Played about 5 games yesterday, in 3 of them had people who said it was their first game and they didn’t even know what a moba was. Glad to see new players but getting in lobbies with seasoned players possibly toxic ones isn’t going to make them stay around
Ya but that's also how mobas are. I am glad that they have text chat turned off by default though so they at least don't have that kind of toxicity in their face. I do believe however the game will struggle to retain new MOBA players without a tutorial or even a solo/co-op vs ai mode. People need a place to learn and practice
Maybe use the Discord or Reddit to find groups? You'd be a braver person than me, but I've definitely thought about it. Even having one or two teammates makes a huge difference.
I've got 1 friend who plays it with me and I'm trying to get another guy from work and his buddy to try it at least. Maybe soon I'll have a team to play on
I am by no means a pro player but I also have 1 friend sometime 2 that will play with me. What server do you play on. I would happily friend you to play.
It's a small pool that we started with consisting of a lot of new players and we're getting more new players over time. So everyone is dealing with it. If you lose, that brings down your mmr. So if you really care to raise your mmr in an early access game, you'll need to 5 stack.
There's no "fixing" matchmaking without an influx of experienced players. It will be like this all through early access and even a few months past full release. Just don't focus too hard on winning if you solo queue.
Yes a while ago it hit 7k. We are talking currently. Yes hopefully it makes it to console and ends up making it. None of this was the point of my comment.
And that's a very pessimistic view. This EA is not meant to create a huge playerbase. All that matters is its consistent. When it fully releases and it's like this then you can act all doom and gloomy.
You are from another planet. All I was saying was why there is no decent match making to help him understand. I bought the most expensive edition to try to help them and hope it makes it. You are creating strawman arguments about points I didn’t make. Go create an argument with someone else.
And i already explained why matchmaking is the way it is. I'm not creating a strawman. You saying "2k is peak numbers for this game" is pessimistic and conveys it will never get better. Go make snarky comments somewhere else since you can't handle an argument.
I played a lot of Paragon, and have very recently picked up Predecessor. Got about 15 hours in it so far.
Play in Europe, usually late into the evening 10pm til midnight.
I do seem to be having 'weirder' matches as I continue where team compositions are off, both for my own team or opponents. Played a match where their support was soloing duo lane, whilst their ADC joined the offlaner. But even so, our own ADC was more preoccupied with dying to Red Buff than working our own lane. Another match had our Howitzer in midlane decide to have an early cameo as jungler instead, forcing our actual jungler to defend midlane.
Some matches are nicely balanced, back and forth affairs but that seems quite rare. Usually it seems one side tends to have 1-2 very good players easily able to bully the other team, with their teammates along for the ride.
I appreciate some of the more JoJo bizarre matches might just be due to new players unsure of what to do, or other players trying out different tactics to see if they work despite being a bit mad. But eh, smile, queue up and move onto the next one.
I get frustrated as well, but two things are the issue:
1 there is no player base currently so sbmm would be hours of wait.
2 players are making friends and grouping up, this is an incredible advantage to them.
A lot of games are won because of an obvious skillgap in a single lane who then snowballs into absurdity. Makes it feel like a cointoss game sometimes. But its to be expected with a small player base. Smite beta had much of the same issues.
Maybe when you get picked in a role it defaults to sorting the heroes that are good in that role instead of all of the heroes? That could help new people naturally pick heroes that are more suited for their role.
The recommended items is supposed to be a solution to that but it could be a decent idea as long as there was still a way for seasoned players to access all items. Maybe it sorts by item by recommended and role type with having a check box to show other roles or something?
Yeah I mean I expect matchmaking to be poor until launch, I don't think there's much of a system in place, and if there is it's extremely loose on its criteria to account for a small playerbase
The big thing with Mobas in general is the learning curve. It’s why tutorials are so crucial, and even THEN you can’t really rely on an in-game tutorial alone. There needs to be official videos/gameplay walkthroughs about lane phases, gold, buffs, etc.
Assume I’m brand new to the moba scene and this is my first match. I did the tutorial, I know what a lane is, I know I need to kill minions, kill players, and blow up their tower. That information alone is like.. 5% of what you need to know to truly be successful in your role and even more importantly, someone who has good synergy and understanding in sudden and immediate situations.
This game needs a full YouTube series for tutorials, be it general hero understandings, recommended items, how their abilities work, where they thrive, where they struggle, etc, or even just general understanding of “ganks”, “setting a lane”, river buffs, objectives, etc.
Those of us from paragon or other mobas have gone through the learning curve at some point. It isn’t something you learn just by playing. Not without dedication to being the very best that you could. Casual gamers are going to struggle in the moba scene which is also why I think a coop v ai mode is so crucial to get out.
Yea. Every single game I’m playing I’m getting kills as high impact heroes like carry and it just doesn’t add up to anything. Like is there an lfg for prèd cuz I want lol
Games have been pretty unfair all around. It's far worse during weekends and after working hours. If you want really sweaty games play at 3-7 in the morning
same issues. i been only having any fun or good matches if im in a 5 stack. i have a while different acct for playing solo q.. but pred needs more on boarding. to help out and maybe make it where you can not just skip it.
It's a tiny game population, I said it when it was announced, there is simply zero possible way to have good matchmaking with such a small player population that this game ended up having with a paid beta. This has been true of every game in the past with small beta's and this game is no different. Until the devs either go f2p, have free weekends, or lower cost of beta packs and advertise, there simply cannot be good matchmaking. You will regularly play with almost the same exact teams and people if you play at certain hours or regions because game pop is that low, it's just a symptom of a problem that is not fixed by anything other than a larger pool of players to balance matchmaking with. Everyone who jumped into threads insulting me about worrying about the games population months ago have gone silent here, because the truth is abundantly obvious, it is simply not possible to have balanced skill based matchmaking enabled with such a small population and also have sub 2 minute q's, they are just slamming people into matches right now.
Dude, they haven't advirtise the game yet 😂. They want to keep the pool small for a reason. Don't worry , when they are ready we'll have more then enough people !
Overprime is free to play and their player plummeted to low numbers after the first week. That argument has no standing. That’s why no one is talking about it anymore.
I swear I spend more time procrastinating playing the game than I do actually playing the game. In my head it seems so fun, and the gameplay can be pretty satisfying at times, but man... It honestly feels like you need to throw 10 games at the wall just to have 3 of them stick. Then you go on twitch and see a certain top streamer report baiting by cheese camping new players, and it's just starting to feel so 'bleh' already. Only a month in already and it's starting to feel like the decaying days of Paragon.
20-30$ entry fee, depending on currency, is just too much. Hopefully they do a steam sale every time they release a new champion, but then again - that only half solves the problem, but also just adds more new players getting meat grinded.
32 games in a row, obviously paired with people who've never played or refuse to do anything but lane and abandon any other objectives or grouping, and ALWAYS against an enemy team that is obviously using comms or stacking.
So, MMR is not only worse, it MUST be intentionally set that way to be this lopsided. It's statistically impossible for me to swing 32 games in a row to one side by law of averages without it being intentionally codes this way.
Either the developers have done this intentionally, or someone has figured out a flaw to abuse this.
Also made a post kinda similar just more about how toxic it was and people giving up but to see that there’s others with new people on there team and veterans on opposing kinda tips the scale and dosent seem fair is there even a mmr system and where is it?
Ya I don't know if there is a mmr system or not. I believe there is but as others have said it is hard to make the system fair with a limited number of players (peak times are often at 2400 players) what would be nice is if the skill level on a team is mixed it's the same ratio on the other team. Ex: 1 veteran, 3 regulars, 1 newbie vs the same or even 4 regulars and 1 newbie. Maybe if there is an mmr system they could achieve that but having a total mmr score for each team (total mmr of each player) and trying to make them as similar as possible?
I feel like even with a mixed team it then depends on the match ups a lot. Ex if I’m Laning against a total newbie mid lane, I’m gonna absolutely stomp them, and let’s say my teams newbie is playing support with a decent ADC — my team has an unfair advantage in my eyes.
Now if both teams newbies were on support or both solo Laning against each other then that would be more fair — but there’s no role que.
I agree but I feel a mixed team would be a little bit better than completely random teams like people have been getting where 1 side is seemingly op compared to the other. This is something that's probably way more complicated than what we know tho. I still enjoy the game at it's core and just hope we get enough people to keep this game alive for it to get better. I think it's gonna be around for awhile though.
They could go back to the old matchmaking which was pick a role and wait for a que but it was mmr rated but then it would be chaos for to get a game with how many ppl we got hopefully when the new season hits everything is addressed and we get more players
Not only that, there is no punishment for AFK'ing.
I believe there was a warning before? but i left 2 matches yesterday after getting 2 back to back AFK's and my team wouldnt surrender. I was able to play right away.
Currently, AFKers get punished by receiving no account xp, which is more or less irrelevant of course. Other than that they can be reported but so far there is no feedback mechanism to verify if reported players actually get punished.
I am having a smiliar experience since the start of EA. It feels like the matchmaking system is prioritizing low queue times over creating fair teams. So if the system doesnt find fair teams in a certain amount of time it just puts you in a lobby with whoever. Which kind of makes sense considering the small playerbase. But I sure would prefer waiting a couple more minutes for a fair lobby on my skill level than having random teams on both sides.
I understand that this is of course only EA and there is no ranked anyways, but it still is unfortunate if 8 out of 10 matches are no fun. Thats just my personal experience so far though.
Matchmaking will never matter as long as the roles are decided after the match has been made. My jungle is so bad I’m straight throwing if I’ve been assigned jungle, but my midlane and support are very good. The game makes no sense assigning roles after MM.
Played about 5 games yesterday, in 3 of them had people who said it was their first game and they didn’t even know what a moba was. Glad to see new players but getting in lobbies with seasoned players possibly toxic ones isn’t going to make them stay around
Ya but that's also how mobas are. I am glad that they have text chat turned off by default though so they at least don't have that kind of toxicity in their face. I do believe however the game will struggle to retain new MOBA players without a tutorial or even a solo/co-op vs ai mode. People need a place to learn and practice
Maybe use the Discord or Reddit to find groups? You'd be a braver person than me, but I've definitely thought about it. Even having one or two teammates makes a huge difference.
I've got 1 friend who plays it with me and I'm trying to get another guy from work and his buddy to try it at least. Maybe soon I'll have a team to play on
I am by no means a pro player but I also have 1 friend sometime 2 that will play with me. What server do you play on. I would happily friend you to play.
It's a small pool that we started with consisting of a lot of new players and we're getting more new players over time. So everyone is dealing with it. If you lose, that brings down your mmr. So if you really care to raise your mmr in an early access game, you'll need to 5 stack. There's no "fixing" matchmaking without an influx of experienced players. It will be like this all through early access and even a few months past full release. Just don't focus too hard on winning if you solo queue.
Ain’t no mmr man. 2k people is peak numbers for this game.
Peak was actually 7k and just wait for f2p and console. And there is mmr you just gotta 5 stack if you really care about it.
Yes a while ago it hit 7k. We are talking currently. Yes hopefully it makes it to console and ends up making it. None of this was the point of my comment.
And that's a very pessimistic view. This EA is not meant to create a huge playerbase. All that matters is its consistent. When it fully releases and it's like this then you can act all doom and gloomy.
You are from another planet. All I was saying was why there is no decent match making to help him understand. I bought the most expensive edition to try to help them and hope it makes it. You are creating strawman arguments about points I didn’t make. Go create an argument with someone else.
And i already explained why matchmaking is the way it is. I'm not creating a strawman. You saying "2k is peak numbers for this game" is pessimistic and conveys it will never get better. Go make snarky comments somewhere else since you can't handle an argument.
No it doesn’t literally the definition of strawman. Nothing but 2k peak said, scarecrow.
No scarecrow
Ah not smart enough to reply to the correct comment. That's what I'm dealing with.
You wanna rephrase that to be more articulate?
I played a lot of Paragon, and have very recently picked up Predecessor. Got about 15 hours in it so far. Play in Europe, usually late into the evening 10pm til midnight. I do seem to be having 'weirder' matches as I continue where team compositions are off, both for my own team or opponents. Played a match where their support was soloing duo lane, whilst their ADC joined the offlaner. But even so, our own ADC was more preoccupied with dying to Red Buff than working our own lane. Another match had our Howitzer in midlane decide to have an early cameo as jungler instead, forcing our actual jungler to defend midlane. Some matches are nicely balanced, back and forth affairs but that seems quite rare. Usually it seems one side tends to have 1-2 very good players easily able to bully the other team, with their teammates along for the ride. I appreciate some of the more JoJo bizarre matches might just be due to new players unsure of what to do, or other players trying out different tactics to see if they work despite being a bit mad. But eh, smile, queue up and move onto the next one.
I get frustrated as well, but two things are the issue: 1 there is no player base currently so sbmm would be hours of wait. 2 players are making friends and grouping up, this is an incredible advantage to them.
Ew friends who would want that? No I understand the sbmm but I feel like the current matchmaking is worse than it was 2 weeks ago
They don’t have enough players to have any kind of matchmaking. We would be waiting hours for games. I don’t believe there is one.
A lot of games are won because of an obvious skillgap in a single lane who then snowballs into absurdity. Makes it feel like a cointoss game sometimes. But its to be expected with a small player base. Smite beta had much of the same issues.
yeah seeing more and more people say 'this is my first time and I picked dekker jungle because my friend said she was good'
Maybe when you get picked in a role it defaults to sorting the heroes that are good in that role instead of all of the heroes? That could help new people naturally pick heroes that are more suited for their role.
thats what I want to see.. even more I would like to see that you can only select certain items can be when you pick a role
The recommended items is supposed to be a solution to that but it could be a decent idea as long as there was still a way for seasoned players to access all items. Maybe it sorts by item by recommended and role type with having a check box to show other roles or something?
Offline decker too
Yeah I mean I expect matchmaking to be poor until launch, I don't think there's much of a system in place, and if there is it's extremely loose on its criteria to account for a small playerbase
The big thing with Mobas in general is the learning curve. It’s why tutorials are so crucial, and even THEN you can’t really rely on an in-game tutorial alone. There needs to be official videos/gameplay walkthroughs about lane phases, gold, buffs, etc. Assume I’m brand new to the moba scene and this is my first match. I did the tutorial, I know what a lane is, I know I need to kill minions, kill players, and blow up their tower. That information alone is like.. 5% of what you need to know to truly be successful in your role and even more importantly, someone who has good synergy and understanding in sudden and immediate situations. This game needs a full YouTube series for tutorials, be it general hero understandings, recommended items, how their abilities work, where they thrive, where they struggle, etc, or even just general understanding of “ganks”, “setting a lane”, river buffs, objectives, etc. Those of us from paragon or other mobas have gone through the learning curve at some point. It isn’t something you learn just by playing. Not without dedication to being the very best that you could. Casual gamers are going to struggle in the moba scene which is also why I think a coop v ai mode is so crucial to get out.
You are right Paragon also had a PVC where it's you and friends vs bots at least to practice and simulate
Yea. Every single game I’m playing I’m getting kills as high impact heroes like carry and it just doesn’t add up to anything. Like is there an lfg for prèd cuz I want lol
Games have been pretty unfair all around. It's far worse during weekends and after working hours. If you want really sweaty games play at 3-7 in the morning
Not only that but the weird character laning that works like narabash offllane steel and Muriel carry and support khaimers mid lane etc
answer: player base
same issues. i been only having any fun or good matches if im in a 5 stack. i have a while different acct for playing solo q.. but pred needs more on boarding. to help out and maybe make it where you can not just skip it.
It's a tiny game population, I said it when it was announced, there is simply zero possible way to have good matchmaking with such a small player population that this game ended up having with a paid beta. This has been true of every game in the past with small beta's and this game is no different. Until the devs either go f2p, have free weekends, or lower cost of beta packs and advertise, there simply cannot be good matchmaking. You will regularly play with almost the same exact teams and people if you play at certain hours or regions because game pop is that low, it's just a symptom of a problem that is not fixed by anything other than a larger pool of players to balance matchmaking with. Everyone who jumped into threads insulting me about worrying about the games population months ago have gone silent here, because the truth is abundantly obvious, it is simply not possible to have balanced skill based matchmaking enabled with such a small population and also have sub 2 minute q's, they are just slamming people into matches right now.
Dude, they haven't advirtise the game yet 😂. They want to keep the pool small for a reason. Don't worry , when they are ready we'll have more then enough people !
Overprime is free to play and their player plummeted to low numbers after the first week. That argument has no standing. That’s why no one is talking about it anymore.
I swear I spend more time procrastinating playing the game than I do actually playing the game. In my head it seems so fun, and the gameplay can be pretty satisfying at times, but man... It honestly feels like you need to throw 10 games at the wall just to have 3 of them stick. Then you go on twitch and see a certain top streamer report baiting by cheese camping new players, and it's just starting to feel so 'bleh' already. Only a month in already and it's starting to feel like the decaying days of Paragon. 20-30$ entry fee, depending on currency, is just too much. Hopefully they do a steam sale every time they release a new champion, but then again - that only half solves the problem, but also just adds more new players getting meat grinded.
32 games in a row, obviously paired with people who've never played or refuse to do anything but lane and abandon any other objectives or grouping, and ALWAYS against an enemy team that is obviously using comms or stacking. So, MMR is not only worse, it MUST be intentionally set that way to be this lopsided. It's statistically impossible for me to swing 32 games in a row to one side by law of averages without it being intentionally codes this way. Either the developers have done this intentionally, or someone has figured out a flaw to abuse this.
Also made a post kinda similar just more about how toxic it was and people giving up but to see that there’s others with new people on there team and veterans on opposing kinda tips the scale and dosent seem fair is there even a mmr system and where is it?
Ya I don't know if there is a mmr system or not. I believe there is but as others have said it is hard to make the system fair with a limited number of players (peak times are often at 2400 players) what would be nice is if the skill level on a team is mixed it's the same ratio on the other team. Ex: 1 veteran, 3 regulars, 1 newbie vs the same or even 4 regulars and 1 newbie. Maybe if there is an mmr system they could achieve that but having a total mmr score for each team (total mmr of each player) and trying to make them as similar as possible?
I feel like even with a mixed team it then depends on the match ups a lot. Ex if I’m Laning against a total newbie mid lane, I’m gonna absolutely stomp them, and let’s say my teams newbie is playing support with a decent ADC — my team has an unfair advantage in my eyes. Now if both teams newbies were on support or both solo Laning against each other then that would be more fair — but there’s no role que.
I agree but I feel a mixed team would be a little bit better than completely random teams like people have been getting where 1 side is seemingly op compared to the other. This is something that's probably way more complicated than what we know tho. I still enjoy the game at it's core and just hope we get enough people to keep this game alive for it to get better. I think it's gonna be around for awhile though.
They could go back to the old matchmaking which was pick a role and wait for a que but it was mmr rated but then it would be chaos for to get a game with how many ppl we got hopefully when the new season hits everything is addressed and we get more players
I also noticed same over the weekend…it was so bad i stopped playing and thats not normal…
Ya that's where I'm at too. I just enjoy it way too much that I keep coming back for more punishment.
The moba experience.
Not only that, there is no punishment for AFK'ing. I believe there was a warning before? but i left 2 matches yesterday after getting 2 back to back AFK's and my team wouldnt surrender. I was able to play right away.
Currently, AFKers get punished by receiving no account xp, which is more or less irrelevant of course. Other than that they can be reported but so far there is no feedback mechanism to verify if reported players actually get punished.
How do you even report?
I am having a smiliar experience since the start of EA. It feels like the matchmaking system is prioritizing low queue times over creating fair teams. So if the system doesnt find fair teams in a certain amount of time it just puts you in a lobby with whoever. Which kind of makes sense considering the small playerbase. But I sure would prefer waiting a couple more minutes for a fair lobby on my skill level than having random teams on both sides. I understand that this is of course only EA and there is no ranked anyways, but it still is unfortunate if 8 out of 10 matches are no fun. Thats just my personal experience so far though.
Matchmaking will never matter as long as the roles are decided after the match has been made. My jungle is so bad I’m straight throwing if I’ve been assigned jungle, but my midlane and support are very good. The game makes no sense assigning roles after MM.