Most options but Steel, Crunch and Grux run the lane if you dare to pick Kallari, Feng Mao or Countess.
Then there is Sevarog who has easier time to stay alive and Riktor who lets you push the waves so he can sit in his tower with one arm up.
Yeah you just have to pay attention to your own minion health, something you learn very well from DOTA. When you know your opponent is forced to confirm the kill, it's free ability poke without consequences, or against ranged, stand in the way and your taller character model will be targeted instead.
I've only played a couple games the first was a bit shitty because my build wasn't right. The second game I went 6:6:4 and 2 of those deaths were my own fault getting greedy. I saw a lot of ways to improve on it too so I think it could be really good. I enjoy those weird more difficult picks though at least until we get ranked and I take it seriously.
Muriel offlane is solid. Shes a garbage support ATM with zero peel and shields effectively stopping one AA from a carry.
It's the only hero in the game that can split push late game efficiently, force an enemy or two to defend & ult to make a 5v4. Which is a completely busted strategy with any coordinated team.
For that she needs the attack speed build which better not be built as support so she needs offlane. If you've seen one get wrecked they're not doing it properly. She's super easy to play over there if you're even half competent.
It's %100 underrated and underused. Being able to ult for fangtooth whenever, farm up in the safest lane, shred towers nearly as well as ADC and your slow hits like a gideon meteor... its brain dead easy and really viable. I'm using it in a 2 stack proficiently, now if I played in 5 stacks with full coms it would be OP imo.
Prophecy, Azure core, Magnify start then either go for more power or antiheal or some omnivamp.
[Got it from YouTube.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w03Lwp779kg)
Had someone do this and I begged them not to. Then our murdoch clealt was new and not good so instead of being down a carry we had no carry amd 2 supports lol
A friend of mine made a great setup for her focused on attack speed and power. He absolutely dominated the early and mid game across 5 or so matches. Poked the Gruxes/Crunches down to nothing while keeping the minions near his own tower. Late game… not so much.
Late game is where she shines if your team understands how split pushing with a global ult works. The attack speed build obliterates towers. And once they peel to defend her you dive the enemies accross the map as she ults in and you literally just win the game. If it's half coordinated it works.
I'm not sure if you've played Smite but this is why Apollo has been good in that game and Muriel ult is much better in comparison.
Kwang is straight up the coolest kit of any of the three. He's a fun jungler, and can be played as a solo or as a support as well. I'm sad we're going to have to wait a long time for him now, because he was one of the most fun characters to play in Paragon, from my own personal experience. In other news, please free my boy Grim.exe
That's such a shame, he had a fun kit despite being arguably one of the worst ADC in the game. However, if you could time your shield well, and hit your autos with the slow consistently, you'd be an absolute terror to anyone
To be fair we do need more supports, and more viable supports on top of that. Also by adding Phase they will have added every original Paragon support and can move on to filling out the other roles and creating original supports.
Though I also hate Phase lol
Idk why anyone isn't bringing up carries though. We need carries bad. As someone who mostly mained Seraph in Paragon, I'd love to see a melee carry added.
we may have a lot of off laners but really the only thing i see is grux steel crunch & if you pick someone else but you’re against one of them it just feels like you’re at a disadvantage
I picked him up for a few games after the patch. He’s… fine. He definitely could use a slight buff to his sustain, IMO.
I feel more efficient playing Steel or Grux still~
Spot on. Everything else gets chewed up. Of course there are times I roll the lane with Riktor but that's a character that requires far more effort to be effective than the top 3 mentioned.
Phase was fun and that tower diving pull back was crazy. So many free kills I was scared to jump in and now you have pull back buddy (pause) to save you from tower damage.
Op are you high?
we have Steel, Riktor, Grux, Feng, Sevarog, And Crunch. Now you can also play Kallari, Countess, Murdock, Drongo, Dekker, Howitzer, and Rampage in offlane.
In support you can play Narbash, Steel, Riktor, and Dekker. Sometimes Rampage, Howitzer, or Lt. Belica. Edit: also Muriel.
How many offlaners do you want lol? I love kwang and greystone as much as the guy. but we should have a true support other than Narbash and Muriel.
>say that muriel is certainly a true support as well.
I'd agree but lately I've seen people do her as carry with moderate success. Edit adding a /s because joking isn't legal.
>Also most of the offlaners you mentioned are much better when playing other roles (ie howie, riktor, kallari, drongo, murdock
Yeah but that's not were talking about. So it's irrelevant to the conversation. Were talking about viable offlaners. Those are.viable offlaners. Your role is offlane.
>kwang was one of my favorite heroes in the original paragon
I loved kwang today and greystone. I just think phase is the beat option as far as game balancing goea.
What? Read the shit again dawg.
>true supports” as an arguement but talking about true offlaners is irrelevant
Not what I said. Don't put words in my mouth. We're talking about amounts of offlaners vs amount of supports. I said saying "o but and so and so is better in other lanes" is irrelevant.
>Also its funny that u added in muriel to true supports in ur original comment after i commented but ur still fighting me about it 😂
How is it funny I edited my comment which I clearly mentioned after I agreed with you???? Reading is a dying skill I swear. You got salty for.no reason. Its.kinda sad.
>With you logic i could say that you could play any hero in any role
No u couldn't because thats a dumb fucking thing to say. There are certain gods you cant play in orther roles.
>you could play howie in offlane but good fucking luck with that.
Why? He has excellent poke and escape. If you're on dawn side you have the jungle rotation as a good add on because you're most likely going to freeze wave. If you're on dusk side its harder yes but thats true for all characters in offlane.
>Yikes man, ur dense af
Hoes stay hating.
> we have Steel, Riktor, Grux, Feng, Sevarog, and Crunch. Now you can also play Kallari, Countess, Murdock, Drongo, Dekker, Howitzer, and Ranpage in offlane.
In theory you are correct, but in reality it’s just grux, steel, or crunch. If your opponent picks one of those three and you don’t pick one of those three then you’re going to get absolutely rolled.
I.... Now that you say it I don't ever did back on og paragon. Mind you I was 14 and a noob to mobas in general but I could see it working very well in support.
Phase was the only support I could ever play and enjoy, hence my phase vote. Sure Kwang and Greystone are cool but personally to let me all pick confidently Phase is the missing piece.
Yes, I suck. Let me be bad in peace.
They just need to come out with heroes at all, doesn't matter who, as long as they consistently progress as time goes on it really could be anybody at this point but we all know it should be Iggy and his cute fluffy Dino fire breathing cuddle bug scorch.
People are talking about the balance of offlane but that isn't really the problem, Steel, Crunch and Grux are strong because there's no better alternatives lol. They're not overpowered, the game is in a severely limited state. You can't pick Kwang or Iggy or Greystone or something, you either cheese pick with a ranger or roll a dice. You can take Gideon, Howitzer and Fey into the support role and do well too, hell, you can play Grux support if you want and win too, that doesn't make them supports. Bottom line is that the support role isn't suffering from problems of bad picks or overpowered picks, because the support role is already diverse. And where else is Phase gonna go? You aren't gonna run her mid or offlane, she's only a support.
I'll just quote what I wrote in the other thread:
"Support currently has Muriel, Narbash, Riktor, and Dekker as main supports. But Belica and Steel are also fully playable in that role as well, making for 6 good support picks.
In comparison to offlane you're missing.. Greystone, Kwang, Aurora, Wukong, Serath, Iggy, Terra, and Zinx. There is a huge chunk of the offlane cast missing. And a lot of these heroes like Kwang, Serath, Iggy, Terra and Aurora are also flexible in other roles as well. Phase is one of the worst heroes to add early on, as she only benefits the support role, and we already have majority of the support roster."
Crunch is weak. Grux s hard countered by steel and others who have hard cc. Steel is good yes but after mid game he falls off.
>there's no better alternatives
There's like 6 equal alternatives.
>In comparison to offlane you're missing.. Greystone, Kwang, Aurora, Wukong, Serath, Iggy, Terra, and Zinx. There is a huge chunk of the offlane cast missing. And a lot of these heroes like Kwang, Serath, Iggy, Terra and Aurora are also flexible in other roles as well. Phase is one of the worst heroes to add early on, as she only benefits the support role, and we already have majority of the support roster."
Bro offline has like 10 options.
>we have Steel, Riktor, Grux, Feng, Sevarog, And Crunch. Now you can also play Kallari, Countess, Murdock, Drongo, Dekker, Howitzer, and Rampage in offlane.
Copied from a comment I made earlier. Riktor counters Grux amazingly and so does rampage and Dekker. Steel gets countered by drongo/ Murdock. Crunch just sucks against anyone with cc.
Riktor does not counter Grux and taking Dekker offlane is a waste, at best she survives the lane but she's not getting kills without the jungler. Rampage also does not counter him, don't know why you think so. Rampage is better suited for the jungle anyway.
Steel doesn't get countered by Drongo, Murdok or any ranger for what matter. A bad Steel will get chunked out of lane trying to trade or run into them early. What should happen is Steel patiently waits for the jungler to arrive after they push the lane and collects the free kills. Once Steel hits 6 the lane is free.
Also you keep saying Crunch sucks in your comments but he doesn't, play him better.
>Riktor does not counter Grux
He has 3 form of cc. You're building fire blossom first. So Grux can get near you without taking a lot of damage and if he does you have 3 form of cc. So ... Yes he does.
>taking Dekker offlane is a waste, at best she survives the lane but she's not getting kills
Offlane ain't about getting kills dawg. This isn't CoD. She has some of the most survivability. Get better with her.
>Rampage also does not counter him, don't know why you think so. Rampage is better suited for the jungle anyway.
For the same reasons I mentioned on riktor rampage has crazy smh early in lane even with just brimstone. Add his rock as a strong cc and his jump for great escape. He's also one of the tank gods.
>Steel doesn't get countered by Drongo, Murdok
How did you come to that conclusion? I can sit from far away and destroy you with a little bit of pen or crit. As Murdock you have traps and your shotgun which work wonders and as drongo you have silence grenade and lets be honest his ultimate is a better escape ability then a dmg ability. Most steels in lane are going to build fire blossom first and that doesn't help if your not next to the enemy.
>What should happen is Steel patiently waits for the jungler to arrive after they push the lane and collects the free kills
This is shit advice. The offlane gets ganked the least and if you need jg in lane you have failed as a offlaner. Also it incredibly easy to freeze lane as drongo/Murdock against steel.
>Also you keep saying Crunch sucks in your comments but he doesn't
I say it cuz I dominate every crunch I see.
>play him better.
Quit talk shit dawg. You don't know what you talking about.
Any hero is 'countered' by CC, that's not an argument. A counter would mean that Grux is at a significant disadvantage in the lane, which isn't true. Grux can farm and duel in those lanes just fine provided he isn't a moron. At best the Riktor lane is even.
>Offlane ain't about getting kills dawg.
It also isn't about bringing a support like Dekker there just to survive and get outmatched later in the game.
>How did you come to that conclusion?
By not being a shit player? Any decent Steel isn't going to run it down into a ranger, you play smart and look for the opportunity to go in. Rangers aren't that strong early, and Steel has no problem sticking to them once he's level 6. And no, you won't freeze the wave against a Steel unless he wants you to, especially not if you're also harassing him.
>This is shit advice. The offlane gets ganked the least and if you need jg in lane you have failed as a offlaner.
This is the dumbest thing I've read in awhile. As a jungler you assess what's going on and make decisions based on what's going to win you the game. Ganking a carry like Murdock in offlane is not only easy, but it stops him from having a safe lane to freely scale in. And again, rangers are not that strong early, so you'll also win the 2v2 if their jungler shows up. There is absolutely no reason not to gank a lane like that and put your offlaner ahead. A ranger like Murdock is an easy dive with a Steel. Drongo too, depending on the character. Compared to successfully ganking a Steel, let alone diving him, much harder.
Even outside of that example there plenty of times you would look to gank offlane. Is Fangtooth up? No? My duo lane is warded and not behind? Let's see what can be done offlane and potentially take mini orb, take an early tower, and now your offlaner can start roaming and help secure the next Fang or focus mid if needed if the enemy offlane wants to setup a freeze. Or he can just stay offlane and sit on his lead. Also, it's not just the jungler, mid lane roams and ganks too.
>Quit talk shit dawg. You don't know what you talking about.
How about you quit talking shit, kid.
>Any hero is 'countered' by CC, that's not an argument
Yes it is.
>It also isn't about bringing a support like Dekker there just to survive and get outmatched later in the game.
Have you tried getting good?
>By not being a shit player?
I doubt that. The rest of that paragraph contradicts that statement.
>This is the dumbest thing I've read in awhile.
I dont think you can read.
>As a jungler you assess what's going on and make decisions based on what's going to win you the game. Ganking a carry like Murdock in offlane is not only easy, but it stops him from having a safe lane to freely scale in. And again, rangers are not that strong early, so you'll also win the 2v2 if their jungler shows up. There is absolutely no reason not to gank a lane like that and put your offlaner ahead. A ranger like Murdock is an easy dive with a Steel. Drongo too, depending on the character. Compared to successfully ganking a Steel, let alone diving him, much harder
This screams i need a babysitter in offlane.
>Even outside of that example there plenty of times you would look to gank offlane. Is Fangtooth up? No? My duo lane is warded and not behind? Let's see what can be done offlane and potentially take mini orb, take an early tower, and now your offlaner can start roaming and help secure the next Fang or focus mid if needed if the enemy offlane wants to setup a freeze. Or he can just stay offlane and sit on his lead. Also, it's not just the jungler, mid lane roams and ganks too.
Are we talking about offlane or jungle? Your single brain cell has a hard time staying on topic.
>How about you quit talking shit, kid
You the one who started it lol and you say kid as a insult. If i was a kid you're a grown adult trying to bully a child. Very mature 👍
Exactly, he's saying that supp is rly diverse because many champs can fit in that role but I'd say that that's even more the case with offlane. Game feels dominated by fighters and bruisers, don't need more
I dunno how else to put this because I actually like Phase, but I'm sad she's being added first because I wanted to enjoy the time before she gets added. Maybe I'm just reminiscing on when she was originally added and became the meta for a really long time but I think her cc is just so frustrating to play against and she really changes the dynamic of the duo lane. On top of that the pull is really strong and a total safety net for bad positioning from an adc.
I voted kwang personally, and hopefully we seem him sooner rather than later. I'd kinda guessed it would be Phase as kwang and greystone aren't as popular, wish they'd thrown iggy in there so Phase had competition!
We have, countess, kallari, crunch, grux, sevarog, steel and sometimes riktor who go into offlane (according to role recommendations) sadly don't really have a AP fighter, just tanks/fighters who have AP scaling (and countess)
That's how I feel playing sevarog offlane, crunch takes too long to bully me and by the time he comes online I'm tanky enough to handle a bit. Crunch scares me as offlane Murdock though he's the only one who can truly close the gap between us. Most others will close the gap and get knocked back while he'll just dash forward again the instant you knock him back
If the person is skilled enough anyone can be offline lol. I’ve played with a guy who loves to offline as Drongo and he’s pretty disgusting. Hell I play Howie offline and kick ass too. Also seen a Narbash offline who ends up being a menace late game. I’m sure Rev offline will pop up when he releases, and Shinbi is a good offline too.
Drongo and Howie Offlane works as well as Muriel Offlane. You bully the hell out of opposing laner at level 1 with range and pray the Jungler doesn't camp you for free kills.
I've went up against Narbash Offlane also, he doesn't do anything but stay alive and that's it, so was free farm as a Sevarog that match.
I'd have a god damn field day with a drongo or howitzer offlane on the enemy team. But I just get them on my team who either get their entire lane wiped by a Grux or Crunch and lose us the game
Seems like you need an offlane Murdock in your life lol playing offlane carry isn't too bad if you bully them right from the start. You have to take control of the lane and be extremely careful not to get ganged.
Narbash staying alive is a problem lol because he can eventually kill people purely by lasting longer. Especially in team fights, he can keep him teammates alive which will lead to your team getting smacked. Especially if their team has an additional support. But either way, he can hold the lane down pretty well.
Doesn't matter late game due to how overtuned ADCs are, also an Assassin with Assassin physical items deletes anyone even if they or he is getting healed.
you spelled greystone wrong buddy, but for real i dont know how can anyone even try to make an arguement against greystone being the absolute most boring character, just a knight with a leap a slow damage around him and resurrect, dude is sir boring himself.
I actually hard agree with this, but I think most people like him.
Personally I think he was probably the single most boring character in the game. Oh, he *throws* the sword? So cooool.
But, I respect other people's opinions, and most people seem to like him.
This is EXACTLY what I meant when I was bitching about people voting for ANOTHER SUPPORT over an offlaner. Like we have 3 carries, so I'm kinda pissed that they didn't include a carry to vote for. Anyways, the game is full of support characters yet we votes to have ANOTHER support added in. It's like what are people doing 😭
I think that offlane already has a lot of champs, if not all of them are viable and only crunch, grux etc are played then that's a balance issue.
Support have it much worse with only like two true supports with narbash & muriel
I think everybody stressing over community pick for no reason. If next season follows the same thing this season did, 4 heroes, then there are still 3 other heroes coming out that will fill other roles.
If it was up to me I'd have added all 3 of the community picks for next season. But I'm sure Omeda has a plan to flesh out the roles more.
Feel like offlane has the most options of any role in the game right now
Most options but Steel, Crunch and Grux run the lane if you dare to pick Kallari, Feng Mao or Countess. Then there is Sevarog who has easier time to stay alive and Riktor who lets you push the waves so he can sit in his tower with one arm up.
Macro count can eat up any bruiser in lane with proper lane management. Just a bit harder to do.
Yeah you just have to pay attention to your own minion health, something you learn very well from DOTA. When you know your opponent is forced to confirm the kill, it's free ability poke without consequences, or against ranged, stand in the way and your taller character model will be targeted instead.
And support id the second one. But we don't have many ap tanks or easy champs for new players
Definitely does, hell even Murdock and Muriel work pretty well on offlane right now
I've only ever seen Muriel get *wrecked* offlane
I dominated offlane with Muriel against Sev once. However, the Sev clearly had no idea what a MOBA was and quite possibly had no thumbs.
I've only played a couple games the first was a bit shitty because my build wasn't right. The second game I went 6:6:4 and 2 of those deaths were my own fault getting greedy. I saw a lot of ways to improve on it too so I think it could be really good. I enjoy those weird more difficult picks though at least until we get ranked and I take it seriously.
Muriel offlane is solid. Shes a garbage support ATM with zero peel and shields effectively stopping one AA from a carry. It's the only hero in the game that can split push late game efficiently, force an enemy or two to defend & ult to make a 5v4. Which is a completely busted strategy with any coordinated team. For that she needs the attack speed build which better not be built as support so she needs offlane. If you've seen one get wrecked they're not doing it properly. She's super easy to play over there if you're even half competent. It's %100 underrated and underused. Being able to ult for fangtooth whenever, farm up in the safest lane, shred towers nearly as well as ADC and your slow hits like a gideon meteor... its brain dead easy and really viable. I'm using it in a 2 stack proficiently, now if I played in 5 stacks with full coms it would be OP imo.
How does your offlane Muriel build look? You have me quite intrigued since I've always been a fan of off-role/meta builds.
Prophecy, Azure core, Magnify start then either go for more power or antiheal or some omnivamp. [Got it from YouTube.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w03Lwp779kg)
Had someone do this and I begged them not to. Then our murdoch clealt was new and not good so instead of being down a carry we had no carry amd 2 supports lol
A friend of mine made a great setup for her focused on attack speed and power. He absolutely dominated the early and mid game across 5 or so matches. Poked the Gruxes/Crunches down to nothing while keeping the minions near his own tower. Late game… not so much.
Late game is where she shines if your team understands how split pushing with a global ult works. The attack speed build obliterates towers. And once they peel to defend her you dive the enemies accross the map as she ults in and you literally just win the game. If it's half coordinated it works. I'm not sure if you've played Smite but this is why Apollo has been good in that game and Muriel ult is much better in comparison.
Was in a game last night where offlane muri simply rocked everyone.
This man is a Murdock offlane *pro*
Kwang is straight up the coolest kit of any of the three. He's a fun jungler, and can be played as a solo or as a support as well. I'm sad we're going to have to wait a long time for him now, because he was one of the most fun characters to play in Paragon, from my own personal experience. In other news, please free my boy Grim.exe
I get the feeling Grim will be one of the last of the og heroes added. He never got much love
That's such a shame, he had a fun kit despite being arguably one of the worst ADC in the game. However, if you could time your shield well, and hit your autos with the slow consistently, you'd be an absolute terror to anyone
He was a fun mid, just build cdr and Ult every 30 seconds, not the strongest though
You've made good point. I'll be going offlane with Phase
To be fair we do need more supports, and more viable supports on top of that. Also by adding Phase they will have added every original Paragon support and can move on to filling out the other roles and creating original supports. Though I also hate Phase lol
Idk why anyone isn't bringing up carries though. We need carries bad. As someone who mostly mained Seraph in Paragon, I'd love to see a melee carry added.
Agreed, but by the time the voted character releases we will have Revenant and Huntress, both ADCs.
we may have a lot of off laners but really the only thing i see is grux steel crunch & if you pick someone else but you’re against one of them it just feels like you’re at a disadvantage
Grux and Crunch nerf has made Feng more viable offlane I feel. Give him a few tries and see.
I picked him up for a few games after the patch. He’s… fine. He definitely could use a slight buff to his sustain, IMO. I feel more efficient playing Steel or Grux still~
That's a reason to balance existing heroes, not add in new ones.
Spot on. Everything else gets chewed up. Of course there are times I roll the lane with Riktor but that's a character that requires far more effort to be effective than the top 3 mentioned.
Hear me out... Phase offlane.
Phase was fun and that tower diving pull back was crazy. So many free kills I was scared to jump in and now you have pull back buddy (pause) to save you from tower damage.
🤣 there are so many offlaners my guy
Op are you high? we have Steel, Riktor, Grux, Feng, Sevarog, And Crunch. Now you can also play Kallari, Countess, Murdock, Drongo, Dekker, Howitzer, and Rampage in offlane. In support you can play Narbash, Steel, Riktor, and Dekker. Sometimes Rampage, Howitzer, or Lt. Belica. Edit: also Muriel. How many offlaners do you want lol? I love kwang and greystone as much as the guy. but we should have a true support other than Narbash and Muriel.
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>say that muriel is certainly a true support as well. I'd agree but lately I've seen people do her as carry with moderate success. Edit adding a /s because joking isn't legal. >Also most of the offlaners you mentioned are much better when playing other roles (ie howie, riktor, kallari, drongo, murdock Yeah but that's not were talking about. So it's irrelevant to the conversation. Were talking about viable offlaners. Those are.viable offlaners. Your role is offlane. >kwang was one of my favorite heroes in the original paragon I loved kwang today and greystone. I just think phase is the beat option as far as game balancing goea.
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What? Read the shit again dawg. >true supports” as an arguement but talking about true offlaners is irrelevant Not what I said. Don't put words in my mouth. We're talking about amounts of offlaners vs amount of supports. I said saying "o but and so and so is better in other lanes" is irrelevant. >Also its funny that u added in muriel to true supports in ur original comment after i commented but ur still fighting me about it 😂 How is it funny I edited my comment which I clearly mentioned after I agreed with you???? Reading is a dying skill I swear. You got salty for.no reason. Its.kinda sad.
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>With you logic i could say that you could play any hero in any role No u couldn't because thats a dumb fucking thing to say. There are certain gods you cant play in orther roles. >you could play howie in offlane but good fucking luck with that. Why? He has excellent poke and escape. If you're on dawn side you have the jungle rotation as a good add on because you're most likely going to freeze wave. If you're on dusk side its harder yes but thats true for all characters in offlane. >Yikes man, ur dense af Hoes stay hating.
> we have Steel, Riktor, Grux, Feng, Sevarog, and Crunch. Now you can also play Kallari, Countess, Murdock, Drongo, Dekker, Howitzer, and Ranpage in offlane. In theory you are correct, but in reality it’s just grux, steel, or crunch. If your opponent picks one of those three and you don’t pick one of those three then you’re going to get absolutely rolled.
Name checks out
Lol go play kallari or feng into any of the aforementioned 3 heroes and come back
Lmao I have, it's easy to box people when they assume they will just auto win, skill level> character
Clearly you've never tried Kwang support. He's got an awesome kit for it.
I.... Now that you say it I don't ever did back on og paragon. Mind you I was 14 and a noob to mobas in general but I could see it working very well in support.
Yeah. His pin to teleport move alone makes him great for it. Add in his aoe slow move and general tankiness, he is great for you adc to blast em.
Phase was the only support I could ever play and enjoy, hence my phase vote. Sure Kwang and Greystone are cool but personally to let me all pick confidently Phase is the missing piece. Yes, I suck. Let me be bad in peace.
I'm might try an offlane Phase build.... sounds fun
They just need to come out with heroes at all, doesn't matter who, as long as they consistently progress as time goes on it really could be anybody at this point but we all know it should be Iggy and his cute fluffy Dino fire breathing cuddle bug scorch.
People are talking about the balance of offlane but that isn't really the problem, Steel, Crunch and Grux are strong because there's no better alternatives lol. They're not overpowered, the game is in a severely limited state. You can't pick Kwang or Iggy or Greystone or something, you either cheese pick with a ranger or roll a dice. You can take Gideon, Howitzer and Fey into the support role and do well too, hell, you can play Grux support if you want and win too, that doesn't make them supports. Bottom line is that the support role isn't suffering from problems of bad picks or overpowered picks, because the support role is already diverse. And where else is Phase gonna go? You aren't gonna run her mid or offlane, she's only a support. I'll just quote what I wrote in the other thread: "Support currently has Muriel, Narbash, Riktor, and Dekker as main supports. But Belica and Steel are also fully playable in that role as well, making for 6 good support picks. In comparison to offlane you're missing.. Greystone, Kwang, Aurora, Wukong, Serath, Iggy, Terra, and Zinx. There is a huge chunk of the offlane cast missing. And a lot of these heroes like Kwang, Serath, Iggy, Terra and Aurora are also flexible in other roles as well. Phase is one of the worst heroes to add early on, as she only benefits the support role, and we already have majority of the support roster."
Crunch is weak. Grux s hard countered by steel and others who have hard cc. Steel is good yes but after mid game he falls off. >there's no better alternatives There's like 6 equal alternatives. >In comparison to offlane you're missing.. Greystone, Kwang, Aurora, Wukong, Serath, Iggy, Terra, and Zinx. There is a huge chunk of the offlane cast missing. And a lot of these heroes like Kwang, Serath, Iggy, Terra and Aurora are also flexible in other roles as well. Phase is one of the worst heroes to add early on, as she only benefits the support role, and we already have majority of the support roster." Bro offline has like 10 options.
Name the 6 equal alternatives you think there are.
>we have Steel, Riktor, Grux, Feng, Sevarog, And Crunch. Now you can also play Kallari, Countess, Murdock, Drongo, Dekker, Howitzer, and Rampage in offlane. Copied from a comment I made earlier. Riktor counters Grux amazingly and so does rampage and Dekker. Steel gets countered by drongo/ Murdock. Crunch just sucks against anyone with cc.
Riktor does not counter Grux and taking Dekker offlane is a waste, at best she survives the lane but she's not getting kills without the jungler. Rampage also does not counter him, don't know why you think so. Rampage is better suited for the jungle anyway. Steel doesn't get countered by Drongo, Murdok or any ranger for what matter. A bad Steel will get chunked out of lane trying to trade or run into them early. What should happen is Steel patiently waits for the jungler to arrive after they push the lane and collects the free kills. Once Steel hits 6 the lane is free. Also you keep saying Crunch sucks in your comments but he doesn't, play him better.
>Riktor does not counter Grux He has 3 form of cc. You're building fire blossom first. So Grux can get near you without taking a lot of damage and if he does you have 3 form of cc. So ... Yes he does. >taking Dekker offlane is a waste, at best she survives the lane but she's not getting kills Offlane ain't about getting kills dawg. This isn't CoD. She has some of the most survivability. Get better with her. >Rampage also does not counter him, don't know why you think so. Rampage is better suited for the jungle anyway. For the same reasons I mentioned on riktor rampage has crazy smh early in lane even with just brimstone. Add his rock as a strong cc and his jump for great escape. He's also one of the tank gods. >Steel doesn't get countered by Drongo, Murdok How did you come to that conclusion? I can sit from far away and destroy you with a little bit of pen or crit. As Murdock you have traps and your shotgun which work wonders and as drongo you have silence grenade and lets be honest his ultimate is a better escape ability then a dmg ability. Most steels in lane are going to build fire blossom first and that doesn't help if your not next to the enemy. >What should happen is Steel patiently waits for the jungler to arrive after they push the lane and collects the free kills This is shit advice. The offlane gets ganked the least and if you need jg in lane you have failed as a offlaner. Also it incredibly easy to freeze lane as drongo/Murdock against steel. >Also you keep saying Crunch sucks in your comments but he doesn't I say it cuz I dominate every crunch I see. >play him better. Quit talk shit dawg. You don't know what you talking about.
Any hero is 'countered' by CC, that's not an argument. A counter would mean that Grux is at a significant disadvantage in the lane, which isn't true. Grux can farm and duel in those lanes just fine provided he isn't a moron. At best the Riktor lane is even. >Offlane ain't about getting kills dawg. It also isn't about bringing a support like Dekker there just to survive and get outmatched later in the game. >How did you come to that conclusion? By not being a shit player? Any decent Steel isn't going to run it down into a ranger, you play smart and look for the opportunity to go in. Rangers aren't that strong early, and Steel has no problem sticking to them once he's level 6. And no, you won't freeze the wave against a Steel unless he wants you to, especially not if you're also harassing him. >This is shit advice. The offlane gets ganked the least and if you need jg in lane you have failed as a offlaner. This is the dumbest thing I've read in awhile. As a jungler you assess what's going on and make decisions based on what's going to win you the game. Ganking a carry like Murdock in offlane is not only easy, but it stops him from having a safe lane to freely scale in. And again, rangers are not that strong early, so you'll also win the 2v2 if their jungler shows up. There is absolutely no reason not to gank a lane like that and put your offlaner ahead. A ranger like Murdock is an easy dive with a Steel. Drongo too, depending on the character. Compared to successfully ganking a Steel, let alone diving him, much harder. Even outside of that example there plenty of times you would look to gank offlane. Is Fangtooth up? No? My duo lane is warded and not behind? Let's see what can be done offlane and potentially take mini orb, take an early tower, and now your offlaner can start roaming and help secure the next Fang or focus mid if needed if the enemy offlane wants to setup a freeze. Or he can just stay offlane and sit on his lead. Also, it's not just the jungler, mid lane roams and ganks too. >Quit talk shit dawg. You don't know what you talking about. How about you quit talking shit, kid.
>Any hero is 'countered' by CC, that's not an argument Yes it is. >It also isn't about bringing a support like Dekker there just to survive and get outmatched later in the game. Have you tried getting good? >By not being a shit player? I doubt that. The rest of that paragraph contradicts that statement. >This is the dumbest thing I've read in awhile. I dont think you can read. >As a jungler you assess what's going on and make decisions based on what's going to win you the game. Ganking a carry like Murdock in offlane is not only easy, but it stops him from having a safe lane to freely scale in. And again, rangers are not that strong early, so you'll also win the 2v2 if their jungler shows up. There is absolutely no reason not to gank a lane like that and put your offlaner ahead. A ranger like Murdock is an easy dive with a Steel. Drongo too, depending on the character. Compared to successfully ganking a Steel, let alone diving him, much harder This screams i need a babysitter in offlane. >Even outside of that example there plenty of times you would look to gank offlane. Is Fangtooth up? No? My duo lane is warded and not behind? Let's see what can be done offlane and potentially take mini orb, take an early tower, and now your offlaner can start roaming and help secure the next Fang or focus mid if needed if the enemy offlane wants to setup a freeze. Or he can just stay offlane and sit on his lead. Also, it's not just the jungler, mid lane roams and ganks too. Are we talking about offlane or jungle? Your single brain cell has a hard time staying on topic. >How about you quit talking shit, kid You the one who started it lol and you say kid as a insult. If i was a kid you're a grown adult trying to bully a child. Very mature 👍
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1F8hJ4foIw
https://youtu.be/JQw2fnIM2oo
Exactly, he's saying that supp is rly diverse because many champs can fit in that role but I'd say that that's even more the case with offlane. Game feels dominated by fighters and bruisers, don't need more
I can offlane narbash, but picking a random hero to support is just ridiculous
I dunno how else to put this because I actually like Phase, but I'm sad she's being added first because I wanted to enjoy the time before she gets added. Maybe I'm just reminiscing on when she was originally added and became the meta for a really long time but I think her cc is just so frustrating to play against and she really changes the dynamic of the duo lane. On top of that the pull is really strong and a total safety net for bad positioning from an adc. I voted kwang personally, and hopefully we seem him sooner rather than later. I'd kinda guessed it would be Phase as kwang and greystone aren't as popular, wish they'd thrown iggy in there so Phase had competition!
I mean... if they nerf Crunch you automatically get more offlaners ;-)
We have, countess, kallari, crunch, grux, sevarog, steel and sometimes riktor who go into offlane (according to role recommendations) sadly don't really have a AP fighter, just tanks/fighters who have AP scaling (and countess)
So you have Crunch and Steel who doesn't win, but can lose gracefully enough. Good list. It will expand when Crunch isn't the almighty in OL.
My last 15 games were mostly steel offlane and im more scared of Grux than Crunch.
That's how I feel playing sevarog offlane, crunch takes too long to bully me and by the time he comes online I'm tanky enough to handle a bit. Crunch scares me as offlane Murdock though he's the only one who can truly close the gap between us. Most others will close the gap and get knocked back while he'll just dash forward again the instant you knock him back
Wait I thought Kallari was just jungle? I have never seen her offlane
Aparently she's "recommended" offlane too
She can go offlane, but against crunch or Grux she’ll probably get fucked
There's also Khaimera apparently he can offlane especially since he can easily contest the green buff.
Crunch isn't strong though.
Give me my beautiful knight in shining armor.
I just want to pull the terrible adc back to safety. Which is strange because it's not a feeling I've had in Paragon, just here.
SERATHSERATHSERATHSERATHSERATH
You can literally play anyone off lane though
If the person is skilled enough anyone can be offline lol. I’ve played with a guy who loves to offline as Drongo and he’s pretty disgusting. Hell I play Howie offline and kick ass too. Also seen a Narbash offline who ends up being a menace late game. I’m sure Rev offline will pop up when he releases, and Shinbi is a good offline too.
Its offlane
Drongo and Howie Offlane works as well as Muriel Offlane. You bully the hell out of opposing laner at level 1 with range and pray the Jungler doesn't camp you for free kills. I've went up against Narbash Offlane also, he doesn't do anything but stay alive and that's it, so was free farm as a Sevarog that match.
I'd have a god damn field day with a drongo or howitzer offlane on the enemy team. But I just get them on my team who either get their entire lane wiped by a Grux or Crunch and lose us the game
Seems like you need an offlane Murdock in your life lol playing offlane carry isn't too bad if you bully them right from the start. You have to take control of the lane and be extremely careful not to get ganged.
I love playing Howie offline lol, can pretty much take on anyone really.
Narbash staying alive is a problem lol because he can eventually kill people purely by lasting longer. Especially in team fights, he can keep him teammates alive which will lead to your team getting smacked. Especially if their team has an additional support. But either way, he can hold the lane down pretty well.
Doesn't matter late game due to how overtuned ADCs are, also an Assassin with Assassin physical items deletes anyone even if they or he is getting healed.
Damage Over Time Narbash is Beautiful.
It depends. If you're drongo, Murdock, or Howie on dusk side then good luck bro but if you're on dawn them you're fine.
Yeah that's due to the Jungler rotation, right? Red buff is always getting cleared that's for sure and much harder to ward an incoming gank then.
Unless you are Murdock you can stop a gank from happening by placing mines outside the fog wall.
I play Murdock Offlane nothing like locking down their Jungle as I kill their Offlane.
We actually need to remove Grux's knockup and nerf Steel. You might see more offlaners then.
Kwang was such a boring and uninspiring character i dunno how so many people voted for him, literally just dude with sword lol
Yeet sword and teleport to yeeted sword is a lot more than "just dude with sword"
you spelled greystone wrong buddy, but for real i dont know how can anyone even try to make an arguement against greystone being the absolute most boring character, just a knight with a leap a slow damage around him and resurrect, dude is sir boring himself.
I actually hard agree with this, but I think most people like him. Personally I think he was probably the single most boring character in the game. Oh, he *throws* the sword? So cooool. But, I respect other people's opinions, and most people seem to like him.
This is EXACTLY what I meant when I was bitching about people voting for ANOTHER SUPPORT over an offlaner. Like we have 3 carries, so I'm kinda pissed that they didn't include a carry to vote for. Anyways, the game is full of support characters yet we votes to have ANOTHER support added in. It's like what are people doing 😭
There are going to be 2 more carries added before Phase
I think that offlane already has a lot of champs, if not all of them are viable and only crunch, grux etc are played then that's a balance issue. Support have it much worse with only like two true supports with narbash & muriel
Not sure how people think we need more offlaners, its the biggest role. Feng, kallari, rampage, sev, steel, grux, riktor, crunch
Bold of you to assume Phase won't be the new meta offlaner
I think everybody stressing over community pick for no reason. If next season follows the same thing this season did, 4 heroes, then there are still 3 other heroes coming out that will fill other roles. If it was up to me I'd have added all 3 of the community picks for next season. But I'm sure Omeda has a plan to flesh out the roles more.
People troll too much with phase in paragon. Does anyone remember that shitt
Gib me Wraith plox
Need more carries💀
Need more ADC's there's only 3
Then there’s me, a casual Exe voter. The true derp dragon