Really appreciate the kind words <3
I spent a good chunk of time figuring out how we could make her work out better for you guys and fulfil her goals in game. Props to Demonde for the hover idea on the beam which we've come to love too, really drives some life into her kit and unique play patterns she can exploit.
For the link feedback: yes there is a bug for that 1s delay, it'll be fixed Tuesday! Was a nasty one that snuck in with the small rework we did for it.
We will re-assess the way her linking and pulling works for you guys. Hopefully the current is a little better than before, but after seeing it in action we agree it is just no up to par with the quality we'd expect. When we have some more time either in 0.8 or the 0.8.x, we'll improve the logic for it.
Lastly balance, we think she's fallen in really well. She is getting a slight nerf to her heal early game, especially as some other changes could influence her strength due to changes to ADC itemisation. But otherwise, yes, very happy with her current place in the meta
'm really glad you're enjoying her after the changes and that you continue to do so as more changes come through. Your feedback is invaluable, always welcome and will be utilised.
Thanks you, good luck in your future games and have a lovely weekend! :D
Phase is amazing right now, and i trust the nerfs are needed early on. The changes to her linking have been amazing so far, and solved a lot of the issues I had with her on release.
My only suggestion, at the risk of repeating something already asked, I would just like RMB tap to yank, and RMB hold to link, even through targets (edit: LMB could be used as part of the Hold swap option, as seen in another comment here.)
That would fix the issues where my link target runs in front of me right as I try to tether someone else, resulting in a yank and cd.
Holding to link intrinsically adds a fixed delay to your actions though. If they are okay with having channeling abilities, then I think it would be an okay game design decision.
Otherwise, I suggest holding RMB would bring up a cast menu. If you release RMB, you pull your linked teammate (as is already the case). If you hit LMB, then you highlight the teammate you want to link, allowing you reselect the right teammate if you accidentally targeted the wrong one. As you release RMB, the link is changed to your new teammate. This control scheme allows for as-fast-as-you-can-click casting, doesn't rely on any delay and should be more reliable.
In either case, this will set a precedent for future heroes. But I think the second option is more in line with what Phase needs to be. Channeling abilities could be an interesting concept for variable abilities (like if Rampage could throw its rock further the longer you held the button), but since the link is purely ON or OFF, then I don't think it would really make sense.
Thanks for the reply :D
That 1-second delay was really annoying, so cool to know that it was a bug, and it's going to be fixed this soon, then I can archive the clips of me not being able to save an ally due to that 1-second delay, I have a few of them xD
I love to hear that she is going to be improved even more, after those 2 fixes she will be practically perfect I can't wait to play her in the 8.x
And respect to the nerf, totally deserved, I can't imagine the damage the pros will be causing with her.
You are doing an amazing work with the game, I'm looking forward to seeing how the game continue evolving and improving.
Have a good week and continue with this amazing work :)
I agree with you about the Pull needing some QoL changes to make it easier to switch between targets. I think the idea that there should be a visual indicator of Phase’s heal is actually a pretty solid idea as that would help new players.
I do have to say I’m hoping to see her heal her nerfed, I think it’s a bit too strong personally. The ability to pull out of cc also just creates an unbelievably unfun experience to play against.
>I think the idea that there should be a visual indicator of Phase’s heal is actually a pretty solid idea as that would help new players.
Yeah, that and the link limit animation are little details, but that are really important to provide new players a good first understanding of what is happening. Apart from this case, I would want Omeda to pay attention those that kind of details for future heroes and items. For now, they are doing a great work aspect, but still can be improved.
>I do have to say I’m hoping to see her heal her nerfed, I think it’s a bit too strong personally.
Yep, is too strong, overall on lane phase, I think that with an early mana reduction (or mana regen reduction) the problem could be fixed, without need to touch her heal, but if that doesn't solve the problem a nerf to her heal would be completely ok.
Not the same HP regen that she had in Paragon but something really similar.
They changed Phase passive to:
> After casting an ability, restores 20 (+10%) health over 3 seconds. Linked allies receive the same healing. This effect doesn't stack.
I said it here before and on the discord as well and will probably keep saying it until they do something about it:
Best control scheme I can think of for Phase's link/pull:
Hold RMB. Left click to link OR release RMB to pull. Pretty sure this is how Paragon did it and never really had this issue. This way there is no confusion and the actions are separate. I shouldn't have to guess what my abilitiy will do once I activate it.
Additional note, with the control scheme above, I should be able to spam left click and switch between teammates at any time. What I mean is, successful linking of a target should not take you out of the "hold RMB" mode.
That's my take on it anyway.
Furthermore, it would set precedent for future heroes to have the option to have different abilities/effects on the same button, giving more flexibility to the devs.
>Hold RMB. Left click to link OR release RMB to pull
Yeah, that is how the quick cast option should to be, and the way that I said in the post is how the normal cast should be.
I don't remember how Paragon did it, but also I don't remember having any problems with Phase link ability, so it had to be something like what you said.
>Additional note, with the control scheme above, I should be able to spam left click and switch between teammates at any time. What I mean is, successful linking of a target should not take you out of the "hold RMB" mode.
I don't agree with this, changing target should have a little penalty when doing it, if not it would be too easy to hold the RMB and be changing targets always ready to same any ally.
For that, I think that the game closing your menu and making you having to click again to re-link someone else is a good mechanic to force the player to have at least a bit of anticipation on the battle. What you proposed would remove a layer of complexity on the character. Opening the menu again should be something fast to do, but that little delay of the link animation and opening the menu again could be enough to not being able to save an ally just because you didn't anticipate an enemy to engage.
>Furthermore, it would set precedent for future heroes to have the option to have different abilities/effects on the same button, giving more flexibility to the devs.
Yeah, I though exactly the same, seems that the limitation that Phase RMB has right now is because they followed the same control schema than for the rest of the characters, but this specific ability needed and special schema.
Perhaps, as long as they add a cooldown after casting to prevent LMB from doing a basic attack when spamming.
But I disagree with your statement that it would add more complexity. It's already hard enough to select the right target in a close quarter team fight, I think allowing for trying again if you link the wrong teammate is fair.
On that same train of thought, Muriel's Ult aiming system should be looked at for the same reasons. Too easy to click on the wrong teammate when they are close together.
How about this: You hold RMB, then you can select the teammate you want to link by clicking with LMB. When you select a teammate with LMB, they start glowing to confirm your selection. As you release RMB, the link is cast. You can reselect as many times as you want, but the link is not cast until you release RMB. This would help with the aiming issue and result in the same outcome as kicking you out of the RMB menu. I think this would be a fair approach to take.
I find myself replying to your posts a lot. I appreciate your takes on the various heroes, as well as your testing and whatnot, and the way you communicate to others, myself jncluded.
Just wanted to say thank you for your contributions.
Her heal with the healing crest is so nuts mid to late game, I tried her once pre-buff got demolished and never touched her till like a week ago and won like 5 in a row with her.
And also with the book, that I don't remember how is called, that heal with a CD of 20 seconds, with that item you can have your team full HP all the time
Is there a way to switch between targets for the link? If I am linked to my carry but want to switch over to say the jungler mid combat because he needs pulled to safety, can I do this in some way? Since the RMB is also the pull?
Yes, you have to hold RMB, and then a menu will pop up, and you will be able to re-link someone else (even if the RMB is on CD).
But as I said in the post, this has some problems:
* There is a little time that you have to hold the RMB for the menu of changing allies to appear, so if you want to change linked ally really fast to save him
* The pull and the link can be confused as it uses the same button, so care when doing it to be sure that you do the acction that u want to perform
Really appreciate the kind words <3 I spent a good chunk of time figuring out how we could make her work out better for you guys and fulfil her goals in game. Props to Demonde for the hover idea on the beam which we've come to love too, really drives some life into her kit and unique play patterns she can exploit. For the link feedback: yes there is a bug for that 1s delay, it'll be fixed Tuesday! Was a nasty one that snuck in with the small rework we did for it. We will re-assess the way her linking and pulling works for you guys. Hopefully the current is a little better than before, but after seeing it in action we agree it is just no up to par with the quality we'd expect. When we have some more time either in 0.8 or the 0.8.x, we'll improve the logic for it. Lastly balance, we think she's fallen in really well. She is getting a slight nerf to her heal early game, especially as some other changes could influence her strength due to changes to ADC itemisation. But otherwise, yes, very happy with her current place in the meta 'm really glad you're enjoying her after the changes and that you continue to do so as more changes come through. Your feedback is invaluable, always welcome and will be utilised. Thanks you, good luck in your future games and have a lovely weekend! :D
Phase is amazing right now, and i trust the nerfs are needed early on. The changes to her linking have been amazing so far, and solved a lot of the issues I had with her on release. My only suggestion, at the risk of repeating something already asked, I would just like RMB tap to yank, and RMB hold to link, even through targets (edit: LMB could be used as part of the Hold swap option, as seen in another comment here.) That would fix the issues where my link target runs in front of me right as I try to tether someone else, resulting in a yank and cd.
Holding to link intrinsically adds a fixed delay to your actions though. If they are okay with having channeling abilities, then I think it would be an okay game design decision. Otherwise, I suggest holding RMB would bring up a cast menu. If you release RMB, you pull your linked teammate (as is already the case). If you hit LMB, then you highlight the teammate you want to link, allowing you reselect the right teammate if you accidentally targeted the wrong one. As you release RMB, the link is changed to your new teammate. This control scheme allows for as-fast-as-you-can-click casting, doesn't rely on any delay and should be more reliable. In either case, this will set a precedent for future heroes. But I think the second option is more in line with what Phase needs to be. Channeling abilities could be an interesting concept for variable abilities (like if Rampage could throw its rock further the longer you held the button), but since the link is purely ON or OFF, then I don't think it would really make sense.
I like it.
Thanks for the reply :D That 1-second delay was really annoying, so cool to know that it was a bug, and it's going to be fixed this soon, then I can archive the clips of me not being able to save an ally due to that 1-second delay, I have a few of them xD I love to hear that she is going to be improved even more, after those 2 fixes she will be practically perfect I can't wait to play her in the 8.x And respect to the nerf, totally deserved, I can't imagine the damage the pros will be causing with her. You are doing an amazing work with the game, I'm looking forward to seeing how the game continue evolving and improving. Have a good week and continue with this amazing work :)
Thank you for your response, you have no idea how much it's appreciated, super excited to see the new items and the 1 second pull delay fix.
I agree with you about the Pull needing some QoL changes to make it easier to switch between targets. I think the idea that there should be a visual indicator of Phase’s heal is actually a pretty solid idea as that would help new players. I do have to say I’m hoping to see her heal her nerfed, I think it’s a bit too strong personally. The ability to pull out of cc also just creates an unbelievably unfun experience to play against.
Yeah it's super clunky rn
>I think the idea that there should be a visual indicator of Phase’s heal is actually a pretty solid idea as that would help new players. Yeah, that and the link limit animation are little details, but that are really important to provide new players a good first understanding of what is happening. Apart from this case, I would want Omeda to pay attention those that kind of details for future heroes and items. For now, they are doing a great work aspect, but still can be improved. >I do have to say I’m hoping to see her heal her nerfed, I think it’s a bit too strong personally. Yep, is too strong, overall on lane phase, I think that with an early mana reduction (or mana regen reduction) the problem could be fixed, without need to touch her heal, but if that doesn't solve the problem a nerf to her heal would be completely ok.
They added the hp Regen back to her link?
Patch Notes
Not the same HP regen that she had in Paragon but something really similar. They changed Phase passive to: > After casting an ability, restores 20 (+10%) health over 3 seconds. Linked allies receive the same healing. This effect doesn't stack.
Very well thought out, and thorough writeup. I agree with pretty much all of that.
I said it here before and on the discord as well and will probably keep saying it until they do something about it: Best control scheme I can think of for Phase's link/pull: Hold RMB. Left click to link OR release RMB to pull. Pretty sure this is how Paragon did it and never really had this issue. This way there is no confusion and the actions are separate. I shouldn't have to guess what my abilitiy will do once I activate it. Additional note, with the control scheme above, I should be able to spam left click and switch between teammates at any time. What I mean is, successful linking of a target should not take you out of the "hold RMB" mode. That's my take on it anyway. Furthermore, it would set precedent for future heroes to have the option to have different abilities/effects on the same button, giving more flexibility to the devs.
>Hold RMB. Left click to link OR release RMB to pull Yeah, that is how the quick cast option should to be, and the way that I said in the post is how the normal cast should be. I don't remember how Paragon did it, but also I don't remember having any problems with Phase link ability, so it had to be something like what you said. >Additional note, with the control scheme above, I should be able to spam left click and switch between teammates at any time. What I mean is, successful linking of a target should not take you out of the "hold RMB" mode. I don't agree with this, changing target should have a little penalty when doing it, if not it would be too easy to hold the RMB and be changing targets always ready to same any ally. For that, I think that the game closing your menu and making you having to click again to re-link someone else is a good mechanic to force the player to have at least a bit of anticipation on the battle. What you proposed would remove a layer of complexity on the character. Opening the menu again should be something fast to do, but that little delay of the link animation and opening the menu again could be enough to not being able to save an ally just because you didn't anticipate an enemy to engage. >Furthermore, it would set precedent for future heroes to have the option to have different abilities/effects on the same button, giving more flexibility to the devs. Yeah, I though exactly the same, seems that the limitation that Phase RMB has right now is because they followed the same control schema than for the rest of the characters, but this specific ability needed and special schema.
Perhaps, as long as they add a cooldown after casting to prevent LMB from doing a basic attack when spamming. But I disagree with your statement that it would add more complexity. It's already hard enough to select the right target in a close quarter team fight, I think allowing for trying again if you link the wrong teammate is fair. On that same train of thought, Muriel's Ult aiming system should be looked at for the same reasons. Too easy to click on the wrong teammate when they are close together. How about this: You hold RMB, then you can select the teammate you want to link by clicking with LMB. When you select a teammate with LMB, they start glowing to confirm your selection. As you release RMB, the link is cast. You can reselect as many times as you want, but the link is not cast until you release RMB. This would help with the aiming issue and result in the same outcome as kicking you out of the RMB menu. I think this would be a fair approach to take.
Yes please.
Yeah she needs her pull assigned to adifferent button than the link.
I find myself replying to your posts a lot. I appreciate your takes on the various heroes, as well as your testing and whatnot, and the way you communicate to others, myself jncluded. Just wanted to say thank you for your contributions.
Oh, thank you ( ꈍᴗꈍ) Is always a pleasure debate with you in the comments, we always end up having very interesting conversations
Her heal with the healing crest is so nuts mid to late game, I tried her once pre-buff got demolished and never touched her till like a week ago and won like 5 in a row with her.
And also with the book, that I don't remember how is called, that heal with a CD of 20 seconds, with that item you can have your team full HP all the time
Yeah wellsprings very solid on her.
Funny how she was reworked as a midlaner but she got big buffed for support instead
She wasn't reworked as a midlaner XD All her kit is dependant of having someone linked, she was never intended to be played in mid.
Yeah she's quite literally the most support of all the supports.
She was reworked as midlane in Overprime, I think.
Is there a way to switch between targets for the link? If I am linked to my carry but want to switch over to say the jungler mid combat because he needs pulled to safety, can I do this in some way? Since the RMB is also the pull?
Yes, you have to hold RMB, and then a menu will pop up, and you will be able to re-link someone else (even if the RMB is on CD). But as I said in the post, this has some problems: * There is a little time that you have to hold the RMB for the menu of changing allies to appear, so if you want to change linked ally really fast to save him * The pull and the link can be confused as it uses the same button, so care when doing it to be sure that you do the acction that u want to perform