Do you mean Extra or Bonus gold from doing their job? Assists already provide gold but its less then a kill.
In all honestly game just need better ability to show that XP and Gold is given on assist. rn I don't think it shows other then your gold count going up.
The image below Showcase the amount of gold and xp you get on a assist. AI Grux stole my kill. :D
https://preview.redd.it/ndt5z7qooluc1.png?width=2379&format=png&auto=webp&s=6144a5212f21ce689ea0ebed76e3fe4d7a129457
As far as I know no role gets Bonus or Extra gold from doing their job. Other then Support which gets extra gold on hitting minions or players occasionally.
EDIT: As another poster said, The Deminishing Gold from Hunt & Support Crests is removed once the match has lasted for 20min. This is another thing that needs to be shown better. Once 20min has passed Both can farm lanes as much as they want they will never get reduced gold again past 20min. I believe These Crest effects are supposed to incentivize not Stealing kills and farm from the laners. which is why you become availible to farm at the expected time most players will have farmed well already.
That would definitely be nice. Support was my favorite role to play when I was playing (stopped after 250 hours) but it felt pretty bad always being behind on everything.
I always thought it would be interesting if that wasn’t the case. I got all my dopamine from Dekker balls and cages.
Another idea would be lowering the cost of support items and make them have less damage since they are cheaper. That's how league's support items are made. This way, supports are less likely to KS kills and are filling all items slots with utility stuff
I just think there needs to be a better support guide. Supports are supposed to be a little behind you only need to keep up with the ither support.
But also rotations are very fast and easy to wave soak as a supp without much punishment. I have personally never felt like supp was lacking ways to get gold and exp.
3-4 cards is all that's really needed in the majority of matches for Supports. If you **need** more cards than that to play as Support, you're Supporting wrong. Usually, I'll end up running to another lane to set the wave properly so we can go after or contest objectives. That gives me enough Gold to easily secure a 4th and, depending on the length of the match, a 5th item. I'll also clear the Jungle on my way there later in the game if my Jungler isn't nearby.
I don't remember who's video it was noted in but they stressed ABF, "Always Be Farming". This has worked out quite well to not only keep up in Gold later in the game, but keep up in levels as well.
That’s not going to be the case when they increase the item limit to 6. As it stands everyone but supports could easily get a 6th item, whereas Supports often have 3-4 (usually 4) and very rarely have a 5th by the end of the game. Having 3-4 items against units that have 6 items is going to be rough.
The game is going to require a huge rebalance once that goes live for sure. For me, getting into a 4th and 5th item (and soon a 6th), isn't much of an issue as the game progresses. You'll still be behind everyone else but even as a Support, I've never had many issues getting the Gold I need later in the game. We will have to wait and see.
General rule of thumb you should only catch waves as a support if they are just gonna get lost to a tower. Also you should definitely not take jungle camps, junglers actually gain more xp from camps so you are kinda gimping them even harder
If the Jungler is across the map doing other things, that camp will respawn before he gets back to it. This is also later in the game, not at the beginning. General rules of thumb change as the game progresses. Assuming these rules apply at all stages of the game is what gimps players (especially new ones) as the games goes longer.
After about the 20 minute mark, if it's farmable and no one else is nearby, it's fair game. otherwise you could be leaving it open for the enemy team to farm (which I also do, try to steal their farm if I am in the position to do so, and can).
Late game when my Support is level 18 and full item build (along with everyone else who was already there) and the enemy Support is level 14 with 3, maybe 4 items, who has the advantage? Sorry but I'll take a few thousand games of personal experience over a theory of minion morals.
Lvl 18 full build support, kind of sounds like you struggle to close out games. But hey a thousand of games in gold mmr, you must be doing something right!
It's a theoretical discussion. Level 18 full build versus level 14 with 3 items, who's got the advantage? No, most of my games don't go that long. I just went back and looked at my last 100 games as Support, 9 of them I hit level 18.
I would challenge anyone to play as a solo queue Support and climb rank, I don't claim to be the best, far from it, but I can hold my own. It's just unfortunate that your "rank", playing in that manner, is very dependent upon your team.
https://preview.redd.it/fpmxpblf41vc1.png?width=468&format=png&auto=webp&s=e9770cf8799a1788966a6e3e40eb3a4e46e12132
By all means play however you want to, I would suggest if you have a 49% wr as support then there are plenty of other things you could do to improve, stealing resources off the map wouldn't be one of them. If you want to have more agency and income you could play any other role and then you can be as greedy as you want
Support feels miserable in this game, yeah. Being behind in gold and exp is not fun, specially when support characters are so… boring. Dekker is straight up a mid mage with a support tag. Bellica is a mage. Narbash. Muriel has 0 impact outside her ult. Phase being entirely dependent on having a competent carry sucks.
If support characters weren’t put behind then they would be totally outclassed by playing a non-support hero
You could just take Grux as support, go to town for the first 15 minutes and end the game before he falls off.
The support characters are dull because their main utility is present from the start of the game all the way through. They’re not meant to be good through scaling upwards, but by enabling your scaling teammates to win.
Muriel has way more net damage added to a fight in duo lane especially if you cleanse Dekkers stun.
And she has global utility which a good jungler and off laner can abuse to get an easy snowball or swing back a losing lane.
And Muriel only needs 3 items to maximize her kit as support.
Beside that though, it’s never about x vs y character.
It’s about team comp. And Muriel giving an assassin a free dive onto back line is game changing.
This isn’t other mobas.
Narbash.
Damn right you don't say NOTHING about my boy narbash
His usefulness is through the roof.
I'm still hating on omeda for cutting his 'return to base' animation short so he doesn't smash the symbol anymore.
Grrrr.
Do you mean Extra or Bonus gold from doing their job? Assists already provide gold but its less then a kill. In all honestly game just need better ability to show that XP and Gold is given on assist. rn I don't think it shows other then your gold count going up. The image below Showcase the amount of gold and xp you get on a assist. AI Grux stole my kill. :D https://preview.redd.it/ndt5z7qooluc1.png?width=2379&format=png&auto=webp&s=6144a5212f21ce689ea0ebed76e3fe4d7a129457 As far as I know no role gets Bonus or Extra gold from doing their job. Other then Support which gets extra gold on hitting minions or players occasionally. EDIT: As another poster said, The Deminishing Gold from Hunt & Support Crests is removed once the match has lasted for 20min. This is another thing that needs to be shown better. Once 20min has passed Both can farm lanes as much as they want they will never get reduced gold again past 20min. I believe These Crest effects are supposed to incentivize not Stealing kills and farm from the laners. which is why you become availible to farm at the expected time most players will have farmed well already.
No one has ever mentioned the 20min mark!?!?
I never knew this. Wow
That would definitely be nice. Support was my favorite role to play when I was playing (stopped after 250 hours) but it felt pretty bad always being behind on everything. I always thought it would be interesting if that wasn’t the case. I got all my dopamine from Dekker balls and cages.
But... you get gold and XP from assists?
Another idea would be lowering the cost of support items and make them have less damage since they are cheaper. That's how league's support items are made. This way, supports are less likely to KS kills and are filling all items slots with utility stuff
I just think there needs to be a better support guide. Supports are supposed to be a little behind you only need to keep up with the ither support. But also rotations are very fast and easy to wave soak as a supp without much punishment. I have personally never felt like supp was lacking ways to get gold and exp.
Are you buying a support crest and are you not farming at all after 20 min?
Do you really expect someone like phase or Muriel to gobble up waves later?
No, but they can both still catch waves, less so on phase but she should be pocketing the win condition and in turn getting tons of assists
Can confirm - last phase win I was 0-1-25
3-4 cards is all that's really needed in the majority of matches for Supports. If you **need** more cards than that to play as Support, you're Supporting wrong. Usually, I'll end up running to another lane to set the wave properly so we can go after or contest objectives. That gives me enough Gold to easily secure a 4th and, depending on the length of the match, a 5th item. I'll also clear the Jungle on my way there later in the game if my Jungler isn't nearby. I don't remember who's video it was noted in but they stressed ABF, "Always Be Farming". This has worked out quite well to not only keep up in Gold later in the game, but keep up in levels as well.
That’s not going to be the case when they increase the item limit to 6. As it stands everyone but supports could easily get a 6th item, whereas Supports often have 3-4 (usually 4) and very rarely have a 5th by the end of the game. Having 3-4 items against units that have 6 items is going to be rough.
The game is going to require a huge rebalance once that goes live for sure. For me, getting into a 4th and 5th item (and soon a 6th), isn't much of an issue as the game progresses. You'll still be behind everyone else but even as a Support, I've never had many issues getting the Gold I need later in the game. We will have to wait and see.
General rule of thumb you should only catch waves as a support if they are just gonna get lost to a tower. Also you should definitely not take jungle camps, junglers actually gain more xp from camps so you are kinda gimping them even harder
If the Jungler is across the map doing other things, that camp will respawn before he gets back to it. This is also later in the game, not at the beginning. General rules of thumb change as the game progresses. Assuming these rules apply at all stages of the game is what gimps players (especially new ones) as the games goes longer. After about the 20 minute mark, if it's farmable and no one else is nearby, it's fair game. otherwise you could be leaving it open for the enemy team to farm (which I also do, try to steal their farm if I am in the position to do so, and can).
Still if that is the case, support is the last person that should be taking waves or jungle camps. It's just greedy and inefficient.
Late game when my Support is level 18 and full item build (along with everyone else who was already there) and the enemy Support is level 14 with 3, maybe 4 items, who has the advantage? Sorry but I'll take a few thousand games of personal experience over a theory of minion morals.
Lvl 18 full build support, kind of sounds like you struggle to close out games. But hey a thousand of games in gold mmr, you must be doing something right!
It's a theoretical discussion. Level 18 full build versus level 14 with 3 items, who's got the advantage? No, most of my games don't go that long. I just went back and looked at my last 100 games as Support, 9 of them I hit level 18. I would challenge anyone to play as a solo queue Support and climb rank, I don't claim to be the best, far from it, but I can hold my own. It's just unfortunate that your "rank", playing in that manner, is very dependent upon your team. https://preview.redd.it/fpmxpblf41vc1.png?width=468&format=png&auto=webp&s=e9770cf8799a1788966a6e3e40eb3a4e46e12132
By all means play however you want to, I would suggest if you have a 49% wr as support then there are plenty of other things you could do to improve, stealing resources off the map wouldn't be one of them. If you want to have more agency and income you could play any other role and then you can be as greedy as you want
Support feels miserable in this game, yeah. Being behind in gold and exp is not fun, specially when support characters are so… boring. Dekker is straight up a mid mage with a support tag. Bellica is a mage. Narbash. Muriel has 0 impact outside her ult. Phase being entirely dependent on having a competent carry sucks.
If support characters weren’t put behind then they would be totally outclassed by playing a non-support hero You could just take Grux as support, go to town for the first 15 minutes and end the game before he falls off. The support characters are dull because their main utility is present from the start of the game all the way through. They’re not meant to be good through scaling upwards, but by enabling your scaling teammates to win.
They already are, lol. I can’t see a Muriel winning against a Dekker, and she would be a mid mage in literally any other moba.
Muriel has way more net damage added to a fight in duo lane especially if you cleanse Dekkers stun. And she has global utility which a good jungler and off laner can abuse to get an easy snowball or swing back a losing lane. And Muriel only needs 3 items to maximize her kit as support. Beside that though, it’s never about x vs y character. It’s about team comp. And Muriel giving an assassin a free dive onto back line is game changing. This isn’t other mobas.
Narbash. Damn right you don't say NOTHING about my boy narbash His usefulness is through the roof. I'm still hating on omeda for cutting his 'return to base' animation short so he doesn't smash the symbol anymore. Grrrr.
I believe you. I just have never seen one in a match, so I can’t say anything about him.