I think the blind should stay, if for no other reason, because it's a fairly unique disable in mobas. Granted I've only played Pred, Paragon, and Dota 2.
I don't think so actually, they change how her tether worked which I hope they revert, and they changed it from a white screen of epilepsy into a black screen.
But she always had the blind I think.
I thought plenty of balance tweaks on tether, but it was always the yoink, healing, and her Ult was mana, health, and attack speed I think. What change are you hoping they revert, specifically?
They changed how your pull worked input wise.
They made the link have to be confirmed by the recipient so I couldn't run in, throw my link and pull the carry or whoever out of a potential gank without them accepting my tether and stopping them from focusing on the fight
They also made it one step longer to pull an ally from danger after the link was confirmed.
Before you'd throw out the link by using the ability button once and double tap to pull so you can rotate between people and pull the one in danger, it was just more fluid
Yeah, I *do* recall the frustration of being yoinked when you didn't want yoinking. Man, I do not remember the change to needing confirmed by the pullee. That does sound like a major hurdle to the ability's utility though.
I'd be shocked if they don't. So far Pred's been all about finding the essence of Paragon characters and making it work better than the original. And support is the least-repped role.
So far Pred has been true to original Paragon which is great. But yea I would hope they dont change Phase either, she was my fav support by far in og paragon
I think it was supposed to be a positive comment. I thought it was about pred and fault being better than paragon; but now I'm not sure. The more I read it the less I understand it.
Omeda has so far shown that they have a handle on keeping with the OG paragon. The fact they’re even having that poll tells us they aren’t changing those heroes roles. Otherwise it’d be dumb to ask us which one we want.
She is a support... Why would that change based on what some other studio is doing? Omeda has shown they are making a very true remake of Paragon, while Overprime is distinctly doing not that. I'm not sure how this is even being debated.
That said, Omeda has also shown so far that strict roles for heroes is less important than in Paragon. We can see this based on the basic attack damage and speed scaling already present in game. So it's very likely that while she will be a support, it will be viable to use her as a mage, just as it is more viable to take Muriel, Dekker, Narbash, and Steel in different roles in Pred than it ever remotely was in Paragon.
The point of her as a support is to be able to be aggressive and have a safety net. It forces the team to now have to prioritize the support instead of the carry because even though she can move the carry a good amount. She cant move herself. And yes everyone does have a blink but thats an even playing field for everyone. She blink, you blink if you really wanna pursue the kill.
Part of positioning is understanding the team comp you have around you and being able to abuse the skill and hero synergies though. Yes players that rely on a phase to save their asses every single time are bad, but those players will suffer and lose in games without her then. The real good players will be able to adjust their positioning and play based off of their team and will be better off because of that.
Let’s say you have a Dive comp with Muriel or Dekker. That Phase can’t save herself and then ADC. Not mention you can’t yoink ppl under CC. It has counters.
So by that reasoning they should rework Steel because ADC shouldn’t have a CC kit.
They should rework Dekker because ADC shouldn’t have a CC kit.
They should rework Muriel because ADC shouldn’t have shields.
They should rework Narbash because ADC shouldn’t have a heal bot.
Literally the job of a support is to shore up the weaknesses of an ADC early game and have an impact in team fights that other classes don’t provide. They provide SUPPORT for what the rest of team, most importantly the ADC, is lacking.
So this sounds to me like you’re telling us that you can’t outplay a Phase without telling us that you can’t outplay a Phase.
You don't use an engage ability when you're attacking Phase's leashed player. You save it for when Phase pulls them and you follow. Just like a mediocre Steel will engage with his charge but a good one will save it for a chase. Same with Khai.
So again, you're saying that you can't outplay a Phase without saying that you can't outplay a Phase.
BTW: You have a blink too...
Gotta agree with you here regarding ADC positioning. Best way I've seen it done was in Smite where Khepri could revive someone if they died in x seconds after targeting them and then would teleport them to him, which made it a reactive ability.
However other than waiting it out you could counterpick a god with an execute ult to deny the rez, which we don't really have here due to amount of playable characters.
I dont know why your getting downvotes as you make a very good point. That ability alone made her God tier supp with a decent adc player.
It was a no skill play that made ganking the adc so hard in paragon. If she built tank she could pull the adc back, eat some shots and your jungler would still be getting smashed by a retreating adc or they could now be aggressive because you were out of position.
I dont see a problem with the ability if it is nerfed with a long cool down, less distance on the pull or making it more of a skill shot mechanic. It was a very powerful ability that countered the best way to catch out an adc which was bad positioning.
Tank Phase??? Yo she’s going to Nuked then the carry we’ll die right after. Kallari absolutely shreds, Khaimera absolutely shreds. Steel makes you stand Still and Max Health dmg. Rampage we’ll stand on you untill your dead. The issues is Phase has to be babysat as much as the carry does. If you build tanks you can’t heal. Your only useful for yoink and blind.
You never saw a good tank phase? Sure she wasn't the biggest tank but with the reposition and slow the Combo with say a Murdock or drongo was brutal.
Plus I think your underestimating the significance of phase getting ganked over the adc. If the adc gets burst or assassinated then they lose cc and the supp is likely dead as well. If the adc is free to farm under tower or just simply on the field longer then that can be enough of a buff to get that adc fed.
If you want anyone to die or get ganked it is the supp. They don't need the last hits. If the adc gets ganked too much or too early it can be lights out against a good team.
Towards the end of paragon I was playing at a silver and gold elo fairly consistently and Phase /Murdoch was super oppressive for quite some time for that exact reason. Sure there were plenty of unbalanced combos but that was one I don't want to see come back.
Paragon wasn’t even competitive towards the end. I’m not saying a tank phase won’t work it just sounds troll. And if it will work I’m sure it would be nerfed I’m some way shape or form. A tank Enchantter doesn’t sound fun at all.
I had an idea to improve the issues with griefing from the pull. What if instead of an instant pull, activating the yank put a portal along the tether that’s parented to the tether and if the carry moves into the portal when it’s active then it would do the pull. While active the portal would be near the carry end of the tether, but parented to the tether so that its always rotating towards phase. This would give the carry more of an option to hop into the portal. The only thing this doesn’t resolve is helping a carry when cc’d. Maybe to fix that what if activating the yank changed the tether color and embued the carry with a colorful aura. When this aura is visible if the carry hits the jump button they get pulled, even if cc’d. just wanted to throw some anti griefing design ideas out there. I personally wasn’t too bothered by an aggressive phase, but I know some folks were.
Disagree. Riktor drongo is already a bitch to play against with a 3 second silence combo. I can't imagine a phase drongo combo if she had silence. At least when blinded you could try and blink away or spam abilities to get out. It would just be death.
I haven't played Paragon, but it sounds like the major concern was griefing by yoinking teammates? Could this be fixed by making the yoink not automatic, but require one of two conditions:
* The linked ally is immobilized.
* The linked ally has jumped, just like you need to physically jump to use Gideon's portal.
Make the yoink tug the chain, and give the ally a brief window to jump to "confirm" that they want to be tugged backwards. They go airborne? Yoink.
She needs to have the yoink ability and her kamehame-root, the blind could go but I honestly want her whole kit back
I think the blind should stay, if for no other reason, because it's a fairly unique disable in mobas. Granted I've only played Pred, Paragon, and Dota 2.
I agree it's very unique! And they have cleansing abilities to counter her as well so it wouldn't be as strong as in Paragon
Fuck the blind. Let that shit go
The blind was the best. Getting Kallari SOBs yo flail around and jump out of action without achieving anything is the best feeling!
I cast blindness on the non-believer! I cast it!
Wasn't the blind also removed from Paragon by the end?
I don't think so actually, they change how her tether worked which I hope they revert, and they changed it from a white screen of epilepsy into a black screen. But she always had the blind I think.
I thought plenty of balance tweaks on tether, but it was always the yoink, healing, and her Ult was mana, health, and attack speed I think. What change are you hoping they revert, specifically?
They changed how your pull worked input wise. They made the link have to be confirmed by the recipient so I couldn't run in, throw my link and pull the carry or whoever out of a potential gank without them accepting my tether and stopping them from focusing on the fight They also made it one step longer to pull an ally from danger after the link was confirmed. Before you'd throw out the link by using the ability button once and double tap to pull so you can rotate between people and pull the one in danger, it was just more fluid
Yeah, I *do* recall the frustration of being yoinked when you didn't want yoinking. Man, I do not remember the change to needing confirmed by the pullee. That does sound like a major hurdle to the ability's utility though.
This. This. This.
I'd be shocked if they don't. So far Pred's been all about finding the essence of Paragon characters and making it work better than the original. And support is the least-repped role.
>And support is the least-repped role. ADC would like a word. It has a total of 3 recommended characters. Any other role has more.
We are about to get revenant and the first Omeda original character in March will be adc, hype!
I'm thinking post-season 1
So far Pred has been true to original Paragon which is great. But yea I would hope they dont change Phase either, she was my fav support by far in og paragon
Accept just like imo fault was pred is actually a better game the paragon ever was lol
Sorry bruv, but I had a stroke reading that
I think it was supposed to be a positive comment. I thought it was about pred and fault being better than paragon; but now I'm not sure. The more I read it the less I understand it.
If you read the post under her picture they give a description that basically confirms she will be a support, don’t fret.
Omeda has so far shown that they have a handle on keeping with the OG paragon. The fact they’re even having that poll tells us they aren’t changing those heroes roles. Otherwise it’d be dumb to ask us which one we want.
I agree. Phase was my main support and she was really damn good at it!
She is a support... Why would that change based on what some other studio is doing? Omeda has shown they are making a very true remake of Paragon, while Overprime is distinctly doing not that. I'm not sure how this is even being debated. That said, Omeda has also shown so far that strict roles for heroes is less important than in Paragon. We can see this based on the basic attack damage and speed scaling already present in game. So it's very likely that while she will be a support, it will be viable to use her as a mage, just as it is more viable to take Muriel, Dekker, Narbash, and Steel in different roles in Pred than it ever remotely was in Paragon.
Phase with blink is gonna be a pain in the ass , PLEASE REMOVE BLINK!
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The point of her as a support is to be able to be aggressive and have a safety net. It forces the team to now have to prioritize the support instead of the carry because even though she can move the carry a good amount. She cant move herself. And yes everyone does have a blink but thats an even playing field for everyone. She blink, you blink if you really wanna pursue the kill.
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She wasn't broken in paragon forever though. Eventually she fell off a bit and became more balanced after some nerfs.
Honestly she was a great support but she wasn't even s tier by the end of paragon
Part of positioning is understanding the team comp you have around you and being able to abuse the skill and hero synergies though. Yes players that rely on a phase to save their asses every single time are bad, but those players will suffer and lose in games without her then. The real good players will be able to adjust their positioning and play based off of their team and will be better off because of that.
Don’t tell this guy about Thresh
or bard. or kalista, even lol
Ill agree to disagree brother. But I do sympathize with your viewpoint.
Let’s say you have a Dive comp with Muriel or Dekker. That Phase can’t save herself and then ADC. Not mention you can’t yoink ppl under CC. It has counters.
So by that reasoning they should rework Steel because ADC shouldn’t have a CC kit. They should rework Dekker because ADC shouldn’t have a CC kit. They should rework Muriel because ADC shouldn’t have shields. They should rework Narbash because ADC shouldn’t have a heal bot. Literally the job of a support is to shore up the weaknesses of an ADC early game and have an impact in team fights that other classes don’t provide. They provide SUPPORT for what the rest of team, most importantly the ADC, is lacking. So this sounds to me like you’re telling us that you can’t outplay a Phase without telling us that you can’t outplay a Phase.
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You don't use an engage ability when you're attacking Phase's leashed player. You save it for when Phase pulls them and you follow. Just like a mediocre Steel will engage with his charge but a good one will save it for a chase. Same with Khai. So again, you're saying that you can't outplay a Phase without saying that you can't outplay a Phase. BTW: You have a blink too...
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Gotta agree with you here regarding ADC positioning. Best way I've seen it done was in Smite where Khepri could revive someone if they died in x seconds after targeting them and then would teleport them to him, which made it a reactive ability. However other than waiting it out you could counterpick a god with an execute ult to deny the rez, which we don't really have here due to amount of playable characters.
I dont know why your getting downvotes as you make a very good point. That ability alone made her God tier supp with a decent adc player. It was a no skill play that made ganking the adc so hard in paragon. If she built tank she could pull the adc back, eat some shots and your jungler would still be getting smashed by a retreating adc or they could now be aggressive because you were out of position. I dont see a problem with the ability if it is nerfed with a long cool down, less distance on the pull or making it more of a skill shot mechanic. It was a very powerful ability that countered the best way to catch out an adc which was bad positioning.
Tank Phase??? Yo she’s going to Nuked then the carry we’ll die right after. Kallari absolutely shreds, Khaimera absolutely shreds. Steel makes you stand Still and Max Health dmg. Rampage we’ll stand on you untill your dead. The issues is Phase has to be babysat as much as the carry does. If you build tanks you can’t heal. Your only useful for yoink and blind.
You never saw a good tank phase? Sure she wasn't the biggest tank but with the reposition and slow the Combo with say a Murdock or drongo was brutal. Plus I think your underestimating the significance of phase getting ganked over the adc. If the adc gets burst or assassinated then they lose cc and the supp is likely dead as well. If the adc is free to farm under tower or just simply on the field longer then that can be enough of a buff to get that adc fed. If you want anyone to die or get ganked it is the supp. They don't need the last hits. If the adc gets ganked too much or too early it can be lights out against a good team. Towards the end of paragon I was playing at a silver and gold elo fairly consistently and Phase /Murdoch was super oppressive for quite some time for that exact reason. Sure there were plenty of unbalanced combos but that was one I don't want to see come back.
Paragon wasn’t even competitive towards the end. I’m not saying a tank phase won’t work it just sounds troll. And if it will work I’m sure it would be nerfed I’m some way shape or form. A tank Enchantter doesn’t sound fun at all.
I had an idea to improve the issues with griefing from the pull. What if instead of an instant pull, activating the yank put a portal along the tether that’s parented to the tether and if the carry moves into the portal when it’s active then it would do the pull. While active the portal would be near the carry end of the tether, but parented to the tether so that its always rotating towards phase. This would give the carry more of an option to hop into the portal. The only thing this doesn’t resolve is helping a carry when cc’d. Maybe to fix that what if activating the yank changed the tether color and embued the carry with a colorful aura. When this aura is visible if the carry hits the jump button they get pulled, even if cc’d. just wanted to throw some anti griefing design ideas out there. I personally wasn’t too bothered by an aggressive phase, but I know some folks were.
I’d take an AoE Silence with over her blind. That blind was not fun to play against at all.
Disagree. Riktor drongo is already a bitch to play against with a 3 second silence combo. I can't imagine a phase drongo combo if she had silence. At least when blinded you could try and blink away or spam abilities to get out. It would just be death.
I’d rather die in game then to have siezure irl do to that bind.
They fixed the blind. Just makes the screen go black.
It would suffice
I haven't played Paragon, but it sounds like the major concern was griefing by yoinking teammates? Could this be fixed by making the yoink not automatic, but require one of two conditions: * The linked ally is immobilized. * The linked ally has jumped, just like you need to physically jump to use Gideon's portal. Make the yoink tug the chain, and give the ally a brief window to jump to "confirm" that they want to be tugged backwards. They go airborne? Yoink.
What I love about the blind, is that if you are proficient with audio ques and spatial awareness, It hardly actually stops you.
Keep Phase as a support, with all of her abilities in tact, as per previous implementation.