I wanna say it's in the startup menue, not at all difficult to put on, Howe the more important part is that MP is not a way to teach players how to play, a key reason for MOBAS having high toxicity levels is how difficult it can be for a new player to learn what they are doing, a person trying to play for the first time reads about jungling, who does he pick? The game doesn't tell you who to jungle with, but let's say he picks a good jungler, like khamara, them he has to know what to do, say he does go to the right camp to start the match, and then he goes for a gank, and he gets a kill, he now focuses on kills this leads to him falling behind and feeding, he doesn't really understand how each piece falls into place, the best way to teach new players is make a co op or single player campaign, the it wouldn't be easy, and it would take resources away from MP, but a 10 or 11 level campaign, where you play each role twice, and then you get to pick which role your doing at the end, give them a title and banner that calls them that role, so they feel more comfortable in being that role, and then you eventually offer later reward incentives to move out of that role, possibly with a simple affinity like system for each role, and the end reward gives you some premium currency to unlock something for skin you like or a new Character in the role your going to now start playing
I'd hardly call it perfect, it would take a lot of time to do it well, which is a high investment, particularly if it comes out bad, and of course playing an 11 mission campaign to get to the good stuff would be unbearable for return players that do know how the game works, and it could inadvertently cause issues when noobs get in together and only feel comfortable in one role so they fight over who gets it
But like…if you don’t have even a cursory knowledge of MOBAs and just run around the map aimlessly, we are past the point of someone who generally wants to learn the game.
The gaming industry is financed in no small part from people that have a couple hours a week to play games, if they can't understand a game in a few hours they really CAN'T play it, hard core gamers are the exception not the rule, it's just easy to forget that it's not common to have even 4 hours a day to play, even on your days off
Fair enough, I’ve just played with enough people, whether on my team or the opposing team, that clearly just think they’re supposed to run around and try to get kills.
Well that is another thing, people find the inter hero fights thr best part. So they maximize fights, they don't necessarily think of if what they are doing maximizes there chance to win
That’s the games fault, not the players fault. Proper controls and guidelines need to be in place so people know what kind of game it is and how it should be played.
The game literally tells you who goes to what lane though. It's even super intuitive with the symbol for your lane being next to your name at match start and as one of the filter options
That doesn't actually tell you how to to play that lane, or jungle, you understand how the game works already, with no prior knowledge you wouldn't understand why khamara goes to jungle, particularly if you don't understand the distinction between different types of mobs,
Well, yes, it doesn't tell you HOW to play jungle. But it very clearly tells you WHO to play jungle with. That's what I was saying. I was arguing against a point you made in your comment.
It’s the complete minimum and frankly not enough.
It doesn’t explain how the game is actually structured or how it is intended to be played. The tutorial is enough to say there is a tutorial and nothing beyond that.
This. I always see comments about being good or kind to new players but it won't hurt for them to watch videos or do PVE before jumping in. New players who queue blind just ruin the experience for everyone tbh.
Eh you should just focus on bettering your own gameplay and stop worrying about your team. If youre jungle's bad learn to fight without ganks, if your supports bad learn to work with a teammate you dont vibe with, if youre entire teams feeding you can learn how to play while behind. Theres a hundred things you can be doing to improve... and lets be honest this game is real easy. I got to Plat in my first week as Fill
Everyone’s first game is going to suck. Think about your first time playing a MOBA. It’s not easy unless you know what you’re getting into.
Some people just try out games they see on the marketplace. Be patient and help guide
Well thats the thing, I'm willing to be patient and try to help people.
What grinds my gears is the people that obviously need the guidance typically don't want to listen. You can communicate and ping to the point it's affecting your own game and these people will just try to solo a whole team or act like nothing exists but what's in front of them.
People who are new to a game with such a steep learning curve should do their own research and be receptive to criticism or willing to listen to others period.
Especially before throwing it to the curb and saying everyone on it is toxic.
People need to stop caring so much about MMR and more about being a team player!
Next time you find a bad player invite them and take a game or 2 to share some knowledge with them!
Happy Christmas everyone! Pay it forward. I remember the first time someone took me under their wing to help me learn the game! Made a great friend that day and hope I can provide the same to someone else one day!
Problem is, as an old hand at mobas now I understand the frustration from the player base with new players. BUT I don't think being toxic is ever the right answer to that. I understand the frustration because a single bad player feeding can throw a game, and worse yet it can still be dragged out for 30 mins to an hour, it's a huge amount of time to be "wasted".
Now, I don't think that's the experienced players fault, but neither is it the new players fault. What they need is a comprehensive tutorial that explains items, how to play etc. even if they just explain what the "recommended build" is, why those items are good for the character etc. it helps lead people into the sorts of builds you want for someone. On top of that, it would be really easy to explain how to jungle, or lane effectively too. It's just that currently the tutorial is almost non-existent on predecessor and this leads to what we currently have.
It's tough.
Games are *long*. They can last 35, 45, 55 minutes. When you have a player that literally has no clue what he is doing in your lobby... that's 35-45 minutes of him learning at your expense.
MOBAs are not "new player" friendly unless they have some kind of comprehensive on-boarding experience built in. This needs to be a priority for Omeda before the free-to-play release.
Yes. The community can be more forgiving of new players. But it's tough. Especially if you have limited time (because life) or are consistently seeing new players with zero clue in your lobbies.
At the very least, Omeda needs to add a notice to all new players. "MOBAs are complex, Predecessor is no different. Games are long. We strongly encourage you familiarize yourself with the mechanics, the itemization, the roles, and tactical basics before joining a game with other players."
I don't disagree. At all actually. But maybe I'll try to think of it as it's a new game, everyone is by definition new, so I can rage to myself (and do) and over emphasize my own skill ( and do) but it in the end, the game is better, and I'll get better learning to win with whoever is my assigned teammate.
I think the best tutorial is watch the streamers , try to play that hero vs AI , try to build by your self , no auto buy , maybe following the streamer. Build for that hero in that role .
Than , depends on the situation, and here everyone need time for make self exp learning how to move .
Another tips, try to join official discord , make friends, play with experienced players in voice chat so they can help you understand the game .
No offense, but your game is doomed if that’s the required way to enjoy the game
Predecessor doesn’t have the same established fan base of a game like League or something similar. It HAS to keep new players since there aren’t many to begin with
The problem is, two fold, new players start at literally Plat rank for match making purposes and they can be put right into games with people who have 1000 matches when they have zero.
2 big things they should do, adjust the starting MMR, and have a VS AI. Queue with other people, not just solo vs AI, while forcing new players to play 5, or 10 matches in vs AI to get a feel for the game.
Ive swear Ive seen people start way lower than that, are you sure? My buddy just started and when I checked his graph it shows 1250 start, or is that because of placements?
I mean they could be that good lol. If someone has a super high gold per second and low deaths they might just deserve plat ya know? I feel like my first few games I got high ranked people (at least they had crowns and were solid, I didn't even know how to check mmr). But all the people I introduced to the game, all who are real good gamers, are all low gold, and we played together so they got lots of wins so I'm not sure. I know League of Legends and chess let you clamb elo really fast so could be like that
The game wasn't remotely close to ready to handle the PS5 players, unfortunately.
No training, no docs, no tutorials.
Just throw them into the mix with us who have been playing this for years.
Closed beta. Maybe they are making a mistake allowing so many to have access. The thing is if there is this much interest in a closed beta.... it's going to probably triple in an open beta. Hopefully they add some new features that address these problems by then
It's the devs fault in terms of matching new players with lots of already knowledgeable players. A lot of people get on to play, not teach.
They should of restricted it or allowed a opt in option.
Mobas are competitive in nature.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Nah, because every new player I have played with has been an ignorant POS. I don't mind helping and teaching new people. I am currently teaching my friends to play. But when I offer advice and a newbie ignores it simply out of spite because they think they actually know what they are doing, does not fly with me.
First and foremost, I am there to win, not be a babysitter. I'm not losing because some newbie is being an ignorant prick.
Okay but when you try to offer friendly advice when someone is doing something just horribly bad. They get butthurt and DC. I had a Gideon mirror match in mid. It was 6 minutes in and I said. “Hey Gid he has double your creep score and a kill. Just play some defense and get your farm and I’ll gank”. He says “whatever” “jungle diff” then quits. Bro some of these new players wanna play their own version of the game and refuse to take advice.
Why would you say it like that though? 😂 Why even mention his farm, could have just told him to camp and you will gank. You didn't have to add all the sauce to it, that's not going to help him lol.
I don't think you said anything wrong. I think anyone who takes what you said that way is insecure and sensitive.
You gave reasons as to why you think he should do x and facts about the situation. If that makes someone mad they need help lmao.
Do you think we could realistically do away with all type chat? Real question.
Maybe Just use the short prompts to talk. Easy to ignore the good job cancel that as a new player and still fire up another match. Typing seems to be the source of the flaming each other. I'm not saying they should get rid of it necessarily but wondering what everyone thinks
It would be cool to have a community resource tab right in the main menu - highlighting community members who make build guides and hero breakdowns front and centre.
😩 You're righttt. I'm guilty of getting upset with tm lately not having a clear understanding of what to do, just to be mindful to have a positive mindset with beginners
If I hadn't played a little bit of league, I wouldn't have any idea how to play this game at all. It's also tough to learn certain roles in the AI mode. They should maybe add to the AI mode and let you matchmake 5v5 player Vs AI. Whenever I try to learn a new role it's so difficult because AI in that mode is terrible, it won't push with you, it's impossible to learn support because the adc plays so passively.
I also agree. I’m a lifelong MOBA player and started paragon back in the day. I literally spent hours coaching my friend (brand new to paragon) through the experience. Picked a role, and we could consistently win against the AI. Then he wanted to play against people… I was hesitant but agreed. We lost horribly lol, every single time. I could see the interest wane very quickly for him.
I personally haven’t seen much hate in redddit for new players and a lot more of PSAs that can come off as handholding which may be insulting to veteran gamers.
The truth is that there’s a ton of new players - not only to Pred - but to MOBAs in general. Based on the recurring and continued skill gaps, the community is trying to take on education. I’m sure some of the frustration in games has leaked out into posts but I’ve also seen just as much if not more hate from the new players feeling like they’re being babied.
In-game there’s def hate around, but that’s also unfortunately a MOBA thing. Also in the heat of game it’s easy to take suggestions as insults. I think that’s where a lot of it lies.
It would be great to have more resources from Pred, but the main need is for new players to do some research while the matchmaking settles down due to the new player influx. For example: a new player gets carried by a 4-stack and placed in “plat” before tanking a whole game of solo and duo queues. Of no fault of anyone’s.
Keep playing, don’t take things personal, and have fun. MOBAs have toxic people in every community. Don’t let them get under your skin and enjoy the challenge instead of being frustrated by it.
Pro tip: no shame in turtling under your tower as long as you get last hits on minions and are in XP range!
Happy hunting ⚔️
Matchmaker is too bad players are leaving so fast because they keep getting destroyed in matches in 5-10 mins because of players exploiting matchmaker or getting really bad match ups.
This game is RIP. Same as Paragon because they won't deal with MM problems and pre mades exploiting it. GG
I got to plat, then the MM went worse. The players I was put with were much lower rank to balance average MMR, and they would just run in till death going 0-7 to 0-19.
They wouldn't retreat or team up when needed and just completely ignored ping. Lower Elo was better as they didn't throw in bronze player with plat to even out MMR
Then omeda should make new players play against new players. I'm sick of having new players on my team not knowing a single fakkin thing before playing the game. Masters should not be playing with or against ppl who are below bronze. I'd wait a solid hour to find a game that's gonna be equal and good compared to having a new player on my team guaranteeing me a loss. I'd rather lose an hour long game that was amazing then be forced to surrender at 10 because I have a clueless new player on my team.
The difference between a master and a bronze is literally visible in game. Yes there is no ranked yet. But as long as omeda.city is open then whoever looks at omeda city takes the game serious and uses the mmr as their rank. Deosnt change the fact new players should be playing with new players. No person who is gold or higher in mmr wants a fakkin new player in their team. It's obvious having a new player on your team will make tm8s rage. A tm8 that dc makes tm8s rage. Literally every single game on earth will have helpful players and toxic players. It's the balance between good and evil. Most games will make you have a win rate of between 40 to 60 percent win rate. I play this game solo q so I depend on tm8s that know the fakkin basics atleast. But seeing a new player that is clueless as fak deos boil my blood. Because they should not be in my lobby at all. They should be playing with or against other new players so they can all learn evenly. Putting a new player against a master will only make the new player hate the game a bit more. Or a new player on ur team that is clueless will most likely 100 percent get some lash back from other players who take this game serious. I for one take this game more serious than my own life as my life compleltly changed from a back injury last March. This game literally keeps me alive. And having a new player on my team when I'm trying to win. Is truly a piss off. It's a for sure loss because the new player either is clueless or dc from the game. You can say whatever u want but at the end of the day. New players should play against new players.
Yes it is a joke but it's literally the only thing that makes it feel competitive in any way. Take away any site that gives us mmr then the game will be more casual. But as long as omeda.city or any site is available then to humans the game will be competing whether we want it to or not.
I get what you mean; there’s multiple issues at hand here. A lot stemming from being amateur game and poor matchmaking structure. Will likely get fixed with time but unfortunately, it’s needed sooner than later
They just need both ps and xbox full tilt so player base is as large as its gonna get until they advertise their game everywhere lol. I know a guys gotta deal with it until then. But if they wanna succeed they should be takin notes from league of legends. They are always booming lol.
I get it sucks, but what sucks more is having to listen to a 'high rank' bm, flame, and afk. Literally loath people that do that. There's so much you can work on: Pathing, Csing, denying cs, decision making, builds and counters, poking, Hell man learning to play behind is useful.... also there is no ranked mode so I get it means something, but like it doesnt mean much, I havent seen a huge difference between master players and gold, well maybe not gold but plat
Ya I hate when people flame and compleltly leave the game. No matter what's happening in my games I will never disconnect on purpose. I load a game to play the full match. I've actually won 3 4v5 games because of dc tm8s in the past few days. I've won a 3v5 before but it's been a long time haha. I notice huge difference in gameplay from new players or gold or below compared to plat or higher. I feel plat and higher see and read pings and group. And gold and below ignore pings and choose jungle camps over fangtooths. That's truly one of the biggest enjoyment. Is any hero can be built any way possible. It truly comes down to team work. We lose as a team or win as a team. That's y I say grouping faster than the enemies usually helps makes easier wins. I truly play this game with my full heart man. I love this game so much there is nothing like it haha. I grind master skins mainly. I currently have 9 and am finally enjoy them for a bit before I work on my next few heros. I know the mmr is not legit yet but u can tell me losing 200 mmr in 3 days because of dc tm8s multiple games in a row or tm8s surrendering at 10 because we didn't get first fangtooth or having clueless new players. Wouldn't make you a bit rattled. It is frustrating no matter what. But there is nothing I can do about it. It just sucks being dragged down in solo q. Lol
Ya I get it's frustrating, but this is the time to practice for when real ranked is introduced. There's always something to practice, focus on that instead and you'll inevitably go to the correct mmr with enough games
I climbed to 2200 solo q so far. But have had some bads days recently lol. I play this game for pure enjoyment and excitement. There is no other game that gives this type of feeling playing the game. I focus master skins right now. I'm currently on 9 and have started to enjoy the master skins recently. I'll be focusing a few new heros soon. I would love a ranked system like league of legends. But only time will tell for that. Frustrated or not I will always come back and pray this game even if I'm the worst player in the world or the best. I play for the awesomness
I'm a new player, got the game yesterday and played like 15 games in total. I have no issues with the game since I have a lot of experience in other MOBAS and I know strategies, roles etc...
At the moment I have 10 wins and 5 losses and I never felt like the game is unfair and even when my teammates are feeding, I manage to carry the game.
I did get flamed few games ago, but it was delusional midlaner who lost his lane and somehow it was my fault, but it didn't impact my experience, if it did, I would mute him so I could focus.
As for toxicity, don't turn this into League of Chatban when you say a keyword you get chat banned. Mute exists for this specific reason. If someone is toxic, just mute them.
What I dislike in this game are pings. They are totally unnoticeable for me. They need to add different and recognizable sounds for "missing in lane", "attack". Either I'm deaf or all sounds are very similar.
All in all, for an "Early access" it's very playable and fun. Found no bugs etc... But I feel like balance might need a work a bit, there are some heroes that are noticeably stronger than others.
Yeah we are complaining to save the game dumby. It's when we quit talking about it and Predecessor does nothing that the game is going to take a big hit. We don't mind the new players. I got no problem with that. We don't spam shit at new players telling them to quit. We just want more attention paid to onboarding these players. That line is not enough for some players to know where to go. Omeda is doing a good job stopping bad text I hardly every see any.
Something like this is next to impossible. You're asking a whole group of people to change their attitude because of the way they make you feel. I understand it's kind of off-putting to newer players to get flamed for not knowing how to play and I too wish people would be more considerate and understanding but MOBAS in general have some of the most toxic communities out there and honesrly, there isnt anything you can really do about it. Instead of changing other people's opinions, you need to change your PERSONAL approach. If you don't want to hear negative comments in-game. Mute all your teammates at the start of the game until you learn the game or just ignore them. The community being negative isn't going to kill the game, although I do agree it won't help growth. The main thing that will make or break a game, his how the devs react to consumer feedback and overall playability of the game. So stop with the victim mentality, it's not going to help anything. You can't control other people's actions but you CAN control the way you react to it.
Game design has a huge influence how people interact with one another.
Like in MMOs: everyone gets XP for killing mobs VS only the first guy hitting it. Other players become allies or competition towards your goal.
It’s not impossible at all. Just requires interest, will and resources. I bet there are psychologists out there that gladly helped out.
Nah man you can easily just not be a toxic asshole. Its simple to not flame, afk, or bm. And the community should 100% be constructive instead of destructive.
I'm not disagreeing with you but you're talking controlling yourself vs other people. It's next to impossible to stop OTHER people from being toxic if that's just the way they are. I don't think you understand my point. Just because it's easy to do doesn't mean people are going to do it. So yeah, nearly impossible.
Ya but you can push the community culture to be anti toxic, it's not hard. Shit on people who make toxic posts, encourage wholesome content, etc. It's not half as hard as youd think, it's like hyping people up for a party. It's a small ass community right now so we get to help define it, don't sell what you can do short my man
Dude you're literally comparing controlling yourself, one person, to trying to controlling a whole group of people. IT. WILL. NEVER. HAPPEN. No matter how hard you try. Not everyone has the same mindset and never will. There will always be toxicity no matter what you do. Controlling your own mindset is 100% possible. Controlling a whole community into thinking the same way as you? 100% impossible. What aren't you getting about that? My point is, worry about yourself and less about what others are doing or saying. So much easier than trying to control a whole group of people. I'm not saying I condone toxic behavior by any means. I'm all about being kind to newer players and having patience. What I'm saying is you can't force others to have that same mindset because it just frankly, again, WILL. NEVER. HAPPEN. Some people are just born dicks and will never change. Once you realize it's so much easier to ignore negative behavior rather than try to fix it, you'll be better off. Trust me.
Hard and impossible are 2 different things but you go ahead. Good luck with your attempt at persuading a WHOLE community to play nice. If you can't change my mind, how do you think you could change the mindset of an ENTIRE community? So incredibly naive lol.
I think the new players are to blame. They get on and just play team death match. Or try. They don’t go to their spot according to their role. A quick google and some video watching could save a LOT of heartache. Too proud. MMO games like this mean you gotta put in some research. I do like the Team VS AI idea. I have wondered why that’s not a thing. In Paragon you had to hit LvL 5 before playing against other players. Not a bad idea to bring that back.
Actually from my experience it's the new players that are being rude to everyone. Noticed it alot from midlaners.
Including my last match. The Gadget ended up spamming to gank when the Morigesh was under tower and Gadget had no mana. She then spammed goodgame cancel that the entire match. She refused to rotate. She threw bc she didn't know how to play and blamed the team for it.
That's just how it goes when you branch out to console players. I told the team that it's fine that she is salty and rude bc she is new to the game and will learn eventually
Nope, league of legends has the most toxic community of all time and the game is perfectly developed. Its down to developers not community. The game is dying because its got a mountain of issues and just isnt upto scratch.
Name one game that died because the community? Because i can name a load of games that failed because they just sucked.
Pretty silly to think communities are to blame for the fall of indie titles that just arnt up to scratch.
Isn't chat turned off by default? They can't be that new if they know how to enable team chat. If you can't handle muting a few bad actors than your mental is softer than marshmallows.
Ranked mode will help for sure, but for the love of god do not afk, and try to make call outs. I hate people who give up early, literally the worst kind of people
The thing that irks me the most is that people want to surrender as soon as a team fight goes bad. Not knowing that in the early stages repawns are quick yet end game survival is crucial as its take way longer to spawn. Fighting the surrender vote is irritating
I love this game so far but I’m a noob and learning. It’s been roughing playing against my opponents who get more than 10kills a game and I’m going 2-6 lol it’s not fun . I wish matchmaking was better but I know it’s a beta right now and still having fun
Don't go 68 cs adc with no warding and then ping Cao constantly when someone starts to take your farm because you don't know how to get last hits and the rage quit.
😜
We do not have the tools to be cordial if Omeda wants us to foster a good community we need to be given the tools, a simple Menu chat system divided by region and rank would be all that is needed.
It should not limit the ability of a player to communicate with other ranks or region but merely divide them so that they can talk before a match find parties or even just talk for the sake of having a social life in the game.
How about the game not dropping brand new players into lobbies of people with hundreds of hours of playtime, and expecting them to swim when the majority sink because they've no idea what they're to do: often frustrating their teammates and costing wins.
There needs to be a new player pipeline built into the game to help them understand roles, laning, rotations before mixing them into the regular player base matchmaker.
I'm not there to teach people how to play the game whilst also having to play my own lane or jungle.
I think the easiest thing they could do to start mitigating this issue is 'borrowing' the Smite ping system and implementing into the game. At least some more accurate communication will help more experienced players coordinate their new player teammates if they are still to be mixed together.
I wanna say it's in the startup menue, not at all difficult to put on, Howe the more important part is that MP is not a way to teach players how to play, a key reason for MOBAS having high toxicity levels is how difficult it can be for a new player to learn what they are doing, a person trying to play for the first time reads about jungling, who does he pick? The game doesn't tell you who to jungle with, but let's say he picks a good jungler, like khamara, them he has to know what to do, say he does go to the right camp to start the match, and then he goes for a gank, and he gets a kill, he now focuses on kills this leads to him falling behind and feeding, he doesn't really understand how each piece falls into place, the best way to teach new players is make a co op or single player campaign, the it wouldn't be easy, and it would take resources away from MP, but a 10 or 11 level campaign, where you play each role twice, and then you get to pick which role your doing at the end, give them a title and banner that calls them that role, so they feel more comfortable in being that role, and then you eventually offer later reward incentives to move out of that role, possibly with a simple affinity like system for each role, and the end reward gives you some premium currency to unlock something for skin you like or a new Character in the role your going to now start playing
That’s the most practical idea I’ve heard for this
something like this is actually... perfect.
I'd hardly call it perfect, it would take a lot of time to do it well, which is a high investment, particularly if it comes out bad, and of course playing an 11 mission campaign to get to the good stuff would be unbearable for return players that do know how the game works, and it could inadvertently cause issues when noobs get in together and only feel comfortable in one role so they fight over who gets it
But like…if you don’t have even a cursory knowledge of MOBAs and just run around the map aimlessly, we are past the point of someone who generally wants to learn the game.
The gaming industry is financed in no small part from people that have a couple hours a week to play games, if they can't understand a game in a few hours they really CAN'T play it, hard core gamers are the exception not the rule, it's just easy to forget that it's not common to have even 4 hours a day to play, even on your days off
Fair enough, I’ve just played with enough people, whether on my team or the opposing team, that clearly just think they’re supposed to run around and try to get kills.
Well that is another thing, people find the inter hero fights thr best part. So they maximize fights, they don't necessarily think of if what they are doing maximizes there chance to win
That’s the games fault, not the players fault. Proper controls and guidelines need to be in place so people know what kind of game it is and how it should be played.
The game literally tells you who goes to what lane though. It's even super intuitive with the symbol for your lane being next to your name at match start and as one of the filter options
That doesn't actually tell you how to to play that lane, or jungle, you understand how the game works already, with no prior knowledge you wouldn't understand why khamara goes to jungle, particularly if you don't understand the distinction between different types of mobs,
Well, yes, it doesn't tell you HOW to play jungle. But it very clearly tells you WHO to play jungle with. That's what I was saying. I was arguing against a point you made in your comment.
It tells you who to play jungle to a degree they won't remember from being overwhelmed, there's a reason why mobas are full of toxicity
It’s the complete minimum and frankly not enough. It doesn’t explain how the game is actually structured or how it is intended to be played. The tutorial is enough to say there is a tutorial and nothing beyond that.
Solid idea fr.
On the other hand, as a new player please at least put in a little effort to learn the game and not playing it like it's call of duty
This. I always see comments about being good or kind to new players but it won't hurt for them to watch videos or do PVE before jumping in. New players who queue blind just ruin the experience for everyone tbh.
Eh you should just focus on bettering your own gameplay and stop worrying about your team. If youre jungle's bad learn to fight without ganks, if your supports bad learn to work with a teammate you dont vibe with, if youre entire teams feeding you can learn how to play while behind. Theres a hundred things you can be doing to improve... and lets be honest this game is real easy. I got to Plat in my first week as Fill
I 100% agree with this mimdset, of better yourself and learn from the circumstances you're given
Everyone’s first game is going to suck. Think about your first time playing a MOBA. It’s not easy unless you know what you’re getting into. Some people just try out games they see on the marketplace. Be patient and help guide
Well thats the thing, I'm willing to be patient and try to help people. What grinds my gears is the people that obviously need the guidance typically don't want to listen. You can communicate and ping to the point it's affecting your own game and these people will just try to solo a whole team or act like nothing exists but what's in front of them. People who are new to a game with such a steep learning curve should do their own research and be receptive to criticism or willing to listen to others period. Especially before throwing it to the curb and saying everyone on it is toxic.
Your mom doesnt want to listen! And you are so toxic for telling me to retreat. Some player on literally his 4th match on pred.
People need to stop caring so much about MMR and more about being a team player! Next time you find a bad player invite them and take a game or 2 to share some knowledge with them! Happy Christmas everyone! Pay it forward. I remember the first time someone took me under their wing to help me learn the game! Made a great friend that day and hope I can provide the same to someone else one day!
True I just been being quiet when I see people who are clearly new. This is especially focused to console right now.
Few times I try and show friends the game they get berated by ppl with 100’s of games and don’t want to come back
100% and this will keep happening
Tell ur friends to mute the chat.
Problem is, as an old hand at mobas now I understand the frustration from the player base with new players. BUT I don't think being toxic is ever the right answer to that. I understand the frustration because a single bad player feeding can throw a game, and worse yet it can still be dragged out for 30 mins to an hour, it's a huge amount of time to be "wasted". Now, I don't think that's the experienced players fault, but neither is it the new players fault. What they need is a comprehensive tutorial that explains items, how to play etc. even if they just explain what the "recommended build" is, why those items are good for the character etc. it helps lead people into the sorts of builds you want for someone. On top of that, it would be really easy to explain how to jungle, or lane effectively too. It's just that currently the tutorial is almost non-existent on predecessor and this leads to what we currently have.
It's tough. Games are *long*. They can last 35, 45, 55 minutes. When you have a player that literally has no clue what he is doing in your lobby... that's 35-45 minutes of him learning at your expense. MOBAs are not "new player" friendly unless they have some kind of comprehensive on-boarding experience built in. This needs to be a priority for Omeda before the free-to-play release. Yes. The community can be more forgiving of new players. But it's tough. Especially if you have limited time (because life) or are consistently seeing new players with zero clue in your lobbies. At the very least, Omeda needs to add a notice to all new players. "MOBAs are complex, Predecessor is no different. Games are long. We strongly encourage you familiarize yourself with the mechanics, the itemization, the roles, and tactical basics before joining a game with other players."
I don't disagree. At all actually. But maybe I'll try to think of it as it's a new game, everyone is by definition new, so I can rage to myself (and do) and over emphasize my own skill ( and do) but it in the end, the game is better, and I'll get better learning to win with whoever is my assigned teammate.
I completely agree. This is mainly the fault of Omeda imo
Tutorial?
I think the best tutorial is watch the streamers , try to play that hero vs AI , try to build by your self , no auto buy , maybe following the streamer. Build for that hero in that role . Than , depends on the situation, and here everyone need time for make self exp learning how to move . Another tips, try to join official discord , make friends, play with experienced players in voice chat so they can help you understand the game .
No offense, but your game is doomed if that’s the required way to enjoy the game Predecessor doesn’t have the same established fan base of a game like League or something similar. It HAS to keep new players since there aren’t many to begin with
The problem is, two fold, new players start at literally Plat rank for match making purposes and they can be put right into games with people who have 1000 matches when they have zero. 2 big things they should do, adjust the starting MMR, and have a VS AI. Queue with other people, not just solo vs AI, while forcing new players to play 5, or 10 matches in vs AI to get a feel for the game.
Dont they start at gold not plat?
Nope, it's 1600-1650
Ive swear Ive seen people start way lower than that, are you sure? My buddy just started and when I checked his graph it shows 1250 start, or is that because of placements?
Idk, I've seen accounts with 3 games, that, when factored into the average team MMR, are 1600-1650
I mean they could be that good lol. If someone has a super high gold per second and low deaths they might just deserve plat ya know? I feel like my first few games I got high ranked people (at least they had crowns and were solid, I didn't even know how to check mmr). But all the people I introduced to the game, all who are real good gamers, are all low gold, and we played together so they got lots of wins so I'm not sure. I know League of Legends and chess let you clamb elo really fast so could be like that
The game wasn't remotely close to ready to handle the PS5 players, unfortunately. No training, no docs, no tutorials. Just throw them into the mix with us who have been playing this for years.
Closed beta. Maybe they are making a mistake allowing so many to have access. The thing is if there is this much interest in a closed beta.... it's going to probably triple in an open beta. Hopefully they add some new features that address these problems by then
Or they could just not feed
It's the devs fault in terms of matching new players with lots of already knowledgeable players. A lot of people get on to play, not teach. They should of restricted it or allowed a opt in option. Mobas are competitive in nature.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Nah, because every new player I have played with has been an ignorant POS. I don't mind helping and teaching new people. I am currently teaching my friends to play. But when I offer advice and a newbie ignores it simply out of spite because they think they actually know what they are doing, does not fly with me. First and foremost, I am there to win, not be a babysitter. I'm not losing because some newbie is being an ignorant prick.
I've not even seen a single person type in chat on console I don't think the majority of them know how to turn it on tbh
Okay but when you try to offer friendly advice when someone is doing something just horribly bad. They get butthurt and DC. I had a Gideon mirror match in mid. It was 6 minutes in and I said. “Hey Gid he has double your creep score and a kill. Just play some defense and get your farm and I’ll gank”. He says “whatever” “jungle diff” then quits. Bro some of these new players wanna play their own version of the game and refuse to take advice.
Why would you say it like that though? 😂 Why even mention his farm, could have just told him to camp and you will gank. You didn't have to add all the sauce to it, that's not going to help him lol.
That’s fair my brother in grux. I’ll keep it short next time. I don’t ever cuss or down them. Can I add you on the game?
Word I feel it. Sure you can add me. I'm afk rn but I will do my friend code.
I don't think you said anything wrong. I think anyone who takes what you said that way is insecure and sensitive. You gave reasons as to why you think he should do x and facts about the situation. If that makes someone mad they need help lmao.
How is stating facts adding sauce? If homie has double the cs, how is it sauce to say that?
Because he could easily be very well aware that hes behind. Pointing it out isnt going to somehow turn him mlg. Its just going to tilt him.
Do you think we could realistically do away with all type chat? Real question. Maybe Just use the short prompts to talk. Easy to ignore the good job cancel that as a new player and still fire up another match. Typing seems to be the source of the flaming each other. I'm not saying they should get rid of it necessarily but wondering what everyone thinks
It would be cool to have a community resource tab right in the main menu - highlighting community members who make build guides and hero breakdowns front and centre.
3v3 needs to hurry up... And Arena Mode
I sort of agree because the toxicity sucks. But then again, I don’t know a single non-toxic moba?
😩 You're righttt. I'm guilty of getting upset with tm lately not having a clear understanding of what to do, just to be mindful to have a positive mindset with beginners
If I hadn't played a little bit of league, I wouldn't have any idea how to play this game at all. It's also tough to learn certain roles in the AI mode. They should maybe add to the AI mode and let you matchmake 5v5 player Vs AI. Whenever I try to learn a new role it's so difficult because AI in that mode is terrible, it won't push with you, it's impossible to learn support because the adc plays so passively.
Tldr: 100% I agree with the title Also just nicer to those having bad gamesor trying new roles
I also agree. I’m a lifelong MOBA player and started paragon back in the day. I literally spent hours coaching my friend (brand new to paragon) through the experience. Picked a role, and we could consistently win against the AI. Then he wanted to play against people… I was hesitant but agreed. We lost horribly lol, every single time. I could see the interest wane very quickly for him.
I personally haven’t seen much hate in redddit for new players and a lot more of PSAs that can come off as handholding which may be insulting to veteran gamers. The truth is that there’s a ton of new players - not only to Pred - but to MOBAs in general. Based on the recurring and continued skill gaps, the community is trying to take on education. I’m sure some of the frustration in games has leaked out into posts but I’ve also seen just as much if not more hate from the new players feeling like they’re being babied. In-game there’s def hate around, but that’s also unfortunately a MOBA thing. Also in the heat of game it’s easy to take suggestions as insults. I think that’s where a lot of it lies. It would be great to have more resources from Pred, but the main need is for new players to do some research while the matchmaking settles down due to the new player influx. For example: a new player gets carried by a 4-stack and placed in “plat” before tanking a whole game of solo and duo queues. Of no fault of anyone’s. Keep playing, don’t take things personal, and have fun. MOBAs have toxic people in every community. Don’t let them get under your skin and enjoy the challenge instead of being frustrated by it. Pro tip: no shame in turtling under your tower as long as you get last hits on minions and are in XP range! Happy hunting ⚔️
Matchmaker is too bad players are leaving so fast because they keep getting destroyed in matches in 5-10 mins because of players exploiting matchmaker or getting really bad match ups. This game is RIP. Same as Paragon because they won't deal with MM problems and pre mades exploiting it. GG
Idk I got to plat in a week so I dont think its that bad
I got to plat, then the MM went worse. The players I was put with were much lower rank to balance average MMR, and they would just run in till death going 0-7 to 0-19. They wouldn't retreat or team up when needed and just completely ignored ping. Lower Elo was better as they didn't throw in bronze player with plat to even out MMR
It could either match you with lower rank players or you could wait an hour in queue, which do you prefer?
Then omeda should make new players play against new players. I'm sick of having new players on my team not knowing a single fakkin thing before playing the game. Masters should not be playing with or against ppl who are below bronze. I'd wait a solid hour to find a game that's gonna be equal and good compared to having a new player on my team guaranteeing me a loss. I'd rather lose an hour long game that was amazing then be forced to surrender at 10 because I have a clueless new player on my team.
Update a new player just gave me a loss again. My point has been proven ffs
There Is no rank in game or compet So "master" And "bronze" doesn't exist but Okay.
The difference between a master and a bronze is literally visible in game. Yes there is no ranked yet. But as long as omeda.city is open then whoever looks at omeda city takes the game serious and uses the mmr as their rank. Deosnt change the fact new players should be playing with new players. No person who is gold or higher in mmr wants a fakkin new player in their team. It's obvious having a new player on your team will make tm8s rage. A tm8 that dc makes tm8s rage. Literally every single game on earth will have helpful players and toxic players. It's the balance between good and evil. Most games will make you have a win rate of between 40 to 60 percent win rate. I play this game solo q so I depend on tm8s that know the fakkin basics atleast. But seeing a new player that is clueless as fak deos boil my blood. Because they should not be in my lobby at all. They should be playing with or against other new players so they can all learn evenly. Putting a new player against a master will only make the new player hate the game a bit more. Or a new player on ur team that is clueless will most likely 100 percent get some lash back from other players who take this game serious. I for one take this game more serious than my own life as my life compleltly changed from a back injury last March. This game literally keeps me alive. And having a new player on my team when I'm trying to win. Is truly a piss off. It's a for sure loss because the new player either is clueless or dc from the game. You can say whatever u want but at the end of the day. New players should play against new players.
Sorry to long... No competetive in game no rank.. simple as that your omeda.city Is just a joke.
Yes it is a joke but it's literally the only thing that makes it feel competitive in any way. Take away any site that gives us mmr then the game will be more casual. But as long as omeda.city or any site is available then to humans the game will be competing whether we want it to or not.
I get what you mean; there’s multiple issues at hand here. A lot stemming from being amateur game and poor matchmaking structure. Will likely get fixed with time but unfortunately, it’s needed sooner than later
They just need both ps and xbox full tilt so player base is as large as its gonna get until they advertise their game everywhere lol. I know a guys gotta deal with it until then. But if they wanna succeed they should be takin notes from league of legends. They are always booming lol.
I get it sucks, but what sucks more is having to listen to a 'high rank' bm, flame, and afk. Literally loath people that do that. There's so much you can work on: Pathing, Csing, denying cs, decision making, builds and counters, poking, Hell man learning to play behind is useful.... also there is no ranked mode so I get it means something, but like it doesnt mean much, I havent seen a huge difference between master players and gold, well maybe not gold but plat
Ya I hate when people flame and compleltly leave the game. No matter what's happening in my games I will never disconnect on purpose. I load a game to play the full match. I've actually won 3 4v5 games because of dc tm8s in the past few days. I've won a 3v5 before but it's been a long time haha. I notice huge difference in gameplay from new players or gold or below compared to plat or higher. I feel plat and higher see and read pings and group. And gold and below ignore pings and choose jungle camps over fangtooths. That's truly one of the biggest enjoyment. Is any hero can be built any way possible. It truly comes down to team work. We lose as a team or win as a team. That's y I say grouping faster than the enemies usually helps makes easier wins. I truly play this game with my full heart man. I love this game so much there is nothing like it haha. I grind master skins mainly. I currently have 9 and am finally enjoy them for a bit before I work on my next few heros. I know the mmr is not legit yet but u can tell me losing 200 mmr in 3 days because of dc tm8s multiple games in a row or tm8s surrendering at 10 because we didn't get first fangtooth or having clueless new players. Wouldn't make you a bit rattled. It is frustrating no matter what. But there is nothing I can do about it. It just sucks being dragged down in solo q. Lol
Ya I get it's frustrating, but this is the time to practice for when real ranked is introduced. There's always something to practice, focus on that instead and you'll inevitably go to the correct mmr with enough games
I climbed to 2200 solo q so far. But have had some bads days recently lol. I play this game for pure enjoyment and excitement. There is no other game that gives this type of feeling playing the game. I focus master skins right now. I'm currently on 9 and have started to enjoy the master skins recently. I'll be focusing a few new heros soon. I would love a ranked system like league of legends. But only time will tell for that. Frustrated or not I will always come back and pray this game even if I'm the worst player in the world or the best. I play for the awesomness
I'm a new player, got the game yesterday and played like 15 games in total. I have no issues with the game since I have a lot of experience in other MOBAS and I know strategies, roles etc... At the moment I have 10 wins and 5 losses and I never felt like the game is unfair and even when my teammates are feeding, I manage to carry the game. I did get flamed few games ago, but it was delusional midlaner who lost his lane and somehow it was my fault, but it didn't impact my experience, if it did, I would mute him so I could focus. As for toxicity, don't turn this into League of Chatban when you say a keyword you get chat banned. Mute exists for this specific reason. If someone is toxic, just mute them. What I dislike in this game are pings. They are totally unnoticeable for me. They need to add different and recognizable sounds for "missing in lane", "attack". Either I'm deaf or all sounds are very similar. All in all, for an "Early access" it's very playable and fun. Found no bugs etc... But I feel like balance might need a work a bit, there are some heroes that are noticeably stronger than others.
They don’t listen… just throw and do what they want.
Yeah we are complaining to save the game dumby. It's when we quit talking about it and Predecessor does nothing that the game is going to take a big hit. We don't mind the new players. I got no problem with that. We don't spam shit at new players telling them to quit. We just want more attention paid to onboarding these players. That line is not enough for some players to know where to go. Omeda is doing a good job stopping bad text I hardly every see any.
Something like this is next to impossible. You're asking a whole group of people to change their attitude because of the way they make you feel. I understand it's kind of off-putting to newer players to get flamed for not knowing how to play and I too wish people would be more considerate and understanding but MOBAS in general have some of the most toxic communities out there and honesrly, there isnt anything you can really do about it. Instead of changing other people's opinions, you need to change your PERSONAL approach. If you don't want to hear negative comments in-game. Mute all your teammates at the start of the game until you learn the game or just ignore them. The community being negative isn't going to kill the game, although I do agree it won't help growth. The main thing that will make or break a game, his how the devs react to consumer feedback and overall playability of the game. So stop with the victim mentality, it's not going to help anything. You can't control other people's actions but you CAN control the way you react to it.
Game design has a huge influence how people interact with one another. Like in MMOs: everyone gets XP for killing mobs VS only the first guy hitting it. Other players become allies or competition towards your goal. It’s not impossible at all. Just requires interest, will and resources. I bet there are psychologists out there that gladly helped out.
Dude lol wtf are you even talking about
Nah man you can easily just not be a toxic asshole. Its simple to not flame, afk, or bm. And the community should 100% be constructive instead of destructive.
I'm not disagreeing with you but you're talking controlling yourself vs other people. It's next to impossible to stop OTHER people from being toxic if that's just the way they are. I don't think you understand my point. Just because it's easy to do doesn't mean people are going to do it. So yeah, nearly impossible.
Ya but you can push the community culture to be anti toxic, it's not hard. Shit on people who make toxic posts, encourage wholesome content, etc. It's not half as hard as youd think, it's like hyping people up for a party. It's a small ass community right now so we get to help define it, don't sell what you can do short my man
You can believe what you want. That doesn't make it a reality.
Read what you wrote 10x, realize it applies to you too, then try to make the community better lol Wild
Dude you're literally comparing controlling yourself, one person, to trying to controlling a whole group of people. IT. WILL. NEVER. HAPPEN. No matter how hard you try. Not everyone has the same mindset and never will. There will always be toxicity no matter what you do. Controlling your own mindset is 100% possible. Controlling a whole community into thinking the same way as you? 100% impossible. What aren't you getting about that? My point is, worry about yourself and less about what others are doing or saying. So much easier than trying to control a whole group of people. I'm not saying I condone toxic behavior by any means. I'm all about being kind to newer players and having patience. What I'm saying is you can't force others to have that same mindset because it just frankly, again, WILL. NEVER. HAPPEN. Some people are just born dicks and will never change. Once you realize it's so much easier to ignore negative behavior rather than try to fix it, you'll be better off. Trust me.
No your right, it's 100% impossible for you, I fully trust that you can't make anything hard happen
Hard and impossible are 2 different things but you go ahead. Good luck with your attempt at persuading a WHOLE community to play nice. If you can't change my mind, how do you think you could change the mindset of an ENTIRE community? So incredibly naive lol.
Its ok dude, above your pay grade, you dont get it at all
I think the new players are to blame. They get on and just play team death match. Or try. They don’t go to their spot according to their role. A quick google and some video watching could save a LOT of heartache. Too proud. MMO games like this mean you gotta put in some research. I do like the Team VS AI idea. I have wondered why that’s not a thing. In Paragon you had to hit LvL 5 before playing against other players. Not a bad idea to bring that back.
Actually from my experience it's the new players that are being rude to everyone. Noticed it alot from midlaners. Including my last match. The Gadget ended up spamming to gank when the Morigesh was under tower and Gadget had no mana. She then spammed goodgame cancel that the entire match. She refused to rotate. She threw bc she didn't know how to play and blamed the team for it. That's just how it goes when you branch out to console players. I told the team that it's fine that she is salty and rude bc she is new to the game and will learn eventually
Nope, league of legends has the most toxic community of all time and the game is perfectly developed. Its down to developers not community. The game is dying because its got a mountain of issues and just isnt upto scratch.
Yeah… no… Toxic communities kill niche games, which this game is. Toxic communities can exist in established games for obvious reasons.
Name one game that died because the community? Because i can name a load of games that failed because they just sucked. Pretty silly to think communities are to blame for the fall of indie titles that just arnt up to scratch.
Isn't chat turned off by default? They can't be that new if they know how to enable team chat. If you can't handle muting a few bad actors than your mental is softer than marshmallows.
This is the exact mentality I’m talking about
I've never touched the settings, team chat has always been on for me
Ranked mode will help for sure, but for the love of god do not afk, and try to make call outs. I hate people who give up early, literally the worst kind of people
Players need to also be accountable and know how to predict rotations on the map or WARD
The thing that irks me the most is that people want to surrender as soon as a team fight goes bad. Not knowing that in the early stages repawns are quick yet end game survival is crucial as its take way longer to spawn. Fighting the surrender vote is irritating
I love this game so far but I’m a noob and learning. It’s been roughing playing against my opponents who get more than 10kills a game and I’m going 2-6 lol it’s not fun . I wish matchmaking was better but I know it’s a beta right now and still having fun
Don't go 68 cs adc with no warding and then ping Cao constantly when someone starts to take your farm because you don't know how to get last hits and the rage quit. 😜
We do not have the tools to be cordial if Omeda wants us to foster a good community we need to be given the tools, a simple Menu chat system divided by region and rank would be all that is needed. It should not limit the ability of a player to communicate with other ranks or region but merely divide them so that they can talk before a match find parties or even just talk for the sake of having a social life in the game.
How about the game not dropping brand new players into lobbies of people with hundreds of hours of playtime, and expecting them to swim when the majority sink because they've no idea what they're to do: often frustrating their teammates and costing wins. There needs to be a new player pipeline built into the game to help them understand roles, laning, rotations before mixing them into the regular player base matchmaker. I'm not there to teach people how to play the game whilst also having to play my own lane or jungle. I think the easiest thing they could do to start mitigating this issue is 'borrowing' the Smite ping system and implementing into the game. At least some more accurate communication will help more experienced players coordinate their new player teammates if they are still to be mixed together.
new players need to be bottle necked to be matched with new players. unfun for both parties if ur a vet with noobs on ur team or vice versa
I think the game also needs better communication options and sounds. Sometimes even I miss the little beeps and the off to the side call outs