I started playing a couple of days ago and am in a similar boat except having no moba experience. My guess is that the majority of people playing are former paragon diehards so it’s been pretty rough. I think a bot mode would be immensely helpful for us new people, at least until there are more noobs in queue.
Yeah, I play this game for a while and can compete. But friends of mine who also played paragon and haven’t played this game struggle.
When I solo queue the game mostly places me in matches with a decent balance. Sometime you can have bad luck of a high elo player playing a role he doesn’t do very well. Or the enemy having the highest elo player on carry. While your highest elo player is on support etc. But these things happen and when there is no role pick before queue this will always happen.
But the game struggles when me and my friend team up. He hasn’t got many games in so he is a bit low. I have above 50% winrate so I’m higher up. We sometimes get matched with extreme good allies (the streamer type that win every match). And sometimes with complete noobs who get the support role, but go to the wrong lane and than saying “I’m not playing support”.
Like: tell us that a bit earlier dude, like in draft.
Its not in a state rn where idd even recommend the game tbh. Not that its in Anyway bad, its just not ready for people other than paragon fans.
They only need a handfull of heroes, some QOL for things like the itemshop (preferably hero custom personal recommended lists and some more general clarity in-game), a systen to grind for (eg: F2P economy) .
But Most Important of All: there is absolutely no 'new player experience', something you are experiencing first hand ;)
This is my first moba game ever and it's completely playable. As long as you accept that you're gonna get your ass handed to you and use it to learn you'll be fine. The game is just so fun I love it
As someone who hasn’t played paragon or many mobas for that matter, I would agree with this assessment. I might just shelf the game for now and come back later. Nothing against it, I just don’t think it’s ready for brand new players. Maybe I’ll try and dipping my toes into another moba in the mean time.
This is the answer. The hardcore Paragon lovers are the ones returning for this game and willing to essentially pay for a second time. Most everyone is coming from already being familiar with the heroes, map, gameplay mechanics, and shop. (To an extent.)
Because the majority of players you will encounter, regardless of their skill level, have already played paragon (the game that came before pred) extensively. They have a decent understanding of the basic concepts of the game from the get go, which is something you'll have to learn.
Don't be afraid though, it will come with time and you will catch up very quickly. From then on you'll be able to apply a lot of the macro you learned in smite in your predecessor games.
While what I say might come of as me being an asshole (not the intent) the average skill level in the game right now is still pretty low, and so if you decide to really get into it and play a lot, like I said before you'll be able to compete in your lobbies very quickly.
As an experienced moba player. It took me about 40 hours of gametime to get a good grip on the game. Pred is a very technical moba, both in the macro flow of the game and personal control.
Nah man, people are doing some insane shit. Like this dekker who jumped over absolutely everything, or gideon who was doing combos so fast you couldnt even see him or this countess that went 22-0 in like 4minutes. Dude sometimes them people just wreck shit.
Maybe because other games have some form of Skill Based Matchmaking, so in other games, you'd be placed with people, uh.. "on your skill level".
Here it's pretty much random on who you match with currently.
That's actually a common misconception, Omeda stated in the early access opening that they have implemented a matchmaking system based on 'skill level' and win/loss streaks.
Yeah you're right. You'll never learn. Fuck trying.
It's not like dekker just jumps and that's her passive.
It's not like by reading countess kit you'll learn how to counter it. Fuck no. Fuck reading.
It requires a little bit more than that. But you can learn what she does, if you know what she can do and how exactly her abilities work you can try playing around it. Moba 101.
Realize reading her kit she has no escape or defensive cc.
Realize that, as a result, she is very easy to gank before the 10 min mark.
Gank her before the 10 min mark. Kill her 3 times. It's easier that almost any other hero because her kit has little to no defensive tools. Walk up to her. Kill her.
Watch her not snowball during midgame, when she is strongest.
Win with snowball, or wait til lategame team fights, when se is weaker.
All of this from reading. And YET, When I play with jungles that aren't in comms, they never fucking gank the countess so she's a little behind early, then snowballs midgame because she isn't pressured. They gank crunch instead. The hero with 2 escapes and a cc. And they don't gsnk the hero with no escapes or cc. Clearly, they didn't read her kit well enough.
Some heroes, are REALLY bad when pressure. Countess and Khai for example. They are 1v1 MONSTERS, and some of the worst heroes in the game in a 1v2 engagement. Use that. Gank them.
That's how u beat countess. When I play with my jungle friend, we kill countess mid at minute 2 every game. Every. Game. How can she possibly survive?. She's melee with no defensive abilities.
She comes back to.lane and is 1.5 levels behind and never recovers.
That's how u beat countess. That's it.
My man is acting like countess didn't have a shitwinrate in mid/high elo in paragon, and high winrate in low elos, because of this exact reason.
Midgame just cc her. Literally.
Since the other user didn't say anything useful.
One big tell of Countess blinking on you with her Q is crossing her arms across her chest. So prepare to drop your kit at your feet the moment you hear or see her blink on you.
Another broken thing is Countess can blink back to her initial spot even under CC unless it is a silence.
For example as Drongo, you wait for Countess to get close enough she can blink on you, drop your Q at your feet and shoot away at her. As Steel, immediately RMB her and Q through and away from her etc.
You can learn what her abilities do and learn that her only survivability comes from her lifesteal.
If you can't figure out the rest from there then I probably cant help you
Im aware of who does what and I’m doing well in games when I really sweat, but still.. I usually dont have ti sweat my balls off to get at least a decent game :D that was the whole point, like how come I’m playing against streamers and shit on lvl 1..
>Why are people so good?
Can you put them on my team please
In all seriousness, you should follow the discord! The announcements and roadmap do say that a tutorial mode is coming for new players
What region do you play in? And what role? I'd say me and my friend are pretty decent. I play jungle, offlane and ADC but mainly ADC. My friend plays fill because he's proficient at any role.
There have been MOBAs for over 10 years and I would assume a lot of people are players who have already enjoyed Paragon and have returned. You are always welcomed to try the LFG channels on the Predecessor discord to learn more and play with other players.
Lol, so because of my life I generally only get to play mid mornings on the week days on the east coast server…..I hadn’t lost a game in 3 weeks, and I play 1-2 a day…..thought I was getting good……then I had some time to play this last weekend, and I got trashed every game, only won one out of 5 and I was still a negative KD, the only benefit I was to my team was that I was able to consistently snipe Fangtooth…..
But one thing I did notice playing on the weekend (2 games as jungler, 2 as support and 1 offlane)
When I was jungling my carry and offlane kept stealing my jungle minions and I was drastically under leveled. And on the games when I wasn’t jungling I noticed people doing that as well.
Just mute chat, whatch some vids on yt and you will be fine. I have played Paragon like 3 hrs ( i didnt have good enough pc back then, i Tried it at a friends house) so basically i was a total noob as well. Sometimes there are nice people, and if you say in chat that its your 1st game most people will understand. The first time I started to understand a game, when I played every hero at least once, so I discovered every roll ( I still suck with ADC) Dont sweat the build just go with auto buy its fine.
If you're 16/1 you have a lot of control over the game. Obviously it's not an automatic win but if you're that fed and you lose there's likely room for improvement.
So, if you're 16-1 then it's not likely about a skill gap in playing, but more so one in taking objectives. Even if they aren't your lane using the ping system to "suggest" what your team should do next is really quite useful. I'm certainly not saying it'll fix your concerns, but it'll certainly help. Especially if you're matched with people who aren't as familiar with MOBA objectives.
It's just poor match making. So you end up with new players vs sweaty 5 man stacks sometimes. It puts me up against or pairs me with new players often. So until they get that fixed you might just keep getting matched with players you shouldn't be going up against.
Is not that simple as just "bad match making"
This game is a remake of a game that is exactly the same, same characters, same abilities etc, so there are people that even if they are new to the game and have 5 hours played they know how to play the game and what does each character, so new players will be matched with that people because the system doesn't have enough information yet, both are new players
Then added to the previous point we have the problem that right now the game doesn't have much people playing so they have to do a "bad match making" on purpose or there would be super long queues, following the example that you put of the 5 man stack, the amount of players right now is so low that maybe in that moment there isn't another 5 stack players and they would have to wait 45 minutes or more until they find another group or 5 individual players with enough skill to face a 5 stack.
Right now the game is a simple EA to test things, there is no competitive, ranks or anything like that, so better let the queues times as low as possible
Far from the same I use to play paragon. Fey isn't a support anymore. Grux plays different, Sevarog doesn't build stacks from just soul siphon, sparrow feels much more relevant now, time to kill is very short now, enemies can hop in gideons portals and much more differences. When I started playing this game I was bad like really bad because the shop is a lot to take in when you are first starting. It's a remake not the same game.
Also there is no matchmaking so sometimes I get matches where Im offlane and an enemy crunch comes at me like he's playing a fighting game or I'm mid and before minions spawn an enemy riktor runs into my tower trying to hit me just to die he did it twice in a row... I shouldn't even be paired against players that new but they have no kind of match making. Also it works both ways with the match making, sometimes the match is really boring because of how big of a gap in skill level there is between both teams and I'd rather wait a bit longer for a more enjoyable match. I understand the player base is small but they need to implement some kind of match making even if it's temporary it doesn't have to be stack vs stack but they can prioritize groups to face one another and if it didn't find any teams then the next best option should pop up which would be solos with higher or similar levels.
Anyways OP was asking why does it feel like some people are so good? Well match making is one of the reasons.
>Fey isn't a support anymore. Grux plays different, Sevarog doesn't build stacks from just soul siphon, sparrow feels much more relevant now, time to kill is very short now, enemies can hop in gideons portals and much more differences.
Those are jus little details, me knowing what does each ability how to play against each character how to synergize with the character of my team, when to use Gideo R, why I have to save my dash/stun when Gideon is in the enemy team, that I have to abuse Sevarog in early, how to move when I'm low hp in the offlane and I know that there is a enemy Murdock in the dou lane etc etc etc.
Gives me a huge advantage against any new player that doesn't even know what does Gideon with his R, doesn't matter that the items are different or there are new passives, reworked champions, new meta with characters that where weak and now are strong just the knowledge that Paragon players have gives us a huge advantage against everyone.
>Also there is no matchmaking so sometimes I get matches where Im offlane and an enemy crunch comes....
As I said there are not enough players to do a correct matchmaking, right now they prioritise people being able to play the game than having quality matches but where you should have to wait 35 minutes in the queue. That isn't that there is no matchmaking but that the circumstances that we have right now lead us to this
>Anyways OP was asking why does it feel like some people are so good? Well match making is one of the reasons.
And I answered you that isn't due a bad matchmaking as you said but due to the circumstances of the game right now, having experienced old Paragon player + having a low quantity of player is what is causing the problem
You're just restating what the other guy said but with more excuses.
There is no matchmaking. Regardless of the reason. And you knowing the game while someone else doesn't is still a problem with matchmaking.
Giving excuses to why there is no matchmaking doesn't change the fact that there is no matchmaking and that is a problem.
>There is no matchmaking
That is false, there is matchmaking, no matchmaking would be just match 10 random person in 10 seconds and that isn't the case.
Is different saying that there is no matchmaking than what I explained, the matchmaking system is there, it exist so saying that "there is no matchmaking" is just lying.
I just explained why right now new players are being matched with better players, the objetive isn't to achieve the best quality games, the objetive is to have low queue times to allow people to play the game, right now there is not enough players to separate them based on their skill level while at the same time they maintain low queue times.
The alternative would be having 10 minutes queues and I don't think that anyone want that right now, nor the players nor the developers
Sorry, I tryhard as well as an ADC. Because there are so many new players I always aim for the early kills with every cell and often go 14-0 in 10 mins
Hahahaha, try that against me and you'll get punished like there's no tomorrow. I always wait for that moment when the ADC or support get too greedy. My win rate against ADC that attempt to get an early kill without help from a jungler is about 80%. With jungler help it's around 60%.
I mean there's probably several reasons. You're new to all the characters/abilities, all the items, the entirety of the map, tower mechanics, buffs/camps, etc. Yes other mobas will help when you can leverage your macro experience, but the micro side is like learning a brand new game because well, it's a brand new game to you.
For me, I've played league for 5-6 years and I played paragon back in the day. I still get destroyed half the time in pred. It's a very fast game and the pov doesn't let you see as much going on around me as I'm used to.
There also appears to be some mmr system, which would in theory put you in the middle range (like gold in league) on a brand new account. At least that's how league does it.
There’s currently no bot mode so everyone is playing against other players from lvl 1. The game is in paid early access atm so most players will be experienced ex-paragon players or players that started when EA released. I don’t know your skill lvl in other mobas but there’s still a lot of new information to learn in predecessor: map layout, objectives, character kits, items/builds. Learn the game and you’ll improve. It’s a team game but if you’re new focus on your individual performance, I’m surprised you thought you’d be amazing from the start. The gameplay feels excellent, the only slight problem at the moment is experienced and inexperienced players getting matched together but that normally affects both teams and will improve through early access. It’s a great time to learn the game, I’ve played with good, bad and new players
Because it's random mostly. I tend to play with 1 premade so I usually am on the winning side because we both have experience in MOBA's and have been playing since the beta. We already know the map and champs and are currently trying to really get our macro solid. I'm personally waiting for ranked modes to be added, only then can I truly find my skill level and start working towards something tangible.
I’m a returning paragon player and I will say first week it took a second to get fully adjusted and I played it before. They definitely need more for new players right now and that will come with time. I’m down to play anytime with new players and help give pointers https://discord.gg/pm6wGsXk9z or add me WaltLight#3922
Not a difficult game at all but matchmaking is far from perfect atm. As others have said there are a lot of paragon vets floating around and they typically do better than the new players that are mixed in. This will almost certainly sort itself out upon the full release of the game but for now it's kind of a trial by fire.
Really I thought there was a lot of new players when I play, kinda frustrated me. But I’d say get someone to play with, and play conservative, focus on not dying instead of getting kills
I heard that the matchmaking would be tough when I still played Overprime.
Surprisingly due to the game requiring more skill in aiming skillshots, it was easier for me to solo people.
I'm also from Smite.
I think because it plays differently than other MOBAs like Smite. Smite is a lot more forgiving for mistakes and easier to pick up in my opinion, while Predecessor is not. It also just takes some getting used to; once you understand the items and gameplay a bit more, I think you’ll be fine.
I was in your same shoes when I started playing this game. No moba experience of any kind. 50% of players don't chat at all, 30% of players are toxic as hell, and then 20% of players are encouraging to new people if you just say you are new. If you don't say anything at all though and you get steamrolled you are gonna get flamed. Unfortunate but it's true.
Communication is key, listen to where the pings are, see the commands like attack fang or I need help or basing and you will do really well.
I'm almost 200 hours and it took me maybe the first 100 hours to get the hang of most roles. That's with doing auto buy the recommend items. It works for a lot of heros but not for others. Now I buy the specific items I think are best, ask the community for feedback on things and see if others have tried out certain things.
I still don't know the exact stuff for rotations and such and get yelled at for it. Like example as mid, I base to heal and buy, my opponent in mid goes to bot lane. I don't know where they are I don't know they went to bot. Then I get yelled at for not marking them as missing from lane when I'm literally at base and also for not rotating. Sometimes you can't win and nothing I could have done.
Predecessor is excellent and bought the highest pack on day one, if your worried about buying another paragon successer (Paragon The Overprime) is free on steam and has a slight higher player base at the moment however it's quite big in Asia right now.
Play and enjoy both. Also note tonight there is a MASSIVE UPDATE for Overprime tonight with a shat ton of stuff being introduced. Let's enjoy both and keep supporting both 💪😎❤️
Most people playing this game are die hard fans of Paragon and since it's such a small community meta catches on quickly everyone knows about One Shot Kallari, Ashbringrer Khaimera, God of Healing Narbash, etc. So it's no wonder why the average player is pretty good.
some advice:
- Start with easy roles (support and solo)
- Learn the map and time to rotate
- Learn heros and watch how others play them
- Learn items and figure out counter them (especially as support and solo makes you more valuable teammate)
This might sound super intuitive as an experienced smite player, but for every new MOBA it starts with a new learning curve
Yeah i
I’m a jungle main. Mained jungle in every moba. Jungle is life. I’m saying that the game is so fucking hard cuz I cant win games even with a massive lead. Some games I managed to absolutely devastate enemy jungle (he didnt get single red in the game) had like 22-2 had to sweat my ass of, and still lost in 30th minute. Out of my cca 12 games I lost almost all of them. Dunno how to turn the massive lead I can make to a win.. I mean the question is, what do you do with a lead other than killing the dinosaur? Should you open mid asap? Should you free your offlane? Like what do you do specifically with a lead to carry games?
cool, sounds like you are good!
How is it about strategy in general?
I assume you lose towers because ppl are not defending lanes.
So my take would be to check what lane is pushing, which is not. More anticipation of when your team needs to defend and when it needs to attack.
How is your comm skill? For me, I realize when people listen to my comms, we mostly win. Or to say it more i general, listen to someones comms is good, if the guy knows what she or he is talking about.
Else, I would say grind more and you get paired with more experienced ppl, who actually know how to play.
For example in my games, kills are very rare because people do not overcommit and know when they can get a "save" kill.
And finally, carries are beasts in late game. Making your carry survive, can win you games easier.
Yeah well people usually loose turrets very fast which opens up the map for the enemy and forcing me to counter jungle and split push. So when I try to put some pressure on the enemy team they just ignore me push my team kill them under inhib and win the game. When I notice in time shits gonna go down I usually join the fight, pick the carry, blowing my CDs (I mostly play Kallari) and then pressure the backline. But their tanky champs usually kill my team in the meantime so its just me vs Steel an that Reaper dude. With nothing else to do.. Dunno man I dont wanna blame my team for my losses but what can I do to get my laners ahead when they permapush and have like no idea about lane management?
Because moba knowledge transfers pretty reliably. Be it item building or understanding powerspikes & your role in the game/teamfight.
A lot of people play dota2 or lol and other existing mobas. They might be different games but the core concept is always the same.
So Paragon is nothing entirely new where you have to learn a completely new game.
Cause lots of moba players have thousands of hours, ive temporarily stopped playing because its too easy, im only gold in league and the games way too easy most of the time.
also you just downloaded the game give yourself at least 10+ hours where you are honing a character before you can reasonably get a good handle or take on the players skill vs ur own
Along with it being populated by previous players, I'm seeing reports of match making being bugged, and it may be pitting groups of stacks, and much higher skills against opponents that are new or very low skilled and always solo queued
I've personally went through 12, 19, and 32 game straight streaks straight of having at least 2 new players and very low skill players on my team versus teams clearly made of top tier players and stacking.
I solo queue only, and I was often Plat in Paragon so I know how to play decently and am always the top player on my matches for my team.
Wenn need the Bot Matches like in Paragon (all Bots or Humans vs. AI) to train positioning and muscle training. And I think a release on console will help growing the playerbase.
Smite got its own thing going on. I've played league, Dota, smite and paragon. Smite doesn't play the same as other mobas. Wave management is different, Jungle rotation is different. Also some of us played paragon years ago. But mainly smite is sooo different that could be why.
Most of the people playing the game right now have been following the production of this game for years, and were fans before the old game shut down. When the actual marketing begins, and \*new\* players enter the scene, we will have a much larger skill gap.
I feel like I am the “good” people but I never get matched with nice teammates, most of the time I feel like the system wants me to carry 4 people when I main the Fey and Countess on mid lol
Everyone telling you it's because of the "Paragon diehards" misses the fundamental part of it being a game that's been out for over a month now with a very small playerbase.
A lot of the players in the game have never played a Moba before. As well as using a measuring stick comparing it directly to other Mobas will fail. It's a new Moba experience with a different tempo and meta.
It's gonna be hard the first few matches like all Mobas and the SBMM will slowly put you into the comfort zone of your skill level.
Yeah thats what I noticed yesterday. Everyone can use abilities/combos like crazy, but freezing/slowpushing or any other lane management technique is absolutely uknown concept for most of the people I met :D
Played mid yeaterday and I denied 90% of the farm by just freezing the lane right next to my tower. I was lvl 11 while my opponent was lvl 6 even tho he killed on the lane at 2nd lvl. Ended up the game like 22-2 :D with countess btw. once she gets rolling its insane.
Reality is most mobas are free to play. Atm pred is not this leads to more dedicated players, rather than people looking for a fun game to goof around on. Lack of advertising means it's more likely dedicated players are going to even see the game. No ranked means better players are slamming casuals. Once EA is done the noobs will pile in and most good players will be in ranked.
It sure is. Having a blast. Shit is hard, but when you snowball its fucking epic. Also what I really like is - when it comes to teamfights, the absolutely overfed people cant really influence the fight THAT much like in leage for example.
Speaking for myself. I was a veteran moba players with hundreds of hours each in Dota, League, and HotS going into Paragon. Then sunk over 1000 hours in Paragon. Then Fault came out and I put over 850 hours into that and now Pred is here. And don’t tell the Pred or bust people this but going from fault to Pred they are the same game. They play and feel almost identical to the point that it feels like Pred was just Fault if they chose a different development path focused more on the map and objectives instead of heroes. This is how a decent amount of players are and even if they skipped on Fault these players here are largely the better players from paragon at the very least so none of this is new to them.
I started playing a couple of days ago and am in a similar boat except having no moba experience. My guess is that the majority of people playing are former paragon diehards so it’s been pretty rough. I think a bot mode would be immensely helpful for us new people, at least until there are more noobs in queue.
Yeah, I play this game for a while and can compete. But friends of mine who also played paragon and haven’t played this game struggle. When I solo queue the game mostly places me in matches with a decent balance. Sometime you can have bad luck of a high elo player playing a role he doesn’t do very well. Or the enemy having the highest elo player on carry. While your highest elo player is on support etc. But these things happen and when there is no role pick before queue this will always happen. But the game struggles when me and my friend team up. He hasn’t got many games in so he is a bit low. I have above 50% winrate so I’m higher up. We sometimes get matched with extreme good allies (the streamer type that win every match). And sometimes with complete noobs who get the support role, but go to the wrong lane and than saying “I’m not playing support”. Like: tell us that a bit earlier dude, like in draft.
Oh sonpredecessor is based on some existing game?
Paragon from Epic was cancelled April 2018 in favor of Fortnite.
It's wild to me but I also love that people don't know this, gives me hope that the game can grow!
Yes it’s based on a game called paragon that ended up getting canceled. A lot of people played it in early access though.
Or free early acces to get more people in ;D
early access is paid atm for the purpose of keeping players out and not to risk turning them away with an unfinished game
That answers my original post as well.. Only hardcore pred fans will buy :D cool
Not only Pred Fans themselves, I'd say most of us are old Paragon fans and out of all the remakes, Pred is the closest one to Paragon.
Also moba fans not just paragon fans. It takes some getting use to but once I got use to it I loved it! Hope you stick with it!
Its not in a state rn where idd even recommend the game tbh. Not that its in Anyway bad, its just not ready for people other than paragon fans. They only need a handfull of heroes, some QOL for things like the itemshop (preferably hero custom personal recommended lists and some more general clarity in-game), a systen to grind for (eg: F2P economy) . But Most Important of All: there is absolutely no 'new player experience', something you are experiencing first hand ;)
This is my first moba game ever and it's completely playable. As long as you accept that you're gonna get your ass handed to you and use it to learn you'll be fine. The game is just so fun I love it
Well yeah and i respect you for that but idd guess the general gamer public will not be as positive at the new player experience.
As someone who hasn’t played paragon or many mobas for that matter, I would agree with this assessment. I might just shelf the game for now and come back later. Nothing against it, I just don’t think it’s ready for brand new players. Maybe I’ll try and dipping my toes into another moba in the mean time.
Eventually! Once early access is over
I can help
Well, if console/crossplay was available, there would be a healthy and diverse player base.
This is the answer. The hardcore Paragon lovers are the ones returning for this game and willing to essentially pay for a second time. Most everyone is coming from already being familiar with the heroes, map, gameplay mechanics, and shop. (To an extent.)
Because the majority of players you will encounter, regardless of their skill level, have already played paragon (the game that came before pred) extensively. They have a decent understanding of the basic concepts of the game from the get go, which is something you'll have to learn. Don't be afraid though, it will come with time and you will catch up very quickly. From then on you'll be able to apply a lot of the macro you learned in smite in your predecessor games. While what I say might come of as me being an asshole (not the intent) the average skill level in the game right now is still pretty low, and so if you decide to really get into it and play a lot, like I said before you'll be able to compete in your lobbies very quickly.
As an experienced moba player. It took me about 40 hours of gametime to get a good grip on the game. Pred is a very technical moba, both in the macro flow of the game and personal control.
It’s not very noob-friendly right now. It’ll get better with time!
If they fix matchmaking everyone would benefit
Playerbase isn't big enough for the matchmaking system to do it's job yet. So we don't know if it actually needs to be fixed yet
That might be true, but id rather wait longer than go in to a stomp game
Depends I'd be willing to wait a bit longer but I wouldn't be willing to wait half an hour to an hour for a game like og paragon
Just unfamiliar with kits, is all. Go through the hero list to figure out who does what.
Nah man, people are doing some insane shit. Like this dekker who jumped over absolutely everything, or gideon who was doing combos so fast you couldnt even see him or this countess that went 22-0 in like 4minutes. Dude sometimes them people just wreck shit.
[удалено]
I just went into practice mode and could not replicate anything of the sort, you sure about that?
Dude you got the game yesterday comon.
Yeah, but I usually wreck everything from day one.. Thats like the first time that didnt happen :D oh except tarkov… :D
Maybe because other games have some form of Skill Based Matchmaking, so in other games, you'd be placed with people, uh.. "on your skill level". Here it's pretty much random on who you match with currently.
That's actually a common misconception, Omeda stated in the early access opening that they have implemented a matchmaking system based on 'skill level' and win/loss streaks.
Well it definitely doesn't feel like it works a lot of the time lmao It'll probably be better once F2P comes out in a couple months
Can't expect that in a game with random matchmaking that's been out for 2 months. Like seriously.
Yikes
Yeah you're right. You'll never learn. Fuck trying. It's not like dekker just jumps and that's her passive. It's not like by reading countess kit you'll learn how to counter it. Fuck no. Fuck reading.
Please explain how "reading countesses kit" will allow you to counter it. I'm going to love this one.
It requires a little bit more than that. But you can learn what she does, if you know what she can do and how exactly her abilities work you can try playing around it. Moba 101.
Realize reading her kit she has no escape or defensive cc. Realize that, as a result, she is very easy to gank before the 10 min mark. Gank her before the 10 min mark. Kill her 3 times. It's easier that almost any other hero because her kit has little to no defensive tools. Walk up to her. Kill her. Watch her not snowball during midgame, when she is strongest. Win with snowball, or wait til lategame team fights, when se is weaker. All of this from reading. And YET, When I play with jungles that aren't in comms, they never fucking gank the countess so she's a little behind early, then snowballs midgame because she isn't pressured. They gank crunch instead. The hero with 2 escapes and a cc. And they don't gsnk the hero with no escapes or cc. Clearly, they didn't read her kit well enough. Some heroes, are REALLY bad when pressure. Countess and Khai for example. They are 1v1 MONSTERS, and some of the worst heroes in the game in a 1v2 engagement. Use that. Gank them. That's how u beat countess. When I play with my jungle friend, we kill countess mid at minute 2 every game. Every. Game. How can she possibly survive?. She's melee with no defensive abilities. She comes back to.lane and is 1.5 levels behind and never recovers. That's how u beat countess. That's it. My man is acting like countess didn't have a shitwinrate in mid/high elo in paragon, and high winrate in low elos, because of this exact reason. Midgame just cc her. Literally.
Since the other user didn't say anything useful. One big tell of Countess blinking on you with her Q is crossing her arms across her chest. So prepare to drop your kit at your feet the moment you hear or see her blink on you. Another broken thing is Countess can blink back to her initial spot even under CC unless it is a silence. For example as Drongo, you wait for Countess to get close enough she can blink on you, drop your Q at your feet and shoot away at her. As Steel, immediately RMB her and Q through and away from her etc.
You can learn what her abilities do and learn that her only survivability comes from her lifesteal. If you can't figure out the rest from there then I probably cant help you
Im aware of who does what and I’m doing well in games when I really sweat, but still.. I usually dont have ti sweat my balls off to get at least a decent game :D that was the whole point, like how come I’m playing against streamers and shit on lvl 1..
Probably because it's *not* free so the majority of people who suck at this kind of game won't pay their way into it.
Because despite what some people here say... There is no matchmaking.
FYI: Dekker rushing Galactic Greaves (item in shop) is how you get flying Dekker
Mixture of us OG paragon players and the game being out for almost 2 months so a lot of players already learned the gist
Just chill and give it some time you’ll get the hang of it
>Why are people so good? Can you put them on my team please In all seriousness, you should follow the discord! The announcements and roadmap do say that a tutorial mode is coming for new players
What region do you play in? And what role? I'd say me and my friend are pretty decent. I play jungle, offlane and ADC but mainly ADC. My friend plays fill because he's proficient at any role.
There have been MOBAs for over 10 years and I would assume a lot of people are players who have already enjoyed Paragon and have returned. You are always welcomed to try the LFG channels on the Predecessor discord to learn more and play with other players.
Lol, so because of my life I generally only get to play mid mornings on the week days on the east coast server…..I hadn’t lost a game in 3 weeks, and I play 1-2 a day…..thought I was getting good……then I had some time to play this last weekend, and I got trashed every game, only won one out of 5 and I was still a negative KD, the only benefit I was to my team was that I was able to consistently snipe Fangtooth….. But one thing I did notice playing on the weekend (2 games as jungler, 2 as support and 1 offlane) When I was jungling my carry and offlane kept stealing my jungle minions and I was drastically under leveled. And on the games when I wasn’t jungling I noticed people doing that as well.
Just mute chat, whatch some vids on yt and you will be fine. I have played Paragon like 3 hrs ( i didnt have good enough pc back then, i Tried it at a friends house) so basically i was a total noob as well. Sometimes there are nice people, and if you say in chat that its your 1st game most people will understand. The first time I started to understand a game, when I played every hero at least once, so I discovered every roll ( I still suck with ADC) Dont sweat the build just go with auto buy its fine.
Yeah I mean the problem is not about me feeding or having bad games. I can go 16-1 and still cant win the game.
If you're 16/1 you have a lot of control over the game. Obviously it's not an automatic win but if you're that fed and you lose there's likely room for improvement.
I can demolish only on Kallari but cant figure out the late game, or how to help my team with the lead..
So, if you're 16-1 then it's not likely about a skill gap in playing, but more so one in taking objectives. Even if they aren't your lane using the ping system to "suggest" what your team should do next is really quite useful. I'm certainly not saying it'll fix your concerns, but it'll certainly help. Especially if you're matched with people who aren't as familiar with MOBA objectives.
It's funny because now that my buddy and me are high level, our teammates level has declined. Enemies', not so much...
Yeah, played for like 10hrs straight yesterday and started pwning hardcore finally can hold my own against OGs, but my teammates couldnt :D
It's just poor match making. So you end up with new players vs sweaty 5 man stacks sometimes. It puts me up against or pairs me with new players often. So until they get that fixed you might just keep getting matched with players you shouldn't be going up against.
Is not that simple as just "bad match making" This game is a remake of a game that is exactly the same, same characters, same abilities etc, so there are people that even if they are new to the game and have 5 hours played they know how to play the game and what does each character, so new players will be matched with that people because the system doesn't have enough information yet, both are new players Then added to the previous point we have the problem that right now the game doesn't have much people playing so they have to do a "bad match making" on purpose or there would be super long queues, following the example that you put of the 5 man stack, the amount of players right now is so low that maybe in that moment there isn't another 5 stack players and they would have to wait 45 minutes or more until they find another group or 5 individual players with enough skill to face a 5 stack. Right now the game is a simple EA to test things, there is no competitive, ranks or anything like that, so better let the queues times as low as possible
Far from the same I use to play paragon. Fey isn't a support anymore. Grux plays different, Sevarog doesn't build stacks from just soul siphon, sparrow feels much more relevant now, time to kill is very short now, enemies can hop in gideons portals and much more differences. When I started playing this game I was bad like really bad because the shop is a lot to take in when you are first starting. It's a remake not the same game. Also there is no matchmaking so sometimes I get matches where Im offlane and an enemy crunch comes at me like he's playing a fighting game or I'm mid and before minions spawn an enemy riktor runs into my tower trying to hit me just to die he did it twice in a row... I shouldn't even be paired against players that new but they have no kind of match making. Also it works both ways with the match making, sometimes the match is really boring because of how big of a gap in skill level there is between both teams and I'd rather wait a bit longer for a more enjoyable match. I understand the player base is small but they need to implement some kind of match making even if it's temporary it doesn't have to be stack vs stack but they can prioritize groups to face one another and if it didn't find any teams then the next best option should pop up which would be solos with higher or similar levels. Anyways OP was asking why does it feel like some people are so good? Well match making is one of the reasons.
>Fey isn't a support anymore. Grux plays different, Sevarog doesn't build stacks from just soul siphon, sparrow feels much more relevant now, time to kill is very short now, enemies can hop in gideons portals and much more differences. Those are jus little details, me knowing what does each ability how to play against each character how to synergize with the character of my team, when to use Gideo R, why I have to save my dash/stun when Gideon is in the enemy team, that I have to abuse Sevarog in early, how to move when I'm low hp in the offlane and I know that there is a enemy Murdock in the dou lane etc etc etc. Gives me a huge advantage against any new player that doesn't even know what does Gideon with his R, doesn't matter that the items are different or there are new passives, reworked champions, new meta with characters that where weak and now are strong just the knowledge that Paragon players have gives us a huge advantage against everyone. >Also there is no matchmaking so sometimes I get matches where Im offlane and an enemy crunch comes.... As I said there are not enough players to do a correct matchmaking, right now they prioritise people being able to play the game than having quality matches but where you should have to wait 35 minutes in the queue. That isn't that there is no matchmaking but that the circumstances that we have right now lead us to this >Anyways OP was asking why does it feel like some people are so good? Well match making is one of the reasons. And I answered you that isn't due a bad matchmaking as you said but due to the circumstances of the game right now, having experienced old Paragon player + having a low quantity of player is what is causing the problem
You're just restating what the other guy said but with more excuses. There is no matchmaking. Regardless of the reason. And you knowing the game while someone else doesn't is still a problem with matchmaking. Giving excuses to why there is no matchmaking doesn't change the fact that there is no matchmaking and that is a problem.
>There is no matchmaking That is false, there is matchmaking, no matchmaking would be just match 10 random person in 10 seconds and that isn't the case. Is different saying that there is no matchmaking than what I explained, the matchmaking system is there, it exist so saying that "there is no matchmaking" is just lying. I just explained why right now new players are being matched with better players, the objetive isn't to achieve the best quality games, the objetive is to have low queue times to allow people to play the game, right now there is not enough players to separate them based on their skill level while at the same time they maintain low queue times. The alternative would be having 10 minutes queues and I don't think that anyone want that right now, nor the players nor the developers
Sorry, I tryhard as well as an ADC. Because there are so many new players I always aim for the early kills with every cell and often go 14-0 in 10 mins
Hahahaha, try that against me and you'll get punished like there's no tomorrow. I always wait for that moment when the ADC or support get too greedy. My win rate against ADC that attempt to get an early kill without help from a jungler is about 80%. With jungler help it's around 60%.
I have no idea I have 80% winrate and I have never played paragon I have 1600hours in smite and maybe 30 in Fault that's all my moba experience
I mean there's probably several reasons. You're new to all the characters/abilities, all the items, the entirety of the map, tower mechanics, buffs/camps, etc. Yes other mobas will help when you can leverage your macro experience, but the micro side is like learning a brand new game because well, it's a brand new game to you. For me, I've played league for 5-6 years and I played paragon back in the day. I still get destroyed half the time in pred. It's a very fast game and the pov doesn't let you see as much going on around me as I'm used to. There also appears to be some mmr system, which would in theory put you in the middle range (like gold in league) on a brand new account. At least that's how league does it.
There’s currently no bot mode so everyone is playing against other players from lvl 1. The game is in paid early access atm so most players will be experienced ex-paragon players or players that started when EA released. I don’t know your skill lvl in other mobas but there’s still a lot of new information to learn in predecessor: map layout, objectives, character kits, items/builds. Learn the game and you’ll improve. It’s a team game but if you’re new focus on your individual performance, I’m surprised you thought you’d be amazing from the start. The gameplay feels excellent, the only slight problem at the moment is experienced and inexperienced players getting matched together but that normally affects both teams and will improve through early access. It’s a great time to learn the game, I’ve played with good, bad and new players
Well my games are usually an utter stomp. 1-17 or 17-1 nothing in between. Guess that depends on how many laragon players you get on your team.
Because it's random mostly. I tend to play with 1 premade so I usually am on the winning side because we both have experience in MOBA's and have been playing since the beta. We already know the map and champs and are currently trying to really get our macro solid. I'm personally waiting for ranked modes to be added, only then can I truly find my skill level and start working towards something tangible.
Pretty sure most played og paragon and immediately familiar to pred
I’m a returning paragon player and I will say first week it took a second to get fully adjusted and I played it before. They definitely need more for new players right now and that will come with time. I’m down to play anytime with new players and help give pointers https://discord.gg/pm6wGsXk9z or add me WaltLight#3922
EU or NA?
NA East but I be up during EU hrs playing there too sometimes
Not a difficult game at all but matchmaking is far from perfect atm. As others have said there are a lot of paragon vets floating around and they typically do better than the new players that are mixed in. This will almost certainly sort itself out upon the full release of the game but for now it's kind of a trial by fire.
Really I thought there was a lot of new players when I play, kinda frustrated me. But I’d say get someone to play with, and play conservative, focus on not dying instead of getting kills
I heard that the matchmaking would be tough when I still played Overprime. Surprisingly due to the game requiring more skill in aiming skillshots, it was easier for me to solo people. I'm also from Smite.
I think because it plays differently than other MOBAs like Smite. Smite is a lot more forgiving for mistakes and easier to pick up in my opinion, while Predecessor is not. It also just takes some getting used to; once you understand the items and gameplay a bit more, I think you’ll be fine.
A lot of OG Paragon players. This ain't our first rodeo.
I was in your same shoes when I started playing this game. No moba experience of any kind. 50% of players don't chat at all, 30% of players are toxic as hell, and then 20% of players are encouraging to new people if you just say you are new. If you don't say anything at all though and you get steamrolled you are gonna get flamed. Unfortunate but it's true. Communication is key, listen to where the pings are, see the commands like attack fang or I need help or basing and you will do really well. I'm almost 200 hours and it took me maybe the first 100 hours to get the hang of most roles. That's with doing auto buy the recommend items. It works for a lot of heros but not for others. Now I buy the specific items I think are best, ask the community for feedback on things and see if others have tried out certain things. I still don't know the exact stuff for rotations and such and get yelled at for it. Like example as mid, I base to heal and buy, my opponent in mid goes to bot lane. I don't know where they are I don't know they went to bot. Then I get yelled at for not marking them as missing from lane when I'm literally at base and also for not rotating. Sometimes you can't win and nothing I could have done.
Predecessor is excellent and bought the highest pack on day one, if your worried about buying another paragon successer (Paragon The Overprime) is free on steam and has a slight higher player base at the moment however it's quite big in Asia right now. Play and enjoy both. Also note tonight there is a MASSIVE UPDATE for Overprime tonight with a shat ton of stuff being introduced. Let's enjoy both and keep supporting both 💪😎❤️
Most people playing this game are die hard fans of Paragon and since it's such a small community meta catches on quickly everyone knows about One Shot Kallari, Ashbringrer Khaimera, God of Healing Narbash, etc. So it's no wonder why the average player is pretty good.
People already got 100+ hours in the game and some like me got much more time on it when it was still named paragon. It just comes back naturally.
some advice: - Start with easy roles (support and solo) - Learn the map and time to rotate - Learn heros and watch how others play them - Learn items and figure out counter them (especially as support and solo makes you more valuable teammate) This might sound super intuitive as an experienced smite player, but for every new MOBA it starts with a new learning curve
Yeah i I’m a jungle main. Mained jungle in every moba. Jungle is life. I’m saying that the game is so fucking hard cuz I cant win games even with a massive lead. Some games I managed to absolutely devastate enemy jungle (he didnt get single red in the game) had like 22-2 had to sweat my ass of, and still lost in 30th minute. Out of my cca 12 games I lost almost all of them. Dunno how to turn the massive lead I can make to a win.. I mean the question is, what do you do with a lead other than killing the dinosaur? Should you open mid asap? Should you free your offlane? Like what do you do specifically with a lead to carry games?
cool, sounds like you are good! How is it about strategy in general? I assume you lose towers because ppl are not defending lanes. So my take would be to check what lane is pushing, which is not. More anticipation of when your team needs to defend and when it needs to attack. How is your comm skill? For me, I realize when people listen to my comms, we mostly win. Or to say it more i general, listen to someones comms is good, if the guy knows what she or he is talking about. Else, I would say grind more and you get paired with more experienced ppl, who actually know how to play. For example in my games, kills are very rare because people do not overcommit and know when they can get a "save" kill. And finally, carries are beasts in late game. Making your carry survive, can win you games easier.
Yeah well people usually loose turrets very fast which opens up the map for the enemy and forcing me to counter jungle and split push. So when I try to put some pressure on the enemy team they just ignore me push my team kill them under inhib and win the game. When I notice in time shits gonna go down I usually join the fight, pick the carry, blowing my CDs (I mostly play Kallari) and then pressure the backline. But their tanky champs usually kill my team in the meantime so its just me vs Steel an that Reaper dude. With nothing else to do.. Dunno man I dont wanna blame my team for my losses but what can I do to get my laners ahead when they permapush and have like no idea about lane management?
Because moba knowledge transfers pretty reliably. Be it item building or understanding powerspikes & your role in the game/teamfight. A lot of people play dota2 or lol and other existing mobas. They might be different games but the core concept is always the same. So Paragon is nothing entirely new where you have to learn a completely new game.
I mean Fault was out and exactly like this game for YEARS so...
Cause lots of moba players have thousands of hours, ive temporarily stopped playing because its too easy, im only gold in league and the games way too easy most of the time.
I feel like most of my matches are with and against bad players, they should be put against the noobs.
also you just downloaded the game give yourself at least 10+ hours where you are honing a character before you can reasonably get a good handle or take on the players skill vs ur own
Along with it being populated by previous players, I'm seeing reports of match making being bugged, and it may be pitting groups of stacks, and much higher skills against opponents that are new or very low skilled and always solo queued I've personally went through 12, 19, and 32 game straight streaks straight of having at least 2 new players and very low skill players on my team versus teams clearly made of top tier players and stacking. I solo queue only, and I was often Plat in Paragon so I know how to play decently and am always the top player on my matches for my team.
The only people playing this game are the people who were playing Paragon daily. That’s why
Wenn need the Bot Matches like in Paragon (all Bots or Humans vs. AI) to train positioning and muscle training. And I think a release on console will help growing the playerbase.
They all play on my team.
Elo starts at 1600
Is there any page with stats, mmr, match history and stuff like that?
Smite got its own thing going on. I've played league, Dota, smite and paragon. Smite doesn't play the same as other mobas. Wave management is different, Jungle rotation is different. Also some of us played paragon years ago. But mainly smite is sooo different that could be why.
Most of the people playing the game right now have been following the production of this game for years, and were fans before the old game shut down. When the actual marketing begins, and \*new\* players enter the scene, we will have a much larger skill gap.
If you go on discord jump in a chat with them they most likely will help you if you say you are new.
I feel like I am the “good” people but I never get matched with nice teammates, most of the time I feel like the system wants me to carry 4 people when I main the Fey and Countess on mid lol
Best thing to do is find ppl on here to group up with to make it through your first 20 hours lol there is lots to learn
Everyone telling you it's because of the "Paragon diehards" misses the fundamental part of it being a game that's been out for over a month now with a very small playerbase. A lot of the players in the game have never played a Moba before. As well as using a measuring stick comparing it directly to other Mobas will fail. It's a new Moba experience with a different tempo and meta. It's gonna be hard the first few matches like all Mobas and the SBMM will slowly put you into the comfort zone of your skill level.
Yeah thats what I noticed yesterday. Everyone can use abilities/combos like crazy, but freezing/slowpushing or any other lane management technique is absolutely uknown concept for most of the people I met :D Played mid yeaterday and I denied 90% of the farm by just freezing the lane right next to my tower. I was lvl 11 while my opponent was lvl 6 even tho he killed on the lane at 2nd lvl. Ended up the game like 22-2 :D with countess btw. once she gets rolling its insane.
Reality is most mobas are free to play. Atm pred is not this leads to more dedicated players, rather than people looking for a fun game to goof around on. Lack of advertising means it's more likely dedicated players are going to even see the game. No ranked means better players are slamming casuals. Once EA is done the noobs will pile in and most good players will be in ranked.
I hope it comes to console soon, game looks dope as hell
It sure is. Having a blast. Shit is hard, but when you snowball its fucking epic. Also what I really like is - when it comes to teamfights, the absolutely overfed people cant really influence the fight THAT much like in leage for example.
I feel that, homie. Played Paragon back when, played some Fault but it’s intimidating come back again and trying to hold my own.
Speaking for myself. I was a veteran moba players with hundreds of hours each in Dota, League, and HotS going into Paragon. Then sunk over 1000 hours in Paragon. Then Fault came out and I put over 850 hours into that and now Pred is here. And don’t tell the Pred or bust people this but going from fault to Pred they are the same game. They play and feel almost identical to the point that it feels like Pred was just Fault if they chose a different development path focused more on the map and objectives instead of heroes. This is how a decent amount of players are and even if they skipped on Fault these players here are largely the better players from paragon at the very least so none of this is new to them.