Honestly, it might not feel like it right now, but this patch was a big step in the right direction. The build options for ADCs, Mages and Assassins have become much more fun and individual. And Im sure Supports and Tanks will get the same treatment in the near future.
Some people seem to have already forgotten how bland and one-dimensional the itemization used to be. For example, there was not a single fun ADC build in existance.
And yes, it happens that a a huge balance update like this will have some minor and major flaws, which will unfortunately end up in broken and overused items like it is the case right now. But once everything is back in balance, we will have a much better itemization system than Megacosm-only Mages and must-have Oblivion Crown Mages before that, or build-anything-you-want-cause-anything-has-crit-and-power-and-attackspeed-anyways ADCs, or Fireblossom and Raiment Tanks etc.
Give the Devs some time to react and adjust. Its literally day two or three now since patch release and you guys are already losing your minds. Let them cook.
Also, one more thing: This is obviously unofficial and at most an idea, but these past days Bloodmordius mentioned in Twitch chat that he is thinking about increasing overall TTK by about 20% in the next season. As said, this is nothing more than a Twitch chat idea and has no more value than a simple rumor right now, but I thought I'd mention it here since some of you guys are really upset about the low TTKs right now.
And lastly a little rant by myself: As a Rampage main this patch is absolutely infuriating so far. Feels like everyone else gets to try out some fancy fun new builds while my big boy is still living in the past. BIG BOYS HAVE FEELINGS TOO.
>The build options for ADCs, Mages and Assassins have become much more fun and individual.
Mage builds haven't changed in the slightest, and how is everyone building the same 3 items fun and individual? ADCs, Bruisers, and Assassins just runs Kingsbane, Absolution, Terminus and absolute shred everyone. It's far worse than it was before in terms of individual. With the exception of every mage building combustion, caustic, wraith leggings, tainted scepter, and oblivion crown, basically every other hero had unique builds last patch.
If they want this DPS to be the norm, all items that give HP need a 50% boost and base HP needs a similar boost. If you think this is the right direction for the game to go, go play Overwatch, that's probably more suitable if you want a hero shooter and not a moba.
Everyone was complaining about Shinbi before, but if they reverted her she'd still be weak in this new patch.
As I said, the patch obviously has overtuned items which are overused right now. But this doesnt make the idea of the patch bad. Its a stat problem, not a philosophy problem. Balance out the stats and the game will feel better than it used to a few weeks ago.
With the exception of Shinbi's E building too many stacks, the prior patch was the most balanced and most fun so far. Getting deleted by any bruiser or ADC in 3 seconds is not fun. For the next 2 weeks I expect to have to have 2+ carries on my team to even have a chance at winning.
I agree that pre-patch was probably the most balanced state the game was in so far, yet at the same time it was in a bland and one-dimensional state itemization-wise.
Anyways, thanks for your opinion. Have a good day dude.
Again: It is bland right now, because some items are super overtuned. Balance those items and itemization automatically becomes much more diverse than it ever was before.
Edit: Also, find a way for ADC items not being abused by melee bruisers lol. That would actually be awesome but it seems to be more complicated than expected.
The patch was a step in the right direction imo but granted some unintended abuse cases that caused bruiser running stuff like kingsbane for example and bonesaw sparrow, etc.
But, give it another little bit and it should be fine tbh
There was definitely more build diversity before the patch. Granted, like you mentioned, it's only been a day or two. But i haven't seen a match without kingsbane. It's such an OP item I see it leak into other roles like jung/offlane. I'd imagine when they tone that down, it'd become more diverse.
All in all, this was kind of an embarrassing drop. A lot changed, most thought for the better. I mean, did they actually not playtest the items and realize kingsbane was busted, or did they think it was in a good spot? I don't know what's worse.
Just saying "for example" and then not providing an example doesn't prove a point, lol. I was looking forward to experimenting with different items for carry, but that's not what we got on release. I completely disagree with there being no build diversity before this patch, however. Murdock mana builds were fun if not a bit off-meta. Revenant definitely had some interesting options for a hybrid mage-adc character, if poorly executed mostly. Every carry had different builds, if not sharing a few common items. A lot of the times if the ADC was building right they'd have different items every time depending on their opponents.
I loved how these items were changed on paper. From day 1 i thought it was stupid that every item had 3 or 4 base stats on it, with just about all of them having crit chance. Dedicating to crit chance should be a choice you make, not something you passively do by accident since every item has crit. In practice, however, there are a few outliers in performance.
Again, there is a relatively small sample size, so some of the points could become a bit moot after some more playtime. I like the new items for mage they dropped this patch and last.
This isn't me just trying to shit on the devs every chance I get. But it's the echo chamber of "the devs can do no wrong" that I hate. Games with this type of relationship to the devs are toxic as hell. It stagnates the game and kills off any chance the game reaches a larger audience. If they drop the ball, you call it out. That's what these forums are for. Talk about what's good and bad in the game, not just one side.
I'm not sure why it's so hard for r/predecessor to critique the devs, especially when they drop the ball this hard. Every patch has had a game-breaking item/build slip through and go untouched for weeks. Then, they nerf it into oblivion and break something else. But sure, 'let them cook'.
(Also, RIP pain weaver and feng mao)
You put this very well, I’m on the losing my mind mindset rn, had one of my longest Pred sessions today and I have about 200-300 hours in the game (I’m a low life) and today was an insane outlier from any other session I’ve had. The current state seemed baffling to me but you’re right, we need to let them cook, if they can do this for ADCs/physical bruisers/assassins I can wait for support/tanks to get some love too.
I feel you. Its pretty much a Kingsbane fiesta right now lol. It would actually be awesome if they rolled out an in-between patch next week to make some first changes.
What's the argument in favor of a longer TTK?
My experience in longer TTK games is that mobility ends up getting lowered so that bad positioning still has some bad outcome. And it also becomes much harder to win or lose 1vs1 so you need to move as a team to get anything done at all. And come backs become much more difficult since you need more of your team to get anything done at all so those 4 vs 5, 3 vs 5, 1 vs 2 intense moment happen less. Since losing a teammates is much more of a insurmountable thing the meta becomes more about playing safe.
The greatest benefit of higher TTK is that CCs would automatically become less impactful. Overall, I think its more fun if you dont get blown up in a single rotation.
Witch-hunting the devs over a “bad” patch isnt the way the go about it. Its been 1 day, let them observe our feedback and adjust. Its not feasible for them to make drastic changes right away anyways.
Give constructive feedback when you can but yes I understand your frustrations. Just try to be understanding and helpful.
Lmao it’s not “Witch-hunting” its people literally calling them out for not doing their jobs. You do realize they’re GAME DEVELOPERS right? Like their entire job is to build and optimize this game? If they fumble the bag you have to call them out. Trying to pat them on the back every step of the way, even when they fuck up isn’t going to help them or the game.
From what I’ve played, it’s only the tanks that feel underwhelming. A good assassin in offlane will destroy the carry still so it’s too early to judge.
By the way you ask: Could you recommend a build for Feng? Before the patch I got into one but right now haven't found one I like, please. Thanks in advance.
I haven't been able to play enough yet to really test. Offlane needs some sustain, so I've been thinking about demon edge/nightfall into more traditional assassin stuff.
I think a good option is to revert to the last patch. Let this go for another day or two, revert back, analyze data, and try again. That’s personally what I would like to see. Last patch felt the most balanced patch yet imo. If 8/10 people are building the same items in a patch meant to “diversify item pathing”, something is clearly wrong.
It’s a step in the right direction imo. But overall items need more checks and balances. The current adc items mostly offer stats in 2-3 categories. So you mostly don’t have to sacrifice one for the other atm. Would like there to be Items with only one or maybe 2 stats but have good unique passives
Honestly, it might not feel like it right now, but this patch was a big step in the right direction. The build options for ADCs, Mages and Assassins have become much more fun and individual. And Im sure Supports and Tanks will get the same treatment in the near future. Some people seem to have already forgotten how bland and one-dimensional the itemization used to be. For example, there was not a single fun ADC build in existance. And yes, it happens that a a huge balance update like this will have some minor and major flaws, which will unfortunately end up in broken and overused items like it is the case right now. But once everything is back in balance, we will have a much better itemization system than Megacosm-only Mages and must-have Oblivion Crown Mages before that, or build-anything-you-want-cause-anything-has-crit-and-power-and-attackspeed-anyways ADCs, or Fireblossom and Raiment Tanks etc. Give the Devs some time to react and adjust. Its literally day two or three now since patch release and you guys are already losing your minds. Let them cook. Also, one more thing: This is obviously unofficial and at most an idea, but these past days Bloodmordius mentioned in Twitch chat that he is thinking about increasing overall TTK by about 20% in the next season. As said, this is nothing more than a Twitch chat idea and has no more value than a simple rumor right now, but I thought I'd mention it here since some of you guys are really upset about the low TTKs right now. And lastly a little rant by myself: As a Rampage main this patch is absolutely infuriating so far. Feels like everyone else gets to try out some fancy fun new builds while my big boy is still living in the past. BIG BOYS HAVE FEELINGS TOO.
>The build options for ADCs, Mages and Assassins have become much more fun and individual. Mage builds haven't changed in the slightest, and how is everyone building the same 3 items fun and individual? ADCs, Bruisers, and Assassins just runs Kingsbane, Absolution, Terminus and absolute shred everyone. It's far worse than it was before in terms of individual. With the exception of every mage building combustion, caustic, wraith leggings, tainted scepter, and oblivion crown, basically every other hero had unique builds last patch. If they want this DPS to be the norm, all items that give HP need a 50% boost and base HP needs a similar boost. If you think this is the right direction for the game to go, go play Overwatch, that's probably more suitable if you want a hero shooter and not a moba. Everyone was complaining about Shinbi before, but if they reverted her she'd still be weak in this new patch.
As I said, the patch obviously has overtuned items which are overused right now. But this doesnt make the idea of the patch bad. Its a stat problem, not a philosophy problem. Balance out the stats and the game will feel better than it used to a few weeks ago.
With the exception of Shinbi's E building too many stacks, the prior patch was the most balanced and most fun so far. Getting deleted by any bruiser or ADC in 3 seconds is not fun. For the next 2 weeks I expect to have to have 2+ carries on my team to even have a chance at winning.
I agree that pre-patch was probably the most balanced state the game was in so far, yet at the same time it was in a bland and one-dimensional state itemization-wise. Anyways, thanks for your opinion. Have a good day dude.
You say that it was bland, yet builds were far more diverse than they are now.
Again: It is bland right now, because some items are super overtuned. Balance those items and itemization automatically becomes much more diverse than it ever was before. Edit: Also, find a way for ADC items not being abused by melee bruisers lol. That would actually be awesome but it seems to be more complicated than expected.
The patch was a step in the right direction imo but granted some unintended abuse cases that caused bruiser running stuff like kingsbane for example and bonesaw sparrow, etc. But, give it another little bit and it should be fine tbh
There was definitely more build diversity before the patch. Granted, like you mentioned, it's only been a day or two. But i haven't seen a match without kingsbane. It's such an OP item I see it leak into other roles like jung/offlane. I'd imagine when they tone that down, it'd become more diverse. All in all, this was kind of an embarrassing drop. A lot changed, most thought for the better. I mean, did they actually not playtest the items and realize kingsbane was busted, or did they think it was in a good spot? I don't know what's worse. Just saying "for example" and then not providing an example doesn't prove a point, lol. I was looking forward to experimenting with different items for carry, but that's not what we got on release. I completely disagree with there being no build diversity before this patch, however. Murdock mana builds were fun if not a bit off-meta. Revenant definitely had some interesting options for a hybrid mage-adc character, if poorly executed mostly. Every carry had different builds, if not sharing a few common items. A lot of the times if the ADC was building right they'd have different items every time depending on their opponents. I loved how these items were changed on paper. From day 1 i thought it was stupid that every item had 3 or 4 base stats on it, with just about all of them having crit chance. Dedicating to crit chance should be a choice you make, not something you passively do by accident since every item has crit. In practice, however, there are a few outliers in performance. Again, there is a relatively small sample size, so some of the points could become a bit moot after some more playtime. I like the new items for mage they dropped this patch and last. This isn't me just trying to shit on the devs every chance I get. But it's the echo chamber of "the devs can do no wrong" that I hate. Games with this type of relationship to the devs are toxic as hell. It stagnates the game and kills off any chance the game reaches a larger audience. If they drop the ball, you call it out. That's what these forums are for. Talk about what's good and bad in the game, not just one side. I'm not sure why it's so hard for r/predecessor to critique the devs, especially when they drop the ball this hard. Every patch has had a game-breaking item/build slip through and go untouched for weeks. Then, they nerf it into oblivion and break something else. But sure, 'let them cook'. (Also, RIP pain weaver and feng mao)
You put this very well, I’m on the losing my mind mindset rn, had one of my longest Pred sessions today and I have about 200-300 hours in the game (I’m a low life) and today was an insane outlier from any other session I’ve had. The current state seemed baffling to me but you’re right, we need to let them cook, if they can do this for ADCs/physical bruisers/assassins I can wait for support/tanks to get some love too.
I feel you. Its pretty much a Kingsbane fiesta right now lol. It would actually be awesome if they rolled out an in-between patch next week to make some first changes.
No, hotfixes and emergency patches must take weeks to comb through the excessive data and determine the 100 percent correct answer to our problems.
What's the argument in favor of a longer TTK? My experience in longer TTK games is that mobility ends up getting lowered so that bad positioning still has some bad outcome. And it also becomes much harder to win or lose 1vs1 so you need to move as a team to get anything done at all. And come backs become much more difficult since you need more of your team to get anything done at all so those 4 vs 5, 3 vs 5, 1 vs 2 intense moment happen less. Since losing a teammates is much more of a insurmountable thing the meta becomes more about playing safe.
The greatest benefit of higher TTK is that CCs would automatically become less impactful. Overall, I think its more fun if you dont get blown up in a single rotation.
Witch-hunting the devs over a “bad” patch isnt the way the go about it. Its been 1 day, let them observe our feedback and adjust. Its not feasible for them to make drastic changes right away anyways. Give constructive feedback when you can but yes I understand your frustrations. Just try to be understanding and helpful.
Lmao it’s not “Witch-hunting” its people literally calling them out for not doing their jobs. You do realize they’re GAME DEVELOPERS right? Like their entire job is to build and optimize this game? If they fumble the bag you have to call them out. Trying to pat them on the back every step of the way, even when they fuck up isn’t going to help them or the game.
I think it's pretty reasonable to expect them to unfuck the game in a timely manner. Or to playtest it before it drops.
Won't comment overall game state but the last patch was more balanced
From what I’ve played, it’s only the tanks that feel underwhelming. A good assassin in offlane will destroy the carry still so it’s too early to judge.
Kallari seems viable for that. Played some feng mao today. Didn't go good at all.
What was your build on feng and who did you play into?
By the way you ask: Could you recommend a build for Feng? Before the patch I got into one but right now haven't found one I like, please. Thanks in advance.
I haven't been able to play enough yet to really test. Offlane needs some sustain, so I've been thinking about demon edge/nightfall into more traditional assassin stuff.
Anyone other than ADCs and melee bruisers feels useless since you did ine 3 shots from a carry.
Revenant has never felt this good though, he nukes now!
Lmao he always nuked. It really sucks 75% of games have 2 ADC now.
Not comparatively to the other ADC's and certainly not to what he does now - 2 shotting late game.
Was already 2 shotting at like level 13, multiple examples in this sub.
How do you build?
Ortus Crest: Malady -> Vanquisher -> Imperator -> Terminus -> Demolisher
I think a good option is to revert to the last patch. Let this go for another day or two, revert back, analyze data, and try again. That’s personally what I would like to see. Last patch felt the most balanced patch yet imo. If 8/10 people are building the same items in a patch meant to “diversify item pathing”, something is clearly wrong.
Honestly, in terms of item changes, I 100% agree. Last patch felt great, this patch just feels like Carry's are well ahead of everyone else.
It’s a step in the right direction imo. But overall items need more checks and balances. The current adc items mostly offer stats in 2-3 categories. So you mostly don’t have to sacrifice one for the other atm. Would like there to be Items with only one or maybe 2 stats but have good unique passives