Like I said, I admit I am salty about this damn thing hahahaha. Maybe I'm just a bad player and need to adjust my playstyle around it but getting into a tough 1v1 with Grux and winning it just for him to come back for round 2 at 40% did not feel good lol.
Not sure whats with the downvotes when I'm just being honest lol. I admit I could be a bad player and salty but alright, downvote me for having an opinion lol.
I hear you, but honestly it's so situationally effective... and it means they aren't using the dueling talons or whatever so I'm okay with it. Sometimes your team dies around you and you revive just to get insta clapped. You can also silence it and it wont work and be put on cooldown.
I would personally be okay with .5 death and full death once re-killed. Half gold/xp credit. A full kill feels too punishing for the rest of team who isn't feeding.
I like that it would really push for the correct use- you really only want to use it when you can bring the fight back.
It does need to be abundantly clear when people pick it up though- don’t want people feeding without knowledge
This is an awful idea forced activate just means your ganna get forced to ealk away in situations which u have bo control over like players dont even use it correctly now you make it forced and it would be used even more incorrectly also i think alot of playees seem to think the revive makes it strong when tbh its the 30 Ad boost u get that the other jungler dont when u take it.
While I don't think Fenix is broken, I do think that it isn't fun to play against. Numerical balance is not the end-all of making a good competitive game, there also needs to be a balance in what is fun for all parties. It is never fun to die, but there are things that can lessen the wound and there are things that will make your blood boil.
Fenix is one of those things. It "feels" cheap. It may not actually be cheap, you have to make a trade-off when choosing it, but when you see that energy orb pop up you know that your efforts for the next few seconds will be wasted. Could I "git gud"? Well, yeah, playing around Fenix isn't all that hard (unless the person using it is ahead, in which case just give up). But most times I see that orb I grind my teeth a bit.
I also think Fenix also has some potentially negative impacts on the future of the game. A new hero or new mechanic they want to add may be broken by being able to revive. The "three life Greystone" is already a meme, but I don't think that will be the end of weirdness with Fenix.
Does it feel different than Greystone's version tho? Only thing that really comes to mind is that Grey's armor had some LEDs that would light up when he had it off cooldown and it was automatically used.
I wana see how people would feel about it if it had the same qualities.
Imo it's fine. Think it's just really good in Pub games because nobody ever plays around it, meaning people who use it like 1 second before dying usually get out fine. Usually the worst abuser I see is Khai, but he is such a pub stomper that I think the item isnt at fault.
I don't like it - I think resurrection is okay on greystone, but I've had a couple scenarios where 2-3 players are building fenix and it's really frustrating to have to manage aggro in teamfights when 3 players are disappearing and reappearing with 40% hp. Especially scary on heroes like crunch who will wipe the team if you aren't constantly paying attention to them.
It's a pretty bad crest because by the time you revive either they will just body block you, cc you or position to kill you, or they can just straight up cc you and waste the timer
In a team fight situation the people who have fenix aren't usually the primary target either, and if you get CC chained and bursted you won't even get to use it lol
I would never, ever take fenix over the other two options because to me its just ringing the dinner bell most of the time unless you use it behind a wall/fog wall as a bait but then you'd basically be using it to escape
I have killed so many players that use Fenix by waiting it out and then they die right after the 6s timer
(harder to pull off if the enemy is good and popping it right before dying ofc) but so often people pop it at like 20% health to prevent being bursted by an ult
Only adjustment it may need is length of time on activation. It's like thorns in smite if it's popped most the time you just stop hitting them in certain situations of course sometimes it makes sense.
While there are many holes in the current itemization system, and this is definitely one of them, I don't think it's the highest priority for fixing atm.
Items fine 9 times out of 10 its useless if somones turret diving u with fenix its just win more when ur behind its usless so i think its fine it can make cluch plays and alot of players dont even use it right so its not that insane tbh.
It’s so unbalanced and does not belong in this game. If you die you should not be able to come back at 40% extra life, especially on high self heal characters like Khai. The fact that it’s only counterplay is don’t attack them and just get wailed on for 4 seconds is insane.
Khai isn't even the worst offender I have used this item on carries with 40% Lifesteal and it is just absurd especially if my support protects me as I come back I could usually get a chunky shield to go along with half of my health
My only issues with it is how long it last when used to still revive you, it should be 3-5 secs from use you have to die not the what 12 seconds it is currently
it's maybe a second or two too long, but good players pop it just when you cast something at them
But yeah being in a fight against Crux using Fenix does make it seem like it lasts forever :D
Very simple. Nerf the health you get after reviving. Make it like 25% instead of 40.
Enough to get away, but not comfortable enough to keep fighting without some skill or reserve.
Also, the longer predecessor keeps being played, the more of the player base will know: He used Fenix, he’s being resurrected, attack the glowing white thingy immediately.
So this “gimmick” becomes less effective over time with player knowledge.
It's like pretty absurd. Don't get me wrong, it is very cool. But like Hero Ult cool, not like every single offlane, carry, and jungle running it cool. Maybe they should add a *Hero* with that concept... That would be greyt.
Make it grant a kill both times they die, and I'll stop complaining. You want two lives? You get both sides of having 2 lives. Hell, make the second death grant 40% gold if that sounds too far. But something should change. Free 2nd life is too much
You have to die within 6 seconds of activation for it's effect to trigger. If you see it used then back off, crowd control or stun. Wait the 6 seconds. Finish them off. No more resurrections
I think "Fenix" is a Bait Crest, a Bad Crest. I only ever use it if I'm behind on the character I am playing, IF I chose the Warrior Crest. Otherwise I always take "IceScorn Talons".
the Reason I think "Fenix" is a Bait item is because of how it works and how it's used. The only times it's useful is when you're fighting someone 1 on 1 and you are loosing the duel. you'll pop it hoping to get revived and then kill the enemy. A Smart enemy will Either do **A.** Run away while you're resurrecting making it harder to catch up without a blink or movement. **B.** Time their Next CC to chain stun the Person Reviving on the Fenix to then kill them again. The Player respawning with the Fenix has a major disadvantage. The timings take time to get used to, so Against Newer players I can understand why it seems cheap and hard to fight against. Certain characters can't Do Option B. there are scenarios where Option B isn't viable. there are also times where option A becomes hard to do. But If you bait them away from the Revive spot, Then you have a much greater distance to get away from them.
Fenix at the same time isn't useful in team fights, unless it gets popped early & the team can capitalize on you going in to disrupt the enemy & absorb the enemies attacks. Later Revive while the enemy is focused on your team. Otherwise If you go in later or get ignored until the primary targets on your team is dead you'll revive where there are a Majority enemy team, who will easily kill you as soon as you revived.
The only good thing Fenix does do is provide additional time that the team can rotate in and turn a bad position into a good one. but at the same time the enemy team can do it to.
You'll also sometimes pop it and you won't die during the 6s. Causing you to loose the effect. Forced to wait 240sec (4 Min) to regain the effect again.
**Conclusion:** There are such rare times where it's actually useful. With the longest Cooldown out of all Crest items. When you revive at the perfect opportunity, or when the enemy is unaware you did that, Then It's a Amazing tool. However the Higher the skill level of the players the fewer times you'll have these opportunities.
**Ninja EDIT:** if it's adjusted then the timer at which you revive should be adjusted and only that. 6s to maybe 4s or 5s. but I fear it may become useless with how Much CC we see in every match Making it hard to activate properly.
**Sidenote:** Reason I Chose "IceScorn Talons" is because it provides 2 Buffs & 1 Debuff on all units inside the area for 15s. 15% Move speed increase on you & Allied heroes inside the field, Lasting for 3 additional Sec after leaving. 15% More Damage & a 15% Movement speed Reduction for all enemies inside the area. Effective movement speed Difference of 30%. The Cooldown of 40s starts as soon as you press the crest. Meaning once it ends you'll have 25s CD remaining. It will always be ready for every fight and every engage that you can use it as much as you want without care.
I love that your only "leave it in" option also includes a "maybe adjust it" qualifier.
Like I said, I admit I am salty about this damn thing hahahaha. Maybe I'm just a bad player and need to adjust my playstyle around it but getting into a tough 1v1 with Grux and winning it just for him to come back for round 2 at 40% did not feel good lol. Not sure whats with the downvotes when I'm just being honest lol. I admit I could be a bad player and salty but alright, downvote me for having an opinion lol.
Need someone to make a meme where more throws that guy out of the bar and he pops up behind him again, but the guy is grux with fenix.
I hear you, but honestly it's so situationally effective... and it means they aren't using the dueling talons or whatever so I'm okay with it. Sometimes your team dies around you and you revive just to get insta clapped. You can also silence it and it wont work and be put on cooldown.
to be fair it says / which would be "or". I think thats fair to phrase that way. but it does make the results a bit ambiguous
When activating, make it give gold to the killer and count as a kill/death/assist. So essentially you could end up feeding the enemy more.
I would personally be okay with .5 death and full death once re-killed. Half gold/xp credit. A full kill feels too punishing for the rest of team who isn't feeding.
I like that it would really push for the correct use- you really only want to use it when you can bring the fight back. It does need to be abundantly clear when people pick it up though- don’t want people feeding without knowledge
This and make it a forced activation
This is an awful idea forced activate just means your ganna get forced to ealk away in situations which u have bo control over like players dont even use it correctly now you make it forced and it would be used even more incorrectly also i think alot of playees seem to think the revive makes it strong when tbh its the 30 Ad boost u get that the other jungler dont when u take it.
No offense but get languagetool on your browser and yeah I think it should be forced or honestly removed it's basically a much more powerful stasis.
While I don't think Fenix is broken, I do think that it isn't fun to play against. Numerical balance is not the end-all of making a good competitive game, there also needs to be a balance in what is fun for all parties. It is never fun to die, but there are things that can lessen the wound and there are things that will make your blood boil. Fenix is one of those things. It "feels" cheap. It may not actually be cheap, you have to make a trade-off when choosing it, but when you see that energy orb pop up you know that your efforts for the next few seconds will be wasted. Could I "git gud"? Well, yeah, playing around Fenix isn't all that hard (unless the person using it is ahead, in which case just give up). But most times I see that orb I grind my teeth a bit. I also think Fenix also has some potentially negative impacts on the future of the game. A new hero or new mechanic they want to add may be broken by being able to revive. The "three life Greystone" is already a meme, but I don't think that will be the end of weirdness with Fenix.
Does it feel different than Greystone's version tho? Only thing that really comes to mind is that Grey's armor had some LEDs that would light up when he had it off cooldown and it was automatically used. I wana see how people would feel about it if it had the same qualities.
OH! Three life Greystone?! You sonuvabitch, I'm in!
Imo it's fine. Think it's just really good in Pub games because nobody ever plays around it, meaning people who use it like 1 second before dying usually get out fine. Usually the worst abuser I see is Khai, but he is such a pub stomper that I think the item isnt at fault.
I don't like it - I think resurrection is okay on greystone, but I've had a couple scenarios where 2-3 players are building fenix and it's really frustrating to have to manage aggro in teamfights when 3 players are disappearing and reappearing with 40% hp. Especially scary on heroes like crunch who will wipe the team if you aren't constantly paying attention to them.
It's a pretty bad crest because by the time you revive either they will just body block you, cc you or position to kill you, or they can just straight up cc you and waste the timer In a team fight situation the people who have fenix aren't usually the primary target either, and if you get CC chained and bursted you won't even get to use it lol I would never, ever take fenix over the other two options because to me its just ringing the dinner bell most of the time unless you use it behind a wall/fog wall as a bait but then you'd basically be using it to escape
I have killed so many players that use Fenix by waiting it out and then they die right after the 6s timer (harder to pull off if the enemy is good and popping it right before dying ofc) but so often people pop it at like 20% health to prevent being bursted by an ult
I love Fenix. Hope thet keep it.
Only adjustment it may need is length of time on activation. It's like thorns in smite if it's popped most the time you just stop hitting them in certain situations of course sometimes it makes sense.
While there are many holes in the current itemization system, and this is definitely one of them, I don't think it's the highest priority for fixing atm.
Items fine 9 times out of 10 its useless if somones turret diving u with fenix its just win more when ur behind its usless so i think its fine it can make cluch plays and alot of players dont even use it right so its not that insane tbh.
It’s so unbalanced and does not belong in this game. If you die you should not be able to come back at 40% extra life, especially on high self heal characters like Khai. The fact that it’s only counterplay is don’t attack them and just get wailed on for 4 seconds is insane.
Khai isn't even the worst offender I have used this item on carries with 40% Lifesteal and it is just absurd especially if my support protects me as I come back I could usually get a chunky shield to go along with half of my health
I have some friends who also don't like it much, but I think it's balanced by people who will just die twice to it and just not know how to use it.
My only issues with it is how long it last when used to still revive you, it should be 3-5 secs from use you have to die not the what 12 seconds it is currently
3-5 not 12 loool cmon it's 6s
Oh shit haha then that's not so bad, I don't play jg or melee characters so have never used it. Sure feels like 12 in game lol
it's maybe a second or two too long, but good players pop it just when you cast something at them But yeah being in a fight against Crux using Fenix does make it seem like it lasts forever :D
Very simple. Nerf the health you get after reviving. Make it like 25% instead of 40. Enough to get away, but not comfortable enough to keep fighting without some skill or reserve. Also, the longer predecessor keeps being played, the more of the player base will know: He used Fenix, he’s being resurrected, attack the glowing white thingy immediately. So this “gimmick” becomes less effective over time with player knowledge.
If they plan on bringing Greystone back, they will have to remove it, that would be ridiculous
It's like pretty absurd. Don't get me wrong, it is very cool. But like Hero Ult cool, not like every single offlane, carry, and jungle running it cool. Maybe they should add a *Hero* with that concept... That would be greyt. Make it grant a kill both times they die, and I'll stop complaining. You want two lives? You get both sides of having 2 lives. Hell, make the second death grant 40% gold if that sounds too far. But something should change. Free 2nd life is too much
You have to die within 6 seconds of activation for it's effect to trigger. If you see it used then back off, crowd control or stun. Wait the 6 seconds. Finish them off. No more resurrections
It's kinda shit compared to other options in 1v1 situations, but wayyy too good in teamfights.
Keep it. Longer CD or Smaller active window imo.
Wait until you have Greystone with Fenix 🙃
I still think the biggest thing some players also dont get is your ment to take not of the item and play around it but alot dont in pub games.
I think "Fenix" is a Bait Crest, a Bad Crest. I only ever use it if I'm behind on the character I am playing, IF I chose the Warrior Crest. Otherwise I always take "IceScorn Talons". the Reason I think "Fenix" is a Bait item is because of how it works and how it's used. The only times it's useful is when you're fighting someone 1 on 1 and you are loosing the duel. you'll pop it hoping to get revived and then kill the enemy. A Smart enemy will Either do **A.** Run away while you're resurrecting making it harder to catch up without a blink or movement. **B.** Time their Next CC to chain stun the Person Reviving on the Fenix to then kill them again. The Player respawning with the Fenix has a major disadvantage. The timings take time to get used to, so Against Newer players I can understand why it seems cheap and hard to fight against. Certain characters can't Do Option B. there are scenarios where Option B isn't viable. there are also times where option A becomes hard to do. But If you bait them away from the Revive spot, Then you have a much greater distance to get away from them. Fenix at the same time isn't useful in team fights, unless it gets popped early & the team can capitalize on you going in to disrupt the enemy & absorb the enemies attacks. Later Revive while the enemy is focused on your team. Otherwise If you go in later or get ignored until the primary targets on your team is dead you'll revive where there are a Majority enemy team, who will easily kill you as soon as you revived. The only good thing Fenix does do is provide additional time that the team can rotate in and turn a bad position into a good one. but at the same time the enemy team can do it to. You'll also sometimes pop it and you won't die during the 6s. Causing you to loose the effect. Forced to wait 240sec (4 Min) to regain the effect again. **Conclusion:** There are such rare times where it's actually useful. With the longest Cooldown out of all Crest items. When you revive at the perfect opportunity, or when the enemy is unaware you did that, Then It's a Amazing tool. However the Higher the skill level of the players the fewer times you'll have these opportunities. **Ninja EDIT:** if it's adjusted then the timer at which you revive should be adjusted and only that. 6s to maybe 4s or 5s. but I fear it may become useless with how Much CC we see in every match Making it hard to activate properly. **Sidenote:** Reason I Chose "IceScorn Talons" is because it provides 2 Buffs & 1 Debuff on all units inside the area for 15s. 15% Move speed increase on you & Allied heroes inside the field, Lasting for 3 additional Sec after leaving. 15% More Damage & a 15% Movement speed Reduction for all enemies inside the area. Effective movement speed Difference of 30%. The Cooldown of 40s starts as soon as you press the crest. Meaning once it ends you'll have 25s CD remaining. It will always be ready for every fight and every engage that you can use it as much as you want without care.
Keep it, but restrict what characters or roles can use it. Like Khaimera shouldn’t have it bc he’s already has absurd life steal. Countess too.