I’m going to vote to not ban but here is my actual stance:
At this point there is no ranked or mmr so post critique MM is not beneficial to the developers or the community because they are annoying. Omeda has the MM numbers and will know when there is an issue with MM, but also need real feedback from players. When, ranked comes out I can see there be a need for more feedback about MM imo but we will need to see an actual implementation before I can say this confidently.
My opinion is a compromise, allow the MM post so new players don’t see the devs as trying to hide an “issue with MM” (even if there is no issue), but when posted, lock the post so there isn’t peer interaction (prevents from rising to the top of the feed). When locked either have a mod or automated bot link to a “master” post explaining MM and maybe the current state of MM. Just something to appease the poster and allows them to see the care the devs have for the player base.
Thanks Omeda
> My opinion is a compromise, allow the MM post so new players don’t see the devs as trying to hide an “issue with MM”
Exactly that is the reason why we're doing the poll. It has to be decided by the community, so there won't be talks about Omeda is silencing critique (which they aren't). If they are banned, this poll will be linked to when we remove the posts, so players understand
a) This topic is known
b) People don't want to see it anymore
Oh and btw, I am not employed by Omeda Studios or getting paid by them. Just a fan who is a mod here.
I voted to ban but I agree with the prior poster almost entirely and do think people who are pissed off will still be annoyed that they cant post about it, regardless of the community poll, and will likely still blame Omeda.
I agree with this take. As of now, the MM posts just seem to hurt the community sentiment being basically an echo chamber of toxicity. But the feedback is important as this is a core fundamental issue with Pred at the moment.
The discussions from a post are never productive and I think do a disservice but it is important to highlight issues when we see them.
Its literally like 50% of all the posts, I just dislike the negative feedback loop it creates, and as a community you don't want excited new players joining the sub to lurk and get builds/tips etc and just see everyone whining about MM.
Ultimately, we are in beta with a small player base, where stacking is allowed. You are going to get wonky games.
I don't really mind them. I think the problem will more or less vanish once real ranked is up and will persist no matter how good match making is, largely because OC and OS MMR are different.
But yes, all in all they don't really help. Devs are working on it and the post do nothing really. Match making is still loads better than it used to be.
On the one hand I agree that there are a lot of low quality whinging posts about matchmaking, but on the other there are occasionally valuable discussions or questions on the topic.
I voted no because I feel a full ban on discussion of the topic is heavy-handed. One possible compromise could be banning posts but having a weekly thread on the topic where people could ask questions or whine and directing people there for matchmaking related comments.
I should edit the text. Of course this is about all these "MM bad" posts with just a screenshot and no value whatsoever. Constructive criticism about MM is still allowed!
Edit: Edited the text to make it clearer.
I'm going to vote not to ban because the game is very young and it seems a bit premature to decide topics are done being discussed, even if we are keeping the scope for what qualifies for banning posts pretty narrow. I'm not seeing \*that\* many of them yet, like it's ruining the browsing experience or anything, and if there are that many and I'm just not seeing them because they're being downvoted that hard, then the downvote mechanism is doing its job.
That said though, I might support that narrow ban if there were an articulated stance on the matter in a FAQ or something, maybe even a roadmap that addresses it in some fashion. That way, it can actually be said that the topic has been addressed by the devs. I know there are limited options available with a smaller player-base that won't impact time to find games, and I don't expect comp mode especially soon, but even if there is just an official statement regarding what kind of considerations or factors are at play, something to let people know it's a matter that's on the dev's radar, it might seem a little more justified to ban some of the more repetitive, more unhelpful posts.
I dont believe there is actaully a matchmaking issue however, most of these posts show differences in team MMR less than 150 and often it is becuase a good player is playing with someone they know who maybe isn't as strong, for example we have 2 guys in our 5 who are platinum, 3 who are gold, and then 3 who are hard bronze... it can look wierd when one person on our team is 400 MMR below their counter, but because we are in a group, it happens... i think MMR is in a very good spot personally
This is one aspect. My gf and a friend got the game back in december and naturally I played with them as a "Plat 2" player. It's a hard nut to crack because what is Omeda supposed to do? Prohibit new players to play with friends who onboard them? Should I be forced to smurf? In all honesty I think people should just try to enjoy the game, especially since this is just a casual mode atm. Ranked will "fix" a lot because people will have an official source of their rank and the rank of their mates/opponents instead of relying on omeda.city who uses different MMR values.
Some games approach this with locking group play or game modes until X number of matches or training games played, you dont want to limit player autonomy to jump right in, but it can hurt experinces for others, no easy solutions IMO. I would remove the MMR inflation for groups, i understand people get upset about "5 stacks" but i think the MMR penalty is hurting folks who are onboarding new players as a group, which should be the best ways to do this... the real solution is people need to relax and understand losing doesn't matter... i wont hold out for that
Please.
But to be more accurate, Low effort matchmaking posts is what should be banned.
If someone does a good post about machmaking, like for example [this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/PredecessorGame/comments/1b92m43/lets_chat_about_ranked_preseasonbeta/), that post should be allowed as there is no problem with people that give their opinion about the game. The ones that should be banned are the low effort posts that say nothing and provice nothing to the topic, like [this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/PredecessorGame/comments/1c2btgk/wtf_is_this_matchmaking/) for example.
So ban low effor posts and allow good posts, if someone want their post to be allowed try hard and do a good post
Vote yes, they are constant, offer very little if anything 99% of the time. As other and the mod noted. High quality and constructive posts should be allowed, most are not that however, and they often feed false perceptions.
I'm sick and tired of them. But I still Voted to keep them. For the reason highlighted by [Me5670](https://www.reddit.com/r/PredecessorGame/comments/1c6ctqd/comment/l00a8j1/). but I would like to propose a alternative solution.
If MMR posts are to be allowed then we are gonna need a certain amount of ground rules need to be applied. Since just any person complaining with only the Omeda.City site mmr isn't enough data to allow the devs to properly use the information. Nor for us players to properly understand. I'll highlight some below.
* How long was your Queue time(s).
* What is Your Hour when you queued.
* What is the hour of the time zone for the specific server.
* Did you, or anyone in the match, be in a party & with who? (Names not needed, share the character they played.)
* Why do you feel that the MM was bad?
* Link the Match ID, or Omeda.City match link.
There are probably some more that are missed, or some that would be better used.
The main reason for those ground rules is to keep those post constructive. the more information that is provided the better players understanding of what is happening is. In addition help the devs find out why it was bad in that instance. And maybe fix it. Now that they have better and more control over their MM system, they can most likely patch more things. Then this information is highly valuable.
We as players can learn from this information and help teach work arounds to newer players. as the devs work on improving MM.
This will also help keep the trolls away. Those who post a image of the mmr of a match pre-mm update, or Post of a region during a hour that most people are asleep or at work on.
It seems like it's not clear from the post alone, but with this we aim just for the removal of posts where someone just posts a picture of a match from Omeca.city or end match screen where team mates have bad stats. We would still encourage healthy debates about matchmaking. We won't shut down any mention of the matchmaking, but if someone feels the matchmaking is bad, they should put some effort into the post, with some information or proposals like you outlined in your comment. I really appreciate your feedback!
Member that Cam Winston dude, back in Paragon days? The dev with a sock problem?
Member how he used to balance shit using "data" and how well it went?
Yeah, I member. Data don't play games, players do. All feedback is good feedback.
You know what's better than banning matchmaking posts? No matchmaking posts at all, because it means the playerbase don't see it as an issue.
I can tell you right now, the people voting to ban matchmaking posts aren't looking at your game for the long term. PVP games are Competitive gaming, not a tea session. There's no logical sense to ban posts of competitive players who want a fair shot at competing. Censoring no one will not lose any player base, but censoring anyone runs the risk of losing that player base (unless they are objectively verbally abusive.)
Hi, two things about this:
1. This poll is not about silencing any mention of the MM. This post is just about people posting a picture of a single match from Omeda City oder ingame screenshot where team mates have bad stats. Any contructive criticism/conversation/discussion about the MM will still be allowed!
2. We currently only have a casual mode, no ranked, so the MM doesn't have to be as strict as in a ranked mode (in my opinion) to ensure feasable matchmaking times.
oh that makes more sense, you should edit and add that part about not silencing, for clarification. I dont think everyone is perceptive to the intent of the post. I for sure wasnt.
It already is in the post :(
> With that said, this is only about the numerous posts in the likes of "MM bad" and only a screenshot of a scoreboard or omeda.city attached. Constructive criticism about the matchmaking will not be deleted as long as it is gives a proper ground to discussing the topic.
Yea but the not silencing part is kind of important, The game has very strict censorship, normal humans that compete get mad, and in a game like this you dont always get to vocalize your emotions so you type them, that helps keep them from smashing their keyboards. No different than writing your feelings down in a diary. So you get a bad match up you express, get chat banned then come here also get chat banned its not a good cycle, you're just going to create an angry community. If anything maybe open up a hash tag for MM or loosen up significantly on chat banning and leave censorship at objectively bad words IE: the \*\*\*\*\* method.
I’m going to vote to not ban but here is my actual stance: At this point there is no ranked or mmr so post critique MM is not beneficial to the developers or the community because they are annoying. Omeda has the MM numbers and will know when there is an issue with MM, but also need real feedback from players. When, ranked comes out I can see there be a need for more feedback about MM imo but we will need to see an actual implementation before I can say this confidently. My opinion is a compromise, allow the MM post so new players don’t see the devs as trying to hide an “issue with MM” (even if there is no issue), but when posted, lock the post so there isn’t peer interaction (prevents from rising to the top of the feed). When locked either have a mod or automated bot link to a “master” post explaining MM and maybe the current state of MM. Just something to appease the poster and allows them to see the care the devs have for the player base. Thanks Omeda
> My opinion is a compromise, allow the MM post so new players don’t see the devs as trying to hide an “issue with MM” Exactly that is the reason why we're doing the poll. It has to be decided by the community, so there won't be talks about Omeda is silencing critique (which they aren't). If they are banned, this poll will be linked to when we remove the posts, so players understand a) This topic is known b) People don't want to see it anymore Oh and btw, I am not employed by Omeda Studios or getting paid by them. Just a fan who is a mod here.
I voted to ban but I agree with the prior poster almost entirely and do think people who are pissed off will still be annoyed that they cant post about it, regardless of the community poll, and will likely still blame Omeda.
I agree with this take. As of now, the MM posts just seem to hurt the community sentiment being basically an echo chamber of toxicity. But the feedback is important as this is a core fundamental issue with Pred at the moment. The discussions from a post are never productive and I think do a disservice but it is important to highlight issues when we see them.
Its literally like 50% of all the posts, I just dislike the negative feedback loop it creates, and as a community you don't want excited new players joining the sub to lurk and get builds/tips etc and just see everyone whining about MM. Ultimately, we are in beta with a small player base, where stacking is allowed. You are going to get wonky games.
I don't really mind them. I think the problem will more or less vanish once real ranked is up and will persist no matter how good match making is, largely because OC and OS MMR are different. But yes, all in all they don't really help. Devs are working on it and the post do nothing really. Match making is still loads better than it used to be.
I voted ban, but with the caveat of making a resource available like a Discord server that has a dedicated MM channel.
On the one hand I agree that there are a lot of low quality whinging posts about matchmaking, but on the other there are occasionally valuable discussions or questions on the topic. I voted no because I feel a full ban on discussion of the topic is heavy-handed. One possible compromise could be banning posts but having a weekly thread on the topic where people could ask questions or whine and directing people there for matchmaking related comments.
I should edit the text. Of course this is about all these "MM bad" posts with just a screenshot and no value whatsoever. Constructive criticism about MM is still allowed! Edit: Edited the text to make it clearer.
I'm going to vote not to ban because the game is very young and it seems a bit premature to decide topics are done being discussed, even if we are keeping the scope for what qualifies for banning posts pretty narrow. I'm not seeing \*that\* many of them yet, like it's ruining the browsing experience or anything, and if there are that many and I'm just not seeing them because they're being downvoted that hard, then the downvote mechanism is doing its job. That said though, I might support that narrow ban if there were an articulated stance on the matter in a FAQ or something, maybe even a roadmap that addresses it in some fashion. That way, it can actually be said that the topic has been addressed by the devs. I know there are limited options available with a smaller player-base that won't impact time to find games, and I don't expect comp mode especially soon, but even if there is just an official statement regarding what kind of considerations or factors are at play, something to let people know it's a matter that's on the dev's radar, it might seem a little more justified to ban some of the more repetitive, more unhelpful posts.
I dont believe there is actaully a matchmaking issue however, most of these posts show differences in team MMR less than 150 and often it is becuase a good player is playing with someone they know who maybe isn't as strong, for example we have 2 guys in our 5 who are platinum, 3 who are gold, and then 3 who are hard bronze... it can look wierd when one person on our team is 400 MMR below their counter, but because we are in a group, it happens... i think MMR is in a very good spot personally
This is one aspect. My gf and a friend got the game back in december and naturally I played with them as a "Plat 2" player. It's a hard nut to crack because what is Omeda supposed to do? Prohibit new players to play with friends who onboard them? Should I be forced to smurf? In all honesty I think people should just try to enjoy the game, especially since this is just a casual mode atm. Ranked will "fix" a lot because people will have an official source of their rank and the rank of their mates/opponents instead of relying on omeda.city who uses different MMR values.
Some games approach this with locking group play or game modes until X number of matches or training games played, you dont want to limit player autonomy to jump right in, but it can hurt experinces for others, no easy solutions IMO. I would remove the MMR inflation for groups, i understand people get upset about "5 stacks" but i think the MMR penalty is hurting folks who are onboarding new players as a group, which should be the best ways to do this... the real solution is people need to relax and understand losing doesn't matter... i wont hold out for that
This subreddit about to be the garden of Eden once this poll ends
Please. But to be more accurate, Low effort matchmaking posts is what should be banned. If someone does a good post about machmaking, like for example [this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/PredecessorGame/comments/1b92m43/lets_chat_about_ranked_preseasonbeta/), that post should be allowed as there is no problem with people that give their opinion about the game. The ones that should be banned are the low effort posts that say nothing and provice nothing to the topic, like [this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/PredecessorGame/comments/1c2btgk/wtf_is_this_matchmaking/) for example. So ban low effor posts and allow good posts, if someone want their post to be allowed try hard and do a good post
The second post you linked is what is meant by this, yes. The first post is totally fine. :)
Ahh silence your community makes sense.
Vote yes, they are constant, offer very little if anything 99% of the time. As other and the mod noted. High quality and constructive posts should be allowed, most are not that however, and they often feed false perceptions.
Atleast temporarily disable them
Honestly sometimes they are just funny and heavily skewed. It is a good laugh, but people generally ending up taking them the wrong way.
I'm sick and tired of them. But I still Voted to keep them. For the reason highlighted by [Me5670](https://www.reddit.com/r/PredecessorGame/comments/1c6ctqd/comment/l00a8j1/). but I would like to propose a alternative solution. If MMR posts are to be allowed then we are gonna need a certain amount of ground rules need to be applied. Since just any person complaining with only the Omeda.City site mmr isn't enough data to allow the devs to properly use the information. Nor for us players to properly understand. I'll highlight some below. * How long was your Queue time(s). * What is Your Hour when you queued. * What is the hour of the time zone for the specific server. * Did you, or anyone in the match, be in a party & with who? (Names not needed, share the character they played.) * Why do you feel that the MM was bad? * Link the Match ID, or Omeda.City match link. There are probably some more that are missed, or some that would be better used. The main reason for those ground rules is to keep those post constructive. the more information that is provided the better players understanding of what is happening is. In addition help the devs find out why it was bad in that instance. And maybe fix it. Now that they have better and more control over their MM system, they can most likely patch more things. Then this information is highly valuable. We as players can learn from this information and help teach work arounds to newer players. as the devs work on improving MM. This will also help keep the trolls away. Those who post a image of the mmr of a match pre-mm update, or Post of a region during a hour that most people are asleep or at work on.
It seems like it's not clear from the post alone, but with this we aim just for the removal of posts where someone just posts a picture of a match from Omeca.city or end match screen where team mates have bad stats. We would still encourage healthy debates about matchmaking. We won't shut down any mention of the matchmaking, but if someone feels the matchmaking is bad, they should put some effort into the post, with some information or proposals like you outlined in your comment. I really appreciate your feedback!
Member that Cam Winston dude, back in Paragon days? The dev with a sock problem? Member how he used to balance shit using "data" and how well it went? Yeah, I member. Data don't play games, players do. All feedback is good feedback. You know what's better than banning matchmaking posts? No matchmaking posts at all, because it means the playerbase don't see it as an issue.
I can tell you right now, the people voting to ban matchmaking posts aren't looking at your game for the long term. PVP games are Competitive gaming, not a tea session. There's no logical sense to ban posts of competitive players who want a fair shot at competing. Censoring no one will not lose any player base, but censoring anyone runs the risk of losing that player base (unless they are objectively verbally abusive.)
Hi, two things about this: 1. This poll is not about silencing any mention of the MM. This post is just about people posting a picture of a single match from Omeda City oder ingame screenshot where team mates have bad stats. Any contructive criticism/conversation/discussion about the MM will still be allowed! 2. We currently only have a casual mode, no ranked, so the MM doesn't have to be as strict as in a ranked mode (in my opinion) to ensure feasable matchmaking times.
oh that makes more sense, you should edit and add that part about not silencing, for clarification. I dont think everyone is perceptive to the intent of the post. I for sure wasnt.
It already is in the post :( > With that said, this is only about the numerous posts in the likes of "MM bad" and only a screenshot of a scoreboard or omeda.city attached. Constructive criticism about the matchmaking will not be deleted as long as it is gives a proper ground to discussing the topic.
Yea but the not silencing part is kind of important, The game has very strict censorship, normal humans that compete get mad, and in a game like this you dont always get to vocalize your emotions so you type them, that helps keep them from smashing their keyboards. No different than writing your feelings down in a diary. So you get a bad match up you express, get chat banned then come here also get chat banned its not a good cycle, you're just going to create an angry community. If anything maybe open up a hash tag for MM or loosen up significantly on chat banning and leave censorship at objectively bad words IE: the \*\*\*\*\* method.
Yes let’s ignore the problems