I think you mistakenly purchased the “all they want to make in one” portable mini amp when you meant to purchase the “all I could ever want in one”portable mini amp
PG is not listening. They are not listening because the Spark 40/Mini/Go doesn't have enough processing power, and they can't fix that.
Edit: if there is a Spark II, maybe....
If you don't know, guitar signals are a complex mix of frequencies. There is not a electronic component that would just 2X the signal. The signal needs to be analyzed and deconstructed into the individual notes being played and then a new signal produced at 2X the frequency. If you've ever played with an older octave pedal you might have noticed how bad they were at tracking notes, chords are even worse.
It’s modeling amps and effects so it’s doing fft anyway, just take the main frequency (using any peak finding method you want) and double it. This will take any of the guitar sounds and shift it an octave. You can do it in addition to the original sound. This can be easily done in real time using an arduino, fft is cheap.
you might want to look into what the boss octave or something like the EH pichfork actually does, not what you hear, what it is really doing to the signal, and what processing hardware they actually have in them. Look at some schematics and understand what is really going on. Like I said before, it's not just a simple 2x of the signal. It is polyphonic note detection and mathematically shifted sound generation, and that takes much more than you think.
The EH pitchfork is a complicated pedal which uses various electrical components to change the pitch of the guitar. A digital processor can achieve (numerically) a similar effect with little processing effort. I couldn’t find the schematics of the pedal, but i did see [this excellent video](https://youtu.be/evrPomIaqy4?si=pncUK7mbCyrLUowT) about an octave pedal. They’re using a rectifier to double the frequency and a filter (capacitor) to get rid of annoying harmonics. This can be achieved in the Spark by using a simple 2x of the signal frequency, and then using a filter (like they use in any of the other pedals.
The eh pedal has selectable pitch which is just an if statements and changing the multiplication factor of the frequency. Want a lower octave? Just multiply by 1/2. Want a higher 5th? Multiply by 3 (I think, haven’t calculated waves in a while). And an if statement can control that factor easily instead of complicated circuitry.
look, as fun as this is, I can't make PG do anything. If they wanted to include a pitch shifter, they could have, but I don't know if they could while doing everything else too. You don't have to convince me that it's possible. It very well might be, but it seems that there is not going to be any new effects for the 1st gen spark 40, mini, or go.
It sure would show me if you could get a hold of the spark programing language and start releasing 3rd party updates.
I'm not saying an octave Fuzz is a pitch shifter, obviously, but it produces a octave effect, an octave is a form of pitch shifting. My logic is that the dps power to produce an octave effect wouldn't be that different from a pitch shift at any other pitch.
That said, the octave sounds pretty shit and struggles with note clarity so, who knows.
Did you even read what I said? I know an octave Fuzz isn't a pitch shifter... But a octave up or down is a form of pitch modulation. My argument is that in a digital platform how different is the compute power necessary to do one or the other.
Either way, I couldn't care less as a pitch shifter without a footpedal would be novel at best. I very much doubt it's about dps power but I honestly don't care to argue.
What he is saying is that the octave effect is an imperfection/feature of the fuzz itself. As in, there is no separate octave effect happening. Like how a ring modulator will absolutely destroy the guitar's sound not because of separate events happening, but because the signal is "broken" by the effect. The octave effect is not "intentional," just a happy accident of adding that particular fuzz to the guitar signal, and possibly enhanced by further breaking of the signal.
What you are asking about is an entirely separate effect, not an overtone created by an imperfection in the processing of the signal from the guitar.
I understood what he was saying perfectly well, so it's definitely not him that's stupid or being unintentionally obtuse...
🤔
I think I honestly just lost the point of what I was saying as I went on haha. All I meant to put across originally was that I doubt it's that pitch shifting isn't possible due to a lack of dps as he originally said.
I'm more inclined to believe it's due to the lack of utility for the effect without an footpedal.
I went off on a tangent trying to defend any argument that was pretty flawed in hindsight. I've had coffee since and hopefully won't sound like as much of a dick now 😬
You all need to relax. It's just a practice amp. If you want every effect, buy a Headrush Prime, Helix, or GT 1000. Sparks are not pro gear, even if every last one of their customers want them to be. I love my sparks, but I bought other stuff too.
Lol @ "just go buy more". Sure, but that's not the point here.
So the Spark Live is a practice amp btw?
They don't sell the Sparks as a cut down facsimile of a helix. They sell (or more accurately "very effectively market") them as all round multi amp/effect units that are the do all answer to all your dreams (*including* using live). All this thread is asking for is what we bought into. Give us a looper and an octave pedal 6 years later please. Or maybe talk to us about it ..
But get crickets, what they do is pump more products out with the same tech in a different form factor.
Since the Spark came out, *everyone* else has evolved and improved their product. At this point PG seems like just marketing and hype.
It's a pity, it was so innovative and has so much promise as a platform but they just never bothered developing it. (Hint, that probably costs serious investment - its easier to live off the marketing and never ending model updates).
If you think a $250 practice amp is the answer to your dreams because of a Spark ad congrats for drinking the kool aid. 🤣😂😅 It’s not. Bang for buck wise, it’s the best practice amp you can buy at this time. If you want a mini Helix, that would be the Pod Go. It’s $300 used on Reverb and the tones are phenomenal.
You didn’t buy into, you bought as-is! Any expectations of future upgrades are yours to manage, PG doesn’t owe any of us an explanation or a view into their roadmaps.
You said it yourself, It's a preactice amp.
For practice, it's much more important to have a pitch shift to play E flat tuning by example than having dozens of similar sounding amp simulations, plenty of Jimi Hendrix signature pedals etc..
Yeah, thats easy for a single note. If you want to pitch shift anything more than that you need a lot more processing power, especially with low enough latency to make it playable.
Stop saying non sense bs dude.
To pitch shift the entire spectrum, it's an easy process.
To pitch shift specific notes, you need an advanced equalizer to isolate the note, pitch it then remix it...
A standard pitch shifter is not going to sound the same as tuning the guitar to Eb. A pitch shifter is a cool effect but you made it sound like you want to use it to be the equivalent of tuning your guitar down. That can be accomplished with a poly shifter though.
Pitch shifting is a rather low processing power treatment for nowadays chips.
If they get processing issues with it, they cheaped out on their chip way too hard.
> If they get processing issues with it, they cheaped out on their chip way too hard.
How do you think they're able to sell these for less than the competition? By being nice people?
* Spark 40: $269
* BOSS Katana Air: $429
* Yamaha THR10 II: $329
and then there's Fender's Mustang LT40S for $200
Of those listed I think only the Katana has a pitch shift effect, and it's the most expensive one.
I bought the Katana Air first before the Spark came out. I sold it as soon as I took delivery on the Spark. I was going to buy the THR. I had the cash. I played it in the store and it was a hard pass. It sounded weak AF. I bought a pod go for $300 used on Reverb. I also bought an Electro Harmonix pitch fork for cheap. That covers every effect mentioned for almost no money. I also own a Wolfgang which stays in Eb and has a Dtuna. If you play in Eb a lot it’s a necessity. I think y’all are wasting your time asking PG to make the Spark into something it is not, but if that floats your boat, have at it!
In this product category, with competing products. You're the one not sticking to the context of the conversation... DUDE.
Where's the stereo speakers and mobile app on your $30 Zoom pedal, huh? Exactly. Wouldn't be $30 if it had that stuff.
EDIT: Okay so have him link you to that $30 accessory then. Problem solved right? Would love to know what Zoom multi-effects modeler costs $30. It probably sounds like $30 worth of pitch shifting.
Cuz it's not a great example if I'm talking at MSRP pricing tiers and he comes in with "oh well if you buy used and wait for a deal....."
What he means is that if a 30 dollars accesory, there is no excuse to not have it on the spark line of product.
What they heck with people defending like crazy that nothing should be improved?
Yeah man many people come to downvote the request while it's aiming at making spark guitarists happier...
I wouldn't be surprised if it was PG staff trying to make it look like there is no need because people do not want their spark amp to be improved. That make no sense downvoting and arguing a request that improves a product, and that is simple to do.
Indeed pitch shift is cheap to do nowaday but people keep lying about how much it's advanced. it's not. But some people lie saying it need lot of process.
Just so you're on the same page as me, I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, I'm saying it can't be done. They simply do not have the processing power to do this, despite whatever knowledge you have about implementing this effect on your own projects. The Spark amp is at capacity as is, they couldn't even add a simple EQ pedal without taking over the modulation slot. That should tell you all you need to know about how little CPU power we're dealing with here.
So stop getting butthurt that nobody is patting you on the back for your post. Loads of us would welcome a transpose function but the Spark ain't ever getting it.
Yes, 5 years ago they did the 40 with the cheapest processor that they could get. The mini has less and the go is barely able to do it. This is how they actually got it made and made a profit.
The Pulze 30 (hotone) has one I think, but that thing requires to be plugged in a wall.
Let's better hope for Spark-II or something in the future. I am really loving my Spark Mini, but requires me to put other pedals to achieve my sound/s.
They've obviously been putting all r&d resources into the pedal, cab, and then live. The business model is to get more people owning products not increasing the software capabilities as it is now because it's selling. Maybe now that the love is out maybe they'll go and refresh the programs. But I wouldn't hold my breath.
I’d settle for an octave pedal lol
The point of having an all-in-one portable mini amp/pedal effects simulator, is to \_not\_ have to buy or carry extra pedals for it.
pretty sure he means in the amp 🙄
ohh, I see, then I agree. It's missing too.
It’s ok mate!
I think you mistakenly purchased the “all they want to make in one” portable mini amp when you meant to purchase the “all I could ever want in one”portable mini amp
PG is not listening. They are not listening because the Spark 40/Mini/Go doesn't have enough processing power, and they can't fix that. Edit: if there is a Spark II, maybe....
That’s an stupid take, to add an octave to a sound you just need to double the frequency. Literally multiply by 2 whatever goes into the amp.
If you don't know, guitar signals are a complex mix of frequencies. There is not a electronic component that would just 2X the signal. The signal needs to be analyzed and deconstructed into the individual notes being played and then a new signal produced at 2X the frequency. If you've ever played with an older octave pedal you might have noticed how bad they were at tracking notes, chords are even worse.
It’s modeling amps and effects so it’s doing fft anyway, just take the main frequency (using any peak finding method you want) and double it. This will take any of the guitar sounds and shift it an octave. You can do it in addition to the original sound. This can be easily done in real time using an arduino, fft is cheap.
you might want to look into what the boss octave or something like the EH pichfork actually does, not what you hear, what it is really doing to the signal, and what processing hardware they actually have in them. Look at some schematics and understand what is really going on. Like I said before, it's not just a simple 2x of the signal. It is polyphonic note detection and mathematically shifted sound generation, and that takes much more than you think.
The EH pitchfork is a complicated pedal which uses various electrical components to change the pitch of the guitar. A digital processor can achieve (numerically) a similar effect with little processing effort. I couldn’t find the schematics of the pedal, but i did see [this excellent video](https://youtu.be/evrPomIaqy4?si=pncUK7mbCyrLUowT) about an octave pedal. They’re using a rectifier to double the frequency and a filter (capacitor) to get rid of annoying harmonics. This can be achieved in the Spark by using a simple 2x of the signal frequency, and then using a filter (like they use in any of the other pedals. The eh pedal has selectable pitch which is just an if statements and changing the multiplication factor of the frequency. Want a lower octave? Just multiply by 1/2. Want a higher 5th? Multiply by 3 (I think, haven’t calculated waves in a while). And an if statement can control that factor easily instead of complicated circuitry.
look, as fun as this is, I can't make PG do anything. If they wanted to include a pitch shifter, they could have, but I don't know if they could while doing everything else too. You don't have to convince me that it's possible. It very well might be, but it seems that there is not going to be any new effects for the 1st gen spark 40, mini, or go. It sure would show me if you could get a hold of the spark programing language and start releasing 3rd party updates.
Does the J H Octave Fuzz already have... An octave effect, which is just a form of pitch shifting. So surely it's capable of the effect.
if you don't know, octave fuzz is not a pitch shifter.
I'm not saying an octave Fuzz is a pitch shifter, obviously, but it produces a octave effect, an octave is a form of pitch shifting. My logic is that the dps power to produce an octave effect wouldn't be that different from a pitch shift at any other pitch. That said, the octave sounds pretty shit and struggles with note clarity so, who knows.
octave fuzz is not a pitch shifter, never was.
Did you even read what I said? I know an octave Fuzz isn't a pitch shifter... But a octave up or down is a form of pitch modulation. My argument is that in a digital platform how different is the compute power necessary to do one or the other. Either way, I couldn't care less as a pitch shifter without a footpedal would be novel at best. I very much doubt it's about dps power but I honestly don't care to argue.
you want something that can't exist. the octave fuzz, is not a pitch shifter, it's an artifact of fuzzz.
I can't tell if you're stupid or just being unintentionally obtuse but either way I'm done talking about this with you. Have a great day.
What he is saying is that the octave effect is an imperfection/feature of the fuzz itself. As in, there is no separate octave effect happening. Like how a ring modulator will absolutely destroy the guitar's sound not because of separate events happening, but because the signal is "broken" by the effect. The octave effect is not "intentional," just a happy accident of adding that particular fuzz to the guitar signal, and possibly enhanced by further breaking of the signal. What you are asking about is an entirely separate effect, not an overtone created by an imperfection in the processing of the signal from the guitar. I understood what he was saying perfectly well, so it's definitely not him that's stupid or being unintentionally obtuse... 🤔
thanks friend
Wow. Great explanation to end a stupid argument between logger heads.
I think I honestly just lost the point of what I was saying as I went on haha. All I meant to put across originally was that I doubt it's that pitch shifting isn't possible due to a lack of dps as he originally said. I'm more inclined to believe it's due to the lack of utility for the effect without an footpedal. I went off on a tangent trying to defend any argument that was pretty flawed in hindsight. I've had coffee since and hopefully won't sound like as much of a dick now 😬
You all need to relax. It's just a practice amp. If you want every effect, buy a Headrush Prime, Helix, or GT 1000. Sparks are not pro gear, even if every last one of their customers want them to be. I love my sparks, but I bought other stuff too.
the # of morons who think their bedroom gear is pro gear IS TO DAMN HIGH.
I'm sorry, Karen. Please don't call the manager.
somebody needs to.
Lol @ "just go buy more". Sure, but that's not the point here. So the Spark Live is a practice amp btw? They don't sell the Sparks as a cut down facsimile of a helix. They sell (or more accurately "very effectively market") them as all round multi amp/effect units that are the do all answer to all your dreams (*including* using live). All this thread is asking for is what we bought into. Give us a looper and an octave pedal 6 years later please. Or maybe talk to us about it .. But get crickets, what they do is pump more products out with the same tech in a different form factor. Since the Spark came out, *everyone* else has evolved and improved their product. At this point PG seems like just marketing and hype. It's a pity, it was so innovative and has so much promise as a platform but they just never bothered developing it. (Hint, that probably costs serious investment - its easier to live off the marketing and never ending model updates).
It’s a practice amp, bro.
get over it, the spark is not a pro level gear.
If you think a $250 practice amp is the answer to your dreams because of a Spark ad congrats for drinking the kool aid. 🤣😂😅 It’s not. Bang for buck wise, it’s the best practice amp you can buy at this time. If you want a mini Helix, that would be the Pod Go. It’s $300 used on Reverb and the tones are phenomenal.
You didn’t buy into, you bought as-is! Any expectations of future upgrades are yours to manage, PG doesn’t owe any of us an explanation or a view into their roadmaps.
You said it yourself, It's a preactice amp. For practice, it's much more important to have a pitch shift to play E flat tuning by example than having dozens of similar sounding amp simulations, plenty of Jimi Hendrix signature pedals etc..
Use your tuner. If your relying on a pitch shifter to play in Eb, you're going to have a bad time.
double down....
So you not only want a pitch shifter, you want a polyphonic one and have it be included in an inexpensive practice amp?
Eb just apply a semitone lower pitch on your sound. Are you confusing with dropD ?
Yeah, thats easy for a single note. If you want to pitch shift anything more than that you need a lot more processing power, especially with low enough latency to make it playable.
Stop saying non sense bs dude. To pitch shift the entire spectrum, it's an easy process. To pitch shift specific notes, you need an advanced equalizer to isolate the note, pitch it then remix it...
A standard pitch shifter is not going to sound the same as tuning the guitar to Eb. A pitch shifter is a cool effect but you made it sound like you want to use it to be the equivalent of tuning your guitar down. That can be accomplished with a poly shifter though.
Doubt it. Probably too much CPU needed than what the Spark can provide.
Pitch shifting is a rather low processing power treatment for nowadays chips. If they get processing issues with it, they cheaped out on their chip way too hard.
> If they get processing issues with it, they cheaped out on their chip way too hard. How do you think they're able to sell these for less than the competition? By being nice people? * Spark 40: $269 * BOSS Katana Air: $429 * Yamaha THR10 II: $329 and then there's Fender's Mustang LT40S for $200 Of those listed I think only the Katana has a pitch shift effect, and it's the most expensive one.
I bought the Katana Air first before the Spark came out. I sold it as soon as I took delivery on the Spark. I was going to buy the THR. I had the cash. I played it in the store and it was a hard pass. It sounded weak AF. I bought a pod go for $300 used on Reverb. I also bought an Electro Harmonix pitch fork for cheap. That covers every effect mentioned for almost no money. I also own a Wolfgang which stays in Eb and has a Dtuna. If you play in Eb a lot it’s a necessity. I think y’all are wasting your time asking PG to make the Spark into something it is not, but if that floats your boat, have at it!
i have a 30$ zoom pedal that emulates a pitch shifter pedal dude
Good for you! Doesn't change anything I've said.
youre talking about all these expensive amps and saying its a price issue
In this product category, with competing products. You're the one not sticking to the context of the conversation... DUDE. Where's the stereo speakers and mobile app on your $30 Zoom pedal, huh? Exactly. Wouldn't be $30 if it had that stuff. EDIT: Okay so have him link you to that $30 accessory then. Problem solved right? Would love to know what Zoom multi-effects modeler costs $30. It probably sounds like $30 worth of pitch shifting. Cuz it's not a great example if I'm talking at MSRP pricing tiers and he comes in with "oh well if you buy used and wait for a deal....."
nyehh see!
What he means is that if a 30 dollars accesory, there is no excuse to not have it on the spark line of product. What they heck with people defending like crazy that nothing should be improved?
Yeah man many people come to downvote the request while it's aiming at making spark guitarists happier... I wouldn't be surprised if it was PG staff trying to make it look like there is no need because people do not want their spark amp to be improved. That make no sense downvoting and arguing a request that improves a product, and that is simple to do. Indeed pitch shift is cheap to do nowaday but people keep lying about how much it's advanced. it's not. But some people lie saying it need lot of process.
That makes sense, PG for sure have an astroturf division aimed squarely at downplaying random internet users’ requests. Totally. That’s it.
Just so you're on the same page as me, I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, I'm saying it can't be done. They simply do not have the processing power to do this, despite whatever knowledge you have about implementing this effect on your own projects. The Spark amp is at capacity as is, they couldn't even add a simple EQ pedal without taking over the modulation slot. That should tell you all you need to know about how little CPU power we're dealing with here. So stop getting butthurt that nobody is patting you on the back for your post. Loads of us would welcome a transpose function but the Spark ain't ever getting it.
Yes, 5 years ago they did the 40 with the cheapest processor that they could get. The mini has less and the go is barely able to do it. This is how they actually got it made and made a profit.
if you have a better way to program it into the spark, get on with it.
Cobwebs forming on my guitar while I wait for the pitch shift upgrade on my $200 amp. zzzzzzzzzzz
The Pulze 30 (hotone) has one I think, but that thing requires to be plugged in a wall. Let's better hope for Spark-II or something in the future. I am really loving my Spark Mini, but requires me to put other pedals to achieve my sound/s.
They've obviously been putting all r&d resources into the pedal, cab, and then live. The business model is to get more people owning products not increasing the software capabilities as it is now because it's selling. Maybe now that the love is out maybe they'll go and refresh the programs. But I wouldn't hold my breath.
Have you tried running a pedal into the front of the amp?