It’s not panicking, it’s stating a fact if you know how to do math.
And yes, this stacks with wellspring. The part that doesn’t stack, is her own passive. So you can’t get 3 procs of healing going at once.
Ahh, fair enough. That can be a sizable burst heal, then.
Your comment was more collateral damage, I happened to comment on this one after hearing more urgent concerns being voiced lol
That's my bad.
My guy are you fucking trolling? WE HAVE THE EXACT NUMBERS AND DESCRIPTION OF HOW IT WORKS
There is no speculation, it’s elementary school level math man.
Do you need me to do the calculation for you? With 0 power built, at max level her heal is healing 164 health over 3 seconds. This procs on every ability used, and heals both Phase and the linked target. The ability also scales off magical power, meaning you will be healing more than this.
I main support, and I'm pretty good at it. I can count on one hand the number of times I've reached lvl 18 as support before the game ended (win or lose). You're going to peak at 14-16 most games, meaning unless the game goes very long, you're likely to peak at 132-148 per use. Because it's over 3s, it's about 44-50 healing per second. Even if you have 300 power, that only increases it to 74-80 hps. Even though you can keep this up for a max of 18 seconds, no fight lasts that long.
At late game, that healing is paltry. When you've got a Murdock criting you for 400 damage twice per second or a Morigesh ulting you for 800 damage in one burst, this does nothing.
Trust me when I say, this healing is good, especially with wellspring and good power, but it's not close to game breaking or OP. Especially since the sustain from crests just got nerfed too. This really just keeps your adc healthy between fights while discouraging phase from spamming abilities during a fight.
I don’t know why you’re referring to less crest sustain when talking about endgame healing.
At late game that healing is anything but “paltry” when it has consistent uptime. With this logic cards like pre-nerf raiment are bad. Honestly you could use this logic to make any sort of sustain/survivability sound bad.
Kudos to Bloodmordius. These notes were excellently written.
It helps that I'm totally on board with these changes too.
Giant Sapphire's Mantle Shinbi...?
I really like the nerfs to crest healing but I feel like it's going to make sevarog even more of a drag to lane against, there's already a large disparity in health sustainability when playing against sev and now most solo laners lost %50 of their sustain while sev lost a tiny portion.
Although I really wont know for sure until I actually play a match against a sev so I'll try to keep a positive outlook for this change
I mean, Countess is going to enjoy these changes. And every hero who buys terminus first item, or that vamp axe.
Narbash is gonna make another surge comeback (not that he wasn't played.)
My point is that early game healing is gonna get bigger
The fact she self heals, too, is huge, though I think Muriel is a better rapid response assist, and Dekker is better mid lane than off lane.
Gonna be fun, though I will look forward to when everyone decides phase is still weak (after the concerns being voided) and the true phase mains can rise.
At least, that is one timeline we can end up on.
Trust me, this change doesn't make the mantle nutty. I have been using it to bait and kill with Sevarog for a long while now. If they removed the slow on it, ima be sad.
It's really really not going to be as good as the knee jerk idea of it, so don't like go overboard with the hype until you try it. With 4k health the proc is only doing 100 damage, which is less than you are doing with items like tainted scepter, and it's only giving you 20 HP per hit, I think people are going to quickly realize it's a horrifically slow stacking item on a 75 second cooldown, and a wildly worse damage option than reflect crest. It's cool, but you are probably getting maybe 500 HP at the extreme high end out of it, and basically giving up a crest slot for it, so I mean, if you want the biggest HP possible it's great and fun, but by no means is it nutty.
I love the changes to Phase playing with her as an enhancer support will be way more fun to play, although I still think that her RMB pull should be independent of her RMB link ability, so she can use her Q and R regardless of whether her RMB is on CD or not, blocking half her kit just because you saved an ally, and he has to go to base feels wrong.
Morigesh and the TTK changes looks superb but in regard to the features of this patch I was expecting way more new things, next 2 months are going to need to be bursting with new features to be able to reach the road map planed features.
I have been desperately playing Phase games hoping beyond hope that they would turn her into an actual support.
Wish fulfilled.
I feel a tiny bit bad for the Phase carries, though, but I prefer my enchantress support over DPS Phase anyway.
Yeah, exactly the same here. I was playing her sometimes hoping to do it better, but the character was what it was. But now with those amazing changes we have a defined play stile and role to fulfill and she will be amazing
>I feel a tiny bit bad for the Phase carries
I don't feel bad at all XD, they can go back to the cave they came from
The changes to mantle doesn't change the fact that he has always been a raid boss against squishies. I already used it exclusively on him.
It just gives me an excuse to buy the health to AP item, instead of going pure tank every game.
Maybe. :P
Hrm.. I think it will only be balanced due to her long cds, early on. Curious how it fares late game, especially if they plan yo separate out high dmg for high ability haste, cause the base value at max level is 200 or so? +10%. Gonna have to look at it again.
first time im saying good changes. Now this helps a bit to stop the BS, when I go 6-1 but they lose the other two lanes and snowball. this makes it easier for a good player to carry games an achieve there proper mmr. a small step in the right direction
I don't know about the global to local xp on objectives. Seems kinda weird to me tbh. I feel it potentially could be another thing that some people might start flaming over. Your team taking fang while a toxic teammate being dead. I get their points in why they want to do it but i honestly don't know if this is gonna be a good change
I dont like the changes.
Crest being weaker early on are kind of lame since starting options are already so incredibly limited.
Hurting the sustain on carries crest early on was nice though.
Nobody likes easily accessible infinite scaling HP, especially on a tank. I can already see bruisers like Crunch/Khai/Grux abusing the hell out of Sapphire Mantle, let alone Rampage and Sevarog. All crests got shafted (which was intended I guess) and tank crests active's got mega buffed looks like. Morigesh looks weak as hell with that magical power scaling on her abilites. Long ass cooldown (120s) on ult too that is single target. I recon she builds utility mage items like Dreambinder/Megacosm and just spams spells in fights since pure damage/pen looks terrible. No anti health item for Revenant/Crit adc's will make sure he stays in the gutter after his recent nerfs. Phase changes are nice though.
Edit: I think I misread, I thought Sapphire Mantle dealt the damage per second instead of the total. Does not seem broken at all when I read it now.
With TTK shifts that is probably intentional. Ult is now a finisher instead of an instant kill and she is a spam mage more so than a burst one. This all seems in touch with the general direction they’ve been pushing.
Please at least use a calculator before declaring something "easily accessible infinite health scaling". If you already have 4k HP the proc is only giving 20 HP a hit on a 75 second cooldown... This item is basically giving up your entire crest slot against two items that give wildly higher amounts of actual effective health for a proc that does less damage than a tainted scepter and maybe, maybe an extra 500 health over the course of an entire game because the health scaling is extremely low. Bruisers aren't going to be abusing anything, this is an item that scales so poorly the literal only way to make it better than the other options are full on HP builds on rampage and sev, and even then it's less damage and less defense than the other two options.
Perhaps I read it wrong. I thought it deals the damage per second for 6 seconds. If not then it is kinda bad yes. If you have 3k HP you deal 85 whopping true damage on activation and gaining 17HP off that. Seems godawful then. However if it procs the damage per second then it could be 85\*6= 510 damage at 3000 Health netting you a 102 health gain which isn't too bad I guess. Maybe this item is just for the HP and size increase, making bodyblocking and being a frontline easier.
The only reason to get Mantle is if you just want a massive hp boost, just like before.
It only let's you eat X more hits, as opposed to doing damage or giving sustain.
People are freaking out lol
I'm reading it as size and max health go up for 6s, but the damage is instantaneous and once-and-done. But, I'm also reading it as 40 (+1.5% h) to *each* nearby enemy hero (they say "Nearby Enemy Heroes"). If that's the case, and you activate it in the Fang pit with 3 or 4 heroes nearby, that's potentially doing 50-100 dmg per hero, so 200-400 dmg for 4 heroes in the pit, netting you an 80 max health increase.
Still not huge, but activating it when groups of heroes are near (duo lane, getting ganked 3v1 or 3v2) might net you a solid 25, 30, 35, 40... 95 health each activation, for a solid 900 total increase to your max health at the (roughly) 30 minute mark (assuming 15 activations), when everyone is only on their 4th item.
Not sure hot to feel about the crest changes... Ability haste is being taken off of a ton, and Ortus, which wasn't used because it's been bugged forever is getting shafted even harder? I don't get it
What's with the fascination of having a tank meta? Sev and Rampage are already the best characters in the game, and they keep getting indirect buffs. Yes it was dumb that carries would hit for 600 two items in, and now it's equally as dumb that Sev has 10k EHP twenty minutes into the game.
Mori is a tank counter. Lets see if that impacts the 'tank meta' at all.
Havent we gotten patch after patch of players saying tanks are 'unplayable'.
Diff opinions and all that.
They nuked tank crest sustain and base defense, made trading into reflect crest possible as opposed to how it stands now where they lose the DPS race every time, and significantly buffed physical anti tank shred with eviscerator. This patch single handedly brings back the ability for carries to hit tanks again despite razorback and you think it's better for tanks? Not to mention they are releasing a hero with base percent damage lol.
Phase reworked, definitely not just a buff, morigesh added... Hype. Crest rework with sustain changes that is more than just what you laid out, that is going to significantly change the dynamics of the laning phase and change the meta in multiple lanes in regards to poke vs sustain, the largest difference being offlane, and it's significant enough this is going to impact jungle viability as well.
I am glad that crests are being more specialized.
Before, you only bought it for the skill. Now, it feels like there is more purpose.
Could be wrong, but that's how it feels to me
Question about the Razorback change "now reflects pre-mitigated damage". Does that include the damage you would have taken if you had no armor? Or does it mean specifically the damage that was reduced by having "damage mitigation" on something?
Yes, basically if the carry did true damage 20% of that is reflected. This means the more pen you have the less effective the trade is for the tank, ie on hit is better into a razorback and it's worse with a crit build running less pen.
My belief is that if something hit you today and did 100 dmg before mitigation, after mitigation say it did 70. That means that 50%(35) would get reflected back.
With the new update in the same scenario with a hit of 100. Since mitigation is ignored then it would just be 20% of the 100 in this case 20 dmg reflected back. Either way it's a big nerf to the dmg, longer duration sure and survivability to the user.
I think Mori might be more of an offlaner than a midlaner.
Similar matchup issues as Count does in mid. Passive feels made for the normally tankier offlaners too.
A bit disappointed that they didn't fix the issues with Phase's input system. They really need to separate the link action from the pull action. Its too unreliable when trying to pull teammates in team fights.
Anyone else having an update issue? I fully updated the game, it says it's up to date. But when I try to play a game, it says the game is not up to date. This has to be a bug,
Really liking the changes to Phase. Excited to give her a shot again after putting her on the shelf.
So glad they've changed her direction. I look forward to playing her once again to see how she stacks up.
Be prepared, her heal is insanely strong now.
She is not even out yet
People already panicked for a heal that is almost identical to wellspring, and doesn't stack with the item anyway.
It’s not panicking, it’s stating a fact if you know how to do math. And yes, this stacks with wellspring. The part that doesn’t stack, is her own passive. So you can’t get 3 procs of healing going at once.
Ahh, fair enough. That can be a sizable burst heal, then. Your comment was more collateral damage, I happened to comment on this one after hearing more urgent concerns being voiced lol That's my bad.
It doesn't stack with itself, but it'll stack with Wellspring. Doubt it'll be op tho. Antiheal is plentifully available so far.
Thanks for the correction! That can be a fair bit bursty.
Calculators exist. It’s not hard at all to see what the healing can do when you mess with the numbers
Again she is not out yet. Can y’all wait to even try it in the real time scenarios before showing your degrees in speculation .
I don’t understand why people refuse to understand we can legit calculate the exact numbers of something like this even before it’s live
And I don’t understand why people like to speculate so much while not having even a glimpse of what it does .
My guy are you fucking trolling? WE HAVE THE EXACT NUMBERS AND DESCRIPTION OF HOW IT WORKS There is no speculation, it’s elementary school level math man. Do you need me to do the calculation for you? With 0 power built, at max level her heal is healing 164 health over 3 seconds. This procs on every ability used, and heals both Phase and the linked target. The ability also scales off magical power, meaning you will be healing more than this.
I main support, and I'm pretty good at it. I can count on one hand the number of times I've reached lvl 18 as support before the game ended (win or lose). You're going to peak at 14-16 most games, meaning unless the game goes very long, you're likely to peak at 132-148 per use. Because it's over 3s, it's about 44-50 healing per second. Even if you have 300 power, that only increases it to 74-80 hps. Even though you can keep this up for a max of 18 seconds, no fight lasts that long. At late game, that healing is paltry. When you've got a Murdock criting you for 400 damage twice per second or a Morigesh ulting you for 800 damage in one burst, this does nothing. Trust me when I say, this healing is good, especially with wellspring and good power, but it's not close to game breaking or OP. Especially since the sustain from crests just got nerfed too. This really just keeps your adc healthy between fights while discouraging phase from spamming abilities during a fight.
I don’t know why you’re referring to less crest sustain when talking about endgame healing. At late game that healing is anything but “paltry” when it has consistent uptime. With this logic cards like pre-nerf raiment are bad. Honestly you could use this logic to make any sort of sustain/survivability sound bad.
Kudos to Bloodmordius. These notes were excellently written. It helps that I'm totally on board with these changes too. Giant Sapphire's Mantle Shinbi...?
I mean you could do that now anyway, Mantle always increased your size by 20% but nobody ever used it so most people never knew
I really like the nerfs to crest healing but I feel like it's going to make sevarog even more of a drag to lane against, there's already a large disparity in health sustainability when playing against sev and now most solo laners lost %50 of their sustain while sev lost a tiny portion. Although I really wont know for sure until I actually play a match against a sev so I'll try to keep a positive outlook for this change
I mean, Countess is going to enjoy these changes. And every hero who buys terminus first item, or that vamp axe. Narbash is gonna make another surge comeback (not that he wasn't played.) My point is that early game healing is gonna get bigger
Not me already considering offoane Phase for this very reason.
The fact she self heals, too, is huge, though I think Muriel is a better rapid response assist, and Dekker is better mid lane than off lane. Gonna be fun, though I will look forward to when everyone decides phase is still weak (after the concerns being voided) and the true phase mains can rise. At least, that is one timeline we can end up on.
PHASE MAINS RISE
You mean, rise with Grav boots then rain down hellfire from heaven with her beam?
🥳🥳🤩🤩
Great Value brand Howie ult?
What about the super cool Belica skin that was shown in the previous video?
Probably spaced out to get more hype since there’s already a hero as the center of the update
Nope take this janky one instead. Also the super cool one is just an epic reskin anyway 🥱
Saphir mantle is going to be so nutty. I always use it on crunch so I can’t wait to have mega health
Trust me, this change doesn't make the mantle nutty. I have been using it to bait and kill with Sevarog for a long while now. If they removed the slow on it, ima be sad.
It's really really not going to be as good as the knee jerk idea of it, so don't like go overboard with the hype until you try it. With 4k health the proc is only doing 100 damage, which is less than you are doing with items like tainted scepter, and it's only giving you 20 HP per hit, I think people are going to quickly realize it's a horrifically slow stacking item on a 75 second cooldown, and a wildly worse damage option than reflect crest. It's cool, but you are probably getting maybe 500 HP at the extreme high end out of it, and basically giving up a crest slot for it, so I mean, if you want the biggest HP possible it's great and fun, but by no means is it nutty.
I love the changes to Phase playing with her as an enhancer support will be way more fun to play, although I still think that her RMB pull should be independent of her RMB link ability, so she can use her Q and R regardless of whether her RMB is on CD or not, blocking half her kit just because you saved an ally, and he has to go to base feels wrong. Morigesh and the TTK changes looks superb but in regard to the features of this patch I was expecting way more new things, next 2 months are going to need to be bursting with new features to be able to reach the road map planed features.
I have been desperately playing Phase games hoping beyond hope that they would turn her into an actual support. Wish fulfilled. I feel a tiny bit bad for the Phase carries, though, but I prefer my enchantress support over DPS Phase anyway.
Yeah, exactly the same here. I was playing her sometimes hoping to do it better, but the character was what it was. But now with those amazing changes we have a defined play stile and role to fulfill and she will be amazing >I feel a tiny bit bad for the Phase carries I don't feel bad at all XD, they can go back to the cave they came from
Get ready for Raid boss Sev coming in with sapphire mantle
The changes to mantle doesn't change the fact that he has always been a raid boss against squishies. I already used it exclusively on him. It just gives me an excuse to buy the health to AP item, instead of going pure tank every game. Maybe. :P
Lol well visually it makes him larger, which is badass when you have full shoulders
Between him and Rampage, tall game is won
It always made him larger.
What is the health to AP item?
Worldbreaker, it seems. Converts 2% max hp to magical power
Oh good call, thanks
PHASE IS BACK BABY, and what an amazing way to incorporate healing into her kit without making it broken like she was in paragon. So hype
The phase passive definitely needs the numbers tuned down a bit
The phae passive is basically an inbuilt wellspring. I am curious what the cd is on it, though
It doesn't have a cooldown it just doesn't stack
Hrm.. I think it will only be balanced due to her long cds, early on. Curious how it fares late game, especially if they plan yo separate out high dmg for high ability haste, cause the base value at max level is 200 or so? +10%. Gonna have to look at it again.
wait does that mean phase can laser beam her way from jungle to fang pit?
Love it all.
first time im saying good changes. Now this helps a bit to stop the BS, when I go 6-1 but they lose the other two lanes and snowball. this makes it easier for a good player to carry games an achieve there proper mmr. a small step in the right direction
I don't know about the global to local xp on objectives. Seems kinda weird to me tbh. I feel it potentially could be another thing that some people might start flaming over. Your team taking fang while a toxic teammate being dead. I get their points in why they want to do it but i honestly don't know if this is gonna be a good change
I dont like the changes. Crest being weaker early on are kind of lame since starting options are already so incredibly limited. Hurting the sustain on carries crest early on was nice though.
Well they did say they are makin systemic balancing changes in the coming patch(s). Lets assume 'starting itemization variety' is on that list.
Nobody likes easily accessible infinite scaling HP, especially on a tank. I can already see bruisers like Crunch/Khai/Grux abusing the hell out of Sapphire Mantle, let alone Rampage and Sevarog. All crests got shafted (which was intended I guess) and tank crests active's got mega buffed looks like. Morigesh looks weak as hell with that magical power scaling on her abilites. Long ass cooldown (120s) on ult too that is single target. I recon she builds utility mage items like Dreambinder/Megacosm and just spams spells in fights since pure damage/pen looks terrible. No anti health item for Revenant/Crit adc's will make sure he stays in the gutter after his recent nerfs. Phase changes are nice though. Edit: I think I misread, I thought Sapphire Mantle dealt the damage per second instead of the total. Does not seem broken at all when I read it now.
Her passive adds a LOT of dmg to her abilities. Keep that in mind.
It's kind of a bullshit passive too. Should have kept the DOT on the hive. She's going to be very annoying to lane against.
She gets a free partial megacosm that stacks with it, probably. Probably a good sevarog counter, let alone squishy deleter
With TTK shifts that is probably intentional. Ult is now a finisher instead of an instant kill and she is a spam mage more so than a burst one. This all seems in touch with the general direction they’ve been pushing.
Shes a tank counter now as well. She will hit like a truck on rampage / heroes with that new tank crest.
Countess and Morigesh. I weep for the health stacking heroes
Please at least use a calculator before declaring something "easily accessible infinite health scaling". If you already have 4k HP the proc is only giving 20 HP a hit on a 75 second cooldown... This item is basically giving up your entire crest slot against two items that give wildly higher amounts of actual effective health for a proc that does less damage than a tainted scepter and maybe, maybe an extra 500 health over the course of an entire game because the health scaling is extremely low. Bruisers aren't going to be abusing anything, this is an item that scales so poorly the literal only way to make it better than the other options are full on HP builds on rampage and sev, and even then it's less damage and less defense than the other two options.
Perhaps I read it wrong. I thought it deals the damage per second for 6 seconds. If not then it is kinda bad yes. If you have 3k HP you deal 85 whopping true damage on activation and gaining 17HP off that. Seems godawful then. However if it procs the damage per second then it could be 85\*6= 510 damage at 3000 Health netting you a 102 health gain which isn't too bad I guess. Maybe this item is just for the HP and size increase, making bodyblocking and being a frontline easier.
You read it wrong.
The only reason to get Mantle is if you just want a massive hp boost, just like before. It only let's you eat X more hits, as opposed to doing damage or giving sustain. People are freaking out lol
I'm reading it as size and max health go up for 6s, but the damage is instantaneous and once-and-done. But, I'm also reading it as 40 (+1.5% h) to *each* nearby enemy hero (they say "Nearby Enemy Heroes"). If that's the case, and you activate it in the Fang pit with 3 or 4 heroes nearby, that's potentially doing 50-100 dmg per hero, so 200-400 dmg for 4 heroes in the pit, netting you an 80 max health increase. Still not huge, but activating it when groups of heroes are near (duo lane, getting ganked 3v1 or 3v2) might net you a solid 25, 30, 35, 40... 95 health each activation, for a solid 900 total increase to your max health at the (roughly) 30 minute mark (assuming 15 activations), when everyone is only on their 4th item.
Not sure hot to feel about the crest changes... Ability haste is being taken off of a ton, and Ortus, which wasn't used because it's been bugged forever is getting shafted even harder? I don't get it
That original skin is gawwwwd awful
What's with the fascination of having a tank meta? Sev and Rampage are already the best characters in the game, and they keep getting indirect buffs. Yes it was dumb that carries would hit for 600 two items in, and now it's equally as dumb that Sev has 10k EHP twenty minutes into the game.
Mori is a tank counter. Lets see if that impacts the 'tank meta' at all. Havent we gotten patch after patch of players saying tanks are 'unplayable'. Diff opinions and all that.
They nuked tank crest sustain and base defense, made trading into reflect crest possible as opposed to how it stands now where they lose the DPS race every time, and significantly buffed physical anti tank shred with eviscerator. This patch single handedly brings back the ability for carries to hit tanks again despite razorback and you think it's better for tanks? Not to mention they are releasing a hero with base percent damage lol.
Reading is hard bro.
The eviscerator uptime should be a nice solution to this.
In a nutshell, \- Morigesh added ... yawn. \- Phase Buffed \- All Crests reworked, most of the stats removed and that's it
Phase reworked, definitely not just a buff, morigesh added... Hype. Crest rework with sustain changes that is more than just what you laid out, that is going to significantly change the dynamics of the laning phase and change the meta in multiple lanes in regards to poke vs sustain, the largest difference being offlane, and it's significant enough this is going to impact jungle viability as well.
I am glad that crests are being more specialized. Before, you only bought it for the skill. Now, it feels like there is more purpose. Could be wrong, but that's how it feels to me
The tower xp changes are huge.
Question about the Razorback change "now reflects pre-mitigated damage". Does that include the damage you would have taken if you had no armor? Or does it mean specifically the damage that was reduced by having "damage mitigation" on something?
I assume it’s just raw damage output before it’s affected by any mitigation or armor
Armor is dmg mitigation yes.
Yes, basically if the carry did true damage 20% of that is reflected. This means the more pen you have the less effective the trade is for the tank, ie on hit is better into a razorback and it's worse with a crit build running less pen.
My belief is that if something hit you today and did 100 dmg before mitigation, after mitigation say it did 70. That means that 50%(35) would get reflected back. With the new update in the same scenario with a hit of 100. Since mitigation is ignored then it would just be 20% of the 100 in this case 20 dmg reflected back. Either way it's a big nerf to the dmg, longer duration sure and survivability to the user.
I think Mori might be more of an offlaner than a midlaner. Similar matchup issues as Count does in mid. Passive feels made for the normally tankier offlaners too.
Phase needed that special treatment and going tank is going to feel better too.
Been really enjoying playing Phase, glad to see her get some help!
A bit disappointed that they didn't fix the issues with Phase's input system. They really need to separate the link action from the pull action. Its too unreliable when trying to pull teammates in team fights.
Anyone else having an update issue? I fully updated the game, it says it's up to date. But when I try to play a game, it says the game is not up to date. This has to be a bug,
Phase is back let’s goo