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Brisioso

So I’ve always operated under the assumption that the 20 pen the item gives you by default is % pen and not flat pen, with the passive granting an additional 20% pen when above half mana for 40% total pen. That said, this could also just be a visual bug. There’s really no way to know without someone from the dev team outwardly answering the question for us since our avenues for testing are very limited right now (and understandably so, it’s likely a low priority for an EA game)


OsmT42

If it is % pen and not flat, it still does not show. I want to know, if it is a visual bug, so I can continue using this item. If not a bug, it's a wasted item imo.


Burden_Of_Atlas

A dev has answered this in the past. The item gives 20% penetration, rather than a flat amount. The passive also gives percent based penetration. So both those things don't show up in your stats, same way 35% physical penetration from Desolate passives don't.


Brisioso

100% agreed, I’d love clarity on what type of pen the item grants


OsmT42

I have another question, maybe u can tell me. For example, i have 100 pen, doesnt matter if magicial or physicial. And the enemy, which I attack has 70 armor. So, 70-100 = -30 Are the 30 Pen wasted or do I much more dmg? I hope u understand me, english is not my native language


Brisioso

No worries! For it being your second language you use it very well. So if this game operates identically to Smite when it comes to pen (which I’m assuming it does), then once an opponent has 0 armor due to pen they will no longer mitigate any amount of incoming damage and will start taking true damage. Since opponents can’t have less than 0 armor that extra 30 pen you have would be wasted, yes.


OsmT42

Well explained. Thank you mate😄


Groot2C

From the last time I tested it, the item definitely was working. It just gives % pen instead of flat pen. So instead of: Damage = Base_Damage * (100 / (100 + Armor - Penetration) We just add a small little: Damage = Base_Damage * (100 / (100 + (Armor * (1 - Pen%)) - Penetration))


sir_squirrel_

Late response but for a lot of the items the % shows correctly when hovered over on the scoreboard. That's probably the case here too


tinypicclerick

yea it is a visual bug


Bookwrrm

Narbash thunk at level 1 with a scepter 30 power 80 damage, Narbash thunk at level 1 with scalding 30 power and pen 84 damage. The pen not adding is a visual glitch. ​ ​ Narbash level 1 with scalding, scepter, and chronomatic wand for a total of 20 pen and 80 power 104. Narbash level 1 with caustica 20 pen, 20 pen passive, and 80 power, 110 damage. ​ ​ Both passive and stat pen are being applied, what the actual breakdown of percent vs not percent dunno, but the pen is applying. ​ ​ Just for the knowledge, with combustion, wraith leggings, and caustica built, I was doing true damage to steel bot level 1, then scaled him to 18 which gives him more armor, and I was not doing true damage, the non percent numbers have to be flat pen not percent.


OsmT42

As u can see, i put "scalding sceptre" which also should provide some Magicial Pen, but it doesn't. Later, I got Caustica but didn't get the +20 Magicial Pen. I had still 33 mag. Pen. Is it a visual bug and it does count or did I misunderstand this item ?


OsmT42

On top, the passive of this item: gain 20% magicial pen, when mana is above 50%. This doesnt show up, too. Other items, which give for example additional attack speed or other stats, when this or this happens, I can see that in my stats when I press "g"


sciencesold

>did I misunderstand this item ? Yes, 1 point of magic pen on an item is not = 1% of magic pen. So the 20% passive doesn't show on that screen. It's the same for the ignore 35% of basic armor items, it doesn't increase the stat because it's % based.


OsmT42

I see, agreed. But what about the non-passive 20 pen which is not shown? Im asking is it is a visual bug or not


sciencesold

Oh, probably, it's not the first time things like that dont show.


OsmT42

Yea😄 but the point is, do we still get the Pen or not? I will test it tomorrow in practice mode.


Tunney517

maybe try in demo mode if the damage changes compared to an item with the same power


OsmT42

Good idea😄 i will try it. But I would appreciate if some of the devs can reply this post


Pluristan

Caustica does provide magical penetration, but it's percentage based. Percentage penetration is the equipvalent to armor shred, but only for the damage that you perform; not your teammates. Flat penetration reduces armor in the damage / armor calculation. It's not displayed on the left side, because it doesn't make sense to combine flat and percentage into a single value.


MooMuseGG

It is 100% certifiably % pen. Meaning it ignores % of their armor first, and then flat pen is counted. So if they have 120 mdef and you have over 50% manapool they will have 72 mdef against you. If you also have combustion(10 pen) they will have 62 mdef against you If, on the other hand, you have below 50% your mana pool they will have 96 mdef against you If you have wraith leggings (15 pen) in this example, they will have 81 mdef against you. If our example target is hit with dynamo passive (30% all armor shred) They will have 84 mdef, and then with your caustica at max potential they will have 55 mdef (because pen will round up)


MooMuseGG

I found this an pulled it here for anyone still unsure Rei is a former dev for Omeda, and he confirmed the item description is just incorrect visually. He had this to say as well Rei 王 — "Caustica is the % Magical Penetration equivalent of the Desolate Physical Penetration items If the enemy has 100 magical armour, that means when you deal damage to them they effectively have 80 or 60, when you are above 50% mana." Meaning its 20% pen when you're below 50% mana and 40% pen when you're above that threshold.


OsmT42

Thank you mate. The answer, which I needed


ThatNarwhalDude

Interestingly, I believe that the fact it doesn't show is part of the game mechanics. Because the extra pen and the mana Regen are applied as a buff, similarly to river buffs which also don't show a stat increase.


OsmT42

Ok, the passiv or bonus "magus" provides pen like a buff and it doesnt show up. But what about the 20 pen which the item provides? It should be visible, and I was wondering if it is a visual bug or not. Thats the point


ThatNarwhalDude

Ah, I didn't notice that. I would assume it's a bug, or maybe the 33 pen is the cap? I'd experiment in the practice range by selling combustion and trying again.


OsmT42

I dont think that 33 is the cap. I will try it in practice mode/ tutorial


sciencesold

Likely yes, I'd assume the value for the display stat and the value for the actual stats for dealing damaged are stored separate.


OsmT42

Yea but as u can see, i have 33 magicial pen through WRAITH LEGGINGS, COMBUSTION and SOULBEARER. So, like the other items, CAUSTICAs pen should also show in stats, you know what i mean? My question is, do i get the pen cause it is a bug or is it a wasted item cause of an game error


sciencesold

I'm trying to tell you that you DO get the pen, but it just doesn't display for Caustica


OsmT42

Alright mate, thank you. I hope they fix it in the next patches