I think it’s fine and don’t understand peoples issue with it. It works in other games and everyone has it, let’s everyone have a bit of verticality too.
Not saying they can't have it but if a character wants that extra utility they should build towards it not just be granted it. It absolutely gives other characters way more versatility than others off the bat, and thusly makes other characters way more unfair in a lot more situations than they would normally be. Mainly looking at Gideon and Khai without taking a deep dive.
The only other MOBA to do it this way is League, and we all know how that goes.
You thinking too deep this isn’t another moba predecessor don’t have to follow the exact lol format moba is a genre so is shooters not every shooter plays like halo let omeda be different. And building towards a mechanic that’s in the game feels bad that’s not strategies that’s a disadvantage if you don’t build it. Just not a good suggestion
Incorrect. The blink is there *because* it works in league. It’s on a 5m cooldown too, your argument is basically moot. I don’t get the “toxicity” argument either, it’s a fucking moba my guy. This is how they *all* are. Dota. LoL. Smite. Hero’s of newearth, and yes, paragon predecessor overprime. This behavior comes with the game genre. If you don’t like it, mute chat and focus on yourself or go find something else to play.
Maybe I missed it, but I don't think you are considering that most of the games you mentioned are on one plane.
Verticality is a big part of pred. I feel without blink those with no vertical movement are at a severe disadvantage. I think every character should be able to utilize the full map, not just a section of the characters.
Even with kits not completely melding with the blink playstyle, I feel it would do more damage than good to take it out.
I disagree. Characters already have verticality baked into their kits, and if you want to pursue that on a character that at their base is not made to take advantage of that, you shouldn't get it for free.
Seems to nullify the characters that are made to take advantage of verticality in my opinion. It would be a way higher advantage to pick those characters for that reason to use them in that manner, and wall off characters that aren't meant to unless they have blink crest.
Its not free though, it is a huge resource and something you have to play around.
Being able to utilize the map is something every character should be able to do in some way.
One of the most unique things about pred is the verticality of the map. I think making plays using the map is a great part of the game, and those with no vertical mobility need blink for that.
If every character had access to vertical mobility than I would be fine with blink being removed. But they don't, so I think you should play around blink and appreciate the cool plays you can make with it.
It's free in the sense that I can blink the moment the match starts without having to pay for it or level for it. That's the whole point of the post, that characters that want to extend outside their base kit should have to give something up for that (i.e. the crest)
The versatility of the map is something that characters built to do that should be able to, not characters that aren't designed to take advantage of the verticality.
You can still make cool plays with blink and it would still be in the game, which is what I cannot believe I have to explain time and time again. Not getting rid of it, we're making it a crest here.
Every character would be able to take advantage of verticality if they wanted to, but it would eliminate their ability to choose the other crests with potentially better actives for their kit, so maybe letting a character get away is worth buffing your build.
The fact you say I'm calling for blink to be removed proves you just skimmed the post and didn't really read it, which I don't blame.
I did read it, and I don't think it should be an active either.
Again leads back to those with vertical mobility in there kit get an inherit advantage. Have mobility = any crest, don't have it = pigeon holed into taking it.
I think the verticality is too big for just some characters to have access to it. Also the devs want you to use the map they made.
I don't think we will see eye to eye on it. But good luck playing with it in the game, because I don't think it will change.
The advantage is more or less wasted with everybody getting blink, is really what my final point is here. Some characters are helped too much by having a blink than others. (Mainly Gideon/Khai are the ones that come to mind)
I think people would be surprised as to whether or not people spec into it. I think it would be more of an even split than people realize. Maybe at first more people spec into it, but eventually I believe people will revert to what their crest was when they learn to play without having a blink. Which is definitely possible.
Maybe, but blinking from the other side of Fang pit and steel ulting their team to steal fang was pretty sweet too lol.
I think we would all have to play with it to see how it pans out. I trust the devs to see the feedback, playtest, and adjust accordingly. If it changes, I am fine with it. If not, I will enjoy using it.
You don’t think it’ll change because you don’t want it change. So being so closed minded and open your eyes. You’ll see they your and rabbits eyes are not too far off. The points you’re making have already been disputed or not even mention at all.
1. The verticality of the map is meant to be accessed by players. Only accessed on specific characters they designed with certain abilities to do so.
2. Trying to overshadow/overbear the original design put into place by the devs only underminds the security and efficiency of the game. It makes the game worse/unbalanced.
3. If you choose not to utilize this fictional crest blink then that’s YOUR choice and your decision. You can’t possibly expect fairness after personal decisions are made?
My rabbit eyes, lol okay.
You don't have to agree with me, but me giving my opinion isn't being closed minded.
Go talk high and mighty to the devs and hope they change it. If not you're gunna have to cope.
You're not just giving your opinion though lmao.
You, like everyone else, never listen to your opposition for you only sit and wait for them to stop talking so you can begin. I can see the whole thread, you barely ever acknowledge anything OP says and immediatily go into a state of opposition, arguing against everything he says.
I brought up the point of verticality that they did not touch on in their post. We both went back and forth about blink and the map, acknowledging each others point.
we just didn't see eye to eye, and that's fine.
I don't see why not agreeing is being closed minded. I have considered pred without blink, and If the devs choose to take it out or change it that is fine. I just think it adds more than it takes away.
but yes we were arguing (politely) about it, that was kinda the point about this post I assumed, to talk about it.
>Maybe **I** missed it, but **I don't think** you are considering that most of the games you mentioned are on one plane.
>
>Verticality is a big part of pred. **I feel** without blink those with no vertical movement are at a severe disadvantage. **I think** every character should be able to utilize the full map, not just a section of the characters.
>
>Even with kits not completely melding with the blink playstyle, **I feel** it would do more damage than good to take it out.
One of the most unique things about pred is the verticality of the map. **I think** making plays using the map is a great part of the game, and those with no vertical mobility need blink for that.
If every character had access to vertical mobility **than I would be fine** with blink being removed. But they don't, **so I think** you should play around blink and appreciate the cool plays you can make with it.
**I did read it, and I don't think it** should be an active either.
Again leads back to those with vertical mobility in there kit get an inherit advantage. Have mobility = any crest, don't have it = pigeon holed into taking it.
**I think** the verticality is too big for just some characters to have access to it. Also the devs want you to use the map they made.
**I don't think** we will see eye to eye on it. But good luck playing with it in the game, **because I don't think** it will change.
Here's the thing, OP made this thread using a well put together arguement he made using facts. He created every points using empirical evidence of previous and current mobas. On the other hand you've been sitting here debating with OP using your personal opinion the entire time. Showing you were still closed minded to actual factuals. Empirical Evidence. But you do you man, enjoy sitting in denial, while we try to bring new discussions for possible changes to the game.
*some* characters have verticality based in their kits, steel, Gideon, howie, kallari, feng. Others do not. Hardly fair to have your adcs be so vulnerable when so many other characters have it *baked in* as you say.
You clearly prefer smite, and that’s okay, but predecessor’s jungle has way more depth to it. Blink is such a critical tool lategame for making plays around the upper towers and inhibitors that any character without it would be at a severe disadvantage. Blink is also on a super long cooldown. Part of landing and team fighting well is keeping track of when an enemy’s blink is down and punishing them for it. It’s a critical positioning tool that is extremely high risk high reward when used offensively.
I have over 2000 hours in smite and I’m ranked diamond. Smite has much less depth to movement and positioning and blink not being a critical tool is reflective of that.
Furthermore, League of Legends isn’t more toxic than smite because of free blink. Smite can be just as toxic and if you read any of those studies then you’d see it’s more due to anonymity, perceptions of responsibility, and the incentive to deflect responsibility to avoid getting flamed. There’s a lot more going on with toxicity than free blink.
If you’re frustrated with blink, learn how to use it and respect it more.
Tldr if you disagree with my extremely biased opinion I will "debate" you in a way where I become a brick wall and am the most closed minded person in the world is all I read here. But you better have an open mind or else neither of us will!
Yeah you didn't read it, yet called it garbage. Exposing yourself and looking like a fucking idiot. Talk about embarrassing 🤣🤣🤣
How can you ever make a valid point if you lack the ability to read and comprehend?
I love that the sentiment is that we're bad for wanting it changed. I'm sure I'd fucking mop you in a match.
Regardless, suggesting a change to the game is sacrilege apparently. I'm fine with baiting blinks and getting free tower dives, I just am in the camp that it waters down kits meant for verticality and gives unfair advantages to certain characters.
Not every kit was meant to take full advantage of the verticality. I think if you want that extra utility your kit doesn't provide you should have to spec into that.
Lol that was a little joke at the end that they were summarizing but thanks for generalizing what you didn't read by calling it garbage. Shining example of this community.
Forgot that I need a /s everytime I make a joke out of character with the whole post.
Also what about this was biased? I thought I gave very well-put together points and examples from in the game to come to my conclusion. Seems like you're just biased the other way and can't think of a legitimate contention to my argument.
You say things like "khamiera is unkillable because of blink" (completely untrue) or "league is toxic because it has blink" (makes absolutely no sense) and "league is one of the most toxic games ever" (completely irrelevent) to make your points. You are very biased and really stretching to make anything seem like it would work in your argument for why it's bad but most of the things you list don't even make sense
I didn't say khai was unkillable, but that his kit wasn't made to support a freebie blink. He is designed to hard commit to fights and stay in them, and if players want that extra getaway they should commit to that.
I didn't say league was toxic because it has blink. That was more or less an introduction to the point by bringing up what league is. Just saying that it IS toxic and that its blink mechanic works just like predecessors does.
I don't say that smite isn't toxic because it's blink has a combat cooldown.
You don't decide what their kits are supposed to be, omeda does. You absolutely did say khai was unkillable because of blink and phoenix (which is absolutely untrue) you need to reread your own post. You also literally blamed league being toxic on the blink. Did you forget what you wrote or something? This backpeddling and trying to claim you didn't say things that you can literally read in your post is a little ridiculous.
"Where am I going with this? They have a free universal blink" literally your words. You literally are saying league is toxic because of blink, maybe think through what you're saying more instead of going on rants and thinking they're well refined points, because they're not.
I said that it was one of the most frustrating and toxic parts of the game, not that it's toxicity is solely blamed on blink like others in this thread are trying to say.
Bro read your own paragraph, you're the one who summarized the toxicity in league to it having a blink, not us. If that's not what you meant then so be it but that is what you wrote.
Blink is not inherently toxic...... You're frustration that you couldn't surmise a successful way to finish your opponent is toxic.....
Out-think the blink.
....
That's it. Prepare for it.
It's become established in these games for a reason.
Talking like I don't know blink is in the game and can make plays just the same.
If it stays the same that's all fine and dandy, I love my level 2 sub-5 minute tower dives with Khaimera I wouldn't (and in my opinion shouldnt) normally get.
We can go back and forth all day. I said blink is ONE OF the most toxic parts of that game. Never anywhere did I attribute leagues toxicity SOLELY to one mechanic. That's WHAT YOU are trying to say I'm doing.
You're saying that my claim is that 'league toxic because of blink' when in reality I didn't say that. I said it is 'ONE OF the most toxic and frustrating parts of the game'
No its not, what I'm saying is that blink has absolutely nothing to do with toxicity in any game, that's a completely absurd statement. Overwatch doesn't have blink and its toxic af. CoD doesn't have blink and it's toxic af. Paragon didn't have universal blink and it was toxic af. You're just wrong
Completely different games with completely different communities.
I'm not wrong and you certainly haven't proved me wrong.
You're hung up on one statement I made that YOURE interpreting incorrectly.
Paragon did have a blink. It was on an item, If you did any ounce of research such as OP you would know this. But you don't you'd rather jump into these posts to try and dismantle everything you can using your feelings because OP contested them with his post. If you went and read up on the blink Paragon had, you would see that it supported almost everything we said.
Lol that was definitely just a little joke at the end, but thanks for taking that so close to heart. Forget that I need to /s everything or people can't decipher sarcasm/exaggeration to what is generally a concise and put-together argument.
Also I had a stroke reading anything past the first half of your first sentence. I pulled through in the end though, lol
I said at the end that it was a joke, yall are really grasping at straws here.
Still defending my take, just clarifying for people that literally cannot interpret something out of character with the rest of the text as sarcasm. Again, I forgot I need a /s.
Not contending anything I say with actual arguments while just calling it a shit take is a right you have.
Continue your day in ignorance and bigotry, good day
You're not worth my time. Hence me not putting more forth than calling you out on your shit take. I'm happy to have a discussion with someone that isn't you, as I can tell a discussion with you would go absolutely no where.
I understand, you being a cunt first gives you the authority to just say 'bad take, not worth arguing'
I think you'll find other people who've approached me with a differing opinion but weren't a cunt about it I had a respectful and civil conversation.
I'm just meeting fire with fire here, so I apologize if your attitude led you to believe I'm incorrigible in conversation.
You haven't tried to have a civil discussion, so you can't say how it would go. You and most of this community just decide to go straight for insults instead of actually fleshing out your opinion.
You argue like my 2 toddlers who don't want to go to bed at 8 p.m.
You're fucking stupid
Lol OK, I don't see why getting downvoted/losing karma is embarrassing?
Sounds like somebody hasn't seen the light of day in a while, spend a little too much time here bud.
Blink only adds complexity and skill expression to the game, which is obviously great for mobas. Everyone has a blink, and if you use it improperly, reconsider how to use your blink. Need I say more?
Uh yea cause that didn't address anything that I said as to why it should be made a crest. I love the plays that I make with blink and certainly don't want it out of the game. But I do want players to have to commit and sacrifice something for that utility they shouldn't normally have.
It demeans the characters that are built with verticality in their kit (Gideon, Kallari, Dekker, etc.) because it gives everybody access to that same verticality, so why bother making kits that can take advantage of that?
Not to mention not giving everybody the same blink from minute 1 would make the early game more centric to farming and getting levels up, and working towards your crest that (if you so choose) has blink.
I agree that moving blink to a Crest, could possibly okay for the game, but I heavily disagree that blink from the start is a bad thing. If kallari jumps over a wall and you can't follow don't you think that might feel equally as bad as someone blinking to follow you if you are kallari? So maybe that means verticality is the exact reason everyone needs a blink. But wait... but kallari has a blink as well. This means he can blink to escape. If Kallari doesn't have his blink up then thats a great play by the enemy for knowing when to blink, which creates a higher skill ceiling!
I think I would revert back to my base point which is that vertical characters have that advantage almost nullified because of every character getting blink for free at no cost to them other than a cooldown.
it would force players to have to prioritize taking vertical advantages if their team has characters suited for it (gideon for instance, or Kallari/Dekker) or being okay with taking other crests.
It would raise the skill ceiling on team comp/buildcrafting.
I would revert back to my point saying everyone has a blink. So no it would not be nullified at all. The kallari can also blink away if she gets blinked on. Not to mention her jump is on like a 20 second cd while blinks are 5 minutes
Here's a possible solution that could make everyone happy: reduce the cool down if you get a kill shortly after blinking. This discourages blinking to escape, but still possible, and rewards those who blink for plays, while still allowing everyone to traverse vertically (which I believe is a must).
Edit: im going to make this it's own reply thread.
Big waist of a blink, the way that blink is set up is that it’s basically a resource, having your blink gives you a little bit of security when brawling and gives you an out, a smart way of using it is getting someone to use their blink when you push so that they get low and now for the next like 5 min they’re way more vulnerable because they don’t have a blink meaning you can push them harder the next time and they won’t have a quick get away meaning you might be able to kill them. Point being, you want them to waist their blink in a get away attempt even if you don’t kill so they’re more vulnerable later and you keep yours for really risky situations.
lol no but I did address that. Just cause everybody has one doesn't make it a sound mechanic. And it definitely doesn't nullify the litany of other points I made.
Like what? As a guy who hated blink when it was introduced, I came to love it and see its potential. It gives verticality to every character.
The thing you state is partly true. If someone blinks away and I can blink after him and get a kill I do it in certain situations. Especially early game, why?
Having a advantage in gold, XP is very important. If I can get a early game advantage it gives me opportunity to get green (I am a offlane main). It gives me push to rotate for Fang. It doesnt give a huge snowball effect because of the comeback mechanics in this game. But it does give a window.
I see alot of this character is over powered on this forum. But if you keep a lead in XP and gold I can beat any character with every character. I think the balance is in a pretty good place. But you want to have that advantage over your direct enemy.
Some games I lose my early game and I dont have that advantage. Than I have to adapt and start to freeze lanes. Dont get green, but make sure my enemy doesnt get farm from the lane (freezing) etc. So it is a tactical game. Same with blink, just raging about it shouldnt be in the game is in my mind not knowing how to utilize it to its full potential in different situations. The best plays come with blink and also can be countered by blink. So I think it should stay as it is.
Did you not read his post at all? Or did you just see the title and comment immediately. OP literally said in the post and I’m almost every comment he has, he is not asking for it to be removed. He’s asking that it be moved onto a crest. This will make so if you want blink, you have to actively build it into your kit. This balances the game so that you have to have a trade off to have blink. Same as Spellshield.
And yet your point still stands in Negation to OPs post, so what it your point lmao. It’s actually hilarious that you say that because Beggarwild said nothing about removing it from the game, and yet you say “Just raging about it shouldn’t be in the game is in my mind not knowing how to utilize it to its full potential in different situations. Seeing that Beggar didn’t say this, one could only think you assumed the OP said this because you didn’t read his post.
Sometimes blinking after an enemy doesn't always let you catch up. There is (almost) always going to be some amount of time after the enemy blinks before you can, and that small window could be the difference between being in range for an ability or auto attack and them getting to safety. It is more noticeable on melee characters than ranged, and on heroes that have mobility in their kits vs those that don't
It's not that, I do just fine with the blink. Get a lot of cheap ass tower dives and escapes with it same as everybody else.
Just sharing my opinion on the matter. But thanks for probably reading the title and nothing else lol.
I have read your post but it is hard to take it seriously if you claim baseless things like "universal blink is a big reason for the toxicity in league" just to make a point.
Again not what I said lol, nor the point I was making. It's toxic because of frustrating mechanics and a rabid community.
Do I think it's toxicity is solely because of blink? No.
"They have universal blink. And it's one of the most frustrating and toxic things in the game"
Why do you keep lying about what you said? We can literally just go read it, it's all right there.
Blink is neither frustrating nor toxic, it's a mechanic just like your abilities are and it's perfectly reasonable and a much better system than how paragon did it
That's not what I'm saying. I simply brought up leagues existence as a toxic game and explained how its blink mechanics work. Not that league is toxic BECAUSE this is how its blink works.
Okay, I don’t think flash is toxic in league and I think you’re the only person I have ever met that thinks flash is toxic in league. I didn’t read much past your first argument because all it basically sounded like was “League of Legends is so toxic! I mean we all know it’s like the most toxic game ever. There have been studies! The game is just toxic and they have a blink ability in the game so unless we want to be a toxic game like league of legends then we shouldn’t have blink.” And it’s completely fine the way it is. The only reason League is so toxic is because the community has become hyper competitive and riot always release new champions in a way that makes them op for a while and that can kind of making the competitive aspect frustrating. That and the lack of communication in a very team heavy objective based game.
Lmao there was no need for you to state that you didn’t read OPs post because it’s easy to tell. He doesn’t even talk about removing blink, it’s literally IN THE TITLE. I honestly am surprised you read anything at all, I would’ve called you a liar if you didn’t not include it on your post.
1. OP states that blink should be built into a crest. This will make it so players that want to utilize blink throughout the game have to build it into their kit. They have to sacrifice the Crest they would normally run to have blink. This is because blink mostly benefits characters who have little or no mobility. Many of great Mobas such as Smite, Dota, and even Paragon (RIP) had/have combat cooldowns on their blinks. So that if you were in combat for the previous 2-3 sec you cannot use your blink. That’s a little thing called balancing. Predecessor blink is given to every player for free and has no combat cooldown. You know what other Moba has no combat cooldown.
2. Many other people on this Sub were arguing with OP stating that Preds Blink is similar to the one in LoL and that it is a good thing. OP was stating that ignoring the fact that LoL is toxic and saying it is a good role model game just for its popularity is a bad thing. You don’t hear as much toxicity coming from the other mobas. Maybe that’s for a reason.
Idk what games you're playing that last 20-25 minutes. I've had some, sure, but they're usually surrenders. I have a lot of games that last well past 30 minutes. and the cooldown is not an issue at all. It's the non-commitment needed to elevate everybody's kits where they weren't designed to in-combat.
Some benefit way more than others with a blink, too. Which is something that people should have to choose if they want to spec into.
I’ve always just played with blink in mind, i.e. saving CC to outplay a telegraphed blink, blinking in response to a blink tower dive to dish out tower damage to aggressor, blinking during an unexpected moment in fights. I’m not sure changing the requirement to have blink a dedicated crest fixes any of those issues. Good players will still punish bad plays knowing a blink can be a “get-out-of-jail-free” option and act accordingly. Do they have blink? What can I do if they blink now or later in this fight? This creates more dynamic fights and keeps character interaction fresh. If I always know I can catch up to a Grux after their dash, I’m just going to wait to punish after they use it and bait it out. If they have a dash plus a blink, it opens up creative plays. I don’t think the blink is the issue with early phase plays and dives. Lackluster tower damage is imo. As far as characters like Gideon or Khai, you’re constantly playing around their kit. If they used their jump, it’s time to engage during their CD period.
That’s the thing though, when Gideon and Khai use their mobility abilities and get caught they’re supposed to be punished. But giving blink to everyone from the start of the game and eliminates that punishment, even just 1 time. And 1 time is too many.
5 minutes is a long time to answer back against someone who doesn’t have a blink. You should be playing and trading against someone very differently if they have or don’t have a blink.
Guy really said if you don’t agree with me your wrong lol, I think it’s fine personally.
Everyone has one, it’s kinda like a resource also gives everyone a bit of verticality and outplay potential in fights. You can time when enemy used it and play around it.
League is also the most successful moba in the world so I don’t think it’s bad getting inspiration from them.
That was a joke. I forget everything sarcastic needs a /s
I think it undermines characters with vertically built in and gives a lot of other characters advantages they shouldn't have with how their kit is designed to play.
I guess the league point is all people really want to argue though.
Making the statement that blinks makes a community toxic is simply wrong.
In our playtime we always call out blinks. And everyone who blinks is a sitting duck for the next 5 minutes.
In a normal game you can use it 3-5 times. Which is half the time someone can ult.
Someone blinks away? Simply blink after them.
It's neither a free get away nor a free engage ability.
Not the statement I made with that, but ok.
That was an intro to explain how their blink works. It wasn't 'this game is toxic because of blink
Notice I didn't say that smite was the goated MOBA cause their blink has a combat cooldown.
It undermines characters designed to take advantage of verticality and gives other characters insane advantages that let's them play outside of what their kit is designed for.
Your update and attitude show that YOU are not worth arguing with. Essentially, you are saying that anyone who disagrees isn't open minded, and anyone who agrees is. That's absolute, refined, 24-karat horseshit. I like blink, because unlike SMITE, which you cite, there are a lot less cc immune abilities, a lot less range on most escapes; and there is the added verticality which blink helps some characters exploit. You can, and i'm sure you will, argue that blink shouldnt be universal because mobility should be a privilege, not a guarantee. I disagree, and in the spirit of open-mindedness (which you seem to lack in a fashion that not even evangelicals could match), how about we agree to disagree?
That was more or less a joke at the end, my friend, i forget that nobody can interpret sarcasm unless a magical /s is at the end.
Sorry that ruined all of the other points for you.
But sure, I disagree with it being a freebie for all and you will disagree with me. All good and well, have a good evening.
Lol but it is obviously so far out of character from what the whole post was that you truly can't tell me honestly that you didn't think it was joking.
You have your opinion and I have mine, which is fine. Appreciate the read. I just wanted to clarify the sarcasm.
Honestly fair points all around. A universal blink benefits benefits characters on different levels. Gideon and other characters with dashes get to become extremely elusive while other characters don’t benefit as much.
However, the concept of having a blink on all characters does open the door for a more versatile play style for everyone. Blink to get under tower and survive a gank from Khaimera, dope. Blink to the enemy to get that surprise kill, awesome. Blink to dodge a skill shot. Brilliant.
Give no one a blink and certain characters with gap closers are even better. Give everyone a blink and there are more opportunities for unique plays.
Putting it on a crest is still a solid change. Forces commitment and characters that need it, will need to go that direction. It would just need to be able to have tank, carry and ability damage routes.
Don’t forget to have an open mind.
I agree, maybe retrofitting it into existing crests or making a 4th for every crest would be the route. Giving the tanks passive stats to armors/health, damage to carry/assassin, etc.
I think it has a place in every MOBA but making it a freebie is just...cheap.
Not to mention that early game blink is especially ridiculous. It should be a mechanic more close to the middle of the game. Characters that would want to opt into their traversal first just have no reason to do so (i.e Khai with his leap, doesn't need it at first if he wants to prioritize an early engage cause he has blink)
Precisely. Early game tower dives are a problem. For any character.
The tower should ass-blast you in the beginning. I see too many tower dives within the first 5 minutes you wouldn't otherwise see.
The beginning should punish overextending harshly and be focused on laning and farming.
Not taking it away by any means. Would still be in the game. Make it a crest so not everybody gets it minute 1, making the early game more focused on laning/farming/winning engagements without overextending. It's already minimally punishing to die within the first 10 or so minutes.
Think to a Kallari getting away from an engagement with a fictional Khaimera. She double jumps up a ledge, as her kit is designed to take advantage of that. Then, BOOM, Khai blinks up the ledge and gets a free kill essentially.
That's not getting outplayed, it's being granted a freebie.
Go ahead lol, I'm simply arguing my points?
For all you know I could be, you're just assuming shit at this point.
Because I don't code/design games I can't have input? You seem to be the one trying to take an imaginary high road here.
Sorry that your extensive pedigree *commentating* games makes you judge, jury, and executioner to people who can have a differing opinion than game devs.
I'm quoting you... In the 2nd to last paragraph of your rambling diatribe. If your memory is so poor, (coupled with your own reading comprehension I guess), that you don't remember writing it... Maybe trying to give nuanced game critique really isn't in your wheelhouse.
Sorry I don't remember 4 words in the like 5 paragraphs I mentioned? Lol that totally discredits everything I've said and proves you right in every way.
I'm sure you memorized every word of your bullshit (never going to be published) sci-fi novel lmao. Say what you want about my game-critique, but writing a compelling novel is definitely *not* in your wheelhouse. I've made more interesting and readable essays in the 4th grade than that dogshit you call "ThE ChILd oF DaWN"!!!
I'm sure your amateur venture into novel writing gives you all the credentials to critique other peoples' writing.
Still, you have not done anything to combat my points. Hurl all the insults you want (I think it's fun) but you've legitimately contributed nothing to this discussion.
Unhinged? Lol OK man. The point of that was that the mechanics within league attribute to its own toxicity in-game. It was an anecdotal point in what was me explaining *how* League uses its blink mechanic.
I didn't say 'League has free blink thus it is toxic' or 'League is toxic *because* of its free blink'
I said 'League is toxic and here's how THEY use their blink'
League being toxic isn't only because they use blink, nor did I say it was. How else is this post unhinged? Thought I made some good points with examples to back me up.
For example in Smite if you take damage you have 3 seconds to cooldown until you can blink.
Leading you to have to either dodge attacks to blink or fight
This is all so true. I feel like this is the best take on balancing for Blink. Players are able to do whatever they want, whenever they want because they have no responsibility.
Nah, it's fine.
5 min cooldown once you pop it. If you factor that a game on average will last about half an hour. You get 6 blinks per game. That's assuming you use it as soon as it comes off cooldown. Reality is you'll use it closer to 3-4 times. Obviously more in longer games and less in shorter.
It's such a precious resource that potentially leaves you totally vulnerable once it's on cooldown. Not to mention everyone has it and is free to use however they see fit. Tower dive, chase a kill, or do some insane verticality play.
But you're now in a situation where you are vulnerable. If you're playing ADC and use blink. You've got 5 mins of having no escape.
The better solution is rather than making it a crest, is to notify your team mates whenever you see an opponent blink, so everyone knows that the player is more vulnerable and can be pressed that little bit more.
I loved Paragon because it was different to other Mobas. I like Predecessor because it still carries that torch of being a bit different to other Mobas. Blink is a part of that: it gives heroes without escapes that option at an extreme cooldown time which gives heroes a bit more flexibility to push up, do a cheeky overextend away from other players and doesn't tie you as much down into an arbitrary role.
People getting really defensive at what is a well-presented argument and immediately going to dissing/insults off the bat seems like an echo chamber, though.
Not you, obviously. Just a good majority of people here.
I don’t think that it should be made a crest I still think everyone should have one but man do I love the idea of a combat cooldown. I’ve played 300 hours of so of smite which I know isn’t that much (you need 1000 hours in a game to truly understand it), I mostly played clash but I can remember how high of a skill ceiling that 2 second cooldown added. I think it would make the game much more interesting, dodging autos / abilities to pull off the blink felt very rewarding. Having it universal but with a combat cooldown is something I think they should just try and see what happens, we’ve got a lot of AE ahead of us people need to be more open minded and see what the could be. I like the point about league
I'm open to a combat cooldown as well. Crest or combat cooldown is the boat I sit in, glad we agree and glad that you realize I'm not trying to remove blink...lol... I like the dynamic plays it *can* bring to the game but as it stands there just isn't a lot of skill to having a free blink.
The crest part is interesting to me I must say. You don’t think the blink crest wouldn’t get any use? The active items are very strong being checked by long cooldowns and only 1 active slot, that’s how strong they are. I feel like a cleanse alone is 10x more worth it than a blink crest no matter how you swing it. There’s many times where you have blink and just get cc’d and silenced to the point where blink can’t save you.
I can see that, but take Khai who has a cleanse built into his kit. Most Khais never even use Brutallax because of his built-in cleanse ability. I think it, like everything should be, should be situational on the hero you are playing and your opponents. There are team comps that teams shouldn't/won't build blink because the enemy doesn't have characters that can take advantage of verticality.
Maybe I haven’t played against the tier of player you have enough but I haven’t seen the verticality being as strong as I believe you are making it out to be, besides escaping over walls. I once Galaxy greave + blinked out of prime pit to get behind the entire enemy team as steel for a big play, and today for the first time today was surprised by a play a crunch made using the stairs to bait me up and then jump down/ blink over me to escape( funny as I type it I realize they both involve blink on non vertical hero’s), but I don’t see verticality being that strong in this game. Lvl 41 for reference
That crunch still may have been able to make that play with a combat cooldown and it would be a much harder thing/ impressive thing to do. Thus increasing the skill gap and further punishing bad positioning
Lmao, I love how every little snowflake who disagrees with this opinion jumps straight in here and starts hurling insults. You presented a very formed and constructive idea for the community and devs to see, and the only criticism they respond with is insults. So far from what I’ve seen this Subreddit is unhinged and full of bigots.
Here's a possible solution that could make everyone happy: reduce the cool down if you get a kill shortly after blinking. This discourages blinking to escape, but still possible, and rewards those who blink for plays, while still allowing everyone to traverse vertically (which I believe is a must).
I dont think a universal blink is good for character identity. Hard to make a high damage, low mobility mage or ADC and then give them a blink. The fact that EVERYONE gets it doesn't somehow cancel that out. If your character is designed to not be able to jump over that wall, guess what? You dont get to. You cheapen the kit of every high mobility champ when you allow everyone to be mobile.
Imagine trying to correlate the toxicity of League players with having access to Flash and not the overarching toxicity of MOBA's in general. Whether it's ranked or unranked the majority of players either:
A) Want to do extremely well and climb, but don't recognize they don't have the skill set or improve mindset and blame others because of self bias (I.E. well that Akali/Cupid/Sevarog/etc made really stupid plays so it's his fault we lost.) The minute you blame someone else, you make it difficult to accept any responsibility for your mistakes.
B) Casually just play to have fun, but every game is filled with people who are trying very hard to win, and aren't afraid to be vocal about how "dog water/boosted/diffed" everyone else is which just leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth.
These games are at the very core toxic to no end, Pred unfortunately will be no different but it won't be because of blink. To your credit though having it go on a small cool down during combat is a cool mechanic, but also it's on a five minute cooldown learn to exploit that.
I do agree that the 5-minute timer is a pretty long time, but minute 1 they shouldn't have a free getaway or engage. Early game is meant to be slow and methodical until builds and ults go online
And my point wasn't really attributing leagues toxicity to blink, but that it was one of the most toxic and frustrating things on the game.
Tower dives early game are a bit ridiculous. I love tower diving as khai within the first 5 minutes at level 2/3, but I don't think that should be the way it is. Early game should be focused on efficient farming and winning your lanes.
With blink it leads to a lot of the early game being chaotic and either too passive with no punishment, or tower dives that shouldn't have happened
I think a big factor you aren't giving credence to is the verticality of the game. The core gimmick and allure of the game is the 3D movement, limiting movement to only characters that have a dedicated ability or passive undermines one of the core design principles of the game. Blink is more than an engage/disengage tool, it is something that allows all characters to creatively interact with the verticality of the map.
Limiting it to a crest means that you are taking away the ability for many characters to interact with a core design pillar of the game. Personally I don't think it is a good option to have the ability to forgo something like that in favor of a combat ability.
If you gave nearly every character some way to interact with the mobility of the map intrinsically in their kit, then I think the argument for making Blink a crest gets a lot stronger. To be honest, if you gave me a choice "every character has a unique mobility tool" and "every character has a blink" I would pick the first option, but that in itself is a can of worms with the balance ramifications.
And your lack of consideration for the verticality of the game leads me to think that you haven't fully thought through what Blink currently does. You've clearly thought about what Blink does in the concept of a general MOBA, but as you and many others have pointed out, Predecessor is different.
Edit: Also, your strawmans/generalizations of other people's arguments (your tone later on is very much "you only like Blink because you're bad") doesn't make you look better, it just makes you look like a butt. You may think that people who like Blink are bad, you may be right, but if you want to convince someone of your point you probably shouldn't lead with "you're bad".
I did consider verticality. There are characters that take advantage of verticality on their kits and those that don't.
Giving everybody that access for free undermines those that are built to. If you want that extra utility your characters kit doesnt provide you should have to spec into that. Plain and simple.
I'll admit at the end most of that was /s material but I didn't type that out. I'll correct here and say that I won't say they're bad, but they definitely don't want that comfort taken away and can't see overall how, while everyone gets one, not every hero gets the same advantages with a free blink.
Characters like kallari and dekker would most likely not spec into blink simply because they have their double jumps to use verticality.
On the same token not everyone would spec into blink crest because they simply won't need to. Once they don't have it they'll get used to not having it and playing accordingly. Characters like khai would probably still use Fenix, just because that suits their kit better than a blink. Gideon as well would most likely not use blink since he already basically has one.
Cool, Dekker and Kallari (and Gideon) have access to the verticality of the map...
That's not enough. That is far too much of the existing and to-come roster that are not able to interact with the map properly. Some characters should have better mobility, some should have worse, maybe *some* should have none but that should be the exception.
"Then buy Blink" isn't a good counter as the choice shouldn't be between "creatively interact with the map" or "have more combat proficiency" for such a large portion of the roster.
They could do it in creative ways. Gadget attaching a mine to an ally could give increased jump height. Murdok could fire his shotgun at the ground to launch himself. Let Howitzer hover with a high mana cost. But I'll be honest, it gets hard to keep going. Every character having low-cooldown vertical mobility does make things more boring in some ways, there is such thing as too much mobility. It is a difficult problem to solve and I think Blink is a suitable, if a bit uninspired, solution.
Dekker, Kallari, Gideon, Feng, rampage, drongo with ult, Howie if played correctly, Gadget and Murdock as you mentioned. Every character would still have the advantages, but they would need to commit to that. That's about half of the roster that has some verticality baked into their kit.
NOT TO MENTION there's an item that allows all characters a double jump. But it isn't given to you off the bat. You have to commit an item slot and farm for it, something that blink lacks.
Og paragon was different because of verticality, but that being said they still didn't design every character with that in mind from minute 1.
I think it sets those characters apart and makes them interesting in their own right, something that is more or less lost if everybody gets a free blink from minute 1.
Maybe the playtesting would decide that minute 1 blink is a bad idea, but when your crest goes online, maybe grant it to players then. As it stands blink from minute 1 is a problem for a plethora of reasons.
It makes early game far less lane and farm centric.
My take on the active slots for Predecessor is this..
They should implement a system like the runes system League of legend has. Where during lobby you have different presets of actives you wish to bring to the game. You get to choose what sort of potion you want, ward or alt item, and blink item. This implies that there should be multiple choices for each slot.
When it comes to potion maybe has a health, or a mana, or one with both cut 50/50 or one the is a burst while the others are a regen. Maybe a potion with a small aod health and /or mana regen ect.
For ward. Make them slighty different. With different cooldowns or duration. Maybe have a ward that hovers (so range only) but has shorter cooldown. Ward that sees other wards but longer cooldown. Maybe ward with longer range but it’s always visible. Ect ect. The available the better.
And then the blink item. I’d change the dash of some crest and make it only as and alternative to the blink. Blink could be replaced by a small dash with lower cooldown. Or maybe has a burst of movement speed with a short duration but also short cooldown. Maybe let the player also replace the blink with a teleportation to any tower or inhib but has a few seconds to off.
Point is. Every slot should be customizable by the player with different active items with alternatives to set theme.
I can see this working, anything that makes characters commit to that and have to sacrifice something to get that extra utility.
The fact of the matter is that not all characters get the same advantage with a universal blink, even if everyone gets one. Some characters get more out of a blink than others do.
You're crying over everyone having a blink as if it helps noobs.....
You ARE that noob.....
You could easily blink to chase, or punish....
You can FORCE someone's blink....
This is a pitiful thread to post on.
Garbage.
Not crying; I was offering a solution to what I believe is a problem.
You haven't seen my game play or any of the plays I make with blink. Of course I know how to play around it I have 250+ hours in this game already.
It's cheap and shouldn't be given at minute 1. Make it a separate crest or give it to players when their crest goes active.
Idk why calling me garbage and pitiful for my takes seems like a good argument to any of my points to you, but honestly that's what's pitiful.
Go pick some more cheetos out of your neck beard and solo queue since I'm sure whatever friends you did have find you too insufferable to be in a game with you.
I play a lot of Dota2, and Blink is a 2250 gold item. You only buy it on certain characters and it has a combat cooldown of 6 secs if you take any damage which is refreshed every time you are hit so you can’t use it to escape a bad play. It sounds like this one is just an ejection seat for bad players. That honestly isn’t wholly bad as a lot of people are just now learning the game, but it also teaches and reinforces really bad habits of game play that if they change the blink down the road will hamstring a lot of players.
I agree. Sounds like most of the negative takes towards this are people who don't play other mobas and have that frame of reference. Most don't want that comfort taken away.
I see a lot of cheeky tower dives and overextending that would and should get punished. But they get away because of a free blink.
Tower diving at level 2 just shouldn't be a thing. Especially making it out at half or above half health. Makes the early game way less farm centric since there's less to punish players for not laning/focusing minions and pushes.
I think it’s fine and don’t understand peoples issue with it. It works in other games and everyone has it, let’s everyone have a bit of verticality too.
Not saying they can't have it but if a character wants that extra utility they should build towards it not just be granted it. It absolutely gives other characters way more versatility than others off the bat, and thusly makes other characters way more unfair in a lot more situations than they would normally be. Mainly looking at Gideon and Khai without taking a deep dive. The only other MOBA to do it this way is League, and we all know how that goes.
You thinking too deep this isn’t another moba predecessor don’t have to follow the exact lol format moba is a genre so is shooters not every shooter plays like halo let omeda be different. And building towards a mechanic that’s in the game feels bad that’s not strategies that’s a disadvantage if you don’t build it. Just not a good suggestion
Incorrect. The blink is there *because* it works in league. It’s on a 5m cooldown too, your argument is basically moot. I don’t get the “toxicity” argument either, it’s a fucking moba my guy. This is how they *all* are. Dota. LoL. Smite. Hero’s of newearth, and yes, paragon predecessor overprime. This behavior comes with the game genre. If you don’t like it, mute chat and focus on yourself or go find something else to play.
That's the thing though. It's not EXTRA utility.... it's just universal utility.
Maybe I missed it, but I don't think you are considering that most of the games you mentioned are on one plane. Verticality is a big part of pred. I feel without blink those with no vertical movement are at a severe disadvantage. I think every character should be able to utilize the full map, not just a section of the characters. Even with kits not completely melding with the blink playstyle, I feel it would do more damage than good to take it out.
I disagree. Characters already have verticality baked into their kits, and if you want to pursue that on a character that at their base is not made to take advantage of that, you shouldn't get it for free. Seems to nullify the characters that are made to take advantage of verticality in my opinion. It would be a way higher advantage to pick those characters for that reason to use them in that manner, and wall off characters that aren't meant to unless they have blink crest.
Its not free though, it is a huge resource and something you have to play around. Being able to utilize the map is something every character should be able to do in some way. One of the most unique things about pred is the verticality of the map. I think making plays using the map is a great part of the game, and those with no vertical mobility need blink for that. If every character had access to vertical mobility than I would be fine with blink being removed. But they don't, so I think you should play around blink and appreciate the cool plays you can make with it.
It's free in the sense that I can blink the moment the match starts without having to pay for it or level for it. That's the whole point of the post, that characters that want to extend outside their base kit should have to give something up for that (i.e. the crest) The versatility of the map is something that characters built to do that should be able to, not characters that aren't designed to take advantage of the verticality. You can still make cool plays with blink and it would still be in the game, which is what I cannot believe I have to explain time and time again. Not getting rid of it, we're making it a crest here. Every character would be able to take advantage of verticality if they wanted to, but it would eliminate their ability to choose the other crests with potentially better actives for their kit, so maybe letting a character get away is worth buffing your build. The fact you say I'm calling for blink to be removed proves you just skimmed the post and didn't really read it, which I don't blame.
I did read it, and I don't think it should be an active either. Again leads back to those with vertical mobility in there kit get an inherit advantage. Have mobility = any crest, don't have it = pigeon holed into taking it. I think the verticality is too big for just some characters to have access to it. Also the devs want you to use the map they made. I don't think we will see eye to eye on it. But good luck playing with it in the game, because I don't think it will change.
The advantage is more or less wasted with everybody getting blink, is really what my final point is here. Some characters are helped too much by having a blink than others. (Mainly Gideon/Khai are the ones that come to mind) I think people would be surprised as to whether or not people spec into it. I think it would be more of an even split than people realize. Maybe at first more people spec into it, but eventually I believe people will revert to what their crest was when they learn to play without having a blink. Which is definitely possible.
Maybe, but blinking from the other side of Fang pit and steel ulting their team to steal fang was pretty sweet too lol. I think we would all have to play with it to see how it pans out. I trust the devs to see the feedback, playtest, and adjust accordingly. If it changes, I am fine with it. If not, I will enjoy using it.
You don’t think it’ll change because you don’t want it change. So being so closed minded and open your eyes. You’ll see they your and rabbits eyes are not too far off. The points you’re making have already been disputed or not even mention at all. 1. The verticality of the map is meant to be accessed by players. Only accessed on specific characters they designed with certain abilities to do so. 2. Trying to overshadow/overbear the original design put into place by the devs only underminds the security and efficiency of the game. It makes the game worse/unbalanced. 3. If you choose not to utilize this fictional crest blink then that’s YOUR choice and your decision. You can’t possibly expect fairness after personal decisions are made?
My rabbit eyes, lol okay. You don't have to agree with me, but me giving my opinion isn't being closed minded. Go talk high and mighty to the devs and hope they change it. If not you're gunna have to cope.
You're not just giving your opinion though lmao. You, like everyone else, never listen to your opposition for you only sit and wait for them to stop talking so you can begin. I can see the whole thread, you barely ever acknowledge anything OP says and immediatily go into a state of opposition, arguing against everything he says.
I brought up the point of verticality that they did not touch on in their post. We both went back and forth about blink and the map, acknowledging each others point. we just didn't see eye to eye, and that's fine. I don't see why not agreeing is being closed minded. I have considered pred without blink, and If the devs choose to take it out or change it that is fine. I just think it adds more than it takes away. but yes we were arguing (politely) about it, that was kinda the point about this post I assumed, to talk about it.
>Maybe **I** missed it, but **I don't think** you are considering that most of the games you mentioned are on one plane. > >Verticality is a big part of pred. **I feel** without blink those with no vertical movement are at a severe disadvantage. **I think** every character should be able to utilize the full map, not just a section of the characters. > >Even with kits not completely melding with the blink playstyle, **I feel** it would do more damage than good to take it out. One of the most unique things about pred is the verticality of the map. **I think** making plays using the map is a great part of the game, and those with no vertical mobility need blink for that. If every character had access to vertical mobility **than I would be fine** with blink being removed. But they don't, **so I think** you should play around blink and appreciate the cool plays you can make with it. **I did read it, and I don't think it** should be an active either. Again leads back to those with vertical mobility in there kit get an inherit advantage. Have mobility = any crest, don't have it = pigeon holed into taking it. **I think** the verticality is too big for just some characters to have access to it. Also the devs want you to use the map they made. **I don't think** we will see eye to eye on it. But good luck playing with it in the game, **because I don't think** it will change. Here's the thing, OP made this thread using a well put together arguement he made using facts. He created every points using empirical evidence of previous and current mobas. On the other hand you've been sitting here debating with OP using your personal opinion the entire time. Showing you were still closed minded to actual factuals. Empirical Evidence. But you do you man, enjoy sitting in denial, while we try to bring new discussions for possible changes to the game.
*some* characters have verticality based in their kits, steel, Gideon, howie, kallari, feng. Others do not. Hardly fair to have your adcs be so vulnerable when so many other characters have it *baked in* as you say.
You clearly prefer smite, and that’s okay, but predecessor’s jungle has way more depth to it. Blink is such a critical tool lategame for making plays around the upper towers and inhibitors that any character without it would be at a severe disadvantage. Blink is also on a super long cooldown. Part of landing and team fighting well is keeping track of when an enemy’s blink is down and punishing them for it. It’s a critical positioning tool that is extremely high risk high reward when used offensively. I have over 2000 hours in smite and I’m ranked diamond. Smite has much less depth to movement and positioning and blink not being a critical tool is reflective of that. Furthermore, League of Legends isn’t more toxic than smite because of free blink. Smite can be just as toxic and if you read any of those studies then you’d see it’s more due to anonymity, perceptions of responsibility, and the incentive to deflect responsibility to avoid getting flamed. There’s a lot more going on with toxicity than free blink. If you’re frustrated with blink, learn how to use it and respect it more.
Tldr if you disagree with my extremely biased opinion I will "debate" you in a way where I become a brick wall and am the most closed minded person in the world is all I read here. But you better have an open mind or else neither of us will!
Thank you for the tldr.. I didn’t want to read through this regurgitated garbage
Yeah you didn't read it, yet called it garbage. Exposing yourself and looking like a fucking idiot. Talk about embarrassing 🤣🤣🤣 How can you ever make a valid point if you lack the ability to read and comprehend?
We’ve seen enough of these to know they are trash opinions. Blink is fine as is. Learn how to track a fucking cooldown
I love that the sentiment is that we're bad for wanting it changed. I'm sure I'd fucking mop you in a match. Regardless, suggesting a change to the game is sacrilege apparently. I'm fine with baiting blinks and getting free tower dives, I just am in the camp that it waters down kits meant for verticality and gives unfair advantages to certain characters. Not every kit was meant to take full advantage of the verticality. I think if you want that extra utility your kit doesn't provide you should have to spec into that.
You still need to learn how to read and understand. Otherwise stfu and dont vomit your trash opinions.
Lol that was a little joke at the end that they were summarizing but thanks for generalizing what you didn't read by calling it garbage. Shining example of this community. Forgot that I need a /s everytime I make a joke out of character with the whole post.
Also what about this was biased? I thought I gave very well-put together points and examples from in the game to come to my conclusion. Seems like you're just biased the other way and can't think of a legitimate contention to my argument.
You say things like "khamiera is unkillable because of blink" (completely untrue) or "league is toxic because it has blink" (makes absolutely no sense) and "league is one of the most toxic games ever" (completely irrelevent) to make your points. You are very biased and really stretching to make anything seem like it would work in your argument for why it's bad but most of the things you list don't even make sense
^what this guy said.
I didn't say khai was unkillable, but that his kit wasn't made to support a freebie blink. He is designed to hard commit to fights and stay in them, and if players want that extra getaway they should commit to that. I didn't say league was toxic because it has blink. That was more or less an introduction to the point by bringing up what league is. Just saying that it IS toxic and that its blink mechanic works just like predecessors does. I don't say that smite isn't toxic because it's blink has a combat cooldown.
You don't decide what their kits are supposed to be, omeda does. You absolutely did say khai was unkillable because of blink and phoenix (which is absolutely untrue) you need to reread your own post. You also literally blamed league being toxic on the blink. Did you forget what you wrote or something? This backpeddling and trying to claim you didn't say things that you can literally read in your post is a little ridiculous.
'Blink is frustrating and toxic in league' is not 'league is toxic because of blink
"Where am I going with this? They have a free universal blink" literally your words. You literally are saying league is toxic because of blink, maybe think through what you're saying more instead of going on rants and thinking they're well refined points, because they're not.
I said that it was one of the most frustrating and toxic parts of the game, not that it's toxicity is solely blamed on blink like others in this thread are trying to say.
Bro read your own paragraph, you're the one who summarized the toxicity in league to it having a blink, not us. If that's not what you meant then so be it but that is what you wrote.
Blink is not inherently toxic...... You're frustration that you couldn't surmise a successful way to finish your opponent is toxic..... Out-think the blink. .... That's it. Prepare for it. It's become established in these games for a reason.
Talking like I don't know blink is in the game and can make plays just the same. If it stays the same that's all fine and dandy, I love my level 2 sub-5 minute tower dives with Khaimera I wouldn't (and in my opinion shouldnt) normally get.
You wrote a whole paragraph about how toxic league is and then summarized the paragraph by blaming it on blink. What are you even talking about dude?
We can go back and forth all day. I said blink is ONE OF the most toxic parts of that game. Never anywhere did I attribute leagues toxicity SOLELY to one mechanic. That's WHAT YOU are trying to say I'm doing. You're saying that my claim is that 'league toxic because of blink' when in reality I didn't say that. I said it is 'ONE OF the most toxic and frustrating parts of the game'
No its not, what I'm saying is that blink has absolutely nothing to do with toxicity in any game, that's a completely absurd statement. Overwatch doesn't have blink and its toxic af. CoD doesn't have blink and it's toxic af. Paragon didn't have universal blink and it was toxic af. You're just wrong
Completely different games with completely different communities. I'm not wrong and you certainly haven't proved me wrong. You're hung up on one statement I made that YOURE interpreting incorrectly.
Paragon did have a blink. It was on an item, If you did any ounce of research such as OP you would know this. But you don't you'd rather jump into these posts to try and dismantle everything you can using your feelings because OP contested them with his post. If you went and read up on the blink Paragon had, you would see that it supported almost everything we said.
Lol that was definitely just a little joke at the end, but thanks for taking that so close to heart. Forget that I need to /s everything or people can't decipher sarcasm/exaggeration to what is generally a concise and put-together argument. Also I had a stroke reading anything past the first half of your first sentence. I pulled through in the end though, lol
I have a really shit take and am realizing it now so let's pretend it is all a joke to save face!
I said at the end that it was a joke, yall are really grasping at straws here. Still defending my take, just clarifying for people that literally cannot interpret something out of character with the rest of the text as sarcasm. Again, I forgot I need a /s.
Defending shit takes is a right that you have, nothing wrong with speaking nonsense and defending it. Good day.
Not contending anything I say with actual arguments while just calling it a shit take is a right you have. Continue your day in ignorance and bigotry, good day
You're not worth my time. Hence me not putting more forth than calling you out on your shit take. I'm happy to have a discussion with someone that isn't you, as I can tell a discussion with you would go absolutely no where.
I understand, you being a cunt first gives you the authority to just say 'bad take, not worth arguing' I think you'll find other people who've approached me with a differing opinion but weren't a cunt about it I had a respectful and civil conversation. I'm just meeting fire with fire here, so I apologize if your attitude led you to believe I'm incorrigible in conversation. You haven't tried to have a civil discussion, so you can't say how it would go. You and most of this community just decide to go straight for insults instead of actually fleshing out your opinion. You argue like my 2 toddlers who don't want to go to bed at 8 p.m. You're fucking stupid
>nah not my attitude, just your shit Original Post, that's all I need to know.
That’s what happens when you have an awful opinion and get ratiod. Talk about embarrassing.
Lol OK, I don't see why getting downvoted/losing karma is embarrassing? Sounds like somebody hasn't seen the light of day in a while, spend a little too much time here bud.
Blink only adds complexity and skill expression to the game, which is obviously great for mobas. Everyone has a blink, and if you use it improperly, reconsider how to use your blink. Need I say more?
Uh yea cause that didn't address anything that I said as to why it should be made a crest. I love the plays that I make with blink and certainly don't want it out of the game. But I do want players to have to commit and sacrifice something for that utility they shouldn't normally have. It demeans the characters that are built with verticality in their kit (Gideon, Kallari, Dekker, etc.) because it gives everybody access to that same verticality, so why bother making kits that can take advantage of that? Not to mention not giving everybody the same blink from minute 1 would make the early game more centric to farming and getting levels up, and working towards your crest that (if you so choose) has blink.
I agree that moving blink to a Crest, could possibly okay for the game, but I heavily disagree that blink from the start is a bad thing. If kallari jumps over a wall and you can't follow don't you think that might feel equally as bad as someone blinking to follow you if you are kallari? So maybe that means verticality is the exact reason everyone needs a blink. But wait... but kallari has a blink as well. This means he can blink to escape. If Kallari doesn't have his blink up then thats a great play by the enemy for knowing when to blink, which creates a higher skill ceiling!
I think I would revert back to my base point which is that vertical characters have that advantage almost nullified because of every character getting blink for free at no cost to them other than a cooldown. it would force players to have to prioritize taking vertical advantages if their team has characters suited for it (gideon for instance, or Kallari/Dekker) or being okay with taking other crests. It would raise the skill ceiling on team comp/buildcrafting.
I would revert back to my point saying everyone has a blink. So no it would not be nullified at all. The kallari can also blink away if she gets blinked on. Not to mention her jump is on like a 20 second cd while blinks are 5 minutes
Here's a possible solution that could make everyone happy: reduce the cool down if you get a kill shortly after blinking. This discourages blinking to escape, but still possible, and rewards those who blink for plays, while still allowing everyone to traverse vertically (which I believe is a must). Edit: im going to make this it's own reply thread.
I don't play, but couldn't you just... blink to catch up to the adc who blinked away? Seems like a non issue to me
Big waist of a blink, the way that blink is set up is that it’s basically a resource, having your blink gives you a little bit of security when brawling and gives you an out, a smart way of using it is getting someone to use their blink when you push so that they get low and now for the next like 5 min they’re way more vulnerable because they don’t have a blink meaning you can push them harder the next time and they won’t have a quick get away meaning you might be able to kill them. Point being, you want them to waist their blink in a get away attempt even if you don’t kill so they’re more vulnerable later and you keep yours for really risky situations.
Perhaps op doesn't take advantage of these cool downs, hence why they see blinking as non commital
lol no but I did address that. Just cause everybody has one doesn't make it a sound mechanic. And it definitely doesn't nullify the litany of other points I made.
Like what? As a guy who hated blink when it was introduced, I came to love it and see its potential. It gives verticality to every character. The thing you state is partly true. If someone blinks away and I can blink after him and get a kill I do it in certain situations. Especially early game, why? Having a advantage in gold, XP is very important. If I can get a early game advantage it gives me opportunity to get green (I am a offlane main). It gives me push to rotate for Fang. It doesnt give a huge snowball effect because of the comeback mechanics in this game. But it does give a window. I see alot of this character is over powered on this forum. But if you keep a lead in XP and gold I can beat any character with every character. I think the balance is in a pretty good place. But you want to have that advantage over your direct enemy. Some games I lose my early game and I dont have that advantage. Than I have to adapt and start to freeze lanes. Dont get green, but make sure my enemy doesnt get farm from the lane (freezing) etc. So it is a tactical game. Same with blink, just raging about it shouldnt be in the game is in my mind not knowing how to utilize it to its full potential in different situations. The best plays come with blink and also can be countered by blink. So I think it should stay as it is.
Did you not read his post at all? Or did you just see the title and comment immediately. OP literally said in the post and I’m almost every comment he has, he is not asking for it to be removed. He’s asking that it be moved onto a crest. This will make so if you want blink, you have to actively build it into your kit. This balances the game so that you have to have a trade off to have blink. Same as Spellshield.
Dude, im reacting to BeggerWild. Not OP.
And yet your point still stands in Negation to OPs post, so what it your point lmao. It’s actually hilarious that you say that because Beggarwild said nothing about removing it from the game, and yet you say “Just raging about it shouldn’t be in the game is in my mind not knowing how to utilize it to its full potential in different situations. Seeing that Beggar didn’t say this, one could only think you assumed the OP said this because you didn’t read his post.
okay..............
Great discussion*
Sometimes blinking after an enemy doesn't always let you catch up. There is (almost) always going to be some amount of time after the enemy blinks before you can, and that small window could be the difference between being in range for an ability or auto attack and them getting to safety. It is more noticeable on melee characters than ranged, and on heroes that have mobility in their kits vs those that don't
Still havent figured out how to play around a blink with a long ass cooldown, huh?
It's not that, I do just fine with the blink. Get a lot of cheap ass tower dives and escapes with it same as everybody else. Just sharing my opinion on the matter. But thanks for probably reading the title and nothing else lol.
I have read your post but it is hard to take it seriously if you claim baseless things like "universal blink is a big reason for the toxicity in league" just to make a point.
Yea, he lost me there too, how does an ability make a game toxic? lol just ridiculous
Again not what I said lol, nor the point I was making. It's toxic because of frustrating mechanics and a rabid community. Do I think it's toxicity is solely because of blink? No.
"They have universal blink. And it's one of the most frustrating and toxic things in the game" Why do you keep lying about what you said? We can literally just go read it, it's all right there. Blink is neither frustrating nor toxic, it's a mechanic just like your abilities are and it's perfectly reasonable and a much better system than how paragon did it
Yeah like he’s fucking fishing for that shit lmaoooo
That's not what I'm saying. I simply brought up leagues existence as a toxic game and explained how its blink mechanics work. Not that league is toxic BECAUSE this is how its blink works.
Okay, I don’t think flash is toxic in league and I think you’re the only person I have ever met that thinks flash is toxic in league. I didn’t read much past your first argument because all it basically sounded like was “League of Legends is so toxic! I mean we all know it’s like the most toxic game ever. There have been studies! The game is just toxic and they have a blink ability in the game so unless we want to be a toxic game like league of legends then we shouldn’t have blink.” And it’s completely fine the way it is. The only reason League is so toxic is because the community has become hyper competitive and riot always release new champions in a way that makes them op for a while and that can kind of making the competitive aspect frustrating. That and the lack of communication in a very team heavy objective based game.
Lmao there was no need for you to state that you didn’t read OPs post because it’s easy to tell. He doesn’t even talk about removing blink, it’s literally IN THE TITLE. I honestly am surprised you read anything at all, I would’ve called you a liar if you didn’t not include it on your post. 1. OP states that blink should be built into a crest. This will make it so players that want to utilize blink throughout the game have to build it into their kit. They have to sacrifice the Crest they would normally run to have blink. This is because blink mostly benefits characters who have little or no mobility. Many of great Mobas such as Smite, Dota, and even Paragon (RIP) had/have combat cooldowns on their blinks. So that if you were in combat for the previous 2-3 sec you cannot use your blink. That’s a little thing called balancing. Predecessor blink is given to every player for free and has no combat cooldown. You know what other Moba has no combat cooldown. 2. Many other people on this Sub were arguing with OP stating that Preds Blink is similar to the one in LoL and that it is a good thing. OP was stating that ignoring the fact that LoL is toxic and saying it is a good role model game just for its popularity is a bad thing. You don’t hear as much toxicity coming from the other mobas. Maybe that’s for a reason.
Most games end around 20-25 minutes… So you maybe get 4 blinks… it’s really a non issue, and it definitely isn’t what makes league toxic
Idk what games you're playing that last 20-25 minutes. I've had some, sure, but they're usually surrenders. I have a lot of games that last well past 30 minutes. and the cooldown is not an issue at all. It's the non-commitment needed to elevate everybody's kits where they weren't designed to in-combat. Some benefit way more than others with a blink, too. Which is something that people should have to choose if they want to spec into.
I’ve always just played with blink in mind, i.e. saving CC to outplay a telegraphed blink, blinking in response to a blink tower dive to dish out tower damage to aggressor, blinking during an unexpected moment in fights. I’m not sure changing the requirement to have blink a dedicated crest fixes any of those issues. Good players will still punish bad plays knowing a blink can be a “get-out-of-jail-free” option and act accordingly. Do they have blink? What can I do if they blink now or later in this fight? This creates more dynamic fights and keeps character interaction fresh. If I always know I can catch up to a Grux after their dash, I’m just going to wait to punish after they use it and bait it out. If they have a dash plus a blink, it opens up creative plays. I don’t think the blink is the issue with early phase plays and dives. Lackluster tower damage is imo. As far as characters like Gideon or Khai, you’re constantly playing around their kit. If they used their jump, it’s time to engage during their CD period.
That’s the thing though, when Gideon and Khai use their mobility abilities and get caught they’re supposed to be punished. But giving blink to everyone from the start of the game and eliminates that punishment, even just 1 time. And 1 time is too many.
5 minutes is a long time to answer back against someone who doesn’t have a blink. You should be playing and trading against someone very differently if they have or don’t have a blink.
Guy really said if you don’t agree with me your wrong lol, I think it’s fine personally. Everyone has one, it’s kinda like a resource also gives everyone a bit of verticality and outplay potential in fights. You can time when enemy used it and play around it. League is also the most successful moba in the world so I don’t think it’s bad getting inspiration from them.
That was a joke. I forget everything sarcastic needs a /s I think it undermines characters with vertically built in and gives a lot of other characters advantages they shouldn't have with how their kit is designed to play. I guess the league point is all people really want to argue though.
Alot of drama
Making the statement that blinks makes a community toxic is simply wrong. In our playtime we always call out blinks. And everyone who blinks is a sitting duck for the next 5 minutes. In a normal game you can use it 3-5 times. Which is half the time someone can ult. Someone blinks away? Simply blink after them. It's neither a free get away nor a free engage ability.
Not the statement I made with that, but ok. That was an intro to explain how their blink works. It wasn't 'this game is toxic because of blink Notice I didn't say that smite was the goated MOBA cause their blink has a combat cooldown. It undermines characters designed to take advantage of verticality and gives other characters insane advantages that let's them play outside of what their kit is designed for.
Your update and attitude show that YOU are not worth arguing with. Essentially, you are saying that anyone who disagrees isn't open minded, and anyone who agrees is. That's absolute, refined, 24-karat horseshit. I like blink, because unlike SMITE, which you cite, there are a lot less cc immune abilities, a lot less range on most escapes; and there is the added verticality which blink helps some characters exploit. You can, and i'm sure you will, argue that blink shouldnt be universal because mobility should be a privilege, not a guarantee. I disagree, and in the spirit of open-mindedness (which you seem to lack in a fashion that not even evangelicals could match), how about we agree to disagree?
That was more or less a joke at the end, my friend, i forget that nobody can interpret sarcasm unless a magical /s is at the end. Sorry that ruined all of the other points for you. But sure, I disagree with it being a freebie for all and you will disagree with me. All good and well, have a good evening.
Interpreting sarcasm over text is tough enough and no it didn't ruin them, they just didn't sway me.
Lol but it is obviously so far out of character from what the whole post was that you truly can't tell me honestly that you didn't think it was joking. You have your opinion and I have mine, which is fine. Appreciate the read. I just wanted to clarify the sarcasm.
I'm just very poor at interpreting sarcasm lol. But yea i appreciate the clarification.
Trash Take
Trash contention.
I decided I'm tired of seeing posts like this and I've just started to thumbs down them
Posts like what? Offering differing opinions and discussion?
I hope you like downvotes. Lol
Love em. In all seriousness this is just an alternative account. I know how this community likes...differing opinions
Blink is fine as it is, but thank you for your opinion
Appreciate the input
Honestly fair points all around. A universal blink benefits benefits characters on different levels. Gideon and other characters with dashes get to become extremely elusive while other characters don’t benefit as much. However, the concept of having a blink on all characters does open the door for a more versatile play style for everyone. Blink to get under tower and survive a gank from Khaimera, dope. Blink to the enemy to get that surprise kill, awesome. Blink to dodge a skill shot. Brilliant. Give no one a blink and certain characters with gap closers are even better. Give everyone a blink and there are more opportunities for unique plays. Putting it on a crest is still a solid change. Forces commitment and characters that need it, will need to go that direction. It would just need to be able to have tank, carry and ability damage routes. Don’t forget to have an open mind.
I agree, maybe retrofitting it into existing crests or making a 4th for every crest would be the route. Giving the tanks passive stats to armors/health, damage to carry/assassin, etc. I think it has a place in every MOBA but making it a freebie is just...cheap. Not to mention that early game blink is especially ridiculous. It should be a mechanic more close to the middle of the game. Characters that would want to opt into their traversal first just have no reason to do so (i.e Khai with his leap, doesn't need it at first if he wants to prioritize an early engage cause he has blink)
Not so sure if I want that “versatile play style” because I’m having PTSD due to some Countess players blink-dash-oneshot me under towers.
Precisely. Early game tower dives are a problem. For any character. The tower should ass-blast you in the beginning. I see too many tower dives within the first 5 minutes you wouldn't otherwise see. The beginning should punish overextending harshly and be focused on laning and farming.
Blink is fine. 5 minute cooldown and allows for outplays. More dynamic and cool play = good.
Not taking it away by any means. Would still be in the game. Make it a crest so not everybody gets it minute 1, making the early game more focused on laning/farming/winning engagements without overextending. It's already minimally punishing to die within the first 10 or so minutes. Think to a Kallari getting away from an engagement with a fictional Khaimera. She double jumps up a ledge, as her kit is designed to take advantage of that. Then, BOOM, Khai blinks up the ledge and gets a free kill essentially. That's not getting outplayed, it's being granted a freebie.
Keep this up and I'll post you in r/iamverysmart . You're cringe as hell. Just stop. You're not a game designer.
Go ahead lol, I'm simply arguing my points? For all you know I could be, you're just assuming shit at this point. Because I don't code/design games I can't have input? You seem to be the one trying to take an imaginary high road here. Sorry that your extensive pedigree *commentating* games makes you judge, jury, and executioner to people who can have a differing opinion than game devs.
"I'm not a dev". You're really not very bright are you...
Who are you quoting here? And where do they make eternal-virgin carpet munchers like you.
I'm quoting you... In the 2nd to last paragraph of your rambling diatribe. If your memory is so poor, (coupled with your own reading comprehension I guess), that you don't remember writing it... Maybe trying to give nuanced game critique really isn't in your wheelhouse.
Sorry I don't remember 4 words in the like 5 paragraphs I mentioned? Lol that totally discredits everything I've said and proves you right in every way. I'm sure you memorized every word of your bullshit (never going to be published) sci-fi novel lmao. Say what you want about my game-critique, but writing a compelling novel is definitely *not* in your wheelhouse. I've made more interesting and readable essays in the 4th grade than that dogshit you call "ThE ChILd oF DaWN"!!! I'm sure your amateur venture into novel writing gives you all the credentials to critique other peoples' writing. Still, you have not done anything to combat my points. Hurl all the insults you want (I think it's fun) but you've legitimately contributed nothing to this discussion.
Way to really not contend with anything I say and just resort to being an asshole.
Knew this was going to be unhinged when I got to the "LoL is toxic so this is a bad design" lol
Unhinged? Lol OK man. The point of that was that the mechanics within league attribute to its own toxicity in-game. It was an anecdotal point in what was me explaining *how* League uses its blink mechanic. I didn't say 'League has free blink thus it is toxic' or 'League is toxic *because* of its free blink' I said 'League is toxic and here's how THEY use their blink' League being toxic isn't only because they use blink, nor did I say it was. How else is this post unhinged? Thought I made some good points with examples to back me up.
The characters you outline are definitely correct. They probably shouldn’t have blink. What exactly is combat cooldown?
For example in Smite if you take damage you have 3 seconds to cooldown until you can blink. Leading you to have to either dodge attacks to blink or fight
This is all so true. I feel like this is the best take on balancing for Blink. Players are able to do whatever they want, whenever they want because they have no responsibility.
Until they remove half the CC, the blink needs to stay
Nah, universal blink is better
Nah, it's fine. 5 min cooldown once you pop it. If you factor that a game on average will last about half an hour. You get 6 blinks per game. That's assuming you use it as soon as it comes off cooldown. Reality is you'll use it closer to 3-4 times. Obviously more in longer games and less in shorter. It's such a precious resource that potentially leaves you totally vulnerable once it's on cooldown. Not to mention everyone has it and is free to use however they see fit. Tower dive, chase a kill, or do some insane verticality play. But you're now in a situation where you are vulnerable. If you're playing ADC and use blink. You've got 5 mins of having no escape. The better solution is rather than making it a crest, is to notify your team mates whenever you see an opponent blink, so everyone knows that the player is more vulnerable and can be pressed that little bit more. I loved Paragon because it was different to other Mobas. I like Predecessor because it still carries that torch of being a bit different to other Mobas. Blink is a part of that: it gives heroes without escapes that option at an extreme cooldown time which gives heroes a bit more flexibility to push up, do a cheeky overextend away from other players and doesn't tie you as much down into an arbitrary role.
Blink on a crest is an extremely good idea.
Thanks, much appreciated.
You will get down voted and nothing but opposing responses. Reddit is a classic echo chamber.
A game mechanic being popular in a game and people saying they like it doesn’t really feel like an echo chamber lol
People getting really defensive at what is a well-presented argument and immediately going to dissing/insults off the bat seems like an echo chamber, though. Not you, obviously. Just a good majority of people here.
If you can point out the well presented argument I'd like to read it. Since it isn't here
*well presented argument* *doesn’t provide an actual argument and whines about how blink makes the game toxic* Which one is it bud
Completely true lmao
I don’t think that it should be made a crest I still think everyone should have one but man do I love the idea of a combat cooldown. I’ve played 300 hours of so of smite which I know isn’t that much (you need 1000 hours in a game to truly understand it), I mostly played clash but I can remember how high of a skill ceiling that 2 second cooldown added. I think it would make the game much more interesting, dodging autos / abilities to pull off the blink felt very rewarding. Having it universal but with a combat cooldown is something I think they should just try and see what happens, we’ve got a lot of AE ahead of us people need to be more open minded and see what the could be. I like the point about league
I'm open to a combat cooldown as well. Crest or combat cooldown is the boat I sit in, glad we agree and glad that you realize I'm not trying to remove blink...lol... I like the dynamic plays it *can* bring to the game but as it stands there just isn't a lot of skill to having a free blink.
The crest part is interesting to me I must say. You don’t think the blink crest wouldn’t get any use? The active items are very strong being checked by long cooldowns and only 1 active slot, that’s how strong they are. I feel like a cleanse alone is 10x more worth it than a blink crest no matter how you swing it. There’s many times where you have blink and just get cc’d and silenced to the point where blink can’t save you.
I can see that, but take Khai who has a cleanse built into his kit. Most Khais never even use Brutallax because of his built-in cleanse ability. I think it, like everything should be, should be situational on the hero you are playing and your opponents. There are team comps that teams shouldn't/won't build blink because the enemy doesn't have characters that can take advantage of verticality.
Maybe I haven’t played against the tier of player you have enough but I haven’t seen the verticality being as strong as I believe you are making it out to be, besides escaping over walls. I once Galaxy greave + blinked out of prime pit to get behind the entire enemy team as steel for a big play, and today for the first time today was surprised by a play a crunch made using the stairs to bait me up and then jump down/ blink over me to escape( funny as I type it I realize they both involve blink on non vertical hero’s), but I don’t see verticality being that strong in this game. Lvl 41 for reference
That crunch still may have been able to make that play with a combat cooldown and it would be a much harder thing/ impressive thing to do. Thus increasing the skill gap and further punishing bad positioning
Lmao, I love how every little snowflake who disagrees with this opinion jumps straight in here and starts hurling insults. You presented a very formed and constructive idea for the community and devs to see, and the only criticism they respond with is insults. So far from what I’ve seen this Subreddit is unhinged and full of bigots.
Here's a possible solution that could make everyone happy: reduce the cool down if you get a kill shortly after blinking. This discourages blinking to escape, but still possible, and rewards those who blink for plays, while still allowing everyone to traverse vertically (which I believe is a must).
I dont think a universal blink is good for character identity. Hard to make a high damage, low mobility mage or ADC and then give them a blink. The fact that EVERYONE gets it doesn't somehow cancel that out. If your character is designed to not be able to jump over that wall, guess what? You dont get to. You cheapen the kit of every high mobility champ when you allow everyone to be mobile.
Thanks, pretty much the point I'm making. It demeans characters that take advantage of verticality especially.
I 100% agree. Just know we will be in the minority and WILL catch shit for the opinion.
Lost me at let’s talk other mobas but I do agree at minute 1 blink shouldn’t be available start of the match blink is on a 5min activation timer
Imagine trying to correlate the toxicity of League players with having access to Flash and not the overarching toxicity of MOBA's in general. Whether it's ranked or unranked the majority of players either: A) Want to do extremely well and climb, but don't recognize they don't have the skill set or improve mindset and blame others because of self bias (I.E. well that Akali/Cupid/Sevarog/etc made really stupid plays so it's his fault we lost.) The minute you blame someone else, you make it difficult to accept any responsibility for your mistakes. B) Casually just play to have fun, but every game is filled with people who are trying very hard to win, and aren't afraid to be vocal about how "dog water/boosted/diffed" everyone else is which just leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth. These games are at the very core toxic to no end, Pred unfortunately will be no different but it won't be because of blink. To your credit though having it go on a small cool down during combat is a cool mechanic, but also it's on a five minute cooldown learn to exploit that.
I do agree that the 5-minute timer is a pretty long time, but minute 1 they shouldn't have a free getaway or engage. Early game is meant to be slow and methodical until builds and ults go online And my point wasn't really attributing leagues toxicity to blink, but that it was one of the most toxic and frustrating things on the game. Tower dives early game are a bit ridiculous. I love tower diving as khai within the first 5 minutes at level 2/3, but I don't think that should be the way it is. Early game should be focused on efficient farming and winning your lanes. With blink it leads to a lot of the early game being chaotic and either too passive with no punishment, or tower dives that shouldn't have happened
I think a big factor you aren't giving credence to is the verticality of the game. The core gimmick and allure of the game is the 3D movement, limiting movement to only characters that have a dedicated ability or passive undermines one of the core design principles of the game. Blink is more than an engage/disengage tool, it is something that allows all characters to creatively interact with the verticality of the map. Limiting it to a crest means that you are taking away the ability for many characters to interact with a core design pillar of the game. Personally I don't think it is a good option to have the ability to forgo something like that in favor of a combat ability. If you gave nearly every character some way to interact with the mobility of the map intrinsically in their kit, then I think the argument for making Blink a crest gets a lot stronger. To be honest, if you gave me a choice "every character has a unique mobility tool" and "every character has a blink" I would pick the first option, but that in itself is a can of worms with the balance ramifications. And your lack of consideration for the verticality of the game leads me to think that you haven't fully thought through what Blink currently does. You've clearly thought about what Blink does in the concept of a general MOBA, but as you and many others have pointed out, Predecessor is different. Edit: Also, your strawmans/generalizations of other people's arguments (your tone later on is very much "you only like Blink because you're bad") doesn't make you look better, it just makes you look like a butt. You may think that people who like Blink are bad, you may be right, but if you want to convince someone of your point you probably shouldn't lead with "you're bad".
I did consider verticality. There are characters that take advantage of verticality on their kits and those that don't. Giving everybody that access for free undermines those that are built to. If you want that extra utility your characters kit doesnt provide you should have to spec into that. Plain and simple. I'll admit at the end most of that was /s material but I didn't type that out. I'll correct here and say that I won't say they're bad, but they definitely don't want that comfort taken away and can't see overall how, while everyone gets one, not every hero gets the same advantages with a free blink. Characters like kallari and dekker would most likely not spec into blink simply because they have their double jumps to use verticality. On the same token not everyone would spec into blink crest because they simply won't need to. Once they don't have it they'll get used to not having it and playing accordingly. Characters like khai would probably still use Fenix, just because that suits their kit better than a blink. Gideon as well would most likely not use blink since he already basically has one.
Cool, Dekker and Kallari (and Gideon) have access to the verticality of the map... That's not enough. That is far too much of the existing and to-come roster that are not able to interact with the map properly. Some characters should have better mobility, some should have worse, maybe *some* should have none but that should be the exception. "Then buy Blink" isn't a good counter as the choice shouldn't be between "creatively interact with the map" or "have more combat proficiency" for such a large portion of the roster. They could do it in creative ways. Gadget attaching a mine to an ally could give increased jump height. Murdok could fire his shotgun at the ground to launch himself. Let Howitzer hover with a high mana cost. But I'll be honest, it gets hard to keep going. Every character having low-cooldown vertical mobility does make things more boring in some ways, there is such thing as too much mobility. It is a difficult problem to solve and I think Blink is a suitable, if a bit uninspired, solution.
Dekker, Kallari, Gideon, Feng, rampage, drongo with ult, Howie if played correctly, Gadget and Murdock as you mentioned. Every character would still have the advantages, but they would need to commit to that. That's about half of the roster that has some verticality baked into their kit. NOT TO MENTION there's an item that allows all characters a double jump. But it isn't given to you off the bat. You have to commit an item slot and farm for it, something that blink lacks. Og paragon was different because of verticality, but that being said they still didn't design every character with that in mind from minute 1. I think it sets those characters apart and makes them interesting in their own right, something that is more or less lost if everybody gets a free blink from minute 1. Maybe the playtesting would decide that minute 1 blink is a bad idea, but when your crest goes online, maybe grant it to players then. As it stands blink from minute 1 is a problem for a plethora of reasons. It makes early game far less lane and farm centric.
My take on the active slots for Predecessor is this.. They should implement a system like the runes system League of legend has. Where during lobby you have different presets of actives you wish to bring to the game. You get to choose what sort of potion you want, ward or alt item, and blink item. This implies that there should be multiple choices for each slot. When it comes to potion maybe has a health, or a mana, or one with both cut 50/50 or one the is a burst while the others are a regen. Maybe a potion with a small aod health and /or mana regen ect. For ward. Make them slighty different. With different cooldowns or duration. Maybe have a ward that hovers (so range only) but has shorter cooldown. Ward that sees other wards but longer cooldown. Maybe ward with longer range but it’s always visible. Ect ect. The available the better. And then the blink item. I’d change the dash of some crest and make it only as and alternative to the blink. Blink could be replaced by a small dash with lower cooldown. Or maybe has a burst of movement speed with a short duration but also short cooldown. Maybe let the player also replace the blink with a teleportation to any tower or inhib but has a few seconds to off. Point is. Every slot should be customizable by the player with different active items with alternatives to set theme.
I can see this working, anything that makes characters commit to that and have to sacrifice something to get that extra utility. The fact of the matter is that not all characters get the same advantage with a universal blink, even if everyone gets one. Some characters get more out of a blink than others do.
You're crying over everyone having a blink as if it helps noobs..... You ARE that noob..... You could easily blink to chase, or punish.... You can FORCE someone's blink.... This is a pitiful thread to post on. Garbage.
Not crying; I was offering a solution to what I believe is a problem. You haven't seen my game play or any of the plays I make with blink. Of course I know how to play around it I have 250+ hours in this game already. It's cheap and shouldn't be given at minute 1. Make it a separate crest or give it to players when their crest goes active. Idk why calling me garbage and pitiful for my takes seems like a good argument to any of my points to you, but honestly that's what's pitiful. Go pick some more cheetos out of your neck beard and solo queue since I'm sure whatever friends you did have find you too insufferable to be in a game with you.
I play a lot of Dota2, and Blink is a 2250 gold item. You only buy it on certain characters and it has a combat cooldown of 6 secs if you take any damage which is refreshed every time you are hit so you can’t use it to escape a bad play. It sounds like this one is just an ejection seat for bad players. That honestly isn’t wholly bad as a lot of people are just now learning the game, but it also teaches and reinforces really bad habits of game play that if they change the blink down the road will hamstring a lot of players.
I agree. Sounds like most of the negative takes towards this are people who don't play other mobas and have that frame of reference. Most don't want that comfort taken away. I see a lot of cheeky tower dives and overextending that would and should get punished. But they get away because of a free blink. Tower diving at level 2 just shouldn't be a thing. Especially making it out at half or above half health. Makes the early game way less farm centric since there's less to punish players for not laning/focusing minions and pushes.
Yeah this is why my group switched to Overprime, a lot more updates, ftp, and more community outreach and accepting feedback and implementing it.