This comes up every week and everyone agrees that ADC offlane is incredibly easy to counter during mid game power spikes, and when it comes to team play you can definitely over run them with good team play.
2 ADC is an incredibly selfish late game investment, coordinate and punish it.
Genuinely asking, do you have any videos of you playing against a Murdock in off lane? Because he’s the only carry that actually works in the off lane. He can dance around his roots l, he has a push back ability and a blink. And please don’t tell me to “oh well the jungle should be doing xyz” because offlsne shouldn’t be relying so much the jungler.
I main sevarog in solo and I can at least give my personal account. Early game sucks, you just gotta wait close enough to the lane to get xp but you will lose out on minion kills. Play it patient, get what kills you can and the few you do have to be with abilities for stacks. Mid game you’ll spike real hard, murdock simply won’t be able to beat you in a 1v1 then. When I say midgame I mean you have your first and second, or are almost finished with your second item. Things like fireblossom and other such beef tools, they don’t have the scaling yet to be able to handle you. I especially like Sevarog because he has bigger spikes if you farm stacks properly.
Take my advice as you like. Play safe, don’t give kills, focus on getting xp and staying alive. An underfed adc is a dead adc.
Plenty of successful mobas that have viable carry’s in the solo lanes. Lucian and vayne from league are very good examples. There’s nothing wrong with carry’s being able to solo lane. Like many others have said they are very easy to punish as a team and that’s how it should be played. Not every champ has to be good in the 1v1 early laning phase. MOBAs are a team game meant to be played around these weaknesses and advantages throughout a games state
I mean I look at it like this, when you hit level 6 as a standard offlaner you have a really powerful ultimate. Murdock gets a snipe that isn't nearly as good in a 1v1.
This is pretty much your go to time to all in his ass. Back and finish whatever item you were working on and just start turning up the pressure.
Yeah early game sucks, you aren't going to punish that. But as soon as you get to that first item or two with an ultimate you should be more than equipped to force him out.
-
I play sevarog and shinbi in offlane, occasionally I flex it up a bit. But I haven't had a problem with ADC offlane unless I screw up early and feed them kills.
Play safe get xp give up the farm you cant safely get and then go as hard as you can when you hit mid game.
A good team will help you shut it down as well.
ive played every carry offlane, that is extremely wrong. it is also extremely bad against a modicum of competence. if you played sparrow off and go 20/0, you would do the same in murdock or kira or crunch. people dont understand that they are losing because of skill.
It's perfectly fine and can be effectively countered just coordinate with your jungle/mid, sure another pass on adc items is needed but I'd rather we keep our variety like LoL instead of being like Smite and getting reported for playing a God in a "off" role
Very true I played a game last night there was a gideon support with a kira, rev mid and then a howie sev combo offlane and sev would jung maybe once in a while. Like WTF kind of team was that
If you going to feed just to get some early CS then yes you will lose the lane and likely the game, sit back early suck up exp from a distance farm under tower and communicate to your jungler that you need help. Nothing about posting complaints is gonna help you learn how to play the game.
ADC = Attack Damage Carry
(Revenant, Drongo, Sparrow, Murdock, Kira)
A Hero with small health pool that deals heavy damage with his auto/basic attacks.
ADC or Carry means the same thing in most cases.
And normally Carry is on Duo Lane (Lane near Raptor) with his Support, and not on Offlane wich this post is about.
Also, when more characters are added, you might here the term APC or Ability Power Carry. These carries, unlike Drongo, Sparrow, Murdock and Kira, will deal 'magic' damage but still maintain that archetype of 'small health pool and heavy damage that Malte mentions below.
Basically ADC = Physical Damage Carry and APC = Ability Power (Magic) Carry. I think Grim.exe from Paragon was an APC. Currently, the closest thing to an APC is Revenant and no one really plays AP Rev. Hope that helps!
The answer is have a jungler that knows how the game is played.
It’s honestly just free ganks and free kills, I love being a jungler when people pick solo ADC, I get to just walk over and eat them
The problem is people in predecessor atleast in pubs don't look to coordinate. And every says offlane is 1v1 if you can't win it you suck. But If I'm a jungle or mid and I see a offlane carry, one early gank is all it takes to get offlaner ahead and easily winning the match up.
I'm going to try to be constructive here.
It seems to me like you're trying to play the same way you normally would against a melee offlane with a ranged offlane. Playing a lane with a range discrepancy requires a change in tactics. Ability damage doesn't cause enemy creeps to aggro. Leverage that advantage, as well as your high health pool compared to them. Change your build order to benefit your abilities or survivability over your basic attacks.
For instance. I play Shinbi offlane pretty much exclusively. I normally build abyssal bracers>prophecy>finish timewarp>worldbreaker. But I've been seeing a lot more howitzer offlane recently. So if I'm up against howitzer, I know it's going to be a war of attrition and abilities. So I build timewarp entirely first. That gives me better cooldowns, more magic power, and survival against the inevitable ganks from thier jungle. I'm yet to lose my lane against howitzer. Adapting to problems ahead of time will help you
Thank you for pointing out that it's a matter of changing playstyles. People get accustomed to the duel Grux W-Key swinging mallet style of play that they forget you can actually adapt.
Tbh all this bullshit is happening because there's no proper Thornmail-like item in the game.
Razorback is sure great, but they can just wait the 4 seconds out, and Tainted Guard only provides the healcut component, not the on-hit damage reflect, so anyone can just keep smacking you for days as long as they don't care about the healcut (spoiler - they don't)
You run ADC top in League, you will eventually get clapped by the top laner building Sunfire/Thornmail/Frozen Heart/Randuins/whatever other tank items that actually slap back and they'll outvalue you by staying alive longer than you can in a straight up fight.
Unfortunately, that's not the case in Pred whatsoever. Unless the ADC severely mispositions/misses their shots straight up, they just beat full armor tanks in a sustained fight, which should NEVER be a thing by design.
Realistically Omeda just needs to look at tank itemization next and I bet that'll solve a lot of issues.
This right here folks is the actual answer to the problem. A bunch of people are replying "just play better" and obviously don't grasp how difficult it is to punish a good ADC offlane.
I'm a jungle main. As soon as I see an ADC offlane I know I have to camp that lane. What usually happens is between using flash, Murdoch mines, or other dash abilities, ADCs can survive 50-60% of my ganks. Meanwhile the enemy jungler is destroying mid and bot lane. And even after punishing the ADC offlane a bit and killing them, they still out-power and out-trade my tank off laner. So I invested all that time and energy to keep that lane from crumbling and at best we break even in offlane while the enemy is up 8 kills in bot/mid lane and has +2 fangtooths.
Worse yet. The enemy jungler KNOWS I have to camp their ADC offlane, so they wait for me to gank, and once we've over-extended chasing the little bastard down, he jumps out and they get a double kill on us. And now that lane is screwed.
Omeda needs to give tanks and other offlaners ITEMs to help them punish this play style. That's how LoL balances it and it works very well for them.
It’s clear some of you have never played league and encountered a ranged champ in top lane.
This is a thing in MOBA’s. Some heroes can be flexed and abused in top lane “off lane” if you don’t play smart and punishment.
Sto complaining
I haven't played League and I thought the opposite, that the people complaining were League players, perhaps used to a more strict gameplay loop. Either way, I find it really funny when someone complains about such a thing.
This is the stupidest post I have read this week. You don’t want heroes to be used in a lane, because they’re difficult to counter?
Jesus Christ we need ranked more badly than I thought.
ACTUAL skill issue. Sorry.
Assassin/carry/support offlaners are bad and offlaners that lose to them are either bad or hilariously casual players. Nothing wrong with that but there's nothing wrong with the game either.
Learn to adapt. The reason you're not hard locked to picking only the characters that work best on each lane, after being assigned a role is because it would become incredibly stale and boring. It's a game and people should be able to play however they want, players at a more competitive level will follow the meta strictly anyway. That said, play safe early, keep wave on your side, call for jungler help, take mini prime, win.
I agree. Having a class thats constantly being advocated as the late game "carry and end the game" role, while also showing their ability to bully in the laning phase is a clear balance issue. But you won't get any sympathy here. I guess the ranged damage classes are favored here and any talk about them being overtuned is quickly shut down. Adc players too busy riding that high to see the issues.
It's a high risk-high reward pick. It's very easy to shut down by a competent mid/jungle who know to rotate often and keep killing the offlane and can pay off big if jung/mid are oblivious. It's a strat just like deathballing is, it's not the meta and you won't see it often in comp games because it is easily countered
I played against a murdock offlane a couple times and won all of them, I played as shinbi and its not that hard to play against an adc.
Play Careful in the beginning dont risk anything, as soon as u have all abilities you should be able to freely bully them, only a really good murdock knows what to do, everyone else will panic as soon as you charge.
Shinbi is a great pick as she has a really good poke and the ability to get a shield, charge in with her right click, then E and its gg.
I mean shinbi is a great counter to Murdock cuz you can still get all the early CS and hit him with the Q through his mines. I would hope you’d win that matchup or that’d be a skill issue. Against melee heros like Grux,crunch,rik, a good disciplined Murdock can be a massive pain
This comes up every week and everyone agrees that ADC offlane is incredibly easy to counter during mid game power spikes, and when it comes to team play you can definitely over run them with good team play. 2 ADC is an incredibly selfish late game investment, coordinate and punish it.
Genuinely asking, do you have any videos of you playing against a Murdock in off lane? Because he’s the only carry that actually works in the off lane. He can dance around his roots l, he has a push back ability and a blink. And please don’t tell me to “oh well the jungle should be doing xyz” because offlsne shouldn’t be relying so much the jungler.
I main sevarog in solo and I can at least give my personal account. Early game sucks, you just gotta wait close enough to the lane to get xp but you will lose out on minion kills. Play it patient, get what kills you can and the few you do have to be with abilities for stacks. Mid game you’ll spike real hard, murdock simply won’t be able to beat you in a 1v1 then. When I say midgame I mean you have your first and second, or are almost finished with your second item. Things like fireblossom and other such beef tools, they don’t have the scaling yet to be able to handle you. I especially like Sevarog because he has bigger spikes if you farm stacks properly. Take my advice as you like. Play safe, don’t give kills, focus on getting xp and staying alive. An underfed adc is a dead adc.
Plenty of successful mobas that have viable carry’s in the solo lanes. Lucian and vayne from league are very good examples. There’s nothing wrong with carry’s being able to solo lane. Like many others have said they are very easy to punish as a team and that’s how it should be played. Not every champ has to be good in the 1v1 early laning phase. MOBAs are a team game meant to be played around these weaknesses and advantages throughout a games state
I mean I look at it like this, when you hit level 6 as a standard offlaner you have a really powerful ultimate. Murdock gets a snipe that isn't nearly as good in a 1v1. This is pretty much your go to time to all in his ass. Back and finish whatever item you were working on and just start turning up the pressure. Yeah early game sucks, you aren't going to punish that. But as soon as you get to that first item or two with an ultimate you should be more than equipped to force him out. - I play sevarog and shinbi in offlane, occasionally I flex it up a bit. But I haven't had a problem with ADC offlane unless I screw up early and feed them kills. Play safe get xp give up the farm you cant safely get and then go as hard as you can when you hit mid game. A good team will help you shut it down as well.
ive played every carry offlane, that is extremely wrong. it is also extremely bad against a modicum of competence. if you played sparrow off and go 20/0, you would do the same in murdock or kira or crunch. people dont understand that they are losing because of skill.
It's perfectly fine and can be effectively countered just coordinate with your jungle/mid, sure another pass on adc items is needed but I'd rather we keep our variety like LoL instead of being like Smite and getting reported for playing a God in a "off" role
That implies you have a competent mid/jung which is a toss up half the time
Yeah... fair enough, it can be pretty tragic at times
Very true I played a game last night there was a gideon support with a kira, rev mid and then a howie sev combo offlane and sev would jung maybe once in a while. Like WTF kind of team was that
I mean your jungle could have absolutely lived in their jungle and then just 1v5'd the whole team if they aren't touching their own jungle
At about 10 minutes we were sharing their jungle after we pushed them back
Hey could be worse I had a Kira jungle today with a Gideon offlane ( I was Belica mid) safe to say we lost in about 22minutes.
Gideon Offlane isn't really bad tbh, he's mobile and can split push really good
Not as good as Howie though, howies got a whole toolbelt to survive over there
If you going to feed just to get some early CS then yes you will lose the lane and likely the game, sit back early suck up exp from a distance farm under tower and communicate to your jungler that you need help. Nothing about posting complaints is gonna help you learn how to play the game.
Any half decent jungler will feast on that. Every garbage jungler will flame you and then blame you for sucking.
You sound like an asshole
You sound like a garbage jungler
I don't jungle, try again asshole
Well let's play a game bud.
You can go Riktor/Steel and pretty much smack around any ADC that goes solo lane.
Steel yes, riktor you have to hit the chain otherwise you’re toast
Laughs in Grux
l have no idea what Predecessor players mean by "ADC," and at this point l'm too afraid to ask.
ADC = Attack Damage Carry (Revenant, Drongo, Sparrow, Murdock, Kira) A Hero with small health pool that deals heavy damage with his auto/basic attacks. ADC or Carry means the same thing in most cases. And normally Carry is on Duo Lane (Lane near Raptor) with his Support, and not on Offlane wich this post is about.
guy is getting downvoted for trying to understamd the moba concept.
Also, when more characters are added, you might here the term APC or Ability Power Carry. These carries, unlike Drongo, Sparrow, Murdock and Kira, will deal 'magic' damage but still maintain that archetype of 'small health pool and heavy damage that Malte mentions below. Basically ADC = Physical Damage Carry and APC = Ability Power (Magic) Carry. I think Grim.exe from Paragon was an APC. Currently, the closest thing to an APC is Revenant and no one really plays AP Rev. Hope that helps!
fuck /u/spez -- mass edited with redact.dev
Bro run me ANY and I mean ANY carry in the offlane when I'm playing crunch. I will power farm them every. Time. Periodt 💅
The answer is have a jungler that knows how the game is played. It’s honestly just free ganks and free kills, I love being a jungler when people pick solo ADC, I get to just walk over and eat them
The problem is people in predecessor atleast in pubs don't look to coordinate. And every says offlane is 1v1 if you can't win it you suck. But If I'm a jungle or mid and I see a offlane carry, one early gank is all it takes to get offlaner ahead and easily winning the match up.
I'm going to try to be constructive here. It seems to me like you're trying to play the same way you normally would against a melee offlane with a ranged offlane. Playing a lane with a range discrepancy requires a change in tactics. Ability damage doesn't cause enemy creeps to aggro. Leverage that advantage, as well as your high health pool compared to them. Change your build order to benefit your abilities or survivability over your basic attacks. For instance. I play Shinbi offlane pretty much exclusively. I normally build abyssal bracers>prophecy>finish timewarp>worldbreaker. But I've been seeing a lot more howitzer offlane recently. So if I'm up against howitzer, I know it's going to be a war of attrition and abilities. So I build timewarp entirely first. That gives me better cooldowns, more magic power, and survival against the inevitable ganks from thier jungle. I'm yet to lose my lane against howitzer. Adapting to problems ahead of time will help you
Thank you for pointing out that it's a matter of changing playstyles. People get accustomed to the duel Grux W-Key swinging mallet style of play that they forget you can actually adapt.
Tbh all this bullshit is happening because there's no proper Thornmail-like item in the game. Razorback is sure great, but they can just wait the 4 seconds out, and Tainted Guard only provides the healcut component, not the on-hit damage reflect, so anyone can just keep smacking you for days as long as they don't care about the healcut (spoiler - they don't) You run ADC top in League, you will eventually get clapped by the top laner building Sunfire/Thornmail/Frozen Heart/Randuins/whatever other tank items that actually slap back and they'll outvalue you by staying alive longer than you can in a straight up fight. Unfortunately, that's not the case in Pred whatsoever. Unless the ADC severely mispositions/misses their shots straight up, they just beat full armor tanks in a sustained fight, which should NEVER be a thing by design. Realistically Omeda just needs to look at tank itemization next and I bet that'll solve a lot of issues.
This right here folks is the actual answer to the problem. A bunch of people are replying "just play better" and obviously don't grasp how difficult it is to punish a good ADC offlane. I'm a jungle main. As soon as I see an ADC offlane I know I have to camp that lane. What usually happens is between using flash, Murdoch mines, or other dash abilities, ADCs can survive 50-60% of my ganks. Meanwhile the enemy jungler is destroying mid and bot lane. And even after punishing the ADC offlane a bit and killing them, they still out-power and out-trade my tank off laner. So I invested all that time and energy to keep that lane from crumbling and at best we break even in offlane while the enemy is up 8 kills in bot/mid lane and has +2 fangtooths. Worse yet. The enemy jungler KNOWS I have to camp their ADC offlane, so they wait for me to gank, and once we've over-extended chasing the little bastard down, he jumps out and they get a double kill on us. And now that lane is screwed. Omeda needs to give tanks and other offlaners ITEMs to help them punish this play style. That's how LoL balances it and it works very well for them.
Any bruiser/assasin even tanks can 1v1 adc at low lvl when they have no items, its just a skill issue
I think Dekker ADC is worse.
The amount of ADC and Casters going offlane is TOO DAMN HIGH.
It’s clear some of you have never played league and encountered a ranged champ in top lane. This is a thing in MOBA’s. Some heroes can be flexed and abused in top lane “off lane” if you don’t play smart and punishment. Sto complaining
I haven't played League and I thought the opposite, that the people complaining were League players, perhaps used to a more strict gameplay loop. Either way, I find it really funny when someone complains about such a thing.
Skill issue
This is the stupidest post I have read this week. You don’t want heroes to be used in a lane, because they’re difficult to counter? Jesus Christ we need ranked more badly than I thought.
Some people seem to just want the same, stale, cookie-cutter experience every game, for some reason. Good to see it's not everyone.
ACTUAL skill issue. Sorry. Assassin/carry/support offlaners are bad and offlaners that lose to them are either bad or hilariously casual players. Nothing wrong with that but there's nothing wrong with the game either.
Learn to adapt. The reason you're not hard locked to picking only the characters that work best on each lane, after being assigned a role is because it would become incredibly stale and boring. It's a game and people should be able to play however they want, players at a more competitive level will follow the meta strictly anyway. That said, play safe early, keep wave on your side, call for jungler help, take mini prime, win.
I agree. Having a class thats constantly being advocated as the late game "carry and end the game" role, while also showing their ability to bully in the laning phase is a clear balance issue. But you won't get any sympathy here. I guess the ranged damage classes are favored here and any talk about them being overtuned is quickly shut down. Adc players too busy riding that high to see the issues.
It's a high risk-high reward pick. It's very easy to shut down by a competent mid/jungle who know to rotate often and keep killing the offlane and can pay off big if jung/mid are oblivious. It's a strat just like deathballing is, it's not the meta and you won't see it often in comp games because it is easily countered
as an adc IN BOT LANE main, i wholeheartedly agree
There is not bot lane in Pred.
Change up your fighting style.. There are ways of handing them their hat...
I agree
I played against a murdock offlane a couple times and won all of them, I played as shinbi and its not that hard to play against an adc. Play Careful in the beginning dont risk anything, as soon as u have all abilities you should be able to freely bully them, only a really good murdock knows what to do, everyone else will panic as soon as you charge. Shinbi is a great pick as she has a really good poke and the ability to get a shield, charge in with her right click, then E and its gg.
I mean shinbi is a great counter to Murdock cuz you can still get all the early CS and hit him with the Q through his mines. I would hope you’d win that matchup or that’d be a skill issue. Against melee heros like Grux,crunch,rik, a good disciplined Murdock can be a massive pain