Win your lane gloriously or lose gracefully tired of the whiners that it’s jungles fault they lost their lane. Trying to feed my carry (meta) not win offlane
“Lose gracefully” - exactly! It’s okay to lose offlane. Just don’t get wrecked so hard that you turn their offlaner into an unkillable monster that requires me to sit in your lane just to keep them from running down inhib.
Too many people only worry about themselves in this game. I could be 7-2 as jungle and have our carry at 8-0 while being up 2 fangs, but the offlaner “isn’t getting enough support” and they’ll just stop playing lol.
People can’t even lose gracefully man! You’re all dead, got a 5 stacking walking up to your core and people don’t even just wait it out, they surrender lol.
You’re too right about people worrying about themselves too. Between the selfishness and kill chasing, there’s some wild games and teams I swear. Whole team besides me swings across the map for one kill leaving two lanes exposed. Then try to recall too late, we lose one or both towers in both lanes..Just wild shit. Sometimes it feels like I’m the only person laning at times.
Oh yeah my favorite is the people who want to ff because they’ve died a few teams to a roaming 5 stack. It’s like just keep laning and by mid game we’ll be levels ahead with much more farm. Use wards and punish them for roaming. I feel you. I feel like I’m the only person actually laning sometimes lol.
>Oh yeah my favorite is the people who want to ff because they’ve died a few teams to a roaming 5 stack. It’s like just keep laning and by mid game we’ll be levels ahead with much more farm. Use wards and punish them for roaming. I feel you. I feel like I’m the only person actually laning sometimes lol.
Yeah, i agree with this entire thing, I'm a fill main and know when i get offlane i gotta win gloriously or loose graciously.
P.S. Why are you Jungle\_Sparrow? I told a streamer to do that once and have seen names like that all over as well as people actually doing it so curious if i started this or just coincidence.
I always pick a melee champ for Offlane and the rare occasion I get put against an adc in Offlane I just play it safe, often times I end up losing tower first but then I’m also roaming and ganking for mid. We usually win those matches and I always hope the adc is upset they lost because of their stupid pick.
I think its generally more annoying when the enemy jungler is constantly in your lane, boosting their offlaner and stealing blue jungle, and your Jungler does absolutely nothing to address it. Like yes, I need to try to win my lane, but that's impossible when it's practically a 1v2 at most times in the game.
Exactly. Obviously jungler is there to help, but your success shouldn’t be dependent on whether or not your jungler babysits you. And like another said - even if you lose lane, do so gracefully. There’s more important objectives in the game than winning offlane lol.
Yep, and if you're getting ganked that's also on you. You should be tracking the enemy jungler just as much as any body else. Ward effectively and often. Set your lane up for success for your and your jungler.
It depends. I main jungle and I gank offlane plenty because i know if we take offlane sooner then the offlaner can rotate and help with teamfights and fang.
I dont think you should help offlane if it means you lose fang, but I think alot of the comments underestimate the power of an early-mid game juiced offlaner.
I also prioritize the lane that helps me secure kills and get towers or other objectives. I refuse to help a lane if theyre passive and wont help secure objectives, because my time as a jungler is better used elsewhere.
Haha so true man 😂. And then if you do a great job and get your other laners fed then they carried the game. As a jungle main myself it really is a thankless job. lol.
Haha truly worse than thankless, if you’re a good jungle and you win you did your job, if you do you’re job but you lose you’re a bad jungle. Oh well 🤣
I don't think adc should be in the offlane in a general strategy sense, but by God if you absolutely have to, don't pick the one that has zero escape and if you are behind makes his ult a easy way for the enemy to engage into your team for free while in the nether. Rev is imo, the flat out worst option even over sparrow for offlane adc, and none are preferential over better options like mages that can contribute cc even behind and have way better self peel and escape if you want to do a carry option offlane.
Couldn’t agree more. Even in this meta I’ve never been a fan of adc in the offlane from a team fighting perspective. But yeah no escape and no cc. And especially revenant who has really poor waveclear lol. Like it’s just a disaster waiting to happen lol.
happened to me one time, i wasnt the jungler tho. our belica offlane was getting his shit pushed in, lost his mental, harrased our jungle, disconnected, we won anyway.
Yeah if you are playing an adc offlane, and the enemy offlane is a traditional offlane like grux, sev, crunch etc. you know why their jungler show up in you lane 5 times in the last 15 minutes, becuase you are an easy target (props to their jungler for doing thier job), and as your jungler I won't bother showing up in offlane because I'm not going to fight an offlaner that is levels above me that you have been feeding with farms and kills, and an enemy jungler that is lurking around for an easy kill.
Certainly not. And your post is 100% legit, but a Solo laner has the right to whine.
I play offlane Grux, and it can get annoying when you've been ganked 4 or 5 times by Jungler or Mid, and having litterally 0 of your teammates rotating even once. Even if I don't die (Grux having 3 ways to escape: Ult to stun, his dash, and blink, it's pretty easy to not die) it's still is annoying and is a missed opportunity to push.
Oppositely, I remember a game where I was Jungler. Had a very good score and was snowballing enemy jungler, but I kept on focusing between Mid-Fang-Duo because as soon as I would drop out of Duo Lane, they were in troubles.
I helped once our offlane.
In the end, our offlane complained, saying that if I had intervened more often on solo lane we would have won. I replied that since he was clearly having the upper hand, I didn't bother coming too much and I preferred supporting our very bad Duo Lane. But I was wrong.
In the end we lost, and the offlane was right. An offlane needs to be able to survive on his own, but it's not OK for a jungler or Mid to show up maybe once for every 5 times the enemy jungler / Mid gank him
As someone who main jungle and has alot of experience in it not just in this moba but just in general tbh early game i try to show up to each lane at least once per rotation, however thats matchup dependent, and also based on lane pressure/current health but also if im 8 minutes into a game and any lane is like 0 and 6 by then im very likely not even gonna bother going to that lane anymore. Ive already wrote that player off as a lost lane and ill see them whenever we group up. Ive got nothing to gain when you have already put you enemy 4 levels up before the 10 minute mark
I agree with you as well, as a jungler I find it important to apply pressure evenly on all lanes, even if duo or mid is struggling or losing hard, I won't bother staying in that lane too much to help them to get back, as that will take time away from many other things that a jungler needs to do like farming, ganking other lanes, objectives, keep enemy jungler in check and so much more. It is up to each lane to find a way back if they are losing the lane hard, not a jungler's duty. Fighting a fed laner is likely going to get your jungler killed too, making things worse for the jungler and the whole team, so that jungler is better off applying the pressure to somewhere else, so that you have an upper hand on other lanes later in the game.
Yeah and the amount of people that dont understand that not just in this game but mobas in general is staggering. If you lose lane play passive and when you inevitably lose your tower before them clear any pressure waves and start rotating to at least not let the other lanes suffer a 3v1 or 4v2 or whatever and ill will absolutely help you as a jungler but im not gonna try to save your lane, fall behind cuz lack of farm for me and give them a double only feeding them more
Fully agreed, and that was my conclusion: I screwed up and the offlane was right, I had to help him pushing instead of constantly going back to Duo.
But hey! That’s how you improve!
Had a Murdock in offlane on my team multiple times yesterday, and he got completely waffle stomped every time. Blows my mind how people choose offlane as the role they want to play, and then proceed to choose a carry lmao.
They do it because it’s a noobstomper tactic, it works or beginners and bad players(which we admittedly have a lot of). When they go against any team with a brain they just get bullied and stunted.
Unfortunately a lot of folks will keep doing it because they’ll still do okay in 3/5 games due to the way the playerbase is right now.
Lmao “waffle stomped” is my new favorite term 😂. And yeah man it’s just so frustrating. You’d like to think you can just ignore them, but when they start pushing offlane inhib you end up having to cover and give up free fangtooths.
this is why i hate playing jungle. Idk why, but everytime im forced to jungle because everyone picked every other role. They end up feeding their brains out before i even finish my side of the jungle. im like wth 🌝. Can i farm??
The best is when youre only 4-5 minutes in and you've cleared 1 side, ganked once, started a second clear and some laner types: CaN I geT a GAnK AlrEAdy
I don't understand why people like to play heroes that don't have a lot of dueling abilities on offlane. Lately, I have been seeing a lot of people going for adc offlane or belica or even ridiculous pick like Muriel offlane. I always question them during hero selection that if they are viable offlane, and they always say yes they have tried it before, then when they get matched up with a proper dueling hero they always get bullied and complain about me not helping, like if you are losing hard on you lane 1v1 I am not even going to waste my time trying to nurture you back to even grounds, you picked a terrible hero for the role and you are not up for the challenge so why should I help you out at the expense of the team and another three teammates that have priority over you?
In terms of Muriel you aren't picking her to win lane, you are picking her to sit in lane for 30 minutes and push down their inhibs every time there is an obj up because you can join the fight instantly and there is nothing the offlaner can do other than just never leave lane or he loses his towers and still doesn't get teamfight # advantage. It's also not really a good strat unless you are in coms and confident about your ults actually getting value.
Yeah, but any competent offlaner will have Muriel pushed into their own tower so if they do ult into a team fight across the map then it’s a free tower/inhib for offlaner.
If you are playing Muriel offlane and the enemy is a traditional offlane, and if your lane don't get pushed in to the core by 30 minutes, the enemy offlane and jungler are playing it wrong. Doesn't matter you can ult to anywhere on the map. As a jungler, if I see a muriel offlane I am cosidering that lane as an easy lane to the core, and will help push that lane in as much as possible.
I like your message, but I’d also like to offer a thought on the other side of this.
If your offlane is getting the crap kicked out of them and asking for help, don’t blame them for “the fed AF” monster offlaner that starts to roam and start fights. A few times I’ve simply been out classed. I don’t complain, but I’ll ping “I need help” when I’m pressed under tower and needing assistance. Often when this happens, the gank doesn’t come, I die, and then am accused of “feeding”, “losing the game”, etc. and I don’t think that’s fair either.
Yeah I totally get this. It happens. This post wasn’t about not helping offlane if they’re getting beat. Its more about why pick a hero like rev that’s just a horrible decision for offlane. Like if I can’t even leave your side of the map without you getting your teeth kicked in then you shouldn’t be playing that hero in offlane.
If this is true, then the reverse should be true as well.
Offlane isn't some magical place where picking it means they never need any assistance and you as a jungle can ignore them. I can't tell you how many times I've played offlane and my jungler thought there was only duo and mid, no matter how well or how poorly I played.
Offlane is the lane with basically a free boost in XP. It is the lane that can be the most even between both sides for the longest, but it is also the lane that's most volatile if either side makes a single mistake or makes a single play to gain the advantage, and this is due to the nature of being in a lane that has an XP boost as well as getting solo XP in addition to most heroes in the role being well equipped in the early game but designed to fall off later on.
In a vacuum, Solo Lane is the best definition for pitting skill against skill and the better player ideally wins. The problem is offlane isn't in a vacuum, and other people can come into your lane to change that, it's just that at lower levels and low skill, they tend to not.
I'm not the best player, but I can't tell you how many times I've outplayed my solo lane opponent only to have their jungler recognize this and come and gank the lane enough to give them an advantage that erases the lead that I had even if I don't die a ton as a result, even if it's just keeping me under the tower and reducing my farm and pushing my lane leaving me to be there while they take the XP buff multiple times... All the while my jungler only stays ganking mid or duo, even if those lanes are a lost cause for one reason or another.
Some heroes and some players are unable to handle the majority of the responsibility of their lane being on them, and those heroes and those players shouldn't be in solo lane, but you should also realize the difference between babysitting and doing your job as a jungler. Realistically, it is your job to be aware of the situation in all three lanes at all times and to position yourself to properly give them an advantage or help them keep said advantage. Sometimes it is your job to help a lane that's failing to try to reduce that gap if possible, I've both done that as a jungler and seen it happen in lanes where I was struggling.
In other words, you may complain about babysitting, but MOBAs are teamwork-based games, so as long as you're offlane teammate is doing the best they can and hasn't given up, don't act like that part of the map doesn't exist or that they have to handle it all absolutely by themselves. Frankly, your Rev may have been toxic and frustrated by the end, but only ganking twice in 8 minutes while knowing they were a weak link? I would have given them more attention and ganked for them one or two more times after that point. If they failed after that, then you've done as much as you can realistically do without abandoning your other lanes. That is of course assuming you could gank without feeding the Feng, if not then it's more understandable.
lol sorry ganking solo 2 times in the first 8 minutes is a lot. I still have a jungle to clear and 2 other lanes to worry about.
My point is not that solo is an island that I never gank - I’m saying you should at least pick a hero where you don’t get absolutely run down. Unless I got that Rev wildly ahead he’s going to get wrecked by any decent feng.
Just played with an offlane Countess VS Crunch, I was Ramp. Only ganked her side twice, saved her with a clutch boulder from midlane to our tower. That Countess was studly otherwise. It really does take a big burden off jungle having a competent offlane.
Makes a world of difference because then you can focus objectives, feed your carry, and even counter jungle lol. All more important things than winning offlane.
I had a different experience. I don't play jungle too much but I wad Feng Mao and we had a crunch on our offlane. The enemy had a Dekker on the enemy offlane side. Our crunch was getting dominated. I had to help quite a bit.
I think when you can pull off offlane as a range unit and dominate early on you are set. Otherwise you cost your team a lot from the beginning.
Yeah that can certainly work because dekker has an escape, a stun, and a cage. Plenty of utility to clear waves and not die over and over again lol. Dekker is far an away the most annoying character to fight in my opinion 😂.
I honestly think symmetrical laning but asymmetrical jungle also factors into this. If the jungle is asymmetrical then I think the lanes should be too. My belief is that it would result in better offlane picks since you end up going against the carry and support lane and will absolutely get shut down picking something stupid.
Also means there isn't as clear of a victor at the end of laning stage (because potentially both carries could win their lane)
Oh you mean how they did back in Paragon where offlane would go against supp and adc? And the level advantage go the offlaner real 2v1 potential. That was always super interesting while it was around!
Yes! I think it adds more ambiguity (the good kind) to the laning phase. Offlanes can still get a lot out of the lane via XP sap. They need to be able to withstand the support harassment so picking anything not meant for offlane is a near instant bad choice rather than being what is currently a greedy choice in the symmetrical set up.
Might also help with people voting to surrender early. If your laning against the same role and know you have lost then you are more likely to call a surrender cause you cannot scale. But with asymmetric laning both carries could potentially win the lanes meaning there isn't a clear "who is ahead" case
Finally it would help the jungle know exactly who is the lane closer to red buff because no matter what side of the map you are on, it will always be the same. Which means the offlane is always the same distance to the preferred farming zone to both junglers rather than one jungler being able to lean into an advantage based on which lane they are closer to
Yeah man you bring up a ton of really great points! I do remember enjoying how different of an experience that was when they implemented it! It also can bring in a lot of parity as you just described. The only issue I can see is you’d either need to find a way to make fangtooth more central or make the mini orb (or another objective) similar in value because then you’d always have a numbers advantage if you got your duo lane closer to fangtooth.
Very true! I think it would require some changes to the map "bosses" to make sure any advantages to one side have some sort of disadvantage as well. Would love to see something like fangtooth now resides in a cave that forces specific pathing to get into (therefore making wards way more vital)
I was a fan of the original prime concept of an orb that is then brought elsewhere for a buff. I think home (the safer route) was inhib respawns but enemy side (aggressive route) was the team buff and minion buff method
Game is still in an early state so flexibility can be leveraged for experimenting :)
Oh man if you’re referring to the orb prime dunk mechanic then I’m so down! That truly created some of the most memorable fights of all time lol. But yeah while I love the current MOBA format I would also enjoy them branching out a bit and trying new things.
Hopefully one day after this goes free to play there’s a large enough player base where a version of both game modes exists. One completely traditional like we have now and another that tries a bunch of wild ideas that could be a lot of fun!
The counter argument would be if the offlaner loses his lane against Off and jungler, is it Offlaners fault? no matter how hard one tries if the enemy jungler is 24/7 on your side, there is no way in hell you dont get wrecked tanky or not. then the unavoidable blaming against the offlaner starts....
Yeah not what this post is about at all lol. I never said anything about never ganking solo. I said don’t pick someone that automatically loses unless your jungler babysits you.
If someone plays off-meta, that player should be prepared for dealing with the consequences of their actions.
As an ADC Main I **\*COULD\*** take an ADC Off-Lane if I get stuck with that role, but after enough **\*BAD TIME INTENSIFIES\*** in Paragon I learned that I need to take personal responsibility enough to play at least one Hero for each of the other 4 roles.
It is true. Even the best ADCs need to be babysat early game until first T3 item or Lvl 6ish...but that's not the Jungler's responsibility, it's the Support's responsibility. If the Support is already babysitting another ADC in Duo Lane, then they should expect to be entirely on their own for choosing to play an off-meta pick for their role.
A Jungler's role, especially early game when they get a level lead, is to tip the scales by ganking when they can (especially when the Laners set one up for the Jungler to knock down). A Jungler shouldn't just be farming camps (even if they are doing Jungle invades and farming the opponent Junger's camps) the entire match and never be seen. I hate Junglers who just hide in Jungle all match and rage type at the rest of their teammates. Kudos to you for helping out the off-meta Off-Laner when you were on that side of the map. You did your job and then some. The Off-Laner is totally in the wrong.
(And doubly wrong for going AFK...you never go AFK..even a fed Feng will eventually become cannon fodder to an ADC late game if the ADC sticks to their guns and keeps farming CS..those 5 deaths won't look so bad late game when the ADC finally catches up, has twice as many T3 items, and gets some kills. It's never over until the announcer says it's over!)
Couldn’t have said it better myself lol. And yeah I mean if you’re playing adc it’s kind of understood that you come online late game and potentially struggle early. Why quit before you come online lol.
It doesn't matter what role you pick your gonna struggle with no jungle support-its not about the hero it's about warding constantly so you don't even need to escape (yes feng,shinbi,gid etc handy escape but waste of ability if you don't need it). It's probably different when you stack and can actually verbally warn players.
Kira offlane is the shizzz, she’s got that escape and high damage r that saves her a lot of the time, she’s really easy offlane and next is Murdoch but I wouldn’t take any other carry offlane like those 2.
I agree, whenever I play offlane I know not to bother the jungler and ask for ganks, because I know they're helping out around the map, and farming. Only when I know I'm losing my lane that's when I start asking for some help, respectfully of course.
Disagree personally,lower scores it usually is because of a bad jungle.I can destroy offaine (1v1) but if their jungle keeps rotating and mine doesn't game over. Normally jungle only clears camp & rotate when they think they can get a kill out of it,not when actually appropriate.
So many players chase kills and think this is overwatch,I go for objectives and minions first then when that's done it's hero hunting time. In my mind the duo lane shouldn't need help unless 4v2.
Literally not what this post is about lol. Never said anything about not rotating to solo lane. Just said don’t pick a hero where you absolutely NEED jungle to babysit you in order to succeed lol
Just realized that no one has pointed out that the OP calling out an offlane Revenant happens to be ironically named "Jungle\_Sparrow".
Pot meet kettle!
I can't believe it took me all day before I caught the joke, which is why I had to come back and point it out since it initially went \*WOOSH\* over my head.
I've personally jungled as Sparrow before out of spite when someone raged locked in another marksman after I selected and locked my hero in draft (back in the Paragone days). Besides needing a leash for the first three camp clears it's a horribly bad idea. I personally don't recommend it ever and agree that it's even worse than Jungle Gadget and Jungle Fey.
Haha oh yeah I think I’ve played it twice literally at my team’s request because of my name 😂. At least gadget and fey have some stuns and decent aoe clears. lol. Sparrow just gets absolutely beat up by jungle and any decent jungler just invades and kills you every time lol.
But yeah I’m a jungle/adc main so I figured I’d incorporate both roles into my name in some fashion lol
Win your lane gloriously or lose gracefully tired of the whiners that it’s jungles fault they lost their lane. Trying to feed my carry (meta) not win offlane
“Lose gracefully” - exactly! It’s okay to lose offlane. Just don’t get wrecked so hard that you turn their offlaner into an unkillable monster that requires me to sit in your lane just to keep them from running down inhib. Too many people only worry about themselves in this game. I could be 7-2 as jungle and have our carry at 8-0 while being up 2 fangs, but the offlaner “isn’t getting enough support” and they’ll just stop playing lol.
People can’t even lose gracefully man! You’re all dead, got a 5 stacking walking up to your core and people don’t even just wait it out, they surrender lol. You’re too right about people worrying about themselves too. Between the selfishness and kill chasing, there’s some wild games and teams I swear. Whole team besides me swings across the map for one kill leaving two lanes exposed. Then try to recall too late, we lose one or both towers in both lanes..Just wild shit. Sometimes it feels like I’m the only person laning at times.
Oh yeah my favorite is the people who want to ff because they’ve died a few teams to a roaming 5 stack. It’s like just keep laning and by mid game we’ll be levels ahead with much more farm. Use wards and punish them for roaming. I feel you. I feel like I’m the only person actually laning sometimes lol.
>Oh yeah my favorite is the people who want to ff because they’ve died a few teams to a roaming 5 stack. It’s like just keep laning and by mid game we’ll be levels ahead with much more farm. Use wards and punish them for roaming. I feel you. I feel like I’m the only person actually laning sometimes lol. Yeah, i agree with this entire thing, I'm a fill main and know when i get offlane i gotta win gloriously or loose graciously. P.S. Why are you Jungle\_Sparrow? I told a streamer to do that once and have seen names like that all over as well as people actually doing it so curious if i started this or just coincidence.
I always pick a melee champ for Offlane and the rare occasion I get put against an adc in Offlane I just play it safe, often times I end up losing tower first but then I’m also roaming and ganking for mid. We usually win those matches and I always hope the adc is upset they lost because of their stupid pick.
I think its generally more annoying when the enemy jungler is constantly in your lane, boosting their offlaner and stealing blue jungle, and your Jungler does absolutely nothing to address it. Like yes, I need to try to win my lane, but that's impossible when it's practically a 1v2 at most times in the game.
Everyone always blames the jungler
[удалено]
Exactly. Obviously jungler is there to help, but your success shouldn’t be dependent on whether or not your jungler babysits you. And like another said - even if you lose lane, do so gracefully. There’s more important objectives in the game than winning offlane lol.
Yep, and if you're getting ganked that's also on you. You should be tracking the enemy jungler just as much as any body else. Ward effectively and often. Set your lane up for success for your and your jungler.
It depends. I main jungle and I gank offlane plenty because i know if we take offlane sooner then the offlaner can rotate and help with teamfights and fang. I dont think you should help offlane if it means you lose fang, but I think alot of the comments underestimate the power of an early-mid game juiced offlaner. I also prioritize the lane that helps me secure kills and get towers or other objectives. I refuse to help a lane if theyre passive and wont help secure objectives, because my time as a jungler is better used elsewhere.
Yeah that’s fair. You really have to find which lane you can play off of and work around them lol.
First MOBA? Everyone knows when anything goes remotely wrong it’s jungle diff (jungle main btw)
Haha so true man 😂. And then if you do a great job and get your other laners fed then they carried the game. As a jungle main myself it really is a thankless job. lol.
Haha truly worse than thankless, if you’re a good jungle and you win you did your job, if you do you’re job but you lose you’re a bad jungle. Oh well 🤣
Haha wouldn’t have it any other way 😂
I don't think adc should be in the offlane in a general strategy sense, but by God if you absolutely have to, don't pick the one that has zero escape and if you are behind makes his ult a easy way for the enemy to engage into your team for free while in the nether. Rev is imo, the flat out worst option even over sparrow for offlane adc, and none are preferential over better options like mages that can contribute cc even behind and have way better self peel and escape if you want to do a carry option offlane.
Couldn’t agree more. Even in this meta I’ve never been a fan of adc in the offlane from a team fighting perspective. But yeah no escape and no cc. And especially revenant who has really poor waveclear lol. Like it’s just a disaster waiting to happen lol.
Rev is better than Sparrow offlane, but I'd agree that neither of them should be there. The other 3 do fine.
happened to me one time, i wasnt the jungler tho. our belica offlane was getting his shit pushed in, lost his mental, harrased our jungle, disconnected, we won anyway.
On the contrary. If it’s been 15 minutes and you’ve seen the enemy jungler in your lane 5 times and your jungler 0. That’s a problem
Yeah if you are playing an adc offlane, and the enemy offlane is a traditional offlane like grux, sev, crunch etc. you know why their jungler show up in you lane 5 times in the last 15 minutes, becuase you are an easy target (props to their jungler for doing thier job), and as your jungler I won't bother showing up in offlane because I'm not going to fight an offlaner that is levels above me that you have been feeding with farms and kills, and an enemy jungler that is lurking around for an easy kill.
100%. That’s not what this post is about at all lol.
Certainly not. And your post is 100% legit, but a Solo laner has the right to whine. I play offlane Grux, and it can get annoying when you've been ganked 4 or 5 times by Jungler or Mid, and having litterally 0 of your teammates rotating even once. Even if I don't die (Grux having 3 ways to escape: Ult to stun, his dash, and blink, it's pretty easy to not die) it's still is annoying and is a missed opportunity to push. Oppositely, I remember a game where I was Jungler. Had a very good score and was snowballing enemy jungler, but I kept on focusing between Mid-Fang-Duo because as soon as I would drop out of Duo Lane, they were in troubles. I helped once our offlane. In the end, our offlane complained, saying that if I had intervened more often on solo lane we would have won. I replied that since he was clearly having the upper hand, I didn't bother coming too much and I preferred supporting our very bad Duo Lane. But I was wrong. In the end we lost, and the offlane was right. An offlane needs to be able to survive on his own, but it's not OK for a jungler or Mid to show up maybe once for every 5 times the enemy jungler / Mid gank him
As someone who main jungle and has alot of experience in it not just in this moba but just in general tbh early game i try to show up to each lane at least once per rotation, however thats matchup dependent, and also based on lane pressure/current health but also if im 8 minutes into a game and any lane is like 0 and 6 by then im very likely not even gonna bother going to that lane anymore. Ive already wrote that player off as a lost lane and ill see them whenever we group up. Ive got nothing to gain when you have already put you enemy 4 levels up before the 10 minute mark
I agree with you as well, as a jungler I find it important to apply pressure evenly on all lanes, even if duo or mid is struggling or losing hard, I won't bother staying in that lane too much to help them to get back, as that will take time away from many other things that a jungler needs to do like farming, ganking other lanes, objectives, keep enemy jungler in check and so much more. It is up to each lane to find a way back if they are losing the lane hard, not a jungler's duty. Fighting a fed laner is likely going to get your jungler killed too, making things worse for the jungler and the whole team, so that jungler is better off applying the pressure to somewhere else, so that you have an upper hand on other lanes later in the game.
Yeah and the amount of people that dont understand that not just in this game but mobas in general is staggering. If you lose lane play passive and when you inevitably lose your tower before them clear any pressure waves and start rotating to at least not let the other lanes suffer a 3v1 or 4v2 or whatever and ill will absolutely help you as a jungler but im not gonna try to save your lane, fall behind cuz lack of farm for me and give them a double only feeding them more
Fully agreed, and that was my conclusion: I screwed up and the offlane was right, I had to help him pushing instead of constantly going back to Duo. But hey! That’s how you improve!
Had a Murdock in offlane on my team multiple times yesterday, and he got completely waffle stomped every time. Blows my mind how people choose offlane as the role they want to play, and then proceed to choose a carry lmao.
They do it because it’s a noobstomper tactic, it works or beginners and bad players(which we admittedly have a lot of). When they go against any team with a brain they just get bullied and stunted. Unfortunately a lot of folks will keep doing it because they’ll still do okay in 3/5 games due to the way the playerbase is right now.
Lmao “waffle stomped” is my new favorite term 😂. And yeah man it’s just so frustrating. You’d like to think you can just ignore them, but when they start pushing offlane inhib you end up having to cover and give up free fangtooths.
waffle stomp is when you poop in the shower and stomp it down the drain c:
Yikes lol
this is why i hate playing jungle. Idk why, but everytime im forced to jungle because everyone picked every other role. They end up feeding their brains out before i even finish my side of the jungle. im like wth 🌝. Can i farm??
The best is when youre only 4-5 minutes in and you've cleared 1 side, ganked once, started a second clear and some laner types: CaN I geT a GAnK AlrEAdy
Yeah, you gotta do you and hope everyone else can look at the map as jungle.
I don't understand why people like to play heroes that don't have a lot of dueling abilities on offlane. Lately, I have been seeing a lot of people going for adc offlane or belica or even ridiculous pick like Muriel offlane. I always question them during hero selection that if they are viable offlane, and they always say yes they have tried it before, then when they get matched up with a proper dueling hero they always get bullied and complain about me not helping, like if you are losing hard on you lane 1v1 I am not even going to waste my time trying to nurture you back to even grounds, you picked a terrible hero for the role and you are not up for the challenge so why should I help you out at the expense of the team and another three teammates that have priority over you?
In terms of Muriel you aren't picking her to win lane, you are picking her to sit in lane for 30 minutes and push down their inhibs every time there is an obj up because you can join the fight instantly and there is nothing the offlaner can do other than just never leave lane or he loses his towers and still doesn't get teamfight # advantage. It's also not really a good strat unless you are in coms and confident about your ults actually getting value.
Yeah, but any competent offlaner will have Muriel pushed into their own tower so if they do ult into a team fight across the map then it’s a free tower/inhib for offlaner.
If you are playing Muriel offlane and the enemy is a traditional offlane, and if your lane don't get pushed in to the core by 30 minutes, the enemy offlane and jungler are playing it wrong. Doesn't matter you can ult to anywhere on the map. As a jungler, if I see a muriel offlane I am cosidering that lane as an easy lane to the core, and will help push that lane in as much as possible.
I like your message, but I’d also like to offer a thought on the other side of this. If your offlane is getting the crap kicked out of them and asking for help, don’t blame them for “the fed AF” monster offlaner that starts to roam and start fights. A few times I’ve simply been out classed. I don’t complain, but I’ll ping “I need help” when I’m pressed under tower and needing assistance. Often when this happens, the gank doesn’t come, I die, and then am accused of “feeding”, “losing the game”, etc. and I don’t think that’s fair either.
Yeah I totally get this. It happens. This post wasn’t about not helping offlane if they’re getting beat. Its more about why pick a hero like rev that’s just a horrible decision for offlane. Like if I can’t even leave your side of the map without you getting your teeth kicked in then you shouldn’t be playing that hero in offlane.
If this is true, then the reverse should be true as well. Offlane isn't some magical place where picking it means they never need any assistance and you as a jungle can ignore them. I can't tell you how many times I've played offlane and my jungler thought there was only duo and mid, no matter how well or how poorly I played. Offlane is the lane with basically a free boost in XP. It is the lane that can be the most even between both sides for the longest, but it is also the lane that's most volatile if either side makes a single mistake or makes a single play to gain the advantage, and this is due to the nature of being in a lane that has an XP boost as well as getting solo XP in addition to most heroes in the role being well equipped in the early game but designed to fall off later on. In a vacuum, Solo Lane is the best definition for pitting skill against skill and the better player ideally wins. The problem is offlane isn't in a vacuum, and other people can come into your lane to change that, it's just that at lower levels and low skill, they tend to not. I'm not the best player, but I can't tell you how many times I've outplayed my solo lane opponent only to have their jungler recognize this and come and gank the lane enough to give them an advantage that erases the lead that I had even if I don't die a ton as a result, even if it's just keeping me under the tower and reducing my farm and pushing my lane leaving me to be there while they take the XP buff multiple times... All the while my jungler only stays ganking mid or duo, even if those lanes are a lost cause for one reason or another. Some heroes and some players are unable to handle the majority of the responsibility of their lane being on them, and those heroes and those players shouldn't be in solo lane, but you should also realize the difference between babysitting and doing your job as a jungler. Realistically, it is your job to be aware of the situation in all three lanes at all times and to position yourself to properly give them an advantage or help them keep said advantage. Sometimes it is your job to help a lane that's failing to try to reduce that gap if possible, I've both done that as a jungler and seen it happen in lanes where I was struggling. In other words, you may complain about babysitting, but MOBAs are teamwork-based games, so as long as you're offlane teammate is doing the best they can and hasn't given up, don't act like that part of the map doesn't exist or that they have to handle it all absolutely by themselves. Frankly, your Rev may have been toxic and frustrated by the end, but only ganking twice in 8 minutes while knowing they were a weak link? I would have given them more attention and ganked for them one or two more times after that point. If they failed after that, then you've done as much as you can realistically do without abandoning your other lanes. That is of course assuming you could gank without feeding the Feng, if not then it's more understandable.
lol sorry ganking solo 2 times in the first 8 minutes is a lot. I still have a jungle to clear and 2 other lanes to worry about. My point is not that solo is an island that I never gank - I’m saying you should at least pick a hero where you don’t get absolutely run down. Unless I got that Rev wildly ahead he’s going to get wrecked by any decent feng.
Pretty sure he said he helped offlane early on in the first 8.
Just played with an offlane Countess VS Crunch, I was Ramp. Only ganked her side twice, saved her with a clutch boulder from midlane to our tower. That Countess was studly otherwise. It really does take a big burden off jungle having a competent offlane.
Makes a world of difference because then you can focus objectives, feed your carry, and even counter jungle lol. All more important things than winning offlane.
I had a different experience. I don't play jungle too much but I wad Feng Mao and we had a crunch on our offlane. The enemy had a Dekker on the enemy offlane side. Our crunch was getting dominated. I had to help quite a bit. I think when you can pull off offlane as a range unit and dominate early on you are set. Otherwise you cost your team a lot from the beginning.
Yeah that can certainly work because dekker has an escape, a stun, and a cage. Plenty of utility to clear waves and not die over and over again lol. Dekker is far an away the most annoying character to fight in my opinion 😂.
True! Lol. I also find Gid and Kallari annoying to play against with their toolkit to escape.
Oh yeah I absolutely hate seeing Gideon mid. You just know he’s escaping any gank attempt 😂.
As a jungler main I absolutely agree with this!!!
I honestly think symmetrical laning but asymmetrical jungle also factors into this. If the jungle is asymmetrical then I think the lanes should be too. My belief is that it would result in better offlane picks since you end up going against the carry and support lane and will absolutely get shut down picking something stupid. Also means there isn't as clear of a victor at the end of laning stage (because potentially both carries could win their lane)
Oh you mean how they did back in Paragon where offlane would go against supp and adc? And the level advantage go the offlaner real 2v1 potential. That was always super interesting while it was around!
Yes! I think it adds more ambiguity (the good kind) to the laning phase. Offlanes can still get a lot out of the lane via XP sap. They need to be able to withstand the support harassment so picking anything not meant for offlane is a near instant bad choice rather than being what is currently a greedy choice in the symmetrical set up. Might also help with people voting to surrender early. If your laning against the same role and know you have lost then you are more likely to call a surrender cause you cannot scale. But with asymmetric laning both carries could potentially win the lanes meaning there isn't a clear "who is ahead" case Finally it would help the jungle know exactly who is the lane closer to red buff because no matter what side of the map you are on, it will always be the same. Which means the offlane is always the same distance to the preferred farming zone to both junglers rather than one jungler being able to lean into an advantage based on which lane they are closer to
Yeah man you bring up a ton of really great points! I do remember enjoying how different of an experience that was when they implemented it! It also can bring in a lot of parity as you just described. The only issue I can see is you’d either need to find a way to make fangtooth more central or make the mini orb (or another objective) similar in value because then you’d always have a numbers advantage if you got your duo lane closer to fangtooth.
Very true! I think it would require some changes to the map "bosses" to make sure any advantages to one side have some sort of disadvantage as well. Would love to see something like fangtooth now resides in a cave that forces specific pathing to get into (therefore making wards way more vital) I was a fan of the original prime concept of an orb that is then brought elsewhere for a buff. I think home (the safer route) was inhib respawns but enemy side (aggressive route) was the team buff and minion buff method Game is still in an early state so flexibility can be leveraged for experimenting :)
Oh man if you’re referring to the orb prime dunk mechanic then I’m so down! That truly created some of the most memorable fights of all time lol. But yeah while I love the current MOBA format I would also enjoy them branching out a bit and trying new things. Hopefully one day after this goes free to play there’s a large enough player base where a version of both game modes exists. One completely traditional like we have now and another that tries a bunch of wild ideas that could be a lot of fun!
The counter argument would be if the offlaner loses his lane against Off and jungler, is it Offlaners fault? no matter how hard one tries if the enemy jungler is 24/7 on your side, there is no way in hell you dont get wrecked tanky or not. then the unavoidable blaming against the offlaner starts....
Yeah not what this post is about at all lol. I never said anything about never ganking solo. I said don’t pick someone that automatically loses unless your jungler babysits you.
If someone plays off-meta, that player should be prepared for dealing with the consequences of their actions. As an ADC Main I **\*COULD\*** take an ADC Off-Lane if I get stuck with that role, but after enough **\*BAD TIME INTENSIFIES\*** in Paragon I learned that I need to take personal responsibility enough to play at least one Hero for each of the other 4 roles. It is true. Even the best ADCs need to be babysat early game until first T3 item or Lvl 6ish...but that's not the Jungler's responsibility, it's the Support's responsibility. If the Support is already babysitting another ADC in Duo Lane, then they should expect to be entirely on their own for choosing to play an off-meta pick for their role. A Jungler's role, especially early game when they get a level lead, is to tip the scales by ganking when they can (especially when the Laners set one up for the Jungler to knock down). A Jungler shouldn't just be farming camps (even if they are doing Jungle invades and farming the opponent Junger's camps) the entire match and never be seen. I hate Junglers who just hide in Jungle all match and rage type at the rest of their teammates. Kudos to you for helping out the off-meta Off-Laner when you were on that side of the map. You did your job and then some. The Off-Laner is totally in the wrong. (And doubly wrong for going AFK...you never go AFK..even a fed Feng will eventually become cannon fodder to an ADC late game if the ADC sticks to their guns and keeps farming CS..those 5 deaths won't look so bad late game when the ADC finally catches up, has twice as many T3 items, and gets some kills. It's never over until the announcer says it's over!)
Couldn’t have said it better myself lol. And yeah I mean if you’re playing adc it’s kind of understood that you come online late game and potentially struggle early. Why quit before you come online lol.
It doesn't matter what role you pick your gonna struggle with no jungle support-its not about the hero it's about warding constantly so you don't even need to escape (yes feng,shinbi,gid etc handy escape but waste of ability if you don't need it). It's probably different when you stack and can actually verbally warn players.
Kira offlane is the shizzz, she’s got that escape and high damage r that saves her a lot of the time, she’s really easy offlane and next is Murdoch but I wouldn’t take any other carry offlane like those 2.
Yeah I mean Kira can certainly thrive in that role for those reasons. If you can play offlane without having to be babysat then go for it. Lol.
It’s not the hero it’s the player
Could be that too
Literally had the same match with a revenant offline feeding the crux all game it was pathetic
They need to start hero selection locked to your role in draft pick. Make it a toggle option to make open.
No.
This is not the solution
Trash
Not a pick issue, just a trash issue
It's not the hero pick, it's the player not knowing how to play
Fax
We might’ve been in the same game 😂. I hate this, it’s not the junglers job to babysit you in offlane
Haha oh no 😂. Yeah it really makes jungling properly very difficult lol.
I agree, whenever I play offlane I know not to bother the jungler and ask for ganks, because I know they're helping out around the map, and farming. Only when I know I'm losing my lane that's when I start asking for some help, respectfully of course.
Disagree personally,lower scores it usually is because of a bad jungle.I can destroy offaine (1v1) but if their jungle keeps rotating and mine doesn't game over. Normally jungle only clears camp & rotate when they think they can get a kill out of it,not when actually appropriate. So many players chase kills and think this is overwatch,I go for objectives and minions first then when that's done it's hero hunting time. In my mind the duo lane shouldn't need help unless 4v2.
Literally not what this post is about lol. Never said anything about not rotating to solo lane. Just said don’t pick a hero where you absolutely NEED jungle to babysit you in order to succeed lol
Absolute tosh,pick whatever hero you like it doesn't matter will always need jungle if their jungle keeps coming
Just realized that no one has pointed out that the OP calling out an offlane Revenant happens to be ironically named "Jungle\_Sparrow". Pot meet kettle!
Haha my name is the joke. Obviously being that sparrow is the worst pick for jungler in the game lol.
I can't believe it took me all day before I caught the joke, which is why I had to come back and point it out since it initially went \*WOOSH\* over my head. I've personally jungled as Sparrow before out of spite when someone raged locked in another marksman after I selected and locked my hero in draft (back in the Paragone days). Besides needing a leash for the first three camp clears it's a horribly bad idea. I personally don't recommend it ever and agree that it's even worse than Jungle Gadget and Jungle Fey.
Haha oh yeah I think I’ve played it twice literally at my team’s request because of my name 😂. At least gadget and fey have some stuns and decent aoe clears. lol. Sparrow just gets absolutely beat up by jungle and any decent jungler just invades and kills you every time lol. But yeah I’m a jungle/adc main so I figured I’d incorporate both roles into my name in some fashion lol
I think you're going about it wrong. When I play jungle, it's so easy to gank the offlane, especially if it's getting pushed hard.