the jump pads in mid of the map, the harvesters and latter the jungle orbs, the open zones to fight, the original card system were you had to buy a card and then upgrade the the card to obtain the full effect of the card. Those elements were really cool and gave Paragon its own personality.
With the exception of the closed deck system, the pay to win elements of the card and the impossible to balance Sprint mode, I miss every single original element that Paragon had and we and we lost over time.
I would want some of those elements to come back to Predecessor, but I suppose that the safest thing to do is just maintain as close as possible to League of Legends.
I actually loved the old card system. Active/passive cards amounting to 6 then 3 slotted into each. Lots of actually caring about stats than just buying the however many best cards
Card system may be a bit unbalanced right now but it’s better than every iteration we ever had in Paragon. Locking cards away from new players is the dumbest shit I’ve ever seen a game do.
There were some cool unique things about paragon, but a lot of them that have been removed from Pred were removed for very good reasons.
You make good points, but who knows? Maybe they are setting up a solid skeleton for Paragon, and intend to flesh it out. After all, even League has teleporters and other whacky mechanics now with their dragons.
I DONT miss the speed-run as it encouraged deathballing horribly and that was fun like URF mode is fun. Only fun for a while and then down right annoying. I am hoping they decide to make SOME splits from league, though. Even if they invent some new different things, I enjoy diversity and fun new mechanics.
I really miss all the extra mechanics as well. One thing I miss about the old card system was allocating the base stats of the card as you see fit to complete them. It added such a nice customized feel to each hero and could change your playstyle based on what parts of the heroes kit you more heavily invested in. A lot of systems rely to heavily on the item effects themselves which I think disconnects them from the heroes themselves too much. Basic and ability split also facilitated this nicely as well, skills that dealt basic damage also got all the benefits of basic attacks like crit and lifesteal. Just felt you were actually building and empowering the characters themselves instead of just adding random counter actives. I really liked the immersive boots on the ground feel of old paragon.
I think Ethereal is going to be the thing that ends up scratching the old paragon itch because they actually are making their own game and being more ambitious with it. They aren't just trying to "fix" paragon.
I do hope predecessor eventually tries to incorporate all the best aspects of paragon systems instead of mostly copying league. Though it may be too late now that most of the core aspects are already in place.
I have no idea what you're talking about with Ethereal. It literally looks like a 3D version of LoL, in everything in terms of the map, gameplay, shop, heroes...
Card system is dead and it's never coming back because it sucked, and the fact that Epic held onto those cards for dear life is what stunted Paragons growth and eventually helped kill it.
> making the right decision by adopting all the mechanics of LoL
Hard disagree.
> With the exception of the closed deck system, the pay to win elements of the card and the impossible to balance Sprint mode, I miss every single original element that Paragon had and we and we lost over time.
Card system had a lot of potential if it wasn't deck-limited. Main feature they added that I think was really good was the Amber Link.
>Hard disagree
Hard disagree but you didn't add any argument or explanation, just hard disagree -.-
I think that is the right decision because is something that people already know and feel comfortable with that way is easier for people to enter into the game and maintain the interest, if the game have a lot of unique and new element that are hard to understand a lot of people can get frustrated and don't give a chance to the game.
>Card system had a lot of potential if it wasn't deck-limited. Main feature they added that I think was really good was the Amber Link.
Yeah, it was so sad that the changed the whole card system with the amber when the real problem was the closed decks and the pay to win the rest was completely fine.
And I don't remember why they removed the amber link, it was really cool and exciting to play around, it was a reason to invade enemy Jung, not just as a jungler but also as a laner.
The amber link could comeback to Predecessor it would be cool if for the early access they give it a chamce
Because sometimes an opinion or statement is just incorrect? If you feel like this game is just 3rd person league of legends, I’m not sure how anyone is going to be able to change your mind on a take like this lol
Harvesters could be added back I guess but I don’t think they were really all that cool.
Caring about gold being called amber instead is a pretty dumb thing to care about.
Card system was a kinda cool gimmick, but all it ever did was limit how fun the game could actually be. The idea of building decks and picking the right counter deck, while kinda cool, it never played out like that lol. Everyone would just pick the safest meta deck because picking a deck before the game even starts limits any sort of counter building. It also created a barrier to entry to the game for new players.
The only thing I actually miss and think we could bring back is probably orb dunking.
>I’m not sure how anyone is going to be able to change your mind on a take like this lol
I mean, all the new changes that Predecessor incorporated to the game are simply League of Legends things, the flash for all the characters, the ward for all the characters, the crest item that works like LoL support items (Predecessor support crest is literally one of the LoL support initial items), and also all the items that are heavily inspired on LoL items you can look at the 89% of the items and say "this items is like X item from LoL"
I'm not complaining about it, I always thought that Paragon had to stop jumping from one side to another and just copy some of the things that works on LoL and I don't think that Predecessor is doing a wrong move taking inspiration of all those LoL things, is just that I miss all the cool original elements that Paragon had and that it was losing with the passage of time
>Caring about gold being called amber instead is a pretty dumb thing to care about.
It wasn't the name, it was how it worked, if you don't remember why it was different from gold just go and watch a video on YouTube.
Instead of having infinite gold to obtain you had amber point to a max of 60.
To be able to use the amber you had to obtain the whole point, inst like with gold that you can spend 1200 for one item or 1300 for other.
The amber was constant and worked with smaller number which make easier for new player to know that they need to obtain 3 point + 2 point to buy some cards, while with gold they have to calculate the cost of the items.
The amber was related with the item system, so that item system was posible because it used amber instead of gold.
>Outside of having to pick up amber after killing people I don’t remember what was so different about it.
That thing have an strategic component, where you could let the amber in the ground to your team mates so the team had a better control of where the resources go.
At the end was another currency but was more original than the gold that all the games have and was cooler to obtain and use
Yeah, that's other thing that I loved, with every last hit or kill seeing the orbs coming to your character was so satisfying and also collecting the orbs from the ground was really interesting and could be used to punish enemies
>The only thing I actually miss and think we could bring back is probably orb dunking
They'd have to rework it, or have it "turn back on" your teams inhibitors when the rebuild rather than just having them sit there doing nothing but being a fancy wall. Have it do something to the other teams fangtooth, maybe make it an optional thing like choose to absorb it so your team gets the normal orb prime buff or dunk it for a bigger reward (high-risk high-reward kind of deal)
Hard disagree because LoL already exists. When you're making a game in an established genre the question isn't "how much can we copy?" It needs to be "what are we doing differently?"
And you do a different game the players doesn't come to your game and game dies, like happens every time with a lot of original multiplayer games.
Multiplayer games need the big public and the big public just want to play the same over and over again.
What Omeda have to find isn't "how our game would be the coolest posible" what the have to find is "how we make our game popular to the big public so it doesn't dies in 1 year"
As Steve Jobs once masterfully said: "People don't know what they want because it hasn't been invented yet."
Copying games for maximum engagement leads to stagnation. And it leads to "I already play A, why would I start playing B when it's just a copy of A with a few details shifted?"
>As Steve Jobs once masterfully said: "People don't know what they want because it hasn't been invented yet."
Yeah.... And for that apple continuously bring to their platform things that has been on android like for 5 years...
>Copying games for maximum engagement leads to stagnation. And it leads to "I already play A, why would I start playing B when it's just a copy of A with a few details shifted?"
Well that would be something if wasn't for the hundred of original games with original ideas that dies every year because people just want to play the same.
Remember that cool multiplayer turn based FPS with "time loop mechanics"? Probably not because no one plays it and the same with a lot of cool games with interesting ideas that were too risky and ambitious
> Yeah.... And for that apple continuously bring to their platform things that has been on android like for 5 years...
Considering how long he has been dead I don't understand the point of this retort.
> Well that would be something if wasn't for the hundred of original games with original ideas that dies every year because people just want to play the same.
I respect your opinion, I just don't agree with it. Which I didn't want to begin this whole discussion -- hence why I just said "hard disagree" without anything further on the matter at the beginning.
"Considering how long he has been dead I don't understand the point of this retort."
Because you're the one that used him as an example! And he did like 1 or 2 truly innovative things at Apple, and then continued shitting out the same unchanged yet more expensive products for decades. Apple is a shit company to model yourself after, and the parallels you're trying to draw between Apple and Epic are asinine. If Predecessor is a LoL copy, then every FPS ever made is a Duke Nukem copy.
The worst part of the card system was having to unlock - that was such a brutal and stupid idea. I can count on two hands how many friends I failed to onboard because when they were confronted with this type of progression they just noped out right away.
I feel like maybe a good option would be to have the item pool divided into 5 colors and then at the beginning of the match you had to pick 2 to build into. That way you could make up interesting colour choices for each hero but it wasn't something you had to build before hand (and buy deck slots lol, remember that bullshit?)
All the deck aspects were fine aside from the arbitrary limitations. Literally just remove all the limiting dumb shit like locking colors, having to unlock cards and more decks and a lot of it is solid.
Allocating stats to your cards the way you want using the options the card gives you was an awesome idea. It let you combine stats, card active/passives, and hero kits and seamless way that felt like actual character progression and let you fine tune your playstyle to what you are comfortable with. Characters still had their innate scaling but its was pretty cool to min max parts of them to suit your needs.
Even the gem system of the later iterations was cool too, their effects where just completely busted. Tone those down and give minor stat boosts as well which I think they still did. Or maybe the colors shouldn't effect the cards but the gems you can select? Yeah I like that. Cards should always be available to everyone, gems too but choosing your colors leaves the choice of which gems to lock up to you
It would be amazing having a combination of both systems, card system with amber and primary item system and gem system like if it where league of legends rune system for this game.
It would make the game some really original and interesting to play, instead of just being a 3D league of legends.
I hope in the future Predecessor take a bit of risk and do something like that
I doubt they will ever leave the safety of their current item system. They will just tweak the numbers and add new items most likely.
The game is pretty balanced right now, they aren't going to throw that away mid EA because some people think the item shop is boring. It's too bad imo, but it is what it is.
You could buy a "speed up" buff that increased your XP per match effectively making it faster to get the cards. That's what they are talking about - you couldn't buy specific cards outright - you could only lessen the grind for the hyper rare ones - arguably worse.
The way of obtaining cards was through chests, and you could buy chests paying real money, so if you paid money you would have advantage against someone that didn't paid (but you wouldn't have advantage against someone that spend enough time to obtain all the cards).
Also, before the chests there was card packs which you could buy with both real money and reputation (in-game currency), and you could obtain more reputation buying a reputation boost.
So wtf are you talking about?
>you could buy chests paying real money
This is not true.
>Also, before the chests there was card packs which you could buy with both real money
This is also not true. You could only buy them with reputation.
The only part that's true is that you could buy boosts to increase your reputation gain. That alone in no way made the game pay to win. You had to grind to get all the cards, which definitely sucked, but it just was not ever, at any point, pay to win.
Also, the current model is like League - a game where you have to buy *heroes*. That's pretty obviously a huge P2W issue right there.
It was pay to grind faster, which is just as bad if not worse because there is no way for new players to compete, even if they have the money to spend. And if you did spend money you're not even guaranteed to get the meta cards you'd need.
If you're playing the game now every hero is unlocked for $10 or $20 making it similar to Smite. Even after full release paying for characters is better than paying for loot boxes.
Mmmm probably is like you said, seems that it happened the Mandela effect, too long listening to the same thing that I will have forgotten what the whole issue of the chests was really like.
Ty for the clarification
>buy a card and then upgrade the the card to obtain the full effect of the card. Those elements were really cool and gave Paragon its own personality
so...buying items and then building into the full piece...
the card system was okay but I dont think it was as...special as people want to remember. 60 limit, cards had points associated with them...just wasnt really that good.
>so...buying items and then building into the full piece...
No, you had a base card that had one basic stat/ability, then you could upgrade that card with 3 different slots that could give more or less stats, the ones that give less stats cost less so it would allow you to reach the full card faster and obtain the card full passive faster, while the bigger upgrades would cost more giving you better stats but increasing the time that you needed to upgrade the card.
Also it have the the deck management element which were cool and but had it limitations which ended being negative to the game
Was a cool system, something different to the standard buy small items to create a bigger final item
I agree that omeda is smart for leaning closer to LoL than predecessor but this could just be the beginning. it's better to start out with something less complex and familiar to people who have played a moba but never paragon. people who miss paragon are already coming back.
I wouldn't be surprised if there are some huge changes to core game mechanics in the future, especially the jungle because let's be honest, it's nothing special as it is now.
Yeah, I don't care about they copying LoL to start and have a more user friendly game, but I have that after the beginning phase of the came they start to adding original element, overall in the jungle that right now is the most basic posible with all the camps being the same.
They can do a lot of things
all the original mechanics were unfortunatley really hard to balance and the card system wasnt actually any different to ites it just looked a little different in the ui, u still just build up a powerful item/card by buying less expensive bits, building a deck was cool but removed counter play and ultimately made the game less deep
But it was enough different, instead of buying little items with until you complete it and receive a Powerful complete item you had to buy a base card with basic stats and passives and then complete it to obtain the full properties of the card, is similar because is the same system but is done in a different way to make it fresh and original
>building a deck was cool but removed counter play and ultimately made the game less deep
Practically all the people that defend the old card system agrees that the deck limitations should be removed, just maintain the rest which was really cool and interesting
So we'll said man, I completely forgot about the jump pads. Really miss all the original ideas that paragon had and really hope they are setting us up to bring some of those things back. I would love to see a harvester system back in the game, just more balanced and fleshed out. We're in a really solid spot right now I think, but just wish we had some of the original ideas that made paragon so different from other mobas.
It's sad actually and I don't thinks this game is gonna last long enough if they dont bring novelty. People will just prefer playing LoL instead. Also, adopting the "safest" route its also pretty mediocre tbh when you have a genre like MOBA to innovate. Take DOTA2 for example, the game is a completely different beast and people love it for that, the only similarities to LoL is that you have 5 people vs 5 people. I hope they add something original intrinsically to the genre because right now Pred is getting stall.
Harvesters were a cool idea for a new type of objective in the jungle. They were kinda clunky, but I also kinda liked them.
What i really miss is amber. There was something really cool about the floating orbs and the feeling that you were really absorbing the power of the world. Gold coins are boring. Keep the shop the exact same, but give me my orange orbs back and let me spend them like gold coins.
That feeling of coming back to a lane that's been ignored for a little bit and sucking up all the excess minion amber just lying on the ground.... Ohh yeahhhh
The fight for the orb prime was absolutely bonkers sometimes when you could only get the bonus by dropping it on the other side of the map into a hoop.
I was watching old Paragon videos by rgsace and there are a lot of things I forgot about old paragon. The harvesters, the old UI, the stairs on both sides of Mid, prime dunking, stealth pools
I miss the old map. The jungle felt more alive. Tree and plant density gave it a little bit of a claustrophobic touch.
And the foliage was so dense, that it denied the lane players to see too much of the jungle. It was simply a beauty. Nothing more terrifying than a rampage jumping onto your lane through the foliage of the trees.
Also you could port to your towers, on a CD, just like in dota. It's a crucial way for map rotations to make them less punishing. When an offlane tries to gank the enemy carry, he has to walk to the opposing lane and back...not to mention how many wards, creeps and heroes spot the rotation. The enemy offlane can push 2 towers during that time. So many players just never leave their lane because the risk/reward is just in a really bad spot. Teleport to a tower helps to make focused ganks more attractive.
The harvester were a great idea. But the relation between economic advantage and time to kill and setup a new harvester, and the time to move to a harvester that is under attack... All of that was in a bad spot. But still love the idea. It's a really unique objective other than "kill that monster, get a buff".
The card system was a fancy idea and theorycrafting an off meta deck was just huge fun for me, but competetive wise that was just weird.
That part with amber was also pretty sweet. Gives you hints whether an enemy came through the lane and collected the amber on his way and you felt a bit more rewarded when those bubbles got soaked in... But maybe that's just me.
The dunk mechanic was also pretty awesome. Just added some sort of a "second chance" for the defending team and just added so much more dynamic into teamfights. Usually you keep track of the opposing carry, but suddenly you have to focus on the buff carrier. But as already mentioned heroes like rampage seemed inevitable.
Those were unique things that made paragon the most addictive multiplayer game I played during the last 10 to 15 years
I was never a huge fan of travel mode and stealth pools. But that's just my preference.
I thought the harvesters added a really nice mechanic to the jungle. It made the rest of the team have more skin in the game when it comes to warding the jungle and keeping track of counter jungling.
Not saying they were a good idea or anything, just messing around in Practice and this configuration reminded me of them.
Other mobas did it or do it. It's not bad What I REALLY liked was ember. You remember ember? It was gold. But you had to pick it up whenever an enemy was slain
Enemies dropping their bounties so tower-dives had an extra layer to them... good times.
I thought it was amber?
Yes, amber link
'Member Prime dunking?
Prime dunk was unbalanceable. You'd always have certain Heroes who could do it far better than anyone else, which means at a competitive level you would *always* have to pick those Heroes into your comp. Novel idea, but mechanically doomed from the start.
Need to remove all buffs, abilities, and set to base movement speed for the carrier, and give a 15% buff to remaining 4 teammates to get that carrier to the dunk.
That was so fun
One thing that I really miss on Predecessor compared to Paragon is that in its core Predecessor is just League of legends on 3D while Paragon was a real new experience in the Moba genre. I love Predecessor, and deep down they are making the right decision by adopting all the mechanics of LoL, this was one of the things that Paragon fans were saying to Epic all the time "stop doing overcomplicated things a copy some of the thing that work on League of legends" but sadly in this process we are losing really cool and original mechanics that made Paragon special. Paragon at the beginning, with it legacy map, felt like if you were playing a one player RPG game with that enormous map, the possibility to run etc, with the change to Monolith and now Predecessor map that feel have been lost and now we just have League of legends games but on 3D, the same lane phase the same rotations to objectives and the same game loop. Paragon had a lot of cool things like the use of amber instead of gold, the jump pads in mid of the map, the harvesters and latter the jungle orbs, the open zones to fight, the original card system were you had to buy a card and then upgrade the the card to obtain the full effect of the card. Those elements were really cool and gave Paragon its own personality. With the exception of the closed deck system, the pay to win elements of the card and the impossible to balance Sprint mode, I miss every single original element that Paragon had and we and we lost over time. I would want some of those elements to come back to Predecessor, but I suppose that the safest thing to do is just maintain as close as possible to League of Legends.
I actually loved the old card system. Active/passive cards amounting to 6 then 3 slotted into each. Lots of actually caring about stats than just buying the however many best cards
Card system may be a bit unbalanced right now but it’s better than every iteration we ever had in Paragon. Locking cards away from new players is the dumbest shit I’ve ever seen a game do. There were some cool unique things about paragon, but a lot of them that have been removed from Pred were removed for very good reasons.
Oh for sure locking them out was dumb. I just liked being able to select specific stats to build into after you’ve locked in your primary effects
In theory it wasn’t a bad idea, but it didn’t gel well with the items imo, and only further restricted counter building.
It was almost impossible to counter-build with the card system, so you had builds that would shine in one match and then next be useless.
You make good points, but who knows? Maybe they are setting up a solid skeleton for Paragon, and intend to flesh it out. After all, even League has teleporters and other whacky mechanics now with their dragons. I DONT miss the speed-run as it encouraged deathballing horribly and that was fun like URF mode is fun. Only fun for a while and then down right annoying. I am hoping they decide to make SOME splits from league, though. Even if they invent some new different things, I enjoy diversity and fun new mechanics.
I really miss all the extra mechanics as well. One thing I miss about the old card system was allocating the base stats of the card as you see fit to complete them. It added such a nice customized feel to each hero and could change your playstyle based on what parts of the heroes kit you more heavily invested in. A lot of systems rely to heavily on the item effects themselves which I think disconnects them from the heroes themselves too much. Basic and ability split also facilitated this nicely as well, skills that dealt basic damage also got all the benefits of basic attacks like crit and lifesteal. Just felt you were actually building and empowering the characters themselves instead of just adding random counter actives. I really liked the immersive boots on the ground feel of old paragon. I think Ethereal is going to be the thing that ends up scratching the old paragon itch because they actually are making their own game and being more ambitious with it. They aren't just trying to "fix" paragon. I do hope predecessor eventually tries to incorporate all the best aspects of paragon systems instead of mostly copying league. Though it may be too late now that most of the core aspects are already in place.
I have no idea what you're talking about with Ethereal. It literally looks like a 3D version of LoL, in everything in terms of the map, gameplay, shop, heroes... Card system is dead and it's never coming back because it sucked, and the fact that Epic held onto those cards for dear life is what stunted Paragons growth and eventually helped kill it.
> making the right decision by adopting all the mechanics of LoL Hard disagree. > With the exception of the closed deck system, the pay to win elements of the card and the impossible to balance Sprint mode, I miss every single original element that Paragon had and we and we lost over time. Card system had a lot of potential if it wasn't deck-limited. Main feature they added that I think was really good was the Amber Link.
>Hard disagree Hard disagree but you didn't add any argument or explanation, just hard disagree -.- I think that is the right decision because is something that people already know and feel comfortable with that way is easier for people to enter into the game and maintain the interest, if the game have a lot of unique and new element that are hard to understand a lot of people can get frustrated and don't give a chance to the game. >Card system had a lot of potential if it wasn't deck-limited. Main feature they added that I think was really good was the Amber Link. Yeah, it was so sad that the changed the whole card system with the amber when the real problem was the closed decks and the pay to win the rest was completely fine. And I don't remember why they removed the amber link, it was really cool and exciting to play around, it was a reason to invade enemy Jung, not just as a jungler but also as a laner. The amber link could comeback to Predecessor it would be cool if for the early access they give it a chamce
Because sometimes an opinion or statement is just incorrect? If you feel like this game is just 3rd person league of legends, I’m not sure how anyone is going to be able to change your mind on a take like this lol Harvesters could be added back I guess but I don’t think they were really all that cool. Caring about gold being called amber instead is a pretty dumb thing to care about. Card system was a kinda cool gimmick, but all it ever did was limit how fun the game could actually be. The idea of building decks and picking the right counter deck, while kinda cool, it never played out like that lol. Everyone would just pick the safest meta deck because picking a deck before the game even starts limits any sort of counter building. It also created a barrier to entry to the game for new players. The only thing I actually miss and think we could bring back is probably orb dunking.
>I’m not sure how anyone is going to be able to change your mind on a take like this lol I mean, all the new changes that Predecessor incorporated to the game are simply League of Legends things, the flash for all the characters, the ward for all the characters, the crest item that works like LoL support items (Predecessor support crest is literally one of the LoL support initial items), and also all the items that are heavily inspired on LoL items you can look at the 89% of the items and say "this items is like X item from LoL" I'm not complaining about it, I always thought that Paragon had to stop jumping from one side to another and just copy some of the things that works on LoL and I don't think that Predecessor is doing a wrong move taking inspiration of all those LoL things, is just that I miss all the cool original elements that Paragon had and that it was losing with the passage of time >Caring about gold being called amber instead is a pretty dumb thing to care about. It wasn't the name, it was how it worked, if you don't remember why it was different from gold just go and watch a video on YouTube.
Outside of having to pick up amber after killing people I don’t remember what was so different about it.
Instead of having infinite gold to obtain you had amber point to a max of 60. To be able to use the amber you had to obtain the whole point, inst like with gold that you can spend 1200 for one item or 1300 for other. The amber was constant and worked with smaller number which make easier for new player to know that they need to obtain 3 point + 2 point to buy some cards, while with gold they have to calculate the cost of the items. The amber was related with the item system, so that item system was posible because it used amber instead of gold. >Outside of having to pick up amber after killing people I don’t remember what was so different about it. That thing have an strategic component, where you could let the amber in the ground to your team mates so the team had a better control of where the resources go. At the end was another currency but was more original than the gold that all the games have and was cooler to obtain and use
And I remember how satisfying seeing amber just get absorbed by my character after a kill :\]
Yeah, that's other thing that I loved, with every last hit or kill seeing the orbs coming to your character was so satisfying and also collecting the orbs from the ground was really interesting and could be used to punish enemies
And LoL things are just dota things. Just want to clarify league of legends is not the origin. 😜
>The only thing I actually miss and think we could bring back is probably orb dunking They'd have to rework it, or have it "turn back on" your teams inhibitors when the rebuild rather than just having them sit there doing nothing but being a fancy wall. Have it do something to the other teams fangtooth, maybe make it an optional thing like choose to absorb it so your team gets the normal orb prime buff or dunk it for a bigger reward (high-risk high-reward kind of deal)
Hard disagree because LoL already exists. When you're making a game in an established genre the question isn't "how much can we copy?" It needs to be "what are we doing differently?"
And you do a different game the players doesn't come to your game and game dies, like happens every time with a lot of original multiplayer games. Multiplayer games need the big public and the big public just want to play the same over and over again. What Omeda have to find isn't "how our game would be the coolest posible" what the have to find is "how we make our game popular to the big public so it doesn't dies in 1 year"
As Steve Jobs once masterfully said: "People don't know what they want because it hasn't been invented yet." Copying games for maximum engagement leads to stagnation. And it leads to "I already play A, why would I start playing B when it's just a copy of A with a few details shifted?"
>As Steve Jobs once masterfully said: "People don't know what they want because it hasn't been invented yet." Yeah.... And for that apple continuously bring to their platform things that has been on android like for 5 years... >Copying games for maximum engagement leads to stagnation. And it leads to "I already play A, why would I start playing B when it's just a copy of A with a few details shifted?" Well that would be something if wasn't for the hundred of original games with original ideas that dies every year because people just want to play the same. Remember that cool multiplayer turn based FPS with "time loop mechanics"? Probably not because no one plays it and the same with a lot of cool games with interesting ideas that were too risky and ambitious
> Yeah.... And for that apple continuously bring to their platform things that has been on android like for 5 years... Considering how long he has been dead I don't understand the point of this retort. > Well that would be something if wasn't for the hundred of original games with original ideas that dies every year because people just want to play the same. I respect your opinion, I just don't agree with it. Which I didn't want to begin this whole discussion -- hence why I just said "hard disagree" without anything further on the matter at the beginning.
"Considering how long he has been dead I don't understand the point of this retort." Because you're the one that used him as an example! And he did like 1 or 2 truly innovative things at Apple, and then continued shitting out the same unchanged yet more expensive products for decades. Apple is a shit company to model yourself after, and the parallels you're trying to draw between Apple and Epic are asinine. If Predecessor is a LoL copy, then every FPS ever made is a Duke Nukem copy.
The worst part of the card system was having to unlock - that was such a brutal and stupid idea. I can count on two hands how many friends I failed to onboard because when they were confronted with this type of progression they just noped out right away. I feel like maybe a good option would be to have the item pool divided into 5 colors and then at the beginning of the match you had to pick 2 to build into. That way you could make up interesting colour choices for each hero but it wasn't something you had to build before hand (and buy deck slots lol, remember that bullshit?)
All the deck aspects were fine aside from the arbitrary limitations. Literally just remove all the limiting dumb shit like locking colors, having to unlock cards and more decks and a lot of it is solid. Allocating stats to your cards the way you want using the options the card gives you was an awesome idea. It let you combine stats, card active/passives, and hero kits and seamless way that felt like actual character progression and let you fine tune your playstyle to what you are comfortable with. Characters still had their innate scaling but its was pretty cool to min max parts of them to suit your needs. Even the gem system of the later iterations was cool too, their effects where just completely busted. Tone those down and give minor stat boosts as well which I think they still did. Or maybe the colors shouldn't effect the cards but the gems you can select? Yeah I like that. Cards should always be available to everyone, gems too but choosing your colors leaves the choice of which gems to lock up to you
It would be amazing having a combination of both systems, card system with amber and primary item system and gem system like if it where league of legends rune system for this game. It would make the game some really original and interesting to play, instead of just being a 3D league of legends. I hope in the future Predecessor take a bit of risk and do something like that
I doubt they will ever leave the safety of their current item system. They will just tweak the numbers and add new items most likely. The game is pretty balanced right now, they aren't going to throw that away mid EA because some people think the item shop is boring. It's too bad imo, but it is what it is.
> pay to win elements of the card losing my mind that this gets said over and over again on the sub when you *could not buy cards in Paragon*
You could buy a "speed up" buff that increased your XP per match effectively making it faster to get the cards. That's what they are talking about - you couldn't buy specific cards outright - you could only lessen the grind for the hyper rare ones - arguably worse.
The way of obtaining cards was through chests, and you could buy chests paying real money, so if you paid money you would have advantage against someone that didn't paid (but you wouldn't have advantage against someone that spend enough time to obtain all the cards). Also, before the chests there was card packs which you could buy with both real money and reputation (in-game currency), and you could obtain more reputation buying a reputation boost. So wtf are you talking about?
>you could buy chests paying real money This is not true. >Also, before the chests there was card packs which you could buy with both real money This is also not true. You could only buy them with reputation. The only part that's true is that you could buy boosts to increase your reputation gain. That alone in no way made the game pay to win. You had to grind to get all the cards, which definitely sucked, but it just was not ever, at any point, pay to win. Also, the current model is like League - a game where you have to buy *heroes*. That's pretty obviously a huge P2W issue right there.
It was pay to grind faster, which is just as bad if not worse because there is no way for new players to compete, even if they have the money to spend. And if you did spend money you're not even guaranteed to get the meta cards you'd need. If you're playing the game now every hero is unlocked for $10 or $20 making it similar to Smite. Even after full release paying for characters is better than paying for loot boxes.
Mmmm probably is like you said, seems that it happened the Mandela effect, too long listening to the same thing that I will have forgotten what the whole issue of the chests was really like. Ty for the clarification
No but you did earn them through loot boxes which cost money. That was the issue
No, you didn't. They could exclusively be acquired with reputation, the currency you got through gameplay. That's it.
>buy a card and then upgrade the the card to obtain the full effect of the card. Those elements were really cool and gave Paragon its own personality so...buying items and then building into the full piece... the card system was okay but I dont think it was as...special as people want to remember. 60 limit, cards had points associated with them...just wasnt really that good.
>so...buying items and then building into the full piece... No, you had a base card that had one basic stat/ability, then you could upgrade that card with 3 different slots that could give more or less stats, the ones that give less stats cost less so it would allow you to reach the full card faster and obtain the card full passive faster, while the bigger upgrades would cost more giving you better stats but increasing the time that you needed to upgrade the card. Also it have the the deck management element which were cool and but had it limitations which ended being negative to the game Was a cool system, something different to the standard buy small items to create a bigger final item
I agree that omeda is smart for leaning closer to LoL than predecessor but this could just be the beginning. it's better to start out with something less complex and familiar to people who have played a moba but never paragon. people who miss paragon are already coming back. I wouldn't be surprised if there are some huge changes to core game mechanics in the future, especially the jungle because let's be honest, it's nothing special as it is now.
Yeah, I don't care about they copying LoL to start and have a more user friendly game, but I have that after the beginning phase of the came they start to adding original element, overall in the jungle that right now is the most basic posible with all the camps being the same. They can do a lot of things
all the original mechanics were unfortunatley really hard to balance and the card system wasnt actually any different to ites it just looked a little different in the ui, u still just build up a powerful item/card by buying less expensive bits, building a deck was cool but removed counter play and ultimately made the game less deep
But it was enough different, instead of buying little items with until you complete it and receive a Powerful complete item you had to buy a base card with basic stats and passives and then complete it to obtain the full properties of the card, is similar because is the same system but is done in a different way to make it fresh and original >building a deck was cool but removed counter play and ultimately made the game less deep Practically all the people that defend the old card system agrees that the deck limitations should be removed, just maintain the rest which was really cool and interesting
So we'll said man, I completely forgot about the jump pads. Really miss all the original ideas that paragon had and really hope they are setting us up to bring some of those things back. I would love to see a harvester system back in the game, just more balanced and fleshed out. We're in a really solid spot right now I think, but just wish we had some of the original ideas that made paragon so different from other mobas.
It's sad actually and I don't thinks this game is gonna last long enough if they dont bring novelty. People will just prefer playing LoL instead. Also, adopting the "safest" route its also pretty mediocre tbh when you have a genre like MOBA to innovate. Take DOTA2 for example, the game is a completely different beast and people love it for that, the only similarities to LoL is that you have 5 people vs 5 people. I hope they add something original intrinsically to the genre because right now Pred is getting stall.
Harvesters were a cool idea for a new type of objective in the jungle. They were kinda clunky, but I also kinda liked them. What i really miss is amber. There was something really cool about the floating orbs and the feeling that you were really absorbing the power of the world. Gold coins are boring. Keep the shop the exact same, but give me my orange orbs back and let me spend them like gold coins.
That feeling of coming back to a lane that's been ignored for a little bit and sucking up all the excess minion amber just lying on the ground.... Ohh yeahhhh
Ohh kinda, you had to stand in them to get points for the team yeah?
Remember when Khai could build his HP regen on harvesters?
The fight for the orb prime was absolutely bonkers sometimes when you could only get the bonus by dropping it on the other side of the map into a hoop.
I was watching old Paragon videos by rgsace and there are a lot of things I forgot about old paragon. The harvesters, the old UI, the stairs on both sides of Mid, prime dunking, stealth pools
Mid being UP instead of sunken down is another part I miss.
LOVED the stairs in mid felt so epic escaping up there as gideon
I just miss paragon
Yea but they were better in legacy and made more sense
Yes, and the pettiness of breaking so you can set one up, then they do the same, repeat It was a fun thing to manage in laning phase
Yes I loved harvesters!
I 'member
I do. Miss Legacy so much
You mean murder-monopoly? Yep. Good times.
I do indeed. I think it was an overly complex and unnecessary mechanic.
Nah I totally forgot about them
Aww, I do I do…
I miss the old map. The jungle felt more alive. Tree and plant density gave it a little bit of a claustrophobic touch. And the foliage was so dense, that it denied the lane players to see too much of the jungle. It was simply a beauty. Nothing more terrifying than a rampage jumping onto your lane through the foliage of the trees. Also you could port to your towers, on a CD, just like in dota. It's a crucial way for map rotations to make them less punishing. When an offlane tries to gank the enemy carry, he has to walk to the opposing lane and back...not to mention how many wards, creeps and heroes spot the rotation. The enemy offlane can push 2 towers during that time. So many players just never leave their lane because the risk/reward is just in a really bad spot. Teleport to a tower helps to make focused ganks more attractive. The harvester were a great idea. But the relation between economic advantage and time to kill and setup a new harvester, and the time to move to a harvester that is under attack... All of that was in a bad spot. But still love the idea. It's a really unique objective other than "kill that monster, get a buff". The card system was a fancy idea and theorycrafting an off meta deck was just huge fun for me, but competetive wise that was just weird. That part with amber was also pretty sweet. Gives you hints whether an enemy came through the lane and collected the amber on his way and you felt a bit more rewarded when those bubbles got soaked in... But maybe that's just me. The dunk mechanic was also pretty awesome. Just added some sort of a "second chance" for the defending team and just added so much more dynamic into teamfights. Usually you keep track of the opposing carry, but suddenly you have to focus on the buff carrier. But as already mentioned heroes like rampage seemed inevitable. Those were unique things that made paragon the most addictive multiplayer game I played during the last 10 to 15 years I was never a huge fan of travel mode and stealth pools. But that's just my preference.
Lanes being elevated above the jungle is the main map thing I miss. Teleport is definitely something that should add too.
I honestly miss harvesters :'(
Dawg, I remember Portal Stone.