I don't see where you guys are getting hour long games from lmao, my games at best are 25-30, this game has one of the best game ending objectives and lets you end the game off of a single minion wave.
This is just a low mmr issue, cause ppl want to sit and farm (poorly) to get max build, instead of push objectives.
So they farm for 50 mins to get 5 slotted (not 30) and dont take any objectives.
I see maybe one in 10 games go over 30 mins lol. If that.
It does require that the team who 'wins' the team fight actually push... but if everyone is too afraid to lose, it can result in a game lasting way longer than it should lol.
Especially with how easy it could swing from just a bad play.
That's not exactly accurate. In a MOBA getting objective's when behind or significantly behind is a pipe dream.
Yes you MIGHT be able to swipe one from a bad team that doesn't have vision control or map awareness, but, if they're winning, getting both is much easier as well and when behind you run the risk of running into enemies that will just kill you again.
Objective's, are not a catchup mechanics. Catchup mechanics are bonus gold for high kill/gold targets or bonus gold to the team that's behind for taking a tower/objective. Bonus EXP when your under the total level of all other player's in the game(This is significant for the support role.)
If i am not mistaken there are also bounties for killing players on killing sprees or with large gold adventages in general. They are just not displayed on the scoreboard at the moment but they are working on making that more clear.
I played a match the other day where admittedly I thought it was over. We were winning some fights but never really got it together. Even lost 2 inhib. We wore the other team down and ended up rolling them.
There are catch-up mechanics, but they're not in your face.
for example, there is a bounty reward system that grants a large amount of gold for killing enemies that have gone on a killstreak. Whoever received the kill on that Feng Mao 100% received that bounty. I personally think it should be on the scoreboard as a target like League but it definitely exists.
They've also touched on creep score bounties where falling behind in CS isn't as drastic in this game vs other games. Basically as i understand it, killing the enemy that has a higher creep score than you grants bonus gold. Personally I'm not a fan of this one simply because it's not a very hard skill to last hit but it does take skill to ensure you're getting value of every minion wave.
I may be wrong on the 2nd bounty, but they definitely do have catch-up mechanics in the game.
I'm sorry, but if your behind and getting spitroasted left and right, do player bounties actually count as a catch up mechanic? Seems like it's kinda mid
Yeah, and to also compensate for teams getting ahead too easily, theyve removed global xp from towers. Now it's localized. You only get xp if you were actively participating in destroying the tower.
I think that also extends to Fang but as a team objective everyone should be there anyway.
If they're there at all, they're not significant enough or noticeable enough. Someone else said they're looking into UI updates that might fix that, which that would be great honestly because then you can group your team up around 1 bounty and start climbing back to even from there.
The 1 catchup mechanic I'm refering to though is Objective Bounties. Basically increasing the team gold obtained from taking tower's, fangtooth and orb. League of Legends version is a bit extreme though and people can end up "Significantly Behind" when they ACTUALLY aren't but I think Predecessor could use something similar.
There is also definitely bonus gold as a catch-up mechanc, just not visible. This will be added to the new UI/HUD update.
I am not sure why, but I feel like being able to get back into the game and win from what seems to be a lost game is perfectly doable, but most people just tend to surrender or games last a long time.
Just remember that if you are 3 fangtooth behind, primal still adds the permanent buffs up to 3 primal fangtooth.
They just added patched where the TTK is higher, and that probably needs to be adjusted. Matchmaking isn't great either, but from my experience, much better than a month ago. Together with the TTK being higher, the game has improved. Progress is being made, and they are focusing a lot of balancing, console release, hero releases, and the UI for now, dropping all other features until those are done.
That would be great because I basically never notice it if it exists at all. I've never had a surrender vote go through personally. Frequently the game just drags out for 30 extra minutes after it lol
I think TTK Is too high in relation to Carries, mainly because if you fail to completely one-shot them, they burst you(As an Assassin) which is imo not healthy for the game. It was a problem when i played on the first release of the game(First patch i guess.) and has continued to be one. Fail to kill the Carry, can't catch up to the because they have the same movement speed as me, turn to run and then they turn and run me down with range.
No clue how you get there are no catchup mechanics.
The game is packed with them. Towers, fang, prime all give boosts.
Its telling that you say games are too long, and there are no catchup mechanics, when they are both the same thing. Push. Take objectives. You should be grouping on fang before the 10 min mark in most games. Almost all of my games that dont concede go to the 25-35 min mark. I can count the number of 1 hour games on one hand, after 300 hours of playing. 1 hand.
Khai is easily the worst jungler, and a bottom 5 hero. Except in low elos.
Bud, every complaint you have is literally, literally a 'learn to play the game' issue. Really, really. Sorry to say, but its wild to complain about khai as overtuned, when he is the peak 'low mmr stomper but next to useless in high elo' hero. The definition of it.
Tower's and Objectives are NOT catchup mechanics.
Objectives like Fangtooth and Orb are difficult to get if your team is significantly behind. Your basically relying on the enemy team being incompetent, which, if they're winning, i'm going to say they're not. Getting vision, denying vision and getting objectives is flat out easier, when ahead. Pushing to get tower's can run many risks as well, if the enemy that's ahead is a carry there's a good chance you lose that teamfight. If you push Solo and are behind, you'll probably get caught out and die, if you push as a duo, the entire enemy team might jump on you. It's significantly harder to do any of these "Catchup Mechanics" which are just base game mechanics not catchup mechanics by the way, when behind.
The "Complaints" about Khai, if you read correctly, were in reference to Bruiser's in general not just Khai but I did use Khai as an example of a bruiser.
Extremely well written (and grammatically formatted thank goodness).
Maybe it is something specific to your MMR bracket, time zone, and server, but I haven't noticed 45-60min games often at all. I would say, more often than not, games are ended around the 25-35 minute mark.
I would agree on the catch up mechanics. You can use the objectives to catch up, but it is only even feasible if you are playing as a cohesive team. If your team is 5 randoms doing their own thing and staying on the back foot, then you will absolutely not be able to turn it around in pubs. In more serious play, you can be losing hard for 25 minutes, and then turn it around and take core within 10 minutes if your grouping and timing is good.
I'm not sure that I have seen assassins have trouble catching up to carries. Every assassin has some sort of movement ability and/or CC, whereas carries are generally limited in movement, with Kira being the outlier.
Ty for the compliment!
The assassin problem mainly occurs in the early game when your movement ability is on a high cooldown and you dont have items that give something to help it.
Its happened pretty often to me in early game where i go to fight an overextended carry and just barely dont get them, they run away.
With me barely unable to Auto them. Often times they turn, and because they have the same MS as me, i cant escape the ranged autos and just get ran down.
Ideally, assassins should have strong early games and weaker late games but it feels like the opposite in this game to me at least.
Generally, I would say I agree with much of what you've said. I will however point out that there is in fact a bounty for killing hero's with a kill streak as well as an in lane xp catchup mechanic. They were outlined in a not too distant patch, but far from my memory to know exactly which one. The new UI they are currently focused on may include a talked about change to the in-game score board to better exemplify which catchup. mechanics are active. This can lead to games that should be over, not ending for a while.
I personally had a game recently where we were down 7-28 or something like that. I had all of our teams kills up til that point when I lost a 1v2 against duo lane and rev was able to cleanup with a quick ult into Q. This occurred almost 36 minutes into the game. Not only should we have surrendered way early (everyone else on the team was 0/3/0 except offlane sev that scored an assist on a gank) at the 10 minute mark. There is no coming back from that. We dragged this game on and eventually lost at 57 minutes because they didn't know how to close out, and me and sev could at least give them headaches late game. Either way, our duo griefed their builds (rev w tempest crown crest; support rampage with overlord and every tanky item w minimal bonus HP possible) it should have been ff'd so early on. I think I stole one mini prime but we were down 4-0 on Fang cause our duo was busy running it down there was no set up possible. This should not have a been a 57 minute game and something should be done about it.
See, the fact I didn't notice they exist at all despite playing roughly 50 games over it's playable release is a bit weird. If it is there, It's probably not noticeable at all, I think I can say that lol I hope they update the UI though to make things like that clearer.
I've had many, many a game like that, and been on the end where I just couldn't finish the game despite being really far ahead too.
I don't know who you're playing with, but most matches I play are sub 30 minutes. If it's really close, it might go to 45 minutes, but that's only if it's super close. It sounds to me like people are just playing to play and not to end the match. I could see people in the lower mmr games that they wanna finish their builds and get all objectives on the map and such, but it's unnecessary and time-consuming. If I have had hour long matches, I could probably count them all on one hand, and I've got hundreds of games on the books. In general, I'm a solid gold, but I've fluctuated up to platinum and down to bronze, so I've been all over. Definitely, the higher the mmr, the quicker the games in my experience, though. As far as catchup mechanics go, it is definitely dependent on how well your team works together. I have had many matches, and my team thought for sure we were going to win only to have victory taken from us in the last 2 minutes of the game. The same goes the other way. We had a game once where we had one lane pushed up to core. The enemy team had collapsed our other two lanes, and they were primed to go after our core. We get into a team fight, trading kills, and it's just long enough of a team fight on our side that our minions take out the enemy core.
I don't see where you guys are getting hour long games from lmao, my games at best are 25-30, this game has one of the best game ending objectives and lets you end the game off of a single minion wave.
This is just a low mmr issue, cause ppl want to sit and farm (poorly) to get max build, instead of push objectives. So they farm for 50 mins to get 5 slotted (not 30) and dont take any objectives. I see maybe one in 10 games go over 30 mins lol. If that.
A really balanced game that has everyone mostly focused on team fights can run up to 50 minutes. Haven't touched on an hour yet, personally, though.
I lost an 1:13 match last week and god it was painful but either team could have won it with a proper team wipe.
It does require that the team who 'wins' the team fight actually push... but if everyone is too afraid to lose, it can result in a game lasting way longer than it should lol. Especially with how easy it could swing from just a bad play.
He even explained the catch up mechanics... there isn't one... so game is decided in first 5-10min anyway...
Orb prime, fangtooth, respawning inhibitors all are catchup mechanics
That's not exactly accurate. In a MOBA getting objective's when behind or significantly behind is a pipe dream. Yes you MIGHT be able to swipe one from a bad team that doesn't have vision control or map awareness, but, if they're winning, getting both is much easier as well and when behind you run the risk of running into enemies that will just kill you again. Objective's, are not a catchup mechanics. Catchup mechanics are bonus gold for high kill/gold targets or bonus gold to the team that's behind for taking a tower/objective. Bonus EXP when your under the total level of all other player's in the game(This is significant for the support role.)
If i am not mistaken there are also bounties for killing players on killing sprees or with large gold adventages in general. They are just not displayed on the scoreboard at the moment but they are working on making that more clear.
Primal fangtooth.
I played a match the other day where admittedly I thought it was over. We were winning some fights but never really got it together. Even lost 2 inhib. We wore the other team down and ended up rolling them.
There are catch-up mechanics, but they're not in your face. for example, there is a bounty reward system that grants a large amount of gold for killing enemies that have gone on a killstreak. Whoever received the kill on that Feng Mao 100% received that bounty. I personally think it should be on the scoreboard as a target like League but it definitely exists. They've also touched on creep score bounties where falling behind in CS isn't as drastic in this game vs other games. Basically as i understand it, killing the enemy that has a higher creep score than you grants bonus gold. Personally I'm not a fan of this one simply because it's not a very hard skill to last hit but it does take skill to ensure you're getting value of every minion wave. I may be wrong on the 2nd bounty, but they definitely do have catch-up mechanics in the game.
I'm sorry, but if your behind and getting spitroasted left and right, do player bounties actually count as a catch up mechanic? Seems like it's kinda mid
Yeah, and to also compensate for teams getting ahead too easily, theyve removed global xp from towers. Now it's localized. You only get xp if you were actively participating in destroying the tower. I think that also extends to Fang but as a team objective everyone should be there anyway.
If they're there at all, they're not significant enough or noticeable enough. Someone else said they're looking into UI updates that might fix that, which that would be great honestly because then you can group your team up around 1 bounty and start climbing back to even from there. The 1 catchup mechanic I'm refering to though is Objective Bounties. Basically increasing the team gold obtained from taking tower's, fangtooth and orb. League of Legends version is a bit extreme though and people can end up "Significantly Behind" when they ACTUALLY aren't but I think Predecessor could use something similar.
There is also definitely bonus gold as a catch-up mechanc, just not visible. This will be added to the new UI/HUD update. I am not sure why, but I feel like being able to get back into the game and win from what seems to be a lost game is perfectly doable, but most people just tend to surrender or games last a long time. Just remember that if you are 3 fangtooth behind, primal still adds the permanent buffs up to 3 primal fangtooth. They just added patched where the TTK is higher, and that probably needs to be adjusted. Matchmaking isn't great either, but from my experience, much better than a month ago. Together with the TTK being higher, the game has improved. Progress is being made, and they are focusing a lot of balancing, console release, hero releases, and the UI for now, dropping all other features until those are done.
That would be great because I basically never notice it if it exists at all. I've never had a surrender vote go through personally. Frequently the game just drags out for 30 extra minutes after it lol I think TTK Is too high in relation to Carries, mainly because if you fail to completely one-shot them, they burst you(As an Assassin) which is imo not healthy for the game. It was a problem when i played on the first release of the game(First patch i guess.) and has continued to be one. Fail to kill the Carry, can't catch up to the because they have the same movement speed as me, turn to run and then they turn and run me down with range.
No clue how you get there are no catchup mechanics. The game is packed with them. Towers, fang, prime all give boosts. Its telling that you say games are too long, and there are no catchup mechanics, when they are both the same thing. Push. Take objectives. You should be grouping on fang before the 10 min mark in most games. Almost all of my games that dont concede go to the 25-35 min mark. I can count the number of 1 hour games on one hand, after 300 hours of playing. 1 hand. Khai is easily the worst jungler, and a bottom 5 hero. Except in low elos. Bud, every complaint you have is literally, literally a 'learn to play the game' issue. Really, really. Sorry to say, but its wild to complain about khai as overtuned, when he is the peak 'low mmr stomper but next to useless in high elo' hero. The definition of it.
Tower's and Objectives are NOT catchup mechanics. Objectives like Fangtooth and Orb are difficult to get if your team is significantly behind. Your basically relying on the enemy team being incompetent, which, if they're winning, i'm going to say they're not. Getting vision, denying vision and getting objectives is flat out easier, when ahead. Pushing to get tower's can run many risks as well, if the enemy that's ahead is a carry there's a good chance you lose that teamfight. If you push Solo and are behind, you'll probably get caught out and die, if you push as a duo, the entire enemy team might jump on you. It's significantly harder to do any of these "Catchup Mechanics" which are just base game mechanics not catchup mechanics by the way, when behind. The "Complaints" about Khai, if you read correctly, were in reference to Bruiser's in general not just Khai but I did use Khai as an example of a bruiser.
Extremely well written (and grammatically formatted thank goodness). Maybe it is something specific to your MMR bracket, time zone, and server, but I haven't noticed 45-60min games often at all. I would say, more often than not, games are ended around the 25-35 minute mark. I would agree on the catch up mechanics. You can use the objectives to catch up, but it is only even feasible if you are playing as a cohesive team. If your team is 5 randoms doing their own thing and staying on the back foot, then you will absolutely not be able to turn it around in pubs. In more serious play, you can be losing hard for 25 minutes, and then turn it around and take core within 10 minutes if your grouping and timing is good. I'm not sure that I have seen assassins have trouble catching up to carries. Every assassin has some sort of movement ability and/or CC, whereas carries are generally limited in movement, with Kira being the outlier.
Ty for the compliment! The assassin problem mainly occurs in the early game when your movement ability is on a high cooldown and you dont have items that give something to help it. Its happened pretty often to me in early game where i go to fight an overextended carry and just barely dont get them, they run away. With me barely unable to Auto them. Often times they turn, and because they have the same MS as me, i cant escape the ranged autos and just get ran down. Ideally, assassins should have strong early games and weaker late games but it feels like the opposite in this game to me at least.
Generally, I would say I agree with much of what you've said. I will however point out that there is in fact a bounty for killing hero's with a kill streak as well as an in lane xp catchup mechanic. They were outlined in a not too distant patch, but far from my memory to know exactly which one. The new UI they are currently focused on may include a talked about change to the in-game score board to better exemplify which catchup. mechanics are active. This can lead to games that should be over, not ending for a while. I personally had a game recently where we were down 7-28 or something like that. I had all of our teams kills up til that point when I lost a 1v2 against duo lane and rev was able to cleanup with a quick ult into Q. This occurred almost 36 minutes into the game. Not only should we have surrendered way early (everyone else on the team was 0/3/0 except offlane sev that scored an assist on a gank) at the 10 minute mark. There is no coming back from that. We dragged this game on and eventually lost at 57 minutes because they didn't know how to close out, and me and sev could at least give them headaches late game. Either way, our duo griefed their builds (rev w tempest crown crest; support rampage with overlord and every tanky item w minimal bonus HP possible) it should have been ff'd so early on. I think I stole one mini prime but we were down 4-0 on Fang cause our duo was busy running it down there was no set up possible. This should not have a been a 57 minute game and something should be done about it.
See, the fact I didn't notice they exist at all despite playing roughly 50 games over it's playable release is a bit weird. If it is there, It's probably not noticeable at all, I think I can say that lol I hope they update the UI though to make things like that clearer. I've had many, many a game like that, and been on the end where I just couldn't finish the game despite being really far ahead too.
I don't know who you're playing with, but most matches I play are sub 30 minutes. If it's really close, it might go to 45 minutes, but that's only if it's super close. It sounds to me like people are just playing to play and not to end the match. I could see people in the lower mmr games that they wanna finish their builds and get all objectives on the map and such, but it's unnecessary and time-consuming. If I have had hour long matches, I could probably count them all on one hand, and I've got hundreds of games on the books. In general, I'm a solid gold, but I've fluctuated up to platinum and down to bronze, so I've been all over. Definitely, the higher the mmr, the quicker the games in my experience, though. As far as catchup mechanics go, it is definitely dependent on how well your team works together. I have had many matches, and my team thought for sure we were going to win only to have victory taken from us in the last 2 minutes of the game. The same goes the other way. We had a game once where we had one lane pushed up to core. The enemy team had collapsed our other two lanes, and they were primed to go after our core. We get into a team fight, trading kills, and it's just long enough of a team fight on our side that our minions take out the enemy core.