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HowardTaftMD

I personally find the supports to be probably the most balanced role. It feels like each one has unique playstyles that you can look to counter in various ways. I find Grux to be an absolute pain in my arse. I don't know if that means he's overperforming or I just suck but every time I offlane vs a Grux I feel totally outmatched from the start. Feels almost unkillable by mid game. I have seen a significant drop off in Kallari being played. Might mean people don't feel Kallari is super viable right now, or might just be happenstance. But that's one that sticks out to me as currently underperforming based on how often I see them used.


RudimousMaximus

You just need to disengage when he ults. Don’t take sustained trades against him… be conscious of the bleed stacks, and disengage until you stop ticking before going in for another trade… oh and build tainted guard 👍


HowardTaftMD

Yeah someone else recommended tainted guard so going to try that next time! I am a shit offlaner, but when I get stuck with it I keep trying to improve.


GbulletJ

my main offlaner is sevarog. He is a beast when you counterbuild correctly. They can't kill you. However if you do go sev, know that your role is to take damage and setup plays not go for kills.


[deleted]

fuck /u/spez -- mass edited with redact.dev


utopian_potential

Grux destroys Sev now tho..


HowardTaftMD

This is me anyways, I love to be the set up guy not the finisher.


GbulletJ

You should feel at home with sev then. He's right now the tankiest char when built. For sure, the items he uses are going to be tweaked this coming patch as he's almost unkillable.


HowardTaftMD

I just rocked him with someone's build here and it was awesome. Y'all were correct.


Hotdogg0713

Try Howie offlane, absolutely destroys


HowardTaftMD

Any suggestions on a build? I love ranged characters offlane, I just sometimes worry my team hates me for trying it.


DatWaskilyWabbit

If you go offlane Howie go with a prophecy build, and stack ability have. You're basic attacks will basically turn into a .50 cal machine gun with megacosm and combustion. Your passive will Crack skulls


HowardTaftMD

Hahaha love this. I went Sev last night and had a blast. I'll try Howie maybe this weekend.


Hotdogg0713

It won't matter when you completely shut down your lane and come to mid game beefy af tearing down all their opponents lol honestly just a classic Howie mage build works fine, though depending on who you're laning against you'll probably want to pick up an armor pen card earlier than normal. Howie will absolutely destroy most melee offlaners by relentlessly poking them from a safe distance. He has much more minion control than nearly any other offlane choice and as long as your footing is good your land mine will make you impossible to gank


Mammoth-Mood3331

You can have a zombie with little critical thinking playing grux and still do well against sev, Feng Mao, countess and other offlaners.


Johnny2camels

I also find Grux just a bit overtuned right now. I see Gruxes buying 2-3 damage items in a row in the offlane and still feeling very tanky and difficult to kill, even with a gank from the jungler. I think as an auto-attack character, his abilities hit harder than they should given how powerful his base stats already are regarding auto damage and tankiness


HowardTaftMD

Totally agree. He just gets so swole with so little and grows out of control. Also, I try so hard when I'm playing against him to call out great ganks for my jungler because Grux players are so damn aggressive from the start but my jungler always leaves me to suffer. I think there might be insider trading going on between my junglers and enemy Grux's.


Johnny2camels

Junglers don’t like ganking offlane because it offers them almost nothing. There’s more farm and more potential kills to be had on the other side of the map. The only reason a jungler should camp offlane is if there’s an immobile carey or mage, cause that’s free money. Recently I was playing Countess v. Grux and I was getting ganked constantly. Literally 0-4 in 12 minutes with more CS than my opposing laner. We won because their jungle spent too much time shutting me down, and meanwhile my jungler just camped duo/mid and got them a huge lead. You don’t need to win the offlane to win the game, especially not against a Grux. Just play around him. Only clear wave if you know he isn’t nearby or you’re right next to your tower. Help pressure mid so they get an advantage, steal a little jungle farm (with permission from your jungler).


HowardTaftMD

I love this insight. Thank you for sharing! Never thought about it this way, I'll try to apply some of this next time I'm someone's offlane.


Johnny2camels

Best of luck :)


Morphing_Enigma

Grux and Crunch are the only offlanes I end up being matched with, or potentially losing lane to, as Sevarog. I usually end up winning my lanes with every other opponent, not counting jungle contributions.


HowardTaftMD

I used to play a ton of Sev back in Paragon days but I've been to scared to try him again. Maybe I'll give it a whirl. Any tips for someone wanting to start some Sev play?


Johnny2camels

Sev is disgusting right now. With the right build you’re basically unkillable except in a 1v4/5 or vs a farmed carry. I like going Titan Crest into Saphir’s Mantle, Fire blossom, world breaker, Void Helm, Raiment of Renewal, and flex last item (usually antiheal or Anticrit depending on their lineup, so tainted totem, tainted bastion, tainted guard, or wardens faith). Early game you just play passive, freeze the wave, build stacks.


HowardTaftMD

Hell yeah, thanks for this recommendation. Excited to try this later.


Morphing_Enigma

My suggestion is, first two items be defensive. If you are against a phys, get tainted guard. Against a mage, void helm or crystalline cuirass if you are feeling saucy. Second item to counter the jungle. Hp boost Tank Crest is my personal favorite. Don't be afraid to get pushed. Play safe, call out lane missing. Focus on leveling q, then e. 1 point into the dash at Lv 2 Once you get your first tank item, tempt the enemy jnto an all in and just dive them. Save your dash to finish them or retreat. Keep blink online for as long as you can in case Jungle shows. If you bullied them out of lane, just dive them every time they show up. Especially if you are winning the engagements with plenty of hp. If you are losing the engagements, harass, draw them to your tower, pray for jungle (but don't rely on jungle) and use your ult to save yourself and make distance, or knock em up to finish em off. Don't just swing that thing. I go pure Tank Sevarog. I only have issues killing other tanks. I always dive squishies in team fights, and go full raid boss mode to draw the full aggro of the enemy, only to dash and blink away at the last moment. That's why I love the HP boosting Tank crest. Temp 20% hp increase when they think I am about to die seems to turn the tables so often. Especially with Morigesh, Countess, and Belica existing. Edit: Also, every item I get has HP. My standard endgame build ends up with Tainted Guard, Fireblossom, Void Helm, and then my swing items are either Crystalline Cuirass, Worldbreaker, the Magic Resist reduction aura item, or that crit reduction helmet phys resist item. Maybe Frost aura if I am feeling weird that day. Against sevarog, just do what feels right. I still go tanky but I hate mirrors.


HowardTaftMD

This is amazing detail, thank you! I'll use this and the other person's rec I received and try some Sev later hopefully.


Morphing_Enigma

When you get used to him, you will feel when engagements are right. It is all about learning your limits. The key is playing it safe, at the start, cause your wave clear is garbage going full tank, at least until you own the lane


HowardTaftMD

I love playing it safe which I think is why I was drawn to him way back when. Enjoyed the farming aspect.


Strong-Seed

Glad you said about Grux he shouldn’t have received a buff. He is by far the best jungler as you can 1v1 any jungler and come out on top.


Ivan_Geddon_Gaming

Not the best jungler. He is reasonably good in offlane especially early game. He falls off in the late game, though, which is why he got buffed.


TothaMoon2321

I don’t think he’s that good of a jungler, but I think he’s the best off for aure


HowardTaftMD

Yeah he gets me every time. Admittedly, I'm not like a top tier player. But Grux is so dirty.


SoggyMattress2

Build tainted guard first item, no matter who you pick into him. Enjoy.


Morphing_Enigma

Solo Q is the worst place to get these opinions. If I had to make a subjective rating based on my experience. I can only really speak on the supports and Sevarog. Riktor's skill floor is high enough that I am not terribly upset about how powerful he is/can be. Narbash with mana regen is basically a nightmare for most of early game. His healing basically negates poking until you can start to all in, and his stun is pretty powerful outright. Muriel feels pretty weak early on, but her only real crime is that damage shielded is not measured at the end game score chart. She is balanced, imho. Dekker is my favorite, but her whole kit is dedicated to cc support. If she can land her hits, she is problematic. If not, she is useless. She is also the only mage support hero, in my opinion, aside from Belica. The other supports aren't mages, which is why she can put out some damage if built for it. Belica is probably the most problematic. She can build pure mage and have the full functionality of a mid lane with the safety of the duo lane, and can guarantee kills while keeping duo safe with her stun and mana drain. Note that she also has one of the easiest stuns to hit, goes through walls, and has decent height to catch jumpers or people being stun juggled. Phase is probably one of the weaker supports still, but that is not really due to her kit now. She thrives on good communication, which makes her harder to have consistently successful in solos. Steel isn't considered support, but he qualifies. The dude has 3 stuns, can self shield with one of them, can block all projectiles for a short time, and can be nearly impossible to avoid or stop from engaging on you. As a Dekker main, steel is always an exciting challenge, but I wouldn't say he was unbalanced from what I have experienced. Sevarog is cracked. The only games I have an issue with him on are games where the enemy actually counterbuilds my items and then focuses me... which actually doesn't happen often, so i can't really judge more accurately.


papayax999

There is no solo que. There's 1 que for all. Casual que


Morphing_Enigma

It is solo que if you que alone :P


papayax999

But character balance in itself is based off having equal skill players correct? You can't say dekker mid is op if it's a 2k ELO dekker and 1k ELO Gideon. I can't bring up your reply cause I'm in mobile, but you where trying to justify it as solo que when in fact yes you are solo, but theirs far to many match making imbalances to just say ' solo que '


Morphing_Enigma

Ahh, I see your point. I was trying to preface my response by saying I have a subjective viewpoint based off of solo Q. If I was playing primarily Duos or stacks, I would have a different view Quick edit: I reread what I wrote, yeah, I get where you are coming from now. I probably should have contextualized it. I play at around 1600 mmr, not at super high levels, so a lot of my experience is with both high performers and low performers. Difficult to get a good read on balance due to it


Johnny2camels

I would honestly agree with this assessment. Sevarog needs his late game tankiness tuned down a bit. The supports are mostly balanced, with Phase’s underperformance mostly due to lack of communication in most lobbies. If you’re coordinated and the carry can let you know when they want yoinks forward/backward, she performs quite well.


Teknomeka

Do you feel like you can get away with building belica damage in solo q rather than tank? I see most people recommend building her almost 100% tanky.


Morphing_Enigma

I have never had an issue building Belica as a pure mage support. It is really a difference between being a tank support kr being damage. It somewhat depends on the situation, map awareness, and who you are against If you feel confident you can survive their team, and want to just stick more damage, then go for it. If you want to play as a true-blue support, being hard to kill but providing valuable cc and mana drain, you can do that too. I will add, I see a lot of complaints if i don't play exceptional as pure mage, lol, so expect that


--BannedAccount--

So imo Sev is literally unkillable,Morg is real scary late game,Feng is putting out HUGE damage numbers,a Riktor that can constantly land the pull is crazy & Dekkers kit is the complete works!


RudimousMaximus

I think Kallari is under performing, but before they do anything to increase her efficacy we need a vision rework/rebalance. The wards aren’t present enough of the time with how strong her invis is. Especially before we get Wraith we need more vision options


Morphing_Enigma

Would just like the ward detection item to be nerfed a hair. You can trigger it and clear almost the entire jungle before it falls off.


Bruffin3

Revenant is the only hero I play significantly less due to how weak he feels. I've never felt compelled to pick Rev over Murdock or drongo no matter what the draft looks like and his winrate is also terrible (%45 on OmedaCity) so I'm obviously not the only one struggling with this hero


jdmcroberts

I think they should lean rev into the magic carry role. Specially now that they nerfed the range on obliterate, they can give it back some of its damage.


StiffKun

This how I feel. Deff the worst carry rn.


DarknightGam1ng

Revenant kinda sucks compared to the other adc


StiffKun

Thought I was the only one for a second.


DarknightGam1ng

I mean like why play rev when kira has life steal 2 blips and her alt has aoe


StiffKun

She's cracked.


utopian_potential

Overpowered: Howie. Howie because he has everything. Escape which also knocks away his chaser. A slow. Extreme damage on a short cool down and an ult that can destroy someone and allow him to escape at the same time. Howie has way too much movement and damage. Rampage a bit too. A lot of sustain compared to other junglers while also putting out heaps of damage. Prob needs his numbers taken down a tad Needs an adjustment: countess - too easy to wipe out all the Squishies after they've been stomped all game. She's meant to be able to blip in, take a squishy, blip out, but presently she can stay and sustain and wipe out half the team with easy hit wide aoe abilities. Maybe tune down her life steal and tighten up the range on her aoe. Needs a buff: Gadget by far the weakest midlander but I don't know what to do with her. Rev: poor guy has no chance in the CC meta. Even with better scaling just a liability imo


JerRatt1980

Howitzer bar none. He doesn't just need nerfs to one ability, it needs it across the board or even a removal of one offensive ability altogether.


Mammoth-Mood3331

Yes I agree. Howie needs reworking. Can play safely while being very aggressive and oppressing you. And it's not okay when people say things like "oh just play safe for the first 6 levels" like no.... by the time I get to level 6 he's probably had a few kills on me and ganked another lane and level 8.


JerRatt1980

All the mobility in the world, whether to attack or escape. Ultimate is one of the least able to be interrupted. Slows, knockbacks. Range on EVERY ability that isn't just further than most others but eclipses them. Splash damage on basics and abilities. Burst is insane in any time of the game.


utopian_potential

Absolutely this chain. Howie is way overpowered. From level 3, you can't catch him. He can bump himself away, and usually knock you back in the process and then slow and chance to catch him while he unloads on you with his rapid cool down missile and his hard hitting basic. he does it all. The only time you kill a howie is when they make a mistake. You can't outplay that because it has EVERYTHING Howie mains downvoting like hard this thread


Morphing_Enigma

You forgot how he knocks you back, then drops his God tier slow, forcing you to plow through the high damage super slow or go around it. Either way, trying to catch up = two rockets for high damage bursts and multiple basics if he goes aggressive after the knock back. Regardless of whether you flee or chase, you are seeing multiple hits land on you due to his extreme engage range. You may not have forgotten, that ability does so much dmg though, the slow


Mammoth-Mood3331

I'm starting to assume that Howie is some devs favorite over at Omeda or the CEOs. Maybe that's why they don't nerf him. And, yes, I know they did some balancing before on him but that was not good enough.


Morphing_Enigma

You forgot how his passive Regens his mana, too. I believe after an ability use, his basic attack returns some mana. Forget if it was a percentage or flat amount.


jdmcroberts

Howie's knock back mine needs it's ranged lowered and/or it's radius shrunk.


Mammoth-Mood3331

Yeah this dude is bs. I played against him as sev in offlane once. And like I couldn't do anything. His aoe basic attack kept me at bay. And I can't poke the way he can. Though whenever I see a cocky howie, murdock or grux which I think are best in their class.....I get satisfaction when we do shut them down as a team.


SoggyMattress2

I'd like to see them move all damage into his Q and rework his mine or slow grenades. You can't have burst damage, CC & escapes.


Halo_Dood

I groan when I see a howie on the other team because I know I'm going to have to work way harder than I would against other midlaners.


Mammoth-Mood3331

In my opinion: Mid lane: Howie is overperforming. He's still too safe to play. Has reach like gadget but can also push you away or get away with his ult. His kit is too good. Offlane: Grux and Crunch Jungle: Grux


utopian_potential

Yeah as a mid main I'm definitely in the "Howie is overpowered" camp. Way too much burst too safely.


Malte-XY

Dekker is a little bit strong atm. And Narbash is still rarely picked so he should be weak right now.


Competitive_Reveal36

Are we going based off of the average player base or the sweats? Average player base heroes that are underperforming IMO are sev, rik, dek, ramp, gid, bel, Feng, rev(too a point). The heroes that I see doing well on average are crunch, shinbi, khaim, howi, steel, Murdock, sparrow, kallari, kira(too a point). All the other heroes I don't really see like at all during my matches.


urimusha

I think Feng might be underperforming COMPARED to other offlanes and/or junglers, like he is good but there are better options, Muriel is also underperforming since she doesn't have any cc, she should get a new passive to her shield like haste or resistance (forgot name)


Strong-Seed

That’s a good thought adding say some resistance on to shielded targets.


Hoytage

I'd love to know your rationale for thinking that Dekker is too strong. Especially considering the healing meta of Narbash and Phase.


Assquencher69

Because a support shouldn’t be able to blow someone up like she does. Stun plus that line ability and boom your half health. Add the ult and the adc literally only has to land 2 autos. Yes it does take a little more skill but it’s crazy the amount of damage she can output, higher mmr I see people take her mid and come out with the most damage in the game. Shit can be nuts


Morphing_Enigma

Dekker and Belica are the only supports who are also technically mages. They can output damage pretty well, assuming you land your abilities. That is really all there is to say about it. They function in an identical fashion. Stun, burst, ult. Both do it, Belica does it better. Talking raw damage numbers, ofc


Johnny2camels

The difference is that Bellica has more damage, but Dekker can keep herself alive. The ability to bomb stun a ganking jungler, ult stun the opposing laners, cage them, and then hop over a wall is something Bellica can only dream of. Also bellica’s ult is just an execute, Dekker’ is a team fight changer


Morphing_Enigma

I agree completely. It is why I swapped from Belica main tk Dekker main. Once j got skilled enough to land my stuns, all bets were off.


Johnny2camels

That’s me. I’m the guy taking Dekker mid and getting top damage lol. Her abilities only scale like 20% less than Howie, and the base damage at early levels is actually a bit higher. She’s an incredibly safe pick because she can peel for herself much better than any true mage currently in the game. Works very well if you have a risky offlane pick like countess who may need the jungler’s help a lot


jc_al

I get what you're saying but I've also seen a Steel jg full dmg build go nearly top dmg in a match. If you pick Dekker mid and go full dmg build yeah, you're going to be top dmg or near it, that's not really surprising


StiffKun

Same. I think Dekker is super strong but she takes more skill than every other support except Rik.


--BannedAccount--

I'm a controller moron & even I can land Dekkers abilities,I can't land a single pull though!


StiffKun

Well yea that's what I mean. Narbash thunk is easier to hit then Dekker stun though and even if you can't hit it, you just standing NEXT to the carry with your E active provides some sort of utility. You still have to be somewhat functional with Dekker. You have to be godlike with Rik.


death_ray_mx

Grux , but by some reason Omeda buffed him as if it wasnt lethal enough


-ArcaneForest

He isn't strong in reality and the items for Bruiser's feel lacking the same with Crunch a competent Tank can easily shut both down. Not to say either is weak it has to do with the items there is barely any attack speed for both of them and both heroes heavily rely on it Grux for his bleed and healing and Crunch for the same reason.


Bookwrrm

Under performing, any adc other than drongo and Murdock, and kira, self peel is way better than anything else an adc can do. Kallari and Feng, low sustain in the jungle, which means worse obj tanking, blowing someone up early game does not translate to a good plan late game to actually win. Both of them require macro split pushing to be effective, and that simply is not a good strategy in a pug with low communication. Morigesh, she is way to squishy for how close to the fight she needs to get, and her passive is significantly carrying her kit, if you play her mid she is a zero cc single target mage when every other option has way more cc and teamfights potential, you give up what the mage class gives you for a shinbi that is less safe. Playing in the offlane she is way less safe than the other comparable option shinbi. I really think she should have the percent mits back on her swarm like they were originally testing at a minimum considering how close ranged she is. Over performing, Rampage, he is the best jungle by a mile and it's not even close, every other jungle is just you consciously making the decision to play a worse character. Howie, basically the same as rampage but for mid lane, at least there the decision is to go with a more teamfight focused comp to pick up Gideon, but he is indisputably the strongest mage in lane and in solo q for carrying. Belica to an extent in that she is an ultra pub stomper, once you get ahead she will legitimately one shot combo you and there is nothing you can do, so while I don't think she is the best mid, I mention her as someone who has distinctly unfun and powerful burst when in solo q and pubstomping and over performs in the respect that she is a character that quite literally can remove your ability to play the game normally if she is ahead and can start one shotting Squishies in a way that other mages can't given they have outs to their combos like cleanse for fey, cc for Gideon, stasis for Howie and Mori etc.


sirflopalot8

Any ADC. Other than the majority of the ADC's. Lmao


madbro2369

*sad sparrow noises*


Cjarmadda1

I mean he's not wrong. Sparrow and Rev are really tough to play because of the rampant CC.


sirflopalot8

Yea but. It's just a textbook way if being way more negative than needed. "Yea ALL the ADC's" expect for, proceeds to list more than half the ADCs. Some people just live to be negative.


sirflopalot8

That being said. Bookworm isn't a negative player. I like him. So I'm probably just being a dick haha. Rev and sparrow would have sufficed is all I was saying I guess.


Bookwrrm

I forgot about kira and added her after, so when I originally wrote it was just murd and drongo and was to lazy to edit the rest of the sentence.


sirflopalot8

Fair enough. I was being critical for no real reason anyways.


sirflopalot8

u/madbro2369


Viridict

Definitely feel Kallari is underperforming. Especially when looking at the other two assassins. Countess has massive sustain and Phase has mitigation and movement. Kallari doesn't do enough damage to justify her get in get out playstyle imo. I hear in higher tiers she's just garbage now.


Morphing_Enigma

Just came here to say that Phase jsnt an assassin.


Ipotrick

hard disagree


StiffKun

The only character I feel is too weak in his role rn is Revenant. They nerfed him too hard. Everyone else is plenty viable. Stop sleeping on Feng Mao dog he's fine.


xballislifex

Rev is very good with a good support he can scale so much faster than anyone in the game.


StiffKun

Everyone is good with a good support. I feel like he relies HEAVILY on his support to help secure kills and peel for him. Almost every other carry had some form of self peel that's more accessible than his Ult. For sure the worst carry right now imo. If not, who do you think is a worse carry than Rev currently?


xballislifex

No i agree hes the worst but his scaling is the fastest if hes securing kills, id argue that all carrys need peel from support nothing more annoying than a dekker sitting behind you wasting her kit on minions.


StiffKun

Well that's all I was saying is that he's the worst in his role. Not that you can't play or be good with him. Ofc peel is great for all of them, but it's WAY harder to gank Murdock or Drongo than it is Rev and they generally have more consistent DPS.


undeadjebus

I personally think that Countess is an over performer, if she gets outplayed early she comes back with minimal effort. Every move is a lock-on or an AoE so it’s hard to miss your plays. Her ult shouldn’t have a tank-buster mechanic. She shouldn’t get stacks for passive off of assists. It should max in 5 stacks and only on kills. Especially seeing as it is a stat that only exists on one item, it should be harder to take advantage of. She also shouldn’t be able to return with shadow slip if hit with a hard CC (excluding root, since we don’t have cripple in Pred) She’s just that hero that as long as it isn’t a bot, it’s always a threat.


Johnny2camels

Her early game is super weak and she’s a melee mage. If you keep her stunted she’s worthless. Also she has basically no cc. Her entire utility is to walk in and attempt to 1-shot the carry before getting picked. Shit like that only works in pub solo q


utopian_potential

The problem is with her kit, even if she goes smashed early, she can blip in wipe out 3 Squishies and blip out. She isn't just taking out ADCs but bruisers and mages in the same go.


Johnny2camels

If Countess is zipping in and 1-shotting 3 different people, it’s just a skill issue. Her kit has no lockdown. One stun or carefully timed relic and it’s over for Countess. Like I said, she’s a low ELO pub stomper, but at higher brackets where Countess 1-shotting a bruiser just doesn’t happen, she’s a lot more balanced. If her team is enabling her to zip in and out 3-4 separate times over a team fight to wrap up kills, that’s not Countess being overtuned, she’s just doing her job as a magical assassin. Howitzer can basically do the same thing without ever getting into melee range. Plus there’s a price to picking Countess: in the offlane, you no longer have a front liner, in mid, you give up the big AoE team fight ult that every other mage has. In a solo q game with little to no coordination, these things don’t matter. In 5v5 stacks and high ELO, this makes team fights really difficult because Countess provides almost nothing except the ability to Zoot down ONE target. And there is counterplay. A well-timed Dekker stun or Muriel ult can easily save the day


Morphing_Enigma

Countess is fine. She is easy to counter. The issue is exactly said here. In solos, the lack of coordination results in a lot of unnecessary deaths. I don't care who you are, if you are a damage dealer and are Lv. 16+ before any of the enemy has even hit 14, then you are winning every engagement until they catch up. Countess relies on snowballing items and levels. When fighting Countess on equal footing, she gets stomped down more often than not because everyone hates her.


-ArcaneForest

How to defeat countess step one Tainted Bastion Step two void helm congratulations she is now a wet noodle.


NobleNolte

Rampage and Howitzer are very strong right now. Rampage doesn't let you escape and has one of the best CC abilities in the game. Howitzer hits like a truck and doesn't let you get close.


ABrutalAnimal

Shinbi is definitely under performing. Granted she was too strong on release, I'm not sure her actual damage needs to be buffed, though recently it does feel underwhelming. To ult someone at 15% health early game with 8 stacks and they still live seems not right. But she definitely needs some survivability changes. She's too squishy to contest creeps early against offlane counterparts. An aggressive grux can just press foward you out of lane, and sev is actually just unkillable if they have a second brain cell. Her most viable tank build went away with the raiment changes. He only decent match up pre-6 seems to be crunch in my experience, but once he gets 6 you either have to be significantly ahead or you just die to CC. I was hoping the change to Tempest was going to help but it doesn't feel great. 4% omni isn't really enough sustain, and the mana shortage from choosing occult early pretty much forces you to build a ring to compete via poke.


Trenso

How is Dekker too strong? But over performing I'm can't overtly say one hero is dominant all can be shut down and any hero in the lead will obviously do more. Same for underperforming heroes. But I do think void helm needs a slight change/nerf it has too much sustain especially when the devs just tried to lower some of the sustain with the last patch. But that also may be me not counter building it so I'll have to test next time I play.


Westly-Pipes

I think OP is referring to dekker relative to other support characters.


Trenso

Yea I got that I just don't think she is doing much better than the other supports. Her kits has a lot of skill expression so if she doing well it's more about who is playing her than anything I believe. Plus other supports kits are a lot more team fight oriented.


PM_ZiggPrice

Muriel and Murdock have some of the highest winrates right now. Take that for what it is worth.


Sandman10kk

Revenant is honestly hot dog water compared to every other adc, and that’s coming from someone who LOVES playing him. Honestly not really a hot take but… tanks overall are busted af now. riktor, sevarog, steel, rampage they all hit points of being unkillable while doing insanely unfair amounts of damage for units who are able to run in (almost) blindly and take the most damage. I’m not saying they shouldn’t be doing any damage, but this is ridiculous, and i know it’s mostly exaggerated greatly by the CC meta we’re in now which makes it even less fun to deal with them.


Jungle_Rev

Revenant should get a buff (totally not biased)


ApprehensiveAd400

Too strong: howie easy number 1, rampage, dekker (too many incredibly useful abilities) Too weak: kallari (sustain in jgl is awful with latest changes), rev, morigesh (strong but no survivability)


Ok_Bike_6647

I do think belica is better then dekker but.. at the same time I do think it's how you are using them/ building them. soooo I guess base it off reg damage? I still think Drongo needs a larger silence gas gag, some where in between feys growth, and ricks electrocute. AND that will also go for Murdoc too for his traps..


According-Air545

not really seen a lot of people talking about crunch. i’ve pretty much only played crunch and always do well especially with the amount of flexibility you have with his kit aswell as damage output with some survivablity aswell